Machining a Pulley for a Drill Press
Searcher7
that had never been used. I proceeded to connect the AC and the pulley
to the motor shaft, only to find out that the pulley has an I.D. of
1/2" and the motor shaft has O.D. of 5/8". (This explains why the
previous owner never finished it).
Outside of trying to find another pulley set I was wondering if I
should look into machining the present motor pulley by boring the
1-1/2" I.D. long from 1/2" diameter to 5/8" diameter.
Also, the pulley has a set screw, and the motor shaft has a key-way.
The problem is that the set screw *may* be too small for the key-way,
in which case I'd also have to re-drill for a larger set screw.
And all this after I figure out whether this would be best done on a
lathe or a mill, and then how to work hold for both operations.
I'd appreciated any advice on whether a project like this is
plausible, or should I just keep my eyes open for a pulley set that
fits.
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
Karl Townsend
Work holding can be easy or a bear depending on your exact pulley. I
generally use soft jaws (to get a large clamp area and not mash the
pulley) and clamp to the O.D. of the whole thing if the pulley isn't
huge. This one shouldn't be. Use of softjaws also guarantees your
pulley is dead nuts on center.
Use your favorite boring bar to bore pulley to size. Go maybe 2 thou
over so the pulley will slide right in place. You don't want a press
fit. I often use a piece of shaft the same O.D. as the motor shaft to
test the fit.
Before I bought a broach set, I often did the keyway right in the
lathe. (This little project needs more description than I'm giving
here) To do this, you mount a lathe tool bit the same size as your key
right in the lathe tool holder. Mount it so the bit points straight
into the bore and is on center. All you need for bit grinding is a
back rake right on the end of the bit.
From there, with the lathe off, start running the carriage in/out by
hand to slowly cut the keyway. Take a few strokes, then advance the
cross slide. Machinery Handbook has a nice table to tell you the
dimension from top of keyway to opposite side of the bore so you know
how much metal to remove.
There are other methods, this is just one good one.
Karl
Snag
I use one of my boring bars to scrape keyways in bores . Which one depend on
key size , one bar holds 3/16" cutters , the other 1/8" .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !
john B.
Giving the Devil his dues, I suspect that there is a reason the motor
shaft is keyed. Like maybe they tried the cheap-charley set screw and
it wouldn't hold.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> Outside of trying to find another pulley set I was wondering if I
> should look into machining the present motor pulley by boring the
> 1-1/2" I.D. long from 1/2" diameter to 5/8" diameter.
>
> Also, the pulley has a set screw, and the motor shaft has a key-way.
> The problem is that the set screw *may* be too small for the key-way,
> in which case I'd also have to re-drill for a larger set screw.
>
> And all this after I figure out whether this would be best done on a
> lathe or a mill, and then how to work hold for both operations.
>
> I'd appreciated any advice on whether a project like this is
> plausible, or should I just keep my eyes open for a pulley set that
> fits.
> Staten Island, New York.
If you have a big enough lathe it isn't hard. I'd put the pulley on a
short 1/2" rod, center the rod and turn the pulley OD concentric, then
chuck the pulley by the turned surface and check that the rod is
centered. Then bore it out to slide onto the motor shaft with no more
than finger pressure. You can use the inside and outside jaws of
calipers as a transfer gage, or turn some scrap to measure the same
diameter as the motor shaft.
Jamming a setscrew into the motor shaft keyway will cause damage
that's hard to repair. You can rough out a keyway in the pulley with a
scroll or saber saw and files, then finish it smooth and parallel on
the lathe as mentioned. That method is very slow so you want to rough
out as much metal as possible. The pulley keyway can be roughed deeper
than necessary since the setscrew pushes the key into the shaft.
If you accidentally rough the keyway too wide, mill a custom T-shaped
key. The proper key should work until the drill press jams, then the
poorly supported key might roll.
The simplest way to attach the pulley is to grind a flat for the
setscrew on the opposite side of the motor shaft. If you don't the
raised burr will gouge the pulley bore when you HAVE to remove it
later.
jsw
James Waldby
> I decided to get back to putting together an old table top drill press
> that had never been used. I proceeded to connect the AC and the pulley
> to the motor shaft, only to find out that the pulley has an I.D. of 1/2"
> and the motor shaft has O.D. of 5/8". (This explains why the previous
> owner never finished it).
>
> Outside of trying to find another pulley set I was wondering if I should
> look into machining the present motor pulley by boring the 1-1/2" I.D.
> long from 1/2" diameter to 5/8" diameter.
>
> Also, the pulley has a set screw, and the motor shaft has a key-way. The
> problem is that the set screw *may* be too small for the key-way, in
> which case I'd also have to re-drill for a larger set screw.
...
You can buy a 5/8"-bore keyed step pulley for $14.09 plus shipping:
<http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Die-Casting-1416-V-Groove/dp/B00004RAO1>
or $13.39: <http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=22837>
Two hits from google for 5/8 step pulley
--
jiw
Ignoramus895
I agree.
Making this sort of stuff is always more expensive than buying. The
only question is how many times more expensive.
i
Karl Townsend
>I agree.
>
>Making this sort of stuff is always more expensive than buying. The
>only question is how many times more expensive.
>
>i
Are you related to my better half? You might as well sell your mill if
you're only going to make stuff that can be cost justified.
This looks like a perfect oportunity to practice boring to size and
making a keyway.
Searcher7
wrote:
That's what I was thinking. (Though being a novice I may be in over my
head). I'll have to save and re-read all the suggestions until I can
visualize everything.
In the meantime since I have to drill a lot of 1-1/4"" holes in
plywood, laminated MDF, and plastics(Delrin/Nylon) I assume that I
should be looking for a single step pulley in the area of the larger
diameter.
Thanks everyone.
whit3rd
> I decided to get back to putting together an old table top drill press
> that had never been used. I proceeded to connect the AC and the pulley
> to the motor shaft, only to find out that the pulley has an I.D. of
> 1/2" and the motor shaft has O.D. of 5/8". (This explains why the
> previous owner never finished it).
You needn't consider the motor at hand, then; either find a
suitable one from a supplier of such things, or from your pile of
scavenged units, or from a buddy's pile of scavenged units.
Heck, offer the unsuitable motor for swap on craigslist...
Or, consider upgrading to a nice speed and torque controlled
DC motor.
Rebuilding pulleys, or replacing pulley/belt systems, isn't an
upgrade.
If you must redesign or rebuild, make that effort count.
DoN. Nichols
> I decided to get back to putting together an old table top drill press
> that had never been used. I proceeded to connect the AC and the pulley
> to the motor shaft, only to find out that the pulley has an I.D. of
> 1/2" and the motor shaft has O.D. of 5/8". (This explains why the
> previous owner never finished it).
Oops!
> Outside of trying to find another pulley set I was wondering if I
> should look into machining the present motor pulley by boring the
> 1-1/2" I.D. long from 1/2" diameter to 5/8" diameter.
That is awkward. I've made sleeves to *increase* the diameter
of a motor shaft, with a T cross-section key to fit both the keyway on
the shaft and that on the larger pulley. (And, the key is held in place
with a couple of counterbored holes for small Allen head cap screws
(4-40 IIRC.)
The main problem to my mind is whether you have a large enough
lathe chuck to grip the pulley. I would suggest soft jaws, turned to
fit the V-groove of the pulley as being more likely to hold the pulley
securely for the boring without damaging the flanges. Just grip on the
OD of the flanges. and you will make nicks which will probably cut or
fray the belt over time.
> Also, the pulley has a set screw, and the motor shaft has a key-way.
> The problem is that the set screw *may* be too small for the key-way,
> in which case I'd also have to re-drill for a larger set screw.
You want the setscrew to bear on the key -- not the bottom of
the keyway. So -- you'll want some way to cut the key slot in the
pulley after boring.
The common way is to use a DuMont key broach of appropriate
size, with an appropriate bushing to guide it..
But for that -- you will need an appropriately sized press,
which I don't think that you have.
And -- I'm pretty sure that you don't have a shaper, which is
another tool often used for the purpose.
So -- the best bet is -- *before* you remove the bored pulley
from the lathe chuck:
1) Lock the spindle against rotating -- engage direct drive and
back gears at the same time.
2) Set up a boring bar in the lathe carriage, with
a bit ground to cut the proper sized keyway.
3) Feed it in the full depth with the carriage -- at first barely
scraping. Then feed out with the cross slide and repeat.
Keep going until the depth of the cut is a little more than half
the width (as the key has to fit into the motor shaft, too.)
> And all this after I figure out whether this would be best done on a
> lathe or a mill, and then how to work hold for both operations.
For the boring -- best on a lathe.
For the keyway, there are keyseating heads available for serious
sized Bridgeport mills (a vertical shaper) -- but not for anything which
you can get up to your apartment. So use the stroking approach in the
lathe. You should be able to find better descriptions of the process by
those who have done it -- since I have not.
> I'd appreciated any advice on whether a project like this is
> plausible, or should I just keep my eyes open for a pulley set that
> fits.
How many steps on the pulley? How widely spaced are they? Can
you be sure that the replacement pulley will have the same spacing?
(And, of course, the size of the V-grooves depends on the belt you plan
to use.)
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Jim Wilkins
> ...> ...So use the stroking approach in the
> lathe. You should be able to find better descriptions of the process by
> those who have done it -- since I have not.
> DoN.
I have, to shape a cylinder with a protruding tab. Unless you can
adjust the carriage hold-down clamps for minimal play it will tilt
from the misdirected cutting pressure. The carriage feed doesn't have
anywhere near the mechanical advantage of an arbor press, so the chip
has to be very thin and the job goes slowly That's why I suggested
sawing out most of the keyway. I used a Sears/AA lathe that has a
handwheel on the 16TPI leadscrew and IIRC couldn't take much more than
0.001" per pass in aluminum.
jsw
Searcher7
> (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
> --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
This has turned into a another big project I don't have the best tools
for. :-)
I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
spinning shaft. :-)
As for the sizes. I measured the 5 step motor pulley I have using a
string. I wrapped the string around the inside of the largest step and
came up with 8-1/2" in circumference. The smallest step gave me 3" in
circumference.
So the numbers divided by Pi give me the following for all 5 steps
starting with the smallest:
3" = 0.95492"
4-3/8" = 1.39260"
5-3/4" = 1.83028"
7-1/8" = 2.26795"
8-1/2" = 2.70563"
I then did this another way. Starting with the smallest there are six
flanges. (The largest two are the same):
1-7/16"
1-11/16"
2-1/8"
2-7/16"
2-7/8"
2-7/8"
(And the pulley has a height of 2-2/3").
But the following is some info I received from someone in regard to
how to "properly" measure:
> The correct measurement is the "pitch" diameter. This is the distance
> that the belt moves in one revolution of the pulley (divided by Pi).
> It's different from both the inside diameter and the flange diameter
> because the belt rides on the sides of the pulley.
> To measure it, place the belt on the pulley and mark both the belt and
> pulley at the same spot (chalk is good). Rotate the pulley "exactly" 1
> revolution and mark the belt again, at the mark on the pulley. The
> pitch circumference is the distance between the marks on the belt.
> Neat, eh?
Now doing it that way I measure about 9" with the belt in the larger
diameter step. (The belt itself which came with the drill press is
just over 30 inches and says "Mountain M-30").
As for holding the pulley. If a 4" chuck isn't big enough the 5" I
have might be.(Of course I wouldn't be able to take *full* advantage
of such a chuck on my mini lathe). It would seem that I would have to
grip the pulley at it's largest diameter.(?). And I probably can only
grip as far as one of the pulley's steps anyway.
A key way in the I.D. of the pulley itself may not be plausible,
because after increasing the 1/2" I.D. to 5/8" there might not be
enough metal left. I'd have to dig to find my micrometer with small
enough anvils to accurately measure the O.D. inside the smallest step,
but going by my initial and of course inaccurate size of 0.95492",
which I think I can assume should be about 1", I came up with the
following.
The motor shaft is 5/8"(.625") in diameter.
The motor shaft key way is 3/16"(.18750") deep/square.
So if the key must be equally seated into key ways located in the
shaft *and* the pulley then the set screw would sit in a wall that is
less than 3/16"(.18750") thick.
*** Also, the above numbers assume zero tolerance.
Theoretically I can drill for two more set screws inside the second
and third pulley steps which are still located within the 1-1/2" deep
bore that fits around the motor shaft. (Making a key would seem to be
the easiest part of all this).
Nevertheless, as for holding the pulley in a chuck. Perhaps I can cut
a disk which would have a thickness matching the floor width inside a
pulley step. Bore a hole in the disk to an I.D. that matches the O.D.
inside of the pulley step. Then cut the disk in half. And use the
chuck to clamp both halves around a strip of 400 grit sandpaper folded
and wrapped inside the pulley step.
That said. Someone is sending me a couple of small single step pulleys
that I *might* be able to use until I can set up and machine the one I
have.
Thanks a lot.
john B.
Measure the diameter of each step on each pulley. The ratio between
the one the drill press pulley and the motor pulley is perfectly
adequate to calculate spindle RPM from the constant motor RPM.
If the front pulley step is half the diameter of the mating step on
the motor pulley the spindle will turn at twice motor RPM.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> Darren Harris
If you have a faceplate or can attach a plywood disk to the spindle
maybe you could screw the pulley onto it. Start by truing up the
seating surface with the pulley on a 1/2" shaft.
jsw
DoN. Nichols
> On Feb 16, 8:18 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
> This has turned into a another big project I don't have the best tools
> for. :-)
Don't they all? :-)
> I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
> spinning shaft. :-)
Likely to wind up eccentric. Every time the shaft brings the
keyway around, the file will drop and cut a little deeper for the first
part of the other side of the keyway.
> As for the sizes. I measured the 5 step motor pulley I have using a
> string. I wrapped the string around the inside of the largest step and
> came up with 8-1/2" in circumference. The smallest step gave me 3" in
> circumference.
>
> So the numbers divided by Pi give me the following for all 5 steps
> starting with the smallest:
>
> 3" = 0.95492"
> 4-3/8" = 1.39260"
> 5-3/4" = 1.83028"
> 7-1/8" = 2.26795"
> 8-1/2" = 2.70563"
O.K. This measurement would have been easier to get using
calipers -- vernier, dial or digital.
> I then did this another way. Starting with the smallest there are six
> flanges. (The largest two are the same):
>
> 1-7/16"
> 1-11/16"
> 2-1/8"
> 2-7/16"
> 2-7/8"
> 2-7/8"
>
> (And the pulley has a height of 2-2/3").
The flange spacing is only important in terms of finding the
right belt to fit it.
> But the following is some info I received from someone in regard to
> how to "properly" measure:
>
>> The correct measurement is the "pitch" diameter. This is the distance
>> that the belt moves in one revolution of the pulley (divided by Pi).
>> It's different from both the inside diameter and the flange diameter
>> because the belt rides on the sides of the pulley.
>
>> To measure it, place the belt on the pulley and mark both the belt and
>> pulley at the same spot (chalk is good). Rotate the pulley "exactly" 1
>> revolution and mark the belt again, at the mark on the pulley. The
>> pitch circumference is the distance between the marks on the belt.
>> Neat, eh?
>
> Now doing it that way I measure about 9" with the belt in the larger
> diameter step. (The belt itself which came with the drill press is
> just over 30 inches and says "Mountain M-30").
O.K. Now -- the pitch diameter only becomes important when you
are calculating belt ratios, not while you are trying to machine the
pulley to a larger hole.
> As for holding the pulley. If a 4" chuck isn't big enough the 5" I
> have might be.(Of course I wouldn't be able to take *full* advantage
> of such a chuck on my mini lathe).
Are you talking about a 4-jaw chuck, or a three-jaw chuck? The
jaws in the 4-jaw should be reversible, so you can grip a larger
diameter using the largest step. And that would give you the ability to
center the pulley well -- plus the flanges of the pulley would seat
against the next step down on the jaws, to get it close to plane.
> It would seem that I would have to
> grip the pulley at it's largest diameter.(?). And I probably can only
> grip as far as one of the pulley's steps anyway.
You need something to spread the grip out a bit -- you want to
grip both of the largest diameter flanges.
> A key way in the I.D. of the pulley itself may not be plausible,
> because after increasing the 1/2" I.D. to 5/8" there might not be
> enough metal left.
The pulley setscrew is seldom on the smallest step for this
reason. The setscrew should line up with the keyway in the pulley.
> I'd have to dig to find my micrometer with small
> enough anvils to accurately measure the O.D. inside the smallest step,
> but going by my initial and of course inaccurate size of 0.95492",
> which I think I can assume should be about 1", I came up with the
> following.
>
> The motor shaft is 5/8"(.625") in diameter.
> The motor shaft key way is 3/16"(.18750") deep/square.
3/16" deep? It has a 3/8" width? That is a big keyway for that
small a pulley.
> So if the key must be equally seated into key ways located in the
> shaft *and* the pulley then the set screw would sit in a wall that is
> less than 3/16"(.18750") thick.
Go to a larger step -- closer to the center of the key. Drill
and tap for a new setscrew.
> *** Also, the above numbers assume zero tolerance.
>
> Theoretically I can drill for two more set screws inside the second
> and third pulley steps which are still located within the 1-1/2" deep
> bore that fits around the motor shaft. (Making a key would seem to be
> the easiest part of all this).
Just one -- on the middle step -- should suffice.
> Nevertheless, as for holding the pulley in a chuck. Perhaps I can cut
> a disk which would have a thickness matching the floor width inside a
> pulley step. Bore a hole in the disk to an I.D. that matches the O.D.
> inside of the pulley step. Then cut the disk in half. And use the
> chuck to clamp both halves around a strip of 400 grit sandpaper folded
> and wrapped inside the pulley step.
That could work.
> That said. Someone is sending me a couple of small single step pulleys
> that I *might* be able to use until I can set up and machine the one I
> have.
I hope so. You know of course, that you could keep the same
speeds with a larger pulley if you got a lower speed motor. (But you
don't want to buy a new motor anyway -- right?
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
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Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-17, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 16, 8:18 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > This has turned into a another big project I don't have the best tools
> > for. :-)
>
> Don't they all? :-)
>
> > I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
> > spinning shaft. :-)
>
> Likely to wind up eccentric. Every time the shaft brings the
> keyway around, the file will drop and cut a little deeper for the first
> part of the other side of the keyway.
I don't know how much of an issue that would be but if I made a jig to
keep the file perpendicular to the axis of rotation it would eliminate
any concentricity problems. (But machining the motor shaft would be a
last resort anyway).
> > As for the sizes. I measured the 5 step motor pulley I have using a
> > string. I wrapped the string around the inside of the largest step and
> > came up with 8-1/2" in circumference. The smallest step gave me 3" in
> > circumference.
>
> > So the numbers divided by Pi give me the following for all 5 steps
> > starting with the smallest:
>
> > 3" = 0.95492"
> > 4-3/8" = 1.39260"
> > 5-3/4" = 1.83028"
> > 7-1/8" = 2.26795"
> > 8-1/2" = 2.70563"
>
> O.K. This measurement would have been easier to get using
> calipers -- vernier, dial or digital.
Yes. I just have to dig them out of the deep box they're sharing with
a ton of other tools. :-)
Yes. I actually did all these measurements for just in case I'd come
across a match somewhere.
> > As for holding the pulley. If a 4" chuck isn't big enough the 5" I
> > have might be.(Of course I wouldn't be able to take *full* advantage
> > of such a chuck on my mini lathe).
>
> Are you talking about a 4-jaw chuck, or a three-jaw chuck? The
> jaws in the 4-jaw should be reversible, so you can grip a larger
> diameter using the largest step. And that would give you the ability to
> center the pulley well -- plus the flanges of the pulley would seat
> against the next step down on the jaws, to get it close to plane.
Yes. It is the 4-jaw I was thinking about.
> > It would seem that I would have to
> > grip the pulley at it's largest diameter.(?). And I probably can only
> > grip as far as one of the pulley's steps anyway.
>
> You need something to spread the grip out a bit -- you want to
> grip both of the largest diameter flanges.
Yes. maximum surface/clamping area is what I'll aim for.
> > A key way in the I.D. of the pulley itself may not be plausible,
> > because after increasing the 1/2" I.D. to 5/8" there might not be
> > enough metal left.
>
> The pulley setscrew is seldom on the smallest step for this
> reason. The setscrew should line up with the keyway in the pulley.
The set screw on this pulley is located in the second smallest step,
and there is no key way.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Pulley1.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Pulley2.jpg
> > I'd have to dig to find my micrometer with small
> > enough anvils to accurately measure the O.D. inside the smallest step,
> > but going by my initial and of course inaccurate size of 0.95492",
> > which I think I can assume should be about 1", I came up with the
> > following.
>
> > The motor shaft is 5/8"(.625") in diameter.
> > The motor shaft key way is 3/16"(.18750") deep/square.
>
> 3/16" deep? It has a 3/8" width? That is a big keyway for that
> small a pulley.
Yes. That's what I was thinking. (Another reason why this motor is too
big for this pulley). :-)
> > So if the key must be equally seated into key ways located in the
> > shaft *and* the pulley then the set screw would sit in a wall that is
> > less than 3/16"(.18750") thick.
>
> Go to a larger step -- closer to the center of the key. Drill
> and tap for a new setscrew.
That would be the middle step.
> > *** Also, the above numbers assume zero tolerance.
>
> > Theoretically I can drill for two more set screws inside the second
> > and third pulley steps which are still located within the 1-1/2" deep
> > bore that fits around the motor shaft. (Making a key would seem to be
> > the easiest part of all this).
>
> Just one -- on the middle step -- should suffice.
>
> > Nevertheless, as for holding the pulley in a chuck. Perhaps I can cut
> > a disk which would have a thickness matching the floor width inside a
> > pulley step. Bore a hole in the disk to an I.D. that matches the O.D.
> > inside of the pulley step. Then cut the disk in half. And use the
> > chuck to clamp both halves around a strip of 400 grit sandpaper folded
> > and wrapped inside the pulley step.
>
> That could work.
>
> > That said. Someone is sending me a couple of small single step pulleys
> > that I *might* be able to use until I can set up and machine the one I
> > have.
>
> I hope so. You know of course, that you could keep the same
> speeds with a larger pulley if you got a lower speed motor. (But you
> don't want to buy a new motor anyway -- right?
Unfortunately my finances won't allow any "major" purchases for a long
time.(My employer has kept me out of work for two months so far).
BTW. I see a similar pulley on eBay: 380210297514
Not that I'd buy it, but I'd have to make a collar. (Which I think
might be easier than boring if I found a tube with the right I.D.).
And it is larger than the pulley I have. Also, it has no key way or
set screw. (?)
Thanks for all the advice.
DoN. Nichols
>> On 2011-02-17, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> > I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
>> > spinning shaft. :-)
>>
>> � � � � Likely to wind up eccentric. �Every time the shaft brings the
>> keyway around, the file will drop and cut a little deeper for the first
>> part of the other side of the keyway.
>
> I don't know how much of an issue that would be
The shaft eccentric would mean that the pulley would be
eccentric, leading to *lots* of vibration as you ran it, not to count
the periodic tightening and loosening of the belt as it rotates.
> but if I made a jig to
> keep the file perpendicular to the axis of rotation it would eliminate
> any concentricity problems.
I don't think so. With a 3/8" wide keyway, the diameter would
drop as the key passed under the file every rotation, starting it down,
and then cutting a bit more metal from the other side of the keyway.
> (But machining the motor shaft would be a
> last resort anyway).
How long is the motor shaft?
How does that compare to the maximum distance between centers on
your lathe?
Do you have a live center for the tailstock?
Does the motor have center holes in both ends of the shaft?
If so -- you disassemble the motor -- taking careful note of
how the centrifugal switch goes together, and put just the rotor and
shaft between centers -- and use the lathe to turn the diameter down.
This will eliminate the eccentricity problem suggested above.
[ ... ]
>> � � � � O.K. �This measurement would have been easier to get using
>> calipers -- vernier, dial or digital.
>
> Yes. I just have to dig them out of the deep box they're sharing with
> a ton of other tools. :-)
They are one of the tools which you should keep near the
surface. They are very useful for quick measurements.
[ ... ]
>> � � � � O.K. �Now -- the pitch diameter only becomes important when you
>> are calculating belt ratios, not while you are trying to machine the
>> pulley to a larger hole.
>
> Yes. I actually did all these measurements for just in case I'd come
> across a match somewhere.
O.K. Including people might read the list and think "I have a
pulley about that size." (However, *I* don't.)
>> > As for holding the pulley. If a 4" chuck isn't big enough the 5" I
>> > have might be.(Of course I wouldn't be able to take *full* advantage
>> > of such a chuck on my mini lathe).
>>
>> � � � � Are you talking about a 4-jaw chuck, or a three-jaw chuck? �The
>> jaws in the 4-jaw should be reversible, so you can grip a larger
>> diameter using the largest step. �And that would give you the ability to
>> center the pulley well -- plus the flanges of the pulley would seat
>> against the next step down on the jaws, to get it close to plane.
>
> Yes. It is the 4-jaw I was thinking about.
O.K. More comments when I get down to the URL posted.
[ ... ]
> The set screw on this pulley is located in the second smallest step,
> and there is no key way.
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Pulley1.jpg
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Pulley2.jpg
Looking at those -- it *looks* as though the pulley is a rather
rough casting, bored out somewhat large, and then a bushing pressed in
from the big end. (And that hollow at the big end may limit where
you can put your setscrew. Measure the depth there vs how far to the
center of the pulley grooves.
Dig out the caliper, and use the inside jaws to measure the step
above the shaft mounting bore on the small end. That *may* be close
enough to your needed shaft diameter to be usable. (Or, it may be a
near metric size. Let's see -- 5/8" is pretty close to 16mm -- actually
15.88 mm, so if the pulley bore is actually 16mm, you would have too
lose a fit -- by 0.12mm or about 0.005" -- so get some 0.0025" shim
stock and wrap it around the motor shaft before sliding on the pulley
after pushing out the bushing.
Probably the threads of the setscrew engage both those on the
pulley and on the bushing, to keep the bushing from spinning in the
pulley. You would have to remove the setscrew before pushing out the
bushing.
>> > � � � � � � � � � �I'd have to dig to find my micrometer with small
>> > enough anvils to accurately measure the O.D. inside the smallest step,
>> > but going by my initial and of course inaccurate size of 0.95492",
>> > which I think I can assume should be about 1", I came up with the
>> > following.
>>
>> > The motor shaft is 5/8"(.625") in diameter.
>> > The motor shaft key way is 3/16"(.18750") deep/square.
>>
>> � � � � 3/16" deep? �It has a 3/8" width? �That is a big keyway for that
>> small a pulley.
>
> Yes. That's what I was thinking. (Another reason why this motor is too
> big for this pulley). :-)
Well ... you could take some 3/8" key stock, and mill it to make
a 'T' shape -- with perhaps 3/16" width where it protrudes above the
motor shaft. And you could adjust the extent to minimize the needed
depth of the keyway in the pulley.
Note, however, that this motor may be just plain too big for the
drill press. Too much torque, likely to make the belts slip every time
you turn it on. You really need to find a more appropriate sized motor
for the drill press. (Have you checked whether the holes in the motor's
base even line up with the holes in the motor mounting plate on the
drill press?)
>> > So if the key must be equally seated into key ways located in the
>> > shaft *and* the pulley then the set screw would sit in a wall that is
>> > less than 3/16"(.18750") thick.
>>
>> � � � � Go to a larger step -- closer to the center of the key. �Drill
>> and tap for a new setscrew.
>
> That would be the middle step.
If there is meat on the inside all the way down to the shaft.
Seeing how much of a cavity is in that pulley makes me doubt it.
[ ... ]
>> > That said. Someone is sending me a couple of small single step pulleys
>> > that I *might* be able to use until I can set up and machine the one I
>> > have.
>>
>> � � � � I hope so. �You know of course, that you could keep the same
>> speeds with a larger pulley if you got a lower speed motor. (But you
>> don't want to buy a new motor anyway -- right?
>
> Unfortunately my finances won't allow any "major" purchases for a long
> time.(My employer has kept me out of work for two months so far).
Well ... used motors from the right place can be very cheap.
> BTW. I see a similar pulley on eBay: 380210297514
>
> Not that I'd buy it, but I'd have to make a collar. (Which I think
> might be easier than boring if I found a tube with the right I.D.).
> And it is larger than the pulley I have. Also, it has no key way or
> set screw. (?)
It may be an idler pulley, made for two ball bearing assemblies
to be pressed into to allow it to spin freely.
Good luck,
James Waldby
> On 2011-02-17, Searcher7 wrote:
>> BTW. I see a similar pulley on eBay: 380210297514
>>
>> Not that I'd buy it, but I'd have to make a collar. (Which I think
>> might be easier than boring if I found a tube with the right I.D.). And
>> it is larger than the pulley I have. Also, it has no key way or set
>> screw. (?)
>
> It may be an idler pulley, made for two ball bearing assemblies
> to be pressed into to allow it to spin freely.
That ebay auction says the pulley is a spindle pulley;
ie the upper end of the drill press spindle goes through it.
--
jiw
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-17, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 17, 3:29 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> >> On 2011-02-17, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> > I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
> >> > spinning shaft. :-)
>
> >> Likely to wind up eccentric. Every time the shaft brings the
> >> keyway around, the file will drop and cut a little deeper for the first
> >> part of the other side of the keyway.
>
> > I don't know how much of an issue that would be
>
> The shaft eccentric would mean that the pulley would be
> eccentric, leading to *lots* of vibration as you ran it, not to count
> the periodic tightening and loosening of the belt as it rotates.
Actually I was referring to the *practice* itself of filing free hand
to create such a condition.
> > but if I made a jig to
> > keep the file perpendicular to the axis of rotation it would eliminate
> > any concentricity problems.
>
> I don't think so. With a 3/8" wide keyway, the diameter would
> drop as the key passed under the file every rotation, starting it down,
> and then cutting a bit more metal from the other side of the keyway.
*If* the file is straight and kept perpendicular with some sort of
support(that would also eliminate bouncing) the same amount of
material taken off when the file hits the lip will also be taken of on
the opposite lip as it comes back around. As a result the depth of cut
at both sides of the "canyon" would have to be equal.
> > (But machining the motor shaft would be a
> > last resort anyway).
>
> How long is the motor shaft?
Without taking it apart I can't say, but the shaft protrudes 2-1/8"
out of the motor housing.
> How does that compare to the maximum distance between centers on
> your lathe?
Hmmm. I just looked and apparently the shaft ends at the fan inside
the housing. Ok. That's about 9-1/2". I didn''t measure but the promo
for this lathe says that the distance between centers is 14". But I
assume that with the proper collets and the spindle pass through it
shouldn't be an issue either way, correct?
> Do you have a live center for the tailstock?
Yes.
> Does the motor have center holes in both ends of the shaft?
I just checked and the answer to that is yes.
> If so -- you disassemble the motor -- taking careful note of
> how the centrifugal switch goes together, and put just the rotor and
> shaft between centers -- and use the lathe to turn the diameter down.
> This will eliminate the eccentricity problem suggested above.
Even though I'd only have to machine 2-1/8" of the shaft, considering
the size of it's key way, machining the cheaper pulley would probably
be a better way to go, correct? (I've never taken apart a motor
before, so I'd have to be meticulous in documenting dis-assembly).
> >> O.K. This measurement would have been easier to get using
> >> calipers -- vernier, dial or digital.
>
> > Yes. I just have to dig them out of the deep box they're sharing with
> > a ton of other tools. :-)
>
> They are one of the tools which you should keep near the
> surface. They are very useful for quick measurements.
Yes. :-) I'm in the middle of a major reorganization and I'm *finally*
getting all my tools into a single room that I'll use as a workshop.
So I have unboxed and put everything in their place yet.
> >> O.K. Now -- the pitch diameter only becomes important when you
> >> are calculating belt ratios, not while you are trying to machine the
> >> pulley to a larger hole.
>
> > Yes. I actually did all these measurements for just in case I'd come
> > across a match somewhere.
>
> O.K. Including people might read the list and think "I have a
> pulley about that size." (However, *I* don't.)
>
> >> > As for holding the pulley. If a 4" chuck isn't big enough the 5" I
> >> > have might be.(Of course I wouldn't be able to take *full* advantage
> >> > of such a chuck on my mini lathe).
>
> >> Are you talking about a 4-jaw chuck, or a three-jaw chuck? The
> >> jaws in the 4-jaw should be reversible, so you can grip a larger
> >> diameter using the largest step. And that would give you the ability to
> >> center the pulley well -- plus the flanges of the pulley would seat
> >> against the next step down on the jaws, to get it close to plane.
>
> > Yes. It is the 4-jaw I was thinking about.
>
> O.K. More comments when I get down to the URL posted.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > The set screw on this pulley is located in the second smallest step,
> > and there is no key way.
> >http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Pulley1...
> >http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Pulley2...
>
> Looking at those -- it *looks* as though the pulley is a rather
> rough casting, bored out somewhat large, and then a bushing pressed in
> from the big end. (And that hollow at the big end may limit where
> you can put your setscrew. Measure the depth there vs how far to the
> center of the pulley grooves.
I measured the depth of the bore at 1-3/8" which is why I concluded
that a hole for a set screw can be put in the middle pulley step which
is within that distance.
> Dig out the caliper, and use the inside jaws to measure the step
> above the shaft mounting bore on the small end. That *may* be close
> enough to your needed shaft diameter to be usable. (Or, it may be a
> near metric size. Let's see -- 5/8" is pretty close to 16mm -- actually
> 15.88 mm, so if the pulley bore is actually 16mm, you would have too
> lose a fit -- by 0.12mm or about 0.005" -- so get some 0.0025" shim
> stock and wrap it around the motor shaft before sliding on the pulley
> after pushing out the bushing.
>
> Probably the threads of the setscrew engage both those on the
> pulley and on the bushing, to keep the bushing from spinning in the
> pulley. You would have to remove the setscrew before pushing out the
> bushing.
Ok. About the bushing. I also initially assume that that was a
bushing. But that may not be the case. I subsequently concluded that
it is just part of the pulley that isn't painted black...
Looking in from the large side I see nothing to suggest a separate
piece. Nevertheless, if that portion *is* removed the 5/8" bore
criteria would be satisfied.
I'm having a difficult time putting the set screw back in. (I probably
have to pick up a better set of Allen keys)..
> >> > I'd have to dig to find my micrometer with small
> >> > enough anvils to accurately measure the O.D. inside the smallest step,
> >> > but going by my initial and of course inaccurate size of 0.95492",
> >> > which I think I can assume should be about 1", I came up with the
> >> > following.
>
> >> > The motor shaft is 5/8"(.625") in diameter.
> >> > The motor shaft key way is 3/16"(.18750") deep/square.
>
> >> 3/16" deep? It has a 3/8" width? That is a big keyway for that
> >> small a pulley.
>
> > Yes. That's what I was thinking. (Another reason why this motor is too
> > big for this pulley). :-)
>
> Well ... you could take some 3/8" key stock, and mill it to make
> a 'T' shape -- with perhaps 3/16" width where it protrudes above the
> motor shaft. And you could adjust the extent to minimize the needed
> depth of the keyway in the pulley.
"Key stock". Is that what it's called? (I thought that I'd just have
to get some square rod and mill it down).
> Note, however, that this motor may be just plain too big for the
> drill press. Too much torque, likely to make the belts slip every time
> you turn it on. You really need to find a more appropriate sized motor
> for the drill press. (Have you checked whether the holes in the motor's
> base even line up with the holes in the motor mounting plate on the
> drill press?)
The motor was attached to the base when I got it. Only the motor
pulley and belt needed placement after I connected the AC. The belt is
tension is adjusted by pivoting the motor until proper tension is
achieved. This is done with a screw below the belt-guard housing.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action=view¤t=DrillPress4.jpg
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action=view¤t=DrillPress5.jpg
> >> > So if the key must be equally seated into key ways located in the
> >> > shaft *and* the pulley then the set screw would sit in a wall that is
> >> > less than 3/16"(.18750") thick.
>
> >> Go to a larger step -- closer to the center of the key. Drill
> >> and tap for a new setscrew.
>
> > That would be the middle step.
>
> If there is meat on the inside all the way down to the shaft.
> Seeing how much of a cavity is in that pulley makes me doubt it.
Yes, there is enough. (But of course this requires some thought on how
to work hold again).
> >> > That said. Someone is sending me a couple of small single step pulleys
> >> > that I *might* be able to use until I can set up and machine the one I
> >> > have.
>
> >> I hope so. You know of course, that you could keep the same
> >> speeds with a larger pulley if you got a lower speed motor. (But you
> >> don't want to buy a new motor anyway -- right?
>
> > Unfortunately my finances won't allow any "major" purchases for a long
> > time.(My employer has kept me out of work for two months so far).
>
> Well ... used motors from the right place can be very cheap.
Ha! If I could only figure out where the "right place" is. :-)
> > BTW. I see a similar pulley on eBay: 380210297514
>
> > Not that I'd buy it, but I'd have to make a collar. (Which I think
> > might be easier than boring if I found a tube with the right I.D.).
> > And it is larger than the pulley I have. Also, it has no key way or
> > set screw. (?)
>
> It may be an idler pulley, made for two ball bearing assemblies
> to be pressed into to allow it to spin freely.
Actually the auction says "spindle pulley", so I guess it would be a
lost cause either way.
Thanks.
Bob Engelhardt
...
> I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
> spinning shaft. :-)
I haven't kept up-to-date on this thread, so if this comment is now
irrelevant ... please just ignore it <G>
I once reduced a 7/8" motor shaft to 3/4" by grinding it. I powered up
the motor and put an angle grinder to it. I used a 7" grinder ... a
4-1/2" one would have been pretty tedious. A file would be next to
impossible, endurance wise. I also trued it up with an air grinder held
in an x-y vise. A file might be used for the final truing.
Bob
DoN. Nichols
> On Feb 17, 11:42 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-02-17, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> > I don't know how much of an issue that would be
>>
>> The shaft eccentric would mean that the pulley would be
>> eccentric, leading to *lots* of vibration as you ran it, not to count
>> the periodic tightening and loosening of the belt as it rotates.
>
> Actually I was referring to the *practice* itself of filing free hand
> to create such a condition.
Really not a good idea. It *can* be done, and I have done it,
using a shaft which is already round, and back before I had a lathe, I
took a 1/4" shaft down to about 1/8" (I forget the precise diameter, I
was making a capstan for a tape deck which I was building, and it needed
to be the right diameter to produce 3-3/4 inches per second. I spent a
lot of time with the file and a micrometer checking as I went.
>> > but if I made a jig to
>> > keep the file perpendicular to the axis of rotation it would eliminate
>> > any concentricity problems.
>>
>> I don't think so. With a 3/8" wide keyway, the diameter would
>> drop as the key passed under the file every rotation, starting it down,
>> and then cutting a bit more metal from the other side of the keyway.
>
> *If* the file is straight and kept perpendicular with some sort of
> support(that would also eliminate bouncing) the same amount of
> material taken off when the file hits the lip will also be taken of on
> the opposite lip as it comes back around. As a result the depth of cut
> at both sides of the "canyon" would have to be equal.
I'll bet that you would have the choice of not progressing very
fast at all, or having enough of a drop to give problems. And you would
want your support bolted to the motor but easy to adjust.
>> > (But machining the motor shaft would be a
>> > last resort anyway).
>>
>> How long is the motor shaft?
>
> Without taking it apart I can't say, but the shaft protrudes 2-1/8"
> out of the motor housing.
Assume that it is the full length of the motor housing, plus the
visible extension as a worst case.
>> How does that compare to the maximum distance between centers on
>> your lathe?
>
> Hmmm. I just looked and apparently the shaft ends at the fan inside
> the housing. Ok. That's about 9-1/2". I didn''t measure but the promo
> for this lathe says that the distance between centers is 14". But I
> assume that with the proper collets and the spindle pass through it
> shouldn't be an issue either way, correct?
Not collets for this. You put a dead center (solid) in the
headstock taper, with a drive plate (perhaps a faceplate with a bolt
sticking out to drive a lathe dog). You put the live center in the
tailstock, and support the rotor and shaft between centers. A lathe dog
(something which clamps onto the short shaft near the headstock) engages
the pin or a slot in the faceplate, so as the lathe spindle turns, it
turns the shaft.
You will be doing your machining near the tailstock end, where
the live center is supporting the shaft.
Probably run at one of the slower speeds, because the dog and
driving bolt will probably unbalance the rotating mass, and your lathe
would otherwise be hopping all over the workbench -- or off it. :-)
>> Do you have a live center for the tailstock?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Does the motor have center holes in both ends of the shaft?
>
> I just checked and the answer to that is yes.
Then supporting it between centers is the right way to do the
job. The OD of the shaft was turned based on those center holes, so
supporting with the live center and turning should produce something
concentric. It is up to you to stop at the right point for a good fit.
And if you are going to be using just a setscrew -- no keyway -- mill a
flat on the shaft when you have the diameter right. This is for the
setscrew to press upon, so it does not raise burrs on the shaft and
prevent the pulley from being removed at a later date.
Oh yes -- while the shaft and rotor are in the lathe, use a file
to turn a bevel on the shoulder left by turning down the shaft diameter.
This will remove the burr which was left by the machining, and which
would likely burr the bearing as you reassembled.
>> If so -- you disassemble the motor -- taking careful note of
>> how the centrifugal switch goes together, and put just the rotor and
>> shaft between centers -- and use the lathe to turn the diameter down.
>> This will eliminate the eccentricity problem suggested above.
>
> Even though I'd only have to machine 2-1/8" of the shaft, considering
> the size of it's key way, machining the cheaper pulley would probably
> be a better way to go, correct? (I've never taken apart a motor
> before, so I'd have to be meticulous in documenting dis-assembly).
Yes -- but even better is getting another motor based on what
you show me later on in this article.
[ ... ]
>> Looking at those -- it *looks* as though the pulley is a rather
>> rough casting, bored out somewhat large, and then a bushing pressed in
>> from the big end. (And that hollow at the big end may limit where
>> you can put your setscrew. Measure the depth there vs how far to the
>> center of the pulley grooves.
>
> I measured the depth of the bore at 1-3/8" which is why I concluded
> that a hole for a set screw can be put in the middle pulley step which
> is within that distance.
O.K. But probably the second step would be better -- it would
be about half-way along the length of the bore.
>> Dig out the caliper, and use the inside jaws to measure the step
>> above the shaft mounting bore on the small end. That *may* be close
>> enough to your needed shaft diameter to be usable. (Or, it may be a
>> near metric size. Let's see -- 5/8" is pretty close to 16mm -- actually
>> 15.88 mm, so if the pulley bore is actually 16mm, you would have too
>> lose a fit -- by 0.12mm or about 0.005" -- so get some 0.0025" shim
>> stock and wrap it around the motor shaft before sliding on the pulley
>> after pushing out the bushing.
>>
>> Probably the threads of the setscrew engage both those on the
>> pulley and on the bushing, to keep the bushing from spinning in the
>> pulley. You would have to remove the setscrew before pushing out the
>> bushing.
>
> Ok. About the bushing. I also initially assume that that was a
> bushing. But that may not be the case. I subsequently concluded that
> it is just part of the pulley that isn't painted black...
>
> Looking in from the large side I see nothing to suggest a separate
> piece. Nevertheless, if that portion *is* removed the 5/8" bore
> criteria would be satisfied.
From the photos (which of course are not the same as having the
object in hand) it looks as though the inside end of the bushing expands
to a good percentage of the larger bore. This would mean that it would
have to be pushed out by pushing from the small end.
> I'm having a difficult time putting the set screw back in. (I probably
> have to pick up a better set of Allen keys)..
Or perhaps *two* sets. What are the odds that the setscrew is
metric?
Ball-end Allen keys are very convenient for some things, but a
straight-sided one is easier to use for starting a setscrew in the
bottom of a groove.
[ ... ]
>> > Yes. That's what I was thinking. (Another reason why this motor is too
>> > big for this pulley). :-)
>>
>> Well ... you could take some 3/8" key stock, and mill it to make
>> a 'T' shape -- with perhaps 3/16" width where it protrudes above the
>> motor shaft. And you could adjust the extent to minimize the needed
>> depth of the keyway in the pulley.
>
> "Key stock". Is that what it's called? (I thought that I'd just have
> to get some square rod and mill it down).
That is what key stock is -- square rod in the common key sizes.
Likely a little oversized so you can file them down to a precise fit. :-)
>> Note, however, that this motor may be just plain too big for the
>> drill press. Too much torque, likely to make the belts slip every time
>> you turn it on. You really need to find a more appropriate sized motor
>> for the drill press. (Have you checked whether the holes in the motor's
>> base even line up with the holes in the motor mounting plate on the
>> drill press?)
>
> The motor was attached to the base when I got it. Only the motor
> pulley and belt needed placement after I connected the AC. The belt is
> tension is adjusted by pivoting the motor until proper tension is
> achieved.
Actually -- looking at the photos -- the motor mount slides on
two pins which are secured by screws with flapping wings (common
China/Taiwan import construction). Those slides need to be cleaned of
rust and properly lubricated. And typically, there is a lever on the
right side of the drill press -- but I don't see it on this. It
normally runs a link to push or pull the motor during belt changes. And
I don't see the scew you mention. But the motor does *not* pivot -- the
entire mount slides in and out.
> This is done with a screw below the belt-guard housing.
> http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action=view¤t=DrillPress4.jpg
> http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action=view¤t=DrillPress5.jpg
Looking at the photos, I can tell you that this drill press was
*not* designed to accept a motor of this size. It is massive overkill.
This is fairly obvious from the side view photos, but even more so from
the top view ones. Is that your pulley sitting about half way between
the motor and the spindle? Or is it an idler pulley on a swinging arm
to allow more speeds than the 5 listed on the front?
Anyway -- you have the motor slid as close to the column as can
be done I think, and it is already close to where the edge of the pulley
would rub on the belt guard when it is closed.
I hope the bearings are better than some of the external
surfaces -- including the rust on the chuck.
You will need to clean off the rust on the column and the motor
adjusters, and oil them. Looks like it stood out in the back yard for a
few years. :-)
And I note that the spindle is a fixed Jacobs taper on the end
(a JT-2), instead of having a Morse taper in the spindle. This limits
your ability to use it for some tasks.
Just out of curiosity -- what does the motor nameplate say about
the horsepower? And what is the shaft RPM?
>> >> > So if the key must be equally seated into key ways located in the
>> >> > shaft *and* the pulley then the set screw would sit in a wall that is
>> >> > less than 3/16"(.18750") thick.
>>
>> >> Go to a larger step -- closer to the center of the key. Drill
>> >> and tap for a new setscrew.
>>
>> > That would be the middle step.
>>
>> If there is meat on the inside all the way down to the shaft.
>> Seeing how much of a cavity is in that pulley makes me doubt it.
>
> Yes, there is enough. (But of course this requires some thought on how
> to work hold again).
Don't! Get a smaller motor -- with a shaft which fits the
current pulley. Be prepared to measure the shaft when you go out
shopping for a used motor.
>> >> > That said. Someone is sending me a couple of small single step pulleys
>> >> > that I *might* be able to use until I can set up and machine the one I
>> >> > have.
>>
>> >> I hope so. You know of course, that you could keep the same
>> >> speeds with a larger pulley if you got a lower speed motor. (But you
>> >> don't want to buy a new motor anyway -- right?
>>
>> > Unfortunately my finances won't allow any "major" purchases for a long
>> > time.(My employer has kept me out of work for two months so far).
>>
>> Well ... used motors from the right place can be very cheap.
>
> Ha! If I could only figure out where the "right place" is. :-)
Depends on where you are. Medium sized three-phase motors are
often available from places which do heating/air-conditioning work, from
when they pulled out industrial units to replace them with larger ones.
I sometimes find motors at hamfests. (Think a large electronic
flea market). You might be able to find them at flea markets locally.
New York City and environs are really an unknown to me.
Do you have a local Craigslist?
How about a Freecycle?
>> > BTW. I see a similar pulley on eBay: 380210297514
>>
>> > Not that I'd buy it, but I'd have to make a collar. (Which I think
>> > might be easier than boring if I found a tube with the right I.D.).
>> > And it is larger than the pulley I have. Also, it has no key way or
>> > set screw. (?)
>>
>> It may be an idler pulley, made for two ball bearing assemblies
>> to be pressed into to allow it to spin freely.
>
> Actually the auction says "spindle pulley", so I guess it would be a
> lost cause either way.
Well ... if you could make a bushing to fit it to the 5/8"
shaft, and then drill and tap for a setscrew, it might be more
appropriate to that motor size. But you would need to know the RPM of
the motor -- with the larger pulley, the spindle speeds would likely be
too high. (And they seldom are slow enough for the size chuck supplied
when drilling steel. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN. Nichols
The grinder would get him below the keyway, which is what I was
expecting to cause problems with the filing approach.
But -- after viewing the photos that he posted links to -- the
motor is grossly oversized for the drill press. He really would be
better trading down to one of appropriate size. (Perhaps find someone
who *needs* the larger motor on Craigslist or the like?)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
Jim Wilkins
> On 2011-02-19, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
> ...>
> From the photos (which of course are not the same as having the
> object in hand) it looks as though the inside end of the bushing expands
> to a good percentage of the larger bore. This would mean that it would
> have to be pushed out by pushing from the small end.
That's what I thought too, there seems to be no other good reason for
that step in the small end bore. I'd turn a punch with a step that
centers it in the bushing so it doesn't score the pulley bore.
There's enough room in the big end to make and insert a disk with the
key slot and setscrew in it.
jsw
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-19, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
> >> How long is the motor shaft?
>
> > Without taking it apart I can't say, but the shaft protrudes 2-1/8"
> > out of the motor housing.
>
> Assume that it is the full length of the motor housing, plus the
> visible extension as a worst case.
The length from tip of shaft to
> > Hmmm. I just looked and apparently the shaft ends at the fan inside
> > the housing. Ok. That's about 9-1/2". I didn''t measure but the promo
> > for this lathe says that the distance between centers is 14". But I
> > assume that with the proper collets and the spindle pass through it
> > shouldn't be an issue either way, correct?
>
> Not collets for this. You put a dead center (solid) in the
> headstock taper, with a drive plate (perhaps a faceplate with a bolt
> sticking out to drive a lathe dog). You put the live center in the
> tailstock, and support the rotor and shaft between centers. A lathe dog
> (something which clamps onto the short shaft near the headstock) engages
> the pin or a slot in the faceplate, so as the lathe spindle turns, it
> turns the shaft.
>
> You will be doing your machining near the tailstock end, where
> the live center is supporting the shaft.
>
> Probably run at one of the slower speeds, because the dog and
> driving bolt will probably unbalance the rotating mass, and your lathe
> would otherwise be hopping all over the workbench -- or off it. :-)
OK.
> Then supporting it between centers is the right way to do the
> job. The OD of the shaft was turned based on those center holes, so
> supporting with the live center and turning should produce something
> concentric. It is up to you to stop at the right point for a good fit.
> And if you are going to be using just a setscrew -- no keyway -- mill a
> flat on the shaft when you have the diameter right. This is for the
> setscrew to press upon, so it does not raise burrs on the shaft and
> prevent the pulley from being removed at a later date.
>
> Oh yes -- while the shaft and rotor are in the lathe, use a file
> to turn a bevel on the shoulder left by turning down the shaft diameter.
> This will remove the burr which was left by the machining, and which
> would likely burr the bearing as you reassembled.
Ok.
> >> Looking at those -- it *looks* as though the pulley is a rather
> >> rough casting, bored out somewhat large, and then a bushing pressed in
> >> from the big end. (And that hollow at the big end may limit where
> >> you can put your setscrew. Measure the depth there vs how far to the
> >> center of the pulley grooves.
>
> > I measured the depth of the bore at 1-3/8" which is why I concluded
> > that a hole for a set screw can be put in the middle pulley step which
> > is within that distance.
>
> O.K. But probably the second step would be better -- it would
> be about half-way along the length of the bore.
For *single* set screw that's what I figured.
> > I'm having a difficult time putting the set screw back in. (I probably
> > have to pick up a better set of Allen keys)..
>
> Or perhaps *two* sets. What are the odds that the setscrew is
> metric?
Well since the drill press was made in Taiwan does that increase the
chance? :-)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPress3.jpg
> Ball-end Allen keys are very convenient for some things, but a
> straight-sided one is easier to use for starting a setscrew in the
> bottom of a groove.
I finally got it back in. :-)
> > "Key stock". Is that what it's called? (I thought that I'd just have
> > to get some square rod and mill it down).
>
> That is what key stock is -- square rod in the common key sizes.
> Likely a little oversized so you can file them down to a precise fit. :-)
Ok.
> Actually -- looking at the photos -- the motor mount slides on
> two pins which are secured by screws with flapping wings (common
> China/Taiwan import construction). Those slides need to be cleaned of
> rust and properly lubricated. And typically, there is a lever on the
> right side of the drill press -- but I don't see it on this. It
> normally runs a link to push or pull the motor during belt changes. And
> I don't see the scew you mention. But the motor does *not* pivot -- the
> entire mount slides in and out.
That was my bad choice of words. And the screws obviously secure the
motor in position by clamping onto the rods that slide in and out.
> > This is done with a screw below the belt-guard housing.
> >http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action...
> >http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action...
>
> Looking at the photos, I can tell you that this drill press was
> *not* designed to accept a motor of this size. It is massive overkill.
> This is fairly obvious from the side view photos, but even more so from
> the top view ones. Is that your pulley sitting about half way between
> the motor and the spindle? Or is it an idler pulley on a swinging arm
> to allow more speeds than the 5 listed on the front?
I'm surprised you found that pic. I didn't point to it because it
misleads the viewer due to the fact that the motor pulley just happens
to be sitting where an idler would be situated *if* my drill press had
one. Of course the size of the belt and the fact that the pulley,
which still had the wood dowel in it's bore, would be off center and a
give away. :-)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPress1.jpg
That's why I had taken another pic which you missed: :-)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DPHousing.jpg
> Anyway -- you have the motor slid as close to the column as can
> be done I think, and it is already close to where the edge of the pulley
> would rub on the belt guard when it is closed.
It would be close. The base of the pulley has a diameter of 2-7/8" and
the raised portion of the motor housing is 3" in diameter. (New pic):
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0191.jpg
> I hope the bearings are better than some of the external
> surfaces -- including the rust on the chuck.
Me too. :-) The motor itself spins nicely and quietly when power up,
but I'm not sure what would be considered normal for the drill press'
spindle. (At least there is no noise). The idea is to take it
completely apart and clean it. I've just been procrastinating because
I've never taken a drill press apart before.
I do have a gallon of WD-40 for cleaning, but was also considering the
vinegar/salt water option.
> You will need to clean off the rust on the column and the motor
> adjusters, and oil them. Looks like it stood out in the back yard for a
> few years. :-)
Boy, you hit that one on the nose. :-) I picked it and a table-less
band saw up a while back from a guy who had them both in his back
yard. I didn't know if he had just moved them there for me or they had
been sitting there for a while.
The band saw's blade was pretty rusted and the cast aluminum blade
guides pretty much fell apart.(Disintegrated).
> And I note that the spindle is a fixed Jacobs taper on the end
> (a JT-2), instead of having a Morse taper in the spindle. This limits
> your ability to use it for some tasks.
I expect light duty use. (And a lot of run-out). :-)
> Just out of curiosity -- what does the motor nameplate say about
> the horsepower? And what is the shaft RPM?
Ok. Let me pull up that pic.:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPressMotor2.jpg
> Don't! Get a smaller motor -- with a shaft which fits the
> current pulley. Be prepared to measure the shaft when you go out
> shopping for a used motor.
Will do.
> > Ha! If I could only figure out where the "right place" is. :-)
>
> Depends on where you are. Medium sized three-phase motors are
> often available from places which do heating/air-conditioning work, from
> when they pulled out industrial units to replace them with larger ones.
Well, my only option is a single phase motor. On top of that, the
wiring in my place is so old I have to remember never to turn on the
microwave at the same time as the convection oven. (Or I'll be making
a trip to the basement with a flashlight). :-)
> I sometimes find motors at hamfests. (Think a large electronic
> flea market). You might be able to find them at flea markets locally.
>
> New York City and environs are really an unknown to me.
>
> Do you have a local Craigslist?
>
> How about a Freecycle?
Probably. Nothing has come up on Craigslist yet. But I'll have to do
some more research. Thanks.
> >> > BTW. I see a similar pulley on eBay: 380210297514
>
> >> > Not that I'd buy it, but I'd have to make a collar. (Which I think
> >> > might be easier than boring if I found a tube with the right I.D.).
> >> > And it is larger than the pulley I have. Also, it has no key way or
> >> > set screw. (?)
>
> >> It may be an idler pulley, made for two ball bearing assemblies
> >> to be pressed into to allow it to spin freely.
>
> > Actually the auction says "spindle pulley", so I guess it would be a
> > lost cause either way.
>
> Well ... if you could make a bushing to fit it to the 5/8"
> shaft, and then drill and tap for a setscrew, it might be more
> appropriate to that motor size. But you would need to know the RPM of
> the motor -- with the larger pulley, the spindle speeds would likely be
> too high. (And they seldom are slow enough for the size chuck supplied
> when drilling steel. :-)
Well, I have my mini-mill for that. And considering the pulley I
presently have is at least almost too large for the housing *if paired
with that particular motor*, the even larger diameter one in that
eBay auction is definitely a no-no.
Perhaps I'll keep the motor for the band saw project.(If I ever get
back to it).
Thanks a lot. :-)
DoN. Nichols
[ ... turning motor shaft down ... ]
>> You will be doing your machining near the tailstock end, where
>> the live center is supporting the shaft.
>>
>> Probably run at one of the slower speeds, because the dog and
>> driving bolt will probably unbalance the rotating mass, and your lathe
>> would otherwise be hopping all over the workbench -- or off it. :-)
>
> OK.
>
>> Then supporting it between centers is the right way to do the
>> job. The OD of the shaft was turned based on those center holes, so
>> supporting with the live center and turning should produce something
>> concentric. It is up to you to stop at the right point for a good fit.
>> And if you are going to be using just a setscrew -- no keyway -- mill a
>> flat on the shaft when you have the diameter right. This is for the
>> setscrew to press upon, so it does not raise burrs on the shaft and
>> prevent the pulley from being removed at a later date.
>>
>> Oh yes -- while the shaft and rotor are in the lathe, use a file
>> to turn a bevel on the shoulder left by turning down the shaft diameter.
>> This will remove the burr which was left by the machining, and which
>> would likely burr the bearing as you reassembled.
>
> Ok.
[ ... ]
>> > I'm having a difficult time putting the set screw back in. (I probably
>> > have to pick up a better set of Allen keys)..
>>
>> Or perhaps *two* sets. What are the odds that the setscrew is
>> metric?
>
> Well since the drill press was made in Taiwan does that increase the
> chance? :-)
Yes -- assuming that the pulley was original to it. :-)
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPress3.jpg
Yep -- I saw that one.
>> Ball-end Allen keys are very convenient for some things, but a
>> straight-sided one is easier to use for starting a setscrew in the
>> bottom of a groove.
>
> I finally got it back in. :-)
Good!
>> > "Key stock". Is that what it's called? (I thought that I'd just have
>> > to get some square rod and mill it down).
>>
>> That is what key stock is -- square rod in the common key sizes.
>> Likely a little oversized so you can file them down to a precise fit. :-)
>
> Ok.
And it is a mild steel, so no great difficulty to tune to size
with a good file.
>> Actually -- looking at the photos -- the motor mount slides on
>> two pins which are secured by screws with flapping wings (common
>> China/Taiwan import construction). Those slides need to be cleaned of
>> rust and properly lubricated. And typically, there is a lever on the
>> right side of the drill press -- but I don't see it on this. It
>> normally runs a link to push or pull the motor during belt changes. And
>> I don't see the screw you mention. But the motor does *not* pivot -- the
>> entire mount slides in and out.
>
> That was my bad choice of words. And the screws obviously secure the
> motor in position by clamping onto the rods that slide in and out.
O.K. Not seeing the normal lever for tensioning the belt
before you lock the slides, you may have to take a large screwdriver and
use it as a lever to move the motor to the right point to tension things
properly.
>> > This is done with a screw below the belt-guard housing.
>> >http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action...
>> >http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/?action...
>>
>> Looking at the photos, I can tell you that this drill press was
>> *not* designed to accept a motor of this size. It is massive overkill.
>> This is fairly obvious from the side view photos, but even more so from
>> the top view ones. Is that your pulley sitting about half way between
>> the motor and the spindle? Or is it an idler pulley on a swinging arm
>> to allow more speeds than the 5 listed on the front?
>
> I'm surprised you found that pic. I didn't point to it because it
> misleads the viewer due to the fact that the motor pulley just happens
> to be sitting where an idler would be situated *if* my drill press had
> one.
Well ... those photos which you pointed to were something like
numbers 4 and 5, so I simply used the arrows to navigate to the other
images until I hit the end of the list or something which was not the
drill press. I could have continued, but didn't. I normally use wget
to grab the images directly, but this site was feeding me chunks of HTML
instead of the images when I did that, so I used the browser.
> Of course the size of the belt and the fact that the pulley,
> which still had the wood dowel in it's bore, would be off center and a
> give away. :-)
Off center is a normal condition for the idler, since it swings
on a fairly short arm.
What would be interesting is to put the belt on the supplied
pulley and the spindle pulley (middle step of both) and pull it tight to
see where the center of the pulley goes. Compare that to how close you
can get the motor to the head casting. And remember -- it has to move
even closer to the casting to relax the belt enough for you to change
steps.
Out of curiosity -- does the cover have a speed chart inside it?
Mine does -- a fairly complex one for a 16-speed setup.
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPress1.jpg
>
> That's why I had taken another pic which you missed: :-)
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DPHousing.jpg
That wasn't part of the grouping of similarly named images. And
some other image stopped me from going through the whole list of iamges.
(And lack of time. :-)
>> Anyway -- you have the motor slid as close to the column as can
>> be done I think, and it is already close to where the edge of the pulley
>> would rub on the belt guard when it is closed.
>
> It would be close. The base of the pulley has a diameter of 2-7/8" and
> the raised portion of the motor housing is 3" in diameter. (New pic):
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0191.jpg
And remember -- the motor has to slide probably an inch or so
out to tension the belt once you put the belt on the pulleys.
I just went down and looked at my drill press -- and it has a
3/4 HP motor -- same speed -- from the same manufacturer. But it is a
16-speed motor, and there is a lot more room in the motor shaft window
in the belt housing. Mine also has a crank to raise and lower the
table, a full floor standing height (this looks like a benchtop size),
and came with a 5/8" chuck -- too fast for a 5/8" drill bit in steel,
even with the best choice of belt settings.
>> I hope the bearings are better than some of the external
>> surfaces -- including the rust on the chuck.
>
> Me too. :-) The motor itself spins nicely and quietly when power up,
> but I'm not sure what would be considered normal for the drill press'
> spindle. (At least there is no noise). The idea is to take it
> completely apart and clean it. I've just been procrastinating because
> I've never taken a drill press apart before.
How does feeding the quill down feel? Among other things, you
should lubricate the spline through the center hole at the top of the
spindle. If you are lucky, the belt guard kept rain from getting in
there.
> I do have a gallon of WD-40 for cleaning, but was also considering the
> vinegar/salt water option.
For things like the column and the worktable, the vinegar/salt
would probably be less work, and more likely to provide a usable
surface. The WD-40 would also wire brushing, and likely emery paper to
clean off enough of the rust.
How tall is the column? That will determine whether you can find
a container long enough to allow it all to submerge at once. And
*don't* think of putting one end in at a time. This leads to etching at
the waterline.
>> You will need to clean off the rust on the column and the motor
>> adjusters, and oil them. Looks like it stood out in the back yard for a
>> few years. :-)
>
> Boy, you hit that one on the nose. :-) I picked it and a table-less
> band saw up a while back from a guy who had them both in his back
> yard. I didn't know if he had just moved them there for me or they had
> been sitting there for a while.
I think the latter.
> The band saw's blade was pretty rusted and the cast aluminum blade
> guides pretty much fell apart.(Disintegrated).
Aluminum? Perhaps Zamac (a zinc alloy often called "pot metal".
That tends to disintegrate when exposed to nasty conditions.
>> And I note that the spindle is a fixed Jacobs taper on the end
>> (a JT-2), instead of having a Morse taper in the spindle. This limits
>> your ability to use it for some tasks.
>
> I expect light duty use. (And a lot of run-out). :-)
What I was thinking about was things like replacing the chuck
with things like a tapping head. Mine is thread mounted on a Morse
taper 2 shank, which I can pop into the spindle in place of the one
which holds the chuck. (Also, I can put larger drills with Morse Taper
2 shanks directly in the spindle, instead of worrying about the chuck
having enough grip.
>> Just out of curiosity -- what does the motor nameplate say about
>> the horsepower? And what is the shaft RPM?
>
> Ok. Let me pull up that pic.:
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPressMotor2.jpg
Yep same HP, RPM and maker as my drill press has. (and likely
the same size) But too much for the size press you have.
>> Don't! Get a smaller motor -- with a shaft which fits the
>> current pulley. Be prepared to measure the shaft when you go out
>> shopping for a used motor.
>
> Will do.
O.K.
>> > Ha! If I could only figure out where the "right place" is. :-)
>>
>> Depends on where you are. Medium sized three-phase motors are
>> often available from places which do heating/air-conditioning work, from
>> when they pulled out industrial units to replace them with larger ones.
>
> Well, my only option is a single phase motor.
Well ... you *could* use a cheap three phase motor (say 3/4HP or
1HP) as an idler in a rotary converter -- but that would be a 240 VAC
motor, not a 120 VAC one. That would then allow you to run a smaller
three phase motor on the drill press. But -- if you don't have a 240
VAC outlet, that is not part of the game. :-)
> On top of that, the
> wiring in my place is so old I have to remember never to turn on the
> microwave at the same time as the convection oven. (Or I'll be making
> a trip to the basement with a flashlight). :-)
Ouch! How many fuses (or breakers) serve your place?
>> I sometimes find motors at hamfests. (Think a large electronic
>> flea market). You might be able to find them at flea markets locally.
>>
>> New York City and environs are really an unknown to me.
>>
>> Do you have a local Craigslist?
>>
>> How about a Freecycle?
>
> Probably. Nothing has come up on Craigslist yet. But I'll have to do
> some more research. Thanks.
O.K. Good Luck.
[ ... ]
>> > Actually the auction says "spindle pulley", so I guess it would be a
>> > lost cause either way.
>>
>> Well ... if you could make a bushing to fit it to the 5/8"
>> shaft, and then drill and tap for a setscrew, it might be more
>> appropriate to that motor size. But you would need to know the RPM of
>> the motor -- with the larger pulley, the spindle speeds would likely be
>> too high. (And they seldom are slow enough for the size chuck supplied
>> when drilling steel. :-)
>
> Well, I have my mini-mill for that. And considering the pulley I
> presently have is at least almost too large for the housing *if paired
> with that particular motor*, the even larger diameter one in that
> eBay auction is definitely a no-no.
O.K. -- Unless you cut out the back of the belt guard. (Not
really a good idea, of course. :-)
> Perhaps I'll keep the motor for the band saw project.(If I ever get
> back to it).
Good enough. It might work well for that.
Good Luck,
Denis G.
> On 2011-02-20, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Searcher7 wrote:
> > ...
> >> I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
> >> spinning shaft. :-)
> >> ...
>
> > I haven't kept up-to-date on this thread, so if this comment is now
> > irrelevant ... please just ignore it <G>
>
> > I once reduced a 7/8" motor shaft to 3/4" by grinding it. I powered up
> > the motor and put an angle grinder to it. I used a 7" grinder ... a
> > 4-1/2" one would have been pretty tedious. A file would be next to
> > impossible, endurance wise. I also trued it up with an air grinder held
> > in an x-y vise. A file might be used for the final truing.
>
> The grinder would get him below the keyway, which is what I was
> expecting to cause problems with the filing approach.
>
> But -- after viewing the photos that he posted links to -- the
> motor is grossly oversized for the drill press. He really would be
> better trading down to one of appropriate size. (Perhaps find someone
> who *needs* the larger motor on Craigslist or the like?)
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>
> --
> Remove oil spill source from e-mail
> (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
> --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
It looks a bit like this one:
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/44000-44999/44506.pdf
1/3 hp motor
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-21, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
> > Of course the size of the belt and the fact that the pulley,
> > which still had the wood dowel in it's bore, would be off center and a
> > give away. :-)
>
> Off center is a normal condition for the idler, since it swings
> on a fairly short arm.
>
> What would be interesting is to put the belt on the supplied
> pulley and the spindle pulley (middle step of both) and pull it tight to
> see where the center of the pulley goes. Compare that to how close you
> can get the motor to the head casting. And remember -- it has to move
> even closer to the casting to relax the belt enough for you to change
> steps.
The pulley would make it to a little past the center of the opening.
(Which doesn't seem to be enough).
> Out of curiosity -- does the cover have a speed chart inside it?
> Mine does -- a fairly complex one for a 16-speed setup.
Now that you mentioned it, yes:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DPSpeedChart.jpg
I drew up a copy with MsPaint:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPressSpeedChart.jpg
(I wasn't sure of the last number(2960) so I put a question mark next
to it).
> I just went down and looked at my drill press -- and it has a
> 3/4 HP motor -- same speed -- from the same manufacturer. But it is a
> 16-speed motor, and there is a lot more room in the motor shaft window
> in the belt housing. Mine also has a crank to raise and lower the
> table, a full floor standing height (this looks like a benchtop size),
> and came with a 5/8" chuck -- too fast for a 5/8" drill bit in steel,
> even with the best choice of belt settings.
I'll use this for wood (mostly).
> >> I hope the bearings are better than some of the external
> >> surfaces -- including the rust on the chuck.
>
> > Me too. :-) The motor itself spins nicely and quietly when power up,
> > but I'm not sure what would be considered normal for the drill press'
> > spindle. (At least there is no noise). The idea is to take it
> > completely apart and clean it. I've just been procrastinating because
> > I've never taken a drill press apart before.
>
> How does feeding the quill down feel? Among other things, you
> should lubricate the spline through the center hole at the top of the
> spindle. If you are lucky, the belt guard kept rain from getting in
> there.
The down feed is great.
(And I have to figure out how to take the spindle pulley off for
cleaning and lubrication).
> > I do have a gallon of WD-40 for cleaning, but was also considering the
> > vinegar/salt water option.
>
> For things like the column and the worktable, the vinegar/salt
> would probably be less work, and more likely to provide a usable
> surface. The WD-40 would also wire brushing, and likely emery paper to
> clean off enough of the rust.
>
> How tall is the column? That will determine whether you can find
> a container long enough to allow it all to submerge at once. And
> *don't* think of putting one end in at a time. This leads to etching at
> the waterline.
Yes.The distance from the floor to the bottom of the pulley housing is
about 25". But I have something large enough to fit the column in.
(One of those large plastic containers used for storage).
> >> You will need to clean off the rust on the column and the motor
> >> adjusters, and oil them. Looks like it stood out in the back yard for a
> >> few years. :-)
>
> > Boy, you hit that one on the nose. :-) I picked it and a table-less
> > band saw up a while back from a guy who had them both in his back
> > yard. I didn't know if he had just moved them there for me or they had
> > been sitting there for a while.
>
> I think the latter.
I agree.
> > The band saw's blade was pretty rusted and the cast aluminum blade
> > guides pretty much fell apart.(Disintegrated).
>
> Aluminum? Perhaps Zamac (a zinc alloy often called "pot metal".
> That tends to disintegrate when exposed to nasty conditions.
That's interesting. I'll have to look that up. I'll probably be making
blade guides out of Aluminum.(I already picked up some skate
bearings). At least the upper and lower drive wheels are in "like new"
condition.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Bandsawa.jpg
> >> And I note that the spindle is a fixed Jacobs taper on the end
> >> (a JT-2), instead of having a Morse taper in the spindle. This limits
> >> your ability to use it for some tasks.
>
> > I expect light duty use. (And a lot of run-out). :-)
>
> What I was thinking about was things like replacing the chuck
> with things like a tapping head. Mine is thread mounted on a Morse
> taper 2 shank, which I can pop into the spindle in place of the one
> which holds the chuck. (Also, I can put larger drills with Morse Taper
> 2 shanks directly in the spindle, instead of worrying about the chuck
> having enough grip.
I don't expect much in the way of accuracy with this drill press. But
for wood it is not as big a deal. (And I'll hold off on that Mortising
kit I came across).
> >> Depends on where you are. Medium sized three-phase motors are
> >> often available from places which do heating/air-conditioning work, from
> >> when they pulled out industrial units to replace them with larger ones.
>
> > Well, my only option is a single phase motor.
>
> Well ... you *could* use a cheap three phase motor (say 3/4HP or
> 1HP) as an idler in a rotary converter -- but that would be a 240 VAC
> motor, not a 120 VAC one. That would then allow you to run a smaller
> three phase motor on the drill press. But -- if you don't have a 240
> VAC outlet, that is not part of the game. :-)
My 240V printer has been running on a step-up converter for years. :-)
On top of that, the
> > wiring in my place is so old I have to remember never to turn on the
> > microwave at the same time as the convection oven. (Or I'll be making
> > a trip to the basement with a flashlight). :-)
>
> Ouch! How many fuses (or breakers) serve your place?
I believe two.
Only one outlet in this place can accommodate a ground prong. And
going by a little receptacle tester I have I don't think that one is
wired correctly. :-(
I'll have to get the landlord to do some re-wiring. But it'll probably
cost me.
Thanks.
Searcher7
DoN. Nichols
> On Feb 19, 10:14 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-02-20, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Searcher7 wrote:
>> > ...
>> >> I was tempted to just power up the motor and use a file on the
>> >> spinning shaft. :-)
>> >> ...
[ ... ]
>> But -- after viewing the photos that he posted links to -- the
>> motor is grossly oversized for the drill press. He really would be
>> better trading down to one of appropriate size. (Perhaps find someone
>> who *needs* the larger motor on Craigslist or the like?)
[ ... ]
> It looks a bit like this one:
> http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/44000-44999/44506.pdf
> 1/3 hp motor
Yes -- 1/3 HP, rather than the 3/4 HP he has (and which is the
supplied motor -- and same brand -- on my larger 16-speed floor standing
drill press.
You *might* be able to fit a 1/2 HP motor on it, but certainly
not the 3/4 HP which you have.
Hmm ... I wonder what HarbourFreight would charge for a
replacement motor? (You might have to prove that it originaly came
from Harbor Freight however. :-)
Interesting that the specs list five spindle speeds, but the
drawings only show a three-step pulley on each end.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
DoN. Nichols
>> On Feb 19, 10:14 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> > But -- after viewing the photos that he posted links to -- the
>> > motor is grossly oversized for the drill press. He really would be
>> > better trading down to one of appropriate size. (Perhaps find someone
>> > who *needs* the larger motor on Craigslist or the like?)
[ ... ]
>> It looks a bit like this one:http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/44000-44999/44506.pdf
>> 1/3 hp motor
>
> Actually it's this one:
> http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/AMT_4030_Drill_Press.pdf
Oh -- *this* explains it all. "Motor not supplied", so someone
got this and tried to scrounge a motor to fit it, but did not know what
he was doing.
I note that they do provide a way to remove the chuck from the
spindle -- allowing replacing it with something better -- and not likely
to be rusted inside. (How smoothly do the chuck jaws open and close.
You should be able to do it with your hand -- no key needed -- as long
as you aren't actually tightening on a drill bit -- or releasing a drill
bit.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
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Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-21, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 8:06 am, "Denis G." <guillemd53...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 19, 10:14 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> > But -- after viewing the photos that he posted links to -- the
> >> > motor is grossly oversized for the drill press. He really would be
> >> > better trading down to one of appropriate size. (Perhaps find someone
> >> > who *needs* the larger motor on Craigslist or the like?)
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> It looks a bit like this one:http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/44000-44999/44506.pdf
> >> 1/3 hp motor
>
> > Actually it's this one:
> >http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/AMT_4030_Drill_Press.pdf
>
> Oh -- *this* explains it all. "Motor not supplied", so someone
> got this and tried to scrounge a motor to fit it, but did not know what
> he was doing.
>
> I note that they do provide a way to remove the chuck from the
> spindle -- allowing replacing it with something better -- and not likely
> to be rusted inside. (How smoothly do the chuck jaws open and close.
> You should be able to do it with your hand -- no key needed -- as long
> as you aren't actually tightening on a drill bit -- or releasing a drill
> bit.
The first couple of times I only managed a couple of turns with the
key. But then it started to loosen up somewhat. (31 full revolutions
from completely closed to as open as I could get it). I can turn it
with my hand, by I wouldn't call it smooth.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DPChuck.jpg
It a JT#2-1/2 according to another link I found:
http://metalworking.com/Dropbox/AMT_4030_DrillPress.txt
So after a *major* cleaning and an *appropriate* motor it should be
good for something.
I really appreciate your help. I've learned a lot. And I'll keep my
eyes open for a 1/3hp and hope that the motor I already have is not
too large for the band saw. :-)
DoN. Nichols
>> On 2011-02-21, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> What would be interesting is to put the belt on the supplied
>> pulley and the spindle pulley (middle step of both) and pull it tight to
>> see where the center of the pulley goes. Compare that to how close you
>> can get the motor to the head casting. And remember -- it has to move
>> even closer to the casting to relax the belt enough for you to change
>> steps.
>
> The pulley would make it to a little past the center of the opening.
> (Which doesn't seem to be enough).
Of course that can be adjusted with a longer belt. But
depending on the motor shaft to base dimension, you probably could move
the motor mount enough to clear the belts for changing to a new step, or
to re-tighten it. I notice the manual has no mention of the lever which
I expect -- you are just expected to shove the motor back with one hand
as you tighten the locking (flapping wing) screws with the other.
>> Out of curiosity -- does the cover have a speed chart inside it?
>> Mine does -- a fairly complex one for a 16-speed setup.
>
> Now that you mentioned it, yes:
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DPSpeedChart.jpg
Terrible photo you know. :-) Of course that reflective metal
label material photographs badly anyway. :-) (But focusing would help,
which might need a flashlight pointed at the chart to help the camer to
autofocus.)
My chart is the same sort of material, but is a 4x4 grid, since
there are 16 speeds to cover. A letter to represent which belt groove
on the spindle side of the idler, and a number to represent which belt
groove on the motor side -- or perhaps the reverse. I'm not feeling
good enough to go downstairs and re-check my memory from a couple of
nights ago.
> I drew up a copy with MsPaint:
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPressSpeedChart.jpg
Much clearer. Print out a copy and keep it under plastic near
the drill press (once you have a motor on it).
> (I wasn't sure of the last number(2960) so I put a question mark next
> to it).
Well ... you *should* be able to convert the 60 Hz values to the
50 Hz values by dividing the RPM by 60, and multiplying by 50. But the
values from that don't agree. For example, the 1200 RPM 60 Hz, *should*
give 1000 RPM 50 Hz. But you don't really care about the 50 Hz speeds
anyway -- you are not in the UK where the power is 50 Hz, so you would
have to jump through hoops to feed it 50 Hz. :-)
And I suspect that the values shown are whatever standard value
from the handbooks which they got from the actual pulley steps, It might
be that the slip angle is different with 50 Hz, which could affect the
unloaded and loaded RPMs.
>> I just went down and looked at my drill press -- and it has a
>> 3/4 HP motor -- same speed -- from the same manufacturer. But it is a
>> 16-speed motor, and there is a lot more room in the motor shaft window
>> in the belt housing. Mine also has a crank to raise and lower the
>> table, a full floor standing height (this looks like a benchtop size),
>> and came with a 5/8" chuck -- too fast for a 5/8" drill bit in steel,
>> even with the best choice of belt settings.
>
> I'll use this for wood (mostly).
O.K. And certainly probably reasonable up to 1/4" drills in
steel, and 1/2" in wood. Maybe 3/8" (without bothering to calculate
SFM) in aluminum. Maybe all the way to 1/2" in aluminum.
Let's see -- slowest 60 Hz speed is 860 RPM. 1/2" would be
112.5 SFM. 3/8" would be 84 SFM, and 1/4" would be 56.28 RPM.
112 SFM ... hmm.
O.K. According to the Jorgensen metals handbook/catalog, looking at
steels:
12L14 300 SFM (a really nice steel to machine).
1018 125 SFM (a common mild steel)
4140 110 SFM (A hardenable alloy)
Down to
H-11 49 SFM (apparently a very strong alloy).
Of the hardenable alloys, all the figures are for annealed
metal, not hardened.
[ ... ]
>> How does feeding the quill down feel? Among other things, you
>> should lubricate the spline through the center hole at the top of the
>> spindle. If you are lucky, the belt guard kept rain from getting in
>> there.
>
> The down feed is great.
Great!
> (And I have to figure out how to take the spindle pulley off for
> cleaning and lubrication).
If yours is like mine -- just drop oil down the center of it,
and it will reach the spline (and some will leak out the bottom).
But -- according to the manual which you pointed to, there is a
single setscrew in that pulley too.
[ ... ]
>> How tall is the column? That will determine whether you can find
>> a container long enough to allow it all to submerge at once. And
>> *don't* think of putting one end in at a time. This leads to etching at
>> the waterline.
>
> Yes.The distance from the floor to the bottom of the pulley housing is
> about 25". But I have something large enough to fit the column in.
> (One of those large plastic containers used for storage).
O.K. Go for the vinegar/salt mix -- or the washing soda and
electric derusting.
As soon as you pull it out, wash it off in very hot water, and
wipe dry on the surfaces which matter. As soon as dry, rub in some
waylube (Vactra No. 2) which will be a good column lubricant.
*Never* put assembled parts in the de-rusting solutions. If
there are dissimilar metals in the assembly they will turn into
batteries and attack one of the two metals. (Springs or hardened metals
are more likely to be attacked than unhardened -- as someone who tried
to derust some calipers discovered when the spring dissolved away. (It
was someone who at least used to post here.)
[ ... ]
>> > The band saw's blade was pretty rusted and the cast aluminum blade
>> > guides pretty much fell apart.(Disintegrated).
>>
>> Aluminum? Perhaps Zamac (a zinc alloy often called "pot metal".
>> That tends to disintegrate when exposed to nasty conditions.
>
> That's interesting. I'll have to look that up. I'll probably be making
> blade guides out of Aluminum.(I already picked up some skate
> bearings). At least the upper and lower drive wheels are in "like new"
> condition.
Good.
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/Bandsawa.jpg
I remember that and won't bother re-visiting it.
[ ... ]
>> What I was thinking about was things like replacing the chuck
>> with things like a tapping head. Mine is thread mounted on a Morse
>> taper 2 shank, which I can pop into the spindle in place of the one
>> which holds the chuck. (Also, I can put larger drills with Morse Taper
>> 2 shanks directly in the spindle, instead of worrying about the chuck
>> having enough grip.
>
> I don't expect much in the way of accuracy with this drill press. But
> for wood it is not as big a deal. (And I'll hold off on that Mortising
> kit I came across).
Check how much you can shake the quill side to side when it is
up, and when it is as far down as you can get it.
[ ... ]
> My 240V printer has been running on a step-up converter for years. :-)
You *might* be able to cheat and get 240 VAC if you can find two
outlets which are fed different phases of the 120 VAC. Connect an AC
voltmeter between the hot side of each of two outlets. (Find which one
is hot by measuring compared to the screw which holds the trim plate on.
One side should measure the full 120 VAC (+/- a bit) to the screw, and
the other should measure practically no voltage to it.
So -- half a power cable plugged into one side and half into the
other should give you 240 VAC. But be very *careful* with that. If you
do that, unplug whatever you have plugged into the 240 VAC outlet
connected to that before you unplug either of the split power cords.
Until both are unplugged, the pins of the one which is unplugged can be
hot.
> On top of that, the
>> > wiring in my place is so old I have to remember never to turn on the
>> > microwave at the same time as the convection oven. (Or I'll be making
>> > a trip to the basement with a flashlight). :-)
>>
>> Ouch! How many fuses (or breakers) serve your place?
>
> I believe two.
If two -- you *may* have the full 240 VAC available as above --
depending on how they are wired. If they are breakers, and are side by
side (one above the other), the probably are picking up two phases
(actually two sides of the split center grounded 120 VAC feeds). If one
is on one side of the box and the other on the other side (talking about
breakers here, not fuses), you may not have what you want. If two are
one above the other, but there is another breaker or breaker space
between them, you won't be able to pull this trick.
Keep a flashlight on your belt, since you are likely to take out
both breakers at once if something goes wrong. :-)
> Only one outlet in this place can accommodate a ground prong. And
> going by a little receptacle tester I have I don't think that one is
> wired correctly. :-(
Likely someone just shoved a 3-pin outlet into the wall box so
they would not have to cut off the ground pin. And this suggests that
even your outlet boxes are not grounded, so it would require *full*
re-wiring -- tearing up walls and running new wires. And probably
tearing up walls of the people downstairs from you too. :-)
You know -- if the place is old enough, you might even have the
wiring running through old gas illumination pipes. :-)
> I'll have to get the landlord to do some re-wiring. But it'll probably
> cost me.
You may want to simply live with it. Your pipes should be well
grounded, given the ages of things -- no plastic pipe, so you could get
a ground connection under the kitchen sink or somewhere similar.
Gerald Miller
<Sear...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ouch! How many fuses (or breakers) serve your place?
>
>I believe two.
>
>Only one outlet in this place can accommodate a ground prong. And
>going by a little receptacle tester I have I don't think that one is
>wired correctly. :-(
>
>I'll have to get the landlord to do some re-wiring. But it'll probably
>cost me.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Darren Harris
>Staten Island, New York.
So much for property standards!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
DoN. Nichols
> On Feb 21, 10:34 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> I note that they do provide a way to remove the chuck from the
>> spindle -- allowing replacing it with something better -- and not likely
>> to be rusted inside. (How smoothly do the chuck jaws open and close.
>> You should be able to do it with your hand -- no key needed -- as long
>> as you aren't actually tightening on a drill bit -- or releasing a drill
>> bit.
>
> The first couple of times I only managed a couple of turns with the
> key. But then it started to loosen up somewhat. (31 full revolutions
> from completely closed to as open as I could get it). I can turn it
> with my hand, by I wouldn't call it smooth.
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DPChuck.jpg
Take it off the spindle (and coat the socket and spindle nose
with oil to keep them from rusting), open the chuck, and pour in a light
oil. Every so often, pick it up and run it through its range. Perhaps
fill it with WD-40 and pour it out once a week to carry out as much of
the loosened rust as possible.
> It a JT#2-1/2 according to another link I found:
> http://metalworking.com/Dropbox/AMT_4030_DrillPress.txt
Ouch! At first, I thought that someone had read off the chuck:
JT2 -- 1/2
Meaning Jacobs taper 2, 1/2" capacity, but this sounds like they mean
it. That is seriously going to limit your choices of replacement
chucks. Maybe the thing to do is to pull the spindle, mount it in a
lathe, and using a toolpost grinder, grind the taper down toa match for
a JT-2 (which at lest is slightly smaller than what you have.) But it
will be tricky setting up the feed to precisely the angle needed, and
made more difficult by the fact that each of these have a different
taper-per-inch value (sort of like More Tapers do.)
> So after a *major* cleaning and an *appropriate* motor it should be
> good for something.
Yes -- better if you can find a replacement chuck with a
JT-2-1/2.
> I really appreciate your help. I've learned a lot. And I'll keep my
> eyes open for a 1/3hp and hope that the motor I already have is not
> too large for the band saw. :-)
O.K. Measure the mounting spot for the motor on the saw and see
whether it could be made to fit.
Good luck with that.
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-21, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
> My chart is the same sort of material, but is a 4x4 grid, since
> there are 16 speeds to cover. A letter to represent which belt groove
> on the spindle side of the idler, and a number to represent which belt
> groove on the motor side -- or perhaps the reverse. I'm not feeling
> good enough to go downstairs and re-check my memory from a couple of
> nights ago.
>
> > I drew up a copy with MsPaint:
> >http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/DrillPr...
>
> Much clearer. Print out a copy and keep it under plastic near
> the drill press (once you have a motor on it).
That's the intention. Thanks.
> > (I wasn't sure of the last number(2960) so I put a question mark next
> > to it).
>
> Well ... you *should* be able to convert the 60 Hz values to the
> 50 Hz values by dividing the RPM by 60, and multiplying by 50. But the
> values from that don't agree. For example, the 1200 RPM 60 Hz, *should*
> give 1000 RPM 50 Hz. But you don't really care about the 50 Hz speeds
> anyway -- you are not in the UK where the power is 50 Hz, so you would
> have to jump through hoops to feed it 50 Hz. :-)
>
> And I suspect that the values shown are whatever standard value
> from the handbooks which they got from the actual pulley steps, It might
> be that the slip angle is different with 50 Hz, which could affect the
> unloaded and loaded RPMs.
I guess one would have to take their numbers with a grain of salt. And
since I have a digital Tachometer... Too bad recommended horse power
isn't stated. (That's probably why I'm sitting here with an over-sized
motor).
> > I'll use this for wood (mostly).
>
> O.K. And certainly probably reasonable up to 1/4" drills in
> steel, and 1/2" in wood. Maybe 3/8" (without bothering to calculate
> SFM) in aluminum. Maybe all the way to 1/2" in aluminum.
>
> Let's see -- slowest 60 Hz speed is 860 RPM. 1/2" would be
> 112.5 SFM. 3/8" would be 84 SFM, and 1/4" would be 56.28 RPM.
>
> 112 SFM ... hmm.
>
> O.K. According to the Jorgensen metals handbook/catalog, looking at
> steels:
>
> 12L14 300 SFM (a really nice steel to machine).
> 1018 125 SFM (a common mild steel)
> 4140 110 SFM (A hardenable alloy)
>
> Down to
>
> H-11 49 SFM (apparently a very strong alloy).
>
> Of the hardenable alloys, all the figures are for annealed
> metal, not hardened.
My mill will "hopefully" allow for more accuracy than the drill press
in metals. :-)
> >> How does feeding the quill down feel? Among other things, you
> >> should lubricate the spline through the center hole at the top of the
> >> spindle. If you are lucky, the belt guard kept rain from getting in
> >> there.
>
> > The down feed is great.
>
> Great!
>
> > (And I have to figure out how to take the spindle pulley off for
> > cleaning and lubrication).
>
> If yours is like mine -- just drop oil down the center of it,
> and it will reach the spline (and some will leak out the bottom).
>
> But -- according to the manual which you pointed to, there is a
> single setscrew in that pulley too.
No set screw on this pulley. And going by the PDF link the set screw
on the motor pulley is in the wrong place. :-)
> O.K. Go for the vinegar/salt mix -- or the washing soda and
> electric derusting.
>
> As soon as you pull it out, wash it off in very hot water, and
> wipe dry on the surfaces which matter. As soon as dry, rub in some
> waylube (Vactra No. 2) which will be a good column lubricant.
>
> *Never* put assembled parts in the de-rusting solutions. If
> there are dissimilar metals in the assembly they will turn into
> batteries and attack one of the two metals. (Springs or hardened metals
> are more likely to be attacked than unhardened -- as someone who tried
> to derust some calipers discovered when the spring dissolved away. (It
> was someone who at least used to post here.)>
Thanks. Would it be ok that they are in the same solution but not
touching?
> >> What I was thinking about was things like replacing the chuck
> >> with things like a tapping head. Mine is thread mounted on a Morse
> >> taper 2 shank, which I can pop into the spindle in place of the one
> >> which holds the chuck. (Also, I can put larger drills with Morse Taper
> >> 2 shanks directly in the spindle, instead of worrying about the chuck
> >> having enough grip.
>
> > I don't expect much in the way of accuracy with this drill press. But
> > for wood it is not as big a deal. (And I'll hold off on that Mortising
> > kit I came across).
>
> Check how much you can shake the quill side to side when it is
> up, and when it is as far down as you can get it.
Did you mean trying to move the chuck horizontally at both ends of the
down feed?
> > My 240V printer has been running on a step-up converter for years. :-)
>
> You *might* be able to cheat and get 240 VAC if you can find two
> outlets which are fed different phases of the 120 VAC. Connect an AC
> voltmeter between the hot side of each of two outlets. (Find which one
> is hot by measuring compared to the screw which holds the trim plate on.
> One side should measure the full 120 VAC (+/- a bit) to the screw, and
> the other should measure practically no voltage to it.
>
> So -- half a power cable plugged into one side and half into the
> other should give you 240 VAC. But be very *careful* with that. If you
> do that, unplug whatever you have plugged into the 240 VAC outlet
> connected to that before you unplug either of the split power cords.
> Until both are unplugged, the pins of the one which is unplugged can be
> hot.
Way too much for me. but thanks. Unfortunately outside of the kitchen
only one room has more than one outlet, and it's not the (small) tool
room. :(
On top of that, the
> >> > wiring in my place is so old I have to remember never to turn on the
> >> > microwave at the same time as the convection oven. (Or I'll be making
> >> > a trip to the basement with a flashlight). :-)
>
> >> Ouch! How many fuses (or breakers) serve your place?
>
> > I believe two.
>
> If two -- you *may* have the full 240 VAC available as above --
> depending on how they are wired. If they are breakers, and are side by
> side (one above the other), the probably are picking up two phases
> (actually two sides of the split center grounded 120 VAC feeds). If one
> is on one side of the box and the other on the other side (talking about
> breakers here, not fuses), you may not have what you want. If two are
> one above the other, but there is another breaker or breaker space
> between them, you won't be able to pull this trick.
>
> Keep a flashlight on your belt, since you are likely to take out
> both breakers at once if something goes wrong. :-)
I'll have to learn more about basic electricity as it applies to
household current. http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0209.jpg
> > Only one outlet in this place can accommodate a ground prong. And
> > going by a little receptacle tester I have I don't think that one is
> > wired correctly. :-(
>
> Likely someone just shoved a 3-pin outlet into the wall box so
> they would not have to cut off the ground pin. And this suggests that
> even your outlet boxes are not grounded, so it would require *full*
> re-wiring -- tearing up walls and running new wires. And probably
> tearing up walls of the people downstairs from you too. :-)
This buidling was built in 1931. Everything, including the outlets,
"look" old, and have multiple layers of old paint over them. I think
the electrical wiring has that "cloth" sheath. (?)
> You know -- if the place is old enough, you might even have the
> wiring running through old gas illumination pipes. :-)
Well the building is not *that* old. :-)
> > I'll have to get the landlord to do some re-wiring. But it'll probably
> > cost me.
>
> You may want to simply live with it. Your pipes should be well
> grounded, given the ages of things -- no plastic pipe, so you could get
> a ground connection under the kitchen sink or somewhere similar.
Now I'm curious. I'll have to look into the details of the wiring
here.
BTW. I picked up those pulleys today:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0192.jpg
They have set screws and would probably slide onto the 5/8" motor
shaft with a little effort(and a mallet).
The small one Browning AZ15) because part of the step floor has
disintegrated away.(I think it is made out of that Zamac material you
mentioned).
The step of the larger Craftsman(M-200-B-103) pulley, which has a "2"
stamped on it, is 1.375" in diameter.
Back to my motor search. :-)
DoN. Nichols
> On Feb 21, 11:29 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> And I suspect that the values shown are whatever standard value
>> from the handbooks which they got from the actual pulley steps, It might
>> be that the slip angle is different with 50 Hz, which could affect the
>> unloaded and loaded RPMs.
>
> I guess one would have to take their numbers with a grain of salt.
They are only a rough guess -- as the speed decreases with load
(more slip -- the rotor motion falling behind the rotating magnetic
field which drives it -- which is why you get something like 1720 RPM
from the motor instead of 1800 which a 4-pole motor would give if the
rotor were a permanent magnet instead of generating rotor fields from
the induced currents.
And if you are lucky, the printed speeds indicate the highest
speed you can expect with that belt setting, so you won't burn out bits
from overspeed.
> And
> since I have a digital Tachometer... Too bad recommended horse power
> isn't stated. (That's probably why I'm sitting here with an over-sized
> motor).
Probably so.
[ ... speeds vs workpiece materials ... ]
> My mill will "hopefully" allow for more accuracy than the drill press
> in metals. :-)
As long as you spot drill or center drill first -- or only have
split point drill bits, which don't wander the way chisel point bits do.
[ ... ]
>> If yours is like mine -- just drop oil down the center of it,
>> and it will reach the spline (and some will leak out the bottom).
>>
>> But -- according to the manual which you pointed to, there is a
>> single setscrew in that pulley too.
>
> No set screw on this pulley. And going by the PDF link the set screw
> on the motor pulley is in the wrong place. :-)
Yes -- they show it on the middle step.
[ ... electrolytic or salt/vinegar derusting ... ]
>> *Never* put assembled parts in the de-rusting solutions. If
>> there are dissimilar metals in the assembly they will turn into
>> batteries and attack one of the two metals. (Springs or hardened metals
>> are more likely to be attacked than unhardened -- as someone who tried
>> to derust some calipers discovered when the spring dissolved away. (It
>> was someone who at least used to post here.)>
>
> Thanks. Would it be ok that they are in the same solution but not
> touching?
Yes -- as long as they aren't touching something else which can
conduct. You could hang them by some kind of string from a bar above
the tank. A good choice might be weed whipper string -- sold nylon, so
it won't soak up the juice you have the parts in.
[ ... ]
>> > I don't expect much in the way of accuracy with this drill press. But
>> > for wood it is not as big a deal. (And I'll hold off on that Mortising
>> > kit I came across).
>>
>> Check how much you can shake the quill side to side when it is
>> up, and when it is as far down as you can get it.
>
> Did you mean trying to move the chuck horizontally at both ends of the
> down feed?
Horizontally -- both side-to-side and fore-and-aft. That will
be your worst case play. If the chuck isn't particularly bad on
centering, you won't have the drill bit tip moving in circles.
[ ... how to get 240 VAC from two 120 VAC outlets snipped ... ]
> Way too much for me. but thanks. Unfortunately outside of the kitchen
> only one room has more than one outlet, and it's not the (small) tool
> room. :(
I see long cables running around the apartment. :-)
[ ... ]
>> >> Ouch! How many fuses (or breakers) serve your place?
>>
>> > I believe two.
>>
>> If two -- you *may* have the full 240 VAC available as above --
>> depending on how they are wired. If they are breakers, and are side by
>> side (one above the other), the probably are picking up two phases
>> (actually two sides of the split center grounded 120 VAC feeds). If one
>> is on one side of the box and the other on the other side (talking about
>> breakers here, not fuses), you may not have what you want. If two are
>> one above the other, but there is another breaker or breaker space
>> between them, you won't be able to pull this trick.
>>
>> Keep a flashlight on your belt, since you are likely to take out
>> both breakers at once if something goes wrong. :-)
>
> I'll have to learn more about basic electricity as it applies to
> household current. http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0209.jpg
O.K. Those are circuit breakers, not fuses (good) and quite new
compared to your description of what you have in the apartment.
The upper-right-hand corner of the box -- the two breakers with
a screw between them, and a bar labeled "MAIN" connecting the two
handles is a 240 VAC breaker --- the input power. Since you have only
your breakers in there, I would guess that the wiring to that "Main"
breaker comes from a separate meter for your apartment only.
The two blue-handled ones are individual 120 VAC breakers. I
*think* (but am not sure) that the breakers connect to the two sides of
the 240 VAC (center tapped, so one of them and neutral gives 120 VAC)
are connected in this pattern (1 is one side of the 240 VAC, 2 is the
other side:
1 2 MAIN-1
X
2 1 MAIN-2
X
APT 2 1 2 APT 1
X
2 1
X
1 2
where the 'X' means the connections cross over diagonally.
O.K. Looking at the label in the photograph, yes, that is how
it is connected, so you do have a full 240 VAC going up to the
apartment.
The full service rating for the breaker box is 100 A, so you
should have enough to run any machines which you can get up to the
apartment. :-)
So I *believe* that this means that you *do* have both sides
brought up to the apartment, so if you *really* needed 240 VAC, you
could run long cords to two outlets to make the adaptor.
And the breakers, at least, are designed to accept either copper
or aluminum wires. *Hope* that they don't have aluminum wiring in that
place. If it is the original wiring, it should be copper. Only if it
was re-wired during a fairly short period would it be likely to have
aluminum wiring.
And I can't make out the current rating of each breaker.
Normally it is on the end of the handle, but that is sufficiently out of
focus so I can't tell.
And the fact that you have your own breaker box, with so few
spots occupied may mean that provisions have been made to run new wiring
to the apartment without too much difficulty. All you need is another
double breaker like the on the MAIN comes in on, and the right wire and
connector upstairs, and you have 240 VAC legally. (The thing I
described is a temporary work-around and kluge -- not for regular use.)
>> > Only one outlet in this place can accommodate a ground prong. And
>> > going by a little receptacle tester I have I don't think that one is
>> > wired correctly. :-(
>>
>> Likely someone just shoved a 3-pin outlet into the wall box so
>> they would not have to cut off the ground pin. And this suggests that
>> even your outlet boxes are not grounded, so it would require *full*
>> re-wiring -- tearing up walls and running new wires. And probably
>> tearing up walls of the people downstairs from you too. :-)
>
> This buidling was built in 1931. Everything, including the outlets,
> "look" old, and have multiple layers of old paint over them. I think
> the electrical wiring has that "cloth" sheath. (?)
Probably tar-soaked cloth to keep it from rotting away over the
years.
>> You know -- if the place is old enough, you might even have the
>> wiring running through old gas illumination pipes. :-)
>
> Well the building is not *that* old. :-)
O.K. I didn't know. :-)
>> > I'll have to get the landlord to do some re-wiring. But it'll probably
>> > cost me.
>>
>> You may want to simply live with it. Your pipes should be well
>> grounded, given the ages of things -- no plastic pipe, so you could get
>> a ground connection under the kitchen sink or somewhere similar.
>
> Now I'm curious. I'll have to look into the details of the wiring
> here.
>
> BTW. I picked up those pulleys today:
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0192.jpg
>
> They have set screws and would probably slide onto the 5/8" motor
> shaft with a little effort(and a mallet).
>
> The small one Browning AZ15) because part of the step floor has
> disintegrated away.(I think it is made out of that Zamac material you
> mentioned).
>
> The step of the larger Craftsman(M-200-B-103) pulley, which has a "2"
> stamped on it, is 1.375" in diameter.
O.K. Next to find a belt which fits both the spindle pulley and
your new pulleys.
> Back to my motor search. :-)
About that -- someone local is offering some 1/3 HP motor
(locally) for $3.00. I've posted asking whether he would be willing to
sell with shipping -- and if so, I'll get the two of you talking.
I also asked the diameter of the shaft, and whether it has
a keyway or a flat.
Enjoy,
DoN. Nichols
> On 2011-02-23, Searcher7 <Sear...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Back to my motor search. :-)
>
> About that -- someone local is offering some 1/3 HP motor
> (locally) for $3.00. I've posted asking whether he would be willing to
> sell with shipping -- and if so, I'll get the two of you talking.
>
> I also asked the diameter of the shaft, and whether it has
> a keyway or a flat.
Bad news -- they are motors whose bearings will not work well
with the motor on end, and oilers which demand the shaft to be
horizontal -- and the shaft diameter is 5/8".
Sorry,
Searcher7
> >> Check how much you can shake the quill side to side when it is
> >> up, and when it is as far down as you can get it.
>
> > Did you mean trying to move the chuck horizontally at both ends of the
> > down feed?
>
> Horizontally -- both side-to-side and fore-and-aft. That will
> be your worst case play. If the chuck isn't particularly bad on
> centering, you won't have the drill bit tip moving in circles.
Well in that case it's as solid as a rock. There is no movement at all
on the horizontal plain.
> >> If two -- you *may* have the full 240 VAC available as above --
> >> depending on how they are wired. If they are breakers, and are side by
> >> side (one above the other), the probably are picking up two phases
> >> (actually two sides of the split center grounded 120 VAC feeds). If one
> >> is on one side of the box and the other on the other side (talking about
> >> breakers here, not fuses), you may not have what you want. If two are
> >> one above the other, but there is another breaker or breaker space
> >> between them, you won't be able to pull this trick.
>
> >> Keep a flashlight on your belt, since you are likely to take out
> >> both breakers at once if something goes wrong. :-)
>
> > I'll have to learn more about basic electricity as it applies to
> > household current.http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_020...
>
> O.K. Those are circuit breakers, not fuses (good) and quite new
> compared to your description of what you have in the apartment.
>
> The upper-right-hand corner of the box -- the two breakers with
> a screw between them, and a bar labeled "MAIN" connecting the two
> handles is a 240 VAC breaker --- the input power. Since you have only
> your breakers in there, I would guess that the wiring to that "Main"
> breaker comes from a separate meter for your apartment only.
There are for of those boxes. And a meter above each box. (For the
four apartments on the right half side of the building).
> The two blue-handled ones are individual 120 VAC breakers. I
> *think* (but am not sure) that the breakers connect to the two sides of
> the 240 VAC (center tapped, so one of them and neutral gives 120 VAC)
> are connected in this pattern (1 is one side of the 240 VAC, 2 is the
> other side:
>
> 1 2 MAIN-1
> X
> 2 1 MAIN-2
> X
> APT 2 1 2 APT 1
> X
> 2 1
> X
> 1 2
>
> where the 'X' means the connections cross over diagonally.
>
> O.K. Looking at the label in the photograph, yes, that is how
> it is connected, so you do have a full 240 VAC going up to the
> apartment.
>
> The full service rating for the breaker box is 100 A, so you
> should have enough to run any machines which you can get up to the
> apartment. :-)
Once I finish fixing them, I'd like to be able to run eight of my
arcade games at the same time, but I don't know if that is plausible
the front room.(They are rated to pull about 3 amps each).
Even as I type this I notice a quick/temporary dimming/brightening of
the light in the room I'm in. It happens occasionally, but after a
while it's relegated to the sub-conscious and you don't notice it, but
this subject of conversation has made me notice it again. (I'm the
only one in the apartment and I have no idea what causes this).
On a single circuit breaker there are 5 outlets and four light
fixtures between the bathroom, kitchen, dining room and rear hallway.
One kitchen outlet is iffy and the bathroom outlet(which was actually
replaced several years ago) doesn't work.
Calculating from the wattage of the microwave and convection ovens I
get 19.5 amps together. But I cannot have them on at the same time.
On the other outlet in the dinging room, but it is not on the same
breaker as it's brother and the ceiling fixture. It's part of an
outlet in the front room, and therefore on a different breaker which
would cover three other outlets and four ceiling fixtures.(And I
wouldn't bet that a single outlet in this apartment is *really*
grounded. Even those which can accommodate all three prongs). :-)
> So I *believe* that this means that you *do* have both sides
> brought up to the apartment, so if you *really* needed 240 VAC, you
> could run long cords to two outlets to make the adaptor.
>
> And the breakers, at least, are designed to accept either copper
> or aluminum wires. *Hope* that they don't have aluminum wiring in that
> place. If it is the original wiring, it should be copper. Only if it
> was re-wired during a fairly short period would it be likely to have
> aluminum wiring.
>
> And I can't make out the current rating of each breaker.
> Normally it is on the end of the handle, but that is sufficiently out of
> focus so I can't tell.
Well, without going back down there here is one more of the dozen or
so pics I took: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0238.jpg
> And the fact that you have your own breaker box, with so few
> spots occupied may mean that provisions have been made to run new wiring
> to the apartment without too much difficulty. All you need is another
> double breaker like the on the MAIN comes in on, and the right wire and
> connector upstairs, and you have 240 VAC legally. (The thing I
> described is a temporary work-around and kluge -- not for regular use.)
This is interesting. But since it is not plausible for me to upgrade
to anything else that would be 3 phase(ie: Bigger, heavier, noisier)
while living in this apartment would it really be worth it to
seriously discuss this with the landlord?
> > BTW. I picked up those pulleys today:
> >http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_019...
>
> > They have set screws and would probably slide onto the 5/8" motor
> > shaft with a little effort(and a mallet).
>
> > The small one Browning AZ15) because part of the step floor has
> > disintegrated away.(I think it is made out of that Zamac material you
> > mentioned).
>
> > The step of the larger Craftsman(M-200-B-103) pulley, which has a "2"
> > stamped on it, is 1.375" in diameter.
>
> O.K. Next to find a belt which fits both the spindle pulley and
> your new pulleys.
>
> > Back to my motor search. :-)
>
> About that -- someone local is offering some 1/3 HP motor
> (locally) for $3.00. I've posted asking whether he would be willing to
> sell with shipping -- and if so, I'll get the two of you talking.
>
> I also asked the diameter of the shaft, and whether it has
> a keyway or a flat.
>
> Bad news -- they are motors whose bearings will not work well
> with the motor on end, and oilers which demand the shaft to be
> horizontal -- and the shaft diameter is 5/8".
Ok. I'll keep looking. But thanks for trying. :-)
DoN. Nichols
> On Feb 23, 10:37 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Horizontally -- both side-to-side and fore-and-aft. That will
>> be your worst case play. If the chuck isn't particularly bad on
>> centering, you won't have the drill bit tip moving in circles.
>
> Well in that case it's as solid as a rock. There is no movement at all
> on the horizontal plain.
Great! This alone makes it worth fixing up. (Granted, the
Taiwanese and Chinese castings are a bit shy on metal, so things like
the table will flex with a heavy drilling force, causing the hole to be
at an angle -- so you want to start with a smaller drill (about the
diameter of the chisel point on the next drill size up) and then work up
in steps so you don't have to lean on the feed lever to get through the
workpiece.
[ ... ]
>> O.K. Those are circuit breakers, not fuses (good) and quite new
>> compared to your description of what you have in the apartment.
>>
>> The upper-right-hand corner of the box -- the two breakers with
>> a screw between them, and a bar labeled "MAIN" connecting the two
>> handles is a 240 VAC breaker --- the input power. Since you have only
>> your breakers in there, I would guess that the wiring to that "Main"
>> breaker comes from a separate meter for your apartment only.
>
> There are for of those boxes. And a meter above each box. (For the
> four apartments on the right half side of the building).
O.K. And I suspect another four on the other side.
[ ... ]
>> The full service rating for the breaker box is 100 A, so you
>> should have enough to run any machines which you can get up to the
>> apartment. :-)
>
> Once I finish fixing them, I'd like to be able to run eight of my
> arcade games at the same time, but I don't know if that is plausible
> the front room.(They are rated to pull about 3 amps each).
No way -- José! Not on one breaker. I said before that I can't
read the current rating of the breakers, and your lastest jpeg did not
help. *But* -- normal breaker for outlets is rated at 15A, some (which
require heavier duty outlets) is 20A. I don't know what gauge wiring is
going up to the apartment, but I sincerely doubt that it is enough to
handle even 20A. And your eight arcade games add up to 24A between
them. And this is counting without the ceiling lights run from the same
breaker. :-) Mount Compact Fluorescent lamps and you will reduce the
total current draw -- but still not all eight machines at once.
> Even as I type this I notice a quick/temporary dimming/brightening of
> the light in the room I'm in. It happens occasionally, but after a
> while it's relegated to the sub-conscious and you don't notice it, but
> this subject of conversation has made me notice it again. (I'm the
> only one in the apartment and I have no idea what causes this).
Heavy loads being turned on and off -- likely in the same
building, or in another building nearby. It could be an electric water
heater switching on and off, or a fan motor in a heating system (if you
have forced air heating and cooling (if any)), or a disposal in another
apartment, or a washing machine or dryer, or even your own refrigerator
cycling.
If there are any industrial buildings nearby, those could be
switching on and off heavy loads.
Right now (sort of spring-like weather) our feed to our house is
at 119 VAC. Mid summer, when the air conditioning is working -- not
just here but at other houses fed from the same transformer -- it runs
closer to 116 VAC, and sometimes as low as 114 VAC. Peak that I've seen
is about 121 VAC. (I've got an expanded-scale AC voltmeter sitting on
top of my computer within easy view. It's scale goes from 100 to 140
VAC, with the center being 120 VAC in red as the nominal standard.
> On a single circuit breaker there are 5 outlets and four light
> fixtures between the bathroom, kitchen, dining room and rear hallway.
> One kitchen outlet is iffy and the bathroom outlet(which was actually
> replaced several years ago) doesn't work.
>
> Calculating from the wattage of the microwave and convection ovens I
> get 19.5 amps together. But I cannot have them on at the same time.
Even subtracting the overhead lamps, that says that the breaker
is likely 15A not 20A -- supporting other deductions and suppositions
above.
> On the other outlet in the dinging room, but it is not on the same
> breaker as it's brother and the ceiling fixture. It's part of an
> outlet in the front room, and therefore on a different breaker which
> would cover three other outlets and four ceiling fixtures.(And I
> wouldn't bet that a single outlet in this apartment is *really*
> grounded. Even those which can accommodate all three prongs). :-)
Right!
>> So I *believe* that this means that you *do* have both sides
>> brought up to the apartment, so if you *really* needed 240 VAC, you
>> could run long cords to two outlets to make the adaptor.
>>
>> And the breakers, at least, are designed to accept either copper
>> or aluminum wires. *Hope* that they don't have aluminum wiring in that
>> place. If it is the original wiring, it should be copper. Only if it
>> was re-wired during a fairly short period would it be likely to have
>> aluminum wiring.
>>
>> And I can't make out the current rating of each breaker.
>> Normally it is on the end of the handle, but that is sufficiently out of
>> focus so I can't tell.
>
> Well, without going back down there here is one more of the dozen or
> so pics I took: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_0238.jpg
And cropping that to the left-hand breaker, and rotating it and
enlarging it I read:
Bryant
BR 115 (I think)
Type ?R
CU 10-14
AL 8-12
(the last two cover the gauge ranges for either copper or aluminum wire
which can fit it and be "safely" used with it.)
The handle has a stylized 'B' (for Bryant) on the end, and the
"ON" visible to show it is switched on.
From what a bit of web searching shows, Bryant breakers are
available with color coded handles to show what current rating each is,
but I can't find the actual chart of color vs current rating on the
web. The Bryant page shows me things like central air conditioning
systems, not breakers. :-(
It *might* have the rating printed on the side -- or you could
go to an electrical supply store (or likely Home Depot's electrical
department) to find out what current a blue or turquoise handle means.
I *did* discover that they were also available with the standard black
handles -- and those might have the trip current listed on the end of
the handle.
O.K. The main breakers do have their rating on the ends of the
handles -- 100A -- so you should be able to get more power up there if
there is an easy way to run the cables needed. (Even if each outlet
individually had wires down to the breaker box -- you could install more
breakers to split the load between breakers.) However -- if all the
wires are joined at the apartment, and run down to the breaker box, this
might be a very expensive fix, involving tearing out wallboard to
gain access to the wiring.
>> And the fact that you have your own breaker box, with so few
>> spots occupied may mean that provisions have been made to run new wiring
>> to the apartment without too much difficulty. All you need is another
>> double breaker like the on the MAIN comes in on, and the right wire and
>> connector upstairs, and you have 240 VAC legally. (The thing I
>> described is a temporary work-around and kluge -- not for regular use.)
>
> This is interesting. But since it is not plausible for me to upgrade
> to anything else that would be 3 phase(ie: Bigger, heavier, noisier)
> while living in this apartment would it really be worth it to
> seriously discuss this with the landlord?
How likely is the landlord to object to the tools which you
already have there? What kind of floors? If carpet or hardwood, he
will likely object to the metal chips which can get ground into the
floor.
Hmm ... is it possible to set up some of the tools in the
basement -- and run them from new breakers in the box? That would be
easier to do -- if you could trust things to not disappear, or to be
used without your presence.
[ ... ]
>> About that -- someone local is offering some 1/3 HP motor
>> (locally) for $3.00. I've posted asking whether he would be willing to
>> sell with shipping -- and if so, I'll get the two of you talking.
[ ... ]
>> Bad news -- they are motors whose bearings will not work well
>> with the motor on end, and oilers which demand the shaft to be
>> horizontal -- and the shaft diameter is 5/8".
>
> Ok. I'll keep looking. But thanks for trying. :-)
You're welcome.
Good Luck,
Wild_Bill
pics with a digital camera if desired.
If the shaft is rusty, clean it up first with some shinin' cloth or
equivalent.
The end bells (case ends) should be marked with a file notch or prick punch
just to make re-assembly easier.. the power cord and oilers, etc (if
equipped) will then be in the same orientation as before.
There aren't any parts in these types of motors that will pop out and fly
away, only an occassional shim washer that may fall on the floor, if not
paying attention.
Remove one end bell (after removing the end-to-end case screws, and remove
the rotor.. it's that easy.
The shaft will cut fairly easily, although there will be some irregularity
due to the interrupted cut from the keyway slot.
Taking very slight finish cuts will generally correct the irregularity.
Re-assembly of these motors is also fairly simple. Add some oil to the felt
pads if the motor has the sleeve type bearings.
Put the rotor back in, and position the end bell for assembly, aligning the
mark. The bell may require some pressure to seat it in the case, and
removing any sharp edges from the mating surfaces will generally make
re-assembly very easy. Apply some candle/crayon wax or dry bar soap as a
lube and push the bell into the case.
Install the case screws and snug them a little, then begin to tighten them
gradually, crossing the the case diameter with each subsequent screw/nut, a
couple of turns each until the end bells are fully seated.
Spin the shaft by hand, and if the rotor doesn't coast a little, use a
little percussive tuning to align the bearings with the shaft for nearly
perfect alignment, by thumping the end bells with a chunk-o-wood, then
rechecking the rotor spin/coast.
When the rotor coasts, indicating very good alignment, finish tightening the
case screws.
Forget about the keyway since the pulley doesn't have one.. fill it with a
section of key stock (or other piece of steel or brass stock that fits the
slot) that's been filed down to the shaft diameter, but with a flat spot for
the setscrew to bite on.
Use a better/high quality setscrew (with an end that will bite/seat securely
in the piece of key stock) of an appropriate length that will engage all of
the threads in the pulley.
A drop or two of medium loctite/threadlocker on the setscrew will likely be
worthwhile.
Filing the shaft to size wouldn't be difficult if one could fabricate a
fixture with front and rear roller guides that straddle the shaft to prevent
filing the shaft off-center or tapered.
I've seen such single-roller guides as lathe attachments in old lathe
books.. which were apparently intended to keep the file flat/parallel to the
workpiece surface (spindle center axis), not for filing to a specific
diameter.
This sort of fixture would then need to be rigidly attached to the motor
base to attain the desired results.
It would be far less effort to disassemble the motor and turn the shaft on a
lathe either between centers (if needed for the shaft length), or chucked at
the back end (with a protective wrap of aluminum flashing, for example, to
prevent marring the bearing surface) with the output shaft centered at the
tailstock end.
Absolute precision isn't required on a low speed drill press motor shaft.
It's not likely that one will ever encounter a precision ground shaft on a
general purpose, utility-type motor.
As for the subject of smaller motors.. most fractional HP AC induction
motors (not including universal AC/DC types) are generally about the same
size as far as shaft to mounting surface. The rotors are longer in higher HP
ratings, but the cases are often the same diameter size.
Shaft sizes change with HP ratings.. it's not very common to see a 1/4 HP
motor with a 5/8" (but sometimes a 1/2") shaft.
The entire process of machining the motor shaft in a lathe and mounting the
finished motor with pulley, would probably only take an hour, and likely
less time for many experienced home shop metalworking types.
The only small issue with using this motor as intended would be that it may
be worthwhile to add a fiber or smooth thrust washer on the back end shaft,
since the motor will be oriented in shaft-up vertical position.
It wouldn't be required for motors with ball bearings, but may prevent
startup/shutdown noises in sleeve-bearing type motors.
A properly selected size of a single ball bearing placed in the closed back
end bell shaft bearing pocket (with a small dollop of grease) could also
take care of the issue.
Note: the shaft's end play shouldn't be reduced to zero.. an improvised
thrust bearing should only give the back end of the shaft something to rest
on.
--
WB
.........
"Searcher7" <Sear...@mail.con2.com> wrote in message
news:cab32cfa-ff58-4010...@u17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>I decided to get back to putting together an old table top drill press
> that had never been used. I proceeded to connect the AC and the pulley
> to the motor shaft, only to find out that the pulley has an I.D. of
> 1/2" and the motor shaft has O.D. of 5/8". (This explains why the
> previous owner never finished it).
>
> Outside of trying to find another pulley set I was wondering if I
> should look into machining the present motor pulley by boring the
> 1-1/2" I.D. long from 1/2" diameter to 5/8" diameter.
>
> Also, the pulley has a set screw, and the motor shaft has a key-way.
> The problem is that the set screw *may* be too small for the key-way,
> in which case I'd also have to re-drill for a larger set screw.
>
> And all this after I figure out whether this would be best done on a
> lathe or a mill, and then how to work hold for both operations.
>
> I'd appreciated any advice on whether a project like this is
> plausible, or should I just keep my eyes open for a pulley set that
> fits.
>
> Thanks.
Searcher7
> On 2011-02-26, Searcher7 <Search...@mail.con2.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 23, 10:37 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> Horizontally -- both side-to-side and fore-and-aft. That will
> >> be your worst case play. If the chuck isn't particularly bad on
> >> centering, you won't have the drill bit tip moving in circles.
>
> > Well in that case it's as solid as a rock. There is no movement at all
> > on the horizontal plain.
>
> Great! This alone makes it worth fixing up. (Granted, the
> Taiwanese and Chinese castings are a bit shy on metal, so things like
> the table will flex with a heavy drilling force, causing the hole to be
> at an angle -- so you want to start with a smaller drill (about the
> diameter of the chisel point on the next drill size up) and then work up
> in steps so you don't have to lean on the feed lever to get through the
> workpiece.
The table seems pretty rock solid. (But I have had access to many
drill presses). I wouldn't be able to lean hard enough to make the
table flex.
> > Once I finish fixing them, I'd like to be able to run eight of my
> > arcade games at the same time, but I don't know if that is plausible
> > the front room.(They are rated to pull about 3 amps each).
>
> No way -- Jos ! Not on one breaker. I said before that I can't
> read the current rating of the breakers, and your lastest jpeg did not
> help. *But* -- normal breaker for outlets is rated at 15A, some (which
> require heavier duty outlets) is 20A. I don't know what gauge wiring is
> going up to the apartment, but I sincerely doubt that it is enough to
> handle even 20A. And your eight arcade games add up to 24A between
> them. And this is counting without the ceiling lights run from the same
> breaker. :-) Mount Compact Fluorescent lamps and you will reduce the
> total current draw -- but still not all eight machines at once.
Ok. I did some checking and two or three of my games can pull 3amps
max. and the other five vary between 1 and 1.5. Considering one should
stay around 2/3rds and definitely not exceed 80% of the breakers
capacity all eight would still be too much. (I'd have to runa a long
extention cord to stay within parameters).
> > Even as I type this I notice a quick/temporary dimming/brightening of
> > the light in the room I'm in. It happens occasionally, but after a
> > while it's relegated to the sub-conscious and you don't notice it, but
> > this subject of conversation has made me notice it again. (I'm the
> > only one in the apartment and I have no idea what causes this).
>
> Heavy loads being turned on and off -- likely in the same
> building, or in another building nearby. It could be an electric water
> heater switching on and off, or a fan motor in a heating system (if you
> have forced air heating and cooling (if any)), or a disposal in another
> apartment, or a washing machine or dryer, or even your own refrigerator
> cycling.
I forgot about the refridgerator. :-)
> Right now (sort of spring-like weather) our feed to our house is
> at 119 VAC. Mid summer, when the air conditioning is working -- not
> just here but at other houses fed from the same transformer -- it runs
> closer to 116 VAC, and sometimes as low as 114 VAC. Peak that I've seen
> is about 121 VAC. (I've got an expanded-scale AC voltmeter sitting on
> top of my computer within easy view. It's scale goes from 100 to 140
> VAC, with the center being 120 VAC in red as the nominal standard.
Oh yeah. AC would be a must with eight games running in the summer
months. But that's an extreme case scenario anyway. I probably will
only need 4 games on at a time. (Unless I have an arcade party with a
few people over). :-)
> > On a single circuit breaker there are 5 outlets and four light
> > fixtures between the bathroom, kitchen, dining room and rear hallway.
> > One kitchen outlet is iffy and the bathroom outlet(which was actually
> > replaced several years ago) doesn't work.
>
> > Calculating from the wattage of the microwave and convection ovens I
> > get 19.5 amps together. But I cannot have them on at the same time.
>
> Even subtracting the overhead lamps, that says that the breaker
> is likely 15A not 20A -- supporting other deductions and suppositions
> above.
Hmmm. In that case the breaker doesn't trip as fast as it should. The
last couple of times I forgot and had bothte microwave and the
convection oven on at the same time it was probably as much as 5
minutes before everything went out.
> >> So I *believe* that this means that you *do* have both sides
> >> brought up to the apartment, so if you *really* needed 240 VAC, you
> >> could run long cords to two outlets to make the adaptor.
>
> >> And the breakers, at least, are designed to accept either copper
> >> or aluminum wires. *Hope* that they don't have aluminum wiring in that
> >> place. If it is the original wiring, it should be copper. Only if it
> >> was re-wired during a fairly short period would it be likely to have
> >> aluminum wiring.
>
> >> And I can't make out the current rating of each breaker.
> >> Normally it is on the end of the handle, but that is sufficiently out of
> >> focus so I can't tell.
>
> > Well, without going back down there here is one more of the dozen or
> > so pics I took:http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/IMG_023...
>
> And cropping that to the left-hand breaker, and rotating it and
> enlarging it I read:
>
> Bryant
> BR 115 (I think)
> Type ?R
> CU 10-14
> AL 8-12
> (the last two cover the gauge ranges for either copper or aluminum wire
> which can fit it and be "safely" used with it.)
>
> The handle has a stylized 'B' (for Bryant) on the end, and the
> "ON" visible to show it is switched on.
I'm glad it's not Federal Pacific. :-)
> From what a bit of web searching shows, Bryant breakers are
> available with color coded handles to show what current rating each is,
> but I can't find the actual chart of color vs current rating on the
> web. The Bryant page shows me things like central air conditioning
> systems, not breakers. :-(
>
> It *might* have the rating printed on the side -- or you could
> go to an electrical supply store (or likely Home Depot's electrical
> department) to find out what current a blue or turquoise handle means.
> I *did* discover that they were also available with the standard black
> handles -- and those might have the trip current listed on the end of
> the handle.
Outside of the 100 imprinted on the main, the blue breaker switches
have 15 on each one.
> O.K. The main breakers do have their rating on the ends of the
> handles -- 100A -- so you should be able to get more power up there if
> there is an easy way to run the cables needed. (Even if each outlet
> individually had wires down to the breaker box -- you could install more
> breakers to split the load between breakers.) However -- if all the
> wires are joined at the apartment, and run down to the breaker box, this
> might be a very expensive fix, involving tearing out wallboard to
> gain access to the wiring.
> > This is interesting. But since it is not plausible for me to upgrade
> > to anything else that would be 3 phase(ie: Bigger, heavier, noisier)
> > while living in this apartment would it really be worth it to
> > seriously discuss this with the landlord?
>
> How likely is the landlord to object to the tools which you
> already have there? What kind of floors? If carpet or hardwood, he
> will likely object to the metal chips which can get ground into the
> floor.
My landlord has seen all the machines I have. Tools as well as games.
But I'm definitely pushing it.
And the "tool room" has a beat up brown linoleum floor. :-)
(When my landlord first saw this drill press three years ago he
conveyed his surprise at how "heavy duty" it was).
> Hmm ... is it possible to set up some of the tools in the
> basement -- and run them from new breakers in the box? That would be
> easier to do -- if you could trust things to not disappear, or to be
> used without your presence.
Not really. The basement is more of a storage room. There is a closet
with stairs that lead from my apartment all the way down to the
basement. This is where I have to run the work light before I go down
there.
Anyway I just brought up my little Black & Decker 7-1/2" band saw.
Since it is obsolete it looks like this may also be a project. :-)
Thanks.
Searcher7
Thanks.
I won't have to take the motor apart any time soon because I'll be
looking for a smaller one for the drill press, but have copied you for
future reference. (I think I'll use the motor I have for my band saw
project).
Thanks again.
Wild_Bill
garage sales. Used split-phase fractional HP motors are somewhat abundant,
and after some cleaning and a little oil, they usually work fine IME,
(painting optional).
For a drill press, you wouldn't absolutely need one that utilizes a
capacitor for capacitor Start (the hump on the case, usually), and that way
you can avoid the odds of a failed capacitor.
Motor Start capacitors aren't expensive, but sometimes just another expense.
It would probably be worthwhile to avoid appliance motors (washer, dryer,
furnace etc) since they sometimes have unusual wiring jumpering that may not
be easily found for older models. These types of appliance motors are
usually easily identified as they often have lots of ventilation holes
around the case, and often utilize a cradle mounting base.
General purpose utility/replacement motors are usually best suited to
mounting on a machine.. Dayton, Century, Marathon and other domestic U.S.
made models are typically good choices for machine motors.. with the type of
case you'd want, having the mounting "foot" welded to the case.
These types of motors are typically intended for horizontal use, so you may
need to consider the thrust washer/shim mentioned earlier for vertical use
on a DP.
By checking the motor data label, one can find some useful info.. ball
bearing, RPM, Voltage(s), and whether the motor is reversible.. some are
only wired for a single direction of rotation, so you'd want a CW clockwise
rotation for a DP (CW viewed from the shaft end).
It's probably worthwhile to avoid PSC type motors for drill press use, and
they can be recognized by having a capacitor value listed on the spec/data
label.. such as 10uF or MF, or mF (a low value number from about 4 to 10).
The PSC types are better suited to fans, blowers etc.
If you can find a suitable motor size with the correct shaft size, and the
shaft just has a flat instead of a keyway, that will make your pulley
installation simple.
--
WB
.........
"Searcher7" <Sear...@mail.con2.com> wrote in message
news:4ea30d0b-0774-411d...@n16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
jamesja...@gmail.com
I ask because I believe that 10 speeds on a bike are totally unnecessary.
Thanks.
Larry Jaques
wrote:
>I've come across some pulleys with the correct bore diameter. Can anyone tell me if it is ideal to have 5 step pulley drill press, or is a lower number more desirable?
that, a 5-step pulley should be OK.
>I ask because I believe that 10 speeds on a bike are totally unnecessary.
electrified.
--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
John B.
with the large sheave on the top and the other on the bottom giving a
5 step speed range :-)
As for a bicycle, 10 speeds on the flat may well be unnecessary but
when you get to the hills you may want even more :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Jim Wilkins
news:rqosrblrgrh4jir47...@4ax.com...
> ...................
> with the large sheave on the top and the other on the bottom giving
> a
> 5 step speed range :-)
>
> As for a bicycle, 10 speeds on the flat may well be unnecessary but
> when you get to the hills you may want even more :-)
> --
> cheers,
>
> John B.
I printed and laminated a spreadsheet showing the RPM and cutting
speed in SFM of common tool diameters for the six belt positions on my
Clausing. Its designer chose 180, 350, 600, 1000, 1900 and 3250 RPM.
It's usually at 600 RPM which is slow enough to cut mild steel with up
to 1/2" tools and not too inconveniently low for shallow holes with
small bits. 180 RPM allows flycutting cast iron and hole saws up to 2"
(with the belt loosened), 3250 RPM is good for milling narrow slots in
aluminum. S&D drills from 9/16" to 1" run at 350 RPM. It's a real 700
Lb milling machine but I use it mostly for drilling.
--jsw
whit3rd
> Can anyone tell me if it is ideal to have 5 step pulley drill press, or is a lower number more desirable?
speed is very important sometimes.
Winding springs, all five speeds are too fast.
Putting an 0.040" hole in chrome-nickel superalloy, all five speeds are too slow.
Jim Wilkins
news:0385f156-1f1c-4bc5...@googlegroups.com...
> ....
> are too slow.
--jsw
John B.
wrote:
multiplies the number of speeds. See http://tinyurl.com/gwuj3v8
which is quite useful.
--
cheers,
John B.
Jim Wilkins
tee slot, which might be easier to retrofit than a pivot shaft but is
difficult to adjust because it tilts from free play when loosened and
tightening the clamping knob on top pulls it upright and changes the
belt tension.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/index.html
--jsw
jamesja...@gmail.com
But are there any foreseeable problems using a 1/2" chuck pulley and a 5/8" motor pulley in the drill press?
jamesja...@gmail.com
Larry Jaques
wrote:
>On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:44:58 PM UTC-4, jamesja...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Ok, obviously the more steps the better.
>>
>> But are there any foreseeable problems using a 1/2" chuck pulley and a 5/8" motor pulley in the drill press?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Darren Harris
>> Staten Island, New York.
>
>I settled on a 5=step aluminum pulley for the motor.
did you buy one (less satisfying), Darren?
--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.
--Andrew Johnson
jamesja...@gmail.com
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT), jamesja...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:44:58 PM UTC-4, jamesja...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Ok, obviously the more steps the better.
> >>
> >> But are there any foreseeable problems using a 1/2" chuck pulley and a 5/8" motor pulley in the drill press?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Darren Harris
> >> Staten Island, New York.
> >
> >I settled on a 5=step aluminum pulley for the motor.
>
> So, did you end up turning it yourself (more satisfying) on a lathe or
> did you buy one (less satisfying), Darren?
Larry Jaques
>On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 1:22:24 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT), jamesja...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:44:58 PM UTC-4, jamesja...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> Ok, obviously the more steps the better.
>> >>
>> >> But are there any foreseeable problems using a 1/2" chuck pulley and a 5/8" motor pulley in the drill press?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Darren Harris
>> >> Staten Island, New York.
>> >
>> >I settled on a 5=step aluminum pulley for the motor.
>>
>> So, did you end up turning it yourself (more satisfying) on a lathe or
>> did you buy one (less satisfying), Darren?
>
>Actually I won one on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222250636823
jamesja...@gmail.com
Larry Jaques
>On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:35:54 -0700 (PDT), jamesja...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 1:22:24 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT), jamesja...@gmail.com
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:44:58 PM UTC-4, jamesja...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> Ok, obviously the more steps the better.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But are there any foreseeable problems using a 1/2" chuck pulley and a 5/8" motor pulley in the drill press?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Darren Harris
>> >> >> Staten Island, New York.
>> >> >
>> >> >I settled on a 5=step aluminum pulley for the motor.
>> >>
>> >> So, did you end up turning it yourself (more satisfying) on a lathe or
>> >> did you buy one (less satisfying), Darren?
>> >
>> >Actually I won one on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222250636823
>>
>> IOW, you bought one from an eBay vendor for $20.80. OK.
>>
>> --
>> The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.
>>
>> --Andrew Johnson
>
>It was actually the cheapest 5-step pulley on Ebay. :-)
freebie. How's it working?
jamesja...@gmail.com
Gunner Asch
boat though. Might work ok on granite with the right media
Pretty good machine for grinding fiberglass Quickly
Gunner
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
jamesja...@gmail.com
I received it along with the pulley from the same Ebay seller.
Gunner Asch
high speed abrasive machine spinning 4000 rpm. Or you will have
"angel wings" all over the wood work. Just a suggestion.
Powder coat removal?
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/store/p/1005-B17-Industrial-Liquid-Stripper-5-Gal.aspx
Best shit in the world for removing powder coating. Works pretty well
on many paints as well
jamesja...@gmail.com
I'm actually searching for a way to cover/fill-in the multitude of small to tiny dings before I get the coin doors powder-coated again.
I'm assuming one of the Bondo products is best for this.
Gunner Asch
significantly better. If you only have a limited amount of powder
coat to remove..try the Aircraft Remover..but if you need to do large
amounts...the B17 is "it". I dont know where to get it commercially
in quarts however. I get mine from a powdercoating shop in quart cans.
They use it for fixing mistakes. Shrug
>I'm actually searching for a way to cover/fill-in the multitude of small to tiny dings before I get the coin doors powder-coated again.
by itself. Its not..not like anodizing.
>I'm assuming one of the Bondo products is best for this.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Darren Harris
>Staten Island, New York.
Larry Jaques
wrote:
>>> Powder coat removal?
>>>
>>> http://www.columbiacoatings.com/store/p/1005-B17-Industrial-Liquid-Stripper-5-Gal.aspx
>>>
>>> Best shit in the world for removing powder coating. Works pretty well
>>> on many paints as well
>>
>>Thanks a lot. (Is that the same as Rus-Oleum Aircraft remover?). If I'm lucky the Automotive place may sand blast first without charging a mint.
>
>B17 is ...hummm...think of it as Magnumized Rust Oleum. Works
>significantly better. If you only have a limited amount of powder
>coat to remove..try the Aircraft Remover..but if you need to do large
>amounts...the B17 is "it". I dont know where to get it commercially
>in quarts however. I get mine from a powdercoating shop in quart cans.
>They use it for fixing mistakes. Shrug
enviro and skin, but even tougher on multiple coats of paint. The B17
sounds like good stuff, with 45% content.
>>I'm actually searching for a way to cover/fill-in the multitude of small to tiny dings before I get the coin doors powder-coated again.
>
>Powder coating will fill a significant amount of those small dings all
>by itself. Its not..not like anodizing.
--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
Pete Keillor
<snip>
> Thanks a lot. (Is that the same as Rus-Oleum Aircraft remover?). If I'm
> lucky the Automotive place may sand blast first without charging a mint.
>
> I'm actually searching for a way to cover/fill-in the multitude of small
> to tiny dings before I get the coin doors powder-coated again.
>
> I'm assuming one of the Bondo products is best for this.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.
filler. Powder coatings are usually pretty thick anyway.
Pete Keillor
DoN. Nichols
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:05:21 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Powder coat removal?
> Methylene chloride the -only- type of stripper to use. Hard on the
> enviro and skin, but even tougher on multiple coats of paint. The B17
> sounds like good stuff, with 45% content.
friend (who had no sense of smell -- the stuff stinks) was pouring a
little into a glass ampoule in prepration to seal it and use it as a
small stink bomb (this was in college), and a drip got away from him in
a windowsill. It was about 10 inches above the surface, and by the time
my eyes caught up with it, it had stripped back the paint for about a
5/16" circle -- pretty much instantaneous. :-)
I don't know what kind of hazards are associated with it, but I
would certainly not use it indoors. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Jim Wilkins
news:slrnnvrdlv.6e...@Katana.d-and-d.com...
DoN. Nichols
> "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnnvrdlv.6e...@Katana.d-and-d.com...
>> On 2016-10-11, Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:05:21 -0700, Gunner Asch
>>> <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Powder coat removal?
[ ... ]
>> friend (who had no sense of smell -- the stuff stinks) was pouring a
>> little into a glass ampoule in prepration to seal it and use it as a
>> small stink bomb (this was in college), and a drip got away from him
>> in
>> a windowsill. It was about 10 inches above the surface, and by the
>> time
>> my eyes caught up with it, it had stripped back the paint for about
>> a
>> 5/16" circle -- pretty much instantaneous. :-)
>>
>> I don't know what kind of hazards are associated with it, but I
>> would certainly not use it indoors. :-)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridine
Thanks! As nasty as I susp[ected.