Darned VFD blew up today!

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Dang! Right in the middle of a five-hour job, and the VFD on our bed
router upchucked! Darn... $1100 for a new one.

And unfortunately, this stupid router's control is tightly knit into some
proprietary 'uniqueness' of this one brand (Delta)... so I can't just
easily slip in a generic.

I'll fix that, when work slacks, and I re-fit the dumb thing with a decent
control and servos instead of steppers.

Lloyd

[Gunner Asch]

www.drivesdirect.com


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Bob La Londe]

"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u9qrmbltuusbp8hfc...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:37:44 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
> <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Dang! Right in the middle of a five-hour job, and the VFD on our bed
>>router upchucked! Darn... $1100 for a new one.
>>
>>And unfortunately, this stupid router's control is tightly knit into some
>>proprietary 'uniqueness' of this one brand (Delta)... so I can't just
>>easily slip in a generic.
>>
>>I'll fix that, when work slacks, and I re-fit the dumb thing with a decent
>>control and servos instead of steppers.
>>
>>Lloyd
>
> www.drivesdirect.com
>

Hard drives?

No more like this: http://www.driveswarehouse.com/

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:u9qrmbltuusbp8hfc...@4ax.com:

> www.drivesdirect.com

Really, Gunner? I DID write VFD, not "hard drive"!

Lloyd

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley in
news:XnsA6324836E5B70ll...@216.168.4.170:

> I DID write VFD

BTW... Bob. Drives Warehouse was the same price (within $40) for a generic
7.5KW unit of the Delta drive at retail... so I think the only reason the
ShopSabre folks used it was so they could 'rig' the unit around some of the
proprietary features of the Delta.

LLoyd

[Gunner Asch]

As always, I'm more about quantity than quality. <shrug>

Gunner (posting from my new mobile office)

"Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@lightspeed.net> fired this volley in
news:ec1tmbhe6a49qgf4v...@4ax.com:

> As always, I'm more about quantity than quality. <shrug>
>
> Gunner (posting from my new mobile office)

Don't pose as Gunner. We had you 'made' weeks ago. He made a mistake.

So did you.

[Gunner Asch]

I don't make mistakes which helps my invinsibilti. Ive been treated for injuries as a result of
rodeo, motorcycles, knives, explosive devices, assault. aircraft crashes and motor vehicle crashes.
And nobdy made me. I'm self made except for the half million I split with my sister and the free
medical care and the free ride tax wise. <shrug>

Gunner (posting from my new mobile office)

"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for
'entrepreneur'."

[Joe Gwinn]

In article <XnsA631B35526432ll...@216.168.4.170>, Lloyd

I wouldn't assume defeat without looking. The interfaces of VFDs are
pretty similar. And they may be using the 0-10 Volt interface with
polarity, or the like, to command motor speed, as part of the position
loop.

Joe Gwinn

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@lightspeed.net> fired this volley in

news:3j4tmbdls9v380kq0...@4ax.com:

> my invinsibilti

Right... Even our _real_ Gunner can spell better than that, and he doesn't
claim to be a 'speller'.

Give it up, creep.

L

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> fired this volley in
news:250620161042383981%joeg...@comcast.net:

> I wouldn't assume defeat without looking. The interfaces of VFDs are
> pretty similar. And they may be using the 0-10 Volt interface with
> polarity, or the like, to command motor speed, as part of the position
> loop.
>
> Joe Gwinn

Joe, the VFD turns out to be no more expensive (at retail) than the more
'generic' ones, and ALSO HAS the more generic interface lines... it's
just that the control for this stupid ShopSabre unit uses the proprietary
methods. I can use this same VFD in a more 'compatible' way when I re-
fit the system.

The ShopSabre folks want $600 MORE for the same VFD! They're crooks.

Besides that, there are all sorts of unprotected ways and linear
bearings, exposed screws without any defense against particulates
contamination -- just all SORTS of _fundamental_design_defects_ which CAN
be cured with careful attention.

Heck, they even mounted the VFD RIGHT IN the chips stream! There's 40
sq. ft. of area under the table, and they put the thing right where chips
fall into it on every job (except, I installed a sheet metal shield over
it to prevent that. When the new one gets here Tuesday, I'm mounting it
on a stand under the table!

So... after "the season" (fireworks, remember?), I'm going to rip this
thing down to bones and re-do the whole affair... probably with Mach3
(just because it's so _available_ and well-used... so a lot of assistance
out there for tuning and tweaks). Ehh... maybe I'll go with LinuxCNC,
but I haven't yet studied the issues enough to be sure.

Lloyd

[Gunner Asch]

Gack!! Sorry about that! I was doing something else and my head was
not properly engaged.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in

news:1grtmbta2uepslhqh...@4ax.com:

> Gack!! Sorry about that! I was doing something else and my head was
> not properly engaged.

That's OK... your "alter-ego" replied for you earlier. (noted!)

Lloyd

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Geez, just say you called an electrical contractor please? ...did you?

[Gunner Asch]

Did he? I killfiled myself yesterday, so never see him anymore. I had
to, just to keep Larry happy.

Gunner

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

bruce2...@gmail.com fired this volley in news:7909203d-fbc7-4be7-a7ab-
69247c...@googlegroups.com:

> Geez, just say you called an electrical contractor please? ...did you?

Who? ME? I have just a _little_ experience with this stuff! And wiring.
And computer technology. It was how I made my living until I 'retired'
(yeah, right!).

Lloyd

[Jim Wilkins]

<bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7909203d-fbc7-4be7...@googlegroups.com...

> Geez, just say you called an electrical contractor please? ...did
> you?

Several of us here including Lloyd know how to to design
electromechanical equipment as well as build and repair it.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Lloyd E.Sponenburgh wrote:
>
> Who? ME?

No, King kong.

> I have just a _little_ experience with this
> stuff

So what? Everybody says that. You had a question that an actual electrical contractor or supplier could address, so you should actually ask an electrical contractor or suppier.

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

bruce2...@gmail.com fired this volley in

news:f96f4341-9292-42f2...@googlegroups.com:

> So what? Everybody says that. You had a question that an actual
> electrical contractor or supplier could address, so you should
> actually ask an electrical contractor or suppier.

Umm... generally, "Electrical contractors" don't do this sort of repair,
and if they do ANY installation at all, it's to attach house power to the
VFD.

I'm an Electronics Technician and Electronics Design Engineer (retired)
by trade. One does not trouble-shoot circuitry of this complexity using
an "electrical contractor".

"Everybody" may say they have experience at something. I did it - or
later managed it - for a living for 35 years; from age 17, when I was a
senior QC lab technician for Florida Transitron, prototyping and testing
small toriodal transformers for the military. I was a licensed Ham Radio
operator at 15 (and in case you don't know... back then, you had to know
some electronics to get a ticket!)

Then, I switched to the fireworks industry (Both 'techy' stuff, see?
Similar management issues, even if not the same technology) and managed a
major US stage and theme park fireworks manufacturer for a decade.

You, on the other hand, don't _sound_ as if you've ever wired a light
switch!

Folks... do NOT trust this guy changing the batteries in your penlight!
He might have to call an electrical contractor!

Lloyd

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:14:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>bruce2...@gmail.com fired this volley in
>news:f96f4341-9292-42f2...@googlegroups.com:
>
>> So what? Everybody says that. You had a question that an actual
>> electrical contractor or supplier could address, so you should
>> actually ask an electrical contractor or suppier.
>
>Umm... generally, "Electrical contractors" don't do this sort of repair,
>and if they do ANY installation at all, it's to attach house power to the
>VFD.

True indeed.

>
>I'm an Electronics Technician and Electronics Design Engineer (retired)
>by trade. One does not trouble-shoot circuitry of this complexity using
>an "electrical contractor".
>

I get phone calls from electrical contractors asking how to set this
kind of thing up, with some regularity.

>"Everybody" may say they have experience at something. I did it - or
>later managed it - for a living for 35 years; from age 17, when I was a
>senior QC lab technician for Florida Transitron, prototyping and testing
>small toriodal transformers for the military. I was a licensed Ham Radio
>operator at 15 (and in case you don't know... back then, you had to know
>some electronics to get a ticket!)
>
>Then, I switched to the fireworks industry (Both 'techy' stuff, see?
>Similar management issues, even if not the same technology) and managed a
>major US stage and theme park fireworks manufacturer for a decade.
>
>You, on the other hand, don't _sound_ as if you've ever wired a light
>switch!
>
>Folks... do NOT trust this guy changing the batteries in your penlight!
>He might have to call an electrical contractor!
>
>Lloyd

Nailed it!

[Martin Eastburn]

Try to understand why it blew - is it under strain due to dry shafts ?
Wrong lube or something causing more back pressure ... Might be
important to check first - less you buy another in due time.

Martin

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:34:11 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:10:13 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
>>news:1grtmbta2uepslhqh...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Gack!! Sorry about that! I was doing something else and my head was
>>> not properly engaged.
>>
>>That's OK... your "alter-ego" replied for you earlier. (noted!)
>>
>>Lloyd
>
>Did he? I killfiled myself yesterday, so never see him anymore. I had
>to, just to keep Larry happy.

And you get the clap for that, my friend.

<clap, clap, clap>

--
To use fear as the friend it is, we must retrain and reprogram ourselves...
We must persistently and convincingly tell ourselves that the fear is
here--with its gift of energy and heightened awareness--so we can do our
best and learn the most in the new situation.
Peter McWilliams, Life 101

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:59:31 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch <gunne...@lightspeed.net> fired this volley in
>news:3j4tmbdls9v380kq0...@4ax.com:
>
>> my invinsibilti
>
>Right... Even our _real_ Gunner can spell better than that,

No I cant.

[Gunner Asch]

You forgot to mention me. <VBG> I do all of that plus engineering and Ive got hummm...3-4 Associates
Degrees...but I could go for a Bachlers..(sp?) But first I need to scrounge enough cash to get Hotel
Econoline out of the shp. <shrug>

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:17:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:34:11 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:10:13 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
>>>news:1grtmbta2uepslhqh...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> Gack!! Sorry about that! I was doing something else and my head was
>>>> not properly engaged.
>>>
>>>That's OK... your "alter-ego" replied for you earlier. (noted!)
>>>
>>>Lloyd
>>
>>Did he? I killfiled myself yesterday, so never see him anymore. I had
>>to, just to keep Larry happy.
>
>And you get the clap for that, my friend.
>
><clap, clap, clap>

Does that mean I should "Feel the Bern"?

Snicker

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> fired this volley in
news:I3Hbz.36047$%07.3...@fx38.iad:

> Try to understand why it blew - is it under strain due to dry shafts ?
> Wrong lube or something causing more back pressure ... Might be
> important to check first - less you buy another in due time.
>

It's 12 years old, used 8 hours a day, daily for 8years of that, and thrice
weekly for the last 4. "Dry Shafts"? "Back pressure"? "Wrong Lube"? This
is a VFD. A 10HP spindle driver.

It blew up upon application of power, not while cutting.

LLoyd

[Jim Wilkins]

<bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f96f4341-9292-42f2...@googlegroups.com...

I've learned about code requirements from contractors but never met
one who could answer the most basic electrical engineering questions.
They just become vague and defensive and I back off and try to find
something they do understand, like the rules for grid tie inverter
service disconnects or portable generator neutral-ground bonding. The
codes have changed since I worked as an industrial electrician in the
1970's.
--jsw

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:36:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
<gunne...@lightspeed.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:59:31 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@lightspeed.net> fired this volley in
>>news:3j4tmbdls9v380kq0...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> my invinsibilti
>>
>>Right... Even our _real_ Gunner can spell better than that,
>
>No I cant.

<giggle> At least you ACK it.

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 01:41:51 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:17:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:34:11 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:10:13 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
>>>>news:1grtmbta2uepslhqh...@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> Gack!! Sorry about that! I was doing something else and my head was
>>>>> not properly engaged.
>>>>
>>>>That's OK... your "alter-ego" replied for you earlier. (noted!)
>>>>
>>>>Lloyd
>>>
>>>Did he? I killfiled myself yesterday, so never see him anymore. I had
>>>to, just to keep Larry happy.
>>
>>And you get the clap for that, my friend.
>>
>><clap, clap, clap>
>
>
>Does that mean I should "Feel the Bern"?
>
>Snicker

No. Pump the Trump.

[Donald J. Trump]

Yes! You guys will be very amazed at how much your lives will improve once I'm in charge. Neither of
you will have to go to work. You can stay home and watch my beautiful family on TV and imagine you
are me. And post all you want! You will be so happy, believe me.

D.T.

"My IQ is one of the highest — and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure; it's
not your fault."

[Jim Wilkins]

"Donald J. Trump" <d...@windbag.com> wrote in message
news:fmpvmb15j4ulcvu6i...@4ax.com...

>
> Yes! You guys will be very amazed at how much your lives will
> improve once I'm in charge. Neither of
> you will have to go to work. You can stay home and watch my
> beautiful family on TV and imagine you
> are me. And post all you want! You will be so happy, believe me.
>
> D.T.
>

> "My IQ is one of the highest - and you all know it! Please don't

> feel so stupid or insecure; it's
> not your fault."

Keep this up, you need much more practice.

[mog...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 7:47:38 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f96f4341-9292-42f2...@googlegroups.com...
> > Lloyd E.Sponenburgh wrote:
> >>
> >> Who? ME?
> >
> > No, King kong.
> >
> >> I have just a _little_ experience with this
> >> stuff
> >
> > So what? Everybody says that. You had a question that an actual
> > electrical contractor or supplier could address, so you should
> > actually ask an electrical contractor or suppier.
>
> I've learned about code requirements from contractors but never met
> one who could answer the most basic electrical engineering questions.

Working in an office with prints is safe and no one is likely to get shocked. I once heard someone say they didn't think they'd ever seen or even heard of someone with a Science, Technology, Engineering or Math (STEM) college degree of any sort working in a hands-on or non-office environment. But a lab?

[mog...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 2:40:47 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:33:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ><bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:7909203d-fbc7-4be7...@googlegroups.com...
> >> Geez, just say you called an electrical contractor please? ...did
> >> you?
> >
> >Several of us here including Lloyd know how to to design
> >electromechanical equipment as well as build and repair it.
>
> You forgot to mention me. <VBG> I do all of that plus engineering and Ive got hummm...3-4 Associates
> Degrees...but I could go for a Bachlers..(sp?)

Along with earning a high school diploma many school districts will help you get a two year trade school degree at the same time (like in plumbing, HVAC or electrical).

[Donald J. Trump]

I already have decades of practice getting losers to worship me. Now I am the leader of their party
and about to put my brand on the White House. Vote for me and I'll kick all the scroungers off the
dole and use the money saved to build solid gold statues of David Hannum to guard the entrances to
all my mansions.

D.T.

“All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be
expected.”

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Donald J. Trump <d...@windbag.com> fired this volley in
news:s3uvmbtma2cr219fv...@4ax.com:

> Now I am the leader of their party

Heh! Yep you ARE the lead 'loser'... but you aren't Trump. You're either
Banqueer in disguise, or a creep just as bad!

Time for another 'block'.

Lloyd

[Jim Wilkins]

<mog...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5bfa14b2-2b26-451e...@googlegroups.com...

=========

They never met an industrial chemist, who has to learn to
do -everything- themselves. In order to mix the Urethane casting resin
I had to go out and manhandle the drums it came in. The chemical shed
was too small for a forklift, I think it once housed a wagon or
carriage
http://www.handtrucksrus.com/crashdetail.aspx?id=863&cx=drum

Then as an Army communications network repairman I learned to maintain
the Diesel truck I drove.
http://www.primeportal.net/trucks/gert_burkert-opitz/m109_shop_van/
Although I was a sergeant the Signal Corps didn't have spare enlisted
men to pass such tasks down to, and I wanted to learn self-reliance. I
was driving it around rural Germany where garages don't have
English-size wrenches.

I had to fly out to the factories to install and test the equipment I
built for GM. Before making me a Project Manager they had me
apprentice my way up through all the assembly, fabrication and
drafting slots.

The next few R&D jobs were indoors at a lab bench, then at Mitre I had
to go out to where the antennas were, once in weather that grounded
airliners. I kept Air Force mechanics' coveralls in the truck in case
I had to crawl under it (or as insurance against having to). They kept
me comfortably warm taking spectrum analyzer readings at the antenna
while the other tech huddled in the van writing them down, with the
heater roaring full blast. I kept thinking of the intended users, in
similar or worse weather on a mountain in Afghanistan.

I think at least half the people I've met while climbing mountains and
running rivers were engineers.

--jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"Donald J. Trump" <d...@windbag.com> wrote in message

news:s3uvmbtma2cr219fv...@4ax.com...

Mr Trump, do you remember the conversation we had in the VFW hall
about presidential qualifications?

-jsw

[Donald J. Trump]

I make up the rules as I go. All I care about is that you'll vote for me and I know you will. You
deserve me. Corey told me to spend my spare time sweet-talking attendees at monster truck rallies. I
gave him the boot because I knew that RCM was populated with my kind of people. The few exceptions
are apparently scheduled to be hung from lamp posts which means they don't count.

D.T.

"I love the poorly educated"

[Martin Eastburn]

So the 10hp motor might not turn over as fast anymore and caused
excessive current to flow, blowing up the VFD. Dirty bearings maybe
just got enough. The load was applied when it was designed to be
off and turned on once the motor was up to speed...

Was the motor shorted ? is there a shorted winding and just sat there
in a stall current to long ?

Think of the SYSTEM LLoyd - not just the source. You might buy 2 or 3
VFD's yet.

Now if the VFD is turned on with the motor disconnected, there might be
another issue. And so forth.


Martin

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:14:50 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>So the 10hp motor might not turn over as fast anymore and caused
>excessive current to flow, blowing up the VFD. Dirty bearings maybe
>just got enough. The load was applied when it was designed to be
>off and turned on once the motor was up to speed...
>
>Was the motor shorted ? is there a shorted winding and just sat there
>in a stall current to long ?
>
>Think of the SYSTEM LLoyd - not just the source. You might buy 2 or 3
>VFD's yet.
>
>Now if the VFD is turned on with the motor disconnected, there might be
>another issue. And so forth.
>
>
>Martin

VFD design has some strengths and some weaknesses. Many/most VFDs
have a couple of BIG capacitors in them...and they blow up and take
out the main power transistors. In fact..I have a decent sized box
with about 8 blown VFDs that came out of machines that were running
perfectly and then one day..they didnt work anymore. Generally inrush
current takes out the caps and then the trannys.

Mitsubishi was the worst in my experience..one could get about 10 yrs
out of them..then Poof.

My mill had one attached to it for a decade (PC3) ..and one day..it
quit. Caps went bad. Ive not gotten around to replacing them as of
yet.

ALL of the CNC machines that I fix use a VFD to run speed control,
along with a gearbox. When a cnc quites spinning the spindle..its
almost Always the VFD gone bad.

Gunner

>
>On 6/26/2016 6:40 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
>> Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> fired this volley in
>> news:I3Hbz.36047$%07.3...@fx38.iad:
>>
>>> Try to understand why it blew - is it under strain due to dry shafts ?
>>> Wrong lube or something causing more back pressure ... Might be
>>> important to check first - less you buy another in due time.
>>>
>>
>> It's 12 years old, used 8 hours a day, daily for 8years of that, and thrice
>> weekly for the last 4. "Dry Shafts"? "Back pressure"? "Wrong Lube"? This
>> is a VFD. A 10HP spindle driver.
>>
>> It blew up upon application of power, not while cutting.
>>
>> LLoyd
>>

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> fired this volley in

news:SS0cz.23942$nC4....@fx12.iad:

> Was the motor shorted ? is there a shorted winding and just sat there
> in a stall current to long ?
>
> Think of the SYSTEM LLoyd - not just the source. You might buy 2 or 3
> VFD's yet.
>
> Now if the VFD is turned on with the motor disconnected, there might be
> another issue. And so forth.

All those things were checked, or known as dangers. The motor's not
shorted, not binding, and was not cutting _anything_ when the VFD failed;
wasn't even running.

The VFD was OFF prior to the failure. This failure occurred on power-up
of the system. The spindle motor was never commanded ON before the
internal fault code of the VFD was thrown. No smoke came out, either.

Oh... to the other respondent who suggested testing the VFD's filter caps
"at voltage", instead of a meter voltages -- yeah... did yesterday, just
to confirm. A) none of them look 'leaky' with a good DVM, and they all
were charged on power-up, so the rectifiers are working, too.

I've already got almost 1-1/2 hours trouble-shooting into this. If I
waste any more time on it (except perhaps 'hobby time' down the road),
I'm busting my own billing rate. It doesn't make sense. Seven hours of
f'in with it would cost me more in lost billing than a brand new VFD
costs!

New one gets here day-after-tomorrow.

L

Please...

[Martin Eastburn]

I suppose the winding in the various motors take a blown Transistor
or Triac without blowing up. That is good. Likely the reason why the
VFD blows - cheaper to replace and ok in anger impulse.

Martin

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:56:27 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:

>I suppose the winding in the various motors take a blown Transistor
>or Triac without blowing up. That is good. Likely the reason why the
>VFD blows - cheaper to replace and ok in anger impulse.
>
>Martin

Of all the vfds I've replaced...only one could be found that was
caused by a shorted motor. Most VFDs (NOT ALL) have internal
protections that shut the VFD down if the motor fails.

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:45g6nbpfi44tu7t8f...@4ax.com:

>
> Of all the vfds I've replaced...only one could be found that was
> caused by a shorted motor. Most VFDs (NOT ALL) have internal
> protections that shut the VFD down if the motor fails.
>

Besides... no body reads details... they just see "blown up" and presume
their own conditions.

1) the spindle ran fine on the last job, and was stopped properly before
turning off the machine.
2) on the FIRST power-up of the VFD - BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO START THE
SPINDLE - the VFD threw the fault indicated earlier. No amount of
resetting, either by keypad or application/removal of power will clear
the fault.

Oh... and Gunner...
3) ShopSabre says they'll be switching over to Mitsubishi VFDs on all new
machines. If you need a new VFD, you can purchase an entire controller
upgrade, and they'll sell you a Mits to go along with it.

For me that means FOR SURE that I'm ripping the guts out of this toy and
putting in a decent control (and servos, I think).

There are lots of other things to do to it, also... like screw covers (of
which it has NONE). Like providing more hold-down inlets under the table
(only 4 in a 5x10 deck). Like making the hold-down grid board user-
replaceable. (It doesn't even come with a routing file to cut a new one,
and they sealed over all the screw pockets, so it requires destroying the
old sheet to get it off!)

It does have a nice, rigid table structure, though! <G> (The gantry, not
so much!)

Oh, well, I wanted to add a 5th axis to this thing, anyway.


LLoyd

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:27:09 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
>news:45g6nbpfi44tu7t8f...@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> Of all the vfds I've replaced...only one could be found that was
>> caused by a shorted motor. Most VFDs (NOT ALL) have internal
>> protections that shut the VFD down if the motor fails.
>>
>
>Besides... no body reads details... they just see "blown up" and presume
>their own conditions.
>
>1) the spindle ran fine on the last job, and was stopped properly before
>turning off the machine.
>2) on the FIRST power-up of the VFD - BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO START THE
>SPINDLE - the VFD threw the fault indicated earlier. No amount of
>resetting, either by keypad or application/removal of power will clear
>the fault.

I was down at my buddy Glenn's yesterday and he had recently had to
replace his VFD on his drill, a large, geared VSR he uses for drilling
and tapping directly.

The 1989 Hitachi VFD was working fine one day and released lots of
magic smoke and fire the next, vaporizing several traces on the
circuit board as it went. It also blew the labels and plastic bits off
the power transistors.

>Oh... and Gunner...
>3) ShopSabre says they'll be switching over to Mitsubishi VFDs on all new
>machines. If you need a new VFD, you can purchase an entire controller
>upgrade, and they'll sell you a Mits to go along with it.
>
>For me that means FOR SURE that I'm ripping the guts out of this toy and
>putting in a decent control (and servos, I think).
>
>There are lots of other things to do to it, also... like screw covers (of
>which it has NONE). Like providing more hold-down inlets under the table
>(only 4 in a 5x10 deck). Like making the hold-down grid board user-
>replaceable. (It doesn't even come with a routing file to cut a new one,
>and they sealed over all the screw pockets, so it requires destroying the
>old sheet to get it off!)

Don't you love mfgrs who do things like that?

>It does have a nice, rigid table structure, though! <G> (The gantry, not
>so much!)
>
>Oh, well, I wanted to add a 5th axis to this thing, anyway.

<g>

[Gunner Asch]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:27:09 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
>news:45g6nbpfi44tu7t8f...@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> Of all the vfds I've replaced...only one could be found that was
>> caused by a shorted motor. Most VFDs (NOT ALL) have internal
>> protections that shut the VFD down if the motor fails.
>>
>
>Besides... no body reads details... they just see "blown up" and presume
>their own conditions.
>
>1) the spindle ran fine on the last job, and was stopped properly before
>turning off the machine.
>2) on the FIRST power-up of the VFD - BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO START THE
>SPINDLE - the VFD threw the fault indicated earlier. No amount of
>resetting, either by keypad or application/removal of power will clear
>the fault.
>
>Oh... and Gunner...
>3) ShopSabre says they'll be switching over to Mitsubishi VFDs on all new
>machines. If you need a new VFD, you can purchase an entire controller
>upgrade, and they'll sell you a Mits to go along with it.

Not terribly sure Mits is the way to go..but they may have improved
them a Bunch. They probably got a really good deal on em.
Manufacturing/industrial economy is tanking...shrug.

>
>For me that means FOR SURE that I'm ripping the guts out of this toy and
>putting in a decent control (and servos, I think).
>
>There are lots of other things to do to it, also... like screw covers (of
>which it has NONE). Like providing more hold-down inlets under the table
>(only 4 in a 5x10 deck). Like making the hold-down grid board user-
>replaceable. (It doesn't even come with a routing file to cut a new one,
>and they sealed over all the screw pockets, so it requires destroying the
>old sheet to get it off!)
>
>It does have a nice, rigid table structure, though! <G> (The gantry, not
>so much!)
>
>Oh, well, I wanted to add a 5th axis to this thing, anyway.
>
>
>LLoyd

Sounds like a FUN project!

Anybody want a CNC mill do do that with...let me know TODAY..Ive got a
Sharnoa CNC mill, 40 taper with a Tiger control on it..supposed to
work but needs the keyboard..which may be a bitch to find..so doing a
retrofit would be the nads. NICE machine!

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/PTEngineering#6193747228241195714

Want it for free? I can probably hold it for that long. Located in
Santa Ana California. But speak before Friday!!


Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:41:41 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>>
>>1) the spindle ran fine on the last job, and was stopped properly before
>>turning off the machine.
>>2) on the FIRST power-up of the VFD - BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO START THE
>>SPINDLE - the VFD threw the fault indicated earlier. No amount of
>>resetting, either by keypad or application/removal of power will clear
>>the fault.
>
>I was down at my buddy Glenn's yesterday and he had recently had to
>replace his VFD on his drill, a large, geared VSR he uses for drilling
>and tapping directly.
>
>The 1989 Hitachi VFD was working fine one day and released lots of
>magic smoke and fire the next, vaporizing several traces on the
>circuit board as it went. It also blew the labels and plastic bits off
>the power transistors.

Ive got a spare Hitachi, NOS in the box. but IRRC..its only 3hp

Gunner

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in

news:6nf8nbpsc8i0idfke...@4ax.com:

> Ive got a spare Hitachi, NOS in the box. but IRRC..its only 3hp

Good deal, but not adequate -- 5HP spindle!

(and I run it to the limit now and then...)

Lloyd

[Gunner Asch]

Soon as it cools off a bit, Ill go out and dig it out and see exactly
what it is. I had it on a 3/4 hp drill press but it sang so loudly
that it drove me nuts and replaced it with an older 1hp drive from
another manufacture.. I dont remember what it is, but Ill find out.

Gunner
Currently 113F outside

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in

news:42n8nbth4uu2ib3qf...@4ax.com:

>
> Soon as it cools off a bit, Ill go out and dig it out and see exactly
> what it is. I had it on a 3/4 hp drill press but it sang so loudly
> that it drove me nuts and replaced it with an older 1hp drive from
> another manufacture.. I dont remember what it is, but Ill find out.

I'd be interested, because I'm going to re-fit this stupid machine. It
wouldn't work with the current control - being tied to some proprietary
Delta features - but would be fine (if it's big enough) for the Mach-3
installation I am planning to do.

Lloyd

[Gunner Asch]

Sorry Lloyd..its 3hp.

Ive been a huge fan of the PC3 vfds..they have been badged many
different ways...Yaskawa IRRC was the developer..and they are
really..really good drives.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YASKAWA-5-HP-AC-VFD-DRIVE-GPD-315-V7-CIMR-V7AM43P7-460-VOLT-3-FOR-PARTS-KEYPAD-/351771321721

Its a slightly updated PC3..so look at the photo and remember what
they look like. They often came badged as a Telemechanic(sp?) as well
as Magnatech and EMS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGNETEK-GPD-515C-5-HP-500-600-VOLT-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-MODEL-GPD515C-C006-/291581988070

If it says GDP on the face anywhere..its likely to be the same
drive..different badging

[Martin Eastburn]

That naturally assumes the "VFD shutdown circuit" didn't fail and thus
kill itself off.

Once anti-snubbing circuits open from overuse then the magic comes out
of the box in the form of smoke.

Marti