Project Mayhem - Jim Beyer
Crotch Robbins
Is this guy for real, or is he full of shit?
Amazing stuff if it's true.
Crotch
Jason Liebgott
for those of us yet to read it, what's it about?
Melissa
cro...@pobox.com (Crotch Robbins) wrote:
>Did anyone else's jaw drop when they read the Jim Beyer piece in
>the new AAJ?
No, because I din't read it. Would you giving us a synopsis?
Melissa
Josh Beck
I guess I'll have to read it. He's for real AFAIK. FA of Intifada in
the Fisher Towers which got A6 - yup, no-fall anchors. It's been
repeated (Tim Wagner and Ben something-or-other sorry I can't
remember) and I do not know if either of them or anyone else who's
done it has questioned the grade.
josh
Crotch Robbins
> "Crotch Robbins" wrote ...
> > Did anyone else's jaw drop when they read the Jim Beyer piece in the new
> AAJ?
I'll fill in more tomorrow when I have the article with me, but it's
about an ascent of a new line on Mt. Thor, Baffin Island. Several
pitches of A5, lots more of A4. Beyer claims it's harder than
Reticent, and he put it up solo over two seasons in Baffin.
My description of the route is meaningless though, because the essay
reveals something of the mind of the dude who's standing on all those
head placements way out from a bullshit belay anchor.
Like I said, I'll bring it in to work tomorrow and type in a few
priceless excerpts to give you the feel. Oh, wait a minute, I didn't
say work did I? I don't read wreck.climbing at work. Honest.
Back again in the morning,
Crotch
Charles Vernon
Both of them have suggested the grade should be lower, in the A4+ to
A5 range. Ben Folsom (who I believe is the Ben you are thinking of)
wrote a description
at
http://www.climbingmoab.com/rock/db/fisher_towers/cottontail_tower/intifada.html
calling it A5. This page is worth reading as there are some very
interesting comments by Steve Bartlett, a veteran of hard desert aid,
regarding controversy surrounding the holes that Beyer drilled on the
FA. I don't do any hard aid, but I found them quite thought-provoking
regardless.
I don't really have any doubts from all that I've read that Beyer is
"for real", but one thing that seems to cause confusion is that he has
is own aid rating system, using the same A0-A6 designations, but
subdividing the harder grades from A3 up with letter grades as in free
climbing. So again, I'm no aid climber, but my understanding is that
A5 for Beyer might mean something different from what is commonly
accepting as A5 in Yosemite today. Isn't "new-wave" A5 (if it even
exists), supposed to consist of "a full pitch of un-enhanced
body-weight only placments"? That would certainly disqualify
Intifada.
OTOH, if you've ever stood at the base of Intifada and looked up at
it, as I have (the start is literally 2 feet from the nice trail),
you'll understand how incredibly sick it is, regardless of rating
system or drilled holes.
Charles "Armchair mountaineer"
Sketchball
> the Fisher Towers which got A6 - yup, no-fall anchors. It's been
> repeated (Tim Wagner and Ben something-or-other sorry I can't
> remember) and I do not know if either of them or anyone else who's
> done it has questioned the grade.
>
> josh
Climbing Mag I have sez Wagner said Intifada was A4+ - also that
Wagner said "there is no such thing as A5". But it also says that
Wagner said Intifada had lots of bolts (he was surprised) and that
Beyer calls a bolt ladder anything with 3 bolts in a row, so that 2
bolts, hook move, 2 bolts, head etc. does not count as a bolt
ladder???
Crotch Robbins
It makes for a nice read in bed or on the crapper, so pick it up. But
till you do, I'll tease you with some excerpts.
First thing to consider is that Beyer subdivides A5 into A5a, A5b,
A5c, and A5d. I have no clue what modern A3 feels like. I find it
astounding that there are fine gradations between death falls.
I'm not going to retype the story, and I don't want to give you too
much, because it's the totality of the tale that makes it incredible.
Here are a couple of paragraphs that struck me:
"One snow-covered slab was particularly memorable. Small stones were
frozen onto the slab, and these I cleared of snow, mantled, and stood
on. While on a 50-foot runout I encountered an "impossible move." No
holds and no possible friction on the wet slab. I couldn't down
climb, and a big fall in this situation would be fatal. I packed snow
onto the slab as a hold and--supergripped--mantled onto it."
"For this year's attempt I prepared in a manner similar to the year
before by soloing a hard El Cap route in the spring-this time a new A5
variation to Surgeon General. I also soloed an A6a test
piece-Canyonland's Outlaw Spire-that required not only extreme aid
expertise, but an ambivalence toward life that is refreshing."
Melissa
charle...@hotmail.com (Charles Vernon) wrote:
>So again, I'm no aid climber, but my understanding is
>that
>A5 for Beyer might mean something different from what is commonly
>accepting as A5 in Yosemite today. Isn't "new-wave" A5 (if it even
>exists), supposed to consist of "a full pitch of un-enhanced
>body-weight only placments"?
Perhaps the letters are meant to designate the dificulty of obtaining said
body weight placements...or placements that are body weight only if you hold
your breath and think nice thoughts about Jesus?
Melissa...who bounce tests A0
Nate B
"Charles Vernon"
> interesting comments by Steve Bartlett, a veteran of hard desert aid,
He hits it dead-on. New, hard aid routes tend to use fragile features that
end up getting bolted later, after they fall off or degrade. He's also
right about drilling holes that you don't fill - bad, bad practice.
> subdividing the harder grades from A3 up with letter grades
Validation of the ego. Yawn...
> Isn't "new-wave" A5 (if it even exists)
It doesn't, so they found, so they had to make something else up. New wave
is old now.
Aid climbing - sometimes it's all about coming down from the climb and
blowing smoke. Keep that aspect of the game in mind as you sort through the
bullshit.
- Nate
Josh Beck
> > Isn't "new-wave" A5 (if it even exists)
>
> It doesn't, so they found, so they had to make something else up. New wave
> is old now.
Just curious, what, if anything, if you have a strong enough
opinion/idea or care to venture it, constitutes A5 in the current
mindset/attitude. Obviously it'd vary from person to person, but just
curious...
Interesting comments and links all around on Intifada / Beyer / Fisher
aid routes /etc. Anyone know if there are any heinous routes on any of
the other fine mud and stacked bricks in the desert like in the
Mysteries, Canyonlands / Monument Valley (I'm guessing at least not
officially due to the clean-only climbing thing which I think applies
in Canyonlands NP) or elsewhere?
josh
jenifferjuniper
as if drilling should or could even be an issue there. and fill the
holes? with what...more mud? do a route there...come back a year
later and entire features are gone...fallen or eroded away. A3 in the
fishers was a whole other world from A3 in the valley. forget that he
drilled...and remember that very few of us if any could survive
walking in beyer's footsteps
jj
ps. i am an ethics freak but i swear that i fantasized about driving
1" re-bar feet deep into the crust and muck....and that was on an A2+
pitch
Dave Schuller
>Here's the scoop. To get the full flavor, you must read this thing.
>It makes for a nice read in bed or on the crapper, so pick it up. But
>till you do, I'll tease you with some excerpts.
>
>First thing to consider is that Beyer subdivides A5 into A5a, A5b,
>A5c, and A5d. I have no clue what modern A3 feels like. I find it
>astounding that there are fine gradations between death falls.
>
It's all A1 untill you fall, right? I find it odd to sub grade the aid
rating, especially with death falls or bad anchors being criteria.
Doesn't that mean that someone has to die to validate the grade?
>
>I'm not going to retype the story, and I don't want to give you too
>much, because it's the totality of the tale that makes it incredible.
>Here are a couple of paragraphs that struck me:
>
>"One snow-covered slab was particularly memorable. Small stones were
>frozen onto the slab, and these I cleared of snow, mantled, and stood
>on. While on a 50-foot runout I encountered an "impossible move." No
>holds and no possible friction on the wet slab. I couldn't down
>climb, and a big fall in this situation would be fatal. I packed snow
>onto the slab as a hold and--supergripped--mantled onto it."
>
>"For this year's attempt I prepared in a manner similar to the year
>before by soloing a hard El Cap route in the spring-this time a new A5
>variation to Surgeon General. I also soloed an A6a test
>piece-Canyonland's Outlaw Spire-that required not only extreme aid
>expertise, but an ambivalence toward life that is refreshing."
>
>
>
I read an article about him a while back. Was a nice enough read but
what was interesting were the cadre of letters to the editor in the
following issue. A few letters challenged some of his claims about the
seriousness of his routes. They argued about was it A4 or A6b and the
like. To me that's like arguing whether a route is 14a or 14c, there
both beyond my comprehension. The were also issues about bolts found by
second ascent parties about which when questioned about the he said
something like" if there are bolts up there then they must have put them
there."
I'm not questioning what a bad ass he is (I don't have what it takes to
do those things), he'd seems like an interesting personality. Does any
one here know him, climbed his routes, or knows a guy who heard from a
dude that...?
Dave
Dingus Milktoast
Child report from Climbing a few years back. It tackles Beyer's abortive
attempt on K2 and (I think) Broad Peak.
But his actions on that Himalyan trip included some serious blunders and
possibly suicidal impulses. He put the lives of other climbers in serious
jeapordy and demonstrated over and over some strong anti-social behavior.
It's no wonder he climbs alone...
DMT
Madbolter
That's a good story. Though I'd sure hate to be the person whose tent
Beyer crashed in on his way down...the one whose sleeping bag he
shat in. That would be a rude surprise to come home to...
Anti Social indeed.
-Rex Pieper
Jason Liebgott
No doubt that is a great story. I believe it's also in the high lonesome by
john long.
jason
Charles Vernon
> are y'all retarded or have you just not climbed in the fisher towers.
> as if drilling should or could even be an issue there. and fill the
> holes? with what...more mud? do a route there...come back a year
> later and entire features are gone...fallen or eroded away. A3 in the
> fishers was a whole other world from A3 in the valley. forget that he
> drilled...and remember that very few of us if any could survive
> walking in beyer's footsteps
I think you're missing the point. Did you look at the page on
climbingmoab? Steve Bartlett has done his share of big scary Fishers
climbs. Personally I don't question that Jim Beyer is a sick bold
climber, but the controversy seems to be about his tactics, and the
effect that not reporting them has on the repeat ascentionists.
It kinda sounds like you're criticizing Nate's comments, but the whole
point is that features disappear so rapidly in the Fishers. I think
what Nate meant about drilling and not filling was that it's a bad
practice to drill lots of holes (Beyer drilled 38 I believe), but not
fill them *with bolts or rivets*. In the sense that it totally
sandbags the second ascentionist, and what's more leads to his being
slandered. I think this is where the "blowing smoke" part comes in.
In any event, I feel a bit silly for continuing to particpate in this
discussion because I haven't done any hard aid (although I haved once
climbed in the Fishers). It fascinates me though to try and learn a
bit more about it.
Charles
Melissa
Dave Schuller <elj...@rocksportnv.com> wrote:
>he'd seems like an interesting personality.
I gleaned this tid-bit about him from a another forum, so take it with a
grain of salt, but I found this kind of an odd thing to do...something that
someone who was really worried about the nay-sayers would do...
I guess on a new A5 line that he put up on El Cap (Martyrs Brigade VII 5.11c
A5c R) he taped the loops on all the heads so no one could repeat the line
with a cheater stick.
That seemed like a 'hardman' version or repacking a crack with mud after
you've done the FA.
Melissa
Sketchball
I know guys who have done the same (taped hangers holes shut) on other
aid FA (Under The Gun, Squamish Chief for instance).
Personally I thought the strangest part of Beyers article in the AAJ
was his claim to have soloed 5.10 M6 with one tool and no crampons.
Hmmm?
The Child article referenced above does point out that in the past
Beyer has given pitches free ratings after aiding them and then
toproping them. In fact in the 2001 AAJ, referring to his new free
routes on Moran in the Tetons, he notes that the 5.12 and 5.11 pitches
were done on lead with hangs to drill every bolt "buut I dont need to
go back and redpoint them because it was harder to put the bolts in on
lead than it would be to repeat them without hanging" or words to that
effect.
Michael Boos
Crotch Robbins wrote:
> ... in the new AAJ?
John Harlin III as new editor has certainly checked this story
out prior to printing it - how could he afford other?
> Is this guy for real, or is he full of shit?
Well, nice description in a novel writing style - very
entertaining, Stephen King like with regards to the effect for
the readers - or is it? Nice also the aspect of his three year
old daughter's voice he was hearing ...
--
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L. Michael Boos
CH-8001 Zuerich
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