Short Hood SA200 Welder Questions
Vernon Tuck
as old as I am. And I'm proud to say it's even in worse shape!
I don't have a vintage. But I'm a 49er and it's probably from the
early 50s. It appears to have a 6 volt generator and starter as well
as a magneto. The engine is a Continental F162.
My wife has just begun taking three courses at our local junior
college: Math, Welding, and Engine Building.
While this welder cannot help her with her math it WILL serve as her
class projects for both the welding and engine courses since the sheet
metal and even some of the structural frame and trailer it's on, have
some rust.
I don't have a clue how long it's been since the thing last ran.
However, I've dumped some marvel mystery oil into it and have gotten
the engine to loosen up enough to turn it over.
I am interested in receiving opinions about how to best proceed with
the restoration. I have always preferred to know going into a project
what components have given up the ghost and which ones may continue in
service.
I believe this is important so as to be able to choose your battles
wisely.
To that end, I'd like to get the thing started. Not only for the
goose bump factor but also to satisfy myself that the dynamo ain't
dead dead dead.
Since I don't have a 6 volt battery I'm wondering if I could just
start it with a 12 volt battery and not hook up the generator?
Also, how do you go about testing a magneto? No self destructive
testing, please. I get enough of that at my chiropractor's...
Once I determine the magneto and generator are ok I'll feel a lot
better about hurling money at the engine, gas tank, radiator, and all
the rest.
I would really like to talk about dis mit Ben Dare and Dunn Datt.
Thank you for your consideration.
Vernon
JTMcC
"Vernon Tuck" <vt...@tucklings.com> wrote in message
news:dddf5c66.04012...@posting.google.com...
Don't take my word for it but I don't think you will damage the generator by
cranking it with a 12 volt battery, but like you said, disconnect the
generator and let er rip, the starter might turn pretty fast tho.
>
> Also, how do you go about testing a magneto? No self destructive
> testing, please. I get enough of that at my chiropractor's...
Put a timing light on one of the ignition wires, or, pull one of the
ignition wires off a spark plug (or pull a spark plug, hook it to the plug
wire, ground it to the block)and hold it about a quarter inch from the block
while turning the engine over, watch for a spark to jump from the wire to
the block. Or, pull the mag, put it in a vise, hold the lead about a quarter
of an inch away from the body of the mag and turn the input shaft. It should
turn against quite a bit of resistance for about half a turn, then spin free
for about another half. These mags are pretty reliable, parts are redily
available at the local parts store. You probably should replace the points
and condenser and cap and rotor. The wire coming off the terminal on the mag
case is the kill switch, ground the wire and no ignition. Lot's of times
folks will put 12 volt power to the terminal thinking they will get fire
that way, don't try that. It will overheat the spring on the points and make
it no longer "springey".
Those old short hood machines carry a large amount of cool factor, I keep
threatening to buy an old '55 from a friend of mine but I've got too many as
it is. Good luck bringing the old girl back to productive life!
JTMcC.
Thomas Kendrick
system?
Before spending a dime on it, haul it to the nearest welding
supply/repair shop to find out whether replacement parts are available
- either to replace the 6-volt or upgrade to 12-volt.
On 22 Jan 2004 15:53:02 -0800, vt...@tucklings.com (Vernon Tuck)
wrote:
Thomas Kendrick
This guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2590755267&category=45031
says that he has a supply of hard-to-find Lincoln parts, such as the
rebuilt starter being advertised in this item.
Good luck,
Tom
On 22 Jan 2004 15:53:02 -0800, vt...@tucklings.com (Vernon Tuck)
wrote:
>Some time ago I acquired an old Lincoln welder. It's probably nearly
JTMcC
"Thomas Kendrick" <tken...@panaband.com> wrote in message
news:8qq010l0h669k0rjm...@4ax.com...
> Is the intent to leave it as a 6-volt system or convert to a 12-volt
> system?
> Before spending a dime on it, haul it to the nearest welding
> supply/repair shop to find out whether replacement parts are available
> - either to replace the 6-volt or upgrade to 12-volt.
I think everything on those machines is available. Most people convert over
to a PC board idle control, and later model spin on oil filter. Both cheap
and easy mod's. Quite a few of these old SA 200's are still working away, in
professional use.
JTMcC.
Bill Bright
"JTMcC" <firstrate...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:2o_Pb.8580$HZ....@news02.roc.ny...
Troublesome parts on a shorthood, or any lincoln sa200. Mag, carb, high
idler.
Pipeline welders love shorthood lincolns. Some parts are not carried
anymore for the older machines. But where theres a will theres a way. Also
disconnect the voltage regulator if you are going to start with 12v. Dont
crank for extended times or you will most likely burn up the starter.
Bill
Randy Zimmerman
visual. There should be an end cover to take off? I would not touch any
gap adjustments just check to see there is no rust on the internals.
Bar the engine over to see if you have an impulse coupling rigged on the
mag. As you bar it over it should wind up then suddenly spin forward. You
can't see it happening but you will hear a definite clicking sound as the
coupling suddenly releases to give the mag a spin. Magnetos have the
weakest spark at lowest speed. This type of coupling gives a hot spark at
start then locks solid at speed. If you do not have an impulse coupling
then you need a relatively high rate of engine turning to create an adequate
spark.
I would pull the plugs and spin the engine on 12 V. Disconnect your
generator and regulator.
Check for a spark at the spark plug lead held near the engine block.
This little exercise does two things. It gives you a chance to check for a
spark and primes the oil galleries that likely are bone dry.
If you have a spark then you only need a bit of compression and some
fuel. Oh yeah ... People don't realize that to shut a mag off you ground it
out. In effect your ignition switch is on when you want the engine to die.
Mags are bullet proof. that's why they are used in aircraft engines.
Usually new points and a condenser are all that is needed once in a blue
moon.
Sometimes the welding generator after years loses its residual
magnetism. As a result it cannot produce enough juice to power the field
windings. Do a LOT of research before shorting the leads to re-excite the
generator. You can screw things up if you do it wrong. Ditto for the
generator that services your engine battery.
The other problem is the welding generator brushes. Older units have a
cover that you can remove and check the length and condition of the brushes.
In the olden days you could purchase a stick of dressing material. With the
generator spinning you press the stick against the commutator. It dressed
the commutator and brushes to make a perfect match. I am sure an industrial
electrician would know where to score some.
I have an old Hobart and if I haven't run it for a year I notice the
first welding rod just doesn't put out the amperage but as the brushes rub
the oxide off the commutator I am up to power and the old thing saves my
bacon again.
Randy
"Vernon Tuck" <vt...@tucklings.com> wrote in message
news:dddf5c66.04012...@posting.google.com...
Vernon Tuck
Thanks, everybody! As to the question about whether to leave it as a
6 volt system I probably will if everything works in keeping with the
"if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy.
If the weather's decent this weekend I hope to put all your much
appreciated counsel to work and see if I can get a peep out of her.
Some time ago I bought a replacement carburetor. I hope it's the
right one. If so I might even get it to start and run.
As to the guy advertising on ebay I ran across him last night but
haven't contacted him.
If anything exciting happens I'll post it Sunday night.
Later,
Vernon
Vernon Tuck
their on-line parts information site.
As I believe some of y'all mentioned Lincoln no longer supports this
model.
However, I am not sure what this means in practical terms and have
emailed them asking 'em to explain.
For example, somebody here mentioned that the idler control can be
upgraded, ditto the starting/charging system.
But does anybody know what the practical significance of this is?
I'd hate to spend a lot of money rebuilding the engine only to
discover the power generator unit is dead and not repairable.
Is anybody out there knowledgeable of what the dead ends may be?
Thanks!
Vernon
Bill Bright
even if you dont want to spend money to get the idle up working correctly ,
you can always manually do that. So long as the armature and exciter etc is
not missing you are good to go. I am working on my own electronic idle up
circuit. I have got all the parts, just need to wire it up and test it.
The idle up kit sold online is about 400.00 . I will have about 40.00 in
parts in mine.
Where are you located?
Billl
Vernon Tuck
Hello Bill,
I'm responding to your post dated Jan. 24, which I only saw for the
first time a moment ago.
I genuinely appreciate the encouragement. For a little while I got
cold feet about spending a ton of money on the old girl only to
discover she might be irrepairable.
Quite some time ago, on ebay, I bought what I THOUGHT was an
appropriate replacement carburetor for the engine.
Only last weekend did I dig it out. It turns out that it's not the
same but merely of a similar design.
Until I discovered this I had intended to attempt to start it last
Sunday. Now I'm wondering where to find another carburetor.
Of course I can attempt to rebuild that one. But it's pretty rough
looking.
I have an old International Harvestor (Farmall) Cub tractor which has
a similar carburetor. From what I've been able to tell the engine is
a Continental also. But apparently it's a "C60". Since the
designation is different I assume it's different from the F162 which
drives the welder.
Said tractor is at some property I have about 25 miles from here and I
haven't found time to go take a closer look. But I'd sure like to
find a new old stock carburetor somewhere.
Otherwise, I guess I'll try to find a gasket kit.
Anyway, that's where things are at. My wife has started an engine
building course at the local junior college. Presumably the welder
engine rebuild will be her class project.
I forgot to mention in my email that we live in Brenham, Texas. About
half way between Houston and Austin. About 45 miles southwest of
Bryan/College Station.
Take care.
Vernon
Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
>"Bill Bright" <willia...@cableone.net> wrote in message news:<1016868...@corp.supernews.com>...
>> Generally you will be able to get the parts necessary to get it running. and
>> even if you dont want to spend money to get the idle up working correctly ,
>> you can always manually do that. So long as the armature and exciter etc is
>> not missing you are good to go. I am working on my own electronic idle up
>> circuit. I have got all the parts, just need to wire it up and test it.
>> The idle up kit sold online is about 400.00 . I will have about 40.00 in
>> parts in mine.
>>
>> Where are you located?
<snip>
>I genuinely appreciate the encouragement. For a little while I got
>cold feet about spending a ton of money on the old girl only to
>discover she might be irrepairable.
>
>Quite some time ago, on ebay, I bought what I THOUGHT was an
>appropriate replacement carburetor for the engine.
>
>Only last weekend did I dig it out. It turns out that it's not the
>same but merely of a similar design.
>
>Until I discovered this I had intended to attempt to start it last
>Sunday. Now I'm wondering where to find another carburetor.
>
>Of course I can attempt to rebuild that one. But it's pretty rough
>looking.
You'd be surprised what you can do with a "rough" carb - find a
rebuild kit and tear into it. If you have a NAPA or other Real Auto
Parts Store that deals with power equipment all day, they'll probably
have the right carb kit identified and in your hands within a day.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
Gary Coffman
>appropriate replacement carburetor for the engine.
>
>Only last weekend did I dig it out. It turns out that it's not the
>same but merely of a similar design.
>
>Until I discovered this I had intended to attempt to start it last
>Sunday. Now I'm wondering where to find another carburetor.
>
>Of course I can attempt to rebuild that one. But it's pretty rough
>looking.
>
>I have an old International Harvestor (Farmall) Cub tractor which has
>a similar carburetor. From what I've been able to tell the engine is
>a Continental also. But apparently it's a "C60". Since the
>designation is different I assume it's different from the F162 which
>drives the welder.
>
>Said tractor is at some property I have about 25 miles from here and I
>haven't found time to go take a closer look. But I'd sure like to
>find a new old stock carburetor somewhere.
Try Valu-Bilt, www.valu-bilt.com
They have new and rebuilt carbs for nearly any old tractor engine.
Gary
JTMcC
news:<1016868...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Generally you will be able to get the parts necessary to get it running.
and
> > even if you dont want to spend money to get the idle up working
correctly ,
> > you can always manually do that. So long as the armature and exciter
etc is
> > not missing you are good to go. I am working on my own electronic idle
up
> > circuit. I have got all the parts, just need to wire it up and test it.
> > The idle up kit sold online is about 400.00 . I will have about 40.00 in
> > parts in mine.
> >
> > Where are you located?
> >
> > Billl
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> I'm responding to your post dated Jan. 24, which I only saw for the
> first time a moment ago.
>
> I genuinely appreciate the encouragement. For a little while I got
> cold feet about spending a ton of money on the old girl only to
> discover she might be irrepairable.
There is nothing on that machine that is unrepairable, I know of many that
see hard pipeline/oil field use regularly.
>
> Quite some time ago, on ebay, I bought what I THOUGHT was an
> appropriate replacement carburetor for the engine.
>
> Only last weekend did I dig it out. It turns out that it's not the
> same but merely of a similar design.
>
> Until I discovered this I had intended to attempt to start it last
> Sunday. Now I'm wondering where to find another carburetor.
>
> Of course I can attempt to rebuild that one. But it's pretty rough
> looking.
It is probably a Marvel- Schnebly? rebuild kits atre available at any local
parts house that deals with industrial moters. Most if not all parts that
wear out will be included. M-S built many an airplane carburator. Forget
about scabbing the tractor carb.
>
> I have an old International Harvestor (Farmall) Cub tractor which has
> a similar carburetor. From what I've been able to tell the engine is
> a Continental also. But apparently it's a "C60". Since the
> designation is different I assume it's different from the F162 which
> drives the welder.
>
> Said tractor is at some property I have about 25 miles from here and I
> haven't found time to go take a closer look. But I'd sure like to
> find a new old stock carburetor somewhere.
>
> Otherwise, I guess I'll try to find a gasket kit.
>
> Anyway, that's where things are at. My wife has started an engine
> building course at the local junior college. Presumably the welder
> engine rebuild will be her class project.
>
> I forgot to mention in my email that we live in Brenham, Texas. About
> half way between Houston and Austin. About 45 miles southwest of
> Bryan/College Station.
>
> Take care.
> Vernon
For information and parts for your machine, you can talk to Wendell at the
Bakersfield, CA. Praxair store, or Chris Blanchard in Oddessa TX at Chris
Blanchard Welding Machine Repair (?). Both have extensive experience with
these machines. You might want to tell them you are using the machine for
home use as opposed to production field welding, that way you can probably
continue on your happy way with both the original 6 volt system, and the
original vacume idle control.
regards,
JTMcC.
Gunner
Wendell is a good ol boy, last I talked to him. They had a pretty good
boneyard out back.
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
Vernon Tuck
continue to be - amazed by the people here.
Thanks!
VT
Bloodypanda
I have a 1946 short hood is there a an option to put an electric starter on it
--
posted from
http://www.polytechforum.com/welding/short-hood-sa200-welder-questions-28016-.htm
using PolyTechForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to
sci.engr.joining.welding and other engineering groups