conduit hickey question

[Cydrome Leader]

I was looking for a 1/2" EMC hickey for some tight, ugly bends, but don't
see any in any catalogs. A few places still make rigid/IMC hickeys for 1/2
but are these compatible or they too loose, and will collapse thinwall?

[rangerssuck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of EMC. I think you mean EMT which is thinwall. The tool you're looking for is something like this: http://goo.gl/QgY0rg .

[Cydrome Leader]

typo, EMT, the thin stuff.

Ideal had a 74-010, but it's discontinued. GB, greenlee and klein don't
have any EMT hickeys listed at all. Not sure what the big deal about
finding one of these is.

[dpb]

Never tried, but my guess would be the latter...

Why not just use pull elbow(s) or conduit bodies of the right bent?
It'll only take a couple of tighter bends to make it difficult to pull,
anyway.

I just was reminded of how fast total bend angle adds up in pulling the
3-phase for the woodshop the last few days---nothing but a couple 90s
and 2 45s with a few additional wiggles to get around the beams and a
run of only some 15-18 ft was more than I could pull; ended up having to
disconnect in the middle and pull the two halves to get it
finished--would've been _much_ simpler if had broken down and put in
another pull body instead of trying to have a smooth run...

Just sayin'... :) You _might_ be solving the wrong problem even if you
find and can make the bends.

PS: I've seen guys bend EMT freehand by packing it solidly with sand to
prevent the wall collapse but I've never done it myself...I have, once,
had some success with a home-made "tubing bender" on the principle of
the small tubing benders of inserting in a spring that is only a tiny
bit over the OD. Finding such a spring, of course, is the trick; just
happened to have one for the 3/4" by pure luck from an old spray boom
rig but I wouldn't have anything around that I know of for 1/2" even if
you were close by... :)

--

[Bob La Londe]

"rangerssuck" <range...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7e3c2fb0-2c1e-4c3e...@googlegroups.com...

I thought I recalled seeing a conduit called *I*MC that is heavy enough to
use tapered NPT ends, but not as heavy as rigid.

[Bob La Londe]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message news:nhfo1b$qve$1...@dont-email.me...

I was always taught the maximum total including wiggles is 360 degrees of
bend between pulling points. If at all possible I never run more than 270.
Even that is nearly impossible when you get about 60-70% of capacity. NEC
and I disagree about 100% of capacity. I've never been able to pull a
conduit close to as full as what NEC says is 100%. No amount of monkey snot
will help at that point.

[Gunner Asch]

The use of rigid conduit has become quite rare, so one sees very few
actual hickeys anymore. I have (2) of them, but havent used them in
years. The standard EMT bender is used on a 500:1 base if not more
in most industries these days. The only place Im familiar with their
use, is in parts of the oil fields and often on drilling rig/workover
rig maintainence..and even then..Ive seen a LOT of EMT used on
drilling rigs/workover rigs. Reliable waterproof connections and care
of design...has removed rigid from a lot of places it used to be
regularly found.

Anyways...good luck finding a hickey used for EMT...they are few and
far between. Sometimes..with luck...you can use a 1/2" with 3/4'
EMT...but...cringe. If I were you..Id go ask at the oldest
electrical contractor business in your area. They probably have some
collecting dust.

Gunner

[Cydrome Leader]

dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
> On 05/17/2016 11:19 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> I was looking for a 1/2" EMC hickey for some tight, ugly bends, but don't
>> see any in any catalogs. A few places still make rigid/IMC hickeys for 1/2
>> but are these compatible or they too loose, and will collapse thinwall?
>
> Never tried, but my guess would be the latter...
>
> Why not just use pull elbow(s) or conduit bodies of the right bent?
> It'll only take a couple of tighter bends to make it difficult to pull,
> anyway.
>
> I just was reminded of how fast total bend angle adds up in pulling the
> 3-phase for the woodshop the last few days---nothing but a couple 90s
> and 2 45s with a few additional wiggles to get around the beams and a
> run of only some 15-18 ft was more than I could pull; ended up having to
> disconnect in the middle and pull the two halves to get it
> finished--would've been _much_ simpler if had broken down and put in
> another pull body instead of trying to have a smooth run...
>
> Just sayin'... :) You _might_ be solving the wrong problem even if you
> find and can make the bends.

No question about it- this is to cram stuff where it doesn't really belong
as to not have to tear other stuff out. It's still less trashy than
stringing up box after box with couplers though. Stuff like that makes me
cringe.

I can understand why you'd never use a hickey bender for a new wiring job.

> PS: I've seen guys bend EMT freehand by packing it solidly with sand to
> prevent the wall collapse but I've never done it myself...I have, once,
> had some success with a home-made "tubing bender" on the principle of
> the small tubing benders of inserting in a spring that is only a tiny
> bit over the OD. Finding such a spring, of course, is the trick; just
> happened to have one for the 3/4" by pure luck from an old spray boom
> rig but I wouldn't have anything around that I know of for 1/2" even if
> you were close by... :)

I've always had crappy luck with spring benders. Sometimes they just don't
want to come off anymore, and a "unscrewing" them can be a real pain.

[ABLE1]

Simple:

Search eBay for the following:

BENFIELD CONDUIT BENDER HICKEY NO 7 3/4" and 1/2" Rigid Conduit

$19.95 plus $12.00 shipping

More than 10 available.

Good Luck!!

[Cydrome Leader]

That's marked for rigid- worried it may just collapse 1/2 thinwall as it
will be fairly oversized.

[dpb]

On 05/17/2016 1:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
...

> I was always taught the maximum total including wiggles is 360 degrees of

> bend between pulling points. ...

That's so...just wasn't thinkin' while doing the run messing around
trying to get the stuff located neatly. Seemed so short... :)

If I'd even one 45 pull elbow would likely have been piece o' cake but
didn't have one and it's a long ways into town and, and, and, ...


--

[dpb]

On 05/17/2016 3:23 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...

> No question about it- this is to cram stuff where it doesn't really belong
> as to not have to tear other stuff out. It's still less trashy than
> stringing up box after box with couplers though. Stuff like that makes me
> cringe.

I wouldn't say "boxes" but a judicious pull elbow or two _might_
simplify the rest...that's sorta' what I was up against although I did
tear out some old stuff that I'll never use again from the old feed mill
motor starters 'cuz may repurpose them later...

Again, "just sayin'..." :)

--

[dpb]

On 05/17/2016 1:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
...

> I was always taught the maximum total including wiggles is 360 degrees of

> bend between pulling points. ...

That's so...just wasn't thinkin' while doing the run messing around
trying to get the stuff located neatly. Seemed so short... :)

...


It did add up to (just) under 360, btw, but just no how was I a-gonna'
be the one to pull it--I suspect in another location for the pull where
could get a better angle at it even I could have and I'm sure a stout
young journeyman would have had no real trouble...

--

[Jim Wilkins]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message

news:nhg73r$msa$1...@dont-email.me...

I started buying two of whatever common small fittings I needed one
of, or four extras for bolts. Now I can build most anything from parts
on hand and then add them to the shopping list to replace later. I
just bought two conduit power cord strain reliefs after using the last
one on a Powerstat outlet box.

--jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message

news:nhga31$uru$1...@dont-email.me...

Are you running solid or stranded wire?

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> The use of rigid conduit has become quite rare ...

I always thought rigid was for use outdoors.

[ABLE1]

Ok then try this.

http://www.aikencolon.com/ideal-74-010-ductile-iron-hickey-conduit-bender

[Gunner Asch]

It wont work for 1/2" Emt. It might..might work for 3/4" EMT

[Gunner Asch]

Bravo!! That will work!!

Making a bookmark as this is the only one Ive seen in years

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:20:39 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> The use of rigid conduit has become quite rare ...
>
>I always thought rigid was for use outdoors.

It was, , for many years because the connections were threaded..hence
could be waterproofed. The newer waterproof connectors for EMT have
largely taken over from rigid..both due to cost and ease of use. The
only time I see rigid used today..is in hazardous environments...IE
fire/safety applications and rough duty applications..such as on
drilling rig masts and in hazardous environments. Rigid is of course
tougher than EMT...and far more expensive for materials and for labor
to install. One finds it used in outdoor applications that will be
there for decades or longer. It IS superior to EMT...but the need for
that superiority is often not there.

Gunner

[dpb]

On 05/17/2016 7:02 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

>> It did add up to (just) under 360, btw, but just no how was I
>> a-gonna' be the one to pull it--I suspect in another location for
>> the pull where could get a better angle at it even I could have and
>> I'm sure a stout young journeyman would have had no real trouble...
>
> Are you running solid or stranded wire?

Were two o' each...again, making do with what on hand...

--

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Gunner Asch wrote:
>On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:20:39 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> >
>> >The use of rigid conduit has become quite rare ...
>
>>I always thought rigid was for use outdoors.
>
>It was, , for many years because the connections were threaded..hence could
>be waterproofed

For anything on contract, i'd stick with rigid if its not for inside wiring.

[Jim Wilkins]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message

news:nhgp86$431$1...@dont-email.me...

In the factory where I learned to wire industrial machinery the
standard practice was to use straight lengths of conduit between pull
elbows, or Sealtite for tricky tight spots and motors. Since they
built custom equipment for the testing of new products the chance of
having to add more wires to accomodate design or spec changes later
was pretty high.

The wire outside control boxes was 16 AWG or larger stranded MTW
(machine tool wire), which I think was a General Motors spec.

I designed and assembled the ladder-logic control boxes but didn't do
very much of the work outside them.
--jsw

[dpb]

On 05/17/2016 7:00 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

> I started buying two of whatever common small fittings I needed one
> of, or four extras for bolts. Now I can build most anything from parts
> on hand and then add them to the shopping list to replace later. I
> just bought two conduit power cord strain reliefs after using the last
> one on a Powerstat outlet box.

...

I've discussed this project more in the rec.woodworking group as it's
converting a corner of the old barn to accommodate the woodshop more
fully and place the planer in a new spot...it's an old (70s/80s vintage)
Powermatic industrial machine on 3-phase so it's the power to it plus
the phase converter. There's a lot of old conduit and pieces-parts
around plus other new stuff but one of the goals was to use up as much
of the old as could...but, given the price of fittings at the local,
I've searched for and found various supplies of NOS and estate and other
distressed-sale items and have bought couplings and connectors in lots
of from 15 to 25 plus half-dozen various directional conduit bodies,
etc., etc., etc., from 1/2" to 1" for the supply bin. But, just as with
other stuff, it never seems to matter how much stuff there is on hand,
there's always something that would make it work better or in some cases
that is indispensible.

The best bargain was 25 3/4" RACO compression couplings for 12.50,
shipping included, but was able to beat the best online prices quite a
bit on all and there's no comparison to local retail and the only
electrical distributor here is ridiculously expensive and not locally
owned, anyway, but a branch office who won't talk account because as
farm don't do enough to meet their imposed monthly minimums.

Anyway, I've now got more of much of this than will ever use in what
time I have left but will undoubtedly still find pieces that will have
to purchase; it's inevitable.

--

[Gunner Asch]

On Wed, 18 May 2016 02:42:39 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com

wrote:

>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:20:39 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com
>wrote:
>>
>>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> >
>>> >The use of rigid conduit has become quite rare ...
>>
>>>I always thought rigid was for use outdoors.
>>
>>It was, , for many years because the connections were threaded..hence could
>>be waterproofed
>
>For anything on contract, i'd stick with rigid if its not for inside wiring.

True...if its required in the contract. Ive had a life time of
experience in replacing corroded EMT in various locations. Thats one
of the reasons they developed PVC sched 40 and 80.

Gunner

[dpb]

On 05/18/2016 6:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

> In the factory where I learned to wire industrial machinery the
> standard practice was to use straight lengths of conduit between pull
> elbows, or Sealtite for tricky tight spots and motors. Since they
> built custom equipment for the testing of new products the chance of
> having to add more wires to accomodate design or spec changes later
> was pretty high.
>
> The wire outside control boxes was 16 AWG or larger stranded MTW
> (machine tool wire), which I think was a General Motors spec.
>
> I designed and assembled the ladder-logic control boxes but didn't do
> very much of the work outside them.

...

For any place with frequently changing requirements that (or open
conduit trays) would be the logical approach, yes.

I spent most of working career consulting for the electric utilities
doing R&D instrumentation work but was virtually always all temporary
rigging for testing/development purposes; the instrumentation racks and
all were done by a tech so didn't have to deal with that all that
much--and he was _much_ better at "dressing" a cabinet than I (and well
above average overall).

There was a period of time when we were doing online coal analyzers at
mines and prep plants, loadout stations and the like. There the
customer was responsible for the mechanical installation of the field
wiring which included HV coax for the scintillation crystal electronics
(these were gamma-spec devices, basically). At one location the guys
couldn't pull the coax and control cables by hand so they went and got
the front end loader and pulled 'em with no trouble! :) Needless to
say, at 2400 V, it wasn't long before the HV supply wasn't. They ended
up having to dig up the installation as the conduit was full of water
besides. Turns out they'd put so much on it in tension and speed, the
friction heat had actually melted/cut through the 2" plastic conduit
they'd use in the inner corner of the sweep going underground...

--

[Cydrome Leader]

That item was discontinued 3-4 years ago by Ideal. The company listing the
product still says they have no idea why it still shows up, and doesn't
carry anything from Ideal anymore.

I'm not bullshitting anybody here, it seems like these are just impossible
to find for some reason. I even spoke to Ideal about this, they weren't
sure why the product was dropped either.

Local electrical supply houses know what I'm talking about, but don't have
any, except "in the computer".

It's weird.

[dpb]

On 05/18/2016 11:19 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...

> I'm not bullshitting anybody here, it seems like these are just impossible

> to find for some reason. ...

Don't doubt it; likely stricter Code enforcement led to such reduced
demand they have simply been dropped by manufacturers for lack of demand.

Searching eBay or the like for one that just shows up from an estate
sale is likely the current recourse unless you happen to know a local
contractor who might just happen to have one you could borrow (or offer
to rent).

How many of such bends and how tight are you talking here? Unless you
can afford to wait to find the proper tool, I'd say give the sand-fill
freehand bend a shot--if you ruin one short section testing it'd be no
big economic loss. You could even start with the standard bender and
have a 5" 90-setback at whatever angle you want past that as a starting
point then simply work on getting the radius down where you want it.

And, of course, there's always heat to help so it is almost like a wet
noodle if you can stomach the discoloration in the end.

--

[ABLE1]

I never had a need, so my solutions were not tested. Sorry!!
Thinking the only other solution is as was already posted in making a
friend out
of a older electrician.

Good Luck!!

[Jim Wilkins]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message

news:nhi2k0$u1n$1...@dont-email.me...

So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 5/18/2016 12:19 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

> ....

> I'm not bullshitting anybody here, it seems like these are just impossible

> to find for some reason....

Well, this is r.c.metalworking, so if you decide to make one, you could
get good advice.

Bob

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Home Despot carries the Klein bender as well as the ideal., Acklands
Grainger carries Greenlee. They are also all over Flea-Bay.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nhisi...@news3.newsguy.com...

I just bought one of these "scrappers", knowing it would need some
rework:
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-mutt-with-wood-handle-95005.html

The "cutting edge" is an insignificant bevel that merely indicates
where to apply an angle grinder, and the handle ferrule should be
welded solid, perhaps after refitting it to a larger diameter Peavey
handle or 1" pipe.

It looks like it might be useful to modify into tools that need long
handles and a laterally offset flat area to bolt on shop-made
attachments, for instance a tubing or EMT bender.

[dpb]

On 05/18/2016 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

> So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?

Yeah, sorta' at least but don't get the connection (so to speak :) )???

--

[Jim Wilkins]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message

news:nhkekp$tq5$1...@dont-email.me...

Conduit on the ceiling, drops to the machines.

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:39:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:nhisi...@news3.newsguy.com...
>> On 5/18/2016 12:19 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>>
>>> ....
>>> I'm not bullshitting anybody here, it seems like these are just
>>> impossible
>>> to find for some reason....
>>
>> Well, this is r.c.metalworking, so if you decide to make one, you
>> could get good advice.
>>
>> Bob
>
>I just bought one of these "scrappers", knowing it would need some
>rework:
>http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-mutt-with-wood-handle-95005.html
>
>The "cutting edge" is an insignificant bevel that merely indicates
>where to apply an angle grinder,

<snort> Grok that in its entirety.

>and the handle ferrule should be
>welded solid, perhaps after refitting it to a larger diameter Peavey
>handle or 1" pipe.

Pipe would give it more bite, methinks, without adding too much
weight.

>It looks like it might be useful to modify into tools that need long
>handles and a laterally offset flat area to bolt on shop-made
>attachments, for instance a tubing or EMT bender.

I'm shallow-trenching to lay in drip to my new garden beds and could
have used one of those yesterday when I came up against a 3" redwood
root. The square-nosed shovel did the job, but it took longer. I
didn't feel like getting out the mattock.

--
H.L. Mencken wrote in the American Mercury, April 1924, that the aim
of public education is not to fill the young of the species with
knowledge and awaken their intelligence. Nothing could be further
from the truth. The aim is simply to reduce as many individuals as
possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized
citizenry to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the
U.S. and that is its aim everywhere else.

LJ sez: Thankfully, the teachers back then didn't allow that to happen.

[dpb]

On 05/19/2016 9:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "dpb"<no...@non.net> wrote in message
> news:nhkekp$tq5$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 05/18/2016 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?
>>
>> Yeah, sorta' at least but don't get the connection (so to speak
>> :) )???

...

> Conduit on the ceiling, drops to the machines.

Well, yeah, that I got; just couldn't see that it had any bearing on
previous comment...it's what I've done for stationary machines in middle
of shop floor but at least I've never seen in an industrial plant
application although I'm sure there must be places where is...

--

[Jim Wilkins]

"Larry Jaques" <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote in message
news:vckrjb9aut65cbqqi...@4ax.com...

I have a solid steel San Angelo bar but my aim with it usually gives
out before the root breaks. I bought it to pry loose the tightly
packed stones in New England glacial till, so I haven't ground a
fragile wood-cutting edge on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digging_bar

This one is closer to a bark spud and light enough to keep on target
longer. I'm getting too old to do heavy manual labor for very long.
--jsw

[Cydrome Leader]

dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
> On 05/18/2016 11:19 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> ...
>
>> I'm not bullshitting anybody here, it seems like these are just impossible
>> to find for some reason. ...
>
> Don't doubt it; likely stricter Code enforcement led to such reduced
> demand they have simply been dropped by manufacturers for lack of demand.
>
> Searching eBay or the like for one that just shows up from an estate
> sale is likely the current recourse unless you happen to know a local
> contractor who might just happen to have one you could borrow (or offer
> to rent).
>
> How many of such bends and how tight are you talking here? Unless you
> can afford to wait to find the proper tool, I'd say give the sand-fill
> freehand bend a shot--if you ruin one short section testing it'd be no

No super crazy bends need, just short ones that fit in less than the
standard radius and to go around some existing conduit. I found a supply
house that claims to have 3 of the Ideal hickeys in stock, so I placed an
order, we'll see if they materialize or not when they try to pick them.

> big economic loss. You could even start with the standard bender and
> have a 5" 90-setback at whatever angle you want past that as a starting
> point then simply work on getting the radius down where you want it.
>
> And, of course, there's always heat to help so it is almost like a wet
> noodle if you can stomach the discoloration in the end.

The weedburner is an interesting approach.

[Jim Wilkins]

"dpb" <no...@non.net> wrote in message

news:nhkmao$rj6$1...@dont-email.me...

I saw them in electronic labs, cubicles and light manufacturing plants
where the floor layout changed for new products or equipment. IIRC the
drops hung low enough to be tied to benches or were coiled and
tie-wrapped above head height in more open areas. They might be a
nuisance in a wood shop where you handle long stock.

--jsw

[dpb]

On 05/19/2016 11:32 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

> I saw them in electronic labs, cubicles and light manufacturing plants
> where the floor layout changed for new products or equipment. IIRC the
> drops hung low enough to be tied to benches or were coiled and
> tie-wrapped above head height in more open areas. They might be a
> nuisance in a wood shop where you handle long stock.

...

Can be (nuisance, that is) in some geometries; it's better if can have
raised floor so everything is out of the way, certainly.

But, in some layouts it can be arranged so there's not a need to swing
long stock in the direction where the ceiling drop will interfere; in
others, "not so much".

The planer for which this run is being done sits along an outside wall
and has dedicated outlet for it on that wall -- it's arranged to be a
little closer on the exit end to a door(*) so anything up to 18-ft can
be handled easily. _Really_ long stuff could actually be fed thru
another partition break and, theoretically at least, go in the door on
the opposite end of the barn and all the way thru! :)

(*) This corner of the barn originally held the milking stalls; they
were removed 60 yr ago when put in the feedmill bins in the mow and the
elevator leg and roller mill, etc. We no longer run the feed lot or
cattle so I've dismantled the chutes from the bins to the return leg so
there's about 10' x 32' open area outside the outer column row. The
planer takes up a fair chunk of the width where it sits; while I've not
actually taken a measurement it's at least 4' wide as the motor is
mounted on a bolt-on stand on one side so it adds almost 2' on its own...

The TS sits in another corner at the moment in a section where it has
only 10' or so unobstructed. That corner was the only area that was
still dry when we came back to the farm after Dad died; he had decided
not to invest any more in the old barn so it hadn't been re-roofed.
That was the first major project after--almost 3 full years of fairly
major rework including the roof. Hired hand deserted over one Christmas
while we were off visiting daughter in WA and that kinda' brought the
project to a halt with so much to get done with only me...I'm trying to
get back to it...

--

--

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The factory I will be in half an hour from now has ALL equipment
powered witth cable drops from the ceiling including about 35
computers and over a dozen lacer printers, as well as presses, sewing
machines, skivers etc.

[dpb]

On 05/19/2016 11:54 AM, dpb wrote:
...

> The planer for which this run is being done sits along an outside wall

> and has dedicated outlet for it on that wall --...

And, pleased to say, made the connection to single-phase power this
morning and powered up -- all is well!!! :)

--

[Gunner Asch]

"Fishing Els" are probably the cheapest short term fix. Just
saying....

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/crouse-hinds/commercial_products/products/commercial_fittings/emt/pullingelbowsforemtconduitfittings.html

[Gunner Asch]

Some places use only conduit. I prefer conduit AND raceway if I have a
lot of wire to hang

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-muIN20AyMUE/Tf3cmY7DqjI/AAAAAAAAR5c/LerRxPc8quUi_XMPTL0WUnf5bEgAZgASQCCo/s576/110127_165348.jpg

Gunner

[dpb]

On 05/21/2016 2:46 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

> "Fishing Els" are probably the cheapest short term fix. Just
> saying....

Suggested that in first suggestion, too... :)

--

[Martin Eastburn]

That looks nice. We had large buss bars across the ceiling area.
One carried 50 cycle and the rest 60. Had large handle boxes that
plugged into the buss with internal breakers. A drop box. When the
machines needed power we used 6" pipe to bring it to the second floor
and then into a service box. It was a 5 wire 3 phase 440v service.

Martin

[Gunner Asch]

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/ShopsIveBuiltGertlerIndustriesCostaMesaCa

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/GosscoStartupAlsoSeeGosscoShutdown#

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/GosscoShutdown#

[Cydrome Leader]

Cydrome Leader <pres...@mungepanix.com> wrote:
> I was looking for a 1/2" EMC hickey for some tight, ugly bends, but don't
> see any in any catalogs. A few places still make rigid/IMC hickeys for 1/2
> but are these compatible or they too loose, and will collapse thinwall?

Finally found an old stock, in the box Ideal 74-011 1/2 EMT hickey. It's
iron with the standard 3/4" thread for a handle. If you need it, the good
folks at frostelectric.com have one left.

If you try a full bend it will kink any EMT I've dug up. If you go easy
and walk the bender along a bend, you can get a nice looking, short
radius. Wasn't really expecting too much more than that, but it's way
cooler than the standard bender.

The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
compare to stuff made recently.

Will try some salt or sand next to see if I can really crank in a tight
bend without getting that one kink on the inside of the radius, just for
the hell of it.

[dpb]

On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...

> Finally found an old stock, in the box Ideal 74-011 1/2 EMT hickey. It's
> iron with the standard 3/4" thread for a handle. If you need it, the good
> folks at frostelectric.com have one left.
>
> If you try a full bend it will kink any EMT I've dug up. If you go easy
> and walk the bender along a bend, you can get a nice looking, short
> radius. Wasn't really expecting too much more than that, but it's way
> cooler than the standard bender.
>
> The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
> to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
> compare to stuff made recently.

AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
seems.

> Will try some salt or sand next to see if I can really crank in a tight
> bend without getting that one kink on the inside of the radius, just for
> the hell of it.

Will be interested to hear how that works; the one demo showed a guy
making a "spring" coiling a 10-ft section I forget how many times...but,
it was still on the order of the radius of a standard bend.

Don't think you'll get sharper than the pull elbow would have given
right off the shelf, though... :) <yeah, de debbil made me say it>

--

[Cydrome Leader]

dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
> On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> ...
>> Finally found an old stock, in the box Ideal 74-011 1/2 EMT hickey. It's
>> iron with the standard 3/4" thread for a handle. If you need it, the good
>> folks at frostelectric.com have one left.
>>
>> If you try a full bend it will kink any EMT I've dug up. If you go easy
>> and walk the bender along a bend, you can get a nice looking, short
>> radius. Wasn't really expecting too much more than that, but it's way
>> cooler than the standard bender.
>>
>> The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
>> to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
>> compare to stuff made recently.
>
> AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
> retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
> looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
> the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
> late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
> seems.

I've not seen any import junk here in Chicago yet. We have one of the
largest conduit makers (Wheatland) in the city and another just ouside it
(Allied). It's all even the big box places carry, and they love the
cheapest junk.

Lots of the die cast fittings are from India these days though.

[dpb]

On 05/26/2016 1:37 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>> On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...

>>> The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
>>> to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
>>> compare to stuff made recently.
>>
>> AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
>> retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
>> looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
>> the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
>> late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
>> seems.
>
> I've not seen any import junk here in Chicago yet. We have one of the
> largest conduit makers (Wheatland) in the city and another just ouside it
> (Allied). It's all even the big box places carry, and they love the
> cheapest junk.

...

Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.

I'd say they've "cheapened-up" the manufacturing still keeping to at
least the minimum of the pertinent UL and ANSI Standards.

--

[dpb]

On 05/26/2016 2:19 PM, dpb wrote:
...

> I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
> Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually

> Allied. ...

Just out of curiosity, what can you get it for there? 10-ft 1/2" E-Z
Pull is $2.29/stick at Mead; Ace and a farm/home store were more like
$3+, didn't even bother to ask at the local Stannion distributor; they'd
probably be $5 or more given they won't give me a discount since don't
do enough work on regular basis to meet their monthly minimums...

--

[Cydrome Leader]

dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
> On 05/26/2016 1:37 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>>> On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> ...
>
>>>> The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
>>>> to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
>>>> compare to stuff made recently.
>>>
>>> AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
>>> retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
>>> looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
>>> the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
>>> late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
>>> seems.
>>
>> I've not seen any import junk here in Chicago yet. We have one of the
>> largest conduit makers (Wheatland) in the city and another just ouside it
>> (Allied). It's all even the big box places carry, and they love the
>> cheapest junk.
> ...
>
> Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
> old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.

Thanks for looking this up.

> I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
> Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
> Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
> certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.

The new stuff has the shiny spangled zinc coating, older stuff seem to
have a thicker, dull grey coating. Neither flake off, but the grey looking
stuff looks like it's galvanealed. I don't see any conduit with the inch
markings on it anymore either, but it may exist somewhere or be an options
you can pay for.

> I'd say they've "cheapened-up" the manufacturing still keeping to at
> least the minimum of the pertinent UL and ANSI Standards.

That's quite possible. I'm sort of surprised they still make this stuff
here and not in mexico. Maybe the plant costs too much to move, and I know
the union is involved. The Wheatland plants are pretty large.

[Cydrome Leader]

Usually right at $2 give or take 10 cents. Even if you don't have an
account and pay cash at an electrical distrubutor it's under $2 a piece
even if you just get a few, and a nice place will even load them into your
vehicle while you drink their coffee and watch them fuss with the 3 part
dot matrix printer for a few minutes while trying to print a receipt.

The nearest home depot claims over 52,000 in stock and if you get 100 or
more the price drops to $1.89.

[Gunner Asch]

On Thu, 26 May 2016 21:52:43 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
<pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>>
>> Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
>> old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.
>
>Thanks for looking this up.
>
>> I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
>> Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
>> Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
>> certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.
>
>The new stuff has the shiny spangled zinc coating, older stuff seem to
>have a thicker, dull grey coating. Neither flake off, but the grey looking
>stuff looks like it's galvanealed. I don't see any conduit with the inch
>markings on it anymore either, but it may exist somewhere or be an options
>you can pay for.

http://www.republicconduit.com/

http://www.republicconduit.com/en/Products.aspx

[Gunner Asch]

I pay $1.50 a stick at Hanks Electric, and $1.75 a stick at Home
Despot, So Cal.

[dpb]

Sometimes it would be advantageous to have a larger market nearby...the
nearest HD/Menards are 60+ mi and were, when I checked online, higher
than Mead and I don't _think_ that's the price direction in which could
make up for it with the mileage... :)

--

[dpb]

Other than the color difference from the zinc, what I see are fairly
sizable imperfections in the surface, the tubing seams are obvious,
etc., etc., etc., ... that is, it just "looks cheap" in comparison plus
bending it it simply isn't as stiff.

Not that it really matters that much; it still functions...and when it's
in place it pretty much gets ignored, anyway.

I've not seen any marked, either, altho there are a few sticks of it in
the salvage pile. I suspect as you say it's a premium but probably
somebody still makes it.

I saw Allied has some variations with formed-in compression or screw
connectors in their product line now (and probably for quite some time
but I hadn't seen that before)

--

[dpb]

On 05/26/2016 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...
> http://www.republicconduit.com/en/Products.aspx

I see the "indenter" couplings in the top picture above...found some of
them in the reycle here that had to have been some contractor Dad used
at some time; there's no crimper around. I really like those but while
some searching uncovered some available pretty cheaply, the crimp tool
is too pricey for such a small amount of work -- unfortunately, none
showed up in estate or similar distress sales on eBay or elsewhere...

--

[Cydrome Leader]

asking $14 with shipping and you can make an offer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrical-Conduit-Crimper-Indenter-/182138457018?hash=item2a684c4bba:g:FqAAAOSwll1Wu58-

[dpb]

On 05/27/2016 3:56 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:

...

>> ... the crimp tool

>> is too pricey for such a small amount of work -- unfortunately, none
>> showed up in estate or similar distress sales on eBay or elsewhere...
>
> asking $14 with shipping and you can make an offer:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrical-Conduit-Crimper-Indenter-/182138457018?hash=item2a684c4bba:g:FqAAAOSwll1Wu58-

Huh! I had just searched a day or so ago again...thanks! I may just
jump on that just on general principles...

Thanks again...

--