"Real" Money
geo...@ankerstein.org
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.
GFH
Bruce Remick
<geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
news:1169863713.7...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Isn't the value of the current US nickel, and maybe the cent, in the metal
they're made of? Maybe not by intention, but........
Bruce
S. Drummond
1968. Mexico has been releasing bimetallic silver centered 100 peso coins to
banks there since 2003- I don't know if they actually circulate. I'd bet
there are probably others out there.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Jass
On Jan 26, 9:57 pm, "S. Drummond" <xmrxpotatohe...@xxxuserve.com>
wrote:
According to Wikipedia, the 20 and 50 peso coins also have silver
Christian Feldhaus
> If not, which country carried on coinage after
> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
Don't know when that was, but Germany made silver circulation coins
until 1974, Austria until 1973, Netherlands until 1967, Switzerland
until 1969. Whether you call that "real" money ... after all, the value
of these coins was not determined by their metallic composition. All
these countries still issue silver collector coins that can be had at
face value but do not really circulate ...
Christian
Sibirskmoneta
"Christian Feldhaus" <m...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:1hslhfj.1982u5p63fhf6N%m...@privacy.net.invalid...
Actually Germany and France made circulating commemorative coins much later
than 1974. Germany had 10 mk commems which, while not actively circulating,
could be purchased at banks and spent if you wanted to. I found a Carl
Zeiss 10 MK coin the other day that I asked for in change somewhere in
Bremen when I was there. When I was in Paris back in 2000 it was possible
to find 100 FF coins that were silver and ask for them in change, which I
did, so I have nice Marie Curie and Tour Eiffel coins.
In Netherlands they still release 5 and 10 Euro commems in silver and sell
them at post offices and or banks, my contact there has supplied me with
practically the whole selection of them:)
And so far, for Germany, Christian himself sent me the 10 Euro commem for
Mozart, but so far we are agreeing to pass on this years lousy selection of
commems:(
note.boy
I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
Why do they still have the one cent coin and $1 note as both are an enormous
waste of taxpayers money and creates a lot of sorting and transportation
expense.
Why are all the notes the one colour and size regardless of denomination as
this must make the sorting of notes difficult.
Why do the notes have little in the way of security features which makes
forgery easier.
As the congresscritters for the answer. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>
> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
> news:1169863713.7...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> "Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
>> metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
>> real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
>> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
>>
>> BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
>> gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
>> Kennedy half dollar was.
>>
>> GFH
>>
>
> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on the
planet and come to this conclusion, eh?
Mr. Jaggers
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more backward
coin and papermoney set up.
Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in circulation
similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in 1984
and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar note) in
1967.
The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of view
is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive issues in
a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different banks that
change fairly regularly. Billy
Aram H. Haroutunian
simple one.
I think that our leadership believes that our currency has been stable for
so long that
it represents the symbol of trustworthiness worldwide, and that any attempt
to alter
that symbolic imagery would be harmful to the fiscal reputation of the US.
I would tend to agree
if it weren't for the present leadership's cavalier attitude toward the rest
of the world
today about things that really matter. :-(
Aram.
=======================
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
Mr. Jaggers
>
> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
> news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>
>>> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
>>> news:1169863713.7...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> "Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
>>>> metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
>>>> real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
>>>> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
>>>> gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
>>>> Kennedy half dollar was.
>>>>
>>>> GFH
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
>>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>
>> So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on
>> the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?
>>
>> Mr. Jaggers
>>
>
> Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
> backward coin and papermoney set up.
Oh, I see, now that I've called your bluff, you change the parameters.
Clever move.
Mr. J.
geo...@ankerstein.org
On Jan 27, 4:22 pm, "note.boy" <note....@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in messagenews:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
> > Mr. JaggersProve me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more backward
> coin and papermoney set up.
>
> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in circulation
> similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>
> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in 1984
> and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar note) in
> 1967.
>
> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>
> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of view
> is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive issues in
> a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different banks that
> change fairly regularly.
I agree with all of these points, but the USA (except for gold coins
minted prior to
1933) has never demonitized any of its currency. It is all still
good! The USA is
understandably reluctant to break this policy. How to introduce the US
$ 1.-
coin without demontizing the US$ 1.- bill. That is the problem no one
has solved.
Can you?
GFH
Jeff R.
"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>
> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>
>
> Why are all the notes the one colour and size regardless of denomination
> as this must make the sorting of notes difficult.
>
> Why do the notes have little in the way of security features which makes
> forgery easier.
>
> As the congresscritters for the answer. Billy
Tend to agree, Billy.
Judging by the responses over the years, in this NG, to the proposal that
the 1¢ be dropped, I'd suggest that our US cousins would tend to be a little
more conservative (read "ornery", "stubborn"...) than most of the rest of
the globe, particularly in terms of "fixing something what ain't broke!"
The degree of being "broke", of course, is debatable. (As is the relative
virtue of this character trait.)
I'm guessing here, but maybe too many 'Merkins have fond memories
(anecdotes, stories) of "what Granpaw did with that penny" (etc. etc.) for
them to allow that tangible piece of history to be summarily eliminated.
(And rounding will result in runaway inflation for decades to come.)
To give them their credit, they are making a half-hearted, and wishy-washy
attempt to introduce some colour (sorry: "color") into their notes. Too
little, too late, too slow.
I kinda like the vignettes on some of their notes, 'though: The spooky
pyramid and eye on the $1, the founding fathers on the $2. The architecture
lessons on the others get a bit dull.
Making them all the same size has got be a bit silly.
Still - if it ain't broke...
--
Jeff R.
(from the land of kaleidoscopic plastic banknote)
Jeff R.
"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Why are all the notes the one colour and size regardless of denomination
> as this must make the sorting of notes difficult.
Almost forgot...
Oh! for the good old days of the *magnificent* silver certificates:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/5_Silver_US_Dollars_1896.jpg
Sigghhhhhh
--
Jeff R.
WheatPenny
>
>
>On Jan 27, 4:22 pm, "note.boy" <note....@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in messagenews:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
>> > Mr. JaggersProve me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more backward
>> coin and papermoney set up.
>>
>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in circulation
>> similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>>
>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in 1984
>> and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar note) in
>> 1967.
>>
>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>>
>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of view
>> is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive issues in
>> a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different banks that
>> change fairly regularly.
>
>I agree with all of these points, but the USA (except for gold coins
>minted prior to
>1933) has never demonitized any of its currency. It is all still
>good! The USA is
>understandably reluctant to break this policy.
Yep, like I always tell people who rubbish oour economy and our
currency system, this is the only country in the world where you can
still spend a 200 year old coin. Anyone who would do so would have to
be insane, butat least it's still legal tender.
> How to introduce the US
>$ 1.-coin without demontizing the US$ 1.- bill. That is the problem no one
>has solved.
>
>Can you?
>
>GFH
The solution is to stop making the $1 bills and make only the coins.
After a few years the bills will disappear from circulation as they
become worn or as they are hoarded out of circulation by the "these
are going to be worth a bazillion dollars one day" people (the same
ones who are now hoarding circulated state quarters ( which they will
put right beside the sacks of bicentennial coins that they still
haven't found a buyer for)
Jeff R.
<geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
news:1169935781....@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I agree with all of these points, but the USA (except for gold coins
> minted prior to
> 1933) has never demonitized any of its currency. It is all still
> good! The USA is
> understandably reluctant to break this policy. How to introduce the US
> $ 1.-
> coin without demontizing the US$ 1.- bill. That is the problem no one
> has solved.
>
> Can you?
>
> GFH
Just stop printing them. They wear out pretty fast. Before long they'll be
effectively out of circulation and will represent just an occasional
nuisance at the register. Witness the "found in change" threads. Hehe.
They'll start a whole new round of "this dopey young store clerk refused to
take my $1 notes - called the manager... (etc.)" threads.
After a few years everyone will wonder what the fuss was about.
Here in Australia, the complete changeover was measured in months, not
years. I'm still gobsmacked at how quickly the paper $1 and $2 disappeared.
--
Jeff R.
kathy1945
are primarily here to serve the purpose of commerce, and they work
pretty well. So what if a lot of them aren't worthy of framing.
That's only a secondary consideration.
Jeff R.
"kathy1945" <hiimbl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1169940550.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Boy, some of you guys are real money snobs. The U.S. bills and coins
> are primarily here to serve the purpose of commerce, and they work
> pretty well. So what if a lot of them aren't worthy of framing.
> That's only a secondary consideration.
So why are the Feds "colorizing" the new issues? If it ain't broke?
--
Jeff R. (Real Money Snob)
(sees no harm in the admiration of beauty)
Dave Hinz
>
> "kathy1945" <hiimbl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1169940550.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>> Boy, some of you guys are real money snobs. The U.S. bills and coins
>> are primarily here to serve the purpose of commerce, and they work
>> pretty well. So what if a lot of them aren't worthy of framing.
>> That's only a secondary consideration.
>
> So why are the Feds "colorizing" the new issues? If it ain't broke?
Stated purpose is to make them more visually distinguished from the
other; the redesign in general is to add anti-counterfieting features.
Or was that a rhetorical question?
Jeff R.
"Dave Hinz" <Dave...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:522cdcF...@mid.individual.net...
Way, w-a-a-ay rhetorical.
Sorry - couldn't conjure an appropriate smiley.
--
Jeff R.
Bruce Remick
>
> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
> news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>
>>> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
>>> news:1169863713.7...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> "Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
>>>> metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
>>>> real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
>>>> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
>>>> gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
>>>> Kennedy half dollar was.
>>>>
>>>> GFH
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
>>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>
>> So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on
>> the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?
>>
>> Mr. Jaggers
>>
>
> Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
> backward coin and papermoney set up.
By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
>
> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any other
countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better not go
there if it bugs you.
>
> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
> 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
> note) in 1967.
So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still has
50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both? People
like to use them, I guess. Same here.
>
> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
>
> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
> view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
> issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
> banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by size in
my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination with another.
I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way our money has
looked for well over half a century. Gives consumers confidence and
comfort. Frequent currency design changes can create confusion.
Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins in my
pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the coins are
made of.
Bruce
Bruce
Ed Hendricks
>
> I agree with all of these points, but the USA (except for gold coins
> minted prior to
> 1933) has never demonitized any of its currency. It is all still
> good! The USA is
> understandably reluctant to break this policy. How to introduce the
> US $ 1.-
> coin without demontizing the US$ 1.- bill. That is the problem no one
> has solved.
>
> Can you?
>
> GFH
The $1 coin has already been introduced in the US (numerous times), and
there are currently three versions "circulating" and soon to be a fourth
one. It is not necessary to demonitize anything. Just quit making the damn
bill! The ones in circulation will wear out in about a year and the only
ones remaining will be in collections. Just like all other obsolete bills.
Also, as far as I know, all US coin and currency is currently legal
tender.....including pre 1933 gold.
--
忽帕
~
Ed Hendricks
Bruce Remick
"Jeff R." <conta...@this.ng> wrote in message
news:45bbd208$0$5744$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
The public doesn't always choose the most efficient combinations of bills
and coins. If they did, our 50¢ and $2 bill would be used more. They're
still available but people choose to use two quarters or two ones.
Bruce
Bruce Remick
>
> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>
> <...>
>>
>> Why are all the notes the one colour and size regardless of denomination
>> as this must make the sorting of notes difficult.
>>
>> Why do the notes have little in the way of security features which makes
>> forgery easier.
>>
>> As the congresscritters for the answer. Billy
>
> Tend to agree, Billy.
> Judging by the responses over the years, in this NG, to the proposal that
> the 1¢ be dropped, I'd suggest that our US cousins would tend to be a
> little more conservative (read "ornery", "stubborn"...) than most of the
> rest of the globe, particularly in terms of "fixing something what ain't
> broke!"
I doubt we have a monopoly on that view. We've actually never been
challenged recently to accept a significant monetary "fix". We've always
been left with multiple options.
>
> The degree of being "broke", of course, is debatable. (As is the relative
> virtue of this character trait.)
>
> I'm guessing here, but maybe too many 'Merkins have fond memories
> (anecdotes, stories) of "what Granpaw did with that penny" (etc. etc.) for
> them to allow that tangible piece of history to be summarily eliminated.
> (And rounding will result in runaway inflation for decades to come.)
I'd prefer to think that most 'merkins simply don't care about the look or
their money. When there's a design change, there's a buzz for the first
year, then no one cares anymore. The American public has not clamored for
or had to deal with a significant change in coin denomination since the half
cent, two cent and three cent coins were discontinued. The 20¢ coin wasn't
around long enough to create a fan base. The history of those coins remains
for anyone who wants to own (or even spend) one. When silver dollars were
eliminated few were using them anyway
>
> To give them their credit, they are making a half-hearted, and wishy-washy
> attempt to introduce some colour (sorry: "color") into their notes. Too
> little, too late, too slow.
The more colors, details, frequent changes, the harder it becomes for a
merchant do detect a counterfeit. But by the same token, the more familiar
the design, like with our US currency, the more the merchant tends to become
oblivious to the design. Either way may work or not for a given country.
>
> I kinda like the vignettes on some of their notes, 'though: The spooky
> pyramid and eye on the $1, the founding fathers on the $2. The
> architecture lessons on the others get a bit dull.
>
> Making them all the same size has got be a bit silly.
We've grown to like them all the same size. Easier to count and spot the
denomination on the corner. None get lost or hidden in the wallet. I will
say that on my last trip to the UK, after a few days I go used to arranging
the bills according to size in my (too small) wallet. I especially liked
the one and two pound coins. I could pick them out of my pocket change by
feel after a few days. I'd like to see a thick dollar and/or two dollar
coin like that here instead of what we've got.
Bruce
Padraic Brown
wrote:
>
>"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:woPuh.50508$RL5....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>> news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>
>>>> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:1169863713.7...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> "Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
>>>>> metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
>>>>> real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
>>>>> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
>>>>> gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
>>>>> Kennedy half dollar was.
>>>>>
>>>>> GFH
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
>>>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>>
>>> So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on
>>> the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?
>>>
>>> Mr. Jaggers
>>>
>>
>> Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
>> backward coin and papermoney set up.
>
>By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
Well, mine (US near DC) for one. A lot of other RCCers share this
assessment, witnessed by the countless "let's see how we can improve
the US's money set-up", "get rid of the penny/cent!" and "get rid of
the paper dollar" threads over the last decade at least.
>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
>> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>
>The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value?
When compared with the set-ups of most other countries in the world,
yes. Most countries' smallest valued note is 5.00, some probably
10.00. Also when one considers the buying power of a note, the $1 is
pretty small compared to how it used to be. Even in my lifetime, I've
seen what could be bought for a dollar in the late 1970s compared with
what _can't_ be bought for a dollar anymore. Or even two or three
dollars.
He also mentioned "coins" in there. The penny and nickel are
ridiculously low valued when compared with the prices of just about
anything in the USA. There's hardly anything of any size or content
that can be bought for a quarter -- how much less is the power of a
nickel or penny except in accumulation.
If it weren't for the rise in copper and nickel prices, those two
coins would continue on their rapid course towards irrelevance.
>Regardless, if any other
>countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better not go
>there if it bugs you.
I daresay the coins and notes themselves don't bug him. What seems to
be bugging him is what is bugging a lot of people: the nonsense and
primitivity of the present system!
>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
>> 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
>> note) in 1967.
>
>So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still has
>50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both? People
>like to use them, I guess. Same here.
Not quite like here. That 50p coin _replaced_ an older, increasingly
lower valued note. That was the whole point!
>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>
>Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
A simple calculator will do.
>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
>> view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
>> issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
>> banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
>
>Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
>lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by size in
>my wallet.
Personally I agree with this sentiment, though I tend to shove the
things into my pocket rather than neatly folding them in my wallet.
I'm curious, though: do you have a trifold wallet?
>Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination with another.
Good for you that your eyes have not yet gone blind! Not that there
are many blind people when compared to the population as a whole, but
differing sizes do help them live a little more independently. And
what's more American than livining an independent lifestyle?
>I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way our money has
>looked for well over half a century.
Yeah. They were uninspired in 1928, too! If we could see some truly
amazing designs, I wouldn't care if they were all green and the same
size!
>Gives consumers confidence and
>comfort.
This is true. The good old greenbacks have a good reputation worldwide
in part because of their distinctive sameness, both across
denominations and through time.
>Frequent currency design changes can create confusion.
It can. But Americans had no trouble with all the design changes that
were witnessed in earlier decades.
Padraic
>Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins in my
>pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the coins are
>made of.
>
>Bruce
>
>Bruce
>
--
Jeff R.
"e" <som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:DqUuh.29535$VX1....@fe05.news.easynews.com...
> In article <1169940550.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>,
> won't be snatched up eagerly.
1) Australia.
('cause I'd lose AUD$8 exchanging it for real spending money)
Anybody else?
--
Jeff R.
A.E. Gelat
SMALLER reasonably-sized coin, something just larger than a nickel, with a
milled edge. The one-dollar bills in circulation will slowly wear out and
eventually disappear
Tony.
<geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
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A.E. Gelat
10-cent coins. By themselves, they can buy nothing, but they are necessary
to make change.
Tony
"Padraic Brown" <elem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t12or29bmoiqba3cg...@4ax.com...
Bruce Remick
So are you saying that discussions on RCC indicate our monetary system is
backward relative to other countries? I agree with a lot of the points in
these RCC discussions, but I doubt the public considers our system
backwards.
>
>>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
>>> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>>
>>The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value?
>
> When compared with the set-ups of most other countries in the world,
> yes. Most countries' smallest valued note is 5.00, some probably
> 10.00. Also when one considers the buying power of a note, the $1 is
> pretty small compared to how it used to be. Even in my lifetime, I've
> seen what could be bought for a dollar in the late 1970s compared with
> what _can't_ be bought for a dollar anymore. Or even two or three
> dollars.
Still, people LIKE the dollar bill. More even than a dollar coin. When
they use these bills, they don't wonder what people in other countries are
using. When they discuss what a dollar used to buy, they're not yearning
for a more modern monetary system. The public decides what coins and bills
it prefers to use. What can be bought with them has no bearing, or else we
would abolish minor coins altogether because you can't buy much with them.
>
> He also mentioned "coins" in there. The penny and nickel are
> ridiculously low valued when compared with the prices of just about
> anything in the USA. There's hardly anything of any size or content
> that can be bought for a quarter -- how much less is the power of a
> nickel or penny except in accumulation.
>
> If it weren't for the rise in copper and nickel prices, those two
> coins would continue on their rapid course towards irrelevance.
Sure, they have little value. But until some laws change, they're required
to make change. The public accepts this so there's no outcry to change
things.
>
>>Regardless, if any other
>>countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better not go
>>there if it bugs you.
>
> I daresay the coins and notes themselves don't bug him. What seems to
> be bugging him is what is bugging a lot of people: the nonsense and
> primitivity of the present system!
I guess the premise that our monetary system is primitive and nonsensical
because it's not the same as other countries or the way foreigners think it
should be structured is pretty flimsy, IMO. I suppose I could examine the
monetary system of some other countries and question its rationale. None of
my business, really. I don't live there or appreciate the needs of commerce
or feelings of the people. Our system is designed for the use and
convenience of the public. They/we/I seem to like or accept it. If folks
from other countries feel their system is great and better than ours, fine.
Enjoy it. Aside from coin collectors, most of us here seem to enjoy things
the way they are. Modifications will be accepted if they are forthcoming.
>
>>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
>>> 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
>>> note) in 1967.
>>
>>So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still has
>>50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
>>People
>>like to use them, I guess. Same here.
>
> Not quite like here. That 50p coin _replaced_ an older, increasingly
> lower valued note. That was the whole point!
It's simply the peoples' choice. In the US, we might have preferred to use
two 50p coins instead of a pound coin, leaving the pound coin to languish.
Like we now prefer to use two quarters instead of one half dollar. You
can't say one country is more "backward" than another with its monetary
system without addressing what the people of that country prefer to use in
their daily commerce.
>
>>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>>
>>Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
>
> A simple calculator will do.
There's no key for "behindness" or "elitist quotient" on my calculator.
>
>>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
>>> view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
>>> issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
>>> banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
>>
>>Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
>>lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by size
>>in
>>my wallet.
>
> Personally I agree with this sentiment, though I tend to shove the
> things into my pocket rather than neatly folding them in my wallet.
>
> I'm curious, though: do you have a trifold wallet?
Yes. But it wasn't quite big enough to hide the bills in the UK. If I were
staying longer, I would have bought a wallet to accommodate that currency.
>
>>Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination with another.
>
> Good for you that your eyes have not yet gone blind! Not that there
> are many blind people when compared to the population as a whole, but
> differing sizes do help them live a little more independently. And
> what's more American than livining an independent lifestyle?
If I ever get to the point where I can't read the 1, 5, 10, or 20 on the
corner, or recognize the individual on the bill, my wife won't let me out of
the house with money anymore. I agree that different size bills should be
easier for blind people, but I do recall reading that, for whatever reason,
many blind people are not among those clamoring for the size change recently
proposed here.
>
>>I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way our money has
>>looked for well over half a century.
>
> Yeah. They were uninspired in 1928, too! If we could see some truly
> amazing designs, I wouldn't care if they were all green and the same
> size!
I wasn't aware that our money is supposed to be inspirational. Oh as a
collector, maybe. But the guy down the street doesn't even look beyond that
corner number.
>
>>Gives consumers confidence and
>>comfort.
>
> This is true. The good old greenbacks have a good reputation worldwide
> in part because of their distinctive sameness, both across
> denominations and through time.
That was all I was saying.
>
>>Frequent currency design changes can create confusion.
>
> It can. But Americans had no trouble with all the design changes that
> were witnessed in earlier decades.
I can't attest to whether Americans had trouble with our early bill designs,
or which ones they might have actually encountered in everyday shopping.
But it had to be confusing based on the size of my old Criswell reference.
Bruce
Bruce Remick
Actually, the US $100 probably is a poor choice because of the counterfeit
threat-- perceived and/or real. In the 1990's, before the latest design
change, US overseas travelers choosing to carrying cash were advised to
bring US $50 rather than $100 because many banks and currency exchanges were
not accepting the $100. Too many "supernote" counterfeit $100's at the
time. Even with the design change, that US $100 uneasiness is still out
there in some places.
I will gladly snatch up any US$100 if I can do so legally, like in smashing
a piñata or something.
Bruce
Jeff R.
"e" <som...@some.domain> wrote in message
> In article <45bc13c6$0$29329$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Jeff R."
>>
>>1) Australia.
>>
>>('cause I'd lose AUD$8 exchanging it for real spending money)
>>
>>Anybody else?
>>
> why would you lose $8? excange charge?
Yup.
One of the reasons I like PayPal.
--
Jeff R.
Padraic Brown
<age...@kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
>Here's the solution. Stop printing $1 notes,and flood the market with a
>SMALLER reasonably-sized coin, something just larger than a nickel, with a
>milled edge. The one-dollar bills in circulation will slowly wear out and
>eventually disappear
I.e., exactly what the US has done, apart from the milled edge and
that oh-so-risky move of stopping $1 note production!
Padraic.
--
Padraic Brown
<age...@kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
>One point that it seems everybody has missed is the USE of the 1,5 and
>10-cent coins. By themselves, they can buy nothing, but they are necessary
>to make change.
Only because we don't round to the nearest nickel or dime. And lot of
the "use" seems to be from store to customer rather than from customer
to store. I'm not sure I'd like to see rounding to the nearest dime,
but to the nearest nickel wouldn't be too awful. Rounding is exactly
how those countries that have gotten rid of their pennies (and in some
cases nickels) go about things. It's not hard, we already round to the
nearest cent at the gasoline pump, and no one complains about not
having mil denominated coins to make change for the transaction!
Padraic
Usene...@the-domain-in.sig
conta...@this.ng says...
>
> "e" <som...@some.domain> wrote in message
> news:AqVuh.36789$%l2.2...@fe10.news.easynews.com...
> > In article <45bc13c6$0$29329$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Jeff R."
> > <conta...@this.ng> wrote:
> >>
> >>1) Australia.
> >>
> >>('cause I'd lose AUD$8 exchanging it for real spending money)
> >>
> >>Anybody else?
> >>
> > i said country, not collective insanity.....(g)
> > why would you lose $8? excange charge?
> Yup.
Actually, my understanding is that Australian banks also charge
obnoxious fees for depositing international cheques.
I don't know if it is really a risk issue. Since the bank can
place a hold on that amount until the cheque clears, and can take
the money back from the account if there is a later dispute.
My guess is that they do it because they can. And all the other
(small number) Australian banks do, too, so no competition on
that angle.
--
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Check The Free Stuff List
Christian Feldhaus
> but so far we are agreeing to pass on this years lousy selection of
> commems:(
He is referring to this one, which was issued earlier this month:
50 Years State of Saarland <http://tinylink.com/?wvyukbVOG5>
<http://www.deutsche-sammlermuenzen.de/bmf/art/shop/gedenkmuenzen/910029
SG_gr.jpg> And yes, that one is poorly designed in my opinion. The
other 2007 designs (Treaty of Rome, Wilhelm Busch, Deutsche Bundesbank,
Elizabeth of Thuringia) are partly ho-hum, partly neat.
As I mentioned, all these silver coins are available at face value. But
in DE there are no silver circulation coins; that phase actually ended
in 1975. You can _get_ collector coins that contain silver from banks
(or post offices in NL), and some stores even accept them <g>.
However, you hardly ever come across them unless you actively do
something to get any. Also, those silver pieces are legal tender in the
issuing member state only. Every "regular" euro coin (circulation piece
or €2 commem) is good for payments anywhere in Euroland - but if I
accidentally received a Dutch €5 collector coin in change in NL, for
example, that would not be legal tender in DE and vice versa.
This weird system works because "collector coins" are basically
considered to be just that - coins made for collectors, not for
circulation. I get them at face value here, so I certainly don't mind
spending 10 euro on a €10 coin <g>, but the times of silver circulation
coins are gone.
Christian
Christian Feldhaus
> We've grown to like them all the same size. Easier to count and spot the
> denomination on the corner.
Guess that first sentence above is the key here. You are used to all
notes having the same size and basically the same color. So you
"automatically" focus on other means of differentiation, like the big 1,
5, etc. or the president depicted maybe.
For me (not living in the US) it is fairly difficult to "count and spot"
those USD notes very quickly. On the other hand, I am used to different
denominations having different colors and sizes. Easier to count and
spot, y'know. ;-)
> I will say that on my last trip to the UK, after a few days I go used to
> arranging the bills according to size in my (too small) wallet.
We've grown to --- see, that kind of arranging is what I always do when
I'm in the US, but never really do when here in Euroland. Simply because
here (or in Switzerland, for example) I can easily tell the different
notes apart. In the US, I have to check every single note and find out
how much it represents, so I sort them.
Christian
Bruce Remick
"Christian Feldhaus" <m...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:1hsnf9a.12dsf701calo24N%m...@privacy.net.invalid...
I would think that it would take tourists about the same amount of time to
learn the various denominations and designs of Swiss notes in circulation
(and mentally convert the values to their own currency) as it would to
distinguish among the various denominations of US notes in circulation,
designs notwithstanding. Natives and frequent travelers would do this by
reflex and think nothing of it, although they, too, would unconsciously be
checking every single note. Even with different sized notes, I doubt I'd
trust myself to pull the right combination of bills out of my wallet without
glancing at them first. If I'm wrong, I don't want to hear it.
Bruce
RayCanada
bill you just stop making new ones, the life of a bill in circulation
is a few years after that they get worn out and kept by the bank to be
disposed of, and it's costly to keep replacing them, it was one reason
out of many that Canada went to the one dollar coin/loonie and the two
dollar bi metalic coin the twoonie and people got used to those fast,
no complaints about not having a dollar or two dollar bill anymore, I
would even venture to say we have an entire generation now that has
never even seen one.
Dave Hinz
> Here's the solution. Stop printing $1 notes,and flood the market with a
> SMALLER reasonably-sized coin, something just larger than a nickel, with a
> milled edge. The one-dollar bills in circulation will slowly wear out and
> eventually disappear
The English one-pound coin is a great example. About the size of a
nickel, double-thick, milled edge, and brass in color. Immediately
distinguishable from anything else in your pocket. The problem with the
US dollar coin is that they keep re-introducing new versions of it, with
the same fundamental design flaw - size. But they want it to work in
vending machines. So they keep releasing a design which is backward
compatible with the very problem that makes it fatally flawed in the
first place.
Hm. Kind of like Windows, if you think about it.
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>
> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:woPuh.50508$RL5....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>> news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>
>>>> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:1169863713.7...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> "Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
>>>>> metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
>>>>> real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
>>>>> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
>>>>> gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
>>>>> Kennedy half dollar was.
>>>>>
>>>>> GFH
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
>>>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>>
>>> So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on
>>> the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?
>>>
>>> Mr. Jaggers
>>>
>>
>> Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
>> backward coin and papermoney set up.
>
> Clever move.
>
> Mr. J.
>
What bluff and what parameters were changed?
I thank you for calling me clever as that's never happened to me before.
Billy
Bruce Remick
"A.E. Gelat" <age...@kingwoodcable.com> wrote in message
news:11699541...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> Here's the solution. Stop printing $1 notes,and flood the market with a
> SMALLER reasonably-sized coin, something just larger than a nickel, with a
> milled edge. The one-dollar bills in circulation will slowly wear out and
> eventually disappear
>
> Tony.
>
That's certainly a solution, but who will be doing this "flooding"? By
eliminating the dollar bill, the dollar coin should gradually become more
accepted in its place as long as merchants ask for them along with other
coins for their cash registers. Eliminating the bill should take care of
things all by itself.
Bruce
note.boy
<geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
>
>
> On Jan 27, 4:22 pm, "note.boy" <note....@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> > Mr. JaggersProve me wrong by naming a non third world country that has
>> coin and papermoney set up.
>>
>> circulation
>> similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>>
>> 1984
>> and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar note)
>> in
>> 1967.
>>
>>
>> view
>> is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive issues
>> in
>> a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different banks that
>> change fairly regularly.
>
> minted prior to
> 1933) has never demonitized any of its currency. It is all still
> good! The USA is
> understandably reluctant to break this policy. How to introduce the US
> coin without demontizing the US$ 1.- bill. That is the problem no one
> has solved.
>
> Can you?
>
>
It's not necessary to demonetize the one dollar note, all that's required is
for the printing of them to stop. It's not rocket science.
It's not possible to spend a 300 year old note issued by the Bank of
Scotland but the bank will still give face for it. Billy
note.boy
"WheatPenny" <jeffre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:95knr25dobbbkslte...@4ax.com...
> currency system, this is the only country in the world where you can
> still spend a 200 year old coin. Anyone who would do so would have to
> be insane, butat least it's still legal tender.
>
>> How to introduce the US
>>has solved.
>>
>>Can you?
>>
>>GFH
>
> After a few years the bills will disappear from circulation as they
> become worn or as they are hoarded out of circulation by the "these
> are going to be worth a bazillion dollars one day" people (the same
> ones who are now hoarding circulated state quarters ( which they will
> put right beside the sacks of bicentennial coins that they still
> haven't found a buyer for)
>
Rubbishing the coin and note system in the USA is NOT rubbishing the
economy, why do you think it is?
The only reason that coins that old can still be spent in the USA is that
the coinage system is way overdue for reform, that's nothing to be proud of.
The Bank of Scotland will still give face value for notes issued by them as
far back as 1695. Billy
note.boy
sense. Billy
"A.E. Gelat" <age...@kingwoodcable.com> wrote in message
news:11699541...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
note.boy
Scottish notes are more difficult to fake than the current USA notes, it's a
disgraceful situation.
I got £40 cash back at the supermarket today and I got four completely
different £10 notes, a Bank of Scotland, a Royal Bank of Scotland, a
Clydesdale and a furriner from the Bank of England. Billy
"kathy1945" <hiimbl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1169940550.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Boy, some of you guys are real money snobs. The U.S. bills and coins
> are primarily here to serve the purpose of commerce, and they work
> pretty well. So what if a lot of them aren't worthy of framing.
> That's only a secondary consideration.
>
>
>
note.boy
<Usene...@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.2025fc74...@nntp.aioe.org...
UK banks charge about £5 to process a foreign cheque. Billy
note.boy
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:zcTuh.5823$W73....@newsfe22.lga...
>
> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:woPuh.50508$RL5....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>> news:epgde...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>
>>>>> "Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
>>>>> metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
>>>>> real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
>>>>> LBJ eliminated silver coinage?
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
>>>>> gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
>>>>> Kennedy half dollar was.
>>>>>
>>>>> GFH
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin "real"
>>>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>>
>>> So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations on
>>> the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?
>>>
>>> Mr. Jaggers
>>>
>>
>> backward coin and papermoney set up.
>
>
>>
You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you would.
>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
>> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>
> The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
> other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better not
> go there if it bugs you.
Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.
>
>>
>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
>> 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
>> note) in 1967.
>
> So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still has
> 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
> People like to use them, I guess. Same here.
If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.
>
>>
>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>
> Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the solution.
>
>>
>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
>> view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
>> issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
>> banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
>
> Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
> lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by size
> in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination with
> another. I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way our
> money has looked for well over half a century. Gives consumers confidence
> and comfort. Frequent currency design changes can create confusion.
>
> Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins in
> my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the coins
> are made of.
I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.
Have you ever heard of the expression "move with the times", you must be sad
that barter is no longer with us and that we no longer live in caves. Billy
>
> Bruce
>
> Bruce
>
>
note.boy
>
> "note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:iZNuh.82974$Qa6....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on the planet.
>>
>>
>> Why are all the notes the one colour and size regardless of denomination
>> as this must make the sorting of notes difficult.
>>
>> Why do the notes have little in the way of security features which makes
>> forgery easier.
>>
>> As the congresscritters for the answer. Billy
>
> Tend to agree, Billy.
> Judging by the responses over the years, in this NG, to the proposal that
> the 1¢ be dropped, I'd suggest that our US cousins would tend to be a
> little more conservative (read "ornery", "stubborn"...) than most of the
> rest of the globe, particularly in terms of "fixing something what ain't
> broke!"
>
> The degree of being "broke", of course, is debatable. (As is the relative
> virtue of this character trait.)
>
> I'm guessing here, but maybe too many 'Merkins have fond memories
> (anecdotes, stories) of "what Granpaw did with that penny" (etc. etc.) for
> them to allow that tangible piece of history to be summarily eliminated.
> (And rounding will result in runaway inflation for decades to come.)
>
> To give them their credit, they are making a half-hearted, and wishy-washy
> attempt to introduce some colour (sorry: "color") into their notes. Too
> little, too late, too slow.
>
> I kinda like the vignettes on some of their notes, 'though: The spooky
> pyramid and eye on the $1, the founding fathers on the $2. The
> architecture lessons on the others get a bit dull.
>
> Making them all the same size has got be a bit silly.
>
> Still - if it ain't broke...
>
> --
> Jeff R.
> (from the land of kaleidoscopic plastic banknote)
>
In the February issue of Coin News magazine UK there's an article stating
that USA notes are in violation of the Rehabilitation Act as they are one
colour and size.
It looks like the US Treasury will be forced to update the notes in the near
future. Billy
Christian Feldhaus
> In the February issue of Coin News magazine UK there's an article stating
> that USA notes are in violation of the Rehabilitation Act as they are one
> colour and size.
And in the March issue they wish you a Happy New Year? ;-) The judge
ruling that you refer to was in late November 2006, and the US
government appealed in early/mid December ...
Open end, I suppose. And no, I don't like those "one-color-one-size"
notes either. But notes can very well be discriminating against blind an
vision impaired persons. The BEP could add features such as braille
text, for example.
Christian
Christian Feldhaus
> In the February issue of Coin News magazine UK there's an article stating
> that USA notes are in violation of the Rehabilitation Act as they are one
> colour and size.
And in the March issue they wish you a Happy New Year? ;-) The judge
ruling that you refer to was in late November 2006, and the US
government appealed in early/mid December ...
Open end, I suppose. And no, I don't like those "one-color-one-size"
notes either. But notes can very well have the same size without
discriminating against blind and vision impaired persons. The BEP could
note.boy
It also mentioned that about 7 million Americans are blind or visually
impaired and this is expected to reach 11 million by 2015.
The expense will be part of the grounds for the appeal but if the printing
of the one dollar note stopped this must go a long was to covering the
expense. Billy
"Christian Feldhaus" <m...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:1hso8w4.18vjl54xvc9x1N%m...@privacy.net.invalid...
Bruce Remick
Never had any problem buying stuff with our money. As long as it works, who
cares what assortment of denominations a country uses? The only thing
backwards here is your concerns and your Econ 101 logic.
>
>>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
>>> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>>
>> The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
>> other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better
>> not go there if it bugs you.
>
> Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.
Were you able to use our backward currency to buy things? You must've if
you came back a couple times.
>
>>
>>>
>>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
>>> 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
>>> note) in 1967.
>>
>> So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still has
>> 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
>> People like to use them, I guess. Same here.
>
> If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
> millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.
Did you just come in off the college picket line with that? We use all of
our coins and notes, as do people in all countries. You call that wasting?
Wait a few years and there will be no need for cash at all, except for your
"Lucys' Economic Advice 50ข" stand along the street outside your house.
>>>
>>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>>
>> Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
>
> You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the solution.
And the "problem" is? Are we not following the UK model correctly?
>>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
>>> view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
>>> issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
>>> banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
>>
>> Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
>> lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by size
>> in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination with
>> another. I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way our
>> money has looked for well over half a century. Gives consumers
>> confidence and comfort. Frequent currency design changes can create
>> confusion.
>>
>> Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins in
>> my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the
>> coins are made of.
>
> I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
> discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
> would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.
Then you'll LOVE our postage stamps. Try some. Different sizes, too. And
you ought to spend some of those US notes, rather than let them accumulate
so much that you have to "rummage".
>
> Have you ever heard of the expression "move with the times", you must be
> sad that barter is no longer with us and that we no longer live in caves.
> Billy
Gee, no. I've never heard of that expression. Are you saying we should
have "moved" with certain other countries? By the way, check how the
economies of those other advanced countries are doing compared to ours. If
you know how. The US must be wallowing in the dumps, based on your
assessment of our pace with the world.
Bruce
Mr. Jaggers
Your original challenge allowed a planet-wide search. The modified
challenge limited the search to non-third-world countries.
As for the compliment, you are welcome. You are indeed clever, and a good
guy in my book, too!
James
Mr. Jaggers
When I was still teaching high school students, at one point or another I
would compare the U.S. system with those of several other countries, then
point out the lifespan vs. cost of manufacture of paper vs. metal dollars,
and finally suggest that the government could indeed save millions of
taxpayer dollars by switching to metal dollars, maybe even twos and fives.
The collective shrug was deafening.
James
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more backward
>coin and papermoney set up.
>
>Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in circulation
>similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
Didn't they mint one cent and two cent euros? :-)
Name another country that has a 15 Billion dollar
economy. Maybe the money system has something
to do with economic activity.
Joe Fischer
Joe Fischer
>The public doesn't always choose the most efficient combinations of bills
>and coins. If they did, our 50 and $2 bill would be used more. They're
>still available but people choose to use two quarters or two ones.
>Bruce
I guess there are people who carry 100 and 50
dollar notes, but I don't know any.
The 50 is a useless denomination, the 20 is
the real workhorse, but I have started asking for all
5s when I get cash from the bank.
I don't get a lot of cash from the bank, for
two reasons, I pay for groceries with a credit card,
and I have a small hobby printing business that
I get cash from.
The clerk at short stop was swamped with
20s today, it is difficult for them to keep enough
5s and 10s.
In the real world here, $5 is a lot of money,
almost all fast food places have a $1 menu, and
there are stores where every single item is a dollar,
that couldn't be without China though.
There is a huge hostility against the US
world wide, with only 2 percent growth rate,
the economies of other countries can't keep up
even with 6 or 8 percent growth.
The number of cents that recirculate must
be huge, even with the number minted each year,
the only place I see all BU cents in registers is at
Walmart, Kroger and other big chains.
I found 3 rolls of 1994 BU halves I forgot
I had, and started spending them this week, and
everyone was grabbed and put away, they won't
circulate.
Apparently novelty is a factor in saving
coins, moreso than intrinsic value or numismatics.
Joe Fischer
Joe Fischer
>>By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
>
>Well, mine (US near DC) for one.
That's the reason. :-) In the real world homes
do not have a media price of $500,000 or more (except
maybe in San Francisco, DC, and a few other places,
and money is tight, real tight, mostly because of the
price of gasoline.
The average person earns $9 an hour if the
professionals are not included, which is hardly
enough to avoid becoming homeless.
Why should somebody who spends every
cent they have before the next payday worry about
"real money"?
Any attempt to change anything in an
economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
would be foolhardy,
And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
coins to become worthless.
Joe Fischer
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>> By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
>
>You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you would.
I wonder why more than half of US currency is
oversees, banks all over the world request dollars from
the New York Federal Reserve, they have a warehouse
with skids of currency stacked 10 or 15 meters high just
to provide currency to foreign banks on request.
Is it because it is so backward?
Frankly, the US coins are fine, the quarter is really
all that is needed for parking meters and most machines
here, and making exact change seems to be the fastest
and least troublesome way to do business.
Maybe if all Americans were liberals, they wouldn't
care if they got exact change or not.
It isn't likely we will do things just because others
think we should, making auto parts metric was a huge
mistake costing Americans billions, with no advantage,
it didn't help sell American cars overseas.
Every citizen should be proud of their culture
and system, but part of freedom and liberty is not
being critical of the culture in other countries.
Joe Fischer
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
I changed to non third world countries to give a non apples and oranges
comparison, I believe that India has a very low value coin that is sometimes
drilled to be used as a washer as a washer is more expensive to buy than the
face value of the low value coin.
I can understand the need for a very low value coin in third world countries
but not in one of the richest country on the planet the USA, it just silly
and a waste of taxpayers' money. Billy
note.boy
"Joe Fischer" <j...@westpointracing.com> wrote in message
news:2qtqr21g68lec1637...@4ax.com...
The £2 coin is not terribly common in circulation in the UK and know a lady
who saves all she gets, sometimes exchanging two £1 coins for one, and she
cashes them in at Christmas and holiday time. Billy
note.boy
> On Sat, Padraic Brown <elem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
>>
>>Well, mine (US near DC) for one.
>
> That's the reason. :-) In the real world homes
> do not have a media price of $500,000 or more (except
> maybe in San Francisco, DC, and a few other places,
> and money is tight, real tight, mostly because of the
> price of gasoline.
It's not the price of gasoline that's causing the problem, if it was we
would all be destitute here in the UK, cars in the USA have very large
engines that burn a lot of it, that's the problem. If a USA motorist was to
buy a car that had twice the MPG then in effect their gasoline costs would
half.
>
> The average person earns $9 an hour if the
> professionals are not included, which is hardly
> enough to avoid becoming homeless.
>
> Why should somebody who spends every
> cent they have before the next payday worry about
> "real money"?
>
> Any attempt to change anything in an
> economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
> would be foolhardy,
In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a problem
with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar bill?
>
> And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
> market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
> coins to become worthless.
If they were indeed "worthless" why is the dealer offering to sell them,
have you never seen a USA coin in a junk box? Of course you have but that
doesn't mean that the US dollar is worthless does it.
A 1793 chain cent was recently auctioned in the UK for £9,200, it was bought
at a jumble sale in 1960 for very little, the seller at that time must have
presumed it was worthless, but they were wrong. Billy
>
> Joe Fischer
>
Mr. Jaggers
As silliness goes, demand that the cent should exist is pretty much a
lightweight, and, if you want to talk in terms of waste of taxpayers' money,
hardly even registers on the radar, comparatively speaking.
James
Christian Feldhaus
> In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a problem
> with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar bill?
There are two issues here. First, it was _because_ of the euro
introduction that such major cash setup changes were accepted here. Had
you simply wanted to, say, replace the Dutch kwartje (25 ct gulden) with
a 20 ct coin, or suggested to do away with the German 2 DM coin, people
would have moaned at least ;-) But when you go through a major
changeover anyway, such relatively minor modifications are easier to do.
And then, as for the 1 cent coin in Euroland, yes, they are expensive to
make and not terribly useful. Why did we have to have them? Partly
because in Germany for example we used to have a 1 pfennig coin (worth
half a cent) - and if the smallest euro denomination was ten times as
"big", that would support the popular myth that the euro made things
more expensive. Fortunately in some euro countries the 1 and 2 ct coins
are practically not needed due to rounding regulations ...
Christian
note.boy
I hate to repeat myself but you insists on replying without reading my posts
carefully and posting the first thought that enters your head.
The USA goverment is wasting millions producing low value coins and notes
that have no place in a country like the USA, the UK government dumped the
1/2 penny coin and the ten bob note ages ago, the persons responsible for
the lack of similar action for the one cent coin and one dollar note in the
USA need to be fired. I can't make it any plainer than that.
Try responding directly to my comments above without flying off at a
tangent, please.
If you disagree with my statement, give the reasons, that's how a discussion
works.
>>
>>>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
>>>> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>>>
>>> The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
>>> other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better
>>> not go there if it bugs you.
>>
>> Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.
>
> Were you able to use our backward currency to buy things? You must've if
> you came back a couple times.
>
>>
Yes and the one cent coin was a pain in the bum, I left behind several dozen
when I headed for the airport, many are received in change but few are
spent.
Would you support the introduction of a 1/4 cent coin?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
>>>> 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
>>>> note) in 1967.
>>>
>>> So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still
>>> has 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
>>> People like to use them, I guess. Same here.
>>
>> If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
>> millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.
>
> Did you just come in off the college picket line with that? We use all
> of our coins and notes, as do people in all countries. You call that
> wasting? Wait a few years and there will be no need for cash at all,
> except for your "Lucys' Economic Advice 50¢" stand along the street
> outside your house.
>
>>
I've never been to college and never been on a picket line and I fail to see
what that has to do with anything, or was that a pathetic attempt to
introduce politics into the argument?
100 years after cash has been abolished everywhere else I fear that the USA
will still be using the one cent coin.
>>>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>>>
>>> Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
>>
>> You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the solution.
>
> And the "problem" is? Are we not following the UK model correctly?
The problem is that the USA goverment is ignoring the problem and so are
you, no matter how times it's brought to your attention you fail to
acknowledge its existance.
>
>>>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
>>>> view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
>>>> issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
>>>> banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
>>>
>>> Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
>>> lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by
>>> size in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination
>>> with another. I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way
>>> our money has looked for well over half a century. Gives consumers
>>> confidence and comfort. Frequent currency design changes can create
>>> confusion.
>>>
>>> Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins in
>>> my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the
>>> coins are made of.
>>
>> I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
>> discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
>> would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.
>
> Then you'll LOVE our postage stamps. Try some. Different sizes, too.
> And you ought to spend some of those US notes, rather than let them
> accumulate so much that you have to "rummage".
>
>>
Is there still a one cent stamp?
I wish I had spent more as the value of the US$ against the UK£ has
plummeted recently.
>> Have you ever heard of the expression "move with the times", you must be
>> sad that barter is no longer with us and that we no longer live in caves.
>> Billy
>
> Gee, no. I've never heard of that expression. Are you saying we should
> have "moved" with certain other countries? By the way, check how the
> economies of those other advanced countries are doing compared to ours.
> If you know how. The US must be wallowing in the dumps, based on your
> assessment of our pace with the world.
>
> Bruce
>
The better the US economy performs then the more useless the one cent coin
and one dollar bill becomes, but you must be aware of that already surely?
Billy
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
You're hitting it pretty much on the head, IMO. Way down the list of
priorities on the government's money waste list. Any cost savings by not
printing dollar bills would be diluted by the fact that we'd still be
printing six other denominations, and eliminating one of them wouldn't
silence the presses nor provide more money for pork pies. The only real
savings would come by not printing ANY currency. That may yet come in some
of our lifetimes.
Bruce
note.boy
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:04:54 GMT, "note.boy"
> <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>> By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
>>
>>You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you would.
>
> I wonder why more than half of US currency is
> oversees, banks all over the world request dollars from
> the New York Federal Reserve, they have a warehouse
> with skids of currency stacked 10 or 15 meters high just
> to provide currency to foreign banks on request.
>
> Is it because it is so backward?
>
> Frankly, the US coins are fine, the quarter is really
> all that is needed for parking meters and most machines
> here, and making exact change seems to be the fastest
> and least troublesome way to do business.
> Maybe if all Americans were liberals, they wouldn't
> care if they got exact change or not.
>
> It isn't likely we will do things just because others
> think we should, making auto parts metric was a huge
> mistake costing Americans billions, with no advantage,
> it didn't help sell American cars overseas.
American cars don't sell overseas because we have corners in Europe and
American cars go round corners very badly, and the interior quality is
dreadful, and they use too much fuel, and most of them are very ugly. Billy
note.boy
News flash for Joe.
The bigger a country's economy the less need there is for low value notes
and coins.
So why is the one cent coin and one doller note still being produced? Billy
Bruce Remick
When I went to the UK last October on vacation, the only £2 coin I
encountered the whole time was at the currency exchange at Dulles Airport as
I was getting ready to leave. Not a one in country. I do like their £1
coins. I would think that a small thick coin like that would have a better
chance of being accepted here in the US than the ones we have to choose from
now.
Bruce
Mr. Jaggers
Yup.
James
Bruce Remick
>
> "Joe Fischer" <j...@westpointracing.com> wrote in message
> news:sivqr2t9hi3pf9kvb...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, Padraic Brown <elem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?
>>>
>>>Well, mine (US near DC) for one.
>>
>> That's the reason. :-) In the real world homes
>> do not have a media price of $500,000 or more (except
>> maybe in San Francisco, DC, and a few other places,
>> and money is tight, real tight, mostly because of the
>> price of gasoline.
>
> It's not the price of gasoline that's causing the problem, if it was we
> would all be destitute here in the UK, cars in the USA have very large
> engines that burn a lot of it, that's the problem. If a USA motorist was
> to buy a car that had twice the MPG then in effect their gasoline costs
> would half.
The UK has better public transportation options than the US, and tries to
conserve gasoline by taxing the hell out of it and out of anyone who insists
on driving a car into London, for example. Those who really need a car have
little choice but to consider mileage first. There are indeed a lot of big
cars with big engines here in the US, compared with most other countries.
This may be due to the greater use of the car or SUV here for long family
trips on interstate highways. In many European countries, there are
convenient and traditional rail options for this kind of travel. If we
could buy a car here that gets twice the mileage and which would serve all
our other needs, many would.
>> The average person earns $9 an hour if the
>> professionals are not included, which is hardly
>> enough to avoid becoming homeless.
>>
>> Why should somebody who spends every
>> cent they have before the next payday worry about
>> "real money"?
>>
>> Any attempt to change anything in an
>> economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
>> would be foolhardy,
>
> In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a
> problem with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar
> bill?
Probably because 99% of the US public doesn't see their cent and the dollar
as a problem. Walk in our shoes for a while if you can.
>
>>
>> And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
>> market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
>> coins to become worthless.
>
> If they were indeed "worthless" why is the dealer offering to sell them,
> have you never seen a USA coin in a junk box? Of course you have but that
> doesn't mean that the US dollar is worthless does it.
Because he doesn't want to just throw them away, and there are always new
collectors who will pay a small price for hours of entertainment sorting and
cataloging minor coins from foreign countries. US coins in a US coin
dealers "junk" box? Well, we don't consider them junk, for one, unless
maybe they have been mutilated. What you *will* often find are circulated
obsolete US minor coins (Indian cents, Buffalo nickels, etc.) in a bargain
box.
>
> A 1793 chain cent was recently auctioned in the UK for £9,200, it was
> bought at a jumble sale in 1960 for very little, the seller at that time
> must have presumed it was worthless, but they were wrong. Billy
>
Your point here?
Bruce
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
You are correct of course but this is a coin NG so it is relevant.
I believe that GWII is rather expensive so why does the USA Government not
take a few simple steps to save a lot of money by dumping the one cent coin
and one dollar note? I know the answer of course, they are politicians and
have no common sense. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
>> As silliness goes, demand that the cent should exist is pretty much a
>> lightweight, and, if you want to talk in terms of waste of taxpayers'
>> money, hardly even registers on the radar, comparatively speaking.
>>
>> James
>>
>
> You are correct of course but this is a coin NG so it is relevant.
>
> I believe that GWII is rather expensive so why does the USA Government not
> take a few simple steps to save a lot of money by dumping the one cent
> coin and one dollar note? I know the answer of course, they are
> politicians and have no common sense. Billy
What is GWII?
As far as our politicians are concerned, I'm going to guess that they are
aware of the tax savings that could be effected, but also that they are
aware of the likelihood and impact of public outcry. Even politicians have
to choose their battles.
James
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>I can understand the need for a very low value coin in third world countries
>but not in one of the richest country on the planet the USA, it just silly
>and a waste of taxpayers' money. Billy
There are other reasons to have a coin than need,
and the reason the US may be as "rich" as you say is
because people saved those cent coins and either put
the money in a bank which was loaned to somebody
to go into business or build a house or buy a car.
For instance, my aunt never made over $2.00
an hour, worked 37 years, and left an estate worth
more than $250,000.
Even in the last few years before she died,
all coins went into a piggy bank, and when it got
full, they were rolled and deposited.
She attached no significance to the coins
or how they looked, except that 100 cents made
a dollar, 20 nickels made a dollar, 10 dimes
made a dollar, 4 quarters made a dollar, and
two halves made a dollar.
She also bought US Savings Bonds when
she had enough in the bank, and bonds bought
in the 1940s and 1950s became worth 10 times
cost when they were supposed to stop collecting
interest after 40 years.
Cents add up to dollars, and with enough
dollars, people think you are rich.
Coins are for use to make change and to
make transactions easier with completion on the
spot, without any silly rounding or fixing prices
to "almost" complete the transaction except
for the big chore of using cents.
The cent is worth more than the Japanese
Yen, and worth a hundred basic monetary units of
some countries in Asia.
The cent is the real money.
Joe Fischer
note.boy
You obviously have NO idea of the percentage of total production of paper
notes in the USA that's taken up by printing the useless one dollar note so
your IMO should read IMOTCROTTOMHAIJALOHA, In My Opinion That Came Right
Off The Top Of My Head And Is Just A Load Of Hot Air.
Have a guess, it's one of these, 0%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% 100%. Two of the
choices were deliberately included to confuse you, can you tell which two?
So we are now looking for you to make three choices. The two deliberately
confusing choices and the correct % figure.
You don't half post a load of ignorant nonsense, I just been down to the
basement and held a discussion with a cardboard box and it made more sense
than you do. Billy
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>The ò coin is not terribly common in circulation in the UK and know a lady
>who saves all she gets, sometimes exchanging two ñ coins for one, and she
>cashes them in at Christmas and holiday time. Billy
Right, the little old ladies saving and scrimping are
the real money dynamos.
Joe Fischer
note.boy
My first ever experience of spending USA money was at that airport, I bought
a frozen yoghurt.
I was there for just a few hours and spent most of that looking for any sign
of Mulder and Scully.
A small thick one dollar coin is definitely the way to go.
I probably see just 3 or 4 £2 coins in a week. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
Well, now, there's a generalization, if I ever saw one. And with just a
soupçon of condescension to boot.
Can you cite 1) statistics which enumerate the origins of all vehicles on
European highways, country by country, 2) market analyses which reflect the
motivations of the buyers and drivers of those vehicles, and 3) reports from
entities that exhaustively test, review, compare and contrast vehicles as to
their qualities, such as does Consumer's Union?
James
note.boy
Public transport in the UK is very expensive compared to the USA and Canada,
if more than one person is travelling going by car is cheaper even at 88p a
litre for petrol, and more confortable, more reliable, and faster. The UK
government treats motorists like a big fat cash cow.
Diesel engines are not popular in the USA and I don't know why as the MPG
for the heavy vehicles popular there would be greatly improved over petrol.
>
>>> The average person earns $9 an hour if the
>>> professionals are not included, which is hardly
>>> enough to avoid becoming homeless.
>>>
>>> Why should somebody who spends every
>>> cent they have before the next payday worry about
>>> "real money"?
>>>
>>> Any attempt to change anything in an
>>> economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
>>> would be foolhardy,
>>
>> In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a
>> problem with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar
>> bill?
>
> Probably because 99% of the US public doesn't see their cent and the
> dollar as a problem. Walk in our shoes for a while if you can.
>
Do they not wonder why they have jars of one cent coins all over the place?
>>>
>>> And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
>>> market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
>>> coins to become worthless.
>>
>> If they were indeed "worthless" why is the dealer offering to sell them,
>> have you never seen a USA coin in a junk box? Of course you have but
>> that doesn't mean that the US dollar is worthless does it.
>
> Because he doesn't want to just throw them away, and there are always new
> collectors who will pay a small price for hours of entertainment sorting
> and cataloging minor coins from foreign countries. US coins in a US coin
> dealers "junk" box? Well, we don't consider them junk, for one, unless
> maybe they have been mutilated. What you *will* often find are circulated
> obsolete US minor coins (Indian cents, Buffalo nickels, etc.) in a bargain
> box.
>
>>
>> A 1793 chain cent was recently auctioned in the UK for £9,200, it was
>> bought at a jumble sale in 1960 for very little, the seller at that time
>> must have presumed it was worthless, but they were wrong. Billy
>>
>
> Your point here?
>
> Bruce
>
The point is that the presence of a country's coin in a dealer's junk box
has no bearing on the strenght or weakness of that country's currency.
Joe's opinion was that it had. The example of the 1793 cent is a good one.
Just ask if you any more difficulty following the flow of this thread and
I'll do what I can to assist. Billy
Dik T. Winter
> In article <45bc2393$0$16556$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> conta...@this.ng says...
...
> > >>('cause I'd lose AUD$8 exchanging it for real spending money)
> > >>
> > >>Anybody else?
> > >>
> > > i said country, not collective insanity.....(g)
> > > why would you lose $8? excange charge?
>
> > Yup.
>
> Actually, my understanding is that Australian banks also charge
> obnoxious fees for depositing international cheques.
Not only Australian banks. It is also common in Europe.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
note.boy
I get lists from some dealers who also deal in stamps and the envelope is
often covered in commemorative stamps up to 25 years old as they buy them
from "investors" at below face. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
>> You're hitting it pretty much on the head, IMO. Way down the list of
>> priorities on the government's money waste list. Any cost savings by not
>> printing dollar bills would be diluted by the fact that we'd still be
>> printing six other denominations, and eliminating one of them wouldn't
>> silence the presses nor provide more money for pork pies. The only real
>> savings would come by not printing ANY currency. That may yet come in
>> some of our lifetimes.
>>
>> Bruce
> You obviously have NO idea of the percentage of total production of paper
> notes in the USA that's taken up by printing the useless one dollar note
> so your IMO should read IMOTCROTTOMHAIJALOHA, In My Opinion That Came
> Right Off The Top Of My Head And Is Just A Load Of Hot Air.
>
> Have a guess, it's one of these, 0%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% 100%. Two of the
> choices were deliberately included to confuse you, can you tell which two?
> So we are now looking for you to make three choices. The two deliberately
> confusing choices and the correct % figure.
Since there are paper notes other than the one dollar note, I will take a
chance and conclude that 0% and 100% are the two choices included to
confuse, deliberately or otherwise. Beyond that, I would only be guessing.
When you give the correct answer, could we please have a link to your
information source. Thanks!
Oh, by the way, we can and often do debate the convenience of paper vs.
coin, or the economy of paper vs. coin, but I simply don't understand the
charge that the one dollar note is "useless." It just doesn't match my
experience, sorry.
James
Bruce Remick
You keep expounding on what the US needs and what needs to be done there
while not living there as a daily user of its various monies. Who are you
to criticise us for not doing exactly what you do in the UK? Where are you
reading this stuff? How much are the savings if one of our seven paper bill
denominations is eliminated? And why do you care so much?
>
> Try responding directly to my comments above without flying off at a
> tangent, please.
>
> If you disagree with my statement, give the reasons, that's how a
> discussion works.
>
>>>
>>>>> Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
>>>>> circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?
>>>>
>>>> The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
>>>> other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better
>>>> not go there if it bugs you.
>>>
>>> Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.
>>
>> Were you able to use our backward currency to buy things? You must've if
>> you came back a couple times.
>>
>>>
>
> Yes and the one cent coin was a pain in the bum, I left behind several
> dozen when I headed for the airport, many are received in change but few
> are spent.
>
> Would you support the introduction of a 1/4 cent coin?
At the end of each day in the UK, I unloaded all the change in my pocket and
threw half of them-- the pesky and "useless" small denominations-- into my
suitcase to go into my foreign "junk box" when I got home. All countries
seem to have their "useless" coins, eh? I assume these small denomination
coins don't concern people in the UK, so their existance doesn't and
shouldn't concern me as a foreigner.
>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin)
>>>>> in 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one
>>>>> dollar note) in 1967.
>>>>
>>>> So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still
>>>> has 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
>>>> People like to use them, I guess. Same here.
>>>
>>> If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
>>> millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.
>>
>> Did you just come in off the college picket line with that? We use all
>> of our coins and notes, as do people in all countries. You call that
>> wasting? Wait a few years and there will be no need for cash at all,
>> except for your "Lucys' Economic Advice 50¢" stand along the street
>> outside your house.
>>
>>>
>
> I've never been to college and never been on a picket line and I fail to
> see what that has to do with anything, or was that a pathetic attempt to
> introduce politics into the argument?
Sorry, I should have known. Again, the reason for your continued concern
about what our government spends our money on escapes me. You must be glad
you live in such an efficient country that wastes nothing.
>
> 100 years after cash has been abolished everywhere else I fear that the
> USA will still be using the one cent coin.
>
>>>>> The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?
>>>
>>> You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the solution.
>>
>> And the "problem" is? Are we not following the UK model correctly?
>
> The problem is that the USA goverment is ignoring the problem and so are
> you, no matter how times it's brought to your attention you fail to
> acknowledge its existance.
The problem is that the US govt is ignoring the problem? Hmmmmm. You
still haven't explained what the "problem" is that you perceive we have.
From another country thousands of miles away you keep harping on the notion
that we have a serious "problem" here and our government is ignoring it.
Have you experienced it? Have you learned this from US citizens? BBC?
You need to have a cup of coffee or do a little gardening or something.
There has to be some local problem just waiting for you to point it out.
>
>>
>>>>> The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point
>>>>> of view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very
>>>>> attractive issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three
>>>>> different banks that change fairly regularly. Billy
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none
>>>> get lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged
>>>> by size in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one
>>>> denomination with another. I think our bills look just fine, too,
>>>> pretty much the way our money has looked for well over half a century.
>>>> Gives consumers confidence and comfort. Frequent currency design
>>>> changes can create confusion.
>>>>
>>>> Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins
>>>> in my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the
>>>> coins are made of.
>>>
>>> I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
>>> discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
>>> would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.
>>
>> Then you'll LOVE our postage stamps. Try some. Different sizes, too.
>> And you ought to spend some of those US notes, rather than let them
>> accumulate so much that you have to "rummage".
>>
>>>
>
> Is there still a one cent stamp?
Sure. They become most useful whenever the postal rates increase by a
couple cents. Stick them alongside old rate stamps you have left to make up
the difference. You imply we're wasting more money here?
>
> I wish I had spent more as the value of the US$ against the UK£ has
> plummeted recently.
The relative values don't matter much to the average Joe here.
>
>
>>> Have you ever heard of the expression "move with the times", you must be
>>> sad that barter is no longer with us and that we no longer live in
>>> caves. Billy
>>
>> Gee, no. I've never heard of that expression. Are you saying we should
>> have "moved" with certain other countries? By the way, check how the
>> economies of those other advanced countries are doing compared to ours.
>> If you know how. The US must be wallowing in the dumps, based on your
>> assessment of our pace with the world.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
> The better the US economy performs then the more useless the one cent coin
> and one dollar bill becomes, but you must be aware of that already surely?
> Billy
Why is this so important to you? Why do you worry so much about what coins
and bills we produce? I LIVE here and I don't see this as a problem. Sure,
our cent is close to valueless, but it's still necessary to make exact
change and people seem to want their exact change. Maybe that bothers you
too. The day our dollar bill ever becomes "useless" will be the same day
all money becomes useless, and I don't plan to be around for that.
Bruce
Bruce Remick
There's no "tongue in cheek" symbol after your post, so I have to presume
you really believe all what you said. Here I thought I was exchanging posts
with someone who had at least a little clue. No challenge or fun anymore.
Bruce
Bruce Remick
Shhhhh. Because consumers and merchants here use them? Shhhhh.
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>News flash for Joe.
>
>The bigger a country's economy the less need there is for low value notes
>and coins.
Most sales are less than $5, and people wait for
exact change because all prices are in dollars and
cents. With at least 50 different states with different
sales tax amounts, there is little chance of having prices
include the tax, and the Federal Government has __NO__
control over activity within a single states borders.
>So why is the one cent coin and one doller note still being produced? Billy
Because the bosses in the US, who are the _people_
want them. The Treasury is charged with providing the
people with the coins and currency they want.
Your idea of waste is much like the concepts used
by efficiency experts. It is usually sterile and doesn't
take into account all the reasons for doing things a
certain way or having denominations as they are.
People in different countries have different habits
and attach importance to different things.
There was a time when men in the US carried
a change purse and fumbled in it to make exact
change so it wouldn't get too full.
That ended by about WWII in the US, since
then coins have become "change", not money to
spend, people saved different denominations for
different reasons, and most either keep a supply
of coins in the car or leave them at home until
they have enough to bother with depositing.
It is a way of life, with possibly 6 or 8
purchases a day, and the coins are just a simple
way to get full value for the money spent, they
are change, they are not money as such now.
I have my grandfather's change purse,
it would be a huge chore for me to try to use
it, and with a wallet and cell phone, it would
just be too much extra baggage, when I get
to the car, I put the change in a cup holder
and put a wadded paper napkin on top so
nobody sees them, and I use them to make
purchases in drive-ins rather than deposit
them in a bank.
In the US, the people are in charge,
and the Constitution prevents just any nut
elected to congress from constantly changing
things except when the activity crosses a
state line.
What it amounts to is that the form of
the money is a nothing consideration, more
important things exist, and whatever form
the money is in, works just fine.
In actuality, eliminating the use of the
cent or the dollar bill would cost the treasury
extra money for a number of years.
This is the same situation with both
business and the public, there are things
that could be more efficient, but would cost
more money up front or for a period of time,
so efficiency has to wait.
This is a horrible situation with cars,
they were designed and built when oil was
$3 a barrel and cost 10 cents to pump out
of the ground.
People have a gas guzzler, and the
cost of buying a new car to get better mileage
is not possible, they don't have the money,
and they can't make the payments.
Things are changing slow, as people
can afford it, there are more used cars now
that get better mileage, and it takes 20 years
to replace all the 200 million cars with more
efficient ones.
The US has a lot of assets, but is not
a land where everybody is super rich, and
sometimes it is difficult to manage the way
to finance something more efficient or better.
I consider the present coinage mildly
interesting, but on a per capita basis, the
cost is minimal, I would gladly pay the $2
per person per year spent on paper dollars,
and pay the 20 cents per person loss
to mint the cents with present metals.
But there are hundreds of things more
important than what kind of money is used.
I waste about $2 a day drinking diet soda,
and 80 cents a day eating Reese Cups, and
maybe $3 a day just driving someplace because
I am bored, I could quit all those, and I will if I
ever have to quit, but it isn't a big deal at the
moment.
Joe Fischer
Michael G. Koerner
> "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> The UK has better public transportation options than the US, and tries to
>> conserve gasoline by taxing the hell out of it and out of anyone who
>> insists on driving a car into London, for example. Those who really need
>> a car have little choice but to consider mileage first. There are indeed
>> a lot of big cars with big engines here in the US, compared with most
>> other countries. This may be due to the greater use of the car or SUV here
>> for long family trips on interstate highways. In many European countries,
>> there are convenient and traditional rail options for this kind of travel.
>> If we could buy a car here that gets twice the mileage and which would
>> serve all our other needs, many would.
>
> Public transport in the UK is very expensive compared to the USA and Canada,
> if more than one person is travelling going by car is cheaper even at 88p a
> litre for petrol, and more confortable, more reliable, and faster. The UK
> government treats motorists like a big fat cash cow.
>
> Diesel engines are not popular in the USA and I don't know why as the MPG
> for the heavy vehicles popular there would be greatly improved over petrol.
The problem here is that the automakers are still jittery because of the
dreadfully bad way that they tried to introduce diesel engines into cars back
in the 1970s and 1980s (think 'big-rig truck in a small box').
Yes, I know that it has been several decades since that debacle, but memories
are long in the minds of those whom cynically complain the loudest here.
I'd love to see 'Euro-diesels' being made widely available here and I am fully
aware of the fact that they are absolutely unlike anything from back then.
>>>> The average person earns $9 an hour if the
>>>> professionals are not included, which is hardly
>>>> enough to avoid becoming homeless.
>>>>
>>>> Why should somebody who spends every
>>>> cent they have before the next payday worry about
>>>> "real money"?
>>>>
>>>> Any attempt to change anything in an
>>>> economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
>>>> would be foolhardy,
>>> In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a
>>> problem with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar
>>> bill?
>> Probably because 99% of the US public doesn't see their cent and the
>> dollar as a problem. Walk in our shoes for a while if you can.
>>
>
> Do they not wonder why they have jars of one cent coins all over the place?
See my many rants on this subject in other threads.
;-)
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Bruce Remick
First, I wish you'd enlighten us here in the US as to why the dollar bill is
useless and where you are getting this information. Here in the US, we
consider it one of the most commonly used of our paper bills, and thus the
cost of the paper it is printed on (a renewable source) is justifiable.
>
> Have a guess, it's one of these, 0%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% 100%. Two of the
> choices were deliberately included to confuse you, can you tell which two?
> So we are now looking for you to make three choices. The two deliberately
> confusing choices and the correct % figure.
>
> You don't half post a load of ignorant nonsense, I just been down to the
> basement and held a discussion with a cardboard box and it made more sense
> than you do. Billy
NOW I understand where you're getting your information. Why didn't you say
so earlier?
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Well spotted on the two deliberately confusing choices. :-)
It is probably more accurate to say "relatively useless" as I could
certainly find a use for 1,000,000 of them. Billy
Bruce Remick
Why should they wonder? I have one. My wife has one of her own. We roll
up the booty every so often and cash it for useless dollar bills. What's to
wonder about? We enjoy it. We enjoy even more our jars of nickels, dimes,
and quarters when the time comes to cashing them in. Like "found money".
>>>>
>>>> And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
>>>> market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
>>>> coins to become worthless.
>>>
>>> If they were indeed "worthless" why is the dealer offering to sell them,
>>> have you never seen a USA coin in a junk box? Of course you have but
>>> that doesn't mean that the US dollar is worthless does it.
>>
>> Because he doesn't want to just throw them away, and there are always new
>> collectors who will pay a small price for hours of entertainment sorting
>> and cataloging minor coins from foreign countries. US coins in a US coin
>> dealers "junk" box? Well, we don't consider them junk, for one, unless
>> maybe they have been mutilated. What you *will* often find are
>> circulated obsolete US minor coins (Indian cents, Buffalo nickels, etc.)
>> in a bargain box.
>>
>>>
>>> A 1793 chain cent was recently auctioned in the UK for £9,200, it was
>>> bought at a jumble sale in 1960 for very little, the seller at that time
>>> must have presumed it was worthless, but they were wrong. Billy
>>>
>>
>> Your point here?
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
> The point is that the presence of a country's coin in a dealer's junk box
> has no bearing on the strenght or weakness of that country's currency.
> Joe's opinion was that it had. The example of the 1793 cent is a good
> one.
It appears obvious to me that the dealer had no clue he had a rare American
coin. Thus a cherrypicker was able to spot it for what it was. Nothing to
do with the weakness of US currency.
> Just ask if you any more difficulty following the flow of this thread and
> I'll do what I can to assist. Billy
Sure. Now that I know where to get such good information.
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:SBmvh.56511$oA1....@newsfe19.lga...
>> You're hitting it pretty much on the head, IMO. Way down the list of
>> priorities on the government's money waste list. Any cost savings by not
>> printing dollar bills would be diluted by the fact that we'd still be
>> printing six other denominations, and eliminating one of them wouldn't
>> silence the presses nor provide more money for pork pies. The only real
>> savings would come by not printing ANY currency. That may yet come in
>> some of our lifetimes.
>> Bruce
>
>You obviously have NO idea of the percentage of total production of paper
>notes in the USA that's taken up by printing the useless one dollar note
You obviously think the dollar note could be
stopped and all the other notes would still only cost
the same to print.
First, the US treasury does not pay to print
the notes, the Federal Reserve Bank pays actual
estimated printing costs for all currency, and turns
profits over to the treasury at the end of the year.
If no dollar notes were printed, the cost
of the overhead to run the BEP would not change
all that much, but people would need to be laid off.
If no cents were struck, more than half
the floor space at the mints would be unused,
half the machines would be idle, and half the
people would be laid off.
Those laid off would be eligible for
unemployment, so the government would still
be paying them for a while and the government
would not be collecting income tax or Social
Security taxes from them.
The thing is, there are more than enough
cents in circulation, and sooner or later, there will
not be a need to mint more, but the metal prices
are causing a problem.
Maybe after 2009 when the Lincoln is
101 years old there will be no need for more and
the celebration of his life will be complete with the
2009 cents.
But it is a peanut problem, the loss to the
treasury for minting cents is less than the average
person loses in coins in car seats and furniture.
Joe Fischer
Ed Hendricks
> American cars don't sell overseas because we have corners in Europe
> and American cars go round corners very badly, and the interior
> quality is dreadful, and they use too much fuel, and most of them are
> very ugly. Billy
What a snob you are! That statement is so full of BS that it smells. Are
you trying to piss off those non-European folks in this group by
deliberately using generalizations and unfounded claims? First of all, you
imply that there is no "overseas" except Europe. And that there are no
"corners" in the US. And that ALL US made cars are poor quality, gas
guzzling and ugly. All of which, of course, reflect a subjective opinion.
One person's "dreadful and ugly" is another person's dream machine. I
certainly agree that many US car models display a need for
improvement......no vehicle from any country is perfect. But, being a
Capitalist, I prefer to let the market drive those changes.....not the
opinion of someone in the UK.
--
忽帕
~
Ed Hendricks
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>A small thick one dollar coin is definitely the way to go.
There is a coin machine lobby in Washington
that would bug congress forever to prevent changing
the size of the dollar coin, the cost to modify changers
would be huge.
Frankly, I think just making existing nickels
worth a dollar would be perfect.
And maybe make the cent worth 50 cents
and round to the nearest dime.
But then the mint couldn't make 500 million
profit on minting the dime, quarter, half and dollar
coins, and some people look at the big picture,
500 million profit, even after paying for the cents.
Joe Fischer
Mr. Jaggers
I've found many a use for just one of two of them. Probably will again,
later today.
James
Mr. Jaggers
> I waste about $2 a day drinking diet soda,
> and 80 cents a day eating Reese Cups, and
> maybe $3 a day just driving someplace because
> I am bored, I could quit all those, and I will if I
> ever have to quit, but it isn't a big deal at the
> moment.
Aw come on, Joe, I was with you until you started calling Reese Cups a
waste. Or in my case, a waist? Oh, never mind. 8>)
James
note.boy
You do indeed have NO idea of the % of total production of the one dollar
note so have a go at spotting the two deliberately confusing choices that
were included.
Yup, been down to the basement again and the cardboard box STILL makes more
sense than you do, do you actually READ my replies or do you just randomly
thump your keyboard.
Yes paper is a renewable resource but the fuel used in the making and
transportation is not. Trees have to be cut down, transported and process
into paper, the paper then has to be transported to the printing works and
printed, more energy used in the actual printing process, the notes then
have to be distributed. There is then more fuel used to withdraw and
process the worn out notes. I'm astounded by your ignorance, did you think
that the Papermoney Fairy magically turned trees into one dollar notes and
then back to trees again when they become worn?
I will try AGAIN to explain to you how a discussion works.
I post a comment, if you disagree you say so and explain why you disagree.
I then reply giving the reasons why I think you are wrong, and it carries on
like that.
So for starters have a guess at the answer to the % question as you ignored
it when asked the first time. I'll give you a clue, "blackbook". Yes the
bible is often black but that's the wrong book so don't waste time looking
there.
Your lack of ability to construct an informed argument probably means that
most are now skipping this thread. Billy
Joe Fischer
<note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote:
>Diesel engines are not popular in the USA and I don't know why as the MPG
>for the heavy vehicles popular there would be greatly improved over petrol.
In case you don't know, every single heavy vehicle
in the US has a diesel engine.
But I still hate them, in 1951 the two brands of
buses I drove were Twin Coach and White, the White
was diesel in a heavy bus, while the Twin was aluminum
with a gas engine and air ride.
You failed to mention the engine that gets the
best mileage, it is electric, like in EV, or HEV, but
one of the things holding back full production of
electric vehicles is the price and supply of copper,
too much is being used in coins.
Joe Fischer