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Richard W.

unread,
Dec 22, 2009, 12:20:10 PM12/22/09
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I was sent this today:

Mathew Staver, Founder and Chairman
Liberty Counsel

Now that Harry Reid and the White House arm twisters have
their first of three needed rounds of 60 votes, we are
seeing the "inconvenient truth" about how they got there.
Bottom line - you and I are watching one of the most
corrupt legislative bodies in American history!
Please read below- Mat
Within hours of Monday's dead-of-night railroad vote on
ObamaCare, Senator Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) was already openly
saying what skeptical Americans suspected all along.

"This is just the beginning," he said. "What we're building
is a starter home, not a mansion. And guess what? We have
room for expansions and additions later on."

Harkin was merely trying to placate his party's angry left
wing, but for the majority of Americans who don't want ANY
form of ObamaCare, it was a "suspicions confirmed" moment.
The camel's nose - no, his entire torso - is now in the tent!

How many times must we fall for the socialists' "We have
a terrible emergency here and only our radical plan can
save us" schemes? ObamaCare is just one more "Bait and
Switch" from the Obama/Pelosi/Reid axis of power.

TARP One. ClimateGate. A proposed TARP Two. And now ObamaCare.
The pattern has never strayed very far from Chief of Staff
Rahm Emanuel's famous "Never waste a good crisis" strategy.

++By Monday afternoon, the AMA showed up to get their "fix"

With his bogus "less than a trillion" price tag from the
Congressional Budget Office safely in hand, Harry Reid could
finally afford to "receive" the American Medical Association's
prized endorsement.

How convenient that the AMA's permanent fix to Medicare
reimbursement rates could wait until AFTER the CBO scoring
process on Reid's "Manager's Amendment"!

Of course, the AMA's "doc fix" will add an estimated $250 to
$400 billion dollars to the final tab, and that's just one part
of the "adjustment" process! As we've said all along, ObamaCare
will cost at least $2.5 trillion and bring higher taxes,
taxpayer-funded abortion, a swelling bureaucracy and the
rationing of care.

++Is there any hope left of stopping this monstrosity?

Although socialist leaders are loudly crowing their triumph,
this shakedown is far from a "done deal." As we have often
noted during this battle, Reid, Pelosi and Obama are constantly
trying to assert the "inevitability" of ObamaCare passing.
But it's really not over yet!

Consider these substantial remaining hurdles:

1) The Senate bill still needs two more votes of 60 Senators and
then a final vote. If it does not clear these three remaining
Senate votes, then it is defeated. Today and tomorrow will
see the second and third required "60 vote" sessions. Then,
if they get past these tests, the final vote will take place
on Christmas Eve.

2) The public is increasingly angry about the bill and the
outrageous process Pelosi and Reid have used to get what they
want. Many observers are now saying that tanking public
opinion (and the approaching 2010 elections!) could derail
ObamaCare in the end.

3) The Senate-House Conference Committee, through which the
bill's final form will be hammered out, is likely to become
extremely contentious. If any single Senator objects to
the appointment of conferees, then ObamaCare could be forced
back through the Senate yet another time!

4) There were razor-thin margins of passage in both houses of
Congress. And pro-life Representatives like Bart Stupak are
itching for a fight after the Senate effectively ignored
their abortion concerns in Reid's version of ObamaCare.
Just a few conscience-driven defections in the final
stages would completely upset the socialists' plans!

In short, IT IS NOT TIME TO GIVE UP! And even if this horrendous
bill and its taxpayer-funded abortion provisions are eventually
rammed through, we must still continue resisting!

++ If this bill becomes law, Liberty Counsel is prepared to
challenge its constitutionality in court!

Harry Reid's 383-page amendment and its 2,074-page underlying bill
(H.R. 3590) are unconstitutional because:

1) Congress has NO authority to force every American to
carry insurance coverage, and,
2) Congress has NO authority to fine employers whose
policies do not have the mandated coverage.

If this monstrous healthcare bill passes, it
must be strongly challenged in the federal judiciary from the
moment of its birth. Liberty Counsel stands ready to do exactly
that!

++For now, we must continue to make Congress hear our voice!

Major pro-life and conservative organizations are going all out
this week to BURY the Senate in protest over Harry Reid and
Barack Obama's dirty tricks. They have lied, dissembled,
and manipulated our system to get what they want at any cost.
The Senate still must get 60 votes two more times this week
before they vote to approve Harry Reid's version of the bill.

Americans nationwide are expressing their OUTRAGE at this
manipulation and total lack of integrity. Reid, Pelosi and
Obama have proven they will do anything it takes to get this
government takeover of our medical industry. Now more than
ever, the socialists and abortion advocates need to understand
that WE HAVE NOT GIVEN UP and will resist to the very end!

Here's what I'm asking you to do...

#1 -- Fax Your Senators TODAY!

Even if you have done so many times already, help us continue
flooding Senate offices with feedback from constituents who
refuse to stop protesting these seemingly endless schemes to
deceive, manipulate and disempower the American people!

Go here right now:

http://www.libertyaction.org/r.asp?U=23769&CID=297&RID=21321253

Of course, we always encourage you to send your own faxes if
you prefer. We have provided all the information you need to
reach the key senators here:

http://www.libertyaction.org/r.asp?U=23770&CID=297&RID=21321253

#2 - Call your Senators!

Please... take a moment to call your two Senators - even every
day this week right up to Christmas - and let them know you
are OUTRAGED by the way this bill has been handled. Then urge
them to vote "NO!" on ANY form of ObamaCare:

Sen. Wyden 202-224-5244

Sen. Merkley 202-224-3753

#3 - Pray that this bill will be miraculously derailed! Pray
for God's deliverance from being forced to pay for abortions
and from the overt deceit and trickery that has become the
norm from the Obama/Pelosi/Reid power axis. PLEASE keep
the heat on, especially after we have been deceived and shoved
aside! Go here to raise your voice in protest:

http://www.libertyaction.org/r.asp?U=23771&CID=297&RID=21321253

Now is NOT the time to be silent! Join like-minded Americans
who will be making Harry Reid and the Senate majority realize
that this power-play WILL be the undoing of everyone who votes
for the ObamaCare Abortion Bill of 2009!

God bless you,

Mathew Staver, Founder and Chairman
Liberty Counsel

P.S. This battle is not over, no matter how much the
Pelosi/Reid/Obama power axis wants us to think that it is.

Please pray! There is always hope in God! Continue taking
action! And let your Senators know that you WILL hold them
accountable for their decisions on ObamaCare and its
outrageous handling! Once again, thank you for praying
and speaking out.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Note: Please do not "reply" directly to this e-mail message. This e-mail
address is not designed to receive your personal messages. To contact
Liberty Counsel with comments, questions or to change your status,
see the link at the end of this e-mail.)
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

+ + Comments? Questions?

http://www.libertyaction.org/r.asp?U=23772&CID=297&RID=21321253

Liberty Counsel, with offices in Florida, Virginia and Washington, D.C.,
is a nonprofit litigation, education and policy organization dedicated to
advancing religious freedom, the sanctity of human life and the
traditional
family. Liberty Counsel . PO Box 540774 . Orlando, FL 32854 .
800-671-1776

Bill Noble

unread,
Dec 22, 2009, 12:52:12 PM12/22/09
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are you kidding me?

F. George McDuffee

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Dec 22, 2009, 3:21:04 PM12/22/09
to
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:20:10 -0800, "Richard W."
<raw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>

>Now that Harry Reid and the White House arm twisters have
>their first of three needed rounds of 60 votes, we are
>seeing the "inconvenient truth" about how they got there.
<snip>
============
Several comments:

(1) The 60-vote Senate cloture rule that allows a minority of 41
fanatic, geezer/zombie or sociopath senators to frustrate the
will of the majority of Senators and the American public IS NOT
VIABLE AND MUST BE AMENDED. What at one time was apparently a
reasonable and legitimate provision to insure through and
complete discussion of controversial issues has become a
mechanism to bring the process of legislation to a halt. Such a
requirement is not mentioned in the Constitution. ==>The point
has now been reached that the choice is between maintaining the
archaic 60 vote super majority requirement or functional
representative government.<== The cloture rule has to go.

(2) A revision in the delivery of [payment for] health care is
long overdue. The data clearly shows that the existing "system"
is not tenable, and the socio-economic and demographic trends are
rapidly making the situation worse. Well over half of the
personal bankruptcies appear to be due to unsustainable medical
costs, based on the "debts outstanding" listings when a
bankruptcy petition is filed with the court. Employee medical
insurance and administration is a major cost item for American
businesses. Retiree health care costs have been a major factor
in several recent bankruptcies of major American corporations,
e.g. GM.

Whether the Reid/Pelosi bills will make things better or worse is
an open question, but much of the complexity and cost [i.e.
appropriations and ear marks] of these bills are directly
traceable to archaic 60 vote super-majority requirement that
allow the hold-out and turncoat Senators to blackmail the system.

(3) THE "GOOD OLD DAYS" ARE GONE ==>AND THEY AIN'T COMING
BACK.<== While the "reasons" for these changes can be endlessly
debated, we are in the position of the man who chopped all his
trees down for firewood, and is now complaining because he has no
apples. As the fees/taxes/revenue enhancements of government at
all levels continually increased, and employee benefits/wages
continually fell over the last 30 years, a tipping point/systemic
change to the US economy/society/culture was reached. What we
are now seeing in Washington and the state legislatures is not
the cause of what I perceive to be undesirable changes, but
rather the results and outcomes of decisions, many of which were
deliberately obscure and arcane, taken many years ago.

(4) Rather than wasting your time "tilting at windmills," and
"done deals," goose up your representative and senators to enact
a new Glass-Steagall, repeal the CFTC Modernization Act of 2000,
impose GAO audit requirements on the FRB, get control of our
borders/immigration and "guest workers" e.g. H1b, impose term
limits on all elected offices, pass a Federal balanced budget
amendment, and get the current accounts trade deficit under
control, possibly by abrogation of NAFTA/WTO.


Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Mike Hunter

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Dec 22, 2009, 5:52:58 PM12/22/09
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The ultimate test will come when the healthcare law is tested in the Supreme
Court, as a violation of the Tenth Amendment. The federal government
simply does not have the power to require all citizens to buy healthcare


"Richard W." <raw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TvGdnaOVTd9QYq3W...@molalla.net...

F. George McDuffee

unread,
Dec 22, 2009, 6:37:18 PM12/22/09
to
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:52:58 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:

>The ultimate test will come when the healthcare law is tested in the Supreme
>Court, as a violation of the Tenth Amendment. The federal government
>simply does not have the power to require all citizens to buy healthcare

<snip>
=========
The Tenth Amendment states:
Amendment X.
Rights of States under Constitution.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to
the States respectively, or to the people.

These are the same types of arguments advanced when the Pure Food
and Drug laws, child labor laws, minimum wage laws, and several
others were introduced. The Supremes didn't buy them then and it
is doubtful if they will buy them now. Even if the Supremes
should follow this line of logic (which they have not done for
several generations), nothing is about to stop the Federal
government from enacting legislation/regulations suspending
payment for a number of programs to those states that do not have
mandatory health insurance laws, e.g. WICs, MediCal. Most states
already require proof of vehicle insurance, and most states
mandate employer workmans' compensation fund payments. Health
insurance is simply an extension. To be sure if you are willing
to limit your economic activity to the "underground economy" you
will likely be exempt as no government is likely to waste the
time to conduct "paper sweeps" of the homeless, who can't pay
fines anyhow.

JoeSpareBedroom

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Dec 22, 2009, 6:43:01 PM12/22/09
to
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:3jk2j59fqni1dj8c1...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:52:58 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
> <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>
>>The ultimate test will come when the healthcare law is tested in the
>>Supreme
>>Court, as a violation of the Tenth Amendment. The federal government
>>simply does not have the power to require all citizens to buy healthcare
> <snip>
> =========
> The Tenth Amendment states:
> Amendment X.
> Rights of States under Constitution.
> The powers not delegated to the United States by the
> Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to
> the States respectively, or to the people.
>
> These are the same types of arguments advanced when the Pure Food
> and Drug laws.......


Someone actually argued AGAINST food & drug laws based on the 10th
amendment? Was the existence of the amendment the ONLY reason for opposing
these laws, or were there actual reasons aside from that?


F. George McDuffee

unread,
Dec 22, 2009, 7:42:44 PM12/22/09
to
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:43:01 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
<news...@frontiernet.net> wrote:

>> These are the same types of arguments advanced when the Pure Food
>> and Drug laws.......
>
>
>Someone actually argued AGAINST food & drug laws based on the 10th
>amendment? Was the existence of the amendment the ONLY reason for opposing
>these laws, or were there actual reasons aside from that?

=========
Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope.

Pure food and drug laws limited the ability of several powerful
groups to foist spoiled, inferior and poisonous products off on
the American public, reducing their profits. Then as now there
were people that would argue [for a price] that the
"constitutional" rights of these people and corporations to
poison and deceive the American people were being abridged (which
indeed they were, which was the point of the pure food and drug
laws).
Among many sites see
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2570398
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2651677
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19110621&id=pWkSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DfQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6356,2409707
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5090
http://books.google.com/books?id=viwLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=opposition+%22pure+food+and+drug+laws%22&source=bl&ots=5jlcepQ8Pw&sig=bdVvdDFL6f2h_TlYq9DDDnIQRQk&hl=en&ei=qFsxS7WoBY-UnQeO9uD4CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CB0Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=opposition%20%22pure%20food%20and%20drug%20laws%22&f=false
http://www.museumofquackery.com/ephemera/overview.htm
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1996/1/1996_1_14.shtml
http://outlinesumo.com/outline_preview.php?outline_id=538&page=8
http://www.answers.com/topic/progressivism
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1945355

William Wixon

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Dec 22, 2009, 9:21:08 PM12/22/09
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"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:n0n2j5tcvi573flue...@4ax.com...

see, that's what i mean. now it's time to abridge the free speech rights or
corporations and enact campaign finance reform.

b.w.


FatterDumber& Happier Moe

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 6:30:09 AM12/23/09
to

If the economic pie grows larger we will be able to absorb the health
care costs. If the economic pie gets smaller health care rationing will
have to take place. But we actually already have health care rationing.
If you can afford it and want it unlimited cosmetic surgery is
available, if you are poor and on welfare, you have the coveted state
medical card and no health care problem, it's your ticket to a 600
dollar bottle of aspirin at the emergency room for a headache or having
your major health care problems treated. But if you work for a living
that puts you somewhere in between the rich and the poor and you pay out
the ass when you are healthy and when you are sick you go bankrupt.
It will take some time but in a few years as adjustments are made we
should have some decent preventive health care and decent treatment for
those that are productive and pain management along with end of life
counseling for the useless eaters.

Richard W.

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 12:41:42 PM12/23/09
to

"FatterDumber& Happier Moe" <"WheresMyCheck"@UncleSamLoves.Mee> wrote in
message news:4b31ff41$0$5362$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...

Doesn't it seem odd that we will pay into Obama's health plan for 2 to 3
years before anyone collects a dime in coverage. It would appear that the
money collected will go to the general fund and help pay down the national
debt, just in time for elections to make those in office look good. Who will
benefit? Obama when he goes up for another term. This is why the bill must
be passed now before anyone can read the bill.

As I understand it there is a clause for company's with less than 50
employees. Except that an insert that was put in only allows construction
company's of 5 employees or less. Who wins here is the unions who destroy
the non-union competition. According to the radio we have Kurt Schrader to
thank for this exclusion.

Mike Hunter

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 2:39:08 PM12/23/09
to
You are confusing the Commerce Clause where the feds DO have the right to
protect the commerce of one state from the rights of the individual states.
The feds succeed in forcing some states to accept federal REGULATIONS, not
LAWS, by telling states they would withhold federal funds from the state IF
they refused to abide by the federal REGULATION.
I. E. The 55 MPH speed limit and seat belt laws That is not the case here.
If you look at the different healthcare laws in the various states you will
see that the RIGHT to regulate healthcare is CURRENTLY RESERVED to the
states.

The Dims got Senator Nelson's vote by offering his state 100% reimbursement
for Medicare, and amount GREATER than will go the a much large state like
California since ALL others states will continue to get only the 50%
reimbursement they currently receive. That is seems is in conflict with
the Constitution, as well, and it too will be tested.

Vehicle insurance is a red herring. You do not need a license or buy
insurance to drive of private property. Driving is a Privilege and thus
regulated by State laws that can require you to buy insurance to protect
others, those to whom you have become liable by causing the accident, while
enjoying you privilege to drive.

The nuts are running the Asylum! Currently there is not a single law that
taxes you for simply being a citizen, as does that socialist monstrosity
currently before the Congress.


"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message

news:3jk2j59fqni1dj8c1...@4ax.com...

Mike Hunter

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 2:40:46 PM12/23/09
to
Why are you asking yet another question? Why not do your own search,
Joe$#itForBrains?


"Joe$#itForBrains" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:3QcYm.29233$_b5....@newsfe22.iad...

JoeSpareBedroom

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Dec 23, 2009, 2:41:47 PM12/23/09
to
Your cat litter needs changing again. Call "mother".

"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message
news:4b32719c$0$30563$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...

Mike Hunter

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Dec 23, 2009, 2:55:42 PM12/23/09
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And you wonder why we call you Joe$#itForBrains LOL


"Joe$#itForBrains" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message

news:%nuYm.9410$yM1....@newsfe11.iad...

F. George McDuffee

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 3:27:56 PM12/23/09
to
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:41:42 -0800, "Richard W."
<raw...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"FatterDumber& Happier Moe" <"WheresMyCheck"@UncleSamLoves.Mee> wrote in
>message news:4b31ff41$0$5362$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...

<huge snip>


>Doesn't it seem odd that we will pay into Obama's health plan for 2 to 3
>years before anyone collects a dime in coverage. It would appear that the
>money collected will go to the general fund and help pay down the national
>debt, just in time for elections to make those in office look good. Who will
>benefit? Obama when he goes up for another term. This is why the bill must
>be passed now before anyone can read the bill.
>
>As I understand it there is a clause for company's with less than 50
>employees. Except that an insert that was put in only allows construction
>company's of 5 employees or less. Who wins here is the unions who destroy
>the non-union competition. According to the radio we have Kurt Schrader to
>thank for this exclusion.

==========
The main problem is that you apparently are thinking like someone
who has had experience in problem solving, from the standpoint of
the typical/average citizen that makes up c. 90% of the
population.

As anyone who has had training in, or even any significant
experience with, "problem solving" knows, the first thing to do
is avoid "trying to nail jelly to a tree" by formulating a one or
two sentence problem statement that the people involved all agree
to. This is not a simple exercise, but until it is done, there
will be no focused effort and all of the hidden agenda items
including "rent seeking" will become active. AFAIK a simple
"health care" problem statement has never been formulated,
especially one with measurable objective goals, e.g. "95% of all
American citizens and legal residents will be covered by medical
insurance with at least the minimum coverage detailed in document
XXX." [There are a large number of models/templates for document
XXX, namely the existing insurance plans. Cut and paste the
terms for coverage and exclusions as required.]

The second problem is that the Reid/Pelosi health care plans are
another example of "reinventing the wheel" or "rediscovering
fire," commonly referred to as "NIH" [Not Invented Here]. Every
other major and most minor economies in the world have some form
of universal health care. There appears to have been no attempt
to learn from their (or the individual U.S. state) experiences
nor to investigate their implementations, especially their
investment in IT/data processing of claims and record keeping.

As a result, enormous sums of taxpayer money are sure to be
expended by the Federal government to duplicate and reproduce the
dozens of existing IT/DP programming efforts, including their
numerous dead ends, false starts, and debacles. By itself this
"boondoggle" and "white corporate welfare" will consume most of
the money, time and attention for the first several years. Most
likely this will also result in the issuance of a Federal
Identity Card, first issued and required with the assurance that
"its only for medical record keeping," just like the SSN was
first issued only for use in the social security program and no
other use.

A very major problem is "Truth in Packaging" in that while the
Pelosi/Reid bills may have "Health Insurance" in the titles,
these have very little to do with immediately providing/expanding
medical coverage for the majority of American citizens, and
reducing the number of bankruptcies resulting from medical
expenses, but everything to do with maintaining, indeed
increasing, the gross sales and profits of existing medical
insurance companies and as a "fig leaf" for additional raids on
the taxpayer, via the U.S. Treasury/IRS, through "earmarked
appropriations."

Almost no though appears to have been given to offsetting the
[apparently] large increases in employer/employee taxes by
reductions in their existing medical insurance benefit
costs/copays including retiree and workman's compensation
[medical expense] coverage, thus both the employer and employee
are apparently to be charged 3 [or more] times for the same
coverage.

While "health insurance" and adequate access to affordable
medical care remains a major expense and PITA for most people, it
is simply another symptom of an increasingly disfunctional and
inoperative national government that is unable/unwilling to
address even the most basic and critical socio-economic/fiscal
problems. The folk wisdom "If you always do what you have always
done, you will always get what you always got," seems
appropriate.

Stormin Mormon

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 5:22:09 PM12/23/09
to
They require us to buy roads, bridges, and public buildings.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message

news:4b314d2c$0$1416$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...

Stormin Mormon

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 5:23:29 PM12/23/09
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Slush fund for liberals, maybe?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

.


"Richard W." <raw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:y5OdnYLnjubHy6_W...@molalla.net...

Mike Hunter

unread,
Dec 23, 2009, 6:17:28 PM12/23/09
to
Obviously you attended a public school if you do not understand the
difference. LOL


"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hgu58r$5ka$1...@news.eternal-september.org...

JoeSpareBedroom

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Dec 23, 2009, 6:43:57 PM12/23/09
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LOL your wife is banging the garbage man ROFL LOL

"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message

news:4b32a465$0$31947$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...

Stormin Mormon

unread,
Dec 24, 2009, 5:15:12 AM12/24/09
to
Such is true. I am a publik skool gratuate. Y lernd funetick
spelling, to.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message

news:4b32a465$0$31947$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...

Stormin Mormon

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Dec 24, 2009, 5:15:41 AM12/24/09
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Which wife?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
message news:jQzYm.2305$8e4....@newsfe03.iad...

JoeSpareBedroom

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Dec 24, 2009, 7:20:17 AM12/24/09
to
I was addressing Mike the drunk. Not you.


"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:hgvf5a$kif$1...@news.eternal-september.org...

Mike Hunter

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Dec 24, 2009, 11:26:18 AM12/24/09
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That is about what we would expect from our friend Joe$#itForBrains LOL


"Joe$#itForBrains" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
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Mike Hunter

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Dec 24, 2009, 11:27:17 AM12/24/09
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And you wonder why we call you Joe$#itForBrains LOL


"Joe$#itForBrains" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
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>I was addressing Mike the drunk. Not you.
>
>
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hgvf5a$kif$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Which wife?
>>
>> --
>> Christopher A. Young
>> Learn more about Jesus
>> www.lds.org
>> .
>>
>>

>> "Joe$#itForBrains" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in

JoeSpareBedroom

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Dec 24, 2009, 11:37:14 AM12/24/09
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LOL Change the cat litter on your easy chair.


"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message

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Stormin Mormon

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Dec 24, 2009, 5:24:17 PM12/24/09
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Mike! Check and see where your wives are.

(Sorry, Joe.)

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
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Stormin Mormon

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Dec 24, 2009, 5:25:47 PM12/24/09
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Well? Was she?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message

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William Wixon

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Dec 22, 2009, 9:21:08 PM12/22/09
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"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
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see, that's what i mean. now it's time to abridge the free speech rights or

William Wixon

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Dec 22, 2009, 9:21:08 PM12/22/09
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"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:n0n2j5tcvi573flue...@4ax.com...

see, that's what i mean. now it's time to abridge the free speech rights or

William Wixon

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Dec 22, 2009, 9:21:08 PM12/22/09
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"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:n0n2j5tcvi573flue...@4ax.com...

see, that's what i mean. now it's time to abridge the free speech rights or

William Wixon

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Dec 22, 2009, 9:21:08 PM12/22/09
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"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:n0n2j5tcvi573flue...@4ax.com...

see, that's what i mean. now it's time to abridge the free speech rights or

Stuart Wheaton

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Dec 27, 2009, 2:35:40 PM12/27/09
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Mike Hunter wrote:
> You are confusing the Commerce Clause where the feds DO have the right to
> protect the commerce of one state from the rights of the individual states.
> The feds succeed in forcing some states to accept federal REGULATIONS, not
> LAWS, by telling states they would withhold federal funds from the state IF
> they refused to abide by the federal REGULATION.
> I. E. The 55 MPH speed limit and seat belt laws That is not the case here.
> If you look at the different healthcare laws in the various states you will
> see that the RIGHT to regulate healthcare is CURRENTLY RESERVED to the
> states.
>
> The Dims got Senator Nelson's vote by offering his state 100% reimbursement
> for Medicare, and amount GREATER than will go the a much large state like
> California since ALL others states will continue to get only the 50%
> reimbursement they currently receive. That is seems is in conflict with
> the Constitution, as well, and it too will be tested.
>

As I pointed out in another thread, if one republican had agreed to vote
for Cloture, even if they opted to vote against the bill, then neither
Nelson, nor anyone else in the Dem caucus could have wielded that kind
of power. This is a unique situation because the Dems have exactly 60
senators, and the R's have elected to stonewall completely. If they had
participated, the Bill wouldn't need these deals.

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