File sharpening..

[Phil Kangas]

Sure is quiet in here right now. Ever bitch
about your favorite file getting hopelessly
plugged up with something? This happened
to my favorite six inch fine tooth file. Usually
I have good luck using my cleaner, a wood
handle with a dowel pin in it and a short
chunk of copper tube with a flat end to scrape
out the crap. No go this time. So, I used a
carbide scriber to scrape out every tooth
and WOW did it work! File cuts better
than new! Perhaps this is of use to you?

[amdx]

Nope, been there, done that.
I've used a little pick, and sometimes something to tap on the pick.
A good, sharp file is so good to use.
Mikek

[gerald...@yahoo.ca]

Could be that the carbide burnished the teeth as well???
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

[Ed Huntress]

It probably turned the tooth edges up, after digging out the clogs.
I've used the tip of my wood-scraper burnisher the turn the edges of
file teeth up after I've skated them over some hard steel.

--
Ed Huntress

[Phil Kangas]

<gerald...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:s0pbha9nm5kq2udsh...@4ax.com...

That's exactly what happened... ;>)}

[jlpserv...@gmail.com]

Best way to clean or renew a file is to totally degrease it.. Then soak it in an acid solution..

files dull because in use the top edge of the tooth forms a burr.. Usually a slightly flat spot on the top of the tooth profile..

Degreasing and the acid soak will remove that burr and restore a sharper edge..

File by nature are disposable tools.. Usually offering 2 to 3 sharpenings before they are useless.. Of course this depends on materials being filed..

Files also like any high quality tool should be used in a progressive manner so the cutting edge can form a stonger tooth profile.. . Ideally cutting the softer materials in use and then working up to cutting steels and such..

Basically there is a whole process.. Anyhow the method I have explained above is what happened when the files or rasps are sent in for a professional sharpening..

[Terry Coombs]

And having used acid-etched files , IMO they're junk . In the cabinet shop
we used files to finish the edges of formica countertops and such . One of
the managers I worked under thought it was a good money-saving idea . Until
the people who had to use those files told him to get new files or get
lynched . Take proper care of a file and it will last . When it's worn out
it'll make a nice knife .

--
Snag

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:12:27 -0500, "Terry Coombs" <snag...@msn.com>
wrote:

I can't tell you how many people I've seen abuse files. They press
down hard both on the fore and back strokes, rounding the teeth on
every pass. It's heartbreaking to listen to, let alone see. I saw
one lady use a file to drive a brad. WHAP WHAP WHAP is what I'd like
to have done to her. But I've heard it's bad form (and jailable) to
Gibbs-slap a person in the general populace, no matter how much they
need it. <sigh>

--
In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless,
but planning is indispensable. --Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Tom Gardner]

Don't forget to chalk your files, especially new ones!

[Rex]

I've always heard this, but never done it. Do you just run regular writing chalk over the file and leave it in the grooves? What good does that do - prevents metal from imbedding in those grooves?

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Rex <burkh...@gmail.com> fired this volley in news:e8dfcc73-9e70-4c72-
9229-183...@googlegroups.com:

> prevents metal from imbedding in those grooves?

Primarily, it prevents it from 'wedging' in the grooves, and cuts down on
any possible adhesion between the two metals.

A good, heavy cutting oil will do the same.

The secret to maintaining a fine-cut file is to KEEP it clean, not to clean
it out. If you must clean it, get a good file card to do that.

LLoyd

[Terry Coombs]

Just make sure the wires of the card aren't harder than the file . We got
some in the cabinet shop that ruined a bunch of good files - didn't help
that most of the guys working there were idiots that didn't know how to use
one properly .

--
Snag

[Ed Huntress]

Oil is OK if you're filing something softer than half-hard steel, and
if you can keep plenty of pressure on the file. Otherwise, the reason
that chalk is recommended over oil is because a chalked file is much
less likely to skate.

One skate on moderately hard steel, and your file can be a goner.

--
Ed Huntress

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in
news:072ghapv3q4m5cj4e...@4ax.com:

> Otherwise, the reason
> that chalk is recommended over oil is because a chalked file is much
> less likely to skate.
>
> One skate on moderately hard steel, and your file can be a goner.
>

My personal opinion is that what you mention has to do with technique and
the condition of the file, not the lubricant.

A lubricant does not affect the point-pressure contact between a raked
cutting edge and the metal being worked. All the lubricant does is
carry off heat, and prevent 'pinning'.

If a file is SHARP to begin with, and sufficient pressure is being
applied to make it cut the way it was intended to, oil won't inhibit
that, even on harder metals (so long as they're not 'hard' compared to
the file itself).

LLoyd

[Ed Huntress]

Ok. You're going to find that your opinion on this is opposed by
almost every experienced metalworker who's commented about it for the
past 200 years. And the old ones used files instead of milling
machines. They really knew files and filing.

I doubt if there is enough consistency in pressure applied by hand for
the "point-pressure contact" to be an issue. The slightest let-up in
pressure is going to have that edge facing an oil film.

Anyway, whatever works for you. I never used oil for my first 40 years
or so, being told never to do so, but I started using it with old
files on mild steel about that time. I keep a lot of pressure on a
file, and it worked for me, too. But I've also had some files skate,
usually associated with some oiliness and a lack of chalk. With chalk,
I can file pretty hard steel without worrying about skating, if I keep
on the pressure.

--
Ed Huntress

[Larry Jaques]

Yes, clean your files. And teach others how to properly use a file.
So many folks have no clue whatsoever.

But there are opponents of file card use, stating that cards can dull
files while they clean them. I brush mine, using the metal side of the
file card sparingly. A small, cut-down acid brush cleans them nicely,
BTW. 1/4" bristles.

Since I use files and rasps on woodwork, too, I often blow the files
clean with air. (not CalOSHA approved, so wear goggles)
I've ground a chisel point on one of my files so it can be used to
scrape, too.

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in

news:773ghapoblk68cbtt...@4ax.com:

> You're going to find that your opinion on this is opposed by
> almost every experienced metalworker who's commented about it for the
> past 200 years. And the old ones used files instead of milling
> machines. They really knew files and filing.
>

Oh, fooey! I didn't learn that by "just trying it one day". Pretty much
anything I've learned about metal came from "the old guys". I've got
books on the shelf that are probably even older than you, unless you hail
to the mid-1800s!

It's an old, honored, and well-recommended method among almost ALL
"experienced metalworkers....[for] the past 200 years"....

It's NOT a replacement for chalk, no; each has its place. But that
statement you made is just... wrong...

I won't venture to say what works best for you, because that's you and
the tool alone in a room, and has little to do with 'advice' or my own
experiences. But both work well for me, and I do not vary the pressure
(enough to stop cutting) during a filing stroke, regardless of what I use
to prevent pinning. Shucks! I don't "backfile", either. Do you?


Lloyd

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
news:kr3ghaha57u7oorb2...@4ax.com:

> I brush mine, using the metal side of the
> file card sparingly

Yeah, me too, and anyone who cares about their files. But there are times
when a gummy chip gets stuck. Sometimes the tip of a new utility knife
blade is a better solution... so long as your angle and tracking of the
groove are correct.

Lloyd

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:57:59 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> fired this volley in
>news:773ghapoblk68cbtt...@4ax.com:
>
>> You're going to find that your opinion on this is opposed by
>> almost every experienced metalworker who's commented about it for the
>> past 200 years. And the old ones used files instead of milling
>> machines. They really knew files and filing.
>>
>
>Oh, fooey! I didn't learn that by "just trying it one day". Pretty much
>anything I've learned about metal came from "the old guys".

Same here.

>I've got
>books on the shelf that are probably even older than you, unless you hail
>to the mid-1800s!

I have some of those, too.

>
>It's an old, honored, and well-recommended method among almost ALL
>"experienced metalworkers....[for] the past 200 years"....

Nicholson, in its 1920 manual, says that it's Ok in some circumstances
(mostly in the finest finishing); not Ok in others. They caution that
using oil results in a shallower cut and less bite.

As I said, you can do it on softer materials. When you get into the
marginal range of material hardness, you're inviting a skate.

>
>It's NOT a replacement for chalk, no; each has its place. But that
>statement you made is just... wrong...

Not really.

>
>I won't venture to say what works best for you, because that's you and
>the tool alone in a room, and has little to do with 'advice' or my own
>experiences. But both work well for me, and I do not vary the pressure
>(enough to stop cutting) during a filing stroke, regardless of what I use
>to prevent pinning. Shucks! I don't "backfile", either. Do you?

If you mean applying pressure on the backstroke, of course not.

--
Ed Huntress

>
>
>Lloyd

[David Harmon]

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:27:04 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Lloyd E.
Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote,

>If a file is SHARP to begin with, and sufficient pressure is being
>applied to make it cut the way it was intended to, oil won't inhibit
>that, even on harder metals

And if your file is not perfect, and you slack off the pressure
momentarily, then Ed's advice might save you where yours won't.

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> fired this volley in
news:lMidnTPt4q2fIYTI...@earthlink.com:

> and you slack off the pressure
> momentarily, then Ed's advice might save you where yours won't.

And if you DON'T slack off on the pressure, you won't dull it so fast.

What ever happened to "technique"?

Lloyd

[Tom Gardner]

Yep, just plain old chalk sticks prevent the clogging and lube the cut.

[Tom Gardner]

When I first started to work in the shop, i asked the old Hungarian
machinist to teach me to use the Bridgeport and the lathe. e handed me
a new file and showed me how to use it. It was more than a year before
I flipped a switch.

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/29/2015 10:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Yes, clean your files. And teach others how to properly use a file.
> So many folks have no clue whatsoever.
>
> But there are opponents of file card use, stating that cards can dull
> files while they clean them. I brush mine, using the metal side of the
> file card sparingly. A small, cut-down acid brush cleans them nicely,
> BTW. 1/4" bristles.

I use a 1-3/4" fine wire (.006") cup brush hand held.

[Ed Huntress]

On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 11:53:10 -0400, Tom Gardner <Ma...@tacks.com>
wrote:

That's a good way to start. Rolls-Royce use to have a test for
prospective machinists. They gave them piece of brass plate with a
square hole in it, and a piece of raound brass rod. Their task was to
file the rod square on the end and fit them together. If the
instructor could see daylight in the gap, they weren't hired.

Did you also learn to use all of the chisels? I have a variety,
including cape chisels and goosenecks. If you have a really sturdy
vise, it's amazing what you can do with them.

--
Ed Huntress

[Tom Gardner]

I don't use a file card, I use a 1-3/4" fine wire (.006") cup brush by
hand. File card wire has to be high tensile for manufacturing the card.

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/31/2015 12:01 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>
>> When I first started to work in the shop, i asked the old Hungarian
>> machinist to teach me to use the Bridgeport and the lathe. e handed me
>> a new file and showed me how to use it. It was more than a year before
>> I flipped a switch.
>
> That's a good way to start. Rolls-Royce use to have a test for
> prospective machinists. They gave them piece of brass plate with a
> square hole in it, and a piece of raound brass rod. Their task was to
> file the rod square on the end and fit them together. If the
> instructor could see daylight in the gap, they weren't hired.
>
> Did you also learn to use all of the chisels? I have a variety,
> including cape chisels and goosenecks. If you have a really sturdy
> vise, it's amazing what you can do with them.
>

You mean the single-tooth files?

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 01:33:51 -0400, Tom Gardner <Ma...@tacks.com>
wrote:

<g> Yeah.

--
Ed Huntress