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Solar plane reaches Hawaii
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Ed Huntress
Jul 3, 2015, 1:23:16 PM7/3/15
to
One would have to be pretty jaded or cynical not to be impressed by
this. The Solar Impulse 2 made it from Japan to Hawaii:
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/07/03/solar-impulse-2-reaches-hawaii-shatters-records-in-historic-pacific-flight/
--
Ed Huntress
this. The Solar Impulse 2 made it from Japan to Hawaii:
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/07/03/solar-impulse-2-reaches-hawaii-shatters-records-in-historic-pacific-flight/
--
Ed Huntress
Steve W.
Jul 3, 2015, 1:48:44 PM7/3/15
to
takes about 12 hours to fly 200+. And they had to wait for perfect
conditions to do it.
--
Steve W.
Ed Huntress
Jul 3, 2015, 1:52:29 PM7/3/15
to
On Fri, 03 Jul 2015 13:48:41 -0400, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:
I guess you are. Doing it on sunlight alone is a remarkable technical
achievement.
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
achievement.
--
Ed Huntress
David Billington
Jul 3, 2015, 2:18:03 PM7/3/15
to
but wasn't aware of the new try. Not sure I would agree with the longest
flight without refuelling record though as it refuels from the sun
during daylight, how far would it get on a charged set of batteries and
no solar cell input.
David R. Birch
Jul 3, 2015, 2:55:28 PM7/3/15
to
The Wright brothers' plane was only in the air for about a minute and
Lindbergh didn't carry paying passengers or cargo.
Why did they even bother? Fortunately, history has forgotten them.
David
Jim Wilkins
Jul 3, 2015, 3:24:22 PM7/3/15
to
"David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mn6lq...@news6.newsguy.com...
Lindbergh was between the 85th and 93rd (??) person to fly across the
Atlantic. His claim was a non-stop solo; a multi-crew seaplane flew it
in 1919.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_NC-4
"The accomplishment of the naval aviators of the NC-4 was somewhat
eclipsed in the minds of the public by the first nonstop transatlantic
flight, which took 15 hours, 57 minutes, and was made by the Royal Air
Force pilots John Alcock and Arthur Whitten Brown, two weeks later."
While the solar plane is an advance what we need is lower-cost solar
power, not lowest weight at high cost.
-jsw
news:mn6lq...@news6.newsguy.com...
Atlantic. His claim was a non-stop solo; a multi-crew seaplane flew it
in 1919.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_NC-4
"The accomplishment of the naval aviators of the NC-4 was somewhat
eclipsed in the minds of the public by the first nonstop transatlantic
flight, which took 15 hours, 57 minutes, and was made by the Royal Air
Force pilots John Alcock and Arthur Whitten Brown, two weeks later."
While the solar plane is an advance what we need is lower-cost solar
power, not lowest weight at high cost.
-jsw
David R. Birch
Jul 3, 2015, 4:49:13 PM7/3/15
to
>
> While the solar plane is an advance what we need is lower-cost solar
> power, not lowest weight at high cost.
others to improve on the tech? Make it cheaper and cost effective?
Sure.
David
Jim Wilkins
Jul 3, 2015, 6:44:41 PM7/3/15
to
news:mn6sd...@news4.newsguy.com...
None, and few have since because it's unnecessarily dangerous and
proves nothing about the aircraft.
In 1967 the actress who played Vina in Star Trek's "Menagerie" became
the second woman to fly a single-engined aircraft solo from New York
to Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Oliver
I've used my flight sim to retrace Lindbergh's exploratory flights to
scout out transoceanic airline routes.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/100years/stories/lindbergh.html
>
>>
>> While the solar plane is an advance what we need is lower-cost
>> solar
>> power, not lowest weight at high cost.
>
> So the fact that it is being done means nothing and will not inspire
> others to improve on the tech? Make it cheaper and cost effective?
>
> Sure.
>
> David
Research funding and a market will inspire improvements. I don't know
how practical the goal of 24/7 flying WiFi hotspots is. Thunderstorms
reach higher than airliners can climb and have brought down several,
like Air France AF447.
This is the competition to solar-electric aircraft:
http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20130507/C4ISR02/305070027/Aerostats-Lost-Weather-Mishaps-Take-Heavy-Toll-Dirigibles
Both can stay on station a long time, neither is a practical people or
cargo transport.
Having worked in the R&D field I'm just wary of becoming enthusiastic
over publicity stunts. I want to see practical applications.
-jsw
proves nothing about the aircraft.
In 1967 the actress who played Vina in Star Trek's "Menagerie" became
the second woman to fly a single-engined aircraft solo from New York
to Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Oliver
I've used my flight sim to retrace Lindbergh's exploratory flights to
scout out transoceanic airline routes.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/100years/stories/lindbergh.html
>
>>
>> While the solar plane is an advance what we need is lower-cost
>> solar
>> power, not lowest weight at high cost.
>
> So the fact that it is being done means nothing and will not inspire
> others to improve on the tech? Make it cheaper and cost effective?
>
> Sure.
>
> David
how practical the goal of 24/7 flying WiFi hotspots is. Thunderstorms
reach higher than airliners can climb and have brought down several,
like Air France AF447.
This is the competition to solar-electric aircraft:
http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20130507/C4ISR02/305070027/Aerostats-Lost-Weather-Mishaps-Take-Heavy-Toll-Dirigibles
Both can stay on station a long time, neither is a practical people or
cargo transport.
Having worked in the R&D field I'm just wary of becoming enthusiastic
over publicity stunts. I want to see practical applications.
-jsw
dca...@krl.org
Jul 3, 2015, 8:42:50 PM7/3/15
to
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 1:52:29 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
> I guess you are. Doing it on sunlight alone is a remarkable technical
> achievement.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
So what are the technical advances? A new type of solar cell? A new type of battery? A new material used in the frame or covering of the aircraft?
> I guess you are. Doing it on sunlight alone is a remarkable technical
> achievement.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
The TV program I saw said it was a publicity stunt to promote solar cell useage. The big technical advance according to the TV was a seat with a built in toilet.
I thought we already had solar powered drones that could remain aloft for days.
Dan
Ed Huntress
Jul 3, 2015, 11:14:21 PM7/3/15
to
hadn't been done before.
--
Ed Huntress
Martin Eastburn
Jul 3, 2015, 11:58:03 PM7/3/15
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I thought that the Solar plane that Nasa flew went from Ca to Australia.
It wasn't going around the world it was doing long loops.
It was using the special solar cells that Cypress Semi developed and
spun off. Very efficient. This one might be using the same cells.
Martin
It wasn't going around the world it was doing long loops.
It was using the special solar cells that Cypress Semi developed and
spun off. Very efficient. This one might be using the same cells.
Martin
Jim Wilkins
Jul 4, 2015, 7:27:43 AM7/4/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:nnjepa1h1ecb8u0bt...@4ax.com...
Do you remember the first non-stop, non-refueled flight around the
world? It wasn't that long ago.
The longest refueled flight stayed in the air for two MONTHS.
http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=16948
Hardly anyone noticed the first commercial aircraft flight around the
world:
http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/december-7-1941-and-the-first-around-the-world-commercial-flight/
This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race as
tourists?"
First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
British winner was made of wood.
One of the DNF competitors was the second person to solo the Atlantic,
after Lindbergh. Do you know who?
I ask to demonstrate how little it meant.
-jsw
news:nnjepa1h1ecb8u0bt...@4ax.com...
world? It wasn't that long ago.
The longest refueled flight stayed in the air for two MONTHS.
http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=16948
Hardly anyone noticed the first commercial aircraft flight around the
world:
http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/december-7-1941-and-the-first-around-the-world-commercial-flight/
This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race as
tourists?"
First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
British winner was made of wood.
One of the DNF competitors was the second person to solo the Atlantic,
after Lindbergh. Do you know who?
I ask to demonstrate how little it meant.
-jsw
Ed Huntress
Jul 4, 2015, 9:25:32 AM7/4/15
to
>
>The longest refueled flight stayed in the air for two MONTHS.
>http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=16948
>
>Hardly anyone noticed the first commercial aircraft flight around the
>world:
>http://blog.nasm.si.edu/aviation/december-7-1941-and-the-first-around-the-world-commercial-flight/
>
>This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race as
>tourists?"
>
>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>British winner was made of wood.
>
>One of the DNF competitors was the second person to solo the Atlantic,
>after Lindbergh. Do you know who?
>
>I ask to demonstrate how little it meant.
>
>-jsw
accomplishment is substantial -- flying that distance over water in a
manned, heavier-than-air aircraft, powered by the sun alone, with
batteries that sustained flight throughout the night. That hasn't been
done before, and it gives some perspective to the state of the art in
solar power. That's more capability than most people would guess.
Now, if you want to do an engineering analysis of it, or to rate it in
terms of what it portends for the future: The first is like analyzing
an early helicopter flight. Of course it can be done. But it wasn't
until it was done. And the doing is the achievement. The engineering
is a sterile exercise until it's accomplished.
In terms of what it portends, remember that the first airplanes were
dismissed as impractical toys. We don't *know* what these things
portend. In this case, the influence will be a heightened sense of
what solar power can do -- which, of course, was the point of the
exercise.
But it's the doing that was the accomplishment.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
Jul 4, 2015, 10:44:19 AM7/4/15
to
news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
Naturally a magazine writer needs to sell the sizzle rather than the
steak.
steak.
Jim Wilkins
Jul 4, 2015, 11:00:29 AM7/4/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
> ...
>>This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>
> In what sense?
>
>>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>as
>>tourists?"
>>
>>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>British winner was made of wood.
>>
>
> --
>>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>
> In what sense?
>
>>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>as
>>tourists?"
>>
>>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>British winner was made of wood.
>>
>
> Ed Huntress
Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
plane?
-jsw
Ed Huntress
Jul 4, 2015, 11:21:07 AM7/4/15
to
On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 10:44:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
That's an ad copywriter. A good magazine writer gets the facts
straight and puts them in perspective.
And the perspective, in this case, is less a matter of engineering
than a matter of human accomplishment -- which is notable in this
case, and to most people, pretty damned impressive.
--
Ed Huntress
straight and puts them in perspective.
And the perspective, in this case, is less a matter of engineering
than a matter of human accomplishment -- which is notable in this
case, and to most people, pretty damned impressive.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
Jul 4, 2015, 11:26:55 AM7/4/15
to
On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 11:01:04 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
could fly that route?
The "significance" in the case you're talking about isn't a matter of
ground-breaking achievement. It's a matter of the state of commercial
aircraft at that time. From a business perspective, I'm sure it was
significant. From the perspective of human achievement, not much.
I know the DC-2 and I've flown several times in DC-3s, including a
wild ride in the Canadian subarctic. They were advanced aircraft for
their time. Very nice.
--
Ed Huntress
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 07:28:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>>This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>>
>> In what sense?
>>
>>>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>>as
>>>tourists?"
>>>
>>>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>>British winner was made of wood.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>plane?
>
>-jsw
So what was the "significance"? That a commercially oriented airplane
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 07:28:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>>This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>>
>> In what sense?
>>
>>>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>>as
>>>tourists?"
>>>
>>>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>>British winner was made of wood.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>plane?
>
>-jsw
could fly that route?
The "significance" in the case you're talking about isn't a matter of
ground-breaking achievement. It's a matter of the state of commercial
aircraft at that time. From a business perspective, I'm sure it was
significant. From the perspective of human achievement, not much.
I know the DC-2 and I've flown several times in DC-3s, including a
wild ride in the Canadian subarctic. They were advanced aircraft for
their time. Very nice.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
Jul 4, 2015, 12:17:22 PM7/4/15
to
news:afufpad2gvnofmvov...@4ax.com...
Solar aircraft show that we can build an airframe too light and
fragile to carry more than its own propulsion. But we've known how
since the human powered aircraft flew.
http://www.howitworksdaily.com/how-does-the-solar-impulse-plane-work/
"Amazingly, the 8hp produced by the Solar Impulse's engines is the
same amount of power the Wright brothers had available to them in
their historic 1903 flight."
fragile to carry more than its own propulsion. But we've known how
since the human powered aircraft flew.
http://www.howitworksdaily.com/how-does-the-solar-impulse-plane-work/
"Amazingly, the 8hp produced by the Solar Impulse's engines is the
same amount of power the Wright brothers had available to them in
their historic 1903 flight."
Leon Fisk
Jul 4, 2015, 2:02:49 PM7/4/15
to
On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 18:45:15 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
in 2017:
http://www.cnet.com/news/airbus-shows-e-fan-its-electric-plane-due-in-2017/
I tend to agree with your comments and solar power though :)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Having worked in the R&D field I'm just wary of becoming enthusiastic
>over publicity stunts. I want to see practical applications.
Not solar powered but battery powered and maybe commercially available
>over publicity stunts. I want to see practical applications.
in 2017:
http://www.cnet.com/news/airbus-shows-e-fan-its-electric-plane-due-in-2017/
I tend to agree with your comments and solar power though :)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
Ed Huntress
Jul 4, 2015, 2:40:23 PM7/4/15
to
On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 12:17:56 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
I really doubt if anyone cares, Jim. It isn't about the airframe or
the horsepower. It's about doing it on solar energy.
Except for the most phlegmatic of engineers <g>, it caught the
attention of a lot of people -- in a positive way.
--
Ed Huntress
the horsepower. It's about doing it on solar energy.
Except for the most phlegmatic of engineers <g>, it caught the
attention of a lot of people -- in a positive way.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
Jul 4, 2015, 3:15:43 PM7/4/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:51agpat6u7ve6ijkv...@4ax.com...
very few who can contribute to this technology.
Larry Jaques
Jul 5, 2015, 10:07:50 AM7/5/15
to
On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 11:01:04 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
I'd love to watch some of today's commercial passengers _attempt_ to
walk up and down the aisle to their seats in a grounded Gooney Bird.
And I'd love to fly as a crewman in a Spooky version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFVuG2KQqk Arr, arr, arr!
Dad flew Gooney Birds (somewhere) and C-123s (over Nam) in the 60s,
just before retiring.
--
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
-- Margaret Atwood
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 07:28:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>>This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>>
>> In what sense?
>>
>>>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>>as
>>>tourists?"
>>>
>>>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>>British winner was made of wood.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>plane?
Not since the dementia hit him several years ago, no.
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 07:28:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>>This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>>http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>>
>> In what sense?
>>
>>>"Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>>exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>>Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>>as
>>>tourists?"
>>>
>>>First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>>airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>>of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>>British winner was made of wood.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>plane?
I'd love to watch some of today's commercial passengers _attempt_ to
walk up and down the aisle to their seats in a grounded Gooney Bird.
And I'd love to fly as a crewman in a Spooky version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFVuG2KQqk Arr, arr, arr!
Dad flew Gooney Birds (somewhere) and C-123s (over Nam) in the 60s,
just before retiring.
--
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
-- Margaret Atwood
Ed Huntress
Jul 5, 2015, 10:47:35 AM7/5/15
to
airliner, the Lockheed Electra, set an around-the-world speed record,
and numerous other records, and was a contemporary of the Douglas
planes. Why are they not more significant?
Oh, you don't know? Neither does anyone else. All of this
"significance" crap is a question of what you think is most important.
You're just blowing smoke again.
--
Ed untress
walter_...@post.com
Jul 5, 2015, 6:30:36 PM7/5/15
to
John B.
Jul 5, 2015, 10:56:43 PM7/5/15
to
slower than the outright winner, the Dehaviland DH-88 for the entire
trip which would seem to prove that the DC-2 was the more reliable
plane as the DH had a cruising speed of 220 MPH while the DC-2 was
probably about 160 MPH.
--
cheers,
John B.
John B.
Jul 5, 2015, 11:16:24 PM7/5/15
to
operated the Puff airplanes. If I remember correctly we lost one
airplane during the 14 months I was there. It crashed on climb out
taking off from Cam Ranh and was damaged so badly that it was never
determined whether it was caused by enemy fire or not. But they did
find the torque tube connecting the elevators broken and we did a
"before it flies again" inspection of every airplane - none damaged.
We did a big mod on the mini gun mounts and I went along on the first
one modified. We carried several 55 gallon drums and pushed one out
the door into the bay. Made a firing pass - one gun, big fountain of
water and the drum disappears. It was quite impressive. Push the rest
out the door. Make a firing pass with all three guns... BIG fountain
of water and all the drums disappear. Even more impressive.
Our brag was, at that time, was that we never lost a fort, if we
reached the fort before the V.C. had gotten through the perimeter.
If you went in a bar with any of the Special Forces troops there and
bellied up to the bar the usual opening remark is "what outfit you
in". If you said, "air commando wing... puff the magic dragon" you got
free beer :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Gunner Asch
Jul 6, 2015, 2:55:11 AM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 10:16:20 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Your boys saved my young ass more than once.
Thanks!!!
Gunner
wrote:
Thanks!!!
Gunner
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 7:43:03 AM7/6/15
to
"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:r1rjpa1oj6e27ap9u...@4ax.com...
The DC-2 flat-out beat the other two DeHavilland custom racers, though
to be fair Mollison's failed due to lower octane fuel he was forced to
use after getting lost. Britain's aircraft industry had been
distracted by the sizzle of speed while Americans concentrated on the
steak of range and reliability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Trophy
"It was intended to encourage technical advances in civil aviation but
became a contest for pure speed..."
During the war no other nation could approach our ability to support
world-wide military operations by air, despite Goering's air-filled
promises. In New Guinea DC-3s enabled leapfrog infantry raids deep
behind Japanese lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kaiapit
Notice the air-delivered Jeep's dust cloud. We could also fly in
artillery, and small bulldozers to bootstrap the grass strip into a
base for fighters and bombers.
AFAICT the Solar Impulse 2's only advance is a small tweak to the
battery electrolyte that requires impractically precise temperature
control. Bertrand Piccard is the rich adventurer who previously flew
non-stop around the world in a balloon, for whatever that is worth.
Setting records keeps getting harder. The skipper of an ocean racer
needed rear view mirrors in case he was being overtaken by a faster US
nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
-jsw
news:r1rjpa1oj6e27ap9u...@4ax.com...
to be fair Mollison's failed due to lower octane fuel he was forced to
use after getting lost. Britain's aircraft industry had been
distracted by the sizzle of speed while Americans concentrated on the
steak of range and reliability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Trophy
"It was intended to encourage technical advances in civil aviation but
became a contest for pure speed..."
During the war no other nation could approach our ability to support
world-wide military operations by air, despite Goering's air-filled
promises. In New Guinea DC-3s enabled leapfrog infantry raids deep
behind Japanese lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kaiapit
Notice the air-delivered Jeep's dust cloud. We could also fly in
artillery, and small bulldozers to bootstrap the grass strip into a
base for fighters and bombers.
AFAICT the Solar Impulse 2's only advance is a small tweak to the
battery electrolyte that requires impractically precise temperature
control. Bertrand Piccard is the rich adventurer who previously flew
non-stop around the world in a balloon, for whatever that is worth.
Setting records keeps getting harder. The skipper of an ocean racer
needed rear view mirrors in case he was being overtaken by a faster US
nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
-jsw
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 7:58:15 AM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:56:38 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
The DC-2 was an understressed, reliable step in the development of
commercial airliners. There's a great story I enjoyed reading about
one some years ago, which flew through an icestorm in the Midwest,
contnued flying and landed safely with heavily iced wings. The pilot
said a DC-3 never would have stayed aloft under those conditions.
There were many pivotal developments in aircraft, about any one of
which we could debate their "significance." Amidst the engineering, I
think we lose sight, however, of accomplishments that reflect a new
awareness on the part of the general public. A race winner may catch
attention for a moment. But an accomplishment like
continent-to-continent nonstop transatlantic flight (as opposed to,
say, island-to-island <g>) provoked a new awareness. Breaking the
sound "barrier" provoked a new awareness. Flying a manned aircraft on
solar power, across much of the Pacific in one hop, provokes a new
awareness.
--
Ed Huntress
commercial airliners. There's a great story I enjoyed reading about
one some years ago, which flew through an icestorm in the Midwest,
contnued flying and landed safely with heavily iced wings. The pilot
said a DC-3 never would have stayed aloft under those conditions.
There were many pivotal developments in aircraft, about any one of
which we could debate their "significance." Amidst the engineering, I
think we lose sight, however, of accomplishments that reflect a new
awareness on the part of the general public. A race winner may catch
attention for a moment. But an accomplishment like
continent-to-continent nonstop transatlantic flight (as opposed to,
say, island-to-island <g>) provoked a new awareness. Breaking the
sound "barrier" provoked a new awareness. Flying a manned aircraft on
solar power, across much of the Pacific in one hop, provokes a new
awareness.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 8:51:02 AM7/6/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mtmkpa1q0qik54kvl...@4ax.com...
priority is selling its own relevance.
-jsw
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 9:24:53 AM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 08:51:37 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
Whether you're "aware" is up to you. As for the advertising industry,
its main priority is selling its clients' products. If you don't
recognize that, you're not aware in any broad sense.
--
Ed Huntress
its main priority is selling its clients' products. If you don't
recognize that, you're not aware in any broad sense.
--
Ed Huntress
John B.
Jul 6, 2015, 9:43:50 AM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 07:58:12 -0400, Ed Huntress
When I was going to school in Miami there was a D-2 in one of the
hangers. There were people working on it and eventually it left.
Someone said that it had been taken to S. America to fly there.
In Vietnam I worked on DC-3's that were as old as I was :-)
>There were many pivotal developments in aircraft, about any one of
>which we could debate their "significance." Amidst the engineering, I
>think we lose sight, however, of accomplishments that reflect a new
>awareness on the part of the general public. A race winner may catch
>attention for a moment. But an accomplishment like
>continent-to-continent nonstop transatlantic flight (as opposed to,
>say, island-to-island <g>) provoked a new awareness. Breaking the
>sound "barrier" provoked a new awareness. Flying a manned aircraft on
>solar power, across much of the Pacific in one hop, provokes a new
>awareness.
But... at least from all I can find, the Solar Impulse is very much a
powered glider. Powered with an electric motor(s) true but as an
airplane not a really new thing. It is made of new materials and self
charges but what else? The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
26,366 statue miles.
While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
innovative in aeronautics.
By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
hangers. There were people working on it and eventually it left.
Someone said that it had been taken to S. America to fly there.
In Vietnam I worked on DC-3's that were as old as I was :-)
>There were many pivotal developments in aircraft, about any one of
>which we could debate their "significance." Amidst the engineering, I
>think we lose sight, however, of accomplishments that reflect a new
>awareness on the part of the general public. A race winner may catch
>attention for a moment. But an accomplishment like
>continent-to-continent nonstop transatlantic flight (as opposed to,
>say, island-to-island <g>) provoked a new awareness. Breaking the
>sound "barrier" provoked a new awareness. Flying a manned aircraft on
>solar power, across much of the Pacific in one hop, provokes a new
>awareness.
powered glider. Powered with an electric motor(s) true but as an
airplane not a really new thing. It is made of new materials and self
charges but what else? The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
26,366 statue miles.
While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
innovative in aeronautics.
By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 9:50:27 AM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:43:46 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
It flew 2/3 of the way across the Pacific, to Hawaii, in one hop and
flying at night -- on solar power.
That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
minds when solar power is discussed.
>The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
>without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
>26,366 statue miles.
Right. It got some headlines, too. But it wasn't solar powered. It
isn't going to create a new awareness for gasoline. d8-)
>
>While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
>innovative in aeronautics.
This isn't about aeronautics.
>
>By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
>be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
Do you know who Bob Hatchek is? Google his name. He and I were editors
together at _American Machinist_. I got a dose of model gliders every
day at lunch, for years. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
flying at night -- on solar power.
That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
minds when solar power is discussed.
>The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
>without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
>26,366 statue miles.
isn't going to create a new awareness for gasoline. d8-)
>
>While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
>innovative in aeronautics.
>
>By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
>be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
together at _American Machinist_. I got a dose of model gliders every
day at lunch, for years. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 9:52:26 AM7/6/15
to
ago.
Anyway, it's Bob Hatschek. Look him up.
--
Ed Huntress
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jul 6, 2015, 10:03:51 AM7/6/15
to
Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in
news:1v1lpatui8ojscvt6...@4ax.com:
> I got a dose of model gliders every
>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>
Ed, just to be clear, just because you were 'exposed' to model sailplanes
every lunch break doesn't actually mean you were familiar with the
longest flight time of one!
I look on all this solar flying stuff differently than the rest of you, I
guess.
I don't really care if it revolutionizes anything, or changes anyones'
minds, or starts (or doesn't) renewed interest in Solar Anything.
In my mind, the reason they did it is -- nobody ever did it before. It's
a new 'milemarker' in what we _can_ do. It doesn't have to be important
NOW.
Future technology might be affected just because some young engineer or
physicist KNEW that the solar flight had happened. "Connections", as it
were.
LLoyd
news:1v1lpatui8ojscvt6...@4ax.com:
> I got a dose of model gliders every
>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>
every lunch break doesn't actually mean you were familiar with the
longest flight time of one!
I look on all this solar flying stuff differently than the rest of you, I
guess.
I don't really care if it revolutionizes anything, or changes anyones'
minds, or starts (or doesn't) renewed interest in Solar Anything.
In my mind, the reason they did it is -- nobody ever did it before. It's
a new 'milemarker' in what we _can_ do. It doesn't have to be important
NOW.
Future technology might be affected just because some young engineer or
physicist KNEW that the solar flight had happened. "Connections", as it
were.
LLoyd
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 10:25:33 AM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:03:47 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in
>news:1v1lpatui8ojscvt6...@4ax.com:
>
>> I got a dose of model gliders every
>>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>>
>
>Ed, just to be clear, just because you were 'exposed' to model sailplanes
>every lunch break doesn't actually mean you were familiar with the
>longest flight time of one!
Lloyd, just to be clear, I was. Hatschek held several international
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in
>news:1v1lpatui8ojscvt6...@4ax.com:
>
>> I got a dose of model gliders every
>>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>>
>
>Ed, just to be clear, just because you were 'exposed' to model sailplanes
>every lunch break doesn't actually mean you were familiar with the
>longest flight time of one!
records himself, and I would get a call or an email whenever a record
was broken or something else noteable happened in the world of model
gliders.
Bob owned my old 6" lathe and we were friends for years. He also was a
friend of Paul MacCready (Gossamer Albatross, etc.) and was deeply
involved in human- and solar-powered flight. He knew I flew full-size
gliders (K-6, K-13, 2-22, 2-33, and 1-26) and we kept up conversations
for hours on end.
When that 36-hour record was set, in the early '60s, I heard about it
within a week.
>
>I look on all this solar flying stuff differently than the rest of you, I
>guess.
>
>I don't really care if it revolutionizes anything, or changes anyones'
>minds, or starts (or doesn't) renewed interest in Solar Anything.
>
>In my mind, the reason they did it is -- nobody ever did it before. It's
>a new 'milemarker' in what we _can_ do. It doesn't have to be important
>NOW.
>
>Future technology might be affected just because some young engineer or
>physicist KNEW that the solar flight had happened. "Connections", as it
>were.
>
>LLoyd
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 10:37:18 AM7/6/15
to
>Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in
>news:1v1lpatui8ojscvt6...@4ax.com:
>
>> I got a dose of model gliders every
>>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>>
>
>Ed, just to be clear, just because you were 'exposed' to model sailplanes
>every lunch break doesn't actually mean you were familiar with the
>longest flight time of one!
This is the guy I'm talking about. He died a few years ago:
>news:1v1lpatui8ojscvt6...@4ax.com:
>
>> I got a dose of model gliders every
>>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>>
>
>Ed, just to be clear, just because you were 'exposed' to model sailplanes
>every lunch break doesn't actually mean you were familiar with the
>longest flight time of one!
https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/HatschekRobertLBob.pdf
--
Ed Huntress
David R. Birch
Jul 6, 2015, 11:06:55 AM7/6/15
to
BTW, there is company here in Wisconsin rebuilding and upgrading DC-3s
http://www.baslerturbo.com/
David
http://www.baslerturbo.com/
David
Bob Engelhardt
Jul 6, 2015, 11:37:16 AM7/6/15
to
On 7/6/2015 7:43 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> ... The skipper of an ocean racer
slicing through the water; zoom in on the racer to see its on-the-edge
trim, its heel, and the spray coming over as it sizzles along; the
essence of speed. From on-board the racer pan over to the discernible
shape of an approaching aircraft carrier. Stay on the carrier as it
nears the racer, growing larger and larger until it fills the frame,
dwarfing the racer as it passes. Then back to the chopper for the
opening view, but with the carrier pulling away and the racer looking
puny. I love it.
Bob
> ... The skipper of an ocean racer
> needed rear view mirrors in case he was being overtaken by a faster US
> nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
That would be a great video: a long helicopter shot of this sleek racer
> nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
slicing through the water; zoom in on the racer to see its on-the-edge
trim, its heel, and the spray coming over as it sizzles along; the
essence of speed. From on-board the racer pan over to the discernible
shape of an approaching aircraft carrier. Stay on the carrier as it
nears the racer, growing larger and larger until it fills the frame,
dwarfing the racer as it passes. Then back to the chopper for the
opening view, but with the carrier pulling away and the racer looking
puny. I love it.
Bob
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 12:37:22 PM7/6/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:qi1lpapnse4kqjb3l...@4ax.com...
>>
> ...
> It flew 2/3 of the way across the Pacific, to Hawaii, in one hop and
> flying at night -- on solar power.
>
> That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
> minds when solar power is discussed.
> ...
> flying at night -- on solar power.
>
> That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
> minds when solar power is discussed.
> Ed Huntress
I kept Chinese takeout cold in my refrigerator overnight with solar
power.
Where are all the reporters?
-jsw
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 12:41:46 PM7/6/15
to
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 1:04:12 PM7/6/15
to
"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mne7a...@news4.newsguy.com...
IIRC the racer couldn't go as fast as the carrier in heavy seas
because he would become airborne off wave crests.
A carrier's theoretical hull speed is somewhat over 40 knots.
1.34 * SQRT(1000) = 42.37
-jsw
news:mne7a...@news4.newsguy.com...
because he would become airborne off wave crests.
A carrier's theoretical hull speed is somewhat over 40 knots.
1.34 * SQRT(1000) = 42.37
-jsw
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 1:16:08 PM7/6/15
to
news:qrblpa5c2bdifho8g...@4ax.com...
It did have wings.
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 1:49:15 PM7/6/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:qrblpa5c2bdifho8g...@4ax.com...
>
> Does it fly? <g>
> --
> Ed Huntress
As a kid I discovered that I could make a very light poly film
> Does it fly? <g>
> --
> Ed Huntress
parachute fly on a humid sunny day. I cut them from dry cleaners' bags
and ballasted them with a tiny twig, just barely enough weight to keep
them open. The shroud knot tucks pulled the flat canopy sheet into a
mushroom shape. They rose slowly on thermals and glistened like
polished metal from the sun and cloud reflections as they drifted out
of sight over the distant treetops.
This was in Exeter, NH in the 1950's, upwind from Betty and Barney
Hill's house.
I had nothing to do with the 1965 incident in Kensington. At that time
I was launching my UFO balloons in Durham.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_incident
dpb
Jul 6, 2015, 1:52:50 PM7/6/15
to
On 07/06/2015 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> ... As for the advertising industry,
> its main priority is selling its clients' products. ...
I'd say it's _main_ priority, like any other business is continuing to
sell _its_ own product. :) That it helps to do that to succeed in the
other objective is a bonus.
--
> ... As for the advertising industry,
> its main priority is selling its clients' products. ...
I'd say it's _main_ priority, like any other business is continuing to
sell _its_ own product. :) That it helps to do that to succeed in the
other objective is a bonus.
--
dpb
Jul 6, 2015, 1:57:03 PM7/6/15
to
On 07/06/2015 12:16 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Ed Huntress"<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:qrblpa5c2bdifho8g...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 12:37:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
...
> "Ed Huntress"<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:qrblpa5c2bdifho8g...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 12:37:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I kept Chinese takeout cold in my refrigerator overnight with solar
>>> power.
>>>
>>> Where are all the reporters?
>>>
>>> -jsw
>>
>> Does it fly?<g>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
> It did have wings.
Most flies do.. :)
>>> power.
>>>
>>> Where are all the reporters?
>>>
>>> -jsw
>>
>> Does it fly?<g>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
> It did have wings.
--
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 2:08:28 PM7/6/15
to
"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message
news:mnefeo$7dh$2...@dont-email.me...
These were teriyaki wings.
news:mnefeo$7dh$2...@dont-email.me...
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jul 6, 2015, 2:20:15 PM7/6/15
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> fired this volley in news:mnef03$841
$1...@dont-email.me:
> They rose slowly on thermals and glistened like
> polished metal from the sun and cloud reflections as they drifted out
> of sight over the distant treetops.
>
Did the same in 1958, Jim! It was chancy, whether or not you could find
a thermal, but in Florida, they're common, especially if you knew what to
look for in the trees nearby. So I had about a 3-4% success rate.
It got better when I started launching them wrapped up from a huge
slingshot! <G>
L
$1...@dont-email.me:
> They rose slowly on thermals and glistened like
> polished metal from the sun and cloud reflections as they drifted out
> of sight over the distant treetops.
>
a thermal, but in Florida, they're common, especially if you knew what to
look for in the trees nearby. So I had about a 3-4% success rate.
It got better when I started launching them wrapped up from a huge
slingshot! <G>
L
Gunner Asch
Jul 6, 2015, 2:34:19 PM7/6/15
to
^ 5!!!!
Gunner
dca...@krl.org
Jul 6, 2015, 5:33:30 PM7/6/15
to
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 9:43:50 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> But... at least from all I can find, the Solar Impulse is very much a
> powered glider. Powered with an electric motor(s) true but as an
> airplane not a really new thing. It is made of new materials and self
> charges but what else? The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
> without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
> 26,366 statue miles.
>
> While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
> innovative in aeronautics.
>
> By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
> be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
> --
> cheers,
>
> John B.
I forget most of the detail , but another feat was a model airplane that flew across the Atlantic using GPS for guidance. But it was a powered airplane.
> But... at least from all I can find, the Solar Impulse is very much a
> powered glider. Powered with an electric motor(s) true but as an
> airplane not a really new thing. It is made of new materials and self
> charges but what else? The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
> without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
> 26,366 statue miles.
>
> While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
> innovative in aeronautics.
>
> By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
> be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
> --
> cheers,
>
> John B.
Did a google search and found this.
http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/UAV/milestones/atlantic_crossing_2.html
But that was not the model airplane I was thinking of.
Dan
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 5:38:04 PM7/6/15
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA4CF91D7CDF07ll...@216.168.4.170...
I used the round cans that Scotch tape came in for the catapulted
parachutes, with the opening delay set by how I wound the shrouds
around the can, but the thermal chutes were too light to open by
themselves. I dragged them open and then flipped the mass of air they
contained upwards to get them started.
The thermals aren's so strong in NH, our thunderstorms can't compare
to Florida's. They are driven by the lower adiabatic lapse rate of
saturated vs drier air, ie wet air becomes more buoyant the higher it
rises because it doesn't cool as fast as the dry air around it. Thus
we have thermal updrafts and thunderstorms.
-jsw
news:XnsA4CF91D7CDF07ll...@216.168.4.170...
parachutes, with the opening delay set by how I wound the shrouds
around the can, but the thermal chutes were too light to open by
themselves. I dragged them open and then flipped the mass of air they
contained upwards to get them started.
The thermals aren's so strong in NH, our thunderstorms can't compare
to Florida's. They are driven by the lower adiabatic lapse rate of
saturated vs drier air, ie wet air becomes more buoyant the higher it
rises because it doesn't cool as fast as the dry air around it. Thus
we have thermal updrafts and thunderstorms.
-jsw
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 5:56:17 PM7/6/15
to
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ueilpah6rsdhsj62i...@4ax.com...
Supposedly Donald Campbell almost gave up chasing records when after
nearly killing himself to briefly reach 440 MPH he was flying home and
calmly enjoying a steak when the captain announced their speed as 550
MPH.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Campbell
news:ueilpah6rsdhsj62i...@4ax.com...
nearly killing himself to briefly reach 440 MPH he was flying home and
calmly enjoying a steak when the captain announced their speed as 550
MPH.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Campbell
walter_...@post.com
Jul 6, 2015, 6:13:03 PM7/6/15
to
Now who knows? If you aren't a part of either of those three, then I guess you can't always expect the media to just show up all willy-nilly.
John B.
Jul 6, 2015, 8:42:24 PM7/6/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:50:24 -0400, Ed Huntress
But so what? Is it really important that something is powered with
electricity flew? Good Lord, electric powered model airplanes have
been flying for some time now. It is not new!
Some time ago some blokes flew a human powered airplane across the
English Channel and everyone clapped their hands and shouted, but so
far I haven't seen that technology used commercially.
After all Solar power has been used by a great many people for a
considerable period and noticeably it is not really a reliable source
of power. When the sun runs away and hides your lights go out.
>That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
>minds when solar power is discussed.
>
>>The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
>>without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
>>26,366 statue miles.
>
>Right. It got some headlines, too. But it wasn't solar powered. It
>isn't going to create a new awareness for gasoline. d8-)
>
Yup. New awareness. Well, they have a solar powered land racing, I
believe in Australia is, something like 3,000 miles long. And it has
been going on since 1987. Has there been new awareness in the car
industry?
>>
>>While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
>>innovative in aeronautics.
>
>This isn't about aeronautics.
>
>>
>>By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
>>be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
>
>Do you know who Bob Hatchek is? Google his name. He and I were editors
>together at _American Machinist_. I got a dose of model gliders every
>day at lunch, for years. <g>
Yup, he designed the "Hatchek Hook" which I saw illustrated in one of
the model magazines although when I was flying tow line gliders we
used a different, home made, rubber band powered hook.
--
cheers,
John B.
electricity flew? Good Lord, electric powered model airplanes have
been flying for some time now. It is not new!
Some time ago some blokes flew a human powered airplane across the
English Channel and everyone clapped their hands and shouted, but so
far I haven't seen that technology used commercially.
After all Solar power has been used by a great many people for a
considerable period and noticeably it is not really a reliable source
of power. When the sun runs away and hides your lights go out.
>That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
>minds when solar power is discussed.
>
>>The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
>>without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
>>26,366 statue miles.
>
>Right. It got some headlines, too. But it wasn't solar powered. It
>isn't going to create a new awareness for gasoline. d8-)
>
believe in Australia is, something like 3,000 miles long. And it has
been going on since 1987. Has there been new awareness in the car
industry?
>>
>>While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
>>innovative in aeronautics.
>
>This isn't about aeronautics.
>
>>
>>By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
>>be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
>
>Do you know who Bob Hatchek is? Google his name. He and I were editors
>together at _American Machinist_. I got a dose of model gliders every
>day at lunch, for years. <g>
the model magazines although when I was flying tow line gliders we
used a different, home made, rubber band powered hook.
--
cheers,
John B.
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 9:10:16 PM7/6/15
to
"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e66mpaddcegepe73k...@4ax.com...
> John B.
I worked as lithium battery tech for an electric vehicle engineer who
had helped build one of those solar cars, possibly Sunraycer. He
wasn't particularly excited about the practical value of solar powered
transportation.
news:e66mpaddcegepe73k...@4ax.com...
I worked as lithium battery tech for an electric vehicle engineer who
had helped build one of those solar cars, possibly Sunraycer. He
wasn't particularly excited about the practical value of solar powered
transportation.
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 9:13:17 PM7/6/15
to
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 07:42:19 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
I think the best thing to say about it at this point is that you and
Jim are good examples of why I got out of engineering school after two
years. <g> I'll leave you to judge that, but the accurate thing is
that I didn't like the mechanistic perspective.
Did you do quick-draws with your log-log duplex decitrig slide rules
in the hallway? Seeing that was the thing that pushed me over the top.
d8-)
It's a different world view. And it is consuming. And it is
inherently, irredeemably reductive.
I'm thankful that I can get a thrill out of the whole idea.
>
>Some time ago some blokes flew a human powered airplane across the
>English Channel and everyone clapped their hands and shouted, but so
>far I haven't seen that technology used commercially.
Commercialization of the technology had nothing whatsoever to do with
why people clapped.
>
>After all Solar power has been used by a great many people for a
>considerable period and noticeably it is not really a reliable source
>of power. When the sun runs away and hides your lights go out.
When the sun ran away from the airplane in question, the motors didn't
stop turning.
>
>>That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
>>minds when solar power is discussed.
>>
>>>The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
>>>without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
>>>26,366 statue miles.
>>
>>Right. It got some headlines, too. But it wasn't solar powered. It
>>isn't going to create a new awareness for gasoline. d8-)
>>
>Yup. New awareness. Well, they have a solar powered land racing, I
>believe in Australia is, something like 3,000 miles long. And it has
>been going on since 1987. Has there been new awareness in the car
>industry?
The car industry is full of engineers. d8-) Again, it was never the
point.
>
>>>
>>>While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
>>>innovative in aeronautics.
>>
>>This isn't about aeronautics.
>>
>>>
>>>By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
>>>be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
>>
>>Do you know who Bob Hatchek is? Google his name. He and I were editors
>>together at _American Machinist_. I got a dose of model gliders every
>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>
>Yup, he designed the "Hatchek Hook" which I saw illustrated in one of
>the model magazines although when I was flying tow line gliders we
>used a different, home made, rubber band powered hook.
Bob made his hooks on one of the old Unimats, the one with the round
ways. He used music wire for cutting tools and built a home-made
quick-change turret for it. It still is the only commercial production
I've seen performed on a Unimat.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim are good examples of why I got out of engineering school after two
years. <g> I'll leave you to judge that, but the accurate thing is
that I didn't like the mechanistic perspective.
Did you do quick-draws with your log-log duplex decitrig slide rules
in the hallway? Seeing that was the thing that pushed me over the top.
d8-)
It's a different world view. And it is consuming. And it is
inherently, irredeemably reductive.
I'm thankful that I can get a thrill out of the whole idea.
>
>Some time ago some blokes flew a human powered airplane across the
>English Channel and everyone clapped their hands and shouted, but so
>far I haven't seen that technology used commercially.
why people clapped.
>
>After all Solar power has been used by a great many people for a
>considerable period and noticeably it is not really a reliable source
>of power. When the sun runs away and hides your lights go out.
stop turning.
>
>>That's why it got headlines. That's what will stick in some people's
>>minds when solar power is discussed.
>>
>>>The Rutan Voyager flew around the world in 1986
>>>without stopping or refueling and was airborne for 216+ hours and flew
>>>26,366 statue miles.
>>
>>Right. It got some headlines, too. But it wasn't solar powered. It
>>isn't going to create a new awareness for gasoline. d8-)
>>
>Yup. New awareness. Well, they have a solar powered land racing, I
>believe in Australia is, something like 3,000 miles long. And it has
>been going on since 1987. Has there been new awareness in the car
>industry?
point.
>
>>>
>>>While it certainly is a feat it isn't anything really new or
>>>innovative in aeronautics.
>>
>>This isn't about aeronautics.
>>
>>>
>>>By the way, the record for a model airplane - with no power - seems to
>>>be 36h 3mn 19s :-)
>>
>>Do you know who Bob Hatchek is? Google his name. He and I were editors
>>together at _American Machinist_. I got a dose of model gliders every
>>day at lunch, for years. <g>
>
>Yup, he designed the "Hatchek Hook" which I saw illustrated in one of
>the model magazines although when I was flying tow line gliders we
>used a different, home made, rubber band powered hook.
ways. He used music wire for cutting tools and built a home-made
quick-change turret for it. It still is the only commercial production
I've seen performed on a Unimat.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
Jul 6, 2015, 9:33:18 PM7/6/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:om8mpatb19j9he6ng...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 07:42:19 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I think the best thing to say about it at this point is that you and
> Jim are good examples of why I got out of engineering school after
> two
> years. <g> I'll leave you to judge that, but the accurate thing is
> that I didn't like the mechanistic perspective.
>
> Did you do quick-draws with your log-log duplex decitrig slide rules
> in the hallway? Seeing that was the thing that pushed me over the
> top.
> d8-)
>
> It's a different world view. And it is consuming. And it is
> inherently, irredeemably reductive.
>
> I'm thankful that I can get a thrill out of the whole idea.
>
> --
> wrote:
>
>
> I think the best thing to say about it at this point is that you and
> Jim are good examples of why I got out of engineering school after
> two
> years. <g> I'll leave you to judge that, but the accurate thing is
> that I didn't like the mechanistic perspective.
>
> Did you do quick-draws with your log-log duplex decitrig slide rules
> in the hallway? Seeing that was the thing that pushed me over the
> top.
> d8-)
>
> It's a different world view. And it is consuming. And it is
> inherently, irredeemably reductive.
>
> I'm thankful that I can get a thrill out of the whole idea.
>
> Ed Huntress
You scorn when I quote hard science, and equally when I quote epic
poetry. Where is your little comfort zone in between them?
Ed Huntress
Jul 6, 2015, 9:42:54 PM7/6/15
to
your quotes of epic poetry. Although I enjoy some of the great epic
poems, I would not, personally, quote any of them to make a point of
any kind I can think of.
If you've noticed, 90% of what I scorn is scornfulness.
--
Ed Huntress
pyotr filipivich
Jul 6, 2015, 11:45:59 PM7/6/15
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sun, 05 Jul 2015 23:54:55 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>walk up and down the aisle to their seats in a grounded Gooney Bird.
>>>And I'd love to fly as a crewman in a Spooky version.
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFVuG2KQqk Arr, arr, arr!
I didn't get a chance to fly in one, but there was a Ju-52 tri
motor on the base in Spain. Very hard to think of those as "big
Airliners" - even in 1972.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>>>>Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>>>>commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>>>>plane?
>>>
>>>Not since the dementia hit him several years ago, no.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd love to watch some of today's commercial passengers _attempt_ to
>>>>Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>>>>commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>>>>plane?
>>>
>>>Not since the dementia hit him several years ago, no.
>>>
>>>
>>>walk up and down the aisle to their seats in a grounded Gooney Bird.
>>>And I'd love to fly as a crewman in a Spooky version.
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFVuG2KQqk Arr, arr, arr!
I didn't get a chance to fly in one, but there was a Ju-52 tri
motor on the base in Spain. Very hard to think of those as "big
Airliners" - even in 1972.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
Jim Wilkins
Jul 7, 2015, 6:30:50 AM7/7/15
to
news:l5bmpapldf0bk6iu2...@4ax.com...
On 6/15/2015 at 10:38PM you responded:
/*
>These were once considered appropriate for the 6th grade:
>
>http://www.bartleby.com/360/7/158.html
"Appropriate" for what? Background noise?
*/
-jsw
/*
>These were once considered appropriate for the 6th grade:
>
>http://www.bartleby.com/360/7/158.html
"Appropriate" for what? Background noise?
*/
-jsw
Ed Huntress
Jul 7, 2015, 8:28:02 AM7/7/15
to
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 06:31:27 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
That wasn't scorn for "Horatius at the Bridge." That was scorn for the
idea that it was "appropriate" for the 6th grade -- ever.
--
Ed Huntress
idea that it was "appropriate" for the 6th grade -- ever.
--
Ed Huntress
John B.
Jul 7, 2015, 9:05:54 AM7/7/15
to
California. Met a bunch of both owners and builders and I don't
remember any of them worrying about any practical value. Mostly they
talked about ways to cheap without getting caught :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
John B.
Jul 7, 2015, 9:22:03 AM7/7/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:13:13 -0400, Ed Huntress
Of course not and I thing I said that it was a feat. But a practical
one?
>>
>>After all Solar power has been used by a great many people for a
>>considerable period and noticeably it is not really a reliable source
>>of power. When the sun runs away and hides your lights go out.
>
>When the sun ran away from the airplane in question, the motors didn't
>stop turning.
Hopefully not, but they had a very strict schedule of flying above any
cloud cover to charge in daylight hours and at a lower altitude at
night. Had they encountered high altitude cloud coverage they might
have has a different story to tell.
cheers,
John B.
one?
>>
>>After all Solar power has been used by a great many people for a
>>considerable period and noticeably it is not really a reliable source
>>of power. When the sun runs away and hides your lights go out.
>
>When the sun ran away from the airplane in question, the motors didn't
>stop turning.
cloud cover to charge in daylight hours and at a lower altitude at
night. Had they encountered high altitude cloud coverage they might
have has a different story to tell.
John B.
Ed Huntress
Jul 7, 2015, 10:11:38 AM7/7/15
to
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:05:50 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:
And, as a former SCCA and CART tech inspector, I probably caught more
violators in FF than in any other class. We called it the "Tyro"
class. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
violators in FF than in any other class. We called it the "Tyro"
class. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
Jul 7, 2015, 10:13:33 AM7/7/15
to
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:21:59 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
Of course not. Practicality was never an issue.
Jim Wilkins
Jul 7, 2015, 12:46:00 PM7/7/15
to
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:o5hnpal1deo2rtu5b...@4ax.com...
discussion of a sense of duty to one's country or its politicians. We
had been following and writing essays on the Cold War current events
of the 1950's and had a fair idea of what a soldier might have to do,
like invade a bikini-filled beach in Lebanon or bail out over Russia.
In 7th grade I was reading Roman history in Latin.
-jsw
mog...@hotmail.com
Jul 7, 2015, 12:59:36 PM7/7/15
to
Ed Huntress
Jul 7, 2015, 1:16:49 PM7/7/15
to
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 12:46:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
I'll surmise that it required a lot of background reading:
---------------------------------
And plainly and more plainly
Now might the burghers know,
By port and vest, by horse and crest,
Each warlike Lucumo:
There Cilnius of Arretium
On his fleet roan was seen;
And Astur of the fourfold shield,
Girt with the brand none else may wield;
Tolumnius with the belt of gold,
And dark Verbenna from the hold
By reedy Thrasymene.
--------------------------------
---------------------------------
And plainly and more plainly
Now might the burghers know,
By port and vest, by horse and crest,
Each warlike Lucumo:
There Cilnius of Arretium
On his fleet roan was seen;
And Astur of the fourfold shield,
Girt with the brand none else may wield;
Tolumnius with the belt of gold,
And dark Verbenna from the hold
By reedy Thrasymene.
--------------------------------
Jim Wilkins
Jul 7, 2015, 3:42:08 PM7/7/15
to
news:o82opalgacu96b1hg...@4ax.com...
The teacher answered any questions. IIRC the fight made us forget the
preliminary details.
I had more trouble with "The Enemy Below" because I didn't know terms
like Depth Charge and Diving Plane. In the book a front diving plane
slices into the destroyer below the waterline as they collide. In the
real battle a large wave dropped the USS Borie onto the U-405.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Borie_(DD-215)
"This was a unique battle: unlike most other modern naval battles, it
was decided by ramming and small arms fire at extremely close range."
-jsw
preliminary details.
I had more trouble with "The Enemy Below" because I didn't know terms
like Depth Charge and Diving Plane. In the book a front diving plane
slices into the destroyer below the waterline as they collide. In the
real battle a large wave dropped the USS Borie onto the U-405.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Borie_(DD-215)
"This was a unique battle: unlike most other modern naval battles, it
was decided by ramming and small arms fire at extremely close range."
-jsw
Gunner Asch
Jul 7, 2015, 7:34:05 PM7/7/15
to
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 15:42:44 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
Some hardcore bastards on both boats. My salute to both crews!
Gunner
Gunner
Bob Engelhardt
Jul 7, 2015, 7:49:35 PM7/7/15
to
On 7/7/2015 3:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> ...
it was sad to read that after abandoning the Borie: "... three officers
and 24 enlisted men were lost during the rescue operation. Hutchins
reported, "Many of the lost were just unable to get over the side" of
the two rescuing destroyers."
Shit, couldn't the rescuing crew have thrown them ropes & pulled them over?
> ...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Borie_(DD-215)
> "This was a unique battle: unlike most other modern naval battles, it
> was decided by ramming and small arms fire at extremely close range."
That's an amazing story. No Borie crewmen were lost in the fight, but
> "This was a unique battle: unlike most other modern naval battles, it
> was decided by ramming and small arms fire at extremely close range."
it was sad to read that after abandoning the Borie: "... three officers
and 24 enlisted men were lost during the rescue operation. Hutchins
reported, "Many of the lost were just unable to get over the side" of
the two rescuing destroyers."
Shit, couldn't the rescuing crew have thrown them ropes & pulled them over?
Jim Wilkins
Jul 7, 2015, 8:30:02 PM7/7/15
to
"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mnhog...@news4.newsguy.com...
This says they were knocked inconscious or drowned:
http://destroyerhistory.org/flushdeck/ussborie/
The waves were running to 20 feet by then.
-jsw
news:mnhog...@news4.newsguy.com...
http://destroyerhistory.org/flushdeck/ussborie/
The waves were running to 20 feet by then.
-jsw
Jim Wilkins
Jul 7, 2015, 8:44:07 PM7/7/15
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mnhqri$qbe$1...@dont-email.me...
This has more detail:
http://www.volnation.com/forum/pub/205376-fight-death-uss-borie-31-october.html
news:mnhqri$qbe$1...@dont-email.me...
http://www.volnation.com/forum/pub/205376-fight-death-uss-borie-31-october.html
John B.
Jul 7, 2015, 11:24:41 PM7/7/15
to
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 10:11:35 -0400, Ed Huntress
At Palmdale one time a FF went stuttering and stammering out of the
pits onto the track and someone said something like "Oh, that is old
Jack, he is really fast", and I said something like, "Probably, he
certainly has a cam in that thing", and the first guy says, "how did
you know?"
I've always suspected that a large percentage of the "also ran" had
very little technical knowledge :-)
There were a couple of guys that were trying to get into the chassis
making business - at that time nearly all FF chassis came from England
- and built a really sleek car. The first FF I saw with the radiators
mounted outboard ahead of the wheels. It was fast, really fast. They
entered it in a number of races and it always would be several times
faster than the rest of the FF pack.... but they never finished a
race. Would pull off into the pits and set out the last lap. I suspect
that the generated a lot of orders that way.
Of course, cars that didn't finish weren't inspected :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
pits onto the track and someone said something like "Oh, that is old
Jack, he is really fast", and I said something like, "Probably, he
certainly has a cam in that thing", and the first guy says, "how did
you know?"
I've always suspected that a large percentage of the "also ran" had
very little technical knowledge :-)
There were a couple of guys that were trying to get into the chassis
making business - at that time nearly all FF chassis came from England
- and built a really sleek car. The first FF I saw with the radiators
mounted outboard ahead of the wheels. It was fast, really fast. They
entered it in a number of races and it always would be several times
faster than the rest of the FF pack.... but they never finished a
race. Would pull off into the pits and set out the last lap. I suspect
that the generated a lot of orders that way.
Of course, cars that didn't finish weren't inspected :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Ed Huntress
Jul 7, 2015, 11:35:44 PM7/7/15
to
On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:24:36 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
Right. One of the tricks in FF was to sneak in some Teflon main
bearings. They came from a supplier in the UK, where they were legal
for some kind of sedan racing.
Horsepower was so close in that class that just that little bit of
reduced friction could make a winner.
BTW, I drove an FF around the track a few times at Lime Rock Park, but
I never raced one. It was the most fun you could have with your pants
on -- like a go-cart with suspension and a real engine.
--
Ed Huntress
bearings. They came from a supplier in the UK, where they were legal
for some kind of sedan racing.
Horsepower was so close in that class that just that little bit of
reduced friction could make a winner.
BTW, I drove an FF around the track a few times at Lime Rock Park, but
I never raced one. It was the most fun you could have with your pants
on -- like a go-cart with suspension and a real engine.
--
Ed Huntress
Larry Jaques
Jul 8, 2015, 12:47:13 AM7/8/15
to
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 11:33:57 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 11:36:48 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
><BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>On 7/6/2015 7:43 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> ... The skipper of an ocean racer
>>> needed rear view mirrors in case he was being overtaken by a faster US
>>> nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
>>
>>That would be a great video: a long helicopter shot of this sleek racer
>>slicing through the water; zoom in on the racer to see its on-the-edge
>>trim, its heel, and the spray coming over as it sizzles along; the
>>essence of speed. From on-board the racer pan over to the discernible
>>shape of an approaching aircraft carrier. Stay on the carrier as it
>>nears the racer, growing larger and larger until it fills the frame,
>>dwarfing the racer as it passes. Then back to the chopper for the
>>opening view, but with the carrier pulling away and the racer looking
>>puny. I love it.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>
>That..would be way cool!!
>^ 5!!!!
They had something like that in the new movie, Battleship. Of course,
the puny racer was the USS Missouri and the carrier was the
all-purpose alien starship/aircraft carrier. GREAT movie fun.
--
We are always the same age inside.
-- Gertrude Stein
wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 11:36:48 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
><BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>On 7/6/2015 7:43 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> ... The skipper of an ocean racer
>>> needed rear view mirrors in case he was being overtaken by a faster US
>>> nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
>>
>>That would be a great video: a long helicopter shot of this sleek racer
>>slicing through the water; zoom in on the racer to see its on-the-edge
>>trim, its heel, and the spray coming over as it sizzles along; the
>>essence of speed. From on-board the racer pan over to the discernible
>>shape of an approaching aircraft carrier. Stay on the carrier as it
>>nears the racer, growing larger and larger until it fills the frame,
>>dwarfing the racer as it passes. Then back to the chopper for the
>>opening view, but with the carrier pulling away and the racer looking
>>puny. I love it.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>
>That..would be way cool!!
>^ 5!!!!
the puny racer was the USS Missouri and the carrier was the
all-purpose alien starship/aircraft carrier. GREAT movie fun.
--
We are always the same age inside.
-- Gertrude Stein
Larry Jaques
Jul 8, 2015, 12:51:47 AM7/8/15
to
On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 08:51:37 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:mtmkpa1q0qik54kvl...@4ax.com...
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:56:38 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 10:47:30 -0400, Ed Huntress
>>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 07:07:47 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 10:47:30 -0400, Ed Huntress
>>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 07:07:47 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 11:01:04 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>><murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
>>>>><murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> There were many pivotal developments in aircraft, about any one of
>> which we could debate their "significance." Amidst the engineering,
>> I
>> think we lose sight, however, of accomplishments that reflect a new
>> awareness on the part of the general public. A race winner may catch
>> attention for a moment. But an accomplishment like
>> continent-to-continent nonstop transatlantic flight (as opposed to,
>> say, island-to-island <g>) provoked a new awareness. Breaking the
>> sound "barrier" provoked a new awareness. Flying a manned aircraft
>> on
>> solar power, across much of the Pacific in one hop, provokes a new
>> awareness.
>>
>> --
>> which we could debate their "significance." Amidst the engineering,
>> I
>> think we lose sight, however, of accomplishments that reflect a new
>> awareness on the part of the general public. A race winner may catch
>> attention for a moment. But an accomplishment like
>> continent-to-continent nonstop transatlantic flight (as opposed to,
>> say, island-to-island <g>) provoked a new awareness. Breaking the
>> sound "barrier" provoked a new awareness. Flying a manned aircraft
>> on
>> solar power, across much of the Pacific in one hop, provokes a new
>> awareness.
>>
>> Ed Huntress
>
>We are flooded with "awareness" by an advertising industry whose main
>priority is selling its own relevance.
Precisely. Which is why I gave up all teevee and broadcast radio a
decade ago.
John B.
Jul 8, 2015, 7:12:56 AM7/8/15
to
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 23:35:40 -0400, Ed Huntress
Yes, kind of fun. We occasionally took a car to Palmdale - in those
days you could rent use of the track - and I made a few laps in one
occasionally. I would roar around for a lap or so thinking I was
really the top dog and pull back into the pit area and the owner would
say something like, "is the car all right? It was such a slow lap" :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
days you could rent use of the track - and I made a few laps in one
occasionally. I would roar around for a lap or so thinking I was
really the top dog and pull back into the pit area and the owner would
say something like, "is the car all right? It was such a slow lap" :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Ed Huntress
Jul 8, 2015, 7:40:26 AM7/8/15
to
On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 18:12:50 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
<g> I know that feeling. I had a good sense of relative speed in my MG
Midget and my Alfa Romeo Giulietta. In the FF (and even more in a
F440), I felt like I was flying, even though I wasn't pushing hard.
But the lap times said otherwise. <g>
If you haven't driven open-wheeled cars very much, and I've only done
it on three occassions, carrying speed on fast bends is OK, but diving
deep into turns is a little freaky. I think it's because you're not
used to seeing the wheels, and doing so is not conducive to a sense of
security.
--
Ed Huntress
Midget and my Alfa Romeo Giulietta. In the FF (and even more in a
F440), I felt like I was flying, even though I wasn't pushing hard.
But the lap times said otherwise. <g>
If you haven't driven open-wheeled cars very much, and I've only done
it on three occassions, carrying speed on fast bends is OK, but diving
deep into turns is a little freaky. I think it's because you're not
used to seeing the wheels, and doing so is not conducive to a sense of
security.
--
Ed Huntress
mog...@hotmail.com
Jul 8, 2015, 7:19:34 PM7/8/15
to
> > We
> >had been following and writing essays on the Cold War current events
> >of the 1950's and had a fair idea of what a soldier might have to do,
> >like invade a bikini-filled beach in Lebanon or bail out over Russia.
> >
> >In 7th grade I was reading Roman history in Latin.
Martin Eastburn
Jul 8, 2015, 10:57:59 PM7/8/15
to
I flew the C-47 across North Texas. It was fun to fly but
a real pain when the black clay was plowed for cotton or crops.
Heat thermals rising on the black and normal off grass/trees.
We were hauling cargo from air base to air base. Sometimes just a runway.
When living in the south Pacific, C-47's were used to take workers
from our island to others 50 and 70 miles away. Years later, the 50
mile were done with copters and the planes picked up longer ranges.
Martin
On 7/5/2015 9:07 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 11:01:04 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
> just before retiring.
>
> --
> Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
> whereas I am merely in disguise.
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
a real pain when the black clay was plowed for cotton or crops.
Heat thermals rising on the black and normal off grass/trees.
We were hauling cargo from air base to air base. Sometimes just a runway.
When living in the south Pacific, C-47's were used to take workers
from our island to others 50 and 70 miles away. Years later, the 50
mile were done with copters and the planes picked up longer ranges.
Martin
On 7/5/2015 9:07 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 11:01:04 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> news:15ifpa9f3nn0gdc35...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 07:28:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>>> http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>>>
>>> In what sense?
>>>
>>>> "Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>>> exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>>> Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>>> as
>>>> tourists?"
>>>>
>>>> First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>>> airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>>> of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>>> British winner was made of wood.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>> Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>> commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>> plane?
>
> Not since the dementia hit him several years ago, no.
>
>
>>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> This is the sort of accomplishment that has real significance:
>>>> http://airminded.org/2009/10/23/the-great-air-race/
>>>
>>> In what sense?
>>>
>>>> "Could any more striking contrast be imagined than the weariness and
>>>> exhaustion of Scott and Black and the pleasant excitement of
>>>> Parmentier's passengers, who flew in the world's most notable race
>>>> as
>>>> tourists?"
>>>>
>>>> First place went to a custom British racer, second to a standard US
>>>> airliner which stopped for passengers. The DC-2 was an early version
>>>> of the classic DC-3, the 247D its similar Boeing competitor. The
>>>> British winner was made of wood.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>> Are you really unable to see the significance of an American
>> commercial airliner nearly beating a purpose-built British racing
>> plane?
>
> Not since the dementia hit him several years ago, no.
>
>
> I'd love to watch some of today's commercial passengers _attempt_ to
> walk up and down the aisle to their seats in a grounded Gooney Bird.
> And I'd love to fly as a crewman in a Spooky version.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFVuG2KQqk Arr, arr, arr!
>
> Dad flew Gooney Birds (somewhere) and C-123s (over Nam) in the 60s,
> walk up and down the aisle to their seats in a grounded Gooney Bird.
> And I'd love to fly as a crewman in a Spooky version.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFVuG2KQqk Arr, arr, arr!
>
> just before retiring.
>
> --
> Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
> whereas I am merely in disguise.
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
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