My experience with them has been abysmal, in the sense that most of
them are very unreliable. They can show up 1.5 hours later, or not at
all. They do not even think that it is a big deal.
Is that my own isolated experience, or has anyone else seen the same?
i
--
"Ignoramus20811" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.20811.invalid> wrote in message
news:m--dnXOlyNRBLw7T...@giganews.com...
Very common, thats why they are self unemployed. The worst one i had
showed up drunk.
Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/
if you hire the illegal ones, they are much more reliable - they are
actually here to work. Of course hiring them is illegal in some states.
Yes...happens all the time here.
What I have done is seek out those who can keep appointments and work
with them to teach them my expectations. It takes awhile but in time
you will have some people who will perform to your requirements.
And I pay well....and I feed the help well too.
And they remember that.
Which means they want to work for me again.
TMT
It's that way everywhere, especially in the sub-$10/hr arena. My
neighbor has been through half a dozen guys in the past year, and she
only wants help for 3-4 hours per week in the summer. They either show
up late or on a different day than scheduled, and they never, ever
call to let her know there's a problem.
I, on the other hand, always show up on time or call if I can't, but I
get a bit more than that for my work. Some jobs take longer than I
estimate or planned for, tools break and have to be replaced
immediately, power goes out, clients change their minds, etc.
--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson
That problem is rampant in the US, and it's not limited to handymen.
In the process of building our house, I called one guy twice, to ask for a
bid on drywall. He never returned the calls. My wife and I hung and
fiinished the drywall ourselves.
I have now waited two weeks for a simple quote on some glass. Got one from
a different outfit that wanted $2,000 (labor alone) to install two mirrors
and six sliding glass doors in a display cabinet. Took that guy over a
month to show up, and I had to make several calls and stop by his store to
get him here.
These are some of the reasons that I do almost everything myself. Those
that show up want to make a retirement on each job, or they simply don't
show up at all. To add insult to injury, their workmanship tends to be
shoddy---as if they have no pride in what they do, with making money their
sole objective.
It is no wonder illegals are here-----they work, they are reliable, and
they'll do jobs that Americans won't. We've made it easy for them, and
we'd be screwed without them.
Sad, really.
This country is badly broken.
Harold
Larry, I am sure that you treat your clients fairly.
I mean, I would be OK if they just called and said that they are not
coming today.
i
>
>"Ignoramus20811" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.20811.invalid> wrote in message
>news:m--dnXOlyNRBLw7T...@giganews.com...
>>I had a few occasions, when I had to hire some laborers or handymen
>> (read, people who do simple one time jobs).
>>
>> My experience with them has been abysmal, in the sense that most of
>> them are very unreliable. They can show up 1.5 hours later, or not at
>> all. They do not even think that it is a big deal.
>>
>> Is that my own isolated experience, or has anyone else seen the same?
>>
>> i
>
>That problem is rampant in the US, and it's not limited to handymen.
>
>In the process of building our house, I called one guy twice, to ask for a
>bid on drywall. He never returned the calls. My wife and I hung and
>fiinished the drywall ourselves.
>
>I have now waited two weeks for a simple quote on some glass.
Yabbut, you live in West BF, too.
In the Boston area, we are covered by "Checkbook" and Angie's List, both
of which are independent contractor reviewing operations. Not everyone
who is good in the area is listed, but if you find someone with rave
reviews, you can pretty much count on them. It takes a hugh amount of
the guesswork out of the process. I won't hire anyone for even a small
one time job without a personal referal from someone I trust, or a good
review on one of those two (preferably both). Fortunately, the Boston
market is big enough that you can usually find several outfits to get
bids from on major jobs.
We are about to have our bathroom re-done, and all the contractors we've
talked to have been very good. Some of them even have discounts for
members of Angie's List. That shows that they know they will get
reviewed, and they are confident enough in their work to want those
customers.
Doug White
I think it is a universal theme, we have the same problem in Canada.
Maybe you could hire a neighbourhood high school kid? If you get a
good one, you can train them to do more important jobs too. Nice thing
is that you don't have to make a steady job for them, but you know who
you are getting each time you call on them. Probably have to try out a
few before you get a good one though........
Pete
--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Karl
So, what are the problems? Unreliable people? Do not work hard enough?
They all used to work for the cable company, phone company, etc, and they
are actually responding in a much more timely manner than they did when they
worked for those BORG like corporations.
Try the entrance to the parking lot for Home Depot etc etc.
Gunner
"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)
Other countries, too.
What you describe is almost exactly my experience. I attributed it to
living on the Island but it seems from what you say that the problem
is universal.
I still find it hard to understand. The economy is supposed to be bad.
There is a huge number of jobless people. How do these "handymen" make
a living?
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Haven't you heard of government work AKA welfare?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
They quote lower prices than those of us with contractor's licenses,
insurance, and bonds. And here's what they give you for your lower
price: http://goo.gl/34nSt Pic 23, they show up at your house. Pic
14, they fix your window after the earthquake. See pics 27 and 65 for
new remodeling.
<g>
--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer
Cash under the counter..and not paying taxes.
Ever wonder how Gummer stays in smokes and Dew....and his exwife in
Radio Shack batteries?
TMT
Handymen are another matter. Just a laborer with slightly more skills.
Takes a dominant hand from the start, and no assuming, hyphenation not
needed. Micromanagement of handymen and laborers is about the only group it
is productive for.
Steve
This is pretty wise, although it is hard to establish domonance over
some who does not show up.
i
I have found micromanaging to never be the solution.
Setting expectations is.
I make it clear from the start...no alcohol, no drugs, on time and if
you make a commitment you damn well better keep it.
Any deviation from that and you are history.
Many times what appears to be inept work is the result of management
not doing their job.
When you hire anyone and give them no guidance of what you expect, one
should not be surprised to get less than what you expected in return.
In machining, one expects to work from a blueprint that has undergone
hours of thought, dimensions, tolerances, material selection,
etc...and you get what you expect.
In many other disciplines, the employee is expected to read the mind
of management and to pull off a miracle.
TMT
True...have you considered paying more to get a better class of
employee?
A suggestion...when you stop at your next fast food place, ask the
people who help you if they would like to make some more money by
doing your jobs.
The fast food place has already screened their (your future) employees
for you.
TMT
>have you considered paying more to get a better class of
employee?
Get serious! The amount of pay *workers* receive (I use that term loosely)
often bears nothing in common with their level of skills and abilities.
That's what's wrong with the US these days. Many expect a king's ransom
just for showing up. No pride in workmanship and pitifully low skill levels.
The sad thing is, it's been that way for so long now that they don't even
understand they don't have what it takes. Seems like being the worst at
skill and the best at grabbing the money and running is worn as a badge of
honor these days.
You want things done properly? Do them yourself.
Harold
I am serious.
One has to pay to get quality.
I am always amused when I see people who consider others do not
deserve to be well paid but expect to be well paid themselves.
Harold...did you ever turn down a salary raise/higher wage or return
some of your compensation because you were overpaid?
TMT
So you consider that pay should not reflect one's ability?
>One has to pay to get quality.
You make it sound like paying more assures quality. *It doesn't.*
>I am always amused when I see people who consider others do not
deserve to be well paid but expect to be well paid themselves.
If you're aiming that comment at me, I'm highly offended. I made it a
policy, all my life, to earn my money. It is for that reason that I would
have nothing to do with unions, and I never did.
>Harold...did you ever turn down a salary raise/higher wage or return
some of your compensation because you were overpaid?
I was employed by industry for a grand total of ten years, right to the day.
I worked as a journeyman machinist up until the day I started my commercial
machine shop (August, 1967). The best money I was paid was $3.50/hour. I
considered myself to be being paid a fair wage, for which I gave an honest
day's work. I also produced work that was NOT rejected by QC. I earned my
humble pay.
TMT
>So you consider that pay should not reflect one's ability?
Quite the contrary-----I feel it SHOULD reflect one's ability---the trouble
is that rarely do you encounter anyone that has *ability*. What they have
is an *opinion* that they have ability. The bar has been lowered so
inferior workmanship and being a slacker is fashionable. We see it almost
daily. You appear to be a champion of paying just because a guy shows up.
I'm not. If they can't walk the walk, they're not worth paying.
I live in a state that is managed by the democrats. In their wisdom, they
assure that people with no skills can make what they'd like to call decent
money. As a result, morons that can't pour piss out of a boot with the
instructions written on the heel, will, effective January, be making
$9.03/hr. I think that's a little high for someone with no skills. Yeah,
I do! Two bucks for a coke? That's what you get when people are paid
unearned money. It has to come from somewhere, doesn't it?
I'm not the person you want to get involved with when it comes to values.
I have a record (one of which I'm very proud) whereby overpay was not
accepted. It's something you can't begin to understand without knowing me
as a person, and to have been familiar with my shop when I was actively
machining.
I have no tolerance for those that demand high pay, yet can be replaced in
their work by anyone off the street. That includes those that worked for
Detroit, where the most they had invested in their job was a gray lunchbox.
Our very own Gunner can recount details of what's wrong with your
philosophy---he worked for the automakers in Detroit, where workers were
paid a handsome income---and earned virtually none of it.
Money does not guarantee skill and quality any more than standing in a
garage makes you a car. Lose that notion.
Ever ask a guy if he was good at what he does? Ever have one tell you he
wasn't?
Me, neither, yet I've hired more than my share of *workers* (loosely used
term) that wanted their pay, but couldn't do the work, and to the man, each
thought of himself as being qualified.
Harold
Not trying to pick a fight Harold...but we all have seen what going
for the lowest price gets you.
FWIW..using Gummer as your standard is not setting the bar very high.
So what comes first...quality or compensation?
Are CEOs worth the megabucks they get when the company is losing
billions?
Is the guy who works McD making the burger you eat worth minimum wage?
TMT
The point is, paying more does not guarantee better quality.
I'll use myself as an example.
When I operated my commercial shop (primarily defense and aero-space work),
one of my customers was Litton Guidance & Control. I had work in-house,
from them, for virtually all of my 16 years of operation. In that time, I
had five rejections. My rate was always below that of other shops. I
didn't sell my quality at a higher price---it was my pride in doing a job
properly that was important. I had (and still have) something that many
don't even understand----the understanding that what I did is what
represents me as a person-----that stealing unearned money wasn't something
for which I hoped to be remembered.
>FWIW..using Gummer as your standard is not setting the bar very high.
That's not for me, nor you, to judge. Gunner is what he is. I consider
him a friend (we have never met) and prefer to not take this to that level.
His opinion, as far as I'm concerned, is just as valid as those of anyone
else on this forum. All of us have the option of agreeing with them, or
not.
He worked amongst the people I mentioned, and provided some good reports on
what he witnessed. That's good enough for me.
>So what comes first...quality or compensation?
It's a matter of personal pride, isn't it? I've already discussed what I
have experienced. Pay does not guarantee quality. One can not place an
order on these things. If a worker has pride in what he does, he'll provide
quality as a matter of course. If he doesn't have, he'll grab the money
and run, and the faster he can run with the least effort is what he's going
to do. I've seen it time and again. In fact, it's the very reason that I
hung and finished my own drywall. First question out of the mouth of these
guys is how good do I have to do the work? All hope to texture, so they
can gloss over the entire job, and hide their lack of talent with texture.
Thanks, but no thanks.
[quote]Are CEOs worth the megabucks they get when the company is losing
billions?
[/quote]
Good example. You and I both know they're not worth what they're being
paid------but that doesn't stop them from being paid too much, even when
they don't have a clue about what they should be doing. I question why
you chose this example, as all you're doing is proving my point.
>Is the guy who works McD making the burger you eat worth minimum wage?
Let me say this in a better way. If the guy flipping burgers wants to
make money, he should have thought about that when he was younger, and
pursued an avenue that would have given him higher value. One does not
hold a gun to the head of the consumer, demanding higher pay because they
hope to achieve a living wage-----one improves their worth so they can earn
the pay they hope to receive. Otherwise, prices rise beyond reason, for
there is no free lunch. The money has to come from a source, so if an
entity is forced to pay unearned money, they have two alternatives. One is
to fold the operation because it is no longer profitable----the other is to
raise prices. Most businesses choose the second option. That's why you
are now paying upwards of $1.50 for a large coke, when I can remember coke
prices were five cents for a small, ten for a medium and 15 for a large.
Your philosophy is part of the reason the dollar is now worth, what, four
cents? Unearned money ultimately results in the loss of buying power.
Harold