Ed Cuntress latest meltdown

[Red Prepper]

Ed's circling the bowl, won't be long now. Bye bye stupid cunt in a
dress.

[Ed Huntress]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 09:10:05 -0600, Red Prepper <r...@red.com> wrote:

>Ed's circling the bowl, won't be long now. Bye bye stupid cunt in a
>dress.

Yo, Winston and Don: It looks like the Pecker was trying to vandalize
RCM and he fucked up. This was posted to RCM at 10:10 AM, one minute
after his string of spam ended.

You're both notorious on RCM now. <g>

--
Ed Huntress

[Red Prepper]

Nobody cares what you have to say in alt.survival you cross posting,
cross dressing cunt in a dress

[Winston_Smith]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 18:27:53 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 09:10:05 -0600, Red Prepper wrote:
>
>>Ed's circling the bowl, won't be long now. Bye bye stupid cunt in a
>>dress.
>
>Yo, Winston and Don: It looks like the Pecker was trying to vandalize
>RCM and he fucked up. This was posted to RCM at 10:10 AM, one minute
>after his string of spam ended.

He remembered FIDO net. Hot stuff 30 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet
I suspect he never actually used it or his memory is failing. One of
dozens of toys we had to play with back then. A network before Al Gore
invented the internet.

Still, it is one of a dozen old protocols that would have a value in a
survival situation so it's on topic here in a.s.

Pretty arcane stuff to some of the younger folks. Ahh, the good old
days when you had to be able to count to 1 and understand the concept
of zero to get to play.

>You're both notorious on RCM now. <g>

My apologies to the good members of RCM. Of course it is nice to have
an assigned status even if it's only honorary.

Does this mean I have to buy a machine tool now?

[Red Prepper]

Pretty arcane except for a Luddite like you. Why don't you two cunts
get a room over at RCM and you can fantasize about me slapping your
cunts with my high speed CAT 5 cable.

[Winston_Smith]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 19:02:04 -0600, Red Prepper <r...@red.com> wrote:

> you can fantasize about my high speed CAT 5 cable.

It might help if you wrap it around your head a few turns and plug
each end into one of your ears.

I'm not hopeful but there is an outside chance it will get your brain
up to speed. Right now it's crawling at sub-walker level.

[Ed Huntress]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 17:24:11 -0700, Winston_Smith

No, you start by learning to chip and file. That is, you learn to use
a chisel, which is how they made steam locomotives in the early days,
and you learn to file to within a couple of thousandths of an inch.

They had no machine tools to speak of, except for a few crude lathes.

Then you graduate to a cordless drill. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:dc4e6d9tfev9ne8qt...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 17:24:11 -0700, Winston_Smith
> <inv...@butterfly.net> wrote:
>

>>..

>>My apologies to the good members of RCM. Of course it is nice to
>>have
>>an assigned status even if it's only honorary.
>>
>>Does this mean I have to buy a machine tool now?
>
> No, you start by learning to chip and file. That is, you learn to
> use
> a chisel, which is how they made steam locomotives in the early
> days,
> and you learn to file to within a couple of thousandths of an inch.
>
> They had no machine tools to speak of, except for a few crude
> lathes.
>
> Then you graduate to a cordless drill. d8-)
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

He isn't kidding. I have the machine tools but this week I used a
chisel, upright in the anvil's hardy hole, to cut 1/4" steel rod in
half at the balance point and a hacksaw to trim one end after
hammering the rod into scissors tongs.

Much of what I make is too large or awkward to clamp in a machine
tool. For some common, simple things like belt guards or car fender
rust repair patches there isn't a machine that can make one of them
easily without some hand work.

-jsw

[Red Prepper]

You can use it the hang yourself as you masturbate to pictures of Ed
in his cunt dress.

[Red Prepper]

This would be a good post for RCM. Trimming out alt.survival. Carry
on.

[Winston_Smith]

I believe that. Somewhere in my collection of old books is one for the
apprentice blacksmith. In the first few chapters you learn just a few
very basic techniques in isolation. Then you use them to make a simple
tool. Next chapter you get a new skill and use it and your one tool to
make a second tool. Next, a third skill and you use the first two
tools to make a third tool. When you are done, you have practiced all
the basic skills and have a full set of blacksmith's tools. The set is
the master work you present to for graduation.

Always struck me as a good curriculum.

In a way, the mountain men, pioneers, etc just carried the tools they
would need to make the tools they would need to homestead. Usually
just the metal parts planning to provide the rest with indigenousness
materials.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Winston_Smith" <inv...@butterfly.net> wrote in message
news:d4if6dl9rnnk5g0u4...@4ax.com...

Those skills still apply in modern life. I just fixed a neighbor's
broken tubular snow shovel handle with a splice made from oak
firewood. The ID is 1-1/16", not a standard dowel size. I did use a
metal lathe with woodworking spur and cup centers to turn it to size
quickly.

Machine tools don't help much when you are fixing a riding mower or
drilling out a broken exhaust manifold stud. .
-jsw

[rbowman]

On 01/23/2018 04:51 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> I believe that. Somewhere in my collection of old books is one for the
> apprentice blacksmith. In the first few chapters you learn just a few
> very basic techniques in isolation. Then you use them to make a simple
> tool. Next chapter you get a new skill and use it and your one tool to
> make a second tool. Next, a third skill and you use the first two
> tools to make a third tool. When you are done, you have practiced all
> the basic skills and have a full set of blacksmith's tools. The set is
> the master work you present to for graduation.

http://gingerybookstore.com/MetalWorkingShopFromScrap.html

First we'll build a foundry out of that junk in the shed...

[Ed Huntress]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:51:13 -0700, Winston_Smith
<inv...@butterfly.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 05:46:45 -0500, Ed Huntress
><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 17:24:11 -0700, Winston_Smith
>><inv...@butterfly.net> wrote:
>
>>>Does this mean I have to buy a machine tool now?
>>
>>No, you start by learning to chip and file. That is, you learn to use
>>a chisel, which is how they made steam locomotives in the early days,
>>and you learn to file to within a couple of thousandths of an inch.
>>
>>They had no machine tools to speak of, except for a few crude lathes.
>>
>>Then you graduate to a cordless drill. d8-)
>
>I believe that. Somewhere in my collection of old books is one for the
>apprentice blacksmith. In the first few chapters you learn just a few
>very basic techniques in isolation. Then you use them to make a simple
>tool. Next chapter you get a new skill and use it and your one tool to
>make a second tool. Next, a third skill and you use the first two
>tools to make a third tool. When you are done, you have practiced all
>the basic skills and have a full set of blacksmith's tools. The set is
>the master work you present to for graduation.
>
>Always struck me as a good curriculum.

Yes, that's similar to what they'll teach you in a good blacksmith
course today, although many people want to start off by making
decorative objects. It's mostly an arts and crafts thing these days,
but there are some traditionalists who teach it and treat it as a
serious profession.

My cousin -- the one who was a Marine sniper in Laos -- became an
itinerant farrier, travelling from race track to race track, going
north and south with the racing seasons, shoeing horses and forging
other bits and pieces for the horsey set. He had a pickup camper
converted into a compact blacksmith shop, with a propane-fired forge
and an anvil. It helped that he was kind of short and could stand up
in there. <g> He made really good money at it until he got hit and
killed by a car.

>
>In a way, the mountain men, pioneers, etc just carried the tools they
>would need to make the tools they would need to homestead. Usually
>just the metal parts planning to provide the rest with indigenousness
>materials.

They sure couldn't carry much. A little blacksmithing skill had to go
a long way. If you knew how they forged an ax head in those days,
you'd probably be surprised. Only a very small piece of the head was
made of steel. Steel was treated like a precious metal at that time.
Blacksmiths mostly worked with a fairly soft material-- wrought iron.
You couldn't cut a single tree down with a wrought-iron ax without
stopping to re-forge and sharpen the edge multiple times. A little
piece of steel made all the difference, and getting it in there and
keeping it there is a very demanding blacksmithing skill.

Since we're discussing RCM, you'd note, if you hung out here, that
there is a huge variety of skills and special interests involved in
metalworking. We've had jewelry makers, blacksmiths and knife makers,
gunsmiths, model machinists and metalcasters, and many more
specialties. There often is a lot of overlap but some people focus on
a very narrow range of skills.

For some of us, like me, the biggest interest is in learning and
developing old skills that are nearly forgotten. My main interest is
in the toolmaking methods developed before roughly 1940. "Toolmaking,"
in this context, means making super-accurate production jigs and
fixtures for manufacturing production, the things that helped us to
win WWII. I don't make production tools, but I make similar tools for
manual use, using some of the same methods. If you looked at them
you'd just see unfathomable lumps of metal with some holes in them. To
me, they're things of beauty. d8-)

Anyway, for anyone who plans to live off the grid or who anticipates
the collapse of human society, some manual metalworking skills would
be good learning targets. When you look at the way things were made as
we entered the industrial age, you'll see that most important objects
(looms, guns, carriages, steam engines, hand tools) were made and
developed without much, if any, machinery. Those old manual methods
are slow (but not always as slow as you might think, as Jim pointed
out) and they required practice. But anyone of average ability can
learn to do them.

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:i0og6d50jioqlsr9u...@4ax.com...

https://archive.org/details/The_Modern_Blacksmith_Alexander_G._Weygers

[Ed Huntress]

Yeah, that's a really good one. I forgot I have that book. Jeez.

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Winston_Smith" <inv...@butterfly.net> wrote in message
news:d4if6dl9rnnk5g0u4...@4ax.com...

You are unlikely to need to make a chisel or file
https://www.netris.org/RIToolmakers/FILEMAKING/File-making-H-M.html
but skill at using them is still valuable.

The log splitter I bought second-hand had an engine mounting plate
that had warped from welding and distorted the crankcase when the
bolts were tightened. I straightened it by grinding down the
diagonally opposite corners that a steel plate rocked on, then filing
high spots until the engine's weight would catch slips of paper placed
under all four corners.
-jsw

[Winston_Smith]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 18:40:18 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>|| https://archive.org/details/The_Modern_Blacksmith_Alexander_G._Weygers

>You are unlikely to need to make a chisel or file
> https://www.netris.org/RIToolmakers/FILEMAKING/File-making-H-M.html
>but skill at using them is still valuable.

Thank you.

[Ed Huntress]

Back in the late '70s I wrote a profile about the guy who ran the
industrial museum at Paterson, NJ (Alexander Hamilton's national
industrial project) for the 100th anniversay issue of American
Machinist. Paterson was the home of Rogers Locomotive Works, where
they built more than 6,000 steam locomotives starting in the 1830s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Locomotive_and_Machine_Works

Anyway, the old locomotive works' main shop was excavated in the
1970s, and what they found on the floor was, literally, layers of old
worn-out files, which had been made by hand (later by a file-making
machine) with a chisel and a forge. If you count the hammer blows
needed to make those file teeth one at a time is must have been in the
billions.

It must have been great exercise. BTW, you could tell a blacksmith in
those days because one arm (usually his left) looked normal, and the
other looked like an ad for Charles Atlas.

--
Ed Huntress

[rangerssuck]

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 11:23:17 PM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:

>
> It must have been great exercise. BTW, you could tell a blacksmith in
> those days because one arm (usually his left) looked normal, and the
> other looked like an ad for Charles Atlas.
>

With large and sinewy hands.

[Mike Spencer]

Making a file is a real trick and modern ones are (or were before
Nicholson got borged) just great. But I probably have a couple of
dozen chisels that I've reforged from store-boughten or flea market
cold chisels. You need all kinds of shapes -- hot splitting,
engraving, undecutting for inlay, rivet shearing etc. that aren't
articles of commerce. Some small ones I've made from heavy garage
door or other springs but the material in a commecial cold chisel is
usually a good starting point.

Ed's observation about steeling wrought iron axes is right on. The
wrought iron was shaped, then wrapped on a mandrel to form the eye.
The bit was formed from a piece of steel forge welded between the two
sides of the folded iron. It's easily observed in very rusty old axes
if you clean one up with acid or electrolysis. I haven't seen a
double bit axe made that waymyself but I suppose it was similar except
from two pieces of iron rather than folding.

Sometimes an extra piece of wrought iron was forge welded to the poll
with its grain running fore and aft -- parallel to the helve -- to
help protect the shape of the eye when the poll was (mis?)used as a
maul/hammer.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote in message
news:87h8r5u...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

I've read of several methods by which a smith could adjust the carbon
content to make small pieces of steel. The descriptions don't address
the practicality or difficulty of them, or say how the smith might
judge the results.

I learned to analyze steel by the wet chemical process, though the
only hands-on practice we got was polishing, etching and examining
test specimens to estimate the Martensite content.
https://vacaero.com/information-resources/metallography-with-george-vander-voort/1391-martensite-and-the-control-of-retained-austenite.html

How would you convert scrap mild steel or cast iron into tool steel?

-jsw

[Ed Huntress]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 07:12:57 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

For scrap mild steel, you deep case-harden it in a furnace, overnight
or more. It can be done in a forge but you need to have near-perfect
control of the draft to keep the steel from oxidizing. A graphite
(carbon) heat-treating boat, or a coating of fireclay or stainless
steel foil, enclosing the carburizing material (from powdered bone to
coke, and other sources -- charred rawhide and reindeer horn are
favored <g>) is necessary for anything more than a thin case.

This is limited to small pieces, because the depth of the case isn't
going to be more than 1/8 inch or so from each side. In a modern,
controlled-atmosphere furnace with a strong carburizing atmosphere,
you may reach 1/4 inch.

The mild-steel to tool-steel conversion is straightforward because all
you have to do is to increase the carbon content, from something like
0.1% - 0.2% to 0.8% - 1.0%.

Gray cast iron is another kettle of fish. The carbon content is
already over 3% and it contains slag and an excess of sulfur, silica,
and perhaps phosphorus, calcium and other impurities. The process
involves oxidizing the carbon to reduce the percentage, and beating
the crap out of it to bring the slag to the surface, and then getting
rid of the slag. "Puddling" in a furnace made for conversion of gray
iron to wrought iron will get rid of carbon but it just stirs the
other crap into the molten metal.

There were a few such procedures for making small pieces of steel in
the old days but they're pretty deep in the folklore and magic of
ironwork. Maybe Mike knows how it can be done today.

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:8ohu6dphaitejen5q...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 07:12:57 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>>...

>>How would you convert scrap mild steel or cast iron into tool steel?
>>-jsw
>>
>
> For scrap mild steel, you deep case-harden it in a furnace,
> overnight
> or more. It can be done in a forge but you need to have near-perfect
> control of the draft to keep the steel from oxidizing. A graphite
> (carbon) heat-treating boat, or a coating of fireclay or stainless
> steel foil, enclosing the carburizing material (from powdered bone
> to
> coke, and other sources -- charred rawhide and reindeer horn are
> favored <g>) is necessary for anything more than a thin case.

> ...
> Ed Huntress

I've packed steel in charcoal inside a one-use packet made from a
flattened tin can, and left it in the wood stove overnight. I didn't
follow it up to see if it made a good knife, though.

The Peak Oil blogger I quoted also wrote this, which is relevant to
us:
http://survivepeakoil.blogspot.com/2016/02/bargain-hunting-in-post-apocalyptic.html

-jsw

[Mike Spencer]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> writes:

> How would you convert scrap mild steel or cast iron into tool steel?

Ed has covered it better than I could in another post.

I wouldn't even try to "convert". I've done case hardening of m/s
occasionally with good results for the intended purpose -- one-use
wood chisel, all-purpose household tool etc. using Casenite (IIRC a
British product that may no longer be available due to cyanide
hazard.) Hammer a short piece of exhaust pipe closed on one end, weld
on a long handle, put some Casenite in the bottom, insert the m/s
object, put in a low forge fire to soak for 10 minutes to an hour,
chuck the whole thing into water to harden the case. The tube keeps
the air off the workpiece, confines the hardening compound to close
contact with the workpiece. YMMV and all that.

In another post, Ed replied, "Maybe Mike knows how it can be done
today."

If you know about "Damascus" or "Wootz" steel, you may or may not be
the victim of a lot of misinformation that's been circulating for a
few decades. Not to be confused with "pattern-welded" steel as seen
in fancy pre-WW I Belgian shotgun barrels and some very lovely modern
knives and jewelry.

This guy:

http://www.northshoreforge.com/page6/index.html

has ressurected the making of Wootz steel in a crucible. I've watched
him do it, looked at the buiscuit of Wootz produced. I've never tried
to forge a piece of the product myself. If you're keen on making your
own crucible steel, contact Greg. If you're a Neal Stephenson fan (or
might like to be :-) there's an entertaining account of making Wootz
in 17th c. India in his _The Confusion_, the middle volume of his
_Baroque Cycle_.

If you're just thinking of post-apocalyptic skills and resources, far
easier, less error prone and less time consuming to stockpile old
coil/truck/other springs, axles, jackhammer bits and the like,
experiment with what heat treatment each specimen responds to well.
My first forged tool was a hardy made from a VW Beetle rear axle;
still in use. The leaf springs that make up the compound torsion
springs of an old VW Beetle are an air-hardening steel with remarkable
properties. I made a tine for my roto-tiller from new leaf-spring
stock that's been good for eight or nine years. (Old leaf springs tend
to have fine cracks, resulting in disappointing results when
reforged.) Grovel, collect, experiment.

[Ed Huntress]

On 29 Jan 2018 20:23:37 -0400, Mike Spencer

Those are important tips. I knew that VW bug front-suspension steel
was good, but I never worked with it. I needed it in my VW. <g>

There is a video show that might be interesting to some folks here. A
guy (Tim Zowada) makes a knife -- after making his own steel. It
surprised me, but the blacksmiths may find it ho-hum.

It's part of the Craftsman's Legacy series -- Season 1, Episode 10,
"The Knife Maker." It's available on Amazon (free with Prime) and it's
on PBS from time to time.

I'm a subscriber so I can watch it online; I don't know if this will
work for anyone else, but give it a try:

http://www.craftsmanslegacy.com/legacy_society

The shows are enjoyable but they're really starting points for anyone
interested in the particular technologies and crafts.

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote in message

news:874ln4u...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

That's what I meant about making tool steel from cast iron. The carbon
content of such hypereutectoid steel lowers its melting point into the
low-tech-accessible range.

If you happen into New England here is a supplier of crucibles and
other foundry equipment:
http://www.mgstevens.com/

> If you're a Neal Stephenson fan (or
> might like to be :-) there's an entertaining account of making
> Wootz
> in 17th c. India in his _The Confusion_, the middle volume of his
> _Baroque Cycle_.

The original "Cryptonomicon" was Bishop Wilkins' book "Mercury, or the
Secret and Swift Messenger".

> If you're just thinking of post-apocalyptic skills and resources,
> far
> easier, less error prone and less time consuming to stockpile old
> coil/truck/other springs, axles, jackhammer bits and the like,
> experiment with what heat treatment each specimen responds to well.

I do have a stock of old springs, axles, chainsaw bars and jackhammer
bits for pre-apocalyptic retiree puttering. What sort of steel might
an old farm wagon front axle be? I think it's too rust-pitted to
salvage as an antique. The corrosion doesn't reveal the striations of
wrought iron.

> My first forged tool was a hardy made from a VW Beetle rear axle;
> still in use. The leaf springs that make up the compound torsion
> springs of an old VW Beetle are an air-hardening steel with
> remarkable
> properties. I made a tine for my roto-tiller from new leaf-spring
> stock that's been good for eight or nine years. (Old leaf springs
> tend
> to have fine cracks, resulting in disappointing results when
> reforged.) Grovel, collect, experiment.
>
> --
> Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

I raided the scrap bins at a local maker of new truck springs and a
hydraulic cylinder rebuilder. I'm more machinist than smith so I
anneal, machine, harden and surface-grind cutting tools.

-jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote in message

news:874ln4u...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

> .......

> Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_a/articles/wootz_in_china.pdf

[Mike Spencer]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> writes:

> https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_a/articles/wootz_in_china.pdf

Very interesting. Thanks for that.

--

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote in message

news:87zi4vt...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

Though I can't claim expertise in either, I studied metallurgy in
college and have an interest in the history and hands-on practice of
technology. I would do more blacksmithing if I had a safe and legal
place to operate my home-made charcoal forge.

[Terry Coombs]

  Are you sure ? I found the lathe to be a great asset when repairing a
blown-out spark plug in our Toyota . Also the same repair in a Mazda
(Ford Escape) V6 , I used it to machine guide bushings in both cases . I
used the mill to machine out the hole in the side of the Kohler motor on
my tractor . IIRC you used a mill to fabricate a steering gear for your
tractor . You might not use the machine tool directly for the repair ,
but in a support role ... often indispensable . Yesterday I fabricated a
new drag bar for my tiller . Used the band saw , mill , and MIG welder .
Still need to drill the holes , which will use the mill again . My drill
press is way too wimpy for 1/2" holes in 1/2" steel flat bar .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown