The Legacy of Christian Griffith
Dingus Milktoast
post, it is just that.
But I'm serious too. Given it some thought and all. My recent quip about
cg's lycra clad ass got me to thinking about cg's other contributions to the
sport.
You're laughing! Stop that! I'm serious. Now I don't pretend to be an expert
on Front Range climbing of any kind, not to mention the historical context
of the rise of sport climbing.
Sport climbing arise in a few areas at about the same time: Watts at Smith
Rock, Todd Skinner out of the back of his truck and a few Boulderites on the
Front Range. In that context it seems to me that cg played a prominent role
in at least the consolidation of sport climbing, if not the initial rise in
popularity. I know he wasn't alone, he wasn't cranking the hardest lines and
he didn't invent anything with respect to climbing.
But he did help popularize sport climbing through his writings. His
flamboyant style and self aggrandizement went a long way toward
mainstreaming things. And then there is his clothing line...
I'm thinking / suggesting that cg helped or played a role in the following
sport climbing milestones:
1. Was an early adopter of the sport climbing ethic and a vocal one at that.
He ably defended top down bolting and hang dogging as necessary tools for
that style of climbing.
2. Went out of his way to bolt or work highly controversial routes in the
front range area, such as Rainbow Wall.
3. Got his pics plastered throughout the mags, showing the highly visual
"Wow" nature of hard sport routes (as well as that classically chiseled
ass).
4. Penned the classic "Manifesto," which John Sherman deliciously lampooned
in "Man He Fester." This "flame war" (what else could you call it?), played
out in a national climbing magazine, a clash betwixt the old and the new
ethics, is a classic. Funny that what, 10 years time, has shown cg to be
absolutely correct. It has also seen a relaxation of Sherman's original
ethics in response to a similar change going through the bouldering world.
So, let's hear the cg stories! Debunk what I have said! Tell me cg was of no
consequence, that he left no lasting impression on our sport. I'd like to
think it true, but then again, it doesn't bother me that the opposite is in
fact the truth: Christian Griffith let a permanent mark, a laundry ink pen
stain if you will, on our sport. Just his ass alone would have been
something...
Your thoughts?
DMT
Wiclimber
called it J'Taime, "I love You"
It quickly became known as a beutiful line with hideous bolt placements. Seems
he couldn't get it right even "en rappel".
His best line in Eldo is perhaps the one directly above Le Boomarang. I'd try
and spell it but would be too butchered for anyone to understand it. In fact,
I think I'd have a better chance climbing it than spelling it (thats not good
considering my climbing ability). Anyhoo, it IS a classic line and well bolted
from what I hear.
Rainbow Wall was considered by Patrick Edlinger to be "easy 13" and well
bolted. I over heard him say that as my dog tried to eat his poodle.
CG was a hero to the mid-late 1980s sport climbing generation in Boulder. I've
since left that scene and have no idea what people think of him now.
In my opinion he was motivated, had vision and a keen eye for classic sport
routes.
Problem is, I can't find any of his 5.10 routes to critique, so my opinions are
based merely on heresay. I'll be the first to admit that's not worth much!
a
Dingus Milktoast
"Wiclimber" <wicl...@aol.comdyno> wrote in message
news:20020513141400...@mb-ch.aol.com...
> Christian bolted a line to the right of C'est La Vie just for you DMT.
He
> called it J'Taime, "I love You"
Now you stop that! I loved the ass, not the man!
Yes, I am an assman (wasn't that a Kauk route at Smith Rock?). Know how
I know? All my friends, they tell me,
"Dingus, your an ass, man."
DMT
Clint Cummins
in his tighty-whiteys (briefs) or even his thong, to cut down on weight.
Quite entertaining (at least to read about it).
One CG rapbolted route, the Doub-Griffith, was answered with
a Derek Hersey bold trad route, Dubious Grafitti!
I found his writing entertaining as well. Not the mag flamefests,
but the trip report on sport climbing at Buoux with Dale Goddard.
I especially liked the aspects where he attempted to diet, and he tried
to fiddle with superglue to make his fingers pointed to fit into the
pockets!
This is starting to sound like a eulogy, though. Is CG any
relation to Brittany Griffith, whose photo seems to appear in
every issue of Climbing?
Clint Cummins
Sue
<none@yabis> wrote:
> Now you stop that! I loved the ass, not the man!
Stoppit Dingus. The ass in a thong is appalling. Yeacch.
In my opinion the spectrum of burly manhood is epitomized by an issue
of climbing mag from 1998 or so. I have it at home if someone wants the
exact issue, but I bet if you've seen it you'll remember it. It's a
classic.
On the cover is Jeff Schoen. His fingers are heavily chalked, and
inserted into a beautiful 5.12 Needles finger crack. Looks like he's
got a bomber lock. His jet black hair flirts with the breeze. His gear
sling ripples across his broad chest. He has a nut in his teeth.
Swoon, swoon, swoon. That is the sound of Sue and Amanda and Colleen
swooning. Swoon, swoon, swoon. The epitomy of beautiful burly
manhood. sigh. Now THERE is a man. signh sigh sigh.
Open the mag up turn to the middle to the pics, and what do you have?
The opposite end of the spectrum. CG is a thong, pointing his toe to
flag on some boulder problem. If I could duplicate the sound of a cat
retching up a hairball with my keyboard i would make it now in response
to the memory of that photo:
retch hairball+vomit, hairball vomit, hairball vomit.
Ok I feel better now.
S
Will Niccolls
"Clint Cummins" wrote
> One CG rapbolted route, the Doub-Griffith, was answered with
> a Derek Hersey bold trad route, Dubious Grafitti!
Easy there. You do a disservice by taking the context away from the first
ascent of Doub-Griffith.
The Doub-Griffith should should not be mistaken for a sport route. Its 11c
S, and although one pitch was rappel bolted, the first pitch is a difficult
to protect crack done by Eric Goukas and Eric Doub when they were 15 or 16
years old. The following pitches were freed by Doub and Griffith and
involve a few bolts with plenty of bold runouts on 5.10 and 5.9 climbing.
Further, its a stretch to call Dubious Grafitti an "answer" to
Doub-Griffith. It was free climbed NOT by the late Derek Hersey but by
Jeff Achey and Dan Stone in 1985. Both routes are classics and anyone who
has climbed them can attest to their bold nature and should respect the
accomplishments of all the first ascensionists.
Perhaps you are confusing Dubious Graffiti with Hersey's "To RP or not to
be" in the same area of the cliff.
Although he doesn't compare to Hersey in the soloing department, remember
that Griffith has climbed plenty of very scary routes, including an early
ascent of Perilous Journey, rated 11+ and with "imaginary pro". I've seen
him solo up and down more routes in a day on the Bastille than many people
climb there in a season. For those who wish he'd turned his energy to
increasingly scary difficult routes, reconsider. He would have been
limiting himself to 5.12--how many 13 s or x routes are out there? Where do
you thing athletic climbers should go after they exhaust the last 5.11
finger crack in their area?
My own encounters over the years in Boulder with Chrisitian have been fun
and inspiring. In Rifle once he happened to belay me on my hardest route
ever, and I was inspired enough to send it on my second attempt. He nearly
always remembered my name after that, especially if I happened to be
accompanied by a pretty girl.
> This is starting to sound like a eulogy, though. Is CG any
> relation to Brittany Griffith, whose photo seems to appear in
> every issue of Climbing?
No.
Will Niccolls
Clint Cummins
and Dubious Grafitti. I was attempting to repeat some secondhand
info I had heard some years ago. Thanks for setting this straight.
Do you know more about the origins of the Dubious Grafitti
route name? I.e. was it in jest of the bolts used on the upper
pitch of Doub-Griffith?
I also agree with you that increasingly bold routes are not
the best goal for the future of the sport.
Clint Cummins
Will Niccolls
"Clint Cummins" <cl...@Stanford.EDU> wrote in message
news:abpmr5$q4d$1...@usenet.Stanford.EDU...
>
> Do you know more about the origins of the Dubious Grafitti
> route name? I.e. was it in jest of the bolts used on the upper
> pitch of Doub-Griffith?
It may have been less than a good natured pun, but I prefer to believe it
was merely clever a play on words of no ill will. Of course there is a long
tradition in
climbing of creating puns from other route names. Here's a few in
Colorado: Robbins freed "Kor-Turner" and renamed it Turnkorner. Hersey's
aforementioned "To RP or Not to Be". "Bachar Yer Aryan" is a wonderful name
in Eldo from the Yosemite "Bacher-Yerian".
Will Niccolls
rick
Dingus Milktoast wrote:
>
> But he did help popularize sport climbing through his writings. His
> flamboyant style and self aggrandizement went a long way toward
> mainstreaming things.
"My buttcheeks look like two clinched fists"
come on, cg!
d
Geoff Battin
>
> Now you stop that! I loved the ass, not the man!
I always knew you northern californians were a bunch of
packers.
BatO
Charles Vernon
> "Clint Cummins" wrote
>
> > One CG rapbolted route, the Doub-Griffith, was answered with
> > a Derek Hersey bold trad route, Dubious Grafitti!
>
> Easy there. You do a disservice by taking the context away from the first
> ascent of Doub-Griffith.
>
> The Doub-Griffith should should not be mistaken for a sport route. Its 11c
> S, and although one pitch was rappel bolted, the first pitch is a difficult
> to protect crack done by Eric Goukas and Eric Doub when they were 15 or 16
> years old. The following pitches were freed by Doub and Griffith and
> involve a few bolts with plenty of bold runouts on 5.10 and 5.9 climbing.
> Further, its a stretch to call Dubious Grafitti an "answer" to
> Doub-Griffith.
<snip>
Which pitch on the Doub-Griffth was rap-bolted?? I thought the whole
thing was done on lead?
From what I can tell (having only been very near the route) Dubious
Grafitti actually is the logical 2nd pitch to the D-G, turning it into
a direct and continuous 5.11. Originally it moved hard right to do
the easy pitch on Super Slab and then hard back left.
Charles
Michael A. Riches
geoff...@hatemail.com wrote on 5/14/02 12:04 PM:
Wellll, there goes the "Determined to rid the group of bullies"
bullshit....I knew it wouldn't last...snicker. Soooooo, BattOn just how does
it feel to be right there, amongst the bullies of the group...??? (Yer in a
real good crowd, by the way...Snicker, snicker)
Ratzzz....
JKVawter
> In my opinion the spectrum of burly manhood is epitomized by an issue
> of climbing mag from 1998 or so. I have it at home if someone wants the
> exact issue, but I bet if you've seen it you'll remember it. It's a
> classic.
>
> On the cover is Jeff Schoen. His fingers are heavily chalked, and
> inserted into a beautiful 5.12 Needles finger crack. Looks like he's
> got a bomber lock. His jet black hair flirts with the breeze. His gear
> sling ripples across his broad chest. He has a nut in his teeth.
> Swoon, swoon, swoon. That is the sound of Sue and Amanda and Colleen
> swooning. Swoon, swoon, swoon. The epitomy of beautiful burly
> manhood. sigh. Now THERE is a man. signh sigh sigh.
>
> Open the mag up turn to the middle to the pics, and what do you have?
> The opposite end of the spectrum. CG is a thong, pointing his toe to
> flag on some boulder problem. If I could duplicate the sound of a cat
> retching up a hairball with my keyboard i would make it now in response
> to the memory of that photo:
> retch hairball+vomit, hairball vomit, hairball vomit.
>
> Ok I feel better now.
My wife is puzzled by this. I showed her the cover shot of Schoen, and the
artful pic of CG poised mid move in a G-string. She says: both have
beautiful bodies. If anything, CG's shot, which is much more revealing,
shows a more impressive physical specimen. So the difference here is a pair
of pants? Or the haircut? Or the G-string? What if the shot of CG was butt
naked? A male Stone Nude? Would that evoke the same retching of hair
balls? What if I told you that Jeff prefers tighty whiteys to boxers?
Inquiring minds . . .
JKVawter
Sue
<jkvawt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> My wife is puzzled by this. I showed her the cover shot of Schoen, and the
> artful pic of CG poised mid move in a G-string. She says: both have
> beautiful bodies. If anything, CG's shot, which is much more revealing,
> shows a more impressive physical specimen. So the difference here is a pair
> of pants? Or the haircut? Or the G-string? What if the shot of CG was butt
> naked? A male Stone Nude? Would that evoke the same retching of hair
> balls? What if I told you that Jeff prefers tighty whiteys to boxers?
> Inquiring minds . . .
>
> JKVawter
Interesting question. I've never me either guy, don't have an opinion
on either one. I was reacting purely to the photographic image. It's
strange that two photos, that provoke such divergent thoughts, should
be in the same issue of a mag. It's the G string that's the problem.
no question.
What ever Jeff Schoen prefers to wear, eg TW vs Boxers, as intriguing
as thought as it is, is as it should be, a mystery to me. His
photograph (to me) shows a man who is totally absorbed in the *climb*.
The CG photo, because of that damn thong, reads, to me, as here is
a man that is totally absorbed in *himself*.
nothing worse than a good looking man who thinks he's good looking. It
would be better if he was butt naked. but he's not. he's wearing (here
we go again) a ...retch...gag...THONG.
Julie
> JKVawter <jkvawt...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
> > So the difference here is a pair of pants? Or the haircut? Or the
> > G-string? What if the shot of CG was butt naked? A male Stone Nude?
> > Would that evoke the same retching of hair balls? What if I told
> > you that Jeff prefers tighty whiteys to boxers?
>
> intriguing as thought as it is, is as it should be, a mystery to me.
> His photograph (to me) shows a man who is totally absorbed in the
> *climb*. The CG photo, because of that damn thong, reads, to me,
> as here is a man that is totally absorbed in *himself*.
Guy cleanching gear in teeth == much hotter than guy clenching floss in
butt.
JSH
Melissa
"Julie" <jh...@fu.bu.edu> wrote:
>Guy cleanching gear in teeth == much hotter than guy clenching floss
>in butt.
Brilliant! (And true.)
Melissa
Cartman
> butt.
>
> JSH
Note to self, less time in gym, more time at dentist.
Mad Dog
>Guy cleanching gear in teeth == much hotter than guy clenching floss in
>butt.
Didn't Confuscetta say that first?
Of course, Christian's breath smells like he flossed his teeth second.
My favorite CG story happened at the Derek Hersey memorial at Eldo. Christian
spoke and was listing off his (own, how tacky is that?) impressive list of
impressive climbs and mentioned Rainbow Wall. Numerous folks in the crowd
reminded him that Rainbow wasn't his FFA. Check out BC South for the most
bizarre climbing guide FFA description ever. One thing worse than the
hyperactive vanity mode is when you suck the guidebook author in with you.
Wow, was that an unintentional pun? And, butt, also, name the dog "Mad". Just
doing my part to cross-polarize the thread drift.
Jeff Schoen
Not to be out done by CG in terms of boldness, I'll happily list my
undergarment assortment at the present.
1) A few pairs of tie died jockeys. I buy these on Telegraph Ave.
Berkeley.
2) Countless pairs of Costco select euro trash briefs, not a white one
in there.
3) Eddie Bauer, look like boxers, fit like jockeys. Recommended.
4) One pair of torn silk boxers with X and O that were given to me.
Should these be chucked?
The need to match underwear color to torn out trousers is a regular
concern in consideration of my belayers. The last pair of TW went out
with the white painter pants of the 70's era.
Jeff Schoen
JKVawter
> JKVawter <jkvawt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message [snip] What if I told you that Jeff prefers
> tighty whiteys to boxers?
> > Inquiring minds . . .
> >
> > JKVawter
>
> Not to be out done by CG in terms of boldness, I'll happily list my
> undergarment assortment at the present.
> 1) A few pairs of tie died jockeys. I buy these on Telegraph Ave.
> Berkeley.
> 2) Countless pairs of Costco select euro trash briefs, not a white one
> in there.
> 3) Eddie Bauer, look like boxers, fit like jockeys. Recommended.
> 4) One pair of torn silk boxers with X and O that were given to me.
> Should these be chucked?
> The need to match underwear color to torn out trousers is a regular
> concern in consideration of my belayers. The last pair of TW went out
> with the white painter pants of the 70's era.
>
> Jeff Schoen
Sorry Jeff. Didn't mean to put you on the spot. My bad. You're a good sport.
JKVawter
Julie
>
> Wow, was that an unintentional pun? And, butt, also, name the dog
> "Mad". Just doing my part to cross-polarize the thread drift.
A good pun is never unintentional.
JSH
Gnarling
> Not to be out done by CG in terms of boldness, I'll happily list my
> undergarment assortment at the present.
> 1) A few pairs of tie died jockeys. I buy these on Telegraph Ave.
> Berkeley.
more amusing personal undergarment descriptions followed...
Thanks for sharing, Jeff. I always wondered what was underneath those
cool Verve pants. I am truly disappointed that latex thongs are not
part of your underwear selection. Oh well, imagination is a good
thing.
Inez
Now in San Diego, missing all the pretty boys of Ironworks
Jason Lucero
Schoen <jef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm sticking with my Big Wall Briefs (dyed briefs) or my Batman silk
boxers. I'll be sporting Spiderman undies as soon as I can spot the
right style (no pun intended). Life is too short to not be weird.
J
Jason
--
"There is no spoon"
eric...@ecosmarthomes.com
1. Everything Will Niccolls wrote here is accurate. (The first pitch was indeed from the ground up, with Eric Guokas.)
2. I cleaned and rap bolted the top 2 pitches.
3. Some years later, in the late 1980s or early 1990s, someone added a bolt to the last pitch -- the first bolt after you leave the belay common to Super Slab. The runout was not of concern to me at age 17, on the FFA. "It's about 5.8" was what I said at the time, regarding what is now some kind of 5.10. Lidija Painkijer was heard to wail, upon leading up from the belay BEFORE the bolt was added, "This is not five eiiiiiight!"
4. Christian had zero to do with the route until I asked him to accompany me on the FFA. I led every pitch on the FFA. This was the last time CG was in that role -- after that, he trained like mad, I went off to Stanford, and he reached new heights of fitness and climbing performance.
itakethe...@gmail.com
Btw the American alpine club asked for that thong for thier perminate collection. Apparently it will soon be on display stuffed to size with several of Ben Moons dreadlocks which I removed with hedge sheers ...thank you very much.