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STI problems
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et...@whidbey.com
Jun 21, 2016, 1:49:40 PM6/21/16
to
I said STI, not STD. I install thousands of Screw Thread Inserts, AKA
Heli-Coils, every year. The last 4000 inserts my customer has
provided are from Re-Coil. These inserts have been really troublesome.
The tangs don't break off easily. Even with being bent 90 degrees they
don't break off and need to be bent back. On top of that the tangs are
too long so that the installation tools that are the screw in type
get caught on the end of the tang instead of in the corner. Then when
the insert is driven into the hole it catches instead, the tool, which
is made of the softest steel I've ever seen, ends up being driven
through the insert and both the insert and tool are ruined. But it
gets worse. I gauge ALL the holes now before and after the STI gets
installed because a bunch of parts were rejected for being tight. All
the tapped holes gauge fine, not a single one has been undersized. But
about 40% of the holes gauge undersize once the STI is in place. This
means driving either driving out the STI and installing another or
running a roll tap through the hole. So I have been running a tap
through. Which is slow. The tap has to be spun at a low RPM or it will
gall on the SS insert. This ruins the tap and drives the insert out. I
also have to use a high pressure type oil on the tap which then needs
to be washed off. All this fooling around has turned a good money
making job into a money losing headache. So we are looking for inserts
that can be trusted. Besides Heli-Coild brand inserts does anybody
here have any experience with STI of another brand? The Re-Coil brand
ones have just gotten so bad. By the way, it doesn't matter if I
install the inserts by hand with the RE-Coil type tool, by hand with
the thread in type tool, by hand with a pre-winder, under power with a
pre winder, or under power without a pre-winder. I have eliminated
everything else and it is the crappy inserts that are the problem.
Eric
Heli-Coils, every year. The last 4000 inserts my customer has
provided are from Re-Coil. These inserts have been really troublesome.
The tangs don't break off easily. Even with being bent 90 degrees they
don't break off and need to be bent back. On top of that the tangs are
too long so that the installation tools that are the screw in type
get caught on the end of the tang instead of in the corner. Then when
the insert is driven into the hole it catches instead, the tool, which
is made of the softest steel I've ever seen, ends up being driven
through the insert and both the insert and tool are ruined. But it
gets worse. I gauge ALL the holes now before and after the STI gets
installed because a bunch of parts were rejected for being tight. All
the tapped holes gauge fine, not a single one has been undersized. But
about 40% of the holes gauge undersize once the STI is in place. This
means driving either driving out the STI and installing another or
running a roll tap through the hole. So I have been running a tap
through. Which is slow. The tap has to be spun at a low RPM or it will
gall on the SS insert. This ruins the tap and drives the insert out. I
also have to use a high pressure type oil on the tap which then needs
to be washed off. All this fooling around has turned a good money
making job into a money losing headache. So we are looking for inserts
that can be trusted. Besides Heli-Coild brand inserts does anybody
here have any experience with STI of another brand? The Re-Coil brand
ones have just gotten so bad. By the way, it doesn't matter if I
install the inserts by hand with the RE-Coil type tool, by hand with
the thread in type tool, by hand with a pre-winder, under power with a
pre winder, or under power without a pre-winder. I have eliminated
everything else and it is the crappy inserts that are the problem.
Eric
dpb
Jun 21, 2016, 2:14:22 PM6/21/16
to
On 06/21/2016 12:52 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
...
> ... The last 4000 inserts my customer has
> ... So we are looking for inserts that can be trusted. ...
No direct help, no sorry; sounds like a problem indeed.
It appears Recoil is an ALCOA product; they're hardly a fly-by-night
outfit. Have you contacted their engineering support with your tale of
woe? I'd expect them to have solutions/guidance.
--
...
> ... The last 4000 inserts my customer has
> provided are from Re-Coil. These inserts have been really troublesome.
...
> ... So we are looking for inserts that can be trusted. ...
No direct help, no sorry; sounds like a problem indeed.
It appears Recoil is an ALCOA product; they're hardly a fly-by-night
outfit. Have you contacted their engineering support with your tale of
woe? I'd expect them to have solutions/guidance.
--
et...@whidbey.com
Jun 21, 2016, 2:39:50 PM6/21/16
to
Eric
dpb
Jun 21, 2016, 4:32:28 PM6/21/16
to
The most extensive range of wire thread inserts and thread repair
products in a wide variety of sizes and thread forms.
Ex-stock availability on a huge variety of both standard and special
products.
Optimum installation efficiency achieved by the latest high precision
tooling and years of development experience.
Comprehensive technical support from our dedicated, multi-lingual
European support team.
...
Contact Information
James Baumgartner
Customer Service Supervisor
North America
317.704.8852
There's an email form for assistance at
<http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_systems_and_rings/aerospace/en/general/contact_afs.asp?contact_recp=1>
I wasn't aware of Alcoa Fastening Systems; seems they're Melbourne-based
manufacturing with a US operations headquarters in Indianapolis.
I worked on some upgrade control systems at the rolling mill facility in
Alcoa, TN, a number of years ago, but they're the "soda-can by the mile"
bunch...
I'd surely yell (loudly) with the troubles you're having all the way to
the president if had to before I just slunk away...
--
et...@whidbey.com
Jun 21, 2016, 7:02:32 PM6/21/16
to
first posted about this and found KATO company STI products. Also
apparently owned by Alcoa. They are sending me info, samples, and
maybe a tangless installing tool to try. My customer supplies the
inserts and he will be refunded for the ones he returns, but the time
I have lost is just lost.
Eric
Bob La Londe
Jun 21, 2016, 7:15:42 PM6/21/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:nouimblba2ejgl2n8...@4ax.com...
> I have eliminated
> everything else and it is the crappy inserts that are the problem.
Actually it is the customer that is the problem. In order to save a few
cents per unit they have shit on your labor. If the customer wants to
provide an inferior and inconsistent part then they need to accept the work
that results. What you need to do is find a way to get the customer to use
quality parts. If you have to work harder and make less something just
isn't right in order to save them money.
If you do not feel a negotiation with the customer would be successful would
it be easier to just resell the crap they provide on Ebay and use a better
quality part? Sounds like it might not make you as much money as if they
provided a quality part, but atleast you wouldn't be fighting every one.
You might make more than using the crap parts.
news:nouimblba2ejgl2n8...@4ax.com...
> I have eliminated
> everything else and it is the crappy inserts that are the problem.
cents per unit they have shit on your labor. If the customer wants to
provide an inferior and inconsistent part then they need to accept the work
that results. What you need to do is find a way to get the customer to use
quality parts. If you have to work harder and make less something just
isn't right in order to save them money.
If you do not feel a negotiation with the customer would be successful would
it be easier to just resell the crap they provide on Ebay and use a better
quality part? Sounds like it might not make you as much money as if they
provided a quality part, but atleast you wouldn't be fighting every one.
You might make more than using the crap parts.
et...@whidbey.com
Jun 21, 2016, 7:50:25 PM6/21/16
to
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:15:28 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99>
wrote:
Greetings Bob,
The customer is trying to supply good inserts. This is not the first
time we have had problems. He is losing money when welded in parts
need to be cut out of hulls and new ones welded in. I lose money
dealing with inconsistent inserts. If he needs to spend more money on
inserts he will. The same suppier used to provide good inserts but
lately there have been problems. So my customer isn't the problem and
he hasn't shit on me. We are both trying to make good parts and if it
means more money spent on different inserts that will happen. It sucks
to buy 2000 inserts from a different supplier and then find out they
are bad too. What I want is help solving this problem so that I and my
customer can go back to making good money by making and selling good
parts. Do you have any experience with screw thread inserts from
different makers? Can you give me helpful advice? If not then maybe
you should not offer any opinions.
Eric
wrote:
The customer is trying to supply good inserts. This is not the first
time we have had problems. He is losing money when welded in parts
need to be cut out of hulls and new ones welded in. I lose money
dealing with inconsistent inserts. If he needs to spend more money on
inserts he will. The same suppier used to provide good inserts but
lately there have been problems. So my customer isn't the problem and
he hasn't shit on me. We are both trying to make good parts and if it
means more money spent on different inserts that will happen. It sucks
to buy 2000 inserts from a different supplier and then find out they
are bad too. What I want is help solving this problem so that I and my
customer can go back to making good money by making and selling good
parts. Do you have any experience with screw thread inserts from
different makers? Can you give me helpful advice? If not then maybe
you should not offer any opinions.
Eric
Bob La Londe
Jun 21, 2016, 9:44:40 PM6/21/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:q8kjmb1pdvtr5d2ju...@4ax.com...
Before I start offering helpful advice. I have as much right to speak about
something you posted publicly as anybody else. You are the one that said
the customer provided bad inserts. Maybe you should have thought before you
chose the arrangement of words that you did.
Actually I have dealt with different brands and types of inserts, although
not in such quantities. I have a few packs of Re-Coils in my inserts
drawers now. They look and act just like the ones I got from Harbor
Freight. Maybe you were fortunate enough to have some Re-Coil brand that
were better at one time, but I have never fealt Re-Coils were as good as the
old Heli-Coil brand inserts. I still have a bunch of those for my most
common sizes so I have not had to delve into the drawers of Re-Coils or
Harbor Freight inserts for some time.
I have seen it claimed that the Heli-Coil and Re-Coils taps are the same,
but you might want to double check that.
I don't have an answer to all of your problems with the break off tools, but
you can solve part of that by making your own with some drill rod.
news:q8kjmb1pdvtr5d2ju...@4ax.com...
something you posted publicly as anybody else. You are the one that said
the customer provided bad inserts. Maybe you should have thought before you
chose the arrangement of words that you did.
Actually I have dealt with different brands and types of inserts, although
not in such quantities. I have a few packs of Re-Coils in my inserts
drawers now. They look and act just like the ones I got from Harbor
Freight. Maybe you were fortunate enough to have some Re-Coil brand that
were better at one time, but I have never fealt Re-Coils were as good as the
old Heli-Coil brand inserts. I still have a bunch of those for my most
common sizes so I have not had to delve into the drawers of Re-Coils or
Harbor Freight inserts for some time.
I have seen it claimed that the Heli-Coil and Re-Coils taps are the same,
but you might want to double check that.
I don't have an answer to all of your problems with the break off tools, but
you can solve part of that by making your own with some drill rod.
dpb
Jun 22, 2016, 9:22:25 AM6/22/16
to
On 06/21/2016 6:05 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
...
> I went to the Alcoa web site in a kind of roundabout way before I
> first posted about this and found KATO company STI products. Also
> apparently owned by Alcoa. They are sending me info, samples, and
> maybe a tangless installing tool to try. My customer supplies the
> inserts and he will be refunded for the ones he returns, but the time
> I have lost is just lost.
> Eric
Yeah, time is one thing only Dr Who can get back...and even he's pretty
...
> I went to the Alcoa web site in a kind of roundabout way before I
> first posted about this and found KATO company STI products. Also
> apparently owned by Alcoa. They are sending me info, samples, and
> maybe a tangless installing tool to try. My customer supplies the
> inserts and he will be refunded for the ones he returns, but the time
> I have lost is just lost.
> Eric
uncertain on any specific point... :(
Anyway, glad you got at least some feedback; think I'd still try to
escalate to the tech support for the actual product; if I read the above
correctly this yet another or just a different distributor, not sure...
Good luck, wish I knew more.
--
Tim Wescott
Jun 22, 2016, 11:01:01 AM6/22/16
to
actions are saying "we desire that you not be our customer". Just as it
almost never works to hire back someone you've fired, it almost never
works to try to arm-twist a vendor into being something they're not.
I'd hesitate to elevate things to the VP or director of NA operations
level, because I'm not sure that I'd want to work with a sales or service
guy whose just got an ass whupping because I complained to his boss's
boss's boss. I might send a letter about why I was switching to Heli-
coil for the foreseeable future, though.
--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com
dpb
Jun 22, 2016, 11:15:52 AM6/22/16
to
support guys simply because don't have the access...while I don't know
anything particular about these guys in Australia, my other experience
dealing with Alcoa has been they've been more than willing to support
clients with technical issues; but you're got to get to the right group.
While I used "yell", it was intended in the sense of "Help!!!" and "To
whom do I go?" politely requested. The product literature says
expressly they offer technical support; I've seen it from other areas of
Alcoa and I'd expect it to be so here until was shown it isn't.
But, if I'm having difficulty with a product and _don't_ ask for help
from the vendor I'm not going to get any...I'm only suggesting he use
the contact information they provided; I'd not expect just a
distributor/sales rep to necessarily have any great expertise...
--
Larry Jaques
Jun 22, 2016, 11:32:59 AM6/22/16
to
On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:00:54 -0500, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com>
Heli Coil and both installs went quickly and smoothly. More often,
when I worked as a mechanic, other machine work had to be done, so the
machinists did broken stud repairs for me.
>> "What We Offer:
>> The most extensive range of wire thread inserts and thread repair
>> products in a wide variety of sizes and thread forms.
>> Ex-stock availability on a huge variety of both standard and special
>> products.
>> Optimum installation efficiency achieved by the latest high precision
>> tooling and years of development experience.
>> Comprehensive technical support from our dedicated, multi-lingual
>> European support team.
>> ...
>> Contact Information James Baumgartner Customer Service Supervisor North
>> America 317.704.8852
>>
>> There's an email form for assistance at
>>
>> <http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_systems_and_rings/aerospace/en/general/
>contact_afs.asp?contact_recp=1>
>>
>> I wasn't aware of Alcoa Fastening Systems; seems they're Melbourne-based
>> manufacturing with a US operations headquarters in Indianapolis.
>>
>> I worked on some upgrade control systems at the rolling mill facility in
>> Alcoa, TN, a number of years ago, but they're the "soda-can by the mile"
>> bunch...
It can be tedious working with large corporations.
>> I'd surely yell (loudly) with the troubles you're having all the way to
>> the president if had to before I just slunk away...
Ditto. But only if it's too costly to simply walk away from said
company and find a decent one.
>I try to be sensitive to a vendor's desires -- at least when their
>actions are saying "we desire that you not be our customer". Just as it
>almost never works to hire back someone you've fired, it almost never
>works to try to arm-twist a vendor into being something they're not.
Ditto again. I immediately respond negatively to non-responsive
companies, then try to let as many people know about said buttwipes so
they don't make the mistake I have.
>I'd hesitate to elevate things to the VP or director of NA operations
>level, because I'm not sure that I'd want to work with a sales or service
>guy whose just got an ass whupping because I complained to his boss's
>boss's boss.
Yeah, there's a chance it could cause more strife, but I'd think most
would instantly become your buddy so they could get satisfaction
feedback from you to give to the big boss, showing that they learned
their lesson and took care of you. The few times I've had to do this,
I let the guys know that it wasn't personal, it happened simply
because someone in their department totally screwed the pooch. Some
acknowledge that, others lay the blame on coworkers. I try to figure
out who really caused it and include that in my feedback to the big
boss once the problem is solved.
Similar: I recently responded to a Target ad and went to purchase a
wire baker's rack and wheels. I got there the day after the ad came
out and couldn't find either item on their shelves. After half an
hour, seeking people who could help me, we finally found a hidden box
with the rack I wanted. No wheels, but they said they'd have stock in
a week or so. I bought the rack and trekked the 30 miles home. There
was a feedback request on the sales slip, so I squeaked about the
hassle. 2 days later, the inventory manager (some specialized title)
emailed and then called me. He apologized that the items weren't in
stock and said he'd make up for it by giving me the wheel set. When I
told him it was a hassle to trek the 60 mile round trip, he responded
by sending them to my house, gratis. They showed up within the week
with 4 coupons worth $3 each for purchases at Target. THAT is
customer service. I thanked him personally and left similar feedback
about him on the corporate website.
>I might send a letter about why I was switching to Heli-
>coil for the foreseeable future, though.
Absolutely. Try to find the CEO and get the letter (or email) there.
Screw the lower ranks who've already ignored you. I feel that it's
important to let the top guys know so they can rid themselves of the
idiots working for them and make their companies more responsive to
the needs of their customers.
--
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives
the test first, the lesson afterwards.
-- Vernon Sanders Law
wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 15:32:26 -0500, dpb wrote:
>
>> On 06/21/2016 1:42 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 13:14:18 -0500, dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 06/21/2016 12:52 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> ... The last 4000 inserts my customer has provided are from Re-Coil.
>>>>> These inserts have been really troublesome.
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> ... So we are looking for inserts that can be trusted. ...
>>>>
>>>> No direct help, no sorry; sounds like a problem indeed.
>>>>
>>>> It appears Recoil is an ALCOA product; they're hardly a fly-by-night
>>>> outfit. Have you contacted their engineering support with your tale
>>>> of woe? I'd expect them to have solutions/guidance.
>>> Recoil=NO HELP. Just salsemen who complain.
>>> Eric
I've installed exactly 2 STIs in projects in my life, but both were
>On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 15:32:26 -0500, dpb wrote:
>
>> On 06/21/2016 1:42 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 13:14:18 -0500, dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 06/21/2016 12:52 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> ... The last 4000 inserts my customer has provided are from Re-Coil.
>>>>> These inserts have been really troublesome.
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> ... So we are looking for inserts that can be trusted. ...
>>>>
>>>> No direct help, no sorry; sounds like a problem indeed.
>>>>
>>>> It appears Recoil is an ALCOA product; they're hardly a fly-by-night
>>>> outfit. Have you contacted their engineering support with your tale
>>>> of woe? I'd expect them to have solutions/guidance.
>>> Recoil=NO HELP. Just salsemen who complain.
>>> Eric
Heli Coil and both installs went quickly and smoothly. More often,
when I worked as a mechanic, other machine work had to be done, so the
machinists did broken stud repairs for me.
>> "What We Offer:
>> The most extensive range of wire thread inserts and thread repair
>> products in a wide variety of sizes and thread forms.
>> Ex-stock availability on a huge variety of both standard and special
>> products.
>> Optimum installation efficiency achieved by the latest high precision
>> tooling and years of development experience.
>> Comprehensive technical support from our dedicated, multi-lingual
>> European support team.
>> ...
>> Contact Information James Baumgartner Customer Service Supervisor North
>> America 317.704.8852
>>
>> There's an email form for assistance at
>>
>> <http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_systems_and_rings/aerospace/en/general/
>contact_afs.asp?contact_recp=1>
>>
>> I wasn't aware of Alcoa Fastening Systems; seems they're Melbourne-based
>> manufacturing with a US operations headquarters in Indianapolis.
>>
>> I worked on some upgrade control systems at the rolling mill facility in
>> Alcoa, TN, a number of years ago, but they're the "soda-can by the mile"
>> bunch...
>> I'd surely yell (loudly) with the troubles you're having all the way to
>> the president if had to before I just slunk away...
company and find a decent one.
>I try to be sensitive to a vendor's desires -- at least when their
>actions are saying "we desire that you not be our customer". Just as it
>almost never works to hire back someone you've fired, it almost never
>works to try to arm-twist a vendor into being something they're not.
companies, then try to let as many people know about said buttwipes so
they don't make the mistake I have.
>I'd hesitate to elevate things to the VP or director of NA operations
>level, because I'm not sure that I'd want to work with a sales or service
>guy whose just got an ass whupping because I complained to his boss's
>boss's boss.
would instantly become your buddy so they could get satisfaction
feedback from you to give to the big boss, showing that they learned
their lesson and took care of you. The few times I've had to do this,
I let the guys know that it wasn't personal, it happened simply
because someone in their department totally screwed the pooch. Some
acknowledge that, others lay the blame on coworkers. I try to figure
out who really caused it and include that in my feedback to the big
boss once the problem is solved.
Similar: I recently responded to a Target ad and went to purchase a
wire baker's rack and wheels. I got there the day after the ad came
out and couldn't find either item on their shelves. After half an
hour, seeking people who could help me, we finally found a hidden box
with the rack I wanted. No wheels, but they said they'd have stock in
a week or so. I bought the rack and trekked the 30 miles home. There
was a feedback request on the sales slip, so I squeaked about the
hassle. 2 days later, the inventory manager (some specialized title)
emailed and then called me. He apologized that the items weren't in
stock and said he'd make up for it by giving me the wheel set. When I
told him it was a hassle to trek the 60 mile round trip, he responded
by sending them to my house, gratis. They showed up within the week
with 4 coupons worth $3 each for purchases at Target. THAT is
customer service. I thanked him personally and left similar feedback
about him on the corporate website.
>I might send a letter about why I was switching to Heli-
>coil for the foreseeable future, though.
Screw the lower ranks who've already ignored you. I feel that it's
important to let the top guys know so they can rid themselves of the
idiots working for them and make their companies more responsive to
the needs of their customers.
--
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives
the test first, the lesson afterwards.
-- Vernon Sanders Law
dpb
Jun 22, 2016, 11:58:02 AM6/22/16
to
On 06/22/2016 10:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:00:54 -0500, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com>
> wrote:
...
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:00:54 -0500, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com>
> wrote:
>> I might send a letter about why I was switching to Heli-
>> coil for the foreseeable future, though.
>
> Absolutely. Try to find the CEO and get the letter (or email) there.
I don't think there's any indication as of yet the manufacturer has done
any such thing -- as I read it, he said he'd dealt with a
distributor/sales rep and the salesmen weren't terribly responsive but
that's not too surprising. One would _hope_ they would point you to the
manufacturer's technical support, but for niche products it's likely
they don't know any more than he does who that might be, particularly
since he's not the direct customer, his customer is.
As noted earlier and while it was a far different portion of ALCOA,
while I was working on their site the office space they loaned was in an
area which included their onsite support engineers...it was pretty
routine for them to get calls from customers over an issue and they were
dealt with; usually could be taken care of there altho a few were
escalated to the research center in Pittsburgh.
Just sayin', gotta' give 'em a chance but they can't even know there's a
problem until somebody tells 'em...and if the local sales rep doesn't
have a direct technical support engineer contact to provide and since
for this product apparently the manufacturing is in Australia and the
support contact they provide is the NA Operations VP, call his office
and (politely) ask for guidance on whom to contact for help...how hard
can that be?
--
--
dpb
Jun 22, 2016, 2:48:42 PM6/22/16
to
On 06/22/2016 10:15 AM, dpb wrote:
...
> But, if I'm having difficulty with a product and _don't_ ask for help
> from the vendor I'm not going to get any...I'm only suggesting he use
> the contact information they provided; I'd not expect just a
> distributor/sales rep to necessarily have any great expertise...
...
And, just as a point of "what if", who better than the manufacturer to
look at the application and say "No chance! The tolerances you're
expecting are simply not going to be met by this product."
OTOH, if they say there should be no issues with the product meeting
that spec, then you've got something to work towards on why this
particular application is failing so often.
Either way, unless you ask when there's a problem that isn't up to your
expectations of what you think should be. I didn't look for any actual
product spec's so have no idea what those might look like but mayhaps
they need to redesign the part; maybe it isn't the manufacturer but the
expectations that are the root cause.
--
...
> But, if I'm having difficulty with a product and _don't_ ask for help
> from the vendor I'm not going to get any...I'm only suggesting he use
> the contact information they provided; I'd not expect just a
> distributor/sales rep to necessarily have any great expertise...
And, just as a point of "what if", who better than the manufacturer to
look at the application and say "No chance! The tolerances you're
expecting are simply not going to be met by this product."
OTOH, if they say there should be no issues with the product meeting
that spec, then you've got something to work towards on why this
particular application is failing so often.
Either way, unless you ask when there's a problem that isn't up to your
expectations of what you think should be. I didn't look for any actual
product spec's so have no idea what those might look like but mayhaps
they need to redesign the part; maybe it isn't the manufacturer but the
expectations that are the root cause.
--
DoN. Nichols
Jun 23, 2016, 12:21:06 AM6/23/16
to
On 2016-06-22, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
> On 06/22/2016 10:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:00:54 -0500, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com>
>> wrote:
> ...
>
>>> I might send a letter about why I was switching to Heli-
>>> coil for the foreseeable future, though.
>>
>> Absolutely. Try to find the CEO and get the letter (or email) there.
>> Screw the lower ranks who've already ignored you. ...
>
> I don't think there's any indication as of yet the manufacturer has done
> any such thing -- as I read it, he said he'd dealt with a
> distributor/sales rep and the salesmen weren't terribly responsive but
> that's not too surprising. One would _hope_ they would point you to the
> manufacturer's technical support, but for niche products it's likely
> they don't know any more than he does who that might be, particularly
> since he's not the direct customer, his customer is.
[ ... ]
> On 06/22/2016 10:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:00:54 -0500, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com>
>> wrote:
> ...
>
>>> I might send a letter about why I was switching to Heli-
>>> coil for the foreseeable future, though.
>>
>> Absolutely. Try to find the CEO and get the letter (or email) there.
>> Screw the lower ranks who've already ignored you. ...
>
> I don't think there's any indication as of yet the manufacturer has done
> any such thing -- as I read it, he said he'd dealt with a
> distributor/sales rep and the salesmen weren't terribly responsive but
> that's not too surprising. One would _hope_ they would point you to the
> manufacturer's technical support, but for niche products it's likely
> they don't know any more than he does who that might be, particularly
> since he's not the direct customer, his customer is.
> Just sayin', gotta' give 'em a chance but they can't even know there's a
> problem until somebody tells 'em...and if the local sales rep doesn't
> have a direct technical support engineer contact to provide and since
> for this product apparently the manufacturing is in Australia and the
> support contact they provide is the NA Operations VP, call his office
> and (politely) ask for guidance on whom to contact for help...how hard
> can that be?
offen, but which I have were made by Heli-Coil, and there were two
styles -- a "free-running" one and a "thread-locking" one. The latter
has alternate turns bent into the center to *intentionally* drag. Is it
possible that some of these got mixed in with the regular ones? I think
that it would be worth while checking before complaining upstream about
the product itself.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
dpb
Jun 23, 2016, 9:38:31 AM6/23/16
to
On 06/22/2016 11:23 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
...
> One thing comes to mind about this. I don't use the inserts
> offen, but which I have were made by Heli-Coil, and there were two
> styles -- a "free-running" one and a "thread-locking" one. The latter
> has alternate turns bent into the center to *intentionally* drag. Is it
> possible that some of these got mixed in with the regular ones? I think
> that it would be worth while checking before complaining upstream about
> the product itself.
Well, I'm not "complaining about the product" I'm asking for technical
support; _BIG_ difference.
Sure, it's always a possibility there's an inventory defect involved, of
course, and if there are different products similar-enough in appearance
to possibly confuse one with another, then sure, that's got to be
eliminated. One would presume, however, with the number of these the OP
has done and his familiarity thereof that he'd have noticed such long
before now.
--
...
> One thing comes to mind about this. I don't use the inserts
> offen, but which I have were made by Heli-Coil, and there were two
> styles -- a "free-running" one and a "thread-locking" one. The latter
> has alternate turns bent into the center to *intentionally* drag. Is it
> possible that some of these got mixed in with the regular ones? I think
> that it would be worth while checking before complaining upstream about
> the product itself.
support; _BIG_ difference.
Sure, it's always a possibility there's an inventory defect involved, of
course, and if there are different products similar-enough in appearance
to possibly confuse one with another, then sure, that's got to be
eliminated. One would presume, however, with the number of these the OP
has done and his familiarity thereof that he'd have noticed such long
before now.
--
et...@whidbey.com
Jun 24, 2016, 2:41:10 PM6/24/16
to
On 23 Jun 2016 04:23:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com>
wrote:
Greetings DoN,
These are not the locking type. They are obvious because of deformed
coils in the middle of the insert.
Eric
wrote:
These are not the locking type. They are obvious because of deformed
coils in the middle of the insert.
Eric
dpb
Jun 24, 2016, 5:13:48 PM6/24/16
to
On 06/24/2016 1:43 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
...
> These are not the locking type....
As I figured... :)
I suppose nothing new to report as yet...
--
...
> These are not the locking type....
As I figured... :)
I suppose nothing new to report as yet...
--
et...@whidbey.com
Jun 25, 2016, 3:44:11 PM6/25/16
to
don't know the name of. I did get prices for inserts and the insertion
tools from KATO. The tanged inserts are 12 cents each and the tangless
ones are 85 cents each along with $209.00 for the insertion tool. The
tangless ones will not be cost effective especially since these parts
don't have blind holes which could hold a removed tang and later drop
it into a sensitive aircraft component. Next week I'll be testing the
two new brands of inserts.
Eric
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