Cutting oil or coolant for drill press

[Ignoramus10622]

A company gave me this drill press.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Allen-Drill-Press.jpg

I will actually use it instead of scrapping, and my question is, is it
better to use soluble coolant, or cutting oil on it.

thanks

[Howard Beel]

"Ignoramus10622" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10622.invalid> wrote in message
news:ToednbLLTIPS1V3E...@giganews.com...

Your question is filled with variables.

Material to be drilled?
Drill RPM?
Feed rate?
Do you want to cool the drill or lubricate it?

Best Regards
Tom.


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[Joseph Gwinn]

On Sep 18, 2017, Ignoramus10622 wrote
(in article<ToednbLLTIPS1V3E...@giganews.com>):

It isn’t that critical, unless you are cutting something like stainless
steel (use heavy cutting oil like Mobilmet). I use Rustlick WS-5050 soluble
oil for just about everything. Use a fairly concentrated solution to prevent
undue rusting and staining of iron surfaces.

Joe

[Ignoramus10622]

On 2017-09-18, Howard Beel <h...@network.com> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus10622" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10622.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ToednbLLTIPS1V3E...@giganews.com...
>>A company gave me this drill press.
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Allen-Drill-Press.jpg
>>
>> I will actually use it instead of scrapping, and my question is, is it
>> better to use soluble coolant, or cutting oil on it.
>>
>> thanks
>
> Your question is filled with variables.
>
> Material to be drilled?
> Drill RPM?
> Feed rate?
> Do you want to cool the drill or lubricate it?

Tom, honestly I do not know, it will be a shop drill press for
everything. We do not manufacture anything (though I have an idea to
make phase converters). Mostly it will be used for regular steel.

[Howard Beel]

"Ignoramus10622" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10622.invalid> wrote in message

news:_6ednSbCarQd5V3E...@giganews.com...

OK, i would go with oil. That what i use, don't have to worry about
rusting or staining of parts.

[Gunner Asch]

Im a big big fan of oils..but if you can use soluble and keep the
concentrations correct..it works well also.

If you let it thin out...it will take off all the paint and rust it
into a boat anchor.



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[Ignoramus10622]

thanks, i will get cutting oil

[Larry Jaques]

Then use cutting oil from a precision oiler.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

[Bob La Londe]

It really depends on what you will use it for and how often. I use my drill
presses every day, but I still don't feel its often enough to setup a
coolant system on them. A few holes, a few threads, next... I've found
that unless I am doing heavy drilling a single drop of Tap Magic is enough
to lubricate my cuts. A pint bottle by the drill press area lasts a very
long time. Even given that its hard to get just one drop. If I am doing
heavy drilling I use a heavier oil, but still only a few drops at a time
unless it’s a hole down inside a blind cavity so that I can contain a little
more oil. On the other hand... I'm not a real machinist. Probably 50% of
what I know I learned from the guys in this group.

Something to think about though. One of the old members of this groups uses
the same soluble coolant for just about everything. Turning, milling,
drilling, etc. But on the lathe and the drill press he dips a cup out of
the tank on the mill and applies it with a brush.

[Bob La Londe]

Nice drill station. I keep looking at those. It would sure be nice to have
one of those with about 5 heads in the shop somedays.

[Jon Elson]

For general purpose drilling of a few small holes in typical materials,
brushing on a little cutting oil each hole makes the least mess.

For really serious drilling of large holes in tough materials, then flood
coolant will make sense. So, it totally depends on what you will use it
for.

Jon

[Hul Tytus]

Joe - water mixed with 1 part Borax, ie Mule Team from the local grocery,
to 100 parts water eliminated rust on several occasions. Now, the 100 to 1
is by weight but that's one misty memory. A test with a 1000 to 1 solution
showed rust.

Hul

Joseph Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Sep 18, 2017, Ignoramus10622 wrote
> (in article<ToednbLLTIPS1V3E...@giganews.com>):

> > A company gave me this drill press.
> >
> >
> > <http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Allen-Drill-Press.jpg>
> >
> > I will actually use it instead of scrapping, and my question is, is it
> > better to use soluble coolant, or cutting oil on it.

> It isn?t that critical, unless you are cutting something like stainless

[Joseph Gwinn]

On Sep 19, 2017, Hul Tytus wrote
(in article <ops3j8$p7d$1...@reader2.panix.com>):

> Joe - water mixed with 1 part Borax, ie Mule Team from the local grocery,
> to 100 parts water eliminated rust on several occasions. Now, the 100 to 1
> is by weight but that's one misty memory. A test with a 1000 to 1 solution
> showed rust.

That is a traditional recipe. I’m pretty sure that WS-5050 does the same
thing. Their instructions are pretty clear about the needed concentration,
and that simply topping off with water as the water evaporates from the mix
won’t maintain full performance. I just replace the entire reservoir full
from time to time.

Iggy decided to go to oil, which is very reliable. I don’t use circulating
oil to keep the mess down.

Joe

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2017-09-18, Ignoramus10622 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10622.invalid> wrote:
> A company gave me this drill press.
>
> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Allen-Drill-Press.jpg

Wow! How much does that thing weigh? Looks like a minimum of
5000 lbs. I doubt that I have the power to spin up one of those three
motors. :-)

> I will actually use it instead of scrapping, and my question is, is it
> better to use soluble coolant, or cutting oil on it.
>
> thanks

Hmm ... the table has the gutter to feed to a tank and pump. I
see why you wanted to know. I think that the soluble coolant would be
better -- especially one with the anti-fungus additives to keep it from
turning into a nasty smell source -- and possible source of infections.

But take the advice of others not me. I'm not experienced in
using a machine of that scale.

I am interested to know whether the two jackscrews under the
table are geared together (chain drive, perhaps?) or can they be
adjusted separately to tilt the table for some weird project needs.

I presume that there is a lubrication pump, too, and that ofn
course wants the proper oil (likely listed on the reservoir.)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Ignoramus31910]

On 2017-09-20, DoN. Nichols <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> On 2017-09-18, Ignoramus10622 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10622.invalid> wrote:
>> A company gave me this drill press.
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Allen-Drill-Press.jpg
>
> Wow! How much does that thing weigh? Looks like a minimum of
> 5000 lbs. I doubt that I have the power to spin up one of those three
> motors. :-)

I think that it is perhaps 4000

>> I will actually use it instead of scrapping, and my question is, is it
>> better to use soluble coolant, or cutting oil on it.
>>

S>> thanks

>
> Hmm ... the table has the gutter to feed to a tank and pump. I
> see why you wanted to know. I think that the soluble coolant would be
> better -- especially one with the anti-fungus additives to keep it from
> turning into a nasty smell source -- and possible source of infections.

I have Hangsterfer S500 in my CNC mill, it does not smell bad, but I
have some issues such as a film of oily snot at the top of the liquid.

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2017-09-22, Ignoramus31910 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.31910.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-09-20, DoN. Nichols <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>> On 2017-09-18, Ignoramus10622 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10622.invalid> wrote:
>>> A company gave me this drill press.
>>>
>>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Allen-Drill-Press.jpg
>>
>> Wow! How much does that thing weigh? Looks like a minimum of
>> 5000 lbs. I doubt that I have the power to spin up one of those three
>> motors. :-)
>
> I think that it is perhaps 4000

O.K. Still pretty impressive.

>>> I will actually use it instead of scrapping, and my question is, is it
>>> better to use soluble coolant, or cutting oil on it.
>>>
> S>> thanks
>>
>> Hmm ... the table has the gutter to feed to a tank and pump. I
>> see why you wanted to know. I think that the soluble coolant would be
>> better -- especially one with the anti-fungus additives to keep it from
>> turning into a nasty smell source -- and possible source of infections.
>
> I have Hangsterfer S500 in my CNC mill, it does not smell bad, but I
> have some issues such as a film of oily snot at the top of the liquid.

O.K. There are devices advertised in MSC and elsewhere called
"Tramp oil skimmers" which may help with this. Not too expensive,
compared to the machines themselves.

[Tom Gardner]

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>
For your needs, used motor oil will be perfect!

[Jim Wilkins]

"Tom Gardner" <ma...@tacks.com> wrote in message
news:oq7j8o$1ple$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/topics/oil.htm

Used motor oil may contain heavy metals like lead from the bearing
shells and combustion byproducts suspected of causing cancer.
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=13&po=11
"It is difficult to ascribe observed health effects in epidemiological
studies to specific PAHs because most exposures are to PAH mixtures."

[Ed Huntress]

I think that Tom was being his funny/facetious self. d8-)

I'm wondering what Iggy is going to drill with a heavy-duty,
three-head production drilling machine.

Is he going into competition with Caterpillar?

--
Ed Huntress
>

[Ignoramus4881]

Tom has a great sense of humor. I am windering if I can just use
hydraulic oil for cutting. I have large quantities of it and even burn
it for winter.

[Ed Huntress]

If you're asking me, I have no clue. And if you called a hydraulic oil
company and talked to their top engineer, I'm reasonably sure they
would have no clue, either.

If you want to talk about what properties you want in a cutting oil or
other cutting fluid, I can offer the basics. But it's a tedious
subject and I'm not going off on it unless you want to get into it.

--
Ed Huntress

[dca...@krl.org]

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 8:06:56 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus4881 wrote:




> >
>
> Tom has a great sense of humor. I am windering if I can just use
> hydraulic oil for cutting. I have large quantities of it and even burn
> it for winter.

Any thing is better than nothing. Your hydraulic oil is not going to be the best possible, but will probably be about 90 % of the best possible oil/coolant.

Dan

[et...@whidbey.com]

Actually Dan, hydraulic oil makes lousy cutting oil, not even close to
being 90% as good as the best possible cutting oils or coolants.
Lubricating oils in general make lousy cutting oils. In fact, when
using water soluble cutting oils in machine tools the lubricating oils
used in those machine tools for the ways and ballscrews contaminate
the coolant and cause it to be much less effective in preventing
cutting tool wear as well as proper chip formation. This is the main
reason why I use oil skimmers to remove tramp oils from the coolant
used in my machine tools.
Eric

[dca...@krl.org]

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 11:54:32 AM UTC-4, et...@whidbey.com wrote:

>Any thing is better than nothing. Your hydraulic oil is not going to be the best possible, but will probably be about 90 % of the best possible oil/coolant.
> >
> > Dan
> Actually Dan, hydraulic oil makes lousy cutting oil, not even close to
> being 90% as good as the best possible cutting oils or coolants.
>

> Eric

Thanks for the correction. For years I have used what ever is handy including ATF. And believed it was much better than nothing.

Dan

[et...@whidbey.com]

Maybe better than nothing, but certainly not as near as good as
cutting oil. Have you tried bacon fat? Even bacon fat is better than
motor oil. Seriously.
Eric

[Ed Huntress]

With all of the stearin in it, it won't wick by capillary action. When
you take the stearin out you're left with lard oil -- which has a
decent set of properties (and a very long history) as a cutting oil.

--
Ed Huntress

[et...@whidbey.com]

Bacon fat wicks OK when the metal is good and hot. BTW, how is the
stearin removed? I have always wanted to make lard oil.
Eric

[Ed Huntress]

The traditional process is to heat lard to some specified temperature
(or color); then refrigerating it to around 30 deg. F for several
days, allowing the stearin to crystallize and separate from the oil,
and then squeezing it through a fabric filter under some modest
pressure to filter the stearin crystals from the oil.

Modern industrial processes started by 1850 to improve the efficiency
of this separation. I have no idea what they are. The demand for lard
oil originally was for lamp oil, to replace whale oil and sperm oil.

It has good wicking ability, high-pressure resistance, and about the
right amount of lubricity (you don't want too much, or tools will
skate) for cutting oil. It was sulfated from fairly early times to
improve its high pressure resistance.

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:76ilsc5ir1ip0a45p...@4ax.com...

This doesn't answer your question but it's a good, concise explanation
of the chemistry of fats and oils.
http://www.chemistryexplained.com/Di-Fa/Fats-and-Fatty-Acids.html
The strange traditional names indicate their sources, for instance
'capr..' refers to a goat.
-jsw

[Ignoramus14609]

Thanks... Maybe, use light weight hydraulic oil and throw in some
sulphur also.

i

[Gunner Asch]

Excellent post!!!


---

[Gunner Asch]

It is better than nothing...in moderation.


---

[et...@whidbey.com]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:07:34 -0400, Ed Huntress

I think I'll try the old method Ed. I have been wanting to get some
lear lard from the butcher and render it myself for holiday cooking
this year. Might as well get some lard oil for the shop too. Years ago
I used an aluminum tapping fluid that was mostly lard oil and
deodorized kerosene. It also had a really strong perfume added that
made me almost gag after I used it for a while. Kinda like the Simple
Green perfume. I can't stand the smell of it anymore.
Eric

[Jim Wilkins]

<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:67inscpofjbpnjgvb...@4ax.com...

> I think I'll try the old method Ed. I have been wanting to get some
> lear lard from the butcher and render it myself for holiday cooking
> this year. Might as well get some lard oil for the shop too. Years
> ago
> I used an aluminum tapping fluid that was mostly lard oil and
> deodorized kerosene. It also had a really strong perfume added that
> made me almost gag after I used it for a while. Kinda like the
> Simple
> Green perfume. I can't stand the smell of it anymore.
> Eric

Look for "Manteca" in the foreign food section.

-jsw

[Ed Huntress]

I'll bet that you can find some better details on lard oil separation
somewhere around the Web. I didn'd look. I'm running on memory from 40
years ago, when Plant Operations (including cutting fluids) was part
of my beat at _American Machinist_. I learned about lard oil from the
old books we had in the McGraw-Hill library, which had accumulated
since AM was founded in 1877.

At one time is was something that was done on farms, so there should
be plenty of info on the low-tech approach, if you can only find it.

BTW, I still use Buttercut straight lard oil for turning steel on my
old South Bend lathe -- which I have to clean up and get back to
using. It does have a unique...er....aroma.

--
Ed Huntress

[ctvc255]

replying to Ignoramus14609, ctvc255 wrote:
Thanks, I learned something new here!

--
for full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/cutting-oil-or-coolant-for-drill-press-641380-.htm

[dca...@krl.org]

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 5:52:44 PM UTC-4, Hul Tytus wrote:
> Joe - water mixed with 1 part Borax, ie Mule Team from the local grocery,
> to 100 parts water eliminated rust on several occasions. Now, the 100 to 1
> is by weight but that's one misty memory. A test with a 1000 to 1 solution
> showed rust.
>
> Hul
>
>

Looking around on tbe internet , I can find lots about using Boraxo to remove rust , but nothing about using it and water as coolant for machining. And nothing about why Boraxo in water prevents rust.

Does anyone have any information on this?

Dan

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Boraxo is a mixture of borax (around 80%) and sodium soap. Borax is quite alkaline -- it's sometimes used in electrolytic de-rusting -- and steel or iron in an alkaline environment usually resists rust. (It has to be continuously covered.)

Borax also is quite abrasive until it's dissolved, so, mixed with soap (as in Boraxo) it's good at removing tough grime. I keep a container of it in the trunk of my car to clean up after gutting and filleting fish. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner Asch]

Borax alone..doesnt do rust removal

https://www.ehow.com/how_6389469_remove-rust-spots-borax.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIerOQDjeDk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz9s9SbWArQ

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 23:52:58 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:48:12 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
><dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 5:52:44 PM UTC-4, Hul Tytus wrote:
>>> Joe - water mixed with 1 part Borax, ie Mule Team from the local grocery,
>>> to 100 parts water eliminated rust on several occasions. Now, the 100 to 1
>>> is by weight but that's one misty memory. A test with a 1000 to 1 solution
>>> showed rust.
>>>
>>> Hul
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Looking around on tbe internet , I can find lots about using Boraxo to remove rust , but nothing about using it and water as coolant for machining. And nothing about why Boraxo in water prevents rust.
>>
>>Does anyone have any information on this?
>>
>> Dan
>
>Borax alone..doesnt do rust removal
>
>https://www.ehow.com/how_6389469_remove-rust-spots-borax.html
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIerOQDjeDk
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz9s9SbWArQ
>
>

Probably the best 3 part video on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCuQquR-rzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljiauwNVjzs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNxyFAsxWW0