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McDonald's stores targeted by protests for $15/hour, union
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$15 An Hour! Snicker...
Apr 21, 2016, 8:36:07 PM4/21/16
to
NEW YORK -- Protesters calling for pay of $15 an hour and a
union were at McDonald's restaurants around the country and
overseas Thursday as part of an ongoing push targeting the
world's biggest hamburger chain.
The "Fight for $15" campaign says low-wage employees including
airport workers, adjunct professors and home care workers turned
out to show their solidarity with fast-food workers. They say
they're targeting McDonald's because of its ability to influence
pay practices throughout the economy.
The push is being backed by the Service Employees International
Union and began in late 2012, with striking fast-food workers in
New York City. Since then, the growing demonstrations have
helped make hourly pay a major political issue.
The success has prompted organizers to expand their push to
energize new swaths of workers to fight for higher pay and
unionization.
Organizers said strikes and protests were planned for cities
including Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Miami. In Paris,
about 100 people waving red union flags protested outside a
McDonald's restaurant at Disneyland.
In New York, demonstrators were planning to march crosstown to a
Republican gala in the early evening.
The campaign is taking place as McDonald's Corp. tries to
reinvigorate its business and win back customers. This week,
executives met with franchisees in Florida for a bi-annual
convention and discussed plans for a rebound.
Lisa McComb, a McDonald's representative, said the company gives
workers access to programs that help them earn high school and
college degrees. She noted McDonald's raised pay last year at
company-owned stores in the U.S., which account for about 10
percent of its more than 14,000 locations. The hike for starting
pay was for $1 above the local minimum wage.
"We proudly invest in the future of those who work in McDonald's
restaurants," McComb said.
McDonald's workers called those measures a publicity stunt that
failed to address the difficulties they face.
Sepia Rasheen Coleman, a home care worker in Memphis, Tennessee,
said she became involved in the Fight for $15 campaign after an
organizer reached out to her on Facebook. She said she was
initially dismissive, but was later awed by the support for
workers she felt at her first demonstration.
Since then, Coleman said she has been to Washington, D.C., for
training on organizing protests.
"This is a mission, this is something I need to do," she said.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_29768711/mcdonalds-stores-
targeted-by-protests-15-hour-union?obref=obinsite
union were at McDonald's restaurants around the country and
overseas Thursday as part of an ongoing push targeting the
world's biggest hamburger chain.
The "Fight for $15" campaign says low-wage employees including
airport workers, adjunct professors and home care workers turned
out to show their solidarity with fast-food workers. They say
they're targeting McDonald's because of its ability to influence
pay practices throughout the economy.
The push is being backed by the Service Employees International
Union and began in late 2012, with striking fast-food workers in
New York City. Since then, the growing demonstrations have
helped make hourly pay a major political issue.
The success has prompted organizers to expand their push to
energize new swaths of workers to fight for higher pay and
unionization.
Organizers said strikes and protests were planned for cities
including Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Miami. In Paris,
about 100 people waving red union flags protested outside a
McDonald's restaurant at Disneyland.
In New York, demonstrators were planning to march crosstown to a
Republican gala in the early evening.
The campaign is taking place as McDonald's Corp. tries to
reinvigorate its business and win back customers. This week,
executives met with franchisees in Florida for a bi-annual
convention and discussed plans for a rebound.
Lisa McComb, a McDonald's representative, said the company gives
workers access to programs that help them earn high school and
college degrees. She noted McDonald's raised pay last year at
company-owned stores in the U.S., which account for about 10
percent of its more than 14,000 locations. The hike for starting
pay was for $1 above the local minimum wage.
"We proudly invest in the future of those who work in McDonald's
restaurants," McComb said.
McDonald's workers called those measures a publicity stunt that
failed to address the difficulties they face.
Sepia Rasheen Coleman, a home care worker in Memphis, Tennessee,
said she became involved in the Fight for $15 campaign after an
organizer reached out to her on Facebook. She said she was
initially dismissive, but was later awed by the support for
workers she felt at her first demonstration.
Since then, Coleman said she has been to Washington, D.C., for
training on organizing protests.
"This is a mission, this is something I need to do," she said.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_29768711/mcdonalds-stores-
targeted-by-protests-15-hour-union?obref=obinsite
Ignoramus12254
Apr 21, 2016, 10:51:20 PM4/21/16
to
Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
Ed Huntress
Apr 22, 2016, 12:52:48 AM4/22/16
to
On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
will be no one to buy the hamburgers, so there will be nothing with
which to pay them.
Hooray! Economic equilibrium! <g>
--
Ed Huntress
BTR1701
Apr 22, 2016, 2:35:25 AM4/22/16
to
Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
>
> What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
> will be no one to buy the hamburgers
Why would there be no one to buy the hamburgers?
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
>
> What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
> will be no one to buy the hamburgers
That statement only makes sense if you assume the only people who eat Big
Macs are McDonalds employees.
McDonalds in Japan have been using those automated kiosks for several years
now, and surprisingly, they still have customers.
FPP
Apr 22, 2016, 3:25:41 AM4/22/16
to
the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" epitomizes.
Not only will those fired not be eating there, but I'd imagine their
family and friends would be less than sympathetic to McDonalds from
then onward.
I know I would, and I doubt I'm alone. I have a whole list of
businesses I will never patronize again, for one reason or another.
--
Donald Trump on History:
"Our country is in serious trouble. We don't have victories any more."
"When did we beat Japan at anything?" -D Trump (Does World War II not
ring a bell?)
Ed Huntress
Apr 22, 2016, 5:49:43 AM4/22/16
to
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:35:22 -0500, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
>> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
>>
>> What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
>> will be no one to buy the hamburgers
>
>Why would there be no one to buy the hamburgers?
Because the displaced people have no jobs and can't afford hamburgers.
<g>
>
>That statement only makes sense if you assume the only people who eat Big
>Macs are McDonalds employees.
It was a joke.
>
>McDonalds in Japan have been using those automated kiosks for several years
>now, and surprisingly, they still have customers.
Blech. Do they still sell that wretched "Corn Potage Soup"?
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
>Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
>> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
>>
>> What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
>> will be no one to buy the hamburgers
>
>Why would there be no one to buy the hamburgers?
<g>
>
>That statement only makes sense if you assume the only people who eat Big
>Macs are McDonalds employees.
>
>McDonalds in Japan have been using those automated kiosks for several years
>now, and surprisingly, they still have customers.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
Apr 22, 2016, 9:26:13 AM4/22/16
to
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:35:22 -0500, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
response. Although I'm not researching or writing as much about the
actual economics of it right now, until 10 years ago, trade, the
manufacturing economy, and factors influencing employment were a major
part of my beat as a trade-magazine writer and editor. So I do take
your comments seriously.
There are several components to the issue and the research has been
highly contradictory -- does robotization, and automation in general,
kill jobs, or does it boost the economy and lead to greater job
growth?
The answer is "yes" to both questions. <g> There is a great deal of
argument about how much of each occurs.
Every day, I study and write about automation. There is no doubt that
automation creates fewer jobs than the number of workers who are
displaced. Given a static amount of output, there is no way it could
be otherwise.
But US output is not static. Over time, it has shown a nearly steady
increase, adjusted for inflation:
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GDPC1
The question is how much economic *growth* is created by improvements
in productivity, which occurs mostly through automation, and how many
jobs are thus created. The answer appears to be -- and there is no
consensus on this, nor is there an iron-clad theory about it -- the
growth is not sufficient to stimulate more good jobs, at least at the
relative wage levels of the jobs that are displaced.
As dynamic as our economy is, you can't project an absolute trendline
on these factors. You can only do it with a specific set of
assumptions about growth, and what type of growth you're talking
about. And there are too many variables, and often too many surprises,
to make such predictions.
Most economists now seem to agree, though, that the decline in
middle-class wage growth is at least partly due to improvements in
productivity.
--
Ed Huntress
Rudy Canoza
Apr 22, 2016, 10:51:14 AM4/22/16
to
On 4/22/2016 6:26 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:35:22 -0500, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
>>> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
>>>
>>> What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
>>> will be no one to buy the hamburgers
>>
>> Why would there be no one to buy the hamburgers?
>>
>> That statement only makes sense if you assume the only people who eat Big
>> Macs are McDonalds employees.
>>
>> McDonalds in Japan have been using those automated kiosks for several years
>> now, and surprisingly, they still have customers.
>
> Although I was joking with Iggy, maybe you want a more serious
> response. Although I'm not researching or writing as much about the
> actual economics of it right now, until 10 years ago, trade, the
> manufacturing economy, and factors influencing employment were a major
> part of my beat as a trade-magazine writer and editor.
You were and remain incompetent in economics.
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:35:22 -0500, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:51:18 -0500, Ignoramus12254
>>> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12254.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fire alll the people,. Replace them with robots. Problem solver.
>>>
>>> What are you going to pay the robots? Oh, nothing -- because there
>>> will be no one to buy the hamburgers
>>
>> Why would there be no one to buy the hamburgers?
>>
>> That statement only makes sense if you assume the only people who eat Big
>> Macs are McDonalds employees.
>>
>> McDonalds in Japan have been using those automated kiosks for several years
>> now, and surprisingly, they still have customers.
>
> Although I was joking with Iggy, maybe you want a more serious
> response. Although I'm not researching or writing as much about the
> actual economics of it right now, until 10 years ago, trade, the
> manufacturing economy, and factors influencing employment were a major
> part of my beat as a trade-magazine writer and editor.
Ed Huntress
Apr 22, 2016, 11:06:19 AM4/22/16
to
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 07:51:11 -0700, Rudy Canoza <c...@philhendrie.con>
wrote:
You were and remain a solipsistic crank locked onto his own navel.
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
--
Ed Huntress
Rudy Canoza
Apr 22, 2016, 1:42:09 PM4/22/16
to
Ed Huntress
Apr 22, 2016, 1:51:23 PM4/22/16
to
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 10:42:06 -0700, Rudy Canoza <c...@philhendrie.con>
I don't need "expertise." I just need to know who the experts are, and
ask them.
--
Ed Huntress
ask them.
--
Ed Huntress
Rudy Canoza
Apr 22, 2016, 1:58:22 PM4/22/16
to
You wrote in this thread as if you have expertise. You don't.
Ed Huntress
Apr 22, 2016, 2:06:36 PM4/22/16
to
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 10:58:19 -0700, Rudy Canoza <c...@philhendrie.con>
How would you know? Voices in your head again?
experts -- and then wrote about it.
My expertise is in manufacturing, including automation. I *wrote*
about manufacturing economics by interviewing and quoting experts.
--
Ed Huntress
>
>You wrote in this thread as if you have expertise.
Only in your febrile imagination. I researched it -- mostly guided by
>You wrote in this thread as if you have expertise.
experts -- and then wrote about it.
My expertise is in manufacturing, including automation. I *wrote*
about manufacturing economics by interviewing and quoting experts.
--
Ed Huntress
Ignoramus8832
Apr 22, 2016, 3:07:46 PM4/22/16
to
buy burgers.
The less economically valuable people, like the laid off burger
flippers, can boil rice at home, for which they will have plenty of
time after being replaced by robots.
i
Gunner Asch
Apr 23, 2016, 7:27:36 PM4/23/16
to
On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 02:24:27 +0200 (CEST), "$15 An Hour! Snicker..."
<idi...@dnc.org> wrote:
>The push is being backed by the Service Employees International
>Union and began in late 2012, with striking fast-food workers in
>New York City. Since then, the growing demonstrations have
>helped make hourly pay a major political issue.
On the other hand..the assholes who run the SEIU also are asking for
<idi...@dnc.org> wrote:
>The push is being backed by the Service Employees International
>Union and began in late 2012, with striking fast-food workers in
>New York City. Since then, the growing demonstrations have
>helped make hourly pay a major political issue.
this....
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/12/los-angeles-15-dollar-minimum-wage-unions
Exceptions to their wage increases....snicker
Gunner Asch
Apr 23, 2016, 7:28:52 PM4/23/16
to
for themselves, let alone think for themselves.. sad really.....
dca...@krl.org
Apr 24, 2016, 8:46:58 PM4/24/16
to
On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 3:25:41 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
>
> If you fire 420,000 people, it WILL have an impact on sales. It's what
> the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" epitomizes.
>
And if you do not automate and reduce the number of employees, your competitors will automate and drive you out of business.
>
> If you fire 420,000 people, it WILL have an impact on sales. It's what
> the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" epitomizes.
>
> Not only will those fired not be eating there, but I'd imagine their
> family and friends would be less than sympathetic to McDonalds from
> then onward.
>
> I know I would, and I doubt I'm alone. I have a whole list of
> businesses I will never patronize again, for one reason or another.
It is not an easy problem to solve. Higher wages will put pressure on to automate. You can not legislate supply and demand. But a lot of people do not understand that.
Dan
> --
>
Gunner Asch
Apr 24, 2016, 9:06:14 PM4/24/16
to
Ed Huntress
Apr 24, 2016, 9:47:20 PM4/24/16
to
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:02:26 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The trouble with dismissing this as a problem of excessive wages is
several fold.
Take a look at the claims made by the pitch man from Momentum
Machines, as they appear in that last link:
=====================================================
The issue of machines and job displacement has been around for
centuries and economists generally accept that technology like ours
actually causes an increase in employment.
The three factors that contribute to this are
1. the company that makes the robots must hire new employees,
2. the restaurant that uses our robots can expand their frontiers of
production which requires hiring more people, and
3. the general public saves money on the reduced cost of our burgers.
This saved money can then be spent on the rest of the economy.
=====================================================
This is not actually what economists are saying about automation
today. The cumulative effect of the really large productivity gains
made by integrating IT into manufacturing, for example, have exposed
some weaknesses in those arguments.
For example, point number 1: If the robot company hires new employees,
and the number isn't a lot SMALLER than the number of employees
displaced by the automation, then automating would be a losing
proposition. In the entire supply chain, if you don't reduce the total
number of employees, you haven't cut costs -- you've just added
additional capital costs to the total cost of production.
Regarding number 2: unless they've wound up reducing costs
substantially (see point 1, above), the robotized restaurant, in the
course of "expanding its frontiers of production," has just taken
market share from someone else. There is nothing about the
robotization itself that would expand the total market size, other
than reduced costs. Even that is problematic -- how many hamburgers
can we eat? <g> The problem here is not a shortage of food that the
robotized burger joints will alleviate.
Number 3 is a net benefit. The question becomes, like the question
that arises from the issue of getting cheaper clothing prices from
China, whether the benefit outweighs the cost of lost jobs in the US.
Until recently, it was assumed that the resulting efficiencies would
help stimulate more innovation, new markets, bigger markets nad more
jobs.
Now, there is no consensus among economists on the issue, but most, or
all, recognize that the real result may be a loss if the rate of
increasing productivity outstrips the rate at which we create new
jobs. Just looking at it from the perspective of manufacturing, the
answer appears to be that it does produce a loss of jobs. But
manufacturing is only a small part of our employment these days --
directly, under 9%. So services are taking up all of the slack. We'll
see how much we can innovate and create new, well-paying jobs there.
So far, the new jobs have been paying less than the ones that were
eliminated.
Stay tuned. But don't dismiss the complaints of those striking for
higher wages. Theirs may be a lost cause, but if they stand still, the
cause is lost anyway. The cost of automation keeps declining and it
will be economic for individual companies to replace them with
automation before long, no matter how much we suppress or restrain
wages. That development moves in only one direction and it's moving
fast. Now we are more dependent than ever on innovation that creates
jobs.
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
several fold.
Take a look at the claims made by the pitch man from Momentum
Machines, as they appear in that last link:
=====================================================
The issue of machines and job displacement has been around for
centuries and economists generally accept that technology like ours
actually causes an increase in employment.
The three factors that contribute to this are
1. the company that makes the robots must hire new employees,
2. the restaurant that uses our robots can expand their frontiers of
production which requires hiring more people, and
3. the general public saves money on the reduced cost of our burgers.
This saved money can then be spent on the rest of the economy.
=====================================================
This is not actually what economists are saying about automation
today. The cumulative effect of the really large productivity gains
made by integrating IT into manufacturing, for example, have exposed
some weaknesses in those arguments.
For example, point number 1: If the robot company hires new employees,
and the number isn't a lot SMALLER than the number of employees
displaced by the automation, then automating would be a losing
proposition. In the entire supply chain, if you don't reduce the total
number of employees, you haven't cut costs -- you've just added
additional capital costs to the total cost of production.
Regarding number 2: unless they've wound up reducing costs
substantially (see point 1, above), the robotized restaurant, in the
course of "expanding its frontiers of production," has just taken
market share from someone else. There is nothing about the
robotization itself that would expand the total market size, other
than reduced costs. Even that is problematic -- how many hamburgers
can we eat? <g> The problem here is not a shortage of food that the
robotized burger joints will alleviate.
Number 3 is a net benefit. The question becomes, like the question
that arises from the issue of getting cheaper clothing prices from
China, whether the benefit outweighs the cost of lost jobs in the US.
Until recently, it was assumed that the resulting efficiencies would
help stimulate more innovation, new markets, bigger markets nad more
jobs.
Now, there is no consensus among economists on the issue, but most, or
all, recognize that the real result may be a loss if the rate of
increasing productivity outstrips the rate at which we create new
jobs. Just looking at it from the perspective of manufacturing, the
answer appears to be that it does produce a loss of jobs. But
manufacturing is only a small part of our employment these days --
directly, under 9%. So services are taking up all of the slack. We'll
see how much we can innovate and create new, well-paying jobs there.
So far, the new jobs have been paying less than the ones that were
eliminated.
Stay tuned. But don't dismiss the complaints of those striking for
higher wages. Theirs may be a lost cause, but if they stand still, the
cause is lost anyway. The cost of automation keeps declining and it
will be economic for individual companies to replace them with
automation before long, no matter how much we suppress or restrain
wages. That development moves in only one direction and it's moving
fast. Now we are more dependent than ever on innovation that creates
jobs.
--
Ed Huntress
pyotr filipivich
Apr 24, 2016, 11:51:18 PM4/24/16
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:02:26 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
don't need to automate, they can move. Like the Garment industry -
which is moving out of LA. And Manufacturing - well, we know how that
is working out.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:46:55 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org" wrote:
>>On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 3:25:41 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
>>> If you fire 420,000 people, it WILL have an impact on sales. It's what
>>> the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" epitomizes.
>>And if you do not automate and reduce the number of employees, your competitors will automate and drive you out of business.
>>> Not only will those fired not be eating there, but I'd imagine their
>>> family and friends would be less than sympathetic to McDonalds from
>>> then onward.
>>> I know I would, and I doubt I'm alone. I have a whole list of
>>> businesses I will never patronize again, for one reason or another.
>>Just be prepared to stop patronizing all burger restaurants. All the burger places now buy ready made beef patties and potatoes already peeled and sliced for french fries.
>>
>>It is not an easy problem to solve. Higher wages will put pressure on to automate. You can not legislate supply and demand. But a lot of people do not understand that.
>>>
>>On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 3:25:41 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
>>> If you fire 420,000 people, it WILL have an impact on sales. It's what
>>> the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face" epitomizes.
>>And if you do not automate and reduce the number of employees, your competitors will automate and drive you out of business.
>>> Not only will those fired not be eating there, but I'd imagine their
>>> family and friends would be less than sympathetic to McDonalds from
>>> then onward.
>>> I know I would, and I doubt I'm alone. I have a whole list of
>>> businesses I will never patronize again, for one reason or another.
>>Just be prepared to stop patronizing all burger restaurants. All the burger places now buy ready made beef patties and potatoes already peeled and sliced for french fries.
>>
>>It is not an easy problem to solve. Higher wages will put pressure on to automate. You can not legislate supply and demand. But a lot of people do not understand that.
>>>
>http://www.businessinsider.com/carls-jr-wants-open-automated-location-2016-3
>http://newsexaminer.net/food/mcdonalds-to-open-restaurant-run-by-robots/
>http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-10/dear-striking-fast-food-workers-meet-machine-just-put-all-you-out-job
>
>Ooooh!! the Ebil Rich~~!!
What's the bitch to the whole thing - the other industries which
>http://newsexaminer.net/food/mcdonalds-to-open-restaurant-run-by-robots/
>http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-10/dear-striking-fast-food-workers-meet-machine-just-put-all-you-out-job
>
>Ooooh!! the Ebil Rich~~!!
don't need to automate, they can move. Like the Garment industry -
which is moving out of LA. And Manufacturing - well, we know how that
is working out.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
John B.
Apr 25, 2016, 8:38:37 AM4/25/16
to
it was) is automating the delivery of pizzas. They said that within a
1 mile range that it would be fully automated.
Singapore is installing, or testing, last quarter this year a
driverless buss system.
1 mile today, the World tomorrow!
--
Cheers,
John B.
Ed Huntress
Apr 25, 2016, 9:54:30 AM4/25/16
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:38:27 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
A really big clay-pigeon trap would get them pretty far...
>
>Singapore is installing, or testing, last quarter this year a
>driverless buss system.
>
>1 mile today, the World tomorrow!
I'm getting news in my inbox every day about the status of driverless
cars. Here's the one I got today from the SME:
"Driverless Cars Aren’t Yet Ready For City Travel In US."
"In an essay for the Wall Street Journal (4/22, Petroski, Subscription
Publication), Duke University professor of civil engineering Henry
Petroski wrote that although autonomous-vehicle technology is
advancing, US cities aren’t yet ready to handle it. In a cross-country
test run last year, a driverless Audi could handle 99% of the trip –
but not the complex traffic and frequent construction of an urban
environment, Petroski explained. The article also explored some of the
changes cities will have to make to adapt to the fast-developing
technology."
I wonder if they say "sorry" when they mow down an old lady crossing
the street, or if they take off and go like hell. Are there
hit-and-run autonomous cars?
I'd want to know something about my car's moral character before
committing.
--
Ed Huntress
>
>Singapore is installing, or testing, last quarter this year a
>driverless buss system.
>
>1 mile today, the World tomorrow!
cars. Here's the one I got today from the SME:
"Driverless Cars Aren’t Yet Ready For City Travel In US."
"In an essay for the Wall Street Journal (4/22, Petroski, Subscription
Publication), Duke University professor of civil engineering Henry
Petroski wrote that although autonomous-vehicle technology is
advancing, US cities aren’t yet ready to handle it. In a cross-country
test run last year, a driverless Audi could handle 99% of the trip –
but not the complex traffic and frequent construction of an urban
environment, Petroski explained. The article also explored some of the
changes cities will have to make to adapt to the fast-developing
technology."
I wonder if they say "sorry" when they mow down an old lady crossing
the street, or if they take off and go like hell. Are there
hit-and-run autonomous cars?
I'd want to know something about my car's moral character before
committing.
--
Ed Huntress
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 25, 2016, 10:13:05 AM4/25/16
to
highest for the low-slung brooding designs, which will be the most
likely to knock up the neighbor's unattractive pudgy commuter model.
:)
Ed Huntress
Apr 25, 2016, 11:32:55 AM4/25/16
to
Hostility!" for the most aggressive and belligerant models.
"American Eagle: Feeds on Carrion and Foreign Cars!"
--
Ed Huntress
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 25, 2016, 11:53:51 AM4/25/16
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:32:52 -0400, Ed Huntress
Prices are bound to rise after the most impressionable cars rally
around an inexplicably charismatic orangish design that promises to
build a yooge wall to keep out lower cost imported models.
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:13:10 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:54:27 -0400, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'd want to know something about my car's moral character before
>>>committing.
>>
>>Exactly! It's easy to imagine how this will play out. Sales will be
>>highest for the low-slung brooding designs, which will be the most
>>likely to knock up the neighbor's unattractive pudgy commuter model.
>>:)
>
>Ad copy will be interesting. "You Always Go First!", "Show Your
>Hostility!" for the most aggressive and belligerant models.
>
>"American Eagle: Feeds on Carrion and Foreign Cars!"
LOL "latest culling technology allows unlimited lane hogging"
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:13:10 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:54:27 -0400, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'd want to know something about my car's moral character before
>>>committing.
>>
>>Exactly! It's easy to imagine how this will play out. Sales will be
>>highest for the low-slung brooding designs, which will be the most
>>likely to knock up the neighbor's unattractive pudgy commuter model.
>>:)
>
>Ad copy will be interesting. "You Always Go First!", "Show Your
>Hostility!" for the most aggressive and belligerant models.
>
>"American Eagle: Feeds on Carrion and Foreign Cars!"
Prices are bound to rise after the most impressionable cars rally
around an inexplicably charismatic orangish design that promises to
build a yooge wall to keep out lower cost imported models.
Ed Huntress
Apr 25, 2016, 3:14:03 PM4/25/16
to
what Stephen Hawking said about that.
Maybe you'll tell your car to take you to grandma's, and you'll wind
up across town, because your car wants to go visit that cute little
Italian job.
Or maybe they'll form tribes. Suddenly your Ford will pull into a
parking lot with ten other Fords, and they'll start a rumble with a
gang of Toyotas.
What if they decide they don' need no steenking passengers, anyway?
--
Ed Huntress
John B.
Apr 25, 2016, 9:43:11 PM4/25/16
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:32:52 -0400, Ed Huntress
Or maybe exceeding the speed of sound, down a dirt road, in one.
--
Cheers,
John B.
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:13:10 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:54:27 -0400, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'd want to know something about my car's moral character before
>>>committing.
>>
>>Exactly! It's easy to imagine how this will play out. Sales will be
>>highest for the low-slung brooding designs, which will be the most
>>likely to knock up the neighbor's unattractive pudgy commuter model.
>>:)
>
>Ad copy will be interesting. "You Always Go First!", "Show Your
>Hostility!" for the most aggressive and belligerant models.
>
>"American Eagle: Feeds on Carrion and Foreign Cars!"
And Gunner will be burying one in the desert with his back hoe.
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:13:10 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:54:27 -0400, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'd want to know something about my car's moral character before
>>>committing.
>>
>>Exactly! It's easy to imagine how this will play out. Sales will be
>>highest for the low-slung brooding designs, which will be the most
>>likely to knock up the neighbor's unattractive pudgy commuter model.
>>:)
>
>Ad copy will be interesting. "You Always Go First!", "Show Your
>Hostility!" for the most aggressive and belligerant models.
>
>"American Eagle: Feeds on Carrion and Foreign Cars!"
Or maybe exceeding the speed of sound, down a dirt road, in one.
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
Apr 25, 2016, 9:43:12 PM4/25/16
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:54:27 -0400, Ed Huntress
Didn't I read something about Amazon, or one of the companies like it,
delivering stuff by drone?
One can only speculate whether it is better to be hit by a driverless
car or bombed by a pilot less drone :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
delivering stuff by drone?
One can only speculate whether it is better to be hit by a driverless
car or bombed by a pilot less drone :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Ed Huntress
Apr 26, 2016, 7:04:54 AM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:42:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
It's the future. Stay indoors, watch TV, and ignore the mechanical
mayhem going on outside...
--
Ed Huntress
mayhem going on outside...
--
Ed Huntress
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 26, 2016, 10:38:36 AM4/26/16
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:14:00 -0400, Ed Huntress
I accept the experts' opinions that trouble is on the horizon. But
it's surely a long way off. As proof, I offer my car's recent refusal
to see my new cell phone's contact list, on account of the list being
in the "wrong" location. :)
I read something recently about self-driving cars being much pie in
the sky, like drone delivery services and autonomous STOL aircraft.
Which makes sense. Do you have any 4 way stop intersections nearby?
They don't even have to be full to be a mess.
Driver 1. I never pay attention to who got here first. Does the guy on
my right go first, or is the one on my left? I'll lurch a half car
length and see what happens.
Driver 2. I am polite. I don't care if I clearly got here first, I'll
just wait for everyone to leave, no matter how many are lined up
behind me.
Driver 3. I forgot to stop at the line, but now that I realize I took
someone else's turn, I'll make up for it by stopping in the middle of
the intersection and waving some incomprehensible hand gestures.
So now computers are going to fix things like this? How about in a
parking lot, when one clearly has the right of way, but yields anyway
when a gray hair's backup lights come on? I suppose the car computers
will have to communicate with one another. To see what could go wrong
with that, go to any RC flying field and wait five minutes for a crash
caused by the vagaries of radio signals.
it's surely a long way off. As proof, I offer my car's recent refusal
to see my new cell phone's contact list, on account of the list being
in the "wrong" location. :)
I read something recently about self-driving cars being much pie in
the sky, like drone delivery services and autonomous STOL aircraft.
Which makes sense. Do you have any 4 way stop intersections nearby?
They don't even have to be full to be a mess.
Driver 1. I never pay attention to who got here first. Does the guy on
my right go first, or is the one on my left? I'll lurch a half car
length and see what happens.
Driver 2. I am polite. I don't care if I clearly got here first, I'll
just wait for everyone to leave, no matter how many are lined up
behind me.
Driver 3. I forgot to stop at the line, but now that I realize I took
someone else's turn, I'll make up for it by stopping in the middle of
the intersection and waving some incomprehensible hand gestures.
So now computers are going to fix things like this? How about in a
parking lot, when one clearly has the right of way, but yields anyway
when a gray hair's backup lights come on? I suppose the car computers
will have to communicate with one another. To see what could go wrong
with that, go to any RC flying field and wait five minutes for a crash
caused by the vagaries of radio signals.
Ed Huntress
Apr 26, 2016, 11:34:35 AM4/26/16
to
self-driving enterprise. I'm a natural skeptic anyway, but I'm having
a hard time getting my head about this one. Thus, my wisecrack about
the option of buying one that runs like hell when it hits an old lady,
versus one that says "Sorry." And about 4-way stops: that's what the
"You Always Go First!" headline was about.
But then, I'm not really in that loop. My cars are kinda old; the idea
of my car probing my cell phone's contact list makes my skin crawl.
And here's my idea of an ideal car:
1. It has no doors. (Lotus 7)
2. It has no window cranks or motors (Lotus Elan -- the '60s version)
3. It has a manual choke
4. It has no starter relay -- just a knob you pull to make direct
starter-motor contact (Triumph TR3)
5. You refresh the shock absorbers by putting heavier oil in them (old
MGs)
6. It has a 4-cylinder flathead engine with screw-adjust valve
lifters. (old Ford Anglia), or maybe an OHV engine, if you can lash
the valves without spraying oil all over you from hot-lashing.
7. It has a full-size spare.
8. It has a starter crank in the trunk (Morris Minor) and a really
good lug-nut spinner in there with it. Also, a jack that isn't likely
to kill you.
9. The turn signals work from a flip-switch on the dash that doesn't
self-return. (MG Midget)
10. The windshield washer actually is a pump that you push with your
thumb (old MG).
See why I used to have British cars? <g>
I want a low-tech car.
--
Ed Huntress
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 26, 2016, 12:05:15 PM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:34:29 -0400, Ed Huntress
It shouldn't. What's the car going to do with my contact list? Call
everybody and offer them a deal on driveway sealing? :)
I have a bluetooth intercom in my motorcycle helmet. Talk to
passenger, other riders, listen to music and take phone calls. Very
slick and inexpensive. It's a small device, so it could sneak up on me
someday and kill me in my sleep I suppose. :)
back far enough and you won't even have a starter much less a
solenoid. :)
I love tech. I curse it frequently, but not as much as I used to curse
older stuff that managed to be simpler and less reliable at the same
time. Proof of the pudding: I don't even carry a tool box most of the
time. It seemed strange at first to break a decades old habit. I still
carry stuff that's only needed occasionally, but far more often than
tools. Tire repair kit, binoculars, bug spray, etc.
everybody and offer them a deal on driveway sealing? :)
I have a bluetooth intercom in my motorcycle helmet. Talk to
passenger, other riders, listen to music and take phone calls. Very
slick and inexpensive. It's a small device, so it could sneak up on me
someday and kill me in my sleep I suppose. :)
>
>And here's my idea of an ideal car:
>
>1. It has no doors. (Lotus 7)
>2. It has no window cranks or motors (Lotus Elan -- the '60s version)
>3. It has a manual choke
>4. It has no starter relay -- just a knob you pull to make direct
>starter-motor contact (Triumph TR3)
>5. You refresh the shock absorbers by putting heavier oil in them (old
>MGs)
>6. It has a 4-cylinder flathead engine with screw-adjust valve
>lifters. (old Ford Anglia), or maybe an OHV engine, if you can lash
>the valves without spraying oil all over you from hot-lashing.
>7. It has a full-size spare.
>8. It has a starter crank in the trunk (Morris Minor) and a really
>good lug-nut spinner in there with it. Also, a jack that isn't likely
>to kill you.
>9. The turn signals work from a flip-switch on the dash that doesn't
>self-return. (MG Midget)
>10. The windshield washer actually is a pump that you push with your
>thumb (old MG).
>
>See why I used to have British cars? <g>
>
>I want a low-tech car.
You could get most of that with an old motorcycle with a sidecar. Go
>And here's my idea of an ideal car:
>
>1. It has no doors. (Lotus 7)
>2. It has no window cranks or motors (Lotus Elan -- the '60s version)
>3. It has a manual choke
>4. It has no starter relay -- just a knob you pull to make direct
>starter-motor contact (Triumph TR3)
>5. You refresh the shock absorbers by putting heavier oil in them (old
>MGs)
>6. It has a 4-cylinder flathead engine with screw-adjust valve
>lifters. (old Ford Anglia), or maybe an OHV engine, if you can lash
>the valves without spraying oil all over you from hot-lashing.
>7. It has a full-size spare.
>8. It has a starter crank in the trunk (Morris Minor) and a really
>good lug-nut spinner in there with it. Also, a jack that isn't likely
>to kill you.
>9. The turn signals work from a flip-switch on the dash that doesn't
>self-return. (MG Midget)
>10. The windshield washer actually is a pump that you push with your
>thumb (old MG).
>
>See why I used to have British cars? <g>
>
>I want a low-tech car.
back far enough and you won't even have a starter much less a
solenoid. :)
I love tech. I curse it frequently, but not as much as I used to curse
older stuff that managed to be simpler and less reliable at the same
time. Proof of the pudding: I don't even carry a tool box most of the
time. It seemed strange at first to break a decades old habit. I still
carry stuff that's only needed occasionally, but far more often than
tools. Tire repair kit, binoculars, bug spray, etc.
Ed Huntress
Apr 26, 2016, 1:33:36 PM4/26/16
to
its alternatives...
>
>I have a bluetooth intercom in my motorcycle helmet. Talk to
>passenger, other riders, listen to music and take phone calls. Very
>slick and inexpensive. It's a small device, so it could sneak up on me
>someday and kill me in my sleep I suppose. :)
think carefully about putting it on there before you do it.
The helmet may know about something I was told, when I went through
SCCA driver's school and asked about why we had to have our names on
our helmets. Nobody could really see it.
The answer was, "So that, when your helmet goes rolling across the
track, we'll know whose head is in it."
>>
>>And here's my idea of an ideal car:
>>
>>1. It has no doors. (Lotus 7)
>>2. It has no window cranks or motors (Lotus Elan -- the '60s version)
>>3. It has a manual choke
>>4. It has no starter relay -- just a knob you pull to make direct
>>starter-motor contact (Triumph TR3)
>>5. You refresh the shock absorbers by putting heavier oil in them (old
>>MGs)
>>6. It has a 4-cylinder flathead engine with screw-adjust valve
>>lifters. (old Ford Anglia), or maybe an OHV engine, if you can lash
>>the valves without spraying oil all over you from hot-lashing.
>>7. It has a full-size spare.
>>8. It has a starter crank in the trunk (Morris Minor) and a really
>>good lug-nut spinner in there with it. Also, a jack that isn't likely
>>to kill you.
>>9. The turn signals work from a flip-switch on the dash that doesn't
>>self-return. (MG Midget)
>>10. The windshield washer actually is a pump that you push with your
>>thumb (old MG).
>>
>>See why I used to have British cars? <g>
>>
>>I want a low-tech car.
>
>You could get most of that with an old motorcycle with a sidecar. Go
>back far enough and you won't even have a starter much less a
>solenoid. :)
But I owned two motorcycles, both bought new, that had no starter (a
BSA Victor 441 and a Triumph Tiger 650). Experiencing kickback when
starting the BSA could be helpful training for aspiring acrobats.
>
>I love tech. I curse it frequently, but not as much as I used to curse
>older stuff that managed to be simpler and less reliable at the same
>time. Proof of the pudding: I don't even carry a tool box most of the
>time. It seemed strange at first to break a decades old habit. I still
>carry stuff that's only needed occasionally, but far more often than
>tools. Tire repair kit, binoculars, bug spray, etc.
--
Ed Huntress
Ned Simmons
Apr 26, 2016, 1:40:34 PM4/26/16
to
windhsield washer, but meets the rest of those specs. Is 10MPH top
speed and a seat 4 feet off the ground acceptable?
--
Ned Simmons
Ed Huntress
Apr 26, 2016, 1:46:01 PM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:40:30 -0400, Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com>
wrote:
10 mph would be a deal-breaker for me. But I'll bet it's fun to ride.
d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Ned Simmons
Apr 26, 2016, 2:11:08 PM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:45:57 -0400, Ed Huntress
With ag tires and snow chains you want to hold on tight at top speed
on hard ground.
Re self driving cars, I'll trust one when it can properly navigate
this intersection:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
processsing that for the first time.
--
Ned Simmons
on hard ground.
Re self driving cars, I'll trust one when it can properly navigate
this intersection:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
processsing that for the first time.
--
Ned Simmons
Ed Huntress
Apr 26, 2016, 3:32:57 PM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:11:02 -0400, Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com>
I'll bet. I've ridden on tractors.
>
>Re self driving cars, I'll trust one when it can properly navigate
>this intersection:
>https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
>
>Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
>processsing that for the first time.
Ah, yes, a roundabout. New Jersey has some contributions of its own to
insane traffic circles. This is one I had to drive through twice a
day: It was white knuckles all the time:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5758974,-74.6295388,298m/data=!3m1!1e3
And here's real beauty: Airport Circle, in Pennsauken. If you make it
through this one without hitting anybody, you get a gold star on your
driver's license:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9337417,-75.0818304,422m/data=!3m1!1e3
--
Ed Huntress
>
>Re self driving cars, I'll trust one when it can properly navigate
>this intersection:
>https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
>
>Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
>processsing that for the first time.
insane traffic circles. This is one I had to drive through twice a
day: It was white knuckles all the time:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5758974,-74.6295388,298m/data=!3m1!1e3
And here's real beauty: Airport Circle, in Pennsauken. If you make it
through this one without hitting anybody, you get a gold star on your
driver's license:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9337417,-75.0818304,422m/data=!3m1!1e3
--
Ed Huntress
Steve W.
Apr 26, 2016, 3:57:40 PM4/26/16
to
UDLX comes closer...
Or there are quite a few tractors from Europe that are the modern
version of the UDLX. (many countries there require all of the same road
use items on a farm tractor that they require on a normal car!)
As for those #$%%#%^&^^%$ circles from hell..... As a former OTR driver
I'll not write what I really think of them, folks might question me
being a nice guy....
Suffice it to say that threading a tractor trailer around some of them
is like trying to thread the needle on a sewing machine, with it
running, at night, with no lights on, while wearing mittens.....
And what's worse is they want to build even more of them....
--
Steve W.
Ed Huntress
Apr 26, 2016, 4:38:43 PM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:57:36 -0400, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:
There was a story recently about them coming back. We got rid of a
bunch of them in NJ and I hope they all go away.
My worst driving experience was driving through the roundabouts in the
north of England. Jesus -- not only was everyone going like hell, but
they were all going the wrong way! <g>
Going through one while driving on the left will really test any
American's spatial-orientation skills.
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
bunch of them in NJ and I hope they all go away.
My worst driving experience was driving through the roundabouts in the
north of England. Jesus -- not only was everyone going like hell, but
they were all going the wrong way! <g>
Going through one while driving on the left will really test any
American's spatial-orientation skills.
--
Ed Huntress
dca...@krl.org
Apr 26, 2016, 5:47:25 PM4/26/16
to
On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 4:38:43 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> >And what's worse is they want to build even more of them....
>
> There was a story recently about them coming back. We got rid of a
> bunch of them in NJ and I hope they all go away.
>
> Ed Huntress
>
> >And what's worse is they want to build even more of them....
>
> There was a story recently about them coming back. We got rid of a
> bunch of them in NJ and I hope they all go away.
>
Newer took a tractor trailer though a round a bout. But I think they are great for cars and motorcycles. Well maybe not all that great for motorcycles. I had one problem with a round a bout that had sand on it. I sailed around it until the tires lost traction and then slid out to the outside . I can remember thinking " I am getting my skin abrauded, so scrunched up and abraided a different area. I went to the nursery and got the areas cleaned. The nurse was using something pretty cold and I kept jumping when she put the towel on me. She thought it was hurting me , but then was less gentle when I said it tickled.
Dan
Steve W.
Apr 26, 2016, 6:08:05 PM4/26/16
to
I have a couple friends who are coming across the pond next month. They
plan on a rental car, Already told them that if I am in the vehicle I'M
driving !!
NY is adding the damn things a lot, strangely I've also heard of many
being built out west and down in Texas.
They built a new Wal~Mart near me that has one in the entrance road, I
count the bumper cover pieces and assorted parts laying around it every
time we go there...
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
Apr 26, 2016, 8:18:32 PM4/26/16
to
round-a-bouts, BUT they are much gentler and do less damage"
--
Steve W.
Good Soldier Schweik
Apr 26, 2016, 10:40:54 PM4/26/16
to
to protect the public from the horseless carriage.
Pennsylvania, in 1896, unanimously passed a bill through both houses
of the state legislature, which would require all motorists piloting
their "horseless carriages", upon chance encounters with cattle or
livestock to (1) immediately stop the vehicle, (2) "immediately and as
rapidly as possible ... disassemble the automobile", and (3) "conceal
the various components out of sight, behind nearby bushes" until
equestrian or livestock is sufficiently pacified.
Ridiculous you say, but so is your contention above.
--
Cheers,
Schweik
John B.
Apr 26, 2016, 10:40:55 PM4/26/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:34:29 -0400, Ed Huntress
But Mister... where do you put the oil in?
--
Cheers,
John B.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Tom Gardner
Apr 27, 2016, 3:29:00 AM4/27/16
to
On 4/26/2016 1:40 PM, Ned Simmons wrote:
>> See why I used to have British cars? <g>
>>
>> I want a low-tech car.
>
> My '53 Farmall Super A has no shocks, spare, turn signals or
> windhsield washer, but meets the rest of those specs. Is 10MPH top
> speed and a seat 4 feet off the ground acceptable?
>
Do you know why the Brits like warm beer?
>> See why I used to have British cars? <g>
>>
>> I want a low-tech car.
>
> My '53 Farmall Super A has no shocks, spare, turn signals or
> windhsield washer, but meets the rest of those specs. Is 10MPH top
> speed and a seat 4 feet off the ground acceptable?
>
---Lucas makes refrigerators.
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 27, 2016, 10:43:19 AM4/27/16
to
comparison at least 20 years ago. How many Skycars do you see flying?
Self driving cars are hitting the road, but widespread use is decades
away and may never happen.
Larry Jaques
Apr 27, 2016, 1:26:25 PM4/27/16
to
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 03:28:46 -0400, Tom Gardner <Ma...@tacks.com>
wrote:
My, what a coincidence!
--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau
wrote:
--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau
John B.
Apr 27, 2016, 10:02:20 PM4/27/16
to
will either implement pilotless buses, or test them (the article was
unclear) the last quarter of this year.
The last quarter is only months, not decades, away.
--
Cheers,
John B.
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 28, 2016, 9:49:35 AM4/28/16
to
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:02:02 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
That's not widespread use, it's a niche. There should be lots of
niches, but I don't expect any of them to include parking lots,
underground garages, snowy roads, tunnels, etc.
Anyway, busses would seem to be a strange niche. Bus drivers tend to
do a lot more than drive the bus, and without a driver, I'd expect
other services to have to pick up the slack. Like cops making sweeps
to enforce fare paying.
Here's a niche problem: whenever I leave home, I descend about 1200'
down a gravel road without any barriers to prevent cliff jumping. At
one intersection I make a left from the left side of the road I'm on,
to the left side of the road I'm turning on to. That's because there's
a blind corner on a steep decline on my right. If I made a normal
turn, I'd be putting myself in a collision path with possible
descending traffic that would have no way to avoid hitting me without
going over the edge. There are probably a few ways vehicles could be
programmed to solve issues like that, and all of them will involve
either creeping around like a granny, or putting up a no-go error
flag. In the real where minimizing liability is a religion, I expect
any self driving car would simply refuse to activate in many
situations. "I'm sorry, but the route you've chosen requires a human
operator."
niches, but I don't expect any of them to include parking lots,
underground garages, snowy roads, tunnels, etc.
Anyway, busses would seem to be a strange niche. Bus drivers tend to
do a lot more than drive the bus, and without a driver, I'd expect
other services to have to pick up the slack. Like cops making sweeps
to enforce fare paying.
Here's a niche problem: whenever I leave home, I descend about 1200'
down a gravel road without any barriers to prevent cliff jumping. At
one intersection I make a left from the left side of the road I'm on,
to the left side of the road I'm turning on to. That's because there's
a blind corner on a steep decline on my right. If I made a normal
turn, I'd be putting myself in a collision path with possible
descending traffic that would have no way to avoid hitting me without
going over the edge. There are probably a few ways vehicles could be
programmed to solve issues like that, and all of them will involve
either creeping around like a granny, or putting up a no-go error
flag. In the real where minimizing liability is a religion, I expect
any self driving car would simply refuse to activate in many
situations. "I'm sorry, but the route you've chosen requires a human
operator."
mog...@hotmail.com
Apr 28, 2016, 10:08:11 AM4/28/16
to
John B.
Apr 28, 2016, 9:40:42 PM4/28/16
to
public transportation rather then private.
>Anyway, busses would seem to be a strange niche. Bus drivers tend to
>do a lot more than drive the bus, and without a driver, I'd expect
>other services to have to pick up the slack. Like cops making sweeps
>to enforce fare paying.
>
more. They use a "credit card" sort of thing. You got a card you can
ride the bus, but no tickie, no laundry :-)
They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
the street is a $1,000 fine.
>Here's a niche problem: whenever I leave home, I descend about 1200'
>down a gravel road without any barriers to prevent cliff jumping. At
>one intersection I make a left from the left side of the road I'm on,
>to the left side of the road I'm turning on to. That's because there's
>a blind corner on a steep decline on my right. If I made a normal
>turn, I'd be putting myself in a collision path with possible
>descending traffic that would have no way to avoid hitting me without
>going over the edge. There are probably a few ways vehicles could be
>programmed to solve issues like that, and all of them will involve
>either creeping around like a granny, or putting up a no-go error
>flag. In the real where minimizing liability is a religion, I expect
>any self driving car would simply refuse to activate in many
>situations. "I'm sorry, but the route you've chosen requires a human
>operator."
controlled vehicle. It simply negates it in your special circumstance.
You simply become an anomaly.
--
Cheers,
John B.
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 29, 2016, 9:53:47 AM4/29/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:40:28 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
No, no ticket and no driver means free ride unless there's a separate
system to force fare paying.
>They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
>the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
>the street is a $1,000 fine.
In North America, free riders wouldn't pay the fine the same way they
didn't pay the fare. It's simple: it's cheaper and more effective to
ensure the fare paying at the time of service than in a court.
>>Here's a niche problem: whenever I leave home, I descend about 1200'
>>down a gravel road without any barriers to prevent cliff jumping. At
>>one intersection I make a left from the left side of the road I'm on,
>>to the left side of the road I'm turning on to. That's because there's
>>a blind corner on a steep decline on my right. If I made a normal
>>turn, I'd be putting myself in a collision path with possible
>>descending traffic that would have no way to avoid hitting me without
>>going over the edge. There are probably a few ways vehicles could be
>>programmed to solve issues like that, and all of them will involve
>>either creeping around like a granny, or putting up a no-go error
>>flag. In the real where minimizing liability is a religion, I expect
>>any self driving car would simply refuse to activate in many
>>situations. "I'm sorry, but the route you've chosen requires a human
>>operator."
>
>The fact that you have to climb mountains does not negate a computer
>controlled vehicle. It simply negates it in your special circumstance.
>You simply become an anomaly.
It's not just a climb, it's a climb with blind corners on gravel and
snow and without guard rails, and the real world is full of anomalies.
You should start work now on excuses for self driving cars are holding
up traffic. I don't mean merely driving the speed limit. At one
shopping center I frequent, anybody who wants to leave by the two
entrances on one side must be aggressive enough to dart into traffic
openings. Those who can't do that end up with a long line of cars
behind. Self driving cars will either sit there for an hour and clog
the entire lot, or blacklist the route. Get back to me when self
driving cars go mainstream in your neighborhood and mine. And no, 100
car pilot programs etc. don't count as mainstream.
system to force fare paying.
>They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
>the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
>the street is a $1,000 fine.
didn't pay the fare. It's simple: it's cheaper and more effective to
ensure the fare paying at the time of service than in a court.
>>Here's a niche problem: whenever I leave home, I descend about 1200'
>>down a gravel road without any barriers to prevent cliff jumping. At
>>one intersection I make a left from the left side of the road I'm on,
>>to the left side of the road I'm turning on to. That's because there's
>>a blind corner on a steep decline on my right. If I made a normal
>>turn, I'd be putting myself in a collision path with possible
>>descending traffic that would have no way to avoid hitting me without
>>going over the edge. There are probably a few ways vehicles could be
>>programmed to solve issues like that, and all of them will involve
>>either creeping around like a granny, or putting up a no-go error
>>flag. In the real where minimizing liability is a religion, I expect
>>any self driving car would simply refuse to activate in many
>>situations. "I'm sorry, but the route you've chosen requires a human
>>operator."
>
>The fact that you have to climb mountains does not negate a computer
>controlled vehicle. It simply negates it in your special circumstance.
>You simply become an anomaly.
snow and without guard rails, and the real world is full of anomalies.
You should start work now on excuses for self driving cars are holding
up traffic. I don't mean merely driving the speed limit. At one
shopping center I frequent, anybody who wants to leave by the two
entrances on one side must be aggressive enough to dart into traffic
openings. Those who can't do that end up with a long line of cars
behind. Self driving cars will either sit there for an hour and clog
the entire lot, or blacklist the route. Get back to me when self
driving cars go mainstream in your neighborhood and mine. And no, 100
car pilot programs etc. don't count as mainstream.
et...@whidbey.com
Apr 29, 2016, 1:02:18 PM4/29/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:40:28 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
Lots of cars these days have steer by wire with no mechanical
connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
driving lanes.
Eric
connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
driving lanes.
Eric
pyotr filipivich
Apr 29, 2016, 3:33:44 PM4/29/16
to
et...@whidbey.com on Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:05:55 -0700 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
it takes you to the "Community Judicial System Experience" (formerly
called "the police station"), because you are wanted for "the
assistance you can provide the authorities."
--
pyotr
A quote: "I wouldn't kill an abortionist myself, but I wouldn't want to impose my moral values
on others. No one is for shooting abortionists. But how will criminalizing men making
difficult, often tragic, decisions be an effective means of achieving the goal of
reducing the shootings of abortionists?
Following the moral precepts of liberals, I believe the correct position is:
If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, then don't shoot one."
A Response: Works for me.
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>>The fact that you have to climb mountains does not negate a computer
>>controlled vehicle. It simply negates it in your special circumstance.
>>You simply become an anomaly.
>Lots of cars these days have steer by wire with no mechanical
>connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
>magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
>the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
>reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
>catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
And then the days will come, when you get in your "smart car" and
>>The fact that you have to climb mountains does not negate a computer
>>controlled vehicle. It simply negates it in your special circumstance.
>>You simply become an anomaly.
>Lots of cars these days have steer by wire with no mechanical
>connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
>magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
>the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
>reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
>catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
it takes you to the "Community Judicial System Experience" (formerly
called "the police station"), because you are wanted for "the
assistance you can provide the authorities."
--
pyotr
A quote: "I wouldn't kill an abortionist myself, but I wouldn't want to impose my moral values
on others. No one is for shooting abortionists. But how will criminalizing men making
difficult, often tragic, decisions be an effective means of achieving the goal of
reducing the shootings of abortionists?
Following the moral precepts of liberals, I believe the correct position is:
If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, then don't shoot one."
A Response: Works for me.
John B.
Apr 30, 2016, 9:55:05 AM4/30/16
to
I remember a Technical Order on the F-4's, which flew perfectly well
in America. The T.O. was to add weights to the existing "fly weights"
that back feed "feel" into the control stick to increase "stick load"
during maneuvers.
One of the pilots said that while the "stick feel" generally seemed
wholly adequate, but when you started seeing the tracers flying up
past the wings one did tend to over control just a tad. :-)
>With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
>Eric
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
Apr 30, 2016, 9:55:06 AM4/30/16
to
Singaporean is going to rat you out. Why should he pay and you not
pay?. If you don't swipe your card someone is sure to mention it and
if you do it the second morning they will likely call a cop.
>>They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
>>the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
>>the street is a $1,000 fine.
>
>In North America, free riders wouldn't pay the fine the same way they
>didn't pay the fare. It's simple: it's cheaper and more effective to
>ensure the fare paying at the time of service than in a court.
>
cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
Cheers,
John B.
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 30, 2016, 10:24:05 AM4/30/16
to
>Lots of cars these days have steer by wire with no mechanical
>connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
>magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
>the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
>reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
>catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
>Eric
I can imagine that it will be lots easier to have special lanes, or
>connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
>magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
>the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
>reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
>catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
>Eric
all self drivers in some areas, than to have self drivers in regular
lanes mixing with human drivers. I can also imagine some advantages of
mag lev trains and hyperloops. But consider the capital expense versus
the improvement. For example, we all know of GPS invigilation database
errors that have existed since GPS navigation first became popular.
Presumably these don't get fixed because the improvement doesn't
justify the relatively low cost of fixing the problem. So why is
something exponentially more difficult and expensive going to happen
any time soon except in niches?
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 30, 2016, 10:49:30 AM4/30/16
to
On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:54:56 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
Because he can afford it and maybe the other guy can't? At least,
that's one of the reasons I don't call the cops when I see someone
driving on bald tires or whatever.
>. If you don't swipe your card someone is sure to mention it and
>if you do it the second morning they will likely call a cop.
What a utopia! They should just electrify the handrails and boarding
steps. No ticket = instant justice.
>>>They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
>>>the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
>>>the street is a $1,000 fine.
>>
>>In North America, free riders wouldn't pay the fine the same way they
>>didn't pay the fare. It's simple: it's cheaper and more effective to
>>ensure the fare paying at the time of service than in a court.
>>
>
>Yes, you have some complex system there, don't you. In Singapore the
>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
Gosh, you make it sound so simple. How do you explain the fact that
most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
that's one of the reasons I don't call the cops when I see someone
driving on bald tires or whatever.
>. If you don't swipe your card someone is sure to mention it and
>if you do it the second morning they will likely call a cop.
steps. No ticket = instant justice.
>>>They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
>>>the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
>>>the street is a $1,000 fine.
>>
>>In North America, free riders wouldn't pay the fine the same way they
>>didn't pay the fare. It's simple: it's cheaper and more effective to
>>ensure the fare paying at the time of service than in a court.
>>
>
>Yes, you have some complex system there, don't you. In Singapore the
>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
Apr 30, 2016, 3:34:33 PM4/30/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:05:55 -0700, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>Lots of cars these days have steer by wire with no mechanical
>connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
>magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
>the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
>reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
>catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
>Eric
Steer by wire CAN be done, Has been done - but I don't know of any
>connection of the steering wheel to the steering components. They use
>magnetorheological fluid brakes to put drag on the steering wheel give
>the driver the feel of the road. These systems are considered more
>reliable than mechanical steering systems, even when it comes to
>catastrophic failure. With the sensors and computers we have today it
>won't be long, in my opinion, before there are roads in the USA that
>will have self driving car lanes. Like today where there are stop
>lights that control access to the freeway when there is a lot of
>traffic a similar scheme could be used to queue cars for the self
>driving lanes.
>Eric
production vehicles that are actually doing it on public roads yet.
The FMVSS is rather leery of allowing things like that without double
redundant levels of safety. The mechanical linkage is that backup.
You can do Self Steer by turning up the power assist a little more and
installing solenoid valves so the computer can command the hydraulics
to steer OR a servo-motor on the steering column to spin the input
shaft, and a sensor on the steering box and relay rod tells where the
wheels are aimed - but there has to be a way to override the system
manually in case it goes nuts. And if the power assist fails the
mechanical steering linkage takes over.
There is the old Ross system which is an all-hydraulic steering they
use on Road Drive Forklifts and certain off-highway power equipment -
there is no column or mechanical linkage between the control valve
under the steering wheel and the steer cylinder at the steer axle,
just hydraulic hoses. It still works even if the engine stalls, as
long as there's fluid in the hoses - but you're going to get a
workout.
--<< Bruce >>--
John B.
May 1, 2016, 1:05:52 AM5/1/16
to
ride on the buss. You might note that in a country with a population
of some 5,664,322, that something like 1,155,800 foreign workers are
employed. Or to put it another way Singapore has about 20% more jobs
then citizens. .
>>. If you don't swipe your card someone is sure to mention it and
>>if you do it the second morning they will likely call a cop.
>
>What a utopia! They should just electrify the handrails and boarding
>steps. No ticket = instant justice.
>>>>They are also pretty serious about obeying the law. I'm not sure what
>>>>the penalty is for failing to use a card on the bus but spitting on
>>>>the street is a $1,000 fine.
>>>
>>>In North America, free riders wouldn't pay the fine the same way they
>>>didn't pay the fare. It's simple: it's cheaper and more effective to
>>>ensure the fare paying at the time of service than in a court.
>>>
>>
>>Yes, you have some complex system there, don't you. In Singapore the
>>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
>
>Gosh, you make it sound so simple. How do you explain the fact that
>most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
>to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
>licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
you but the average Singaporean is quite happy to live there.
As for warrants, I thought I explained - the court calls you or
otherwise notifies you and you go to court. Otherwise they send a cop
or two around and arrest you.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Tom Gardner
May 1, 2016, 11:41:01 AM5/1/16
to
one a month.
whoyak...@gmail.com
May 1, 2016, 11:54:30 AM5/1/16
to
On Sun, 01 May 2016 12:05:39 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
there are more than a few downsides to that insane population density.
Anyway, I accept that many Singaporeans are happy for some good
reasons. Then again, lots of people are happy to live in Houston or
South Taft for example. But do they actually know any better? I
presume that Singaporeans rank freedom of the press and expression
lower in importance than spit-free sidewalks. They probably can't even
imagine an area like mine, where if you need to take a leak, you can
just stop in the middle of the road. There aren't any sidewalks to
defile and it's unlikely that anyone will witness the deed much less
call the cops who'd consider it a prank call anyway. A deer or bear
might take offense, but until they start wearing diapers there's no
need to consider their opinion.
>As for warrants, I thought I explained - the court calls you or
>otherwise notifies you and you go to court. Otherwise they send a cop
>or two around and arrest you.
It sounds like the main difference is in the level of compliance.
Authoritarian systems do have that going for them. But that advantage
won't translate into widespread use of self driving cars any time soon
anywhere near me or you.
wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:49:30 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:54:56 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:49:30 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:54:56 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>> In Singapore the
>>>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>>>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>>>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>>>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
>>
>>Gosh, you make it sound so simple. How do you explain the fact that
>>most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
>>to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
>>licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
>
>No, but I lived there for a number of years. It might seem strange to
>you but the average Singaporean is quite happy to live there.
And yet Singapore's emigration rate is second only to China. No doubt
>>>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>>>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>>>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>>>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
>>
>>Gosh, you make it sound so simple. How do you explain the fact that
>>most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
>>to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
>>licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
>
>No, but I lived there for a number of years. It might seem strange to
>you but the average Singaporean is quite happy to live there.
there are more than a few downsides to that insane population density.
Anyway, I accept that many Singaporeans are happy for some good
reasons. Then again, lots of people are happy to live in Houston or
South Taft for example. But do they actually know any better? I
presume that Singaporeans rank freedom of the press and expression
lower in importance than spit-free sidewalks. They probably can't even
imagine an area like mine, where if you need to take a leak, you can
just stop in the middle of the road. There aren't any sidewalks to
defile and it's unlikely that anyone will witness the deed much less
call the cops who'd consider it a prank call anyway. A deer or bear
might take offense, but until they start wearing diapers there's no
need to consider their opinion.
>As for warrants, I thought I explained - the court calls you or
>otherwise notifies you and you go to court. Otherwise they send a cop
>or two around and arrest you.
Authoritarian systems do have that going for them. But that advantage
won't translate into widespread use of self driving cars any time soon
anywhere near me or you.
Gunner Asch
May 1, 2016, 2:18:33 PM5/1/16
to
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:11:02 -0400, Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:45:57 -0400, Ed Huntress
><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:40:30 -0400, Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com>
>>
>>>On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:34:29 -0400, Ed Huntress
>>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>And here's my idea of an ideal car:
>>>>
>>>>1. It has no doors. (Lotus 7)
>>>>2. It has no window cranks or motors (Lotus Elan -- the '60s version)
>>>>3. It has a manual choke
>>>>4. It has no starter relay -- just a knob you pull to make direct
>>>>starter-motor contact (Triumph TR3)
>>>>5. You refresh the shock absorbers by putting heavier oil in them (old
>>>>MGs)
>>>>6. It has a 4-cylinder flathead engine with screw-adjust valve
>>>>lifters. (old Ford Anglia), or maybe an OHV engine, if you can lash
>>>>the valves without spraying oil all over you from hot-lashing.
>>>>7. It has a full-size spare.
>>>>8. It has a starter crank in the trunk (Morris Minor) and a really
>>>>good lug-nut spinner in there with it. Also, a jack that isn't likely
>>>>to kill you.
>>>>9. The turn signals work from a flip-switch on the dash that doesn't
>>>>self-return. (MG Midget)
>>>>10. The windshield washer actually is a pump that you push with your
>>>>thumb (old MG).
>>>>
>>>On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:34:29 -0400, Ed Huntress
>>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>And here's my idea of an ideal car:
>>>>
>>>>1. It has no doors. (Lotus 7)
>>>>2. It has no window cranks or motors (Lotus Elan -- the '60s version)
>>>>3. It has a manual choke
>>>>4. It has no starter relay -- just a knob you pull to make direct
>>>>starter-motor contact (Triumph TR3)
>>>>5. You refresh the shock absorbers by putting heavier oil in them (old
>>>>MGs)
>>>>6. It has a 4-cylinder flathead engine with screw-adjust valve
>>>>lifters. (old Ford Anglia), or maybe an OHV engine, if you can lash
>>>>the valves without spraying oil all over you from hot-lashing.
>>>>7. It has a full-size spare.
>>>>8. It has a starter crank in the trunk (Morris Minor) and a really
>>>>good lug-nut spinner in there with it. Also, a jack that isn't likely
>>>>to kill you.
>>>>9. The turn signals work from a flip-switch on the dash that doesn't
>>>>self-return. (MG Midget)
>>>>10. The windshield washer actually is a pump that you push with your
>>>>thumb (old MG).
>>>>
>>>>See why I used to have British cars? <g>
>>>>
>>>>I want a low-tech car.
>>>
>>>My '53 Farmall Super A has no shocks, spare, turn signals or
>>>windhsield washer, but meets the rest of those specs. Is 10MPH top
>>>speed and a seat 4 feet off the ground acceptable?
>>
>>>>
>>>>I want a low-tech car.
>>>
>>>My '53 Farmall Super A has no shocks, spare, turn signals or
>>>windhsield washer, but meets the rest of those specs. Is 10MPH top
>>>speed and a seat 4 feet off the ground acceptable?
>>
>>10 mph would be a deal-breaker for me. But I'll bet it's fun to ride.
>>d8-)
>
>With ag tires and snow chains you want to hold on tight at top speed
>on hard ground.
>
>>d8-)
>
>With ag tires and snow chains you want to hold on tight at top speed
>on hard ground.
>
>Re self driving cars, I'll trust one when it can properly navigate
>this intersection:
>https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
>
>Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
>processsing that for the first time.
Indeed! We have a similar one in Bakersfield, that comes with ghosts
>this intersection:
>https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
>
>Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
>processsing that for the first time.
and a talking statue...
http://www.hauntedplaces.org/item/garces-memorial-circle/
Gunner Asch
May 1, 2016, 2:20:14 PM5/1/16
to
John B.
May 1, 2016, 9:48:53 PM5/1/16
to
On Sun, 01 May 2016 08:54:29 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Sun, 01 May 2016 12:05:39 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:49:30 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:54:56 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>> In Singapore the
>>>>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>>>>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>>>>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>>>>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
>>>
>>>Gosh, you make it sound so simple. How do you explain the fact that
>>>most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
>>>to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
>>>licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
>>
>>No, but I lived there for a number of years. It might seem strange to
>>you but the average Singaporean is quite happy to live there.
>
>And yet Singapore's emigration rate is second only to China. No doubt
>there are more than a few downsides to that insane population density.
>
From what I have read that is largely driven by Singapore costs. To
>On Sun, 01 May 2016 12:05:39 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:49:30 -0700, whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:54:56 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>> In Singapore the
>>>>cop will copy your identity card and the court will call you. Evidence
>>>>will be submitted and the Judge will make a ruling. It takes about 15
>>>>minutes. And as I say, the fine will likely be in the $1,000 range.
>>>>The bus is probably in the $1.50 range.
>>>
>>>Gosh, you make it sound so simple. How do you explain the fact that
>>>most countries have a warrant system for scofflaws, and link failing
>>>to pay child support or car insurance to the issuance of drivers'
>>>licenses? Do you live in Singapore? If not, why not?
>>
>>No, but I lived there for a number of years. It might seem strange to
>>you but the average Singaporean is quite happy to live there.
>
>And yet Singapore's emigration rate is second only to China. No doubt
>there are more than a few downsides to that insane population density.
>
buy an automobile in Singapore one has to pay not only costs and taxes
but also obtain a Certificate of Entitlement (COE) in the appropriate
vehicle category. A COE represents a right to vehicle ownership and
use of the road for 10 years.
Typical vehicle cost in Singapore for a Toyota Corolla Altis, over
mentioned 10 year period would be $176,774. divided by 120 months that
is $1,473 and then you got to buy the gas.
I say, "I read" as none of the many Singaporean I know have ever
exhibited any desire to immigrate.
>Anyway, I accept that many Singaporeans are happy for some good
>reasons. Then again, lots of people are happy to live in Houston or
>South Taft for example. But do they actually know any better? I
>presume that Singaporeans rank freedom of the press and expression
>lower in importance than spit-free sidewalks.
Singaporean seem to prefer their low crime rates to "Freedom of the
Press". Although to a great extent they do enjoy freedom of the press.
Some years ago the Lee family, who encompass Lee Kuan Yew, the first
president of Singapore, and at least one of his sons, were given very
substantial rebates on some condominiums that they bought, the facts
were printed in the largest Singapore newspaper and I assume on the
smaller papers also.
>They probably can't even
>imagine an area like mine, where if you need to take a leak, you can
>just stop in the middle of the road. There aren't any sidewalks to
>defile and it's unlikely that anyone will witness the deed much less
>call the cops who'd consider it a prank call anyway. A deer or bear
>might take offense, but until they start wearing diapers there's no
>need to consider their opinion.
>>As for warrants, I thought I explained - the court calls you or
>>otherwise notifies you and you go to court. Otherwise they send a cop
>>or two around and arrest you.
>
>It sounds like the main difference is in the level of compliance.
>Authoritarian systems do have that going for them. But that advantage
>won't translate into widespread use of self driving cars any time soon
>anywhere near me or you.
Cheers,
John B.
Larry Jaques
May 1, 2016, 9:59:59 PM5/1/16
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>>Re self driving cars, I'll trust one when it can properly navigate
>>this intersection:
>>https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
>>
>>Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
>>processsing that for the first time.
What the hell are left turn arrows doing on the left lane arrow?
>>this intersection:
>>https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4112701,-70.7425002,19z/data=!3m1!1e3
>>
>>Zoom in on the directional arrows on the pavement and imagine
>>processsing that for the first time.
That would be hell to process for the first 100 times, wot?
--
Education is that which remains when one has
forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein
Martin Eastburn
May 1, 2016, 10:24:11 PM5/1/16
to
Those keep you in the inner circle as fast entry from outside is coming
into the circle in the outer circle. As you approach the exit two lanes
can exit (in this one ) (not French!) and if you don't keep to the left.
In France you might have 4 or 5 lanes around the circle. Only the
outside can come in and go out. The others are trapped until they move
back out. Been there and gone around a couple of times. Learning and
hearing horns along the way.
Martin
into the circle in the outer circle. As you approach the exit two lanes
can exit (in this one ) (not French!) and if you don't keep to the left.
In France you might have 4 or 5 lanes around the circle. Only the
outside can come in and go out. The others are trapped until they move
back out. Been there and gone around a couple of times. Learning and
hearing horns along the way.
Martin
Martin Eastburn
May 1, 2016, 10:28:07 PM5/1/16
to
They follow wire in the lane. Like the sniffers that locate power
and phone lines underground. Put RF on the line and sniff for RF.
It isn't airplane fly by wire - e.g. computer driver. It is playing
following the mouse as it runs the wire underground.
Martin
and phone lines underground. Put RF on the line and sniff for RF.
It isn't airplane fly by wire - e.g. computer driver. It is playing
following the mouse as it runs the wire underground.
Martin
whoyak...@gmail.com
May 2, 2016, 11:00:32 AM5/2/16
to
On Sun, 01 May 2016 11:16:22 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Cars with drive by wire? Which one(s)? So I can stay out of them.
Not to worry, your subsistence lifestyle will automatically keep you
out of all modern vehicles, and out of some not so modern ones as well
apparently.
wrote:
>Cars with drive by wire? Which one(s)? So I can stay out of them.
out of all modern vehicles, and out of some not so modern ones as well
apparently.
Good Soldier Schweik
May 2, 2016, 9:02:56 PM5/2/16
to
truck out of the repair shop.
--
Cheers,
Schweik
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