What government shutdown means to you

[Gunner Asch]

SHUTDOWN 2013
What government closure means for you
Minor headache for some, major hassle for others


WASHINGTON – Would most people really see a difference in their daily
lives if the government shuts down?

Maybe not, judging by various surveys of services that would be
affected.

Social Security checks would still be mailed, Medicare and
unemployment benefits would keep coming and food stamps would still be
issued.

The military would still be up and running, and Congress passed
legislation Monday to ensure pay for the military’s 1.4 million active
duty personnel, although the Pentagon could furlough 400,000 civilian
workers and delay training and contracts.

The mail would still be delivered because the U.S. Postal Service runs
on income from stamps and other postal fees.

Federal meat inspections should continue as usual. The FDA would still
issue high-risk recalls but might suspend routine safety inspections.

School lunches and breakfasts would still be served.

Air travel would continue as federal air traffic controllers would
remain on the job. Security screening should not take much longer,
because “the majority of our officers who screen passengers/luggage
will remain on the job,” TSA spokesman Ross Feinstein tweeted. Federal
inspectors would still enforce safety rules.

Those who leave the country would still be able to get back home, as
most U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers are expected to
remain on duty.

Embassies and consulates overseas would stay open to provide services
to American citizens. The processing of passport and visa applications
are paid for by fees, so they would continue. The State Department
warns that consular operations abroad would only remain open as long
as “there are sufficient fees to support operations.”

Also unaffected would be services for national security and human
safety, border security, coastal protection, law enforcement,
counter-terrorism efforts, federal prisons and Amtrak service.

The Justice Department would remain almost fully staffed. Federal
courts would stay in session.

IRS audit appointments would be canceled, but taxes would still have
to be paid.

The National Weather Service would continue forecasting and issuing
warnings and the National Hurricane Center would keep tracking storms.

Veterans would still be able to visit hospitals, get mental health
counseling and have prescriptions filled at VA health clinics.

National parks, monuments and museums would close, the Census Bureau
would stop collecting data, gun permits would be delayed and
applications for small business loans would be suspended.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said senior nutrition grants,
which provide meals for 2.5 million elderly Americans, would not be
funded in a shutdown.

Borrowers and first-time home buyers seeking government-backed
mortgages could face delays. The Federal Housing Administration would
not underwrite or approve new loans during a shutdown.

Processing of government-backed loans to small businesses would be
suspended.

Federal occupational safety and health inspectors would probably
suspend workplace inspections, except in situations where danger is
imminent.

The Environmental Protection Agency would furlough all but 1,069 of
its 16,200 workers. The National Labor Relations Board would send home
1,600 of its 1,611 employees, and the Commodity Futures Trading
Commission would furlough 652 of its 680 employees.

According to White House numbers, at least 825,000 of the more than
two million federal workers would be furloughed.

The government was last shut down in early 1996, and the closure
lasted almost four weeks.

Follow Garth Kant on Twitter @DCgarth

Read more at
http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> SHUTDOWN 2013
> What government closure means for you
> Minor headache for some, major hassle for others
>
>
> WASHINGTON – Would most people really see a difference in their daily
> lives if the government shuts down?
>
> Maybe not, judging by various surveys of services that would be
> affected.
>

>

> Read more at
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
>

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/09/what-happens-during-a-government-shutdown

If all those shut down workers are non essential, why do we have them on
taxpayer expense in the first place?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

> SHUTDOWN 2013
> What government closure means for you

> Read more at
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
>

Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
political rhetoric for the next several weeks, and
I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.

Other than that, not much changes.

If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
we have them in the first place?

[Frank]

If the Senate can take their time in coming back during a crisis, I'd
say they are non-essential too.

Back when I was in industry, a plant crisis would call everybody back.
Friends that took vacation had to leave phone numbers where they could
be reached. One on vacation in New York was called back to the plant in
North Carolina.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/1/2013 8:58 AM, Frank wrote:
> If the Senate can take their time in coming back during a crisis, I'd
> say they are non-essential too.
>
> Back when I was in industry, a plant crisis would call everybody back.
> Friends that took vacation had to leave phone numbers where they could
> be reached. One on vacation in New York was called back to the plant in
> North Carolina.

Did they at least let you help with thecrisis, or
was it all gone by the time you got back to the
plant? Miss days of vacation and hurry home.....

[Stormin Mormon]

https://www.usps.com/
Post office operating normally during shut down.
(Well, d'uh, USPS is not a government agency.)

[Winston_Smith]

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

>> SHUTDOWN 2013
>> What government closure means for you
>

>Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
>political rhetoric for the next several weeks,

That's why devices have off switches.

>and I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.

And that is a bad thing because .....

I might miss out on all those dental offers?
Or the ED treatments? Or super duper hearing aids?
Or that weekly shopper bargains envelope that goes in the trash
unopened? Or --- exactly why is that an issue?

[rbowman]

Gunner Asch wrote:

> What government closure means for you
> Minor headache for some, major hassle for others

Why do I think clearing 4473's will move at a snail's pace out of spite?
Jellystone and Glacier have already closed their doors. I don't know if they
even cut the staff significantly, but a highly visible inconvenience reminds
the sheep they really need their masters.

[Richard]

The only real problem with this shut down is that at some point they
will cut a deal - and go back to work.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/1/2013 10:35 AM, rbowman wrote:
>
> Why do I think clearing 4473's will move at a snail's pace out of spite?
> Jellystone and Glacier have already closed their doors. I don't know if they
> even cut the staff significantly, but a highly visible inconvenience reminds
> the sheep they really need their masters.
>
>

Like when the school budget fails to pass, with the
17% rate of rise, they cut the band, school lunches,
and sports. Same tactic, different day.

[whoyakidding's ghost]

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon

<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:


>If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
>we have them in the first place?

You're pretending to want to learn about things you should have
absorbed by 9th grade. If you haven't gotten it by now then you never
will. Rather than try to explain the obvious to the helpless, I have a
simple question for you. Why don't you pack a couple extra pairs of
magic underwear and move to some place where Obama can't hold you
back? Somalia should be perfect for someone with your level of talent
and wisdom. Vote with your feet. It would make far more sense than
spending increasing amounts of your time irrationally complaining.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Winston_Smith" <inv...@butterfly.net> wrote in message
news:nnjl49dr7fve63ab1...@4ax.com...

The post office won't be affected, it is an independant agency.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:D6CdnRHA0vXEQtfP...@earthlink.com...

> The only real problem with this shut down is that at some point they
> will cut a deal

This is about actually paying for the spending that they've already voted
for and approved.

What these louts are doing is the same as walking into a restaraunt, eating
an expensive meal and then refusing to pay unless the place agrees to
provide them with a blow job and free drinks for the remainder of the
evening.

[SteveB]

On 9/30/2013 5:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> SHUTDOWN 2013
> What government closure means for you
> Minor headache for some, major hassle for others
>

snip
What it means to me is to further illuminate the real world that our
government is overloaded, duplicitous, and wasteful. The US is becoming
a caste system, with the governmental caste workers thinking that they
are "different" than other citizens. They have their OWN medical, their
OWN retirement, and other things they ONLY enjoy. There is a secretary
that works in the private section, and one that works for the
government. One barely gets by, the other has rights, privileges, and
benefits to the tomb.

And then there are slimy pukes like Reid and Frank, et al, that talk to
us like we are red headed stepchildren. It's time to shut government
down, run off the extra unneeded staff, run off the Nancy Pelosis, and
get back on track. And if we don't do it soon, I see either collapse or
revolution on the horizon.

Steve

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"whoyakidding's ghost" <whoyak...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:0jql491ja7qncm9uq...@4ax.com...

Because then he would no longer be able to recieve his food stamps and SSI check, that's why.

[Frank]

I did not work in the plant but at the company's large R&D site.
Friend that told me story was in an R&D site at the plant.
Times I went to plant and did some tests, I was expected to be available
24/7 for phone calls about test. Exempts (supervision or technical
people in the same pay category) that worked at the plants were also on
call 24/7. At the plant sites, practically all the exempts took the
whole month of December as vacation because it got deferred until then.
The company had to give them their allotted vacation time.

Our lab site was shut down by storms several times. Bad snows would get
us out early but those responsible for running the site, like in the
powerhouse, had to stay. They were the essential site personnel.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 05:15:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:

>SHUTDOWN 2013
>What government closure means for you
>Minor headache for some, major hassle for others

<SNIP>
========================================

While the ACA/Obamacare is the cause celebre de jour, the
budgetary/fiscal problems of the US go far deeper and are
systemic, thus are likely to prove fatal to the organization
[1st Republic] unless quickly corrected.

Basically, the well proven problem solving adage:
Q: How do you eat an elephant?
A: One bite at a time!
has been totally ignored.

The difficulty in applying this advice is compounded by
several reinforcing factors:

(1) There is no logic to governmental organization and
structure. Like Topsy, "it just growed."

(2) There is an almost total lack of reliable and
consistent data on which Congress is to base decisions.
For example, one of the largest governmental units is the
DoD, which has been unable to provide a "clean audit" annual
report for a number of years.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/02/11/Why-the-Defense-Department-Cant-Balance-Its-Books

GM, Lehman, MF Global, etc. should serve as a stark warning
and reminder as to what happens when an organization has no
effective budget/accounting control, and the most basic
allocation data, such as what is allocated for current
operations/expenses, what is allocated for projected
expanded operations, and what is allocated to what would be
capital investment projects in the private sector are not
readily available.

(3) The less than ethical empire building civil service
executives, and the "webees" [we be here before you here,
and we be here after you gone] have symbiotically and
synergistically sabotaged every effort to monitor, oversee,
limit and control their governmental activities.

(4) Congress is totally remiss in not implementing the
maxims:
"Plan your work, work your plan" and
"Failing to plan, is planning to fail."

It should be noted that we have not had an approved budget
for the Federal government for more than three years, and
have relied on "continuing resolution" stopgaps.
http://www.politifact.com/tennessee/statements/2012/sep/28/bob-corker/bob-corker-says-senate-has-not-passed-budget-more-/


Congress has not implemented two obvious items:

(A) The Constitution provides that two year
budgets/appropriations [longer for non military] are
allowed. Why then are we still appropriating on an annual
basis? We elect the house ever 2 years, so why not a 2 year
budget cycle?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei
"To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money
to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;"
Article I section 8

(B) It is known that the departmental budgets and special
requests must be enacted. Why is this always deferred to
the last minute, and the budgets/requests combined into huge
unreadable omnibus appropriations bills? Why are the
departmental budgets not scheduled for staggered separate
action throughout the 2 year term of the House, with the
larger and/or more contentious budgets allowed more time?

FWIW -- As the appropriations will be for eight quarters, it
will most likely be advisable to establish some sort of
"drip feed" such that the Treasury releases only 12.5% of
the money appropriated/authorized for each quarter.

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> SHUTDOWN 2013
>> What government closure means for you
>> Read more at
>> http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
>>
>
>Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
>political rhetoric for the next several weeks, and
>I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.
>
>Other than that, not much changes.
>
>If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
>we have them in the first place?
>

Excellent question....and one we have been bitching about for 4
decades.

>
>
>
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/30/2013 3:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon
> <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> SHUTDOWN 2013
>>> What government closure means for you
>>> Read more at
>>> http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
>>>
>>
>> Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
>> political rhetoric for the next several weeks, and
>> I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.
>>
>> Other than that, not much changes.
>>
>> If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
>> we have them in the first place?
>>
>
> Excellent question....and one we

Wonder if that will ever change? At least,
before the great cull, great pumpkin, or
next revolution?

Center posted as a courtesy to our resident
center poster.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:YIF2u.7314$BY7....@fx11.iad...

> On 9/30/2013 3:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

>> have been bitching about (f ederal taxes ) for 4 decades.

--and yet you don't pay any...

[Jim Wilkins]

"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in
message news:ve5m49dhdilflvash...@4ax.com...

>
> (3) The less than ethical empire building civil service
> executives, and the "webees" [we be here before you here,
> and we be here after you gone] have symbiotically and
> synergistically sabotaged every effort to monitor, oversee,
> limit and control their governmental activities.
>

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

[Stormin Mormon]

Means a lot of talk on the airwaves, and lists. Some services will be
unavailable for a short period. Things will resume in a few days or
weeks. The tax burden will go up, considerably. As the Fed pays its
obligations and more due to the shut down.

Business as usual.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 05:15:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:

>SHUTDOWN 2013
>What government closure means for you
>Minor headache for some, major hassle for others

<snip>

FYI

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/01/20762992-despite-shutdown-most-federal-spending-continues-until-debt-limit-is-reached?lite

[mike]

On 9/30/2013 5:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> SHUTDOWN 2013
> What government closure means for you
> Minor headache for some, major hassle for others
>

How about we make senators and congressmen pay back all
the salary/perks we gave them for not doing their jobs?
How many decades in advance did they know about this
deadline?

Does the office that issues "pink slips" still function?
They've got a lot of work to do. I volunteer to help.

[gonjah]

On 9/30/2013 2:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon
> <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> SHUTDOWN 2013
>>> What government closure means for you
>>> Read more at
>>> http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
>>>
>>
>> Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
>> political rhetoric for the next several weeks, and
>> I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.
>>
>> Other than that, not much changes.
>>
>> If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
>> we have them in the first place?
>>
>
> Excellent question....and one we have been bitching about for 4
> decades.
>
>

http://jobmob.co.il/images/articles/funny-layoff-cartoons-comics/dilbert_easiest_round_of_layoffs_ever.png

[whoyakidding's ghost]

The childish nature of his thinking (charitable description) is
stunning. And he's getting worse! Watch this video to see the root of
the problem with people like him. Then ask how something like that can
be fixed. Jesus fucking christ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sx2scvIFGjE

[BottleBob]

On Monday, September 30, 2013 5:15:20 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
> SHUTDOWN 2013
>
> What government closure means for you
>

> Minor headache for some, major hassle for others

<snip>

I've just had my first negative repercussion of the shutdown.

The battery in my watch died today, the band also needed to be replaced, plus the bezel was scratched, so I bought a new watch. I went to my favorite site to set the time...

http://time.gov/widget.html

I received the following message:

"NIST Closed, NIST and Affiliated Web Sites Not Available"

"Due to a lapse in government funding - blah, blah, blah."

I'm so INCONVENIENCED!!!!! LOL

Heh, no wonder congress has only a 10% approval rating. I think it's about time to implement some Term Limits on those clowns.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 10/1/2013 8:04 PM, gonjah wrote:
> On 9/30/2013 2:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon
>> <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>> SHUTDOWN 2013
>>>> What government closure means for you
>>>> Read more at
>>>> http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/what-government-closure-means-for-you/#zhqZqoiSXMM4Th5m.99
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
>>> political rhetoric for the next several weeks, and
>>> I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.
>>>
>>> Other than that, not much changes.
>>>
>>> If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
>>> we have them in the first place?
>>>

Because WE can't all be on welfare and food stamps... some of us need
to put up the facade that we have jobs.

[George Plimpton]

On 10/1/2013 8:42 AM, whoyakidding's ghost wrote:
> Somalia should be perfect for someone with your level of talent
> and wisdom.

Whenever you see a leftist invoke the "libertarian paradise of Somalia"
fallacy, you know you're dealing with a cynical liar.

Somalia is not what libertarianism looks like. It is not a libertarian
society or state. Somalia is a *failed* authoritarian third-world
state, and what it devolved into is *not* libertarianism or anarchy, but
rather competing warlords trying to reestablish an authoritarian regime
with the successful warlord at the top.

[RogerN]

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:slqi491jk6s8orlge...@4ax.com...

>SHUTDOWN 2013
>What government closure means for you

>Minor headache for some, major hassle for others
>
>

>WASHINGTON - Would most people really see a difference in their daily
>lives if the government shuts down?
<snip>

The only thing bi-partisan about ObamaCare has been the opposition to it.
Obama raped the USA with his shitty health care plan that is so great that
people have to be forced to buy it, fined if they don't, but the people
forcing us to buy it have exempted themselves from it. It is such shitty
legislation that Obama's already delayed it for businesses and his friends.

How to play ObamaCare. ObamaCare doesn't allow insurance companies to turn
you down for pre-existing conditions, so, pay the lesser of the fine/tax or
insurance. If you're young and healthy, spend a couple thousand a year to
avoid the insurance, save some money. Then when the time comes that your
healthcare costs exceed the price of insurance, buy the insurance. It's
like waiting to have a wreck before you buy auto insurance. So, learn how
to play ObamaCare to your advantage and steal from Obama voters to recoup
your expenses.

Republicans in Congress came up with 3 different negotiated offers
yesterday, the DEMOCTRATS are the ones that refused to negotiate. This is
about their ObamaCare that they are raping the USA with, they don't care
about the will of the people and they don't want their own healthcare plan,
it is to be forced only on the victims, we the people. The Republican
congressmen are only doing what the people elected them to do, try to
prevent this 100% Democrat assault on the USA. ObamaCare is an assault on
freedom, religious liberty, and healthcare. I heard a congressman within
the last week talking on the radio, he was a physician. When ObamaCare was
being worked on in 2009, he was one of 9 physicians in their group, none of
them were consulted about Obama's Healthcare plan. ObamaCare isn't about
healthcare, it's about destroying the USA with socialism.

RogerN

[Winston_Smith]

On Tue, 1 Oct 2013 08:44:25 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT" wrote:
>"Winston_Smith" wrote

>> On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:44:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>On 9/30/2013 8:15 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>>>> SHUTDOWN 2013
>>>> What government closure means for you
>>>
>>>Means that I'll be exposed to a massive amount of
>>>political rhetoric for the next several weeks,
>>
>> That's why devices have off switches.
>>
>>>and I won't have any mail in the mail box for a while.
>>
>> And that is a bad thing because .....
>>
>> I might miss out on all those dental offers?
>> Or the ED treatments? Or super duper hearing aids?
>> Or that weekly shopper bargains envelope that goes in the trash
>> unopened? Or --- exactly why is that an issue?
>
>The post office won't be affected, it is an independant agency.

I know that. I was replying to Stormin's usual over the top hype.

[Richard]

Actually, it's time to think about just canning the whole system and
starting over again further out west.

Mao said all political power springs from the barrel of a gun.
Maybe so.
But maybe this is the perfect chance to do it in a peaceful way.

I'm nominating Oklahoma City as the new center of American government.

Keep the representative republic approach.

Keep the same documentation (maybe Declaration of Independence - part
deaux?)

Question is - how to transfer the wealth from the old federalists to the
new?

[Gunner Asch]

Just think, Mary Lincoln was taken to task for purchasing China for
the White House during the Civil War. And Mamie Eisenhower had to
shell out the salary for a personal secretary from her husband's
salary.

Mamie Eisenhower :--- One paid for personally out of President's
salary. Total number of Personal Staff Members paid by Tax Payers.
Jackie Kennedy :------- One
Pat Nixon : --------------- One
Betty Ford: -------------- One
Rosaline Carter:-------- One
Nancy Regan : ---------- One (plus additional Two paid diretly by
the Regans )
Barbara Bush: ---------- One
Hilary Clinton : --------- -Three
Laura Bush: ------------- One
Michele Obama : -------Twenty-two (all paid for by Tax Payers)

How things have changed! If you're one of the tens of millions of
Americans facing certain destitution, earning less than subsistence
wages stocking the shelves at Wal -Mart or serving up McDonald
cheeseburgers , prepare to scream and then come to realize that the
benefit package for these servants of MS Michelle are the same as
members of the national security and defense departments and the bill
for these assorted lackeys is paid by YOU, John Q. Public:

Michele Obama 's personal staff:
One.. $172,200 - Sher , Susan (Chief Of Staff)
Two.. $140,000 - Frye , Jocelyn C. (Deputy Assistant to the
President but only works as Director of Policy And Projects For The
First Lady)
Three.. $113,000 - Rogers , Desiree G. (Special Assistant to the
President but only works as White House Social Secretary for Mrs.
Obama )
Four.. $102,000 - Johnston , Camille Y. (Special Assistant to the
President but only works as Director of Communications for the First
Lady)
Five.. $100,000 - Winter, Melissa (Special Assistant to the
President but only works as Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First
Lady)
Six.. $90,000 Medina , David S. (Deputy Chief Of Staff to the
First Lady)
Seven.. $84,000 - Lilyveld , Catherine M. (Director and Press
Secretary to the First Lady)
Eight.. $75,000 - Starkey , Frances M. (Director of Scheduling
and Advance for the First Lady)
Nine.. $70,000 - Sanders, Trooper (Deputy Director of Policy and
Project for the First Lady)
Ten.. $65,000 - Burnough , Erinn (Deputy Director and Deputy
Social Secretary)
Eleven.. $64,000 - Reinstein , Joseph B.(Deputy Director and Deputy
Social Secretary)
Twelve.. $62,000 - Goodman , Jennifer R. (Deputy Director of
Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady)
Thirteen.. $60,000 Fitz , Alan O.(Deputy Director of Advance
and Trip Director for the First Lady)
Fourteen.. $57,500 - Lewis , Dana M. (Special Assistant and
Personal Aide to the First Lady)
Fifteen.. $52,500 - Mustaphi , Semonti M. (Associate Director and
Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady)
Sixteen.. $50,000 - Jarvis , Kristen E. (Special Assistant for
Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady)
Seventeen.. $45,000 - Lechtenberg , Tyler A. (Associate Director of
Correspondence For The First Lady)
Eighteen.. $43,000 - Tubman , Samantha a (Deputy Associate
Director, Social Office)
Nineteen.. $40,000 - Boswell , Joseph J. (Executive Assistant to
the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
Twenty.. $36,000 - Armbruster , Sally M. (Staff Assistant to the
Social Secretary)
Twenty-One.. $35,000 - Bookey , Natalie (Staff Assistant)
Twenty-Two.. $35,000 - Jackson , Deilia A. (Deputy Associate Director
of Correspondence for the First Lady)

Total $1,591,200 in annual salaries - all for someone we did not
vote for, and apparently have no control over.

There has NEVER been anyone in the White House at any time who
has created such an army of staffers whose sole duties are the
facilitation of the First Lady's social life. One wonders why she
needs so much help, at taxpayer expense.

Note: This does not include makeup artist Ingrid Grimes -Miles,
49, and "First Hairstylist " Johnny Wright , 31, both of whom traveled
aboard Air Force One to Europe ...
Copyright 2009 & 2011 Canada Free Press: canadafreepress . com
/index. php /article/12652 < http :// canadafreepress . com /index.
php /article/12652 >

Yes, I know, The Canadian Free Press had to publish this, perhaps
because America no longer has a free press and the USA media is too
scared that they might be considered racist or suffer at the hands
of Obama

[Gunner Asch]

I wonder if Michelle looses her..."Staff"

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/1/2013 8:27 PM, BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
>>>> If the workers shut down are non essential, why do
>>>> we have them in the first place?
>>>>
>
>
> Because WE can't all be on welfare and food stamps... some of us need
> to put up the facade that we have jobs.
>

You know, that sounds reasonable.

[Stormin Mormon]

It means that people are more willing to accept
the fascist take over....

Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:03 PM

*10 steps to a Fascist America*


By Naomi Wolf.
*

· *Naomi Wolf's The End of America: A Letter of Warning
to a Young Patriot will be published by Chelsea Green
in September.



From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there
are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take
to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi
Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking
them all.

Last autumn, there was a military coup in Thailand. The
leaders of the coup took a number of steps, rather
systematically, as if they had a shopping list. In a
sense, they did. Within a matter of days, democracy had
been closed down: the coup leaders declared martial law,
sent armed soldiers into residential areas, took over
radio and TV stations, issued restrictions on the press,
tightened some limits on travel, and took certain activists
into custody.

They were not figuring these things out as they went along.
If you look at history, you can see that there is essentially
a blueprint for turning an open society into a dictatorship.
That blueprint has been used again and again in more and less
bloody, more and less terrifying ways. But it is always
effective. It is very difficult and arduous to create and
sustain a democracy - but history shows that closing one down
is much simpler. You simply have to be willing to take the 10
steps.

As difficult as this is to contemplate, it is clear, if you
are willing to look, that each of these 10 steps has already
been initiated today in the United States by the Bush
administration.

Because Americans like me were born in freedom, we have a
hard time even considering that it is possible for us to
become as unfree - domestically - as many other nations.
Because we no longer learn much about our rights or our
system of government - the task of being aware of the
constitution has been outsourced from citizens' ownership
to being the domain of professionals such as lawyers and
professors - we scarcely recognise the checks and balances
that the founders put in place, even as they are being
systematically dismantled. Because we don't learn much
about European history, the setting up of a department of
"homeland" security - remember who else was keen on the
word "homeland" - didn't raise the alarm bells it might
have.

It is my argument that, beneath our very noses, George Bush
and his administration are using time-tested tactics to
close down an open society. It is time for us to be willing
to think the unthinkable - as the author and political
journalist Joe Conason, has put it, that it can happen here.
And that we are further along than we realise.

Conason eloquently warned of the danger of American
authoritarianism. I am arguing that we need also to look at
the lessons of European and other kinds of fascism to
understand the potential seriousness of the events we see
unfolding in the US.
*

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy*

After we were hit on September 11 2001, we were in a
state of national shock. Less than six weeks later,
on October 26 2001, the USA Patriot Act was passed by
a Congress that had little chance to debate it; many
said that they scarcely had time to read it. We were
told we were now on a "war footing"; we were in a
"global war" against a "global caliphate" intending
to "wipe out civilisation". There have been other
times of crisis in which the US accepted limits on
civil liberties, such as during the civil war, when
Lincoln declared martial law, and the second world
war, when thousands of Japanese-American citizens
were interned. But this situation, as Bruce Fein of
the American Freedom Agenda notes, is unprecedented:
all our other wars had an endpoint, so the pendulum
was able to swing back toward freedom; this war is
defined as open-ended in time and without national
boundaries in space - the globe itself is the battle-
field. "This time," Fein says, "there will be no
defined end."

Creating a terrifying threat - hydra-like, secretive,
evil - is an old trick. It can, like Hitler's invocation
of a communist threat to the nation's security, be
based on actual events (one Wisconsin academic has
faced calls for his dismissal because he noted,
among other things, that the alleged communist
arson, the Reichstag fire of February 1933, was
swiftly followed in Nazi Germany by passage of
the Enabling Act, which replaced constitutional
law with an open-ended state of emergency). Or
the terrifying threat can be based, like the
National Socialist evocation of the "global
conspiracy of world Jewry", on myth.

It is not that global Islamist terrorism is not a
severe danger; of course it is. I am arguing rather
that the language used to convey the nature of the
threat is different in a country such as Spain -
which has also suffered violent terrorist attacks -
than it is in America. Spanish citizens know that
they face a grave security threat; what we as
American citizens believe is that we are potentially
threatened with the end of civilisation as we know
it. Of course, this makes us more willing to accept
restrictions on our freedoms.
*

2. Create a gulag*

Once you have got everyone scared, the next step is
to create a prison system outside the rule of law (as
Bush put it, he wanted the American detention centre
at Guantánamo Bay to be situated in legal "outer space") -
where torture takes place.

At first, the people who are sent there are seen by
citizens as outsiders: troublemakers, spies, "enemies
of the people" or "criminals". Initially, citizens
tend to support the secret prison system; it makes
them feel safer and they do not identify with the
prisoners. But soon enough, civil society leaders -
opposition members, labour activists, clergy and
journalists - are arrested and sent there as well.

This process took place in fascist shifts or anti-
democracy crackdowns ranging from Italy and Germany
in the 1920s and 1930s to the Latin American coups
of the 1970s and beyond. It is standard practice for
closing down an open society or crushing a pro-
democracy uprising.

With its jails in Iraq and Afghanistan, and, of
course, Guantánamo in Cuba, where detainees are
abused, and kept indefinitely without trial and
without access to the due process of the law,
America certainly has its gulag now. Bush and
his allies in Congress recently announced they
would issue no information about the secret CIA
"black site" prisons throughout the world, which
are used to incarcerate people who have been
seized off the street.

Gulags in history tend to metastasise, becoming
ever larger and more secretive, ever more deadly
and formalised. We know from first-hand accounts,
photographs, videos and government documents that
people, innocent and guilty, have been tortured
in the US-run prisons we are aware of and
those we can't investigate adequately.

But Americans still assume this system and detainee
abuses involve only scary brown people with whom
they don't generally identify. It was brave of
the conservative pundit William Safire to quote
the anti-Nazi pastor Martin Niemöller, who had
been seized as a political prisoner: "First they
came for the Jews." Most Americans don't understand
yet that the destruction of the rule of law at
Guantánamo set a dangerous precedent for them, too.

By the way, the establishment of military tribunals
that deny prisoners due process tends to come early
on in a fascist shift. Mussolini and Stalin set
up such tribunals. On April 24 1934, the Nazis, too,
set up the People's Court, which also bypassed the
judicial system: prisoners were held indefinitely,
often in isolation, and tortured, without being
charged with offences, and were subjected to show
trials. Eventually, the Special Courts became a
parallel system that put pressure on the regular
courts to abandon the rule of law in favour of Nazi
ideology when making decisions.
*

3. Develop a thug caste
*

When leaders who seek what I call a "fascist shift"
want to close down an open society, they send para-
military groups of scary young men out to terrorise
citizens. The Blackshirts roamed the Italian country-
side beating up communists; the Brownshirts staged
violent rallies throughout Germany. This paramilitary
force is especially important in a democracy: you need
citizens to fear thug violence and so you need thugs
who are free from prosecution.

The years following 9/11 have proved a bonanza for
America's security contractors, with the Bush admin-
istration outsourcing areas of work that traditionally
fell to the US military. In the process, contracts worth
hundreds of millions of dollars have been issued for
security work by mercenaries at home and abroad. In Iraq,
some of these contract operatives have been accused of
involvement in torturing prisoners, harassing journalists
and firing on Iraqi civilians. Under Order 17, issued to
regulate contractors in Iraq by the one-time US adminis-
trator in Baghdad, Paul Bremer, these contractors are
immune from prosecution

Yes, but that is in Iraq, you could argue; however, after
Hurricane Katrina, the Department of Homeland Security
hired and deployed hundreds of armed private security
guards in New Orleans. The investigative journalist Jeremy
Scahill interviewed one unnamed guard who reported having
fired on unarmed civilians in the city. It was a natural
disaster that underlay that episode - but the adminis-
tration's endless war on terror means ongoing scope for
what are in effect privately contracted armies to take
on crisis and emergency management at home in US cities.

Thugs in America? Groups of angry young Republican men,
dressed in identical shirts and trousers, menaced poll
workers counting the votes in Florida in 2000. If you are
reading history, you can imagine that there can be a need
for "public order" on the next election day. Say there
are protests, or a threat, on the day of an election;
history would not rule out the presence of a private
security firm at a polling station "to restore public
order".
*

4. Set up an internal surveillance system*

In Mussolini's Italy, in Nazi Germany, in communist
East Germany, in communist China - in every closed
society - secret police spy on ordinary people and
encourage neighbours to spy on neighbours. The Stasi
needed to keep only a minority of East Germans under
surveillance to convince a majority that they
themselves were being watched.

In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau
wrote in the New York Times about a secret state
programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their
emails and follow international financial trans-
actions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that
they, too, could be under state scrutiny.

In closed societies, this surveillance is cast as
being about "national security"; the true function
is to keep citizens docile and inhibit their
activism and dissent.
*

5. Harass citizens' groups*

The fifth thing you do is related to step four - you
infiltrate and harass citizens' groups. It can be
trivial: a church in Pasadena, whose minister
preached that Jesus was in favour of peace, found
itself being investigated by the Internal Revenue
Service, while churches that got Republicans out to
vote, which is equally illegal under US tax law,
have been left alone.

Other harassment is more serious: the American Civil
Liberties Union reports that thousands of ordinary
American anti-war, environmental and other groups
have been infiltrated by agents: a secret Pentagon
database includes more than four dozen peaceful
anti-war meetings, rallies or marches by American
citizens in its category of 1,500 "suspicious
incidents". The equally secret Counterintelligence
Field Activity (Cifa) agency of the Department of
Defense has been gathering information about
domestic organisations engaged in peaceful political
activities: Cifa is supposed to track "potential
terrorist threats" as it watches ordinary US citizen
activists. A little-noticed new law has redefined
activism such as animal rights protests as "terrorism".
So the definition of "terrorist" slowly expands to
include the opposition.
*

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release*

This scares people. It is a kind of cat-and-mouse
game. Nicholas D Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, the
investigative reporters who wrote China Wakes: the
Struggle for the Soul of a Rising Power, describe
pro-democracy activists in China, such as Wei
Jingsheng, being arrested and released many times.
In a closing or closed society there is a "list"
of dissidents and opposition leaders: you are
targeted in this way once you are on the list,
and it is hard to get off the list.

In 2004, America's Transportation Security
Administration confirmed that it had a list of
passengers who were targeted for security searches
or worse if they tried to fly. People who have
found themselves on the list? Two middle-aged
women peace activists in San Francisco; liberal
Senator Edward Kennedy; a member of Venezuela's
government - after Venezuela's president had
criticised Bush; and thousands of ordinary US
citizens.

Professor Walter F Murphy is emeritus of Princeton
University; he is one of the foremost constitutional
scholars in the nation and author of the classic
Constitutional Democracy. Murphy is also a decorated
former marine, and he is not even especially
politically liberal. But on March 1 this year, he
was denied a boarding pass at Newark, "because I
was on the Terrorist Watch list".

"Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of
people from flying because of that," asked the
airline employee.

"I explained," said Murphy, "that I had not so
marched but had, in September 2006, given a
lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the
web, highly critical of George Bush for his
many violations of the constitution."

"That'll do it," the man said.

Anti-war marcher? Potential terrorist. Support
the constitution? Potential terrorist. History
shows that the categories of "enemy of the people"
tend to expand ever deeper into civil life.

James Yee, a US citizen, was the Muslim chaplain
at Guantánamo who was accused of mishandling
classified documents. He was harassed by the US
military before the charges against him were
dropped. Yee has been detained and released
several times. He is still of interest.

Brandon Mayfield, a US citizen and lawyer in Oregon,
was mistakenly identified as a possible terrorist.
His house was secretly broken into and his computer
seized. Though he is innocent of the accusation
against him, he is still on the list.

It is a standard practice of fascist societies that
once you are on the list, you can't get off.
*

7. Target key individuals
*

Threaten civil servants, artists and academics with
job loss if they don't toe the line. Mussolini went
after the rectors of state universities who did
not conform to the fascist line; so did Joseph
Goebbels, who purged academics who were not pro-Nazi;
so did Chile's Augusto Pinochet; so does the Chinese
communist Politburo in punishing pro-democracy
students and professors.

Academe is a tinderbox of activism, so those seeking
a fascist shift punish academics and students with
professional loss if they do not "coordinate", in
Goebbels' term, ideologically. Since civil servants
are the sector of society most vulnerable to being
fired by a given regime, they are also a group that
fascists typically "coordinate" early on: the Reich
Law for the Re-establishment of a Professional Civil
Service was passed on April 7 1933.


Bush supporters in state legislatures in several
states put pressure on regents at state universities
to penalise or fire academics who have been critical
of the administration. As for civil servants, the Bush
administration has derailed the career of one military
lawyer who spoke up for fair trials for detainees,
while an administration official publicly intimidated
the law firms that represent detainees pro bono by
threatening to call for their major corporate clients
to boycott them.

Elsewhere, a CIA contract worker who said in a
closed blog that "waterboarding is torture" was
stripped of the security clearance she needed
in order to do her job.

Most recently, the administration purged eight US
attorneys for what looks like insufficient political
loyalty. When Goebbels purged the civil service
in April 1933, attorneys were "coordinated" too,
a step that eased the way of the increasingly
brutal laws to follow.
*

8. Control the press*

Italy in the 1920s, Germany in the 30s, East
Germany in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s,
the Latin American dictatorships in the 70s,
China in the 80s and 90s - all dictatorships
and would-be dictators target newspapers and
journalists. They threaten and harass them in
more open societies that they are seeking to
close, and they arrest them and worse in
societies that have been closed already.

The Committee to Protect Journalists says arrests
of US journalists are at an all-time high: Josh Wolf
(no relation), a blogger in San Francisco, has
been put in jail for a year for refusing to turn
over video of an anti-war demonstration; Homeland
Security brought a criminal complaint against
reporter Greg Palast, claiming he threatened
"critical infrastructure" when he and a TV producer
were filming victims of Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana.
Palast had written a bestseller critical of the Bush
administration.

Other reporters and writers have been punished
in other ways. Joseph C Wilson accused Bush, in
a New York Times op-ed, of leading the country to
war on the basis of a false charge that Saddam
Hussein had acquired yellowcake uranium in Niger.
His wife, Valerie Plame, was outed as a CIA spy
- a form of retaliation that ended her career.

Prosecution and job loss are nothing, though,
compared with how the US is treating journalists
seeking to cover the conflict in Iraq in an unbiased
way. The Committee to Protect Journalists has
documented multiple accounts of the US military
in Iraq firing upon or threatening to fire upon
unembedded (meaning independent) reporters and
camera operators from organisations ranging from
al-Jazeera to the BBC. While westerners may
question the accounts by al-Jazeera, they should
pay attention to the accounts of reporters such as
the BBC's Kate Adie. In some cases reporters have
been wounded or killed, including ITN's Terry
Lloyd in 2003. Both CBS and the Associated Press
in Iraq had staff members seized by the US military
and taken to violent prisons; the news organisations
were unable to see the evidence against their staffers.

Over time in closing societies, real news is supplanted
by fake news and false documents. Pinochet showed
Chilean citizens falsified documents to back up his
claim that terrorists had been about to attack the
nation. The yellowcake charge, too, was based on
forged papers.

You won't have a shutdown of news in modern America -
it is not possible. But you can have, as Frank Rich
and Sidney Blumenthal have pointed out, a steady
stream of lies polluting the news well. What you
already have is a White House directing a stream
of false information that is so relentless that it
is increasingly hard to sort out truth from untruth.
In a fascist system, it's not the lies that count
but the muddying. When citizens can't tell real
news from fake, they give up their demands for
accountability bit by bit.
*

9. Dissent equals treason*

Cast dissent as "treason" and criticism as "espionage'.
Every closing society does this, just as it elaborates
laws that increasingly criminalise certain kinds of
speech and expand the definition of "spy" and "traitor".
When Bill Keller, the publisher of the New York Times,
ran the Lichtblau/Risen stories, Bush called the Times'
leaking of classified information "disgraceful", while
Republicans in Congress called for Keller to be charged
with treason, and rightwing commentators and news outlets
kept up the "treason" drumbeat. Some commentators, as
Conason noted, reminded readers smugly that one penalty
for violating the Espionage Act is execution.

Conason is right to note how serious a threat
that attack represented. It is also important
to recall that the 1938 Moscow show trial accused
the editor of Izvestia, Nikolai Bukharin, of
treason; Bukharin was, in fact, executed. And it
is important to remind Americans that when the
1917 Espionage Act was last widely invoked,
during the infamous 1919 Palmer Raids, leftist
activists were arrested without warrants in
sweeping roundups, kept in jail for up to five
months, and "beaten, starved, suffocated, tortured
and threatened with death", according to the
historian Myra MacPherson. After that, dissent
was muted in America for a decade.

In Stalin's Soviet Union, dissidents were "enemies
of the people". National Socialists called those
who supported Weimar democracy "November traitors".

And here is where the circle closes: most Americans
do not realise that since September of last year -
when Congress wrongly, foolishly, passed the
Military Commissions Act of 2006 - the president
has the power to call any US citizen an "enemy
combatant". He has the power to define what "enemy
combatant" means. The president can also delegate
to anyone he chooses in the executive branch the
right to define "enemy combatant" any way he or she
wants and then seize Americans accordingly.

Even if you or I are American citizens, even if we
turn out to be completely innocent of what he has
accused us of doing, he has the power to have us
seized as we are changing planes at Newark tomorrow,
or have us taken with a knock on the door; ship you
or me to a navy brig; and keep you or me in isolation,
possibly for months, while awaiting trial. (Prolonged
isolation, as psychiatrists know, triggers psychosis
in otherwise mentally healthy prisoners. That is why
Stalin's gulag had an isolation cell, like Guantánamo's,
in every satellite prison. Camp 6, the newest, most
brutal facility at Guantánamo, is all isolation cells.)

We US citizens will get a trial eventually - for
now. But legal rights activists at the Center for
Constitutional Rights say that the Bush administration
is trying increasingly aggressively to find ways to get
around giving even US citizens fair trials. "Enemy
combatant" is a status offence - it is not even
something you have to have done. "We have absolutely
moved over into a preventive detention model - you
look like you could do something bad, you might do
something bad, so we're going to hold you," says a
spokeswoman of the CCR.

Most Americans surely do not get this yet. No wonder:
it is hard to believe, even though it is true. In every
closing society, at a certain point there are some
high-profile arrests - usually of opposition leaders,
clergy and journalists. Then everything goes quiet.
After those arrests, there are still newspapers, courts,
TV and radio, and the facades of a civil society. There
just isn't real dissent. There just isn't freedom. If
you look at history, just before those arrests is where
we are now.
*

10. Suspend the rule of law*

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007
gave the president new powers over the national
guard. This means that in a national emergency -
which the president now has enhanced powers to
declare - he can send Michigan's militia to
enforce a state of emergency that he has declared
in Oregon, over the objections of the state's
governor and its citizens.

Even as Americans were focused on Britney Spears's
meltdown and the question of who fathered Anna
Nicole's baby, the New York Times editorialised
about this shift: "A disturbing recent phenomenon
in Washington is that laws that strike to the
heart of American democracy have been passed in
the dead of night ... Beyond actual insurrection,
the president may now use military troops as a
domestic police force in response to a natural
disaster, a disease outbreak, terrorist attack
or any 'other condition'."

Critics see this as a clear violation of the Posse
Comitatus Act - which was meant to restrain the
federal government from using the military for
domestic law enforcement. The Democratic senator
Patrick Leahy says the bill encourages a president
to declare federal martial law. It also violates
the very reason the founders set up our system of
government as they did: having seen citizens
bullied by a monarch's soldiers, the founders were
terrified of exactly this kind of concentration of
militias' power over American people in the hands
of an oppressive executive or faction.
*

Of course, the United States is not vulnerable* to
the violent, total closing-down of the system that
followed Mussolini's march on Rome or Hitler's
roundup of political prisoners. Our democratic
habits are too resilient, and our military and
judiciary too independent, for any kind of
scenario like that.

Rather, as other critics are noting, our experiment
in democracy could be closed down by a process of
erosion.

It is a mistake to think that early in a fascist
shift you see the profile of barbed wire against
the sky. In the early days, things look normal on
the surface; peasants were celebrating harvest
festivals in Calabria in 1922; people were shopping
and going to the movies in Berlin in 1931. Early on,
as WH Auden put it, the horror is always elsewhere -
while someone is being tortured, children are
skating, ships are sailing: "dogs go on with their
doggy life ... How everything turns away/ Quite
leisurely from the disaster."

As Americans turn away quite leisurely, keeping
tuned to internet shopping and American Idol, the
foundations of democracy are being fatally corroded.
Something has changed profoundly that weakens us
unprecedentedly: our democratic traditions,
independent judiciary and free press do their work
today in a context in which we are "at war" in a
"long war" - a war without end, on a battlefield
described as the globe, in a context that gives the
president - without US citizens realising it yet -
the power over US citizens of freedom or long
solitary incarceration, on his say-so alone.

That means a hollowness has been expanding under
the foundation of all these still- free-looking
institutions - and this foundation can give way
under certain kinds of pressure. To prevent such
an outcome, we have to think about the "what ifs".

What if, in a year and a half, there is another
attack - say, God forbid, a dirty bomb? The
executive can declare a state of emergency.
History shows that any leader, of any party, will
be tempted to maintain emergency powers after the
crisis has passed. With the gutting of traditional
checks and balances, we are no less endangered by
a President Hillary than by a President Giuliani -
because any executive will be tempted to enforce
his or her will through edict rather than the
arduous, uncertain process of democratic
negotiation and compromise.

What if the publisher of a major US newspaper were
charged with treason or espionage, as a rightwing
effort seemed to threaten Keller with last year?
What if he or she got 10 years in jail? What would
the newspapers look like the next day? Judging
from history, they would not cease publishing; but
they would suddenly be very polite.

Right now, only a handful of patriots are trying to
hold back the tide of tyranny for the rest of us -
staff at the Center for Constitutional Rights,
who faced death threats for representing the
detainees yet persisted all the way to the Supreme
Court; activists at the American Civil Liberties
Union; and prominent conservatives trying to roll
back the corrosive new laws, under the banner of
a new group called the American Freedom Agenda.
This small, disparate collection of people needs
everybody's help, including that of Europeans and
others internationally who are willing to put
pressure on the administration because they can
see what a US unrestrained by real democracy at
home can mean for the rest of the world.

We need to look at history and face the "what ifs".
For if we keep going down this road, the "end of
America" could come for each of us in a different
way, at a different moment; each of us might have
a different moment when we feel forced to look back
and think: that is how it was before - and this is
the way it is now.

"The accumulation of all powers, legislative,
executive, and judiciary, in the same hands ... is
the definition of tyranny," wrote James Madison. We
still have the choice to stop going down this road;
we can stand our ground and fight for our nation,
and take up the banner the founders asked us to
carry.





The Guardian

Tuesday April 24, 2007



--
Ends

[Richard]

Kinda sounds like 1963 all over again, doesn't it?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/1/2013 8:21 PM, BottleBob wrote:
>
> I've just had my first negative repercussion of the shutdown.
>
> The battery in my watch died today, the band also needed to be replaced, plus the bezel was scratched, so I bought a new watch. I went to my favorite site to set the time...
>
> http://time.gov/widget.html
>
> I received the following message:
>
> "NIST Closed, NIST and Affiliated Web Sites Not Available"
>
> "Due to a lapse in government funding - blah, blah, blah."
>
> I'm so INCONVENIENCED!!!!! LOL
>
> Heh, no wonder congress has only a 10% approval rating. I think it's about time to implement some Term Limits on those clowns.
>

Well, must be time to build a disaster kit?
http://www.ready.gov/

Got your bottled water, duct tape, plastic sheeting?

[Stormin Mormon]

And the Dems are so set on socialized med, they shut
down the govt on Monday night, and blamed the Reps.
Of course, the end game is socialized med. At that
point, some government bureaucrat is going to decide
if Mama gets her operation, and how much pain meds to
give to people. Actually, it's already started. One
of my friends has spinal injury. She has been on
medical pain meds for years, which do some good.
Now, the government is telling her doctor to cut the
dose, and substitute another med which just doesn't
work as well. Literally, the government is causing a
lot of people a lot of pain.

[Steve Walker]

You have got to be kidding. It's a no maintenance web site, fees paid in
advance. I agree on the term limits. Keeps power bases from getting too
big. I think all in political elected office should have an EARNED
degree in economics, NOT honorary, no substitute. I don't care if you
are a CEO of some big company, or wealthy. No degree, no run for election.

--
Steve Walker
Fusi...@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/5/2013 9:18 AM, Steve Walker wrote:
>> Heh, no wonder congress has only a 10% approval rating. I
>> think it's about time to implement some Term Limits on those clowns.
>>
> You have got to be kidding. It's a no maintenance web site, fees paid in
> advance. I agree on the term limits. Keeps power bases from getting too
> big. I think all in political elected office should have an EARNED
> degree in economics, NOT honorary, no substitute. I don't care if you
> are a CEO of some big company, or wealthy. No degree, no run for election.
>

Mount Rushmore shut down, by covering it over. And blocking
all spots with a view.

http://freepatriot.org/2013/10/05/spiteful-obama-blocks-view-mt-rushmore/?fb_source=pubv1

[Steve Walker]

Does this mean they have nobody to collect taxes? <G>

Nobody to authorize and send foreign aid? <G>

[Edward A. Falk]

In article <fHU3u.36207$F%.21468@fx18.iad>,

Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Mount Rushmore shut down, by covering it over. And blocking
>all spots with a view.
>
>http://freepatriot.org/2013/10/05/spiteful-obama-blocks-view-mt-rushmore/?fb_source=pubv1

You do know that it's an obvious joke, don't you? Take another look
at the photo you linked to.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/rushmore.asp
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 19:19:31 +0000 (UTC), fa...@rahul.net (Edward A.
Falk) wrote:

>In article <fHU3u.36207$F%.21468@fx18.iad>,
>Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Mount Rushmore shut down, by covering it over. And blocking
>>all spots with a view.
>>
>>http://freepatriot.org/2013/10/05/spiteful-obama-blocks-view-mt-rushmore/?fb_source=pubv1
>
>You do know that it's an obvious joke, don't you? Take another look
>at the photo you linked to.
>
>http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/rushmore.asp

Obvious sarcasm true indeed However..Rushmore is still closed..and
the road cones across the viewing points are still there.

And the ocean is still closed, homeowners are still not allowed to
stay in their homes, busnisses are still forbidden to open and the NPS
is still forbidding anyone, anywhere to do anything on government
land,,whether or not the NPS has anything do with it or not.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/10/03/obama-administration-forces-hundreds-privately-funded-parks-to-close-amid/

All directives of President Obama and put into play by his
syncophants.


"The games politicians play: Barack Obama is having a lot of fun using
the government shutdown to squeeze the public in imaginative ways. The
point of the shutdown game is to see who can squeeze hardest, make the
most pious speech and listen for the applause. It’s a variation on the
grade-school ritual of “you show me yours, and I’ll show you mine.”

The Park Service appears to be closing streets on mere whim and
caprice. The rangers even closed the parking lot at Mount Vernon,
where the plantation home of George Washington is a favorite tourist
destination. That was after they barred the new World War II Memorial
on the Mall to veterans of World War II. But the government does not
own Mount Vernon; it is privately owned by the Mount Vernon Ladies'
Association. The ladies bought it years ago to preserve it as a
national memorial. The feds closed access to the parking lots this
week, even though the lots are jointly owned with the Mount Vernon
ladies. The rangers are from the government, and they’re only here to
help.

"It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation," an angry Park Service
ranger in Washington says of the harassment. "“We’ve been told to make
life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting."

And its not working as well as the Left has hoped. In fact..folks are
simply ignoring the closures and disposing of the items used to block
off places and things.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/10/government-shutdown-causes-surprising-closures-94808.html


Obama Administration Forces Hundreds of Privately Funded Parks to
Close Amid Shutdown

By Diane Macedo
Published October 03, 2013
FOXBusiness

The Obama Administration is ordering hundreds of parks that sit on
federal land to close amid the government shutdown -- even though they
don't use any government funding.

Operators of Claude Moore Colonial Farm in Virginia, for example, say
they were shocked when the National Park Service ordered their park be
shut. That's because it's been 80% funded by a local non-profit for
years, which agreed to take over 100% of the costs of the facility as
of October 1. Still, the National Park Service spent taxpayer money to
erect barricades around the park and evict everyone from the farm this
week.

“We do not know why CMCF was barricaded from public access or why NPS
police escorted staff and volunteers off the property right before a
fundraising event on Monday. The National Park Service does not pay
CMCFs employees, for its operations, maintenance, events or programs,”
Claude Moore Colonial Farm Operations Manager Heather Bodin wrote in
an email to FOX Business. "In our 32-year history of running the farm,
through other government shutdowns, we have never had to close our
doors before.”

The same is true for the more than 100 U.S. Forest Service campgrounds
and day-use areas run by the Arizona-based company Recreation Resource
Management.

In a letter to his congressman, RRM's owner and president Warren Meyer
writes that his parks haven't been affected by past government
shutdowns because "our operations are self-sufficient (we are fully
funded by user fees at the gate), we get no federal funds, we employ
no government workers on these sites, and we actually pay rent into
the Treasury."

However, Meyer says he too got orders yesterday, directly from the
White House, to close up shop.

"I can only assume their intention is to artificially increase the
cost of the shutdown as some sort of political ploy," Meyer said in
his letter. "The point of the shutdown is to close non-essential
operations that require Federal money and manpower to stay open. So
why is the White House closing private operations that require no
government money to keep open and actually pay a percentage of their
gate revenues back to the Treasury? We are a tenant of the U.S. Forest
Service, and a tenant does not have to close his business just because
his landlord goes on a vacation."

A spokeswoman for the National Park Service told MyFoxDC that it is
still federal land, and the rule is that if there's no Congressional
appropriation, no visitors are allowed."

Im afraid as time goes on..the NPS will start having employees turn up
missing in action. Either the result of them simply staying home and
safe...or at the bottom of a hole or canyon somewhere.


Gunner

[Michael A. Terrell]

Steve Walker wrote:
>
> You have got to be kidding. It's a no maintenance web site, fees paid in
> advance. I agree on the term limits. Keeps power bases from getting too
> big. I think all in political elected office should have an EARNED
> degree in economics, NOT honorary, no substitute. I don't care if you
> are a CEO of some big company, or wealthy. No degree, no run for election.

If you've ever walked past a law school, you shouldn't be allowed to
run for office.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

[pyotr filipivich]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Sun, 13 Oct 2013
00:04:10 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>
>Steve Walker wrote:
>>
>> You have got to be kidding. It's a no maintenance web site, fees paid in
>> advance. I agree on the term limits. Keeps power bases from getting too
>> big. I think all in political elected office should have an EARNED
>> degree in economics, NOT honorary, no substitute. I don't care if you
>> are a CEO of some big company, or wealthy. No degree, no run for election.
>
> If you've ever walked past a law school, you shouldn't be allowed to
>run for office.

Pttthhthththth. I've walked past the law school several time

Never went in, just walked past.

Maybe I should, just to see what they do in their.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

[a friend]

On 10/12/2013 9:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> Steve Walker wrote:
>>
>> You have got to be kidding. It's a no maintenance web site, fees paid in
>> advance. I agree on the term limits. Keeps power bases from getting too
>> big. I think all in political elected office should have an EARNED
>> degree in economics, NOT honorary, no substitute. I don't care if you
>> are a CEO of some big company, or wealthy. No degree, no run for election.
>
>
> If you've ever walked past a law school, you shouldn't be allowed to
> run for office.
>
>

be advised that anyone who thinks that a web site with a database
connected to it and is associated with a government requires no
maintenance is a person without a clue - a US government web site gets
tens of thousands of directed attacks per day - from a security
perspective alone it requires significant attention. To leave it open
would be to place the system at risk and virtually guarantee that it
would be compromised.

--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

[Michael A. Terrell]

a friend wrote:
>
> be advised that anyone who thinks that a web site with a database
> connected to it and is associated with a government requires no
> maintenance is a person without a clue - a US government web site gets
> tens of thousands of directed attacks per day - from a security
> perspective alone it requires significant attention. To leave it open
> would be to place the system at risk and virtually guarantee that it
> would be compromised.

Be advised that you're still a low grade moron and a troll. The time
servers have no database. Even ones that do can temporarily store the
data on read only memory, and do frequent reloads so any attempt at
hacking is minimized. Another thing is to block all IP addresses from
outside the US, along with any from the US that make too many attempts.
Go find a place full of sub 70 IQ losers like yourself, if one exists.

[Ignoramus22100]

On 2013-10-13, a friend <afr...@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com> wrote:
> be advised that anyone who thinks that a web site with a database
> connected to it and is associated with a government requires no
> maintenance is a person without a clue - a US government web site gets
> tens of thousands of directed attacks per day - from a security
> perspective alone it requires significant attention. To leave it open
> would be to place the system at risk and virtually guarantee that it
> would be compromised.
>

This is truly a dumb statement. I leave my website server for
algebra.com without any attention for weeks. It runs just fine and
does not become compromised.

Computer security and programming is what makes me a living.

i

[jon_banquer]

The website design for algebra.com sucks dead donkey dick. It's one of the worst websites I've ever seen. You have zero talent for graphical design.

[Richard]

Dear Algebra,

Please stop asking us to find your X.
She's not coming back, and we don't know Y.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:16:27 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:




> The website design for algebra.com sucks dead donkey dick. It's one of the worst websites I've ever seen. You have zero talent for graphical design.

Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like. Does your website have pictures of your shop and equipment?

Dan

[jon_banquer]

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:44:47 PM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:

> Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.

You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:07:28 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

> > Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.
>
>
>
> You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.

So you are saying that you do not have a website, but feel no one will realise that. Sorry but most of the people here are smarter than that.

Dan

[jon_banquer]

You have no clue what I'm saying or what a good website looks like because your taste is in your ass.

[Ignoramus22100]

I agree that I have zero graphical talent. And yet, I have about
160,000 visitors per day on week days.

https://www.quantcast.com/algebra.com

This website is not about appealing visual design, it is about being
a useful and helpful place for people seeking homework help. Kind of
like craigslist. Also very ugly, but useful.

But yes, I suck at all artistic skills involving non-rectangular
objects. And I am fine with this.

i

[jon_banquer]

Of course iggy is "fine with this". iggy specializes in butt ugly... yet another reason his machined parts will never be what they should be.

Perhaps someone should buy the idiot a clue. Most customers want good looking parts, welding tables, etc.

[Gunner Asch]

Jon uses a computer at the library. They dont let him do websites.

[Gunner Asch]

Everyone here is smarter than Jon.

I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?

[Gunner Asch]

It appears to work for..and not bother, 160,000 people every day.

Jon ant even lie artistically on Usenet.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:41:35 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:


> You have no clue what I'm saying or what a good website looks like because your taste is in your ass.

Once again Jon says he has no website or home shop.

Dan

[Ignoramus30725]

On 2013-10-14, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 18:25:38 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
><dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:07:28 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
>>
>>> > Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.
>>
>>So you are saying that you do not have a website, but feel no one will realise that. Sorry but most of the people here are smarter than that.
>>
>> Dan
>
> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.

That's not really saying much.

[jon_banquer]

Once again you show yourself to be a clueless moron.

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:46:06 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 18:25:38 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
>
> <dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:07:28 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> > Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.
>
> >
>
> >So you are saying that you do not have a website, but feel no one will realise that. Sorry but most of the people here are smarter than that.
>
> >
>
> > Dan
>
>
>
> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>
>
>
> I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?

Many people are smarter than I am but you're not one of those people, Wieber.

I was never punched at Westec. It's the kind of worthless gossip that lying, shit bags like you love to engage in.

In case you haven't noticed, Wieber I'm still here after you promised I'd be killed with one of the many phony death threats that you have made... none of which you can back up.

You're a spineless, lying, little pussy, Wieber. About the only think your capable of killing is your own dog which manged to accomplish with neglect and irresponsibility.

[jon_banquer]

iggy, never really has much to say other than bragging about what he has purchased for nothing.

When iggy tires to say something he most often shows he's completely incapable of thinking for himself, isn't mechanical and has no metalworking or welding skills.

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:48:17 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

> Jon ant even lie artistically on Usenet.

I kick your lying, deadbeat, worthless ass to the curb on almost a daily basis on Usenet, Wieber.

I've have kicked you to the curb so hard you have no idea which way is up.

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:45:21 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

> Jon uses a computer at the library. They dont let him do websites.

More lies you can't back up, Wieber?

What library do I post from?

We all know where you post from, Wieber. You post from a shit hole that's liened up the wazoo. The shit hole you live in is on a small lot littered with worthless garbage. Annexed on to the shit hole you live in is a dirt floor machine shop.

You're so poor, Wieber that you can't even pay your rent and have roommates. You blame liberal Democrats for your sorry lot in life rather than your own failings.

If all this isn't bad enough, Wieber you have constantly lied about the size of the small lot you live on . Where you live is most likely a hot bed of meth users. Have they started to film Breaking Stupid at your house yet?

[dca...@krl.org]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:


> Once again you show yourself to be a clueless moron.

Smart enough to know that you have no website or home shop.

Dan

[dca...@krl.org]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 1:12:25 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

> iggy, never really has much to say other than bragging about what he has purchased for nothing.
>
>
>
> When iggy tires to say something he most often shows he's completely incapable of thinking for himself, isn't mechanical and has no metalworking or welding skills

So post a link to pictures of some metalworking that you have done lately. From what you have posted , I would say you are the one whe is not mechanical and has no metalworking or welding skills. Have you ever posted about anything that you have done.

Dan

[Gunner Asch]

That includes roaches under our sinks.

[jon_banquer]

Dumb enough to not realize why I don't need a home shop even after being told many times why.

Dumb enough not to realize what my LinkedIn connections and group should tell you.

[jon_banquer]

I have posted links showing some of the shops I've worked in, tools, techniques I use, etc.

That you wish to continue to lie about this isn't something I control. Your posts frequently prove you to be a fool. This is yet another example of you showing what a fool you truly are.

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 11:38:56 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

> That includes roaches under our sinks.

No doubt the shit hole you live in is roach filled.

[Ignoramus30725]

On 2013-10-14, dca...@krl.org <dca...@krl.org> wrote:

And a website is so easy to have...

i

[Michael A. Terrell]

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Ignoramus wrote:

>
> >Gunner Asch wrote:
> >>
> >> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
> >
> >That's not really saying much.
>
> That includes roaches under our sinks.

Even if they were all dead roaches.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>
> I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?

In a 20 ton press?

[jon_banquer]

Good website design is so easy to have if you care and you have a clue. As per usual, iggy doesn't care and has no clues.

Thinking iggy took lessons in website design from fellow idiot, Larry Jackass.

[Ignoramus30725]

On 2013-10-14, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:06:14 -0500, Ignoramus30725
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.30725.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2013-10-14, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 18:25:38 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
>>><dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:07:28 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.
>>>>
>>>>So you are saying that you do not have a website, but feel no one will realise that. Sorry but most of the people here are smarter than that.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>>
>>That's not really saying much.
>
> That includes roaches under our sinks.
>

I often tell my kids, please stop whining and acting stupid, or else
you may grow up like jon banquer.

i

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 5:08:27 PM UTC-7, Ignoramus30725 wrote:
> On 2013-10-14, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:06:14 -0500, Ignoramus30725
>
> ><ignoram...@NOSPAM.30725.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>On 2013-10-14, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 18:25:38 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
>
> >>><dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>>On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:07:28 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>> > Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>So you are saying that you do not have a website, but feel no one will realise that. Sorry but most of the people here are smarter than that.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Dan
>
> >>>
>
> >>> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>
> >>
>
> >>That's not really saying much.
>
> >
>
> > That includes roaches under our sinks.
>
> >
>
>
>
> I often tell my kids, please stop whining and acting stupid, or else
>
> you may grow up like jon banquer.
>
>
>
> i

If they're whining and acting stupid you can bet they take after their father.

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:37:47 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>>
>> I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?
>
>
> In a 20 ton press?

I wonder if Jon will enlighten the group about that rather infamous
event at Westec? Im sure he has healed up by now.

<VBG>

How about it Jonboi? Want to tell the boys how you got the shit
knocked out of you in public at Westec?

http://home.earthlink.net/~cadcamcnc/data/The%20Truth%20about%20Jon%20Banquer-Part%20II.pdf
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.machines.cnc/2012-06/msg00111.html


Oh there are lots of other articles out there..from multiple writers
who know him. Lots

Which is why he resides in every killfile Ive ever setup. I wont deal
with him..the need for a shower afterwards is overcoming and Ive
better things to do.

Gunner

--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 02:46:06 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 18:25:38 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
><dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:07:28 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
>>
>>> > Please post the URl of your web site so I can see what a good website looks like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You wouldn't know what a good web site looked like if it was shoved up your ass sideways.
>>
>>So you are saying that you do not have a website, but feel no one will realise that. Sorry but most of the people here are smarter than that.
>>
>> Dan
>
>Everyone here is smarter than Jon.

Dan apparently isn't. (He hasn't plonked jon yet.)

>I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?

Someone please be sure to post the humorous pics.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 5:45:33 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

> I wonder if Jon will enlighten the group about that rather infamous
>
> event at Westec? Im sure he has healed up by now.

You still haven't healed from the brain damage your stroke caused, Wieber as your lying has continued to increase. See above.

> How about it Jonboi? Want to tell the boys how you got the shit
>
> knocked out of you in public at Westec?

Never happened. Internet gossip spread by lying scumbags with an axe to grind.

> Oh there are lots of other articles out there..from multiple writers
>
> who know him. Lots

There sure are. Here's one. Can you post a link to one about you? :>)


http://cadinsider.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/06/siemens-plm-promises-support-of-solid-edge-again.html

How about you tell this group how you tried to connect with me on LinkedIn and I refused your offer. How do my skills that I'm endorsed for and my connections compare to yours, Wieber?

BBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Stick to Facebook, Wieber. It's more your speed.

> Which is why he resides in every killfile Ive ever setup. I wont deal
>
> with him..the need for a shower afterwards is overcoming and Ive
>
> better things to do.

You won't deal with me or many others who kick your worthless, lying ass to the curb on a constant basis, Wieber. Too bad we know exactly who and what you are, and that there isn't a damn thing you can do about it except make your phoney death threats. :>)

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 5:50:28 PM UTC-7, Larry Jaques wrote:

> Someone please be sure to post the humorous pics.

Here is a humorous picture of "home and garden handyman" Larry Jackass:

http://tinyurl.com/mnnglut

Larry Jackass's LinkedIn profile has life long loser written all over it:

"College majors would have included electrical and mechanical engineering had I gone to college, but I wanted to get straight to tech school and into work out of high school. I've always had an affinity for machines (and they for me) and how things work. I recently researched CNC machining am just now getting a computer controlled router into operation (Dec 2013) for artistic and signmaking endeavors. Building and fabrication are in my blood. Stay tuned for more exciting episodes in the multi-faceted life Larry lives."

[dca...@krl.org]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 3:11:05 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

>
>
> I have posted links showing some of the shops I've worked in, tools, techniques I use, etc.
>
>
>
> That you wish to continue to lie about this isn't something I control. Your posts frequently prove you to be a fool. This is yet another example of you showing what a fool you truly are.

I have not lied about anything. I have merely asked you to post the URL of your website and post a link to your home shop.

Funny but I do not see anyone siding with you and supporting your statements. And it would be so easy to post the URL to your website, if you had a website.

Dan

[RogerN]

At least give Obama credit for the new toy, My Little Phony!

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/995203_10202222090898334_1237762820_n.jpg

[Jeff M]

On 10/14/2013 8:54 PM, RogerN wrote:
> At least give Obama credit for the new toy, My Little Phony!
>
> https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/995203_10202222090898334_1237762820_n.jpg

That made me laugh!


--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith

[jon_banquer]

You have lied and you constantly use misdirection. I've answered your question numerous times before and you know it, shit bag.

The problem is that you don't like my answer because I get to use better equipment than you will ever own and I don't have to pay a cent to use it... ever.

When you claim "I don't see anyone siding with you and supporting your statement" this shows how weak you truly are because you need others to stand behind you to justify your lies and misdirection. The fact is most people don't give a shit where I machine but you can't seem to grasp this fact because you have shit for brains and you can't think independently.

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:54:29 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

>At least give Obama credit for the new toy, My Little Phony!
>
>https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/995203_10202222090898334_1237762820_n.jpg
>
>
>

Marvelous! Christmas time is coming! Where can I find them???

[dca...@krl.org]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 10:26:21 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

>
>
> You have lied and you constantly use misdirection. I've answered your question numerous times before and you know it, shit bag.
>

You have answered numerous times but in the same manner as you now answer. No facts, just assertions.

>
>
> The problem is that you don't like my answer because I get to use better equipment than you will ever own and I don't have to pay a cent to use it... ever.
>

I really do not care if you use better equipment. What I have is what I bought and it is usually adequate for the Recreational Metalworking that I do. If I wanted better tools, I could buy them. For me machining is a hobby.

And I do not need anyone to stand behind me. I was just pointing out that you seem to have no one that believes you could do better when you say a website is lame. I just have no respect for someone that talks big but does not actually do much.

Dan

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:58:41 PM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:


It's very easy to see who endorses my skill set and just how successful my blogs and LinkedIn group is. Face it, you're a moron with no clues and you need someone like Wieber just to help you wipe your ass.

"I was just pointing out that you seem to have no one that believes you could do better when you say a website is lame. I just have no respect for someone that talks big but does not actually do much."

I have no respect for someone who can't think for himself and is too lazy to do his homework. If you did get off your lazy ass and started doing your homework, you would find out if I knew what I'm talking about or not. Instead you would rather relying on what morons like Wieber, iggy, Larry Jackass, "slow Eddy" and KiddingNoOne tell you. You're only slightingly more intelligent than these idiots are and that's no compliment. Now sit down and shut up because you have nothing to say.

[Ignoramus30725]

On 2013-10-15, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:37:47 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>
>>> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>>>
>>> I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?
>>
>>
>> In a 20 ton press?
>
> I wonder if Jon will enlighten the group about that rather infamous
> event at Westec? Im sure he has healed up by now.
>
><VBG>
>
> How about it Jonboi? Want to tell the boys how you got the shit
> knocked out of you in public at Westec?
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~cadcamcnc/data/The%20Truth%20about%20Jon%20Banquer-Part%20II.pdf
> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.machines.cnc/2012-06/msg00111.html

What happened at Westec?

i

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 8:54:19 PM UTC-7, Ignoramus30725 wrote:

> What happened at Westec?


How would Wieber know? He wasn't there.

All Wieber can do is lie like he most often does or post worthless gossip.

Worthless gossip is exactly what morons like iggy live for because it's much easier than focusing on building real talent and real mechanical skill.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:37:47 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Gunner Asch wrote:
> >>
> >> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
> >>
> >> I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?
> >
> >
> > In a 20 ton press?
>
> I wonder if Jon will enlighten the group about that rather infamous
> event at Westec? Im sure he has healed up by now.
>
> <VBG>
>
> How about it Jonboi? Want to tell the boys how you got the shit
> knocked out of you in public at Westec?
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~cadcamcnc/data/The%20Truth%20about%20Jon%20Banquer-Part%20II.pdf
> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.machines.cnc/2012-06/msg00111.html
>
> Oh there are lots of other articles out there..from multiple writers
> who know him. Lots
>
> Which is why he resides in every killfile Ive ever setup. I wont deal
> with him..the need for a shower afterwards is overcoming and Ive
> better things to do.

I killfiled him not long after I started reading the group. His
absurd 'rules for buying' told me he was an insane loser. Who would by
anything from a liar like him?

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:54:19 -0500, Ignoramus30725
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.30725.invalid> wrote:

>On 2013-10-15, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:37:47 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>><mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Everyone here is smarter than Jon.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if he will be punched out at Westec again this year?
>>>
>>>
>>> In a 20 ton press?
>>
>> I wonder if Jon will enlighten the group about that rather infamous
>> event at Westec? Im sure he has healed up by now.
>>
>><VBG>
>>
>> How about it Jonboi? Want to tell the boys how you got the shit
>> knocked out of you in public at Westec?
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~cadcamcnc/data/The%20Truth%20about%20Jon%20Banquer-Part%20II.pdf
>> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.machines.cnc/2012-06/msg00111.html
>
>What happened at Westec?

Id suggest asking Jonboi for the details.....snicker

>
>i
>
>>
>> Oh there are lots of other articles out there..from multiple writers
>> who know him. Lots
>>
>> Which is why he resides in every killfile Ive ever setup. I wont deal
>> with him..the need for a shower afterwards is overcoming and Ive
>> better things to do.
>>
>> Gunner
>>

[dca...@krl.org]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 11:30:23 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
> On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:58:41 PM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> It's very easy to see who endorses my skill set and just how successful my globs and LinkedIn group is. Face it, you're a moron with no clues and you need someone like Wieber just to help you wipe your ass.

>
>
>

>
> I have no respect for someone who can't think for himself and is too lazy to do his homework. If you did get off your lazy ass and started doing your homework, you would find out if I knew what I'm talking about or not. Instead you would rather relying on what morons like Wieber, iggy, Larry Jackass, "slow Eddy" and KiddingNoOne tell you. You're only slightingly more intelligent than these idiots are and that's no compliment. Now sit down and shut up because you have nothing to say.

I do not need to go searching the internet to find out if you know what you are talking about. And do not need te rely on others, I can see plenty of your posts right here in this news group. But I never see where you have given any good advise to anyone.

Now if you were really good, you could lead by example, rather than post derogatory remarks about what others have done.

Dan

[jon_banquer]

You're a fucking moron with no clues.

[jon_banquer]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:48:11 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:

> Id suggest asking Jonboi for the details.....snicker

Not a chance. iggy doesn't want facts and neither do you.

[jon_banquer]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 11:57:46 PM UTC-7, Michael Terrell wrote:

>
> I killfiled him not long after I started reading the group. His
>
> absurd 'rules for buying' told me he was an insane loser. Who would by
>
> anything from a liar like him?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
>
> have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Terrell must be confusing me with his cult leader, Mark Wieber who does nothing but lie.

Terrell couldn't afford to buy anything I have for sale as he can't even afford to fix his leaking roofs.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:13:36 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:




> > I do not need to go searching the internet to find out if you know what you are talking about. And do not need te rely on others, I can see plenty of your posts right here in this news group. But I never see where you have given any good advise to anyone.
>
> >
>
> > Now if you were really good, you could lead by example, rather than post derogatory remarks about what others have done.
>
> > Dan
>
> You're a fucking moron with no clues.

So go ahead and post your website's URL and show me up. Or post a link to pictures of your shop that show how well organized it is.

Otherwise shut up and do not comment on those that have done better than you.

Dan

[jon_banquer]

I'll post nothing and you'll like it.