Diet Soda BS

[You Already Know]

Im tired of my tax money being wasted on junk "science" like this lie
that claims diet soda increases risk of stroke and dementia.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/health/diet-sodas-stroke-dementia-study/
Because if it was true, then why havent I had strokes and shown signs
of dementia? Hmmm?

Gunner, who scarfs Diet Mt Dew every day.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Martin E]

I fully agree that was voodoo science used. That was medical not science.

Science starts out and see's what happens. They started out to prove a
point. Very interesting. How many died? How many got cancer? How
many smoked ? ........ How many lived next to a Nuke power plant ? How
many lived near a pipeline ? How many drank Booze ? how many smoked pot
and how many ...other drugs.

We pay for junk studies all of the time.

Remember the radiation scare in south America ? The Protective shield
we have is a pumpkin of sorts - it is large bodied in the center and
dives in at the pole. It is a magnetic shield. In the south there was
a Super Nova near the small 'cloud' - star mass. The Nova dumped a lot
of high energy particles to bend their path into the polar regions.
Cosmic rays - the non polarized particles zip through us every day. We
collect them deep in salt and lead mines. They are so small and so fast
that they zip around atoms and make us like Swiss Cheese but they are so
tiny they don't show or cause but mutations from time to time.

Martin E - Degrees in Physics, Mathematics, studies in AI and 20+ as a
practicing EE.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Martin E" <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:TzAKA.14637$KO2....@fx36.iad...

>
> Remember the radiation scare in south America ? The Protective
> shield we have is a pumpkin of sorts - it is large bodied in the
> center and dives in at the pole. It is a magnetic shield. In the
> south there was
> a Super Nova near the small 'cloud' - star mass. The Nova dumped a
> lot of high energy particles to bend their path into the polar
> regions. Cosmic rays - the non polarized particles zip through us
> every day. We collect them deep in salt and lead mines. They are
> so small and so fast
> that they zip around atoms and make us like Swiss Cheese but they
> are so tiny they don't show or cause but mutations from time to
> time.
>
> Martin E - Degrees in Physics, Mathematics, studies in AI and 20+ as
> a practicing EE.

Neutrinos are the non polarized particles that pass through matter
without affecting it. The atmosphere stops most Cosmic Rays which are
fully ionized atomic nuclei.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray
"Cosmic rays kept the level of carbon-14 in the atmosphere roughly
constant (70 tons) for at least the past 100,000 years, until the
beginning of above-ground nuclear weapons testing in the early 1950s.
This is an important fact used in radiocarbon dating used in
archaeology."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh-My-God_particle

-jsw

[Frank]

Legitimate study by respectable group:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/64681

Article points out that it is statistical and other factors may be more
of the difference.

Everyone needs to understand this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

"The rooster crows immediately before sunrise; therefore the rooster
causes the sun to rise."

I did not even look at the fake news pronouncements on this study as
they constantly violate the above.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 12:00:53 AM UTC-4, Martin E wrote:
> On 4/21/2017 3:36 PM, You Already Know wrote:
> >
> > Im tired of my tax money being wasted on junk "science" like this lie
> > that claims diet soda increases risk of stroke and dementia.
> > http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/health/diet-sodas-stroke-dementia-study/
> > Because if it was true, then why havent I had strokes and shown signs
> > of dementia? Hmmm?
> >
> > Gunner, who scarfs Diet Mt Dew every day.
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >
> I fully agree that was voodoo science used. That was medical not science.
>
> Science starts out and see's what happens. They started out to prove a
> point.

How do you know this? Did you read the study? I did, and you're full of baloney.

> Very interesting. How many died? How many got cancer? How
> many smoked ? ........ How many lived next to a Nuke power plant ? How
> many lived near a pipeline ? How many drank Booze ? how many smoked pot
> and how many ...other drugs.

Instead of pulling answers out of your ass, Martin, you'd do better to read the study first. Then see if you have a disagreement with the methodology, the statistics, or the conclusions:

"After adjustments for age, sex, education (for analysis of dementia), caloric intake, diet quality, physical activity, and smoking, higher recent and higher cumulative intake of artificially sweetened soft drinks were associated with an increased risk of ischemic stroke, all-cause dementia, and Alzheimer’s disease dementia. When comparing daily cumulative intake to 0 per week (reference), the hazard ratios were 2.96 (95% confidence interval, 1.26–6.97) for ischemic stroke and 2.89 (95% confidence interval, 1.18–7.07) for Alzheimer’s disease. Sugar-sweetened beverages were not associated with stroke or dementia.

>
> We pay for junk studies all of the time.

You tell 'em...

--
Ed Huntress

[edhun...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 8:44:17 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
> On 4/21/2017 4:36 PM, You Already Know wrote:
> >
> > Im tired of my tax money being wasted on junk "science" like this lie
> > that claims diet soda increases risk of stroke and dementia.
> > http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/health/diet-sodas-stroke-dementia-study/
> > Because if it was true, then why havent I had strokes and shown signs
> > of dementia? Hmmm?
> >
> > Gunner, who scarfs Diet Mt Dew every day.
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >
> Legitimate study by respectable group:
>
> https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/64681

That's not a study. It's a review article, commenting on a study, and which says, "This kind of research is critical for examining and uncovering public health relationships that may eventually lead to actionable recommendations," added Fargo."

The Framingham studies are prospective cohort studies. Medical research of this type RARELY delves into causation. It's a statistical association, which is how most medical research starts out. Years of follow-up studies try to get at causation, which oftentimes is elusive in medical research.

Working with such studies is exactly what I did when I was a medical editor. As a rough guess, I'd say that at least 75% of medical research begins this way -- finding statistical correlations that raise questions about possible paths of causation.

But causation is, as I said, often elusive. It's frustrating, but that's the way medical research usually goes. Paths of causation often are very complex and obscure.

But if we waited until those paths are determined before doing anything, we wouldn't have any modern medicine. Most of it is just statistical "associations." The AMA's editorial style book dictates how the words must be used in medicine. <g>

>
> Article points out that it is statistical and other factors may be more
> of the difference.

This is almost always true in these prospective cohort studies.

>
> Everyone needs to understand this:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
>
> "The rooster crows immediately before sunrise; therefore the rooster
> causes the sun to rise."
>
> I did not even look at the fake news pronouncements on this study as
> they constantly violate the above.

That's the fault of the news reporting, not of the Framingham study, which is very clear about what they know and what they don't.

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 08:44:13 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

>On 4/21/2017 4:36 PM, You Already Know wrote:
>>
>> Im tired of my tax money being wasted on junk "science" like this lie
>> that claims diet soda increases risk of stroke and dementia.
>> http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/health/diet-sodas-stroke-dementia-study/
>> Because if it was true, then why havent I had strokes and shown signs
>> of dementia? Hmmm?
>>
>> Gunner, who scarfs Diet Mt Dew every day.
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>Legitimate study by respectable group:
>
>https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/64681
>
>Article points out that it is statistical and other factors may be more
>of the difference.

Indeed. Very well said, Frank! People say Im a very sciency
guy...shrug. Maybe thats because they know I blew through all the
tests on my first chemistry kit when I was 3, and built my first cold
fusion reactor when I was still in grade 7. Now to be fair..the
reaction only lasted a few hours, and it was conducted here
http://s2.dmcdn.net/EOu_.jpg which is owned by a buddy. And the
measurements were taken by his partner, who works at ITER.....shrug. I
will celebrate the 130th anniversary of that event before I die, and
Diet Mountain Dew is the elixir that will make it possible.

>Everyone needs to understand this:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
>
>"The rooster crows immediately before sunrise; therefore the rooster
>causes the sun to rise."

Ok, so maybe its the smokes that account for my amazingly long life.
VBG

>I did not even look at the fake news pronouncements on this study as
>they constantly violate the above.

Thats a good rule. Another is to stay out of ERs. All theyre good
for is giving you a disease so they can send you a big bill. Thank
Crom we scientists are too smart to fall for that scam. I would have
added scientist to my list of accomplishments at Linkedin but I hit
their phony limit at 50 skills. No way am I taking aerospace off the
list to make room. shrug

Gunner

[Frank]

Is this the real you or the fake you or the real you imitating the fake
you? Inquiring minds need to know.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

It really amazes me that some of you guys can't tell. I think that's most of what one needs to know about how Gunner is perceived. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner Asch]

Somebody said "there are no stupid question." What a buffoon. Of
course its the real me. I killed everybody else. shrug

Sorry if I sound a little cranky today. It was a long night in the
Sheraton Caravan. Smart ass cop woke me up with his tactical
flashlight at 9am. Claimed he can charge me with vagrancy for
sleeping in a Walmart parking lot.... shrug I told him lots of $75
an hour techs do it and that he had bigger fish to fry. What about
all the $50 an hour techs sleeping in fridge boxes in the alley? He
only stopped being pissy when I offered some free shooting lessons.
VBG I invited him out to the homestead which has a 200 yard (100
meters) range. Hes a big guy and he says he like Taco Bell which we
have here in Taft. With luck... some luck... it will be a day when I
can afford a few extra toilet flushes. shrug

[Frank]

No wonder the real you dropped out. Maybe he did again.

[Gunner Asch]

No worries, Im still here.... grin

I dont let the ridicule get to me. Its nothing compared to my day to
day grind. It is a bit of a crisis of conscience... on the one hand I
did say many times Id torture and kill these guys or have it done for
me... shrug. On the other hand fuck them if they refuse to accept
reality. The original idea was to hang them on lamp posts just
because theyre leftists or sympathizers. But it turns out theyre mean
bastards who think theyre entitled to fight back. Before theyre
bulldozed into mass graves theyll be 10 or so feet up in the air..with
sharp stakes up their asses and as time goes by...it pushes deeper and
deeper into their body cavities..any organs that arent pushed
aside..are punctured as they slowly..very slowly slide down the
stakes. Think of the stink that 20,000 writhing, twisting, squirming,
wailing and screaming Leftwingers would make. Glorious! Absolutely
Glorious!

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:36:28 -0700, You Already Know <y...@AF.com>
wrote:

You forgot to change your nym before sending. Seems you are getting
a bit light in the thinking department.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 08:00:56 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Path: not-for-mail
>From: Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.survival
>Subject: Re: Diet Soda BS
>Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 08:00:56 -0700
>Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Im gone for 4 days and Johnny still posts. Shows me that he really
doesnt have much of a life in the real world.

ROFLMAO!!!

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

Hell Frank..simply look at the headers of any post that looks "off".

I never post from eternal-september.

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:54:47 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>Path: not-for-mail
>From: Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.survival
>Subject: Re: Diet Soda BS

>Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:54:47 -0700

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>

[Martin E]

Ed -
The study was for xxxxx. It wasn't a study on the effects or workings
of this additive.
When you start out a research that defines the goal it tends on proving
that and nothing else. We in Physics are taught to roll the dice and
see what happens. They load the dice.

Martin

[Howard Beel]

"Martin E" <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in message

news:4OVKA.39484$oi7....@fx18.iad...

>> (95% confidence interval, 1.26-6.97) for ischemic stroke and 2.89 (95%
>> confidence interval, 1.18-7.07) for Alzheimer's disease. Sugar-sweetened

>> beverages were not associated with stroke or dementia.
>>
>>>
>>> We pay for junk studies all of the time.
>>
>> You tell 'em...
>>
> Ed -
> The study was for xxxxx. It wasn't a study on the effects or workings of
> this additive.
> When you start out a research that defines the goal it tends on proving
> that and nothing else. We in Physics are taught to roll the dice and see
> what happens. They load the dice.
>
> Martin

The study shows the need for a soda tax.

Best Regards
Tom.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[edhun...@gmail.com]

I can't interpret your first sentence. It was a study that used Framingham Study data to find some associations between known risk factors and incidences of stroke and dementia.

This is a straightforward and common type of statistical medical study. The Framingham Study data is the world's largest database of risk factors and their correlations with disease. I referred to it extensively when writing about metabolic syndrome. So does practically everyone else who works in the field or who reports on it.

Did you read it? Did you read the abstract? Or did you just read the CNN news article?

Here is the study's abstract, with links to the full study:

http://stroke.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/04/20/STROKEAHA.116.016027

Nobody "loaded the dice." They had plenty of anecdotal data to suggest the risk-factor correlation. Then they applied straightforward statistical methods to see what the data tell us.

Don't guess about this. If you haven't read at least the abstract, and if you don't know how these associations are researched and measured in medicine, find out before jumping to conclusions.

--
Ed Huntress

[Good Soldier Schweik]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:54:47 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>

Did Gunner lose a bit when he measured his lot? I know they call him
"Short horn", but short measuring stick too? Most places 200 yards is
182.8 meters :-)

Ah well, a day late and a dollar (meter) short describes old gunner to
a tee.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:43:16 -0700, "Howard Beel" <H...@network.com>
wrote:

>> The study was for xxxxx. It wasn't a study on the effects or workings of
>> this additive.
>> When you start out a research that defines the goal it tends on proving
>> that and nothing else. We in Physics are taught to roll the dice and see
>> what happens. They load the dice.
>>
>> Martin
>
>The study shows the need for a soda tax.
>
>Best Regards
>Tom.

Soda Tax? Bullshit. If the fuckers would quit spending so much
money on bullshit..there would be no need for many taxes.

So how did that downsizing the drinks turn out? Seems there "was a
need for smaller drinks because they made people fat"

Frankly..it was none of their fucking business. And the "studies" were
arrived at simply by stating what they wanted to do..then making up
the studies results to match.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:36:48 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:43:16 -0700, "Howard Beel" <H...@network.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> The study was for xxxxx. It wasn't a study on the effects or workings of
>>> this additive.
>>> When you start out a research that defines the goal it tends on proving
>>> that and nothing else. We in Physics are taught to roll the dice and see
>>> what happens. They load the dice.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>
>>The study shows the need for a soda tax.
>>
>>Best Regards
>>Tom.
>
>Soda Tax? Bullshit. If the fuckers would quit spending so much
>money on bullshit..there would be no need for many taxes.

The taxes on your cigs in CA are $2.87 per pack now, as of Apr 1.

I keep saying we could pare off 50-75% of Big Gov't and never notice a
difference, if it weren't for the large suck on our wallets no longer
being felt. Y'know, just cut the non-Constitutional stuff/people.

>So how did that downsizing the drinks turn out? Seems there "was a
>need for smaller drinks because they made people fat"

New York, who gave us the drink tax, also gave us Sanctuary status,
crazy mayors/governors (Bloomberg, deBlasio, and Cuomo, with Hillary
next?) crazy CONgresscritters (Schumer, Rangel, Clinton), crazy gun
laws, etc.

>Frankly..it was none of their fucking business. And the "studies" were
>arrived at simply by stating what they wanted to do..then making up
>the studies results to match.

As Martin said, "They load the dice.", bigtime.


Oh, when I breezed through CA last month, I noticed that they had
finally finished the upper bridge over the top end of Lake Shasta. I
had seen that construction for, I think, six years in a row. It's
only 300 yards wide, I think. That took forEVER to complete.


--
Believe nothing.
No matter where you read it,
Or who said it,
Even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense.
-- Buddha

[Gunner Asch]

My shooting range is 4 of my 17 lots connected together. The 4 arent
in a straight line of course so I have ricochet plates carefully
oriented to keep the shots on my acreage,

> Most places 200 yards is
>182.8 meters :-)

So I am guilty of rounding... shrug.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding Rounding is very sciency which
is my trademark.

>Ah well, a day late and a dollar (meter) short describes old gunner to
>a tee.

If the Trump economy holds then next week should be good and with
luck...a little luck, I will finally be able to put plates on hotel
econoline. "Next week" being subject to rounding of course. shrug

[Ignoramus8879]

On 2017-04-23, edhun...@gmail.com <edhun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 12:09:38 AM UTC-4, Martin E wrote:
>> On 4/22/2017 9:12 AM, edhun...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 12:00:53 AM UTC-4, Martin E wrote:
>> >> On 4/21/2017 3:36 PM, You Already Know wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Im tired of my tax money being wasted on junk "science" like this lie
>> >>> that claims diet soda increases risk of stroke and dementia.
>> >>> http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/health/diet-sodas-stroke-dementia-study/
>> >>> Because if it was true, then why havent I had strokes and shown signs
>> >>> of dementia? Hmmm?
>> >>>
>> >>> Gunner, who scarfs Diet Mt Dew every day.
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >>>
>> >> I fully agree that was voodoo science used. That was medical not science.
>> >>
>> >> Science starts out and see's what happens. They started out to prove a
>> >> point.
>> >
>> > How do you know this? Did you read the study? I did, and you're full of baloney.
>> >
>> >> Very interesting. How many died? How many got cancer? How
>> >> many smoked ? ........ How many lived next to a Nuke power plant ? How
>> >> many lived near a pipeline ? How many drank Booze ? how many smoked pot
>> >> and how many ...other drugs.
>> >
>> > Instead of pulling answers out of your ass, Martin, you'd do better to read the study first. Then see if you have a disagreement with the methodology, the statistics, or the conclusions:
>> >

>> > "After adjustments for age, sex, education (for analysis of dementia), caloric intake, diet quality, physical activity, and smoking, higher recent and higher cumulative intake of artificially sweetened soft drinks were associated with an increased risk of ischemic stroke, all-cause dementia, and Alzheimer???s disease dementia. When comparing daily cumulative intake to 0 per week (reference), the hazard ratios were 2.96 (95% confidence interval, 1.26???6.97) for ischemic stroke and 2.89 (95% confidence interval, 1.18???7.07) for Alzheimer???s disease. Sugar-sweetened beverages were not associated with stroke or dementia.

That abstract speaks for itself. Thanks for posting a link to it.

[Vic Dulude]

I doubt his name is John. You imagined that.

He posts because he *know* you can't resist reacting.

> Shows me that he really
> doesnt have much of a life in the real world.

I'm convinced he has quite a satisfying life in the real world,
including a sewer connection or a functioning septic system.

[Vic Dulude]

On 4/22/2017 9:01 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:54:47 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

Ha ha ha ha ha!

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Gunner is imagining it's John Carroll, but I'm sure it's not. John and I were talking in email a few days ago. He hasn't been on RCM in many moons, and the writing that Gunner attributes to him is not John's style at all.

He's doing very well. Staying away from here probably is good for one's health and well-being.

--
Ed Huntress

[Vic Dulude]

Every one else is sure it's not, too.

I'd love to correspond with Whoyakidding. He comes across here as a
genuinely interesting person, and for certain a skilled writer. He
seems pretty cautious, which I get, so I imagine it will just be a few
words here, as well as watching him dance Wieber around by the ring that
Wieber had put through his own nose.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

I just gave John a call. It's not him; he hasn't been here for years, but he may drop in to see the fireworks.

>
> I'd love to correspond with Whoyakidding. He comes across here as a
> genuinely interesting person, and for certain a skilled writer. He
> seems pretty cautious, which I get, so I imagine it will just be a few
> words here, as well as watching him dance Wieber around by the ring that
> Wieber had put through his own nose.

He is very interesting, and an exceptional writer -- especially at spoofing Gunner, but in general, as well. You should see his house and the way it's sited! Maybe he'll reply to you.

Did you ever see his Cliff Notes about Gunner's posts? It's hilarious.

--
Ed Huntress

[tesla sTinker]

most of the shit Monsanto produces of does this to you.....

It gives you cancer because, the crops are maintained by large machines,
and not taken care of worth a shit, very sprayed of they are with high
toxic chemicals. The cola nut, even that,foods, anything is sprayed
with these chemicals. And yes, you have
the rotten government to thank for that ignore it shit to the
corporataions,,, for they do absolute nothing
to stop the problem of it.... But promote it, so that the health care
thing, can make them all rich.... ARE you really that dumb as you
proclaim of to be here. I sure hope you see reality of the pagan
government. They should of stopped Monsanto a very long time ago indeed.
Like at least 50 years ago....

[Gunner Asch]

Oh...Fast Eddy posts the occasional bit of trash as well. But he
doesnt have the basic sadism down as well as John-boi. Its easy to
pick out his posts from John-bois

[Vic Dulude]

Many times. It's not only hilarious but it perfectly captures the real
Wieber mental defective. When he didn't post it for a long time, I even
reposted it under one of my alternate pseudonyms.

[Vic Dulude]

Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 08:11:57 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Path: not-for-mail
>From: Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.survival
>Subject: Re: Diet Soda BS

>Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 08:11:57 -0700

>Organization: A noiseless patient Spider

>Lines: 112
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Snicker!

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:33:02 -0700, Vic Dulude
<another...@terrell.con> wrote:

>>> Thats a good rule. Another is to stay out of ERs. All theyre good
>>> for is giving you a disease so they can send you a big bill. Thank
>>> Crom we scientists are too smart to fall for that scam. I would have
>>> added scientist to my list of accomplishments at Linkedin but I hit
>>> their phony limit at 50 skills. No way am I taking aerospace off the
>>> list to make room. shrug
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>
>> Im gone for 4 days and Johnny still posts.
>
>I doubt his name is John. You imagined that.

(Grin) Prove me wrong.

>
>He posts because he *know* you can't resist reacting.

He has limited expectations doesnt he?

(VBG)

[shit gummer]

On 4/23/2017 5:19 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 08:11:57 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>

Ha ha ha! HA HA HA HA HA! The dreaded headers again! Too funny.

Another Wieber concession of defeat. When the shit tub of Wieber lame
sophomoric insults has been emptied, he just babbles "(VBG)" or
"snicker" or "snerk", acknowledging that he's done and has thrown in the
towel.

[shit gummer]

On 4/23/2017 5:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:33:02 -0700, Vic Dulude
> <another...@terrell.con> wrote:
>
>>>> Thats a good rule. Another is to stay out of ERs. All theyre good
>>>> for is giving you a disease so they can send you a big bill. Thank
>>>> Crom we scientists are too smart to fall for that scam. I would have
>>>> added scientist to my list of accomplishments at Linkedin but I hit
>>>> their phony limit at 50 skills. No way am I taking aerospace off the
>>>> list to make room. shrug
>>>>
>>>> Gunner
>>>
>>> Im gone for 4 days and Johnny still posts.
>>
>> I doubt his name is John. You imagined that.
>
> (Grin) Prove me wrong.

You've been lectured on this many times. *You* have to prove you're
right. Everyone knows you don't have a clue.

>>
>> He posts because he *know* you can't resist reacting.
>
> He has limited expectations doesnt he?

Not based on his spot-on predictions of your reactions.

>
> (VBG)

gummer admits defeat yet again.

[Martin E]

>> Ed -
>> The study was for xxxxx. It wasn't a study on the effects or workings
>> of this additive.
>> When you start out a research that defines the goal it tends on proving
>> that and nothing else. We in Physics are taught to roll the dice and
>> see what happens. They load the dice.
>>
>> Martin
>
> I can't interpret your first sentence. It was a study that used Framingham Study data to find some associations between known risk factors and incidences of stroke and dementia.
>
> This is a straightforward and common type of statistical medical study. The Framingham Study data is the world's largest database of risk factors and their correlations with disease. I referred to it extensively when writing about metabolic syndrome. So does practically everyone else who works in the field or who reports on it.
>
> Did you read it? Did you read the abstract? Or did you just read the CNN news article?
>
> Here is the study's abstract, with links to the full study:
>
> http://stroke.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/04/20/STROKEAHA.116.016027
>
> Nobody "loaded the dice." They had plenty of anecdotal data to suggest the risk-factor correlation. Then they applied straightforward statistical methods to see what the data tell us.
>
> Don't guess about this. If you haven't read at least the abstract, and if you don't know how these associations are researched and measured in medicine, find out before jumping to conclusions.
>

QUOTE FROM ABSTRACT:
"Background and Purpose—Sugar- and artificially-sweetened beverage
intake have been linked to cardiometabolic risk factors, which increase
the risk of cerebrovascular disease and dementia. We examined whether
sugar- or artificially sweetened beverage consumption was associated
with the prospective risks of incident stroke or dementia in the
community-based Framingham Heart Study Offspring cohort.

Methods—We studied 2888 participants aged >45 years for incident stroke
(mean age 62 [SD, 9] years; 45% men) and 1484 participants aged >60
years for incident dementia (mean age 69 [SD, 6] years; 46% men).
Beverage intake was quantified using a food-frequency questionnaire at
cohort examinations 5 (1991–1995), 6 (1995–1998), and 7 (1998–2001). We
quantified recent consumption at examination 7 and cumulative
consumption by averaging across examinations. Surveillance for incident
events commenced at examination 7 and continued for 10 years. We
observed 97 cases of incident stroke (82 ischemic) and 81 cases of
incident dementia (63 consistent with Alzheimer’s disease)."
>>>
Just as I said. They start out with what they want to prove. They
claim in support of their proposition a positive link to cardio /
cerebro issues and simply log those who drink and in dataloging so many
died this way or that or had strokes (head hits something and stroke...)
Argument and gets stroke. Oh yea drinking 'known bad stuff in our
minds' does this so this is caused by drinking. Poor logic.

Poor data reduction and it hides the facts. Was this a BLIND test - no.
Was there any attempt to determine any other cause and effect or just
effect occurs and cause is assumed.

Martin

[edhun...@gmail.com]

They start out trying to track down and measure KNOWN RISK FACTORS. This is risk analysis -- a very sophisticated branch of statistics. They're trying to measure the relationship between factors for which they already have anecdotal evidence.

It's exactly like observing events, forming a hypothesis, and then testing it -- trying to disprove (or prove) it. But in this case, all they can show from the data is an ASSOCIATION, adjusting for other known risk factors. Given the association, the next step is to study the correlation, looking for a hypothesis involving causation -- maybe. Sometimes they never find causation.

> They
> claim in support of their proposition a positive link to cardio /
> cerebro issues and simply log those who drink and in dataloging so many
> died this way or that or had strokes (head hits something and stroke...)
> Argument and gets stroke.

Nonsense. You either didn't read, or didn't understand, the statistical results that Iggy picked up right away. They corrected for other known risk factors, using the huge database available from the Framingham Studies.

> Oh yea drinking 'known bad stuff in our
> minds' does this so this is caused by drinking. Poor logic.

It's your logic that's poor, and you're the one who is starting off with something you want to prove. But you're doing a lousy job of proving it.

>
> Poor data reduction and it hides the facts.

No it doesn't. This is how much of medical research is done. This is how they found out that smoking shortens lives. It's how they learned that a diet high in saturated fat leads to increased incidence of heart disease.

That's medical research, Martin.

> Was this a BLIND test - no.

Of course not. They weren't "testing." They were analyzing existing data. The data is neutral and it was acquired before anyone thought to run this particular analysis. Thus, there was no need for blind testing. The data acquisition was done with no possibility of research bias.

> Was there any attempt to determine any other cause and effect or just
> effect occurs and cause is assumed.

Read the whole study and you'll see that (a), they corrected for other risk factors, and (b) they didn't attempt to determine the mechanism of action (as medical researchers would put it) or the "cause," as you put it.

To this day, they don't know the mechanism of action for many drugs, including some antibiotics and cancer treatments that have saved thousands of lives. That's medicine. They're looking for results, not necessarily for the patterns of mediation and causation.

--
Ed Huntress
>
> Martin

[Rudy Canoza]

Bullshit. You don't know how to read an abstract.

[Gunner Asch]

Its actually pretty funny watching you shifting nyms around and then
going all creative using my name and fabbing up all sorts of
buffoonery. I sit here with a pup in my lap, cigarette in hand and
drinking a Monster...relaxing and laughing at your efforts.

I know when I post with your headers showing..the other readers see it
as well..and while some may think Im a smuck..others know me better
than that..and are equally amused at watching your antics. You
provide a great floorshow, better than Betty and the Beagles.
Then I get up and go do something, and come back when its time for a
break..busting up at many of your posts. I had Monster come out of my
nose earlier today on one of your whopper filled mega posts. Shit
burns too!!

(VBG)

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:35:24 -0700, shit gummer
<gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:

>On 4/23/2017 5:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:33:02 -0700, Vic Dulude
>> <another...@terrell.con> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Thats a good rule. Another is to stay out of ERs. All theyre good
>>>>> for is giving you a disease so they can send you a big bill. Thank
>>>>> Crom we scientists are too smart to fall for that scam. I would have
>>>>> added scientist to my list of accomplishments at Linkedin but I hit
>>>>> their phony limit at 50 skills. No way am I taking aerospace off the
>>>>> list to make room. shrug
>>>>>
>>>>> Gunner
>>>>
>>>> Im gone for 4 days and Johnny still posts.
>>>
>>> I doubt his name is John. You imagined that.
>>
>> (Grin) Prove me wrong.
>
>You've been lectured on this many times. *You* have to prove you're
>right. Everyone knows you don't have a clue.

(Grin)...the important ones KNOW Im right.

>
>>>
>>> He posts because he *know* you can't resist reacting.
>>
>> He has limited expectations doesnt he?
>
>Not based on his spot-on predictions of your reactions.

(Grin)

>
>>
>> (VBG)
>
>gummer admits defeat yet again.

Cite?

(Grin)

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude

So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.

Btw...how does that shit actually taste?

[Suburban War]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:13:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Its actually pretty funny watching you shifting nyms around and then
>going all creative using my name and fabbing up all sorts of
>buffoonery. I sit here with a pup in my lap, cigarette in hand and
>drinking a Monster...relaxing and laughing at your efforts.

Sounds like a good plan... if the objective is permanent poverty. Not
so good if you're supposed to be job hunting, and need to pass a
Google vetting, right?

>some may think Im a smuck..

The word is schmuck, dipshit, and you'd need a pallet load of JATOs to
rise to that level.

>others know me better
>than that..and are equally amused at watching your antics.

Who are these people, and why are they mute?

[Suburban War]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:14:19 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>(Grin)...the important ones KNOW Im right.

Where are these "important ones," and why can't they speak for
themselves?

[Suburban War]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:21:09 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:33:02 -0700, Vic Dulude
><another...@terrell.con> wrote:
>
>>>> Thats a good rule. Another is to stay out of ERs. All theyre good
>>>> for is giving you a disease so they can send you a big bill. Thank
>>>> Crom we scientists are too smart to fall for that scam. I would have
>>>> added scientist to my list of accomplishments at Linkedin but I hit
>>>> their phony limit at 50 skills. No way am I taking aerospace off the
>>>> list to make room. shrug
>>>>
>>>> Gunner
>>>
>>> Im gone for 4 days and Johnny still posts.
>>
>>I doubt his name is John. You imagined that.
>
>(Grin) Prove me wrong.

There's nothing to prove. "He" will keep posting, and you will keep
woofing. If you know that "he" is John Carroll, then why aren't you
keeping your recent promise?

"Now the moment his ID is discovered...all bets are off.
The fingers between a steel pipe and a 16 oz ball pien would simpy be
an early appatizer, with many hours to go.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.crafts.metalworking/sfa_u3whX7c/16kQ2noLBQAJ

In some otherwise similar situation one might say that you're good at
talking and useless at acting. But you aren't even any good at
talking. Nobody believes you.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude

>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>
>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>
>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?

Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
<slowly shakes head>

--
Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they
are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.
--Ronald Reagan

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>
>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>
>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>
>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
><slowly shakes head>

Fuck you Larry. Its all about appearances. Im trying to find a job
you know. The employers are looking over my online activities and
theyre not going to think very highly of me if Im letting people sully
my reputation. In fact, Im sure... pretty sure... that the reason Im
not getting any interviews is because Im not fighting back hard
enough. Basically, I cant afford not to reply... shrug

[Schuman]

On 4/23/2017 11:01 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> You don't know how to read an abstract.

11 years ago, while posting under this current nym, Rudy Canoza, we had a
discussion about a revised marketing claim concerning grass-fed beef from
USDA. You claimed that you had written to and received a reply from
William T.
Sessions, Associate Deputy Administrator, Livestock and Seed Program. Here
below is the post you wrote using the nym Rudy Canoza containing your
correspondence with William Sessions.

[start- Jon to me]
Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
standard has NOT been adopted. I wrote to William
Sessions, the associate deputy administrator (how's
that for a title) at the Livestock and Seed Program at
USDA that is in charge of writing the standard for the
"meat marketing claims"; his name, title and e-mail
address are at a web page whose URL I gave yesterday,
http://www.fass.org/fasstrack/news_item.asp?news_id=1152

Here's his reply:

From: "Sessions, William" <William....@usda.gov>
To: <jonball@[...]>
Mr. Ball: Thanks for your message. The marketing claim
standards are still under review by USDA. Accordingly, the
standards have not been published in a final form for use. I
hope this information is helpful.
Please let me know if further information is needed.
Thanks,
William T. Sessions
Associate Deputy Administrator
Livestock and Seed Program

-----Original Message-----
From: jonball@[...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:38 AM
To: Sessions, William
Subject: 2003 proposed standards for meat marketing claims

I have read about the proposed standards, and I've seen
many of the public comments sent to USDA. I cannot find
anything to indicate if the standards were adopted.
Were the standards as proposed in 2003 adopted?

Thanks in advance.
Jonathan Ball
Pasadena, CA
___________________________________________________
Jonathan Ball aka Rudy Canoza 08 Sep 2005 http://bit.ly/2cYknsh
[end]

Jonathan Ball. Pasadena, CA. Priceless! That email, posted from Jonathan
Ball,
you, and the return email sent to Jonathan Ball proves beyond all doubt that
you are Jonathan Ball. Of course, you don't live in Pasadena since moving to
5327 Shepard Ave Sacramento, CA 95819-1731

Here's the proof Jonathan D Ball http://bit.ly/1LFy9t8

> and I won't die soon.

Yeah you will. You're an old man who hasn't looked after himself. I wouldn't
go around goading people if I was as small and as puny as you are, liar Jon.
You ought to be very careful.

> You certainly have no means to hasten my death.

Are you really serious, weed? you're just over 5 feet tall and 64 years old.
You'll be 65 on December 2nd. You've got to stop threatening people and
goading them to come after you. You're pathetic.

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>Path: not-for-mail
>From: Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking

>Subject: Re: Diet Soda BS

>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:44 -0700

>Organization: A noiseless patient Spider

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As I said....shrug.

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques

<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>
>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>
>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>
>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
><slowly shakes head>

Im only communicating with (1) troll. No matter what I do, it gets in
my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
and its back under a different name.

Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
it.

[shit gummer]

I'm not using your phony pseudonym, gummer. That's the other guy - the
superior tormentor. I can only wish I were as good as he. I'm second
string here, but that's still more than good enough to tie you in knots
and get you to pile one stupid lie atop another.

> I sit here with a pup in my lap, cigarette in hand and
> drinking a Monster...relaxing and laughing at your efforts.

You're a backyard breeder is what you are, addicted to tobacco and
not-so-slowly dying from it.

> I know when I post with your headers showing..the other readers see it
> as well..and while some may think Im a smuck..others know me better
> than that

No, everyone knows you to be a schmuck, gummer. You shouldn't use words
you don't know how to spell, gummer.

Schmuck - that's spot-on:

"Schmuck", or "shmuck", in American English is a pejorative term
meaning one who is stupid or foolish, or an obnoxious, contemptible
or detestable person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_(pejorative)

The only problem with that definition is it uses the wrong coordinating
conjunction, "or". They all need to be replaced with "and".

[shit gummer]

On 4/23/2017 11:14 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:35:24 -0700, shit gummer
> <gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:
>
>> On 4/23/2017 5:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:33:02 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>> <another...@terrell.con> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Thats a good rule. Another is to stay out of ERs. All theyre good
>>>>>> for is giving you a disease so they can send you a big bill. Thank
>>>>>> Crom we scientists are too smart to fall for that scam. I would have
>>>>>> added scientist to my list of accomplishments at Linkedin but I hit
>>>>>> their phony limit at 50 skills. No way am I taking aerospace off the
>>>>>> list to make room. shrug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gunner
>>>>>
>>>>> Im gone for 4 days and Johnny still posts.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt his name is John. You imagined that.
>>>
>>> (Grin) Prove me wrong.
>>
>> You've been lectured on this many times. *You* have to prove you're
>> right. Everyone knows you don't have a clue.
>
> (Grin)...the important ones KNOW Im right.

Everyone knows you're wrong and clueless.

Your chief tormentor is not John Carroll (nor "Carole" [sic]). You
don't know his identity. I think only Ed Huntress does.

>>
>>>>
>>>> He posts because he *know* you can't resist reacting.
>>>
>>> He has limited expectations doesnt he?
>>
>> Not based on his spot-on predictions of your reactions.
>
> (Grin)

gummer admits defeat again.

>>>
>>> (VBG)
>>
>> gummer admits defeat yet again.
>
> Cite?

I've already explained it. "(VBG)" or "(Grin)" is what you always post
when you have nothing left, which is always, and you have nothing left
because you are completely flummoxed.

>
> (Grin)

gummer admits defeat again.

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>
>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>
>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>
>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>><slowly shakes head>
>
>Im only communicating with (1) troll.

At least 2 by my count, but whatever buddy.

> No matter what I do, it gets in
>my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>and its back under a different name.

Then don't reply to the new ones. They change names to get your goat.
At least goats are quiet I suppose. GD&RVF

>Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>it.

I don't get the heat because I don't reply. I don't understand why you
keep making things worse for yourself. Can you explain how it helps
your life?

--
Believe nothing.
No matter where you read it,
Or who said it,
Even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense.
-- Buddha

[Vic Dulude]

So you don't do *anything* right in life. I think that's a big deal for
you.

> Btw...how does that shit actually taste?

I wouldn't know. Figuratively, gummer, you eat it by the 55 gallon
drum. I wouldn't doubt that in some of your dumpster-diving escapades,
you've eaten some of it literally.

[shit gummer]

*Very* good questions.

[shit gummer]

Two *more* very good questions.

[Vic Dulude]

On 4/24/2017 10:50 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

Ha ha ha ha ha!

That's just another concession of defeat, schmuck loser.

[Vic Dulude]

On 4/24/2017 10:51 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>> Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>
>>> So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>
>>> Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>
>> Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>> <slowly shakes head>
>
> Im only communicating with (1) troll.

Nope. You're not dealing with any trolls, gummer. You're dealing with
two tormentors, one of them world-class at it.

< No matter what I do, it gets in
> my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
> and its back under a different name.

And then, even *knowing* who it is, you get sucked in for another round
of humiliation, rather than finding work.

What a schmuck!

[Mary W. Moffat]

On 4/24/2017 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>> Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>
>>>> So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>
>>>> Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>
>>> Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>> <slowly shakes head>
>>
>> Im only communicating with (1) troll.
>
> At least 2 by my count, but whatever buddy.
>
>> No matter what I do, it gets in
>> my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>> and its back under a different name.
>
> Then don't reply to the new ones. They change names to get your goat.
> At least goats are quiet I suppose. GD&RVF
>
>> Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>> it.
>
> I don't get the heat because I don't reply. I don't understand why you
> keep making things worse for yourself.

Because that's what he does best, of course.

> Can you explain how it helpsyour life?

It doesn't. It wastes his time and keeps him living in squalor and despair.

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:29:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.divirsifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>
>>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>
>>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>><slowly shakes head>
>>
>>Im only communicating with (1) troll.
>
>At least 2 by my count, but whatever buddy.

On of them is Fast Eddy, but he is a piker compared to the Johnny.

>
>> No matter what I do, it gets in
>>my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>>and its back under a different name.
>
>Then don't reply to the new ones. They change names to get your goat.
>At least goats are quiet I suppose. GD&RVF
>
>>Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>>it.
>
>I don't get the heat because I don't reply. I don't understand why you
>keep making things worse for yourself. Can you explain how it helps
>your life?

I take a break from working around the homestead, come in, and jerk
his chain for a few minutes, go grab a sandwich, visit some websites
for data and watch him dance a few more times. Then I go back to
work. Its quite simple. I enjoy playing with him when I have nothing
better to do. I could put a newsreader on my cellphone. But that
would be playing on the job, so I dont bother with it.

Im rather suprised that he is so simple minded, that he cant
understand that I simply DONT CARE about what he posts. Its just
hammering on a helpless object that is fun, at times. I often let
out a little line, make myself look helpless..and then smash him right
in the face when he tries to reel me in. He goes nuts when I use
certain buzzwords and key phrases...which I toss in occasionally to
get him all pumped up.

Frankly..Im not doing it for anyone here, just for my own enjoyment.
Its not like there is a hell of a lot of metalworking discussion going
on. These threads are easy as hell to simply "Ignore", so if any of
the "sensitive" members dont want to read em...Im not going to take
them by the hand and baby em.
Hell..Ive not changed my email addy or Nym in decades..if they dont
want to read anything Im associated with, they can simply killfile me.

I was gone for 4 months without being on here..and he still ranted and
raved in the time I was gone, evidently thinking I was still here. So
ignoring him, while taking away some sadistic enjoyment from my
day...doesnt work very well. But tell you what...just for you, Ill
immediately killfile everyone of his posts when I find em, for
say..from now to the end of May, and lets see if the mental case shuts
up. My money says he continues to rant and rave, just to see his
delusions in print..but...anything for a friend.

Gunner

[Norman Yarvin]

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus8879 wrote:

> On 2017-04-23, edhun...@gmail.com <edhun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here is the study's abstract, with links to the full study:
> >
> > http://stroke.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/04/20/STROKEAHA.116.016027
> >
> > Nobody "loaded the dice." They had plenty of anecdotal data to
> > suggest the risk-factor correlation. Then they applied
> > straightforward statistical methods to see what the data tell us.
> >
> > Don't guess about this. If you haven't read at least the abstract,
> > and if you don't know how these associations are researched and
> > measured in medicine, find out before jumping to conclusions.
> >
>

> That abstract speaks for itself. Thanks for posting a link to it.

It's not that impressive, though. The wide confidence intervals, which come close to including 1.0, mean that the statistical significance is borderline. Add a bit of Bonferroni correction, and it'll disappear. And Bonferroni correction is appropriate here, since they investigated at least two hypotheses (sugar-sweetened and artificially sweetened). Did they use such a correction? Well, searching the article for "Bonferroni" comes up empty, as does "correction", but possibly they used it under another name. It wouldn't be unusual if they omitted it, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonferroni_correction

And I'm sure they explain what they really mean somewhere, but it is rather odd to find any dietary factor significant after adjusting for "diet quality".

My beef with artificially sweetened soft drinks is that they fool the body: when taste buds register sweetness, the body reacts by increasing blood sugar in anticipation of its carbohydrate storage being replenished by the incoming food. When no carbohydrate is really incoming, this leaves the body's storage more drawn-down than it should be. So I wouldn't have a problem with there being a real effect here, even if this study can't pick it out of the statistical noise.

[Buzz Forward]

> ---
> This email has been checked to ensure it contains *nothing* but lies by Computer Wienies © Lieware ®
> https://www.cw.con/lieware

Looks like you have the latest and greatest version, gummer, because
*every* word of yours above is a lie.

[Suburban War]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:16:27 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:29:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.divirsifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>>
>>>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>>
>>>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>>
>>>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>>><slowly shakes head>
>>>
>>>Im only communicating with (1) troll.
>>
>>At least 2 by my count, but whatever buddy.
>
>On of them is Fast Eddy,

No, wrong again.

>but he is a piker compared to the Johnny.

You're referring to John Carroll, the guy you said you'd "handle" the
moment you identified him. But there's no handling, only more talking.

>>> No matter what I do, it gets in
>>>my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>>>and its back under a different name.
>>
>>Then don't reply to the new ones. They change names to get your goat.
>>At least goats are quiet I suppose. GD&RVF
>>
>>>Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>>>it.
>>
>>I don't get the heat because I don't reply. I don't understand why you
>>keep making things worse for yourself. Can you explain how it helps
>>your life?
>
>I take a break from working around the homestead, come in, and jerk
>his chain for a few minutes, go grab a sandwich, visit some websites
>for data and watch him dance a few more times. Then I go back to
>work. Its quite simple. I enjoy playing with him when I have nothing
>better to do.

But you DO have a million better things to do, right? To name one...
grab a shovel and start digging a new leach bed instead of confirming
your stupidity by confessing to dumping scam additives into the
toilet, and imagining it's doing anything.

> I could put a newsreader on my cellphone. But that
>would be playing on the job, so I dont bother with it.

What job? LOL

>Im rather suprised that he is so simple minded, that he cant
>understand that I simply DONT CARE about what he posts.

That's a lot of writing to show how you DON'T care....

And right after you wrote "Tell you what..You take the heat for a

while and see how you handle it."

Obviously you're not "playing." You're responding to "the heat."

> Its just
>hammering on a helpless object that is fun, at times.

Took the words out of my mouth!

> I often let
>out a little line, make myself look helpless.

Oh, you only "look" helpless, eh? LOL

>.and then smash him right
>in the face when he tries to reel me in.

You may fantasize about some face smashing, but all I see are more
lies to cover up the previous ones.

> He goes nuts when I use
>certain buzzwords and key phrases...which I toss in occasionally to
>get him all pumped up.

Which buzzwords and key phrases are those?

> Frankly..Im not doing it for anyone here, just for my own enjoyment.

Your need to repeat that lie says more than you realize.

>But tell you what...just for you, Ill
>immediately killfile everyone of his posts when I find em, for
>say..from now to the end of May,

I'm thinking you don't realize who you're making that promise to,
genius.

[Dick 'Tater]

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-7, Suburban War wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:16:27 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:29:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
> ><lja...@invalid.divirsifycomm.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
> >>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
> >>>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]

No.
It isn't.
Some things improve with age.
It's clear than Mark hasn't.
Sheesh..............

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>
>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>
>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>
>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>><slowly shakes head>
>
>Fuck you Larry. Its all about appearances. Im trying to find a job

Sorry GuMner, not buying.

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>
>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>
>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>
>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>><slowly shakes head>
>
>Im only communicating with (1) troll.

With 7 names, making your daily post count 50. We plonk them but when
you reply to them, we see every post because -you- aren't filtered in
our readers like they are. <sigh>

>No matter what I do, it gets in
>my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>and its back under a different name.

They come back over and over because you reply to them. Ignore them
and they'll fade back under the rock they came from. And complain to
Gmail about the harassment. Every time. (there instead of here,
please)

>Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>it.

BTDT, got the t-shirt, mon. I continue to plonk new names daily.

[Reflektor]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:46:24 -0700, Larry Jaques

<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>
>>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>
>>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>><slowly shakes head>
>>
>>Im only communicating with (1) troll.
>
>With 7 names, making your daily post count 50. We plonk them but when
>you reply to them, we see every post because -you- aren't filtered in
>our readers like they are. <sigh>
>
>
>>No matter what I do, it gets in
>>my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>>and its back under a different name.
>
>They come back over and over because you reply to them. Ignore them
>and they'll fade back under the rock they came from. And complain to
>Gmail

Hahahaha!

> about the harassment. Every time. (there instead of here,
>please)

Here, I'll write the complaint for him:

Dear Gmail,

I have repeatedly threatened to kill thousands of people. Some of them
took offense and now they ridicule me mercilessly. I've been reminding
them for years that I'll kill them any day now, but it isn't working.
Please help.

Sincerely,

Mark R Wieber aka Gunner Asch

PS So that you know I'm a serious guy, here is a pretty good list of
my accomplishments.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.machines.cnc/sqedKaK3LOM/x2tQrXyJPtoJ

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 07:12:11 -0700, edhuntress2 wrote:

> "After adjustments for age, sex, education (for analysis of dementia),
> caloric intake, diet quality, physical activity, and smoking, higher
> recent and higher cumulative intake of artificially sweetened soft
> drinks were associated with an increased risk of ischemic stroke,
> all-cause

They seemingly didn't adjust for BMI, which is known to correlate with
stroke, and it stands to reason that people with higher BMI would drink
more artificial sweeteners.
So, I also didn't like this study, just like our wild-eyed friends up the
thread, but perhaps I can claim slightly more reasonable reasons.

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:37:17 -0700, Larry Jaques

<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>
>>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>
>>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>><slowly shakes head>
>>
>>Fuck you Larry. Its all about appearances. Im trying to find a job
>
>Sorry GuMner, not buying.

ROFLMAO! Finally figuring out who is who....(Grin)

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:46:24 -0700, Larry Jaques

<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:51:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>>Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>
>>>>So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>
>>>Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>><slowly shakes head>
>>
>>Im only communicating with (1) troll.
>
>With 7 names, making your daily post count 50. We plonk them but when
>you reply to them, we see every post because -you- aren't filtered in
>our readers like they are. <sigh>
>
>
>>No matter what I do, it gets in
>>my face. So I play with it. Then put it in the bozo bin, wash my hands
>>and its back under a different name.
>
>They come back over and over because you reply to them. Ignore them
>and they'll fade back under the rock they came from. And complain to
>Gmail about the harassment. Every time. (there instead of here,
>please)

The little asshat was here during the 3 months I wasnt here.

Shrug

>
>
>>Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>>it.
>
>BTDT, got the t-shirt, mon. I continue to plonk new names daily.

Keep up the good work.

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:52:49 -0700, Reflektor <R...@AF.net> wrote:

>>Gmail
>
>Hahahaha!
>
>> about the harassment. Every time. (there instead of here,
>>please)
>
>Here, I'll write the complaint for him:
>
>Dear Gmail,
>
>I have repeatedly threatened to kill thousands of people. Some of them
>took offense and now they ridicule me mercilessly. I've been reminding
>them for years that I'll kill them any day now, but it isn't working.
>Please help.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Mark R Wieber aka Gunner Asch
>
>PS So that you know I'm a serious guy, here is a pretty good list of
>my accomplishments.
>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.machines.cnc/sqedKaK3LOM/x2tQrXyJPtoJ
>
>

See..he has already admitted to being Johnathan Ball..IE Widdle Wuddy
Canoli in a couple other threads. (Grin)

Seems like I managed to smoke him out nicely with the John Carol bit.

(VBG)

[edhun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 9:57:54 PM UTC-4, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 07:12:11 -0700, edhuntress2 wrote:
>
> > "After adjustments for age, sex, education (for analysis of dementia),
> > caloric intake, diet quality, physical activity, and smoking, higher
> > recent and higher cumulative intake of artificially sweetened soft
> > drinks were associated with an increased risk of ischemic stroke,
> > all-cause
>
> They seemingly didn't adjust for BMI, which is known to correlate with
> stroke, and it stands to reason that people with higher BMI would drink
> more artificial sweeteners.

Read the full study. It's in there.

> So, I also didn't like this study, just like our wild-eyed friends up the
> thread, but perhaps I can claim slightly more reasonable reasons.

When I was working in the medical editing field, BMI was losing favor as a measure of potential metabolic problems. It appears that intra-abdominal adiposity, rather than general body-mass index, is the real culprit. IIRC, the same was true with cardiovascular problems.

--
Ed Huntress

[Paul K. Dickman]

<edhun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fb022d-9aa4-4535...@googlegroups.com...
> intra-abdominal adiposity,--


????
What's that, the beer belly index?


Paul K. Dickman

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Ha-HA! That's not far from the mark. Here's a brief explanation from the introduction to one of the study papers that address it. FWIW, when I was writing about the subject, I spent about six months studying what is known about it. It's a real head-scratcher, because there is (or was) little understanding of *why* is relates so much more closely to cardiovascular and metabolic risks than BMI does:

"Preferential fat deposition in the abdomen—between
and within viscera and retroperitoneally—has been
linked with cardiometabolic risk.7 Measuring the waist
girth (or its ratio to the hip circumference) has become
a recommended adjunct to clinical examination, and
much evidence supports a large waist as a disease risk
indicator independent of total adiposity [as the body
mass index (BMI)]." ["Intra-abdominal adiposity, abdominal obesity,
and cardiometabolic risk" -- https://tinyurl.com/kpu6833]

I could give a detailed rundown, but it would put everyone to sleep. d8-)

The point is, that fat that lies *between* organs in the belly area is trouble, much more so than other deposits of fat.

--
Ed Huntress

[Reflektor]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:00:38 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:52:49 -0700, Reflektor <R...@AF.net> wrote:
>
>>>Gmail
>>
>>Hahahaha!
>>
>>> about the harassment. Every time. (there instead of here,
>>>please)
>>
>>Here, I'll write the complaint for him:
>>
>>Dear Gmail,
>>
>>I have repeatedly threatened to kill thousands of people. Some of them
>>took offense and now they ridicule me mercilessly. I've been reminding
>>them for years that I'll kill them any day now, but it isn't working.
>>Please help.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Mark R Wieber aka Gunner Asch
>>
>>PS So that you know I'm a serious guy, here is a pretty good list of
>>my accomplishments.
>>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.machines.cnc/sqedKaK3LOM/x2tQrXyJPtoJ
>>
>>
>See..he has already admitted to being Johnathan Ball..IE Widdle Wuddy
>Canoli in a couple other threads. (Grin)
>
>Seems like I managed to smoke him out nicely with the John Carol bit.

ANOTHER easy address of "mine" that's easy to look up AND close by! So
why are you still sitting there instead of heading out with your
hammer and pipe? Same reason you're not digging a new leach pit:
you're just a lazy old gasbag who richly deserves your derelict
lifestyle and overflowing toilets.

[Gary Chamberlain]

On 4/26/2017 12:57 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:37:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:57:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <Gumne...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:20:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:16:07 -0700, Vic Dulude
>>>>>> Your tormentor is not "John Carole" [sic]
>>>>>
>>>>> So I dont spell the name right. Big deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Btw...how does that shit actually taste?
>>>>
>>>> Still communicating here with every troll who types by, eh?
>>>> <slowly shakes head>
>>>
>>> Fuck you Larry. Its all about appearances. Im trying to find a job
>>
>> Sorry GuMner, not buying.
>
>
> ROFLMAO! Finally figuring out who is who....(Grin)

No, you haven't.

[Gary Chamberlain]

Bullshit. It's Whoyakidding by a different nym, and he has always been
here the entire time. You, of course, have no clue as to his real
identity. It's not John "Carole" [sic] - the real John Carroll showed
up the other day and shredded you.

>>
>>
>>> Tell you what..You take the heat for a while and see how you handle
>>> it.
>>
>> BTDT, got the t-shirt, mon. I continue to plonk new names daily.
>
> Keep up the good work.

Why can't *you* find any work?

[Gary Chamberlain]

On 4/26/2017 1:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:52:49 -0700, Reflektor <R...@AF.net> wrote:
>
>>> Gmail
>>
>> Hahahaha!
>>
>>> about the harassment. Every time. (there instead of here,
>>> please)
>>
>> Here, I'll write the complaint for him:
>>
>> Dear Gmail,
>>
>> I have repeatedly threatened to kill thousands of people. Some of them
>> took offense and now they ridicule me mercilessly. I've been reminding
>> them for years that I'll kill them any day now, but it isn't working.
>> Please help.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Mark R Wieber aka Gunner Asch
>>
>> PS So that you know I'm a serious guy, here is a pretty good list of
>> my accomplishments.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.machines.cnc/sqedKaK3LOM/x2tQrXyJPtoJ
>>
>>
> See..he has already admitted to being Johnathan Ball..IE Widdle Wuddy
> Canoli in a couple other threads. (Grin)

Wrong. That's not the name of either tormentor (and Whoyakidding and I
are not the same person.)

> Seems like I managed to smoke him out nicely with the John Carol bit.

Wrong. That's *also* not the name of anyone.

>
> (VBG)

Wieber concedes defeat again.

[Neon John]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:53:33 -0700 (PDT), Norman Yarvin
<norman...@gmail.com> wrote:


>My beef with artificially sweetened soft drinks is that they fool the body: when taste buds register sweetness, the body reacts by increasing blood sugar in anticipation of its carbohydrate storage being replenished by the incoming food. When no carbohydrate is really incoming, this leaves the body's storage more drawn-down than it should be. So I wouldn't have a problem with there being a real effect here, even if this study can't pick it out of the statistical noise.

Norman, I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic with an A1C of 5.2 so I know
a thing or two about how the sugar control system works. The taste
buds have no effect on insulin production. When I first heard that
rumor, I tested it out by consuming an unholy amount of splenda while
checking my sugar every 15 minutes for several hours. No deviation
from my normal ebb and flow.

The way the system works is that there is a blood sugar sensor built
into our bodies, located in the neck area if I recall correctly. It
releases a hormone that causes the Islet cells (the part of the
pancreas that makes insulin) to make more or less insulin as required.
The pancreas stores a small amount of insulin in normal people and
when the sensor detects a sudden increase in blood sugar, causes that
reservoir to be dumped. Derivative action, as it were. A very
sophisticated closed loop control system.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Yeah, I was going to let that one go, but as a Type I diabetic since 1973, I've never experienced any blood-glucose influence from straight artificial sweeteners --Sweet 'n Low being the odd man out; it contains a fair amount of lactose, and isn't "straight" in that sense.

--
Ed Huntress

[Norman Yarvin]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:09:10 AM UTC-4, Neon John wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:53:33 -0700 (PDT), Norman Yarvin
> <norman...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >My beef with artificially sweetened soft drinks is that
> >they fool the body: when taste buds register sweetness,
> >the body reacts by increasing blood sugar in anticipation
> >of its carbohydrate storage being replenished by the
> >incoming food. When no carbohydrate is really incoming,
> >this leaves the body's storage more drawn-down than it
> >should be.
>

> Norman, I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic with an A1C of 5.2 so I know
> a thing or two about how the sugar control system works. The taste
> buds have no effect on insulin production. When I first heard that
> rumor, I tested it out by consuming an unholy amount of splenda while
> checking my sugar every 15 minutes for several hours. No deviation
> from my normal ebb and flow.

I just did what I should have done before posting that, which is to
go to Pubmed and check out what indeed was just a "rumor" I'd read
a while ago. It looks like they're still arguing over the details
of this, but in general they find the same thing that you did;
to quote one article, "Cephalic phase insulin response has been
observed before swallowing non-sweet nutritive substances and
artificially sweetened energy containing substances in humans.
However, sweet non-caloric stimuli alone have not been sufficient
to generate an expectatory, cephalic phase response in humans."

> The way the system works is that there is a blood sugar sensor built
> into our bodies, located in the neck area if I recall correctly. It
> releases a hormone that causes the Islet cells (the part of the
> pancreas that makes insulin) to make more or less insulin as required.
> The pancreas stores a small amount of insulin in normal people and
> when the sensor detects a sudden increase in blood sugar, causes that
> reservoir to be dumped. Derivative action, as it were. A very
> sophisticated closed loop control system.

Oh, there are a hell of a lot more sensors and feedback loops involved
than just that. At least it's not like the immune system, which is
deliberately obfuscated:

http://yarchive.net/blog/medicine/immune_system_complexity.html