Sewing your own runners?
payne
Hal Murray wrote:
>
> In article <338e3a0c...@news.prodigy.net>, JeffRaph...@prodigy.com (Jeff Raphelson) writes:
>
> > Does anyone do this? Is it worth it?
>
> It isn't worth it for me, but then I have a job.
>
> If you are really interested in that, take a look
> at a commercial sling. Count the threads and look
> at the size of each thread. You need to end up
> with something similar.
>
> I suggest you break a few before you risk your neck
> on anything you make yourself. If I was doing it, I'd
> make up one with half as many threads and see how well
> that worked for calibration.
>
> I broke one for somebody a few years ago. It went at
> something like 1200 pounds.
/Back when I climbed I sewed quite a few. I found an article in a mag
(thinks maybe it was Summit??) on how to sew the runners. I had a number
of them broken at Forrest Mountaineering. None of them broke at the
sewen joint. All broke just behind the pin, at the same place where all
commercial runners broke. I don't recall the break figures but it was
equal to the break strength of non-sewn runners. Only a few of them had
any stitches broken in the seams. Daryl
Jeff Raphelson
Does anyone do this? Is it worth it?
Can I use a conventional sewing machine? Do I need to use Kevlar
thread?
Any tips or instructions for me?
Hal Murray
> Does anyone do this? Is it worth it?
It isn't worth it for me, but then I have a job.
John Byrnes
> Can I use a conventional sewing machine? Do I need to use Kevlar
> thread?
> Any tips or instructions for me?
Go for it! We've already determined that there's too many climbers.
- Lord Slime
anon
Ignore Lord Slime, although he may be right about too many climbers.
Sorry, I cannot provide you with the magazine reference. Nylon thread is
fine-no reason for the thread to be stronger than the sling. Without
digging out my old climbing equip, as I remember, the method was to sew
parrallel stitches about 2-3 inches long, about 1/8 inch apart, with no
bar tacking or anything fancy like that. If you decide to sew away just
have a few tested first. Daryl
Jason Bevington
You may be right, but why not just buy them pre made? They aren't that
expensive in the forst place. I think the companies have patterns for the
stiching so the strength is comparable from sling to sling.
Thom Iwancio
In article <338e3a0c...@news.prodigy.net>, JeffRaph...@prodigy.com (Jeff Raphelson) wrote:
>Does anyone do this? Is it worth it?
>
>Can I use a conventional sewing machine? Do I need to use Kevlar
>thread?
>
>Any tips or instructions for me?
middle. Insert one end inside the other about 3-4" and then walk the knot
down so that it is over the doubled area. Bomber strength, no un-sightly
loose ends and a nice compact knot. Just check every so often to make sure
your knot has not travelled. You'll have to feel through the tube to check
the inside portion,
Thom
Perhaps Chris could show us an ascii drawing
anon
Jason Bevington wrote:
>
> You may be right, but why not just buy them pre made? They aren't that
> expensive in the forst place. I think the companies have patterns for the
> stiching so the strength is comparable from sling to sling.
wanted something I couldn't buy, such as some specialized runners for
ice climbing. Or when I wanted all my runners to be the same color and
could find what I wanted in the store/ daryl
> >
anon
I used this all the time. It's just like a water knot only the follow
through is inside the tubular webbing inside parralleling it on the
outside. For some strange reason I occassionally sewed thru the ends but
I believe this was totaly necessaryl, as there is absolutely no way this
knot can slip if you leave several inches of tail inside the webbing..
And best of all-- no tail/ Daryl
Robert Seafler
>> > Does anyone do this? Is it worth it?
>>
>> > Can I use a conventional sewing machine? Do I need to use Kevlar
>> > thread?
>>
>> > Any tips or instructions for me?
>>
>>
>> - Lord Slime
>
>Sorry, I cannot provide you with the magazine reference. Nylon thread
is
>fine-no reason for the thread to be stronger than the sling. Without
>digging out my old climbing equip, as I remember, the method was to
sew
>parrallel stitches about 2-3 inches long, about 1/8 inch apart, with
no
>bar tacking or anything fancy like that. If you decide to sew away
just
>have a few tested first. Daryl
One thing you need to remember is that when you sew your own
runners, you need to have a fan or something to keep the needle cool,
or else you will get a small melt-down in the area in which you are
sewing. The webing will start to melt inside where you can not see it,
thus a weak point at where it is sewn. As far as the stitching to use,
I think Daryl has it down pat.
Robert Seafler
trail...@juno.com
the gear connection
BD,MSR,Trango,Crazy Creek,Mountain Hardwear,Marmot,Blue Water,Cascade
Designs,Leatherman,LaSportiva,Dana Design.
Hans Solmssen
Jason Bevington <jb...@post1.com> wrote:
> You may be right, but why not just buy them pre made? They aren't that
> expensive in the forst place.
It's a good idea to have slings you can open to use in a variety of
situations. Tying two together to make a longer sling and passing the
end through a hole are two examples. So you don't necessarily want to
carry only sewn slings.
Hans
--
ha...@axiom.ch
Verbier Switzerland
http://www.climbnet.com/LaFantastique
Hans Solmssen
Hans Solmssen
Simon Isbister u
"Jason Bevington" (jb...@post1.com) wrote:
: You may be right, but why not just buy them pre made? They aren't that
: stiching so the strength is comparable from sling to sling.
Price isn't the only issue- for instance, when I made a ledge, I had access
to all sorts of metal working equipment, but I didn't have an industrial
sewing machine. Clearly, knowing the strongest patterns to stich was very
key, both for the surface area, but also for the suspension- I tried
tying, but with six-point suspencion, that got way too bulky.
-simon-
Kenneth Cline
In article <338FAA...@ricochet.net>, anon <d...@ricochet.net> writes:
|> John Byrnes wrote:
|> >
|> > Jeff Raphelson (JeffRaph...@prodigy.com) wrote:
|> > > Does anyone do this? Is it worth it?
|> >
|> > > Can I use a conventional sewing machine? Do I need to use Kevlar
|> > > thread?
|> >
|> > > Any tips or instructions for me?
|> >
|> > Go for it! We've already determined that there's too many climbers.
|> >
|> > - Lord Slime
|>
|> Ignore Lord Slime, although he may be right about too many climbers.
|> Sorry, I cannot provide you with the magazine reference. Nylon thread is
|> fine-no reason for the thread to be stronger than the sling. Without
|> digging out my old climbing equip, as I remember, the method was to sew
|> parrallel stitches about 2-3 inches long, about 1/8 inch apart, with no
|> bar tacking or anything fancy like that. If you decide to sew away just
|> have a few tested first. Daryl
Although he wasn't talking about climbing, I think something James Thurber said
is very relevant here:
Get it right or let it alone
The conclusion you jump to may be your own
Mkword
Sewing your own runners?
Man ... this is weird ... only on the internet.
Dude ... spend the two bucks and devote the time
saved to climbing.
Jason Bevington
> It's a good idea to have slings you can open to use in a variety of
> situations. Tying two together to make a longer sling and passing the
> end through a hole are two examples. So you don't necessarily want to
> carry only sewn slings.
I agree, many of my larger slings are tied ones.. but I would definitly not
consider sewing them myself. just tie them or buy them...
Greg Opland
Robert Seafler wrote:
> Ignore Lord Slime, although he may be right about too many climbers.
> Sorry, I cannot provide you with the magazine reference. Nylon thread
> is fine-no reason for the thread to be stronger than the sling. Without
> digging out my old climbing equip, as I remember, the method was to
> sew parrallel stitches about 2-3 inches long, about 1/8 inch apart, with
> no bar tacking or anything fancy like that. If you decide to sew away
> just have a few tested first. Daryl
Yeah, go ahead, ignore Slime. Go friggin' kill yourself. Actually
Slime is way right about lots of idiotic ideas tossed out on this
group. Most of his target posters and some sensitive individuals
take offense at the rather blunt way he chooses to tell them just
how idiotic he thinks they are. So be it. No sense beating around
the bush. Slime's been climbing (and skiing!) safely in both
backcountry and backyard crags for the last 20 years and knows
what he's talking about.
Sew your own slings?? Jeezuz, you gotta be kidding. If you want to
advocate suicide, there's probably a group somewhere on the net
for that specific purpose. Climbing, as a safety intensive sport,
is no place to skimp and save.
For the guy who wants to kill himself...I mean sew his own slings:
This is your life you're talking about here. Sewn slings are cheap
and safe/reliable (provided you inspect them from time to time and
retire as needed). Climbing is a game of risk management. Why choose
to climb on gear you can't depend on?
Go buy some slings. Please. Or go find the guy that was going to
build his own cams and you guys can climb together.
G.
And my "don't post" therapy was going so well...
Note: the reply address needs to read "...honeywell.com"
Too many annoying spammers, so I added the xxx.
Bob Harrington
In article <339428E6...@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.xxx.com>,
Greg Opland <opl...@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.xxx.com> wrote:
>For the guy who wants to kill himself...I mean sew his own slings:
>This is your life you're talking about here. Sewn slings are cheap
>and safe/reliable (provided you inspect them from time to time and
>retire as needed). Climbing is a game of risk management. Why choose
>to climb on gear you can't depend on?
I dunno. With an industrial machine that's all set up for sewing
webbing, it's pretty easy to sew strong loops. I sewed lots of
loops onto Friends, because they didn't used to come with presewn
loops, so you either had to sew your own or have a few cubic feet of
water-knots on the rack. If somebody is contemplating sewing some
runners on mom's Singer, they might be in for some trouble, but I
don't buy this notion that homemade gear is intrinsically suicidal.
They just need to track down somebody with a bar tacker.
But I kind of agree with you. It's like resoling your own shoes --
there are people who can do a great job for a reasonable price, so
why do it yourself?
Bob
Teresa Drag
Just want to emphasize a few key points you made Bob, you have an
indutrial stitcher. If someone has acces to that type of machine or a
bar tacker and plans to do some significant custom gear mods or what you
did with the friends, that is all well and good, but the original
questioner seems more of the type to be trying to save a dew pannies at
the expense of his life. I guess there's hope he was misinformed and
will learn from reading here. Otherwise I hope he does himself in early
without taking out others - preferable where EMS can get to him without
having to endanger rescuers also.
Ter
Patrick C Leger
r...@f1n7.U.Arizona.EDU (Bob Harrington) writes:
> But I kind of agree with you. It's like resoling your own shoes --
> there are people who can do a great job for a reasonable price, so
> why do it yourself?
Some people just enjoy doing things themselves. I built an electric
bass (the instrument, not the fish) last summer, for instance. Sure,
I could've bought a better one, and it would've only cost about $1300
(vs. the $700 I spent), but I get a sense of satisfaction knowing I
did it myself. I'm not quite as inspired by the resole job I did
(ugly, but perfectly functional--and hey, they're just shoes), but the
cost savings was similar ($20 for the resole kit, and I've got enough
rubber for another resole).
Chris
Michael and Beth Lane
In article <MnZfYQW00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Patrick C Leger
<bl...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
You won't wind up a bloody mess of broken bones and ripped flesh amidst a
pile of talus if your bass doesn't work properly. Homemade, sewn slings
can most definitely fail in a manner that will kill you.
And unlike resoling shoes, if your shoes delam on a pitch, you've got
problems, but you're entire well-being doesn't rely on a peeling piece of
rubber.
I can't believe how often this comes up. I gotta think it's more
frequently flame-bait than anything else. Either that or there are some
truly naive people who are climbing.
I work in the climbing industry and know to what extent these pieces of
climbing gear are scrutinized, tested, engineered and re-designed. The
manufacturers aren't simply slapping a bunch of stitches into nylon to
close a loop and sending them to your local retailer! You can't possibly
duplicate the strength and integrity of a real sewn sling on a home
machine. Period. An industrial machine still can't duplicate the stitch
patterns and density preferred by reputable sling makers. Even if you've
got a bartack machine, not all of them are built to sew approved
climbing-grade bartacks. Some produce less-dense bartacks than others.
Some melt the nylon and thread as they stitch.
These are life-critical applications, people. These things only cost a few
bucks, each! Buy the real thing. Don't dick around. I don't want to see
anyone get hurt, but more pertently, every crash and burn by a climber
causes the authorities to consider whether climbing is a desirable
activity on the crags. Don't threaten access for the rest of us by
half-assing your gear selection.
Bob Harrington
In article <melane-0506...@ts001d17.lax-ca.concentric.net>,
Michael and Beth Lane <mel...@concentric.net> wrote:
:I work in the climbing industry and know to what extent these pieces of
:climbing gear are scrutinized, tested, engineered and re-designed. The
:manufacturers aren't simply slapping a bunch of stitches into nylon to
:close a loop and sending them to your local retailer! You can't possibly
:duplicate the strength and integrity of a real sewn sling on a home
:machine. Period. An industrial machine still can't duplicate the stitch
:patterns and density preferred by reputable sling makers. Even if you've
:got a bartack machine, not all of them are built to sew approved
:climbing-grade bartacks. Some produce less-dense bartacks than others.
:Some melt the nylon and thread as they stitch.
:
:These are life-critical applications, people. These things only cost a few
:bucks, each! Buy the real thing. Don't dick around. I don't want to see
:anyone get hurt, but more pertently, every crash and burn by a climber
:causes the authorities to consider whether climbing is a desirable
:activity on the crags. Don't threaten access for the rest of us by
:half-assing your gear selection.
Ah, so anyone who makes their own gear rather than buying it from you
is threatening access? What do you think people did before there was
a "climbing industry"? They used their brains.
With regard to your last paragraph, as a member of the climbing industry,
do you really consider access more pertinent than whether or not
people get hurt? Geez, maybe I really should start making my own stuff.
Here's a proposition: people who have the initiative, curiosity, creativity,
and intelligence to *competently* make their own gear are generally
safer climbers than people who blindly assume a piece of gear must be
safe because they bought it in a store.
Cheers,
Bob
John Byrnes
Michael and Beth Lane (mel...@concentric.net) wrote:
> I can't believe how often this comes up. I gotta think it's more
> frequently flame-bait than anything else. Either that or there are some
> truly naive people who are climbing.
I'd rephrase that to be:
"..there are some truly naive people who are (still) alive."
- Lord Slime
Patrick C Leger
mel...@concentric.net (Michael and Beth Lane) writes
> In article <MnZfYQW00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Patrick C Leger
> <bl...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> > Some people just enjoy doing things themselves. I built an electric
> > bass (the instrument, not the fish) last summer, for instance. Sure,
> > I could've bought a better one, and it would've only cost about $1300
> > (vs. the $700 I spent), but I get a sense of satisfaction knowing I
> > did it myself. I'm not quite as inspired by the resole job I did
> > (ugly, but perfectly functional--and hey, they're just shoes), but the
> > cost savings was similar ($20 for the resole kit, and I've got enough
> > rubber for another resole).
> >
> > Chris
>
> You won't wind up a bloody mess of broken bones and ripped flesh amidst a
> pile of talus if your bass doesn't work properly. Homemade, sewn slings
> can most definitely fail in a manner that will kill you.
>
> And unlike resoling shoes, if your shoes delam on a pitch, you've got
> problems, but you're entire well-being doesn't rely on a peeling piece of
> rubber.
Hmm...I guess I should've stated that I wouldn't do sewn slings
myself. Just the shoes and the bass! I was mainly responding to the
previous poster's statement about resoling, not the DIY slings.
Chris
Bill Zaumen
In article 05069707...@ts001d17.lax-ca.concentric.net, mel...@concentric.net (Michael and Beth Lane) writes:
> In article <MnZfYQW00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Patrick C Leger
> <bl...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
> > > But I kind of agree with you. It's like resoling your own shoes --
> > > there are people who can do a great job for a reasonable price, so
> > > why do it yourself?
> >
> can most definitely fail in a manner that will kill you.
>
Before sewn slings were available commercially, we made our own, and they
never failed. We used tubular webbing, and pushed one end inside the other,
for a 4 or 5 inch overlap, and then sowed it together with nylon thread,
some of us using a machine and some a speedy stitcher (with the small needle
and standard nylon thread). For the speedy stitcher, you want 4 inches of
stiching, with 4 rows, and with stiches about 1/8 inches apart (as close as
reasonably possible), and with knots in the end of each row. When the
last row went in, it was a lot harder to push the speedy stitcher because
the whole thing had tightened.
This can admittedly be a lot of work, but we tested it when I was in
grad school (one climber was studying metalurgy, and had access to the
right equipment). The tests were on new slings and on ones that had
been used for a while. In all cases, the stitching held, and the webbing
broke instead (with new 1 inch tubular webbing, the failure occured at
a force of 6 or 7 thousand pounds).
I think the main reason for buying the slings is that they are now
available at modest costs, but people had used homemade ones for years
before that, and there were even articles in climbing magazines telling
how to do it. This was all before spectra webbing was available, and
that type of webbing might behave differently.
Bill
Alex Rast
In article <melane-0506...@ts001d17.lax-ca.concentric.net>, mel...@concentric.net (Michael and Beth Lane) wrote:
>In article <MnZfYQW00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Patrick C Leger
><bl...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>frequently flame-bait than anything else. Either that or there are some
>truly naive people who are climbing.
>
>climbing gear are scrutinized, tested, engineered and re-designed. The
>manufacturers aren't simply slapping a bunch of stitches into nylon to
>close a loop and sending them to your local retailer! You can't possibly
>duplicate the strength and integrity of a real sewn sling on a home
>machine. Period. An industrial machine still can't duplicate the stitch
>patterns and density preferred by reputable sling makers. Even if you've
>got a bartack machine, not all of them are built to sew approved
>climbing-grade bartacks. Some produce less-dense bartacks than others.
>Some melt the nylon and thread as they stitch.
It seems to me unthinkable that you would choose to bartack with a home sewing
machine. I agree this would be like asking for suicide. But what if you
*hand-stitch* the bartack? With a long thread you have enough leverage to get
the stitch tension as high as you please. So that won't be an issue. A while
back I got to thinking about the problem in general. It seems to me, that
simply based on the differences between a hand stitch and a machine stitch, a
hand stitch should, in theory, be stronger and more reliable than even the
best machine stitch. Especially with judicious choice of stitch. I decided for
curiosity's sake to test this hypothesis. (I've never used a hand-sewn to
climb, but did make up a few expressly for the purpose of testing their
failure characteristics.) When I tested them out, inevitably the material
itself would fail before the stitches. AFAIK, on commercial sewn runners,
the stitches fail first. But I can't claim to have rigorous data (not enough
experiments and not a sufficiently controlled environment.) What do you think?
Would it be possible to make stronger slings by careful hand-sewing or is this
still most likely impossible?)
>
>These are life-critical applications, people. These things only cost a few
>bucks, each! Buy the real thing.
Now here's the real issue. My trials were interesting and perfectly safe. No
one was at risk (since no one was on the slings). But I'm not an expert. I
would NEVER place my life in the hands of anything I wasn't certain I knew ALL
the characteristics of if I made it myself. And why make unnecessary
compromises to save a nickel? The bottom line is, you can't look at dollars
when making a buying decision. You have to look at *value*. And there is no
sense in trying to improve on stuff designed and manufactured by experts to
save a few dollars. The value just isn't there, especially in view of the
risk.
Alex Rast
ar...@inficom.com
John Byrnes
Bob Harrington (r...@aruba.u.arizona.edu) wrote:
I usually agree with you Bob, but not this time.
> Ah, so anyone who makes their own gear rather than buying it from you
> is threatening access? What do you think people did before there was
> a "climbing industry"? They used their brains.
Yes, we used our brains and tied knots in our slings.
> With regard to your last paragraph, as a member of the climbing industry,
> do you really consider access more pertinent than whether or not
> people get hurt? Geez, maybe I really should start making my own stuff.
Com'on! His point was that anyone who gets hurt/killed affects access
for the rest of us. If it was just the person sewing the slings that
was affected, then let'em do whatever they want.
> Here's a proposition: people who have the initiative, curiosity, creativity,
> and intelligence to *competently* make their own gear are generally
> safer climbers than people who blindly assume a piece of gear must be
> safe because they bought it in a store.
How many teenage, penniless, novice climbers do you think have the
equipment, experience and brains to *competently* make sewn slings?
- Lord Slime
Bob Harrington
In article <5n9bbg$g...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>,
No problem. I agree that commercially sewn slings are a
bargin and more reliable that what you'ld do at home or
on your buddy's industrial rig. But I dispute the notion
that it's impossible/suicidal to sew them yourself. I
don't particularly advocate that anyone actually go out
and sew their own, but when a "member of the climbing industry"
says the idea is unthinkably dangerous, not only are they
being condescending and disingenuous, they're wrong.
Bob
Mad Dog
Bob Harrington wrote:
> I agree that commercially sewn slings are a
> bargin and more reliable that what you'ld do at home or
> on your buddy's industrial rig. But I dispute the notion
> that it's impossible/suicidal to sew them yourself. I
> don't particularly advocate that anyone actually go out
> and sew their own, but when a "member of the climbing industry"
> says the idea is unthinkably dangerous, not only are they
> being condescending and disingenuous, they're wrong.
Agreed. About 10 years ago, I sewed a bunch up on our Singer
light-weight Zig Zag. I tested 10 or so of them and they ALL broke
above the rated strength of the webbing. None of them failed at the
stitching. I still keep some of them in the truck and have used them to
haul vehicles out of ditches, drag large tree stumps, etc. None have
failed yet. I didn't make my own because I was being cheap - I did it
because I was curious.
Mad "You shoulda seen the crotchless pitons we made back then" Dog
Clmbr1
BD uses special air cooled needles and computer aided machines to get the
strongest tack. When you consider all the trouble that you have to go thru
to save a couple of bucks. I would rather spend my time on the crag with
something that I know works.
CC
Ken Pisichko
This thread has surfaced several times. A couple (I think???) of years ago
the consensus was don't bother making them yourself.
Lord Slime told it the way it is - the person with no
experience/background/equipment cannot do the sewing the way a
manufacturer can.
Think of it: you want to save a few dollars by sewing your slings/quick
draws etc.
Why not also save a few dollars by making your own biners using a
hibachi to heat (and temper/aneal) 8" spikes and coat-hanger wire to make
your own wire-gated 'beaners???
Crazy, you say??? Welllll maybe so, but then.......
What about your proposal to sew your own slings in a "Singer" or other
sewing machine?
The life you save WILL be your own.
Ken
John I Quist
Greg Opland (opl...@saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.xxx.com) wrote:
: Sew your own slings?? Jeezuz, you gotta be kidding. If you want to
: advocate suicide, there's probably a group somewhere on the net
: for that specific purpose. Climbing, as a safety intensive sport,
: is no place to skimp and save.
alt.suicide.holidays ?
/John.
--
"I like them but when I hit them they scream and run away
even though I say I'm sorry. I like meeting people."
- The Sugarcubes
Michael and Beth Lane
In article <5n6n4n$pbu$1...@news.ccit.arizona.edu>, r...@aruba.u.arizona.edu
(Bob Harrington) wrote:
> In article <melane-0506...@ts001d17.lax-ca.concentric.net>,
> Michael and Beth Lane <mel...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> :I work in the climbing industry and know to what extent these pieces of
> :climbing gear are scrutinized, tested, engineered and re-designed. The
> :manufacturers aren't simply slapping a bunch of stitches into nylon to
> :close a loop and sending them to your local retailer! You can't possibly
> :duplicate the strength and integrity of a real sewn sling on a home
> :machine. Period. An industrial machine still can't duplicate the stitch
> :patterns and density preferred by reputable sling makers. Even if you've
> :got a bartack machine, not all of them are built to sew approved
> :climbing-grade bartacks. Some produce less-dense bartacks than others.
> :Some melt the nylon and thread as they stitch.
> :
> :These are life-critical applications, people. These things only cost a few
> :bucks, each! Buy the real thing. Don't dick around. I don't want to see
> :anyone get hurt, but more pertently, every crash and burn by a climber
> :causes the authorities to consider whether climbing is a desirable
> :activity on the crags. Don't threaten access for the rest of us by
> :half-assing your gear selection.
>
> Ah, so anyone who makes their own gear rather than buying it from you
> is threatening access? What do you think people did before there was
> a "climbing industry"? They used their brains.
Before the industry emerged, there were far fewer climbers. There was also
more of a sense of apprenticeship that occurred between climbers that
doesn't seem to exist much now. These days, rock climbing is being touted
as the cool sport by Mountain Dew, Seinfield and prescription medications
(seen that commercial where the guy in the suit is climbing the desert
tower?). Now, the majority of new climbers seem to be in a rush to the
crags without benefit of proper instruction -- either from more
experienced climbers (real experience, not just a few months under their
belts) or from instructors trained in how to teach climbing. Suggesting
that these new climbers also start by building their own gear, sewing
their own harnesses, is lunacy.
> With regard to your last paragraph, as a member of the climbing industry,
> do you really consider access more pertinent than whether or not
> people get hurt? Geez, maybe I really should start making my own stuff.
With regard to my last paragraph and every other paragraph, I was speaking
as an individual climber; I don't care to comment for the industry. The
death of someone I don't know won't affect me. Their unwise actions which
close my crag do affect me. Therefore, the latter _is_ more pertinent to
me. Sorry my feel-good antennae are down.
> Here's a proposition: people who have the initiative, curiosity, creativity,
> and intelligence to *competently* make their own gear are generally
> safer climbers than people who blindly assume a piece of gear must be
> safe because they bought it in a store.
This is a feeble proposition. How do you know you are "competently" making
your own gear? Besides, until you can quantifiably prove this through
testing all that homemade gear and the climbers who are using it, common
sense indicates that professional manufacturers (with livelihoods to make
and lawsuits to avoid) continue to produce more reliable and quality gear
than can be made at home.
I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. You seem to be awfully
cynical of this industry.
Saumyen Guha
In article <5n70ra$f...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>,
John Byrnes <byrne...@fc.hp.com> wrote:
>"..there are some truly naive people who are (still) alive."
Uh..the ones that give the theologians a chance to disprove
natural selection.
Species name : 'Home Stupidience'
Area : All over the world !
Guranteed sighting : Everest base camp, Mt. Mckinley West Buttress
base camp, around Mt. Washington.
later,
-Saumyen
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Saumyen Guha | Princeton University
E-mail : sg...@princeton.edu | Civil Eng., E. Quad.
Phone #: (609)258-5037 | Prospect Avenue
Saumyen Guha
In article <5nmk92$ln1$1...@cnn.Princeton.EDU> I wrote:
>Species name : 'Home Stupidience'
Uh.. Homo Stupidiens...someone corrected me :)
Jeffrey Papen
There should be a law against such mindless waste of bandwidth. The
Internet would server a greater purpose transmitting kiddie porn than
this drivel. Just buy damn things.
Climbing has a proud tradition of the rich and privileged purchasing
all the gear they could possibly need, plus 15% before heading out.
The poor slobs who needed to beg, borrow, or steal a patheticlly
inadequate rack only bring shame to our great sport. Anyone who needs
(or even wants) to sew their own runners should take up jogging or
swimming. No gear needed there. I climber's true meddle is measured
by the size of their rack, not what they can scramble up. Assuming
that you have the free time to construct sew runners, and then test
their strength, you should spend it more constructively - rap bolting.
There are so many classic routes out there that need more bolts on
them. You should take all that extra time and evergy and bolt the
hell out of every classic line. Start with every route that has more
than 10 feet of runout, then work on crack climbs.
Enough of my public service announcement.
- Jeffrey
Snowhat7
About this whole thing. Why bother sew your own.... For the money, It's
pointless. And if you die, you make all us climbers look bad. so just go
to the store and bye tested, safe runners.
Dave Hughes
Umm, yeah, great, nice of you to come to the same conclusion as everyone
else, about 2 weeks after the event.......
Hey Slime, was that OK?
Dave
ObClimbing - Sent the first boulder problem in about 10 minutes, and
then spent an hour and a half working the second one :-(
--
David Hughes
Email: da...@es.su.oz.au
"Against boredom even the gods themselves
struggle in vain" - Nietzsche
John Byrnes
Dave Hughes (da...@es.su.oz.au) wrote:
> Snowhat7 wrote:
> > About this whole thing. Why bother sew your own.... For the money, It's
> > pointless. And if you die, you make all us climbers look bad. so just go
> > to the store and bye tested, safe runners.
> Umm, yeah, great, nice of you to come to the same conclusion as everyone
> else, about 2 weeks after the event.......
> Hey Slime, was that OK?
When you can snatch the caustic sarcasm from my hand, you will be
ready to leave, Grasshopper.
- Lord Slime
Geoff Clitheroe
Dave Hughes wrote:
> Hey Slime, was that OK?
You want to be like Slime?
Must have been putting your head through the airport scanner again...