OT - Honda lawnmower problem and fix

[Bob Engelhardt]

My wife has a Honda lawnmower that has had a lot of problems. A
persistent one is hard starting 1st time and then running 10-20 seconds
on restarts.

I Googled it and found a forum where they said "spark plug". What? No!
- this is obviously a fuel problem. But poster after poster said "Worked
for me". So I tried it and it did work! Amazing, but there you are.

I still don't know why.

Bob

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oi1rs...@news6.newsguy.com...

Was it the original plug?

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 6/16/2017 8:58 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

> Was it the original plug?

Maybe. She took it to the dealer once & they might have replaced it, or
not.

It was pretty dirty/sooty, so maybe that was the problem. I should
blast clean it and try it.

[Robert Roland]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:04:04 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote:

>"spark plug". What? No!
>- this is obviously a fuel problem.

Yes, spark plugs can fail in strange ways.

I once had a car where one cylinder would stop firing when I added
lots of throttle. It was very impractical when trying to overtake. It
was the spark plug.
--
RoRo

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:oi27i...@news6.newsguy.com...

A new plug is high on my troubleshooting sequence, after cleaning the
air filter. It helps often enough to justify buying a few spares in
advance.

Replacing the HF genny's plug didn't help, although I found it gapped
below spec. The NGK equivalent lacked the needed sleeve that screws on
the terminal stud, a reason to save a few from old plugs.

I didn't trade it under warranty for a new one because the older 2200W
HF 61169 outputs a confirmed 18A while the newer 1600W 62523 model is
rated at 13A, and I may need both the fridge and A/C during a summer
hurricane power outage. Hopefully both won't try to start
simultaneously while I'm asleep or out cleaning up.

I read that the gel that accumulates in carburetors is aluminum
hydroxide corrosion from water in the ethanol. The only solvent for it
I know of is too caustic to use. While searching for info on the HF
carb I read the manuals for Honda inverter generators whose idle
"pilot" adjusting screws break at the neck-down and must be replaced
when removed to blow out the passages.
http://www.partspak.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=337228&gclid=CJnuu-TlxNQCFZSFfgod2ksHoQ

-jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:oi27i...@news6.newsguy.com...

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23108754-Tech-Torch-Sparkplugs-Stay-FAR-FAR-Away

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 6/16/2017 11:23 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
> It was pretty dirty/sooty, so maybe that was the problem. I should
> blast clean it and try it.

I cleaned it and the mower ran!

But it needs some choke, even after it's warm. Probably why the plug
was so dirty. These things don't have mixture adjustment, unless you
break a security screw. That's next.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 6/17/2017 9:31 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23108754-Tech-Torch-Sparkplugs-Stay-FAR-FAR-Away

OMG. Honda uses NGK

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Why? Blast cleaning is no longer recommended - too easy to get a grain
of blast medium where it doesn't belong - doing expensive damage - and
plugs are CHEAP!!!

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Ethanol gas will require choke to make it run right in many cases -
also sometines passages are restricted but not plugged - running a
dose of Sea-Foam in the gas often solves the latter.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

NGK isn't a BAD plug, but I always found the equivalent NipponDenso
was a better bet back in my Toyota days

[Jim Wilkins]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:5ribkc1eqvt6cv770...@4ax.com...

If someone finds gel in their carb bowl it would be useful to see what
if anything dissolves it.
-jsw

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 6/17/2017 8:39 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Ethanol gas will require choke to make it run right in many cases -
> also sometines passages are restricted but not plugged - running a
> dose of Sea-Foam in the gas often solves the latter.
>

I did clean the carb with carb cleaner, before I Google told me about
the spark plug. Sea-Form couldn't hurt, so I'll try that 1st.

Thanks

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 6/17/2017 8:26 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Why? Blast cleaning is no longer recommended - too easy to get a grain
> of blast medium where it doesn't belong - doing expensive damage - and
> plugs are CHEAP!!!
>

I do already have a new plug. The blasting was to see if the soot was
the problem.

[Bill]

You bet. My late father had given me a, virtually brand new, lawn
trimmer that wouldn't run more than a few sec. I had gone over it with a
fine tooth comb, everything seemed correct. Ran great, when it would
run. It was a bad spark plug.

--
Email address is a Spam trap.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It's your dime, and your time - but you already KNOW the plug was the
problem - if you want to know if it was carbon, just wash it with
laquer thinners and bake it untill it's white. I do it with my torch -
just heat it up with the propane torch until the porcelain tip glows
then keep it in the envelope of the flame for a few seconds - comes
perfectly clean - and USUALLY restores the function of the plug. Years
ago with leaded gas sometimes it would have a yellow or green "glaze:
on the insulator that would not burn off, or blast off. Some product
of sulpher and lead catalyzed by the silica in the insulator - I
believe it was lead sulphide (Germanium) - basically a cheap
semiconductor

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

When I was in trade school part of my class inherited an F head Jeep
engine that had been rebuilt by the previous class and it would not
atart. ASfter a couple weeks I said it can't be rocket science - the
engine is totally rebuilt - it HAS to run. For opening my mouth, I was
put in charge of getting it started. Within 15 minutes I had pulled
the previously cleaned plugs and replaced them with another set out of
the pluf box, and had it running. There was more that needed fixing
to get it driveable - but the plugs solved the start/run problem.

[Jim Wilkins]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:biddkct9rvf8kbitb...@4ax.com...

Not to pick on you, but lead sulfide is Galena, the semiconductor used
for early "cat's whisker" radio detector diodes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s-whisker_detector

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

You are right. I was wrong - but it was STILL a cheap diode - and as a
semicinductor it had a very detrimental effect on the spark - - -

[Jim Wilkins]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:k9tdkcd113qin88b1...@4ax.com...

You never know what will become a True Fact after someone with a good
reputation like yours posts it here.

Sulfur is an unavoidable contaminant of petroleum products. The cure
is adding phosphorus to bind to the lead in your 100LL.
http://alcorinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/TCP_FAQ_06_12_no_bleeds.pdf

-jsw

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 18:40:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Yes, TCP (Tom Cat Piss) is used a lot in aircraft designed to run 85
octane AvGas, where 100LL causes problems. It helps prevent the
dreaded "morning sickness" too - where valves hang when cold from lead
deposits. Lead Phosphate is a lot softer and easier to get rid of then
Lead Oxide, and is also less conductive on the plug insulators.

100 Low Lead has a LOT more lead than the old 85 octane leaded avgas.

[Jim Wilkins]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:mpaekcl66t48a4937...@4ax.com...

Is CAM2 non-ethanol racing fuel useful in small engines?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:23:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

If it is leaded I'd stay away from it.

[Larry Jaques]

Speaking of Toyotas, clare, I'm getting a triple warning light on my
dash. Anti-skid lamp, check engine lamp, and flashing VSC Off lamp.
OBDII code P2442. I called the dealer and she said it could be
something as simple as a bad gas cap. I popped the gas cap off and
checked the mating surfaces. Nothing found. I filled up the tank
yesterday and the lights all were off when I restarted! I drove
around doing errands and the lights remained off...until today. I
checked when I started it this morning and they were off. By the time
I had driven down to the stop sign (<1/4mi) they were on again and
stayed on through 2 hops today.

Any tips to troubleshoot or repair this? One of the Toy mechs showing
a 5.7L engine repair on Youtube said it could cost up to $1,900.00 for
both motors and valves + flutes!

And what happened to 10 year emission warranties? I have just under
10 years and only 64k miles, but she said it's out of warranty.

P2442 OBD-II Trouble Code: Secondary Air Injection System Switching
Valve Stuck Open Bank 2

-
The list of Obama administration disappointments
would take three rolls of toilet paper to record.
--BMF

[Larry Jaques]

Plugs are quick, cheap, and easy. I'm with you. Sand is not something
I want down in my engine, thanks.

[rangerssuck]

Used to see this all the time with Amoco premium in high performance honda engines (mid 1979s).

I seriously wish I had known about the Galena connection back then. I would have used the fouled plugs to make radios.

Now I'm imagining an episode of Gilligan's Island where the Professor makes a crystal radio out of a lead-glazed spark plug and a coconut...

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

First thing to do is check EVERY rubber hose under the hood and in the
fuel/evap system for cracks or swelling or looseness at joints. Pay
particular attention to hoses connected to solenoid valves. In a lot
of cases the valves and hoses are only available as expensive
assemblies from the manufacturer, but it is generally a simple job to
replace the hoses with off-the-shelf hoses/tubing - sometimes fuel
line, sometimes tubing designed for air-brake systems etc., and
sometimes normal vacuum tube.

Also check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75q5PSBMX7U
Take a good look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwCN839zMl8
Go after Toyota on the warranty - it IS an extrended emission warranty
repair. ZTQ. see
https://www.toyoheadquarters.com/threads/2007-2010-toyota-tundra-and-sequoia-air-pump-warranty-extension-ztq.109/
Also see: http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_Campaigns/ZTQ.pdf and
http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_WarrantyBulletins/ztq.pdf

[Jim Wilkins]

"rangerssuck" <range...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ec33975-b96b-42c5...@googlegroups.com...

I worked with Detroit engineers and knew the underlying cause but had
no way to measure the quality of the spark in a cylinder under a
driving load, so I just replaced the plugs if the engine didn't feel
right.

The little 12V spark plug blaster I bought made them prettier but
didn't help the problem for very long. I kept some in the vehicle as
temporary spares I could give away to the needy, along with the second
headlight or brake bulb when one burned out.
-jsw

[Larry Jaques]

Got it, thanks. Will do.

>Also check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75q5PSBMX7U
>Take a good look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwCN839zMl8

That's the one which scared me.

>Go after Toyota on the warranty - it IS an extrended emission warranty
>repair. ZTQ. see
>https://www.toyoheadquarters.com/threads/2007-2010-toyota-tundra-and-sequoia-air-pump-warranty-extension-ztq.109/

There's this bigass ad blocker screen in my way. I hate enabling
spam, but...

>Also see: http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_Campaigns/ZTQ.pdf and

Eureka! My VIN is in there, so it appears that I'm covered. I see
that the price for the repair can be upwards of $4,000.00, so I'm very
happy. Thanks for the help.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:59:35 -0700, Larry Jaques

De Nada!!