New Carbon Fiber Information

[cycl...@gmail.com]

A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other manufacturers.

Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with an aluminum frame.

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:48:20 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other manufacturers.
>
> Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with an aluminum frame.

Colnago doesn't have the know how to build light CF bikes that last and/or stiff enough so the answer of Ernesto doesn't surprise me.
Something like Kodak that didn't know anything about digital camera's.

Show me an aluminum frame of 850 grams. Any frame lighter than 1300 gram I prefer the CF one. YMMV.

Lou

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Lou - what frame of ANY sort weighs a lb and three quarters? I saw and Eddy Merckx aluminum frame and fork that weighed 4 lbs. On steel bike maker tells me that he is making 16 lb bikes all up.

What would YOU use a 12 lb all up bike for?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 6:48:20 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other manufacturers.
>
> Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with an aluminum frame.

I don't know how many of you besides Joerge make a habit of hard climbs. But light bikes do NOT make hard climbs much easier. In fact they add a lot of problems. Once the grade gets up to 18% you can't use low gears because on the light bikes it will lift the front wheel off of the ground. The bike will then pivot around the rear wheel and if you're ready for that you can lay the bike over before it turns down hill.

The way professional climbers get away with this is that they use LARGE gears. Then you don't have the leverage to lift the front wheel.

I haven't heard anyone here talking as if they were pro racers so again and again I am wondering what you would do with these super-light and very unreliable bikes. I'm sure you guys are using ultra-low gears to climb with. I'm not that good of a climber but I can run down most of the best around here if I'm in the mood. I can even give them a quarter mile lead on a hard climb.

FSA carbon cranks - one dealer says that he has had two failures just in his shop
Campy Carbon cranks - three failures in the same shop
Carbon seat posts - the most unreliable part on a carbon bike.
Carbon stems/bar combinations - I have seen these failures myself
Carbon bars - also unreliable
Carbon forks - I have had three of them break. One I spotted before total failure. One permanently injured me. The third just crashed me in a high speed downhill.
Carbon frames - I have point out several cracks in major high end manufacturers to their owners.
Carbon saddles - my brother who is 8" shorter than me and 40 lbs lighter was breaking them every six months but he wanted "the lightest".

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 9:56:04 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 11:33:43 AM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:48:20 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other manufacturers.
> > >
> > > Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with an aluminum frame.
> >
> > Colnago doesn't have the know how to build light CF bikes that last and/or stiff enough so the answer of Ernesto doesn't surprise me.
> > Something like Kodak that didn't know anything about digital camera's.
> >
> > Show me an aluminum frame of 850 grams. Any frame lighter than 1300 gram I prefer the CF one. YMMV.
> >
> > Lou
>
> Lou - what frame of ANY sort weighs a lb and three quarters?

My CF frame (850 gr doesn't include fork). Last 2 seasons I rode this bike

https://picasaweb.google.com/101076538433373858645/CanyonSLX?authkey=Gv1sRgCPnlxYTUi5_zfA

Best bike I ever had. I replaced the seat post with a Thomson Masterpiece because the CF Ritchey post kept creaking because of a design flaw.

I saw and Eddy Merckx aluminum frame and fork that weighed 4 lbs. On steel bike maker tells me that he is making 16 lb bikes all up.
>
> What would YOU use a 12 lb all up bike for?

Climbing and descending famous mountain passes in Europe for instance this year (a selection):

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zt2RFXCd0JQ/WHVTxudu8zI/AAAAAAAAGZk/HYy6XxD9DAkIw3m4FTPz8KOwt0SrEmxXQCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1499.JPG

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wPdFTsCQblc/WHVTknyueAI/AAAAAAAAGZc/F45eoXhpdtcdhX4gkuS_P1I4SbliYN-_gCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1493.JPG

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fqThAxmJtw8/WHVTl7M2mDI/AAAAAAAAGZc/nkxdKUTUHLUbevU-4NgMp76F2i4W8fZvgCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1495.JPG


Lou

[cycl...@gmail.com]

What - are you the punk kid of the group? Your bike isn't geared particularly low. These days I'm seeing more and more compacts with a 34 on the back. And I thought my 39-28 was cheating after the 39-25. But I do carry a triple now do that anything over 14% I use the 30-25 or so. But there are VERY few extended climbs over 12% around here.

While the Gavia and the Umbrail aren't particularly high they are known for their difficulty because of the speed of the climbs by the pro peloton.

The first one I recognize but can't place it.

The death ride is about the same sort of riding and the roads are a whole lot better. It has a total climb of around 50,000 ft. But it isn't much fun. You have people flying by you only to be laying on the ground trying to catch their breath 5 miles further on. Somewhere or another I went over a pass that was over 10,000 ft. That's when the air REALLY gets thin.

[James]

On 11/01/17 10:06, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> What - are you the punk kid of the group?

Nah, you're just an old geezer, Tom.

> Your bike isn't geared
> particularly low. These days I'm seeing more and more compacts with a
> 34 on the back. And I thought my 39-28 was cheating after the 39-25.
> But I do carry a triple now do that anything over 14% I use the 30-25
> or so. But there are VERY few extended climbs over 12% around here.

My 8.4kg bike (includes cages and pedals) carries me up 20% grades with
a 39x23 low gear.

--
JS

[James]

On 11/01/17 08:11, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 6:48:20 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who
>> spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon
>> Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins
>> grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can
>> grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This
>> is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they
>> build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other
>> manufacturers.
>>
>> Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with
>> an aluminum frame.
>
> I don't know how many of you besides Joerge make a habit of hard
> climbs. But light bikes do NOT make hard climbs much easier. In fact
> they add a lot of problems. Once the grade gets up to 18% you can't
> use low gears because on the light bikes it will lift the front wheel
> off of the ground. The bike will then pivot around the rear wheel and
> if you're ready for that you can lay the bike over before it turns
> down hill.

That's funny. The difference between a light bike and a "normal" road
bike might be a 1-2kg. Compared to the body weight of the rider at
70-80kg, this is nothing - and it is a distributed weigh loss over the
entire bike, not just the front end.

Experienced cyclists move their body weight forward to keep the front
wheel on the ground and maintain traction with very low gears. MTB
riders have been doing it for decades.

>
> The way professional climbers get away with this is that they use
> LARGE gears. Then you don't have the leverage to lift the front
> wheel.
>

BS.

> I haven't heard anyone here talking as if they were pro racers so
> again and again I am wondering what you would do with these
> super-light and very unreliable bikes. I'm sure you guys are using
> ultra-low gears to climb with. I'm not that good of a climber but I
> can run down most of the best around here if I'm in the mood. I can
> even give them a quarter mile lead on a hard climb.
>
> FSA carbon cranks - one dealer says that he has had two failures just
> in his shop Campy Carbon cranks - three failures in the same shop
> Carbon seat posts - the most unreliable part on a carbon bike. Carbon
> stems/bar combinations - I have seen these failures myself Carbon
> bars - also unreliable Carbon forks - I have had three of them break.
> One I spotted before total failure. One permanently injured me. The
> third just crashed me in a high speed downhill. Carbon frames - I
> have point out several cracks in major high end manufacturers to
> their owners. Carbon saddles - my brother who is 8" shorter than me
> and 40 lbs lighter was breaking them every six months but he wanted
> "the lightest".
>
>

--
JS

[James]

I don't believe age is what causes embrittlement in CFRP, but exposure
to UV light and contaminants that may attack the polymer probably does.

--
JS

[John B.]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:59:03 +1100, James <james.e...@gmail.com>
wrote:

UV causes deterioration of both epoxy and polyester resins so some
sort of UV protection is required, and incorporated, into carbon fiber
bicycles. This could be almost anything from gel-coat to a paint job.
--
cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/10/2017 4:11 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> But light bikes do NOT make hard climbs much easier. In fact they add a lot of problems. Once the grade gets up to 18% you can't use low gears because on the light bikes it will lift the front wheel off of the ground. The bike will then pivot around the rear wheel and if you're ready for that you can lay the bike over before it turns down hill.
>
> The way professional climbers get away with this is that they use LARGE gears. Then you don't have the leverage to lift the front wheel.

I think you need to draw a free body diagram of the forces involved.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

Sure, you can pop a wheelie on a steep grade if you put too much weight over the rear wheel on a short wheelbase bike in a super-low gear -- but you can do that with a steel bike, too. That's why you move your weight forward a little -- but not so much that you lose rear traction.

Professional climbers do not use LARGE gears. Post-Lance, they spin. My son was on the crew for the Tour of Utah and was surprised that a lot of domestic and Euro pros were using low gears. Here's a photo that he took: http://tinyurl.com/hpztj3o That ride has some staggering climbs with 20% grades.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Doug Landau]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 7:28:41 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

We definitely need a free body diagram of the forces involved. Probably you should draw it tho.

[John B.]

I would guess that, in spite of what Terrible Tom says, that riders on
the better teams probably use the gears that they know that they need
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 12:06:30 AM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 9:56:04 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 11:33:43 AM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:48:20 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other manufacturers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with an aluminum frame.
> > > >
> > > > Colnago doesn't have the know how to build light CF bikes that last and/or stiff enough so the answer of Ernesto doesn't surprise me.
> > > > Something like Kodak that didn't know anything about digital camera's.
> > > >
> > > > Show me an aluminum frame of 850 grams. Any frame lighter than 1300 gram I prefer the CF one. YMMV.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > >
> > > Lou - what frame of ANY sort weighs a lb and three quarters?
> >
> > My CF frame (850 gr doesn't include fork). Last 2 seasons I rode this bike
> >
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/101076538433373858645/CanyonSLX?authkey=Gv1sRgCPnlxYTUi5_zfA
> >
> > Best bike I ever had. I replaced the seat post with a Thomson Masterpiece because the CF Ritchey post kept creaking because of a design flaw.
> >
> > I saw and Eddy Merckx aluminum frame and fork that weighed 4 lbs. On steel bike maker tells me that he is making 16 lb bikes all up.
> > >
> > > What would YOU use a 12 lb all up bike for?
> >
> > Climbing and descending famous mountain passes in Europe for instance this year (a selection):
> >
> > http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zt2RFXCd0JQ/WHVTxudu8zI/AAAAAAAAGZk/HYy6XxD9DAkIw3m4FTPz8KOwt0SrEmxXQCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1499.JPG
> >
> > http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wPdFTsCQblc/WHVTknyueAI/AAAAAAAAGZc/F45eoXhpdtcdhX4gkuS_P1I4SbliYN-_gCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1493.JPG
> >
> > http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fqThAxmJtw8/WHVTl7M2mDI/AAAAAAAAGZc/nkxdKUTUHLUbevU-4NgMp76F2i4W8fZvgCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1495.JPG
> >
> >
> > Lou
>
> What - are you the punk kid of the group? Your bike isn't geared particularly low. These days I'm seeing more and more compacts with a 34 on the back. And I thought my 39-28 was cheating after the 39-25. But I do carry a triple now do that anything over 14% I use the 30-25 or so. But there are VERY few extended climbs over 12% around here.

When I go on a trip like that I use a 12-29 cassette which gives me a lowest gear of 34-29. That is enough for me for longer stretches (couple of km) up to 10-12%.

> While the Gavia and the Umbrail aren't particularly high they are known for their difficulty because of the speed of the climbs by the pro peloton.
>
> The first one I recognize but can't place it.

It is the Stelvio looking towards Bormio.

Lou

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

Pro riders use 34-28 regurarly on 14% grades and steeper.

Lou

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

39x23 on longer stretches (more than a couple of 100 meters) of 20% is impressive but as Jobst once said 'not everyone is blessed with bad knees and/or a small motor'.

Lou

[Duane]

Been there, done that. I switched to a mid compact and the 36x28 gets
me up most hills I need to get up and a little easier than the 39x23.

[AMuzi]

I recall well the wise words of my then-roommate Rich
Hammen, writing in his Competitive Cycling column under the
pseudonym 'Ask Captain America':
Q = Should I train spinning small gears or pushing big gears?
A = To win, you need to spin big gears.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[jbeattie]

What was the failure mode of your CF forks? It sounds like you had serious injuries, and if there were a design or manufacturing defect, you should make a claim -- really.

-- Jay Beattie.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

And eight years ago before my carbon fiber fork failure dumped me on my head I was climbing on steel bikes up 18% grades with a 42-23. Mind you I wasn't fast but I still don't see much sense in that. If you're a racer, fine. But if you aren't trying to go faster than someone else is pure ego.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

James, you are FAR out of it. A "light" bike now is under six kg and possibly down to 5 1/2.

> Experienced cyclists move their body weight forward to keep the front
> wheel on the ground and maintain traction with very low gears. MTB
> riders have been doing it for decades.

Modern bicycle design with short wheelbases and long top tubes do not allow you to shift your center of gravity forward unless you can stand up. And you can't stand on the pedals on steep hills where you have to pedal circles.

>
> >
> > The way professional climbers get away with this is that they use
> > LARGE gears. Then you don't have the leverage to lift the front
> > wheel.
>
> BS.

George Hincapie won a mountain stage of the Tour even though he is a sprinter. His gear was a 23 and that was the lowest gear of the group going over the top.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

James, you don't HAVE to believe it. All it means is that the curing agents in the resins have to have a fairly large amount over the ideal in order to harden in the time necessary to use on a production line. And since there is more curing agent than resin it will continue to cure for a VERY long time afterwards. Some chemists believe that the curing agent is never "used up" but rather is always present and hence will continue to harden the resin forever. But experience has shown that after it reaches a certain point the hardening slows a great deal.

But that SAME experience is showing that this hardening continues into embrittlement after long enough. There are NO OTHER resins that offer the characteristics of epoxy or polyesters.

Though you're free to invent a new chemistry.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Yes, John, but most failures of these CF parts are not on the surface where the UV is causing deterioration of the very thin surface layer. And in the painted bikes it won't even penetrate the paint.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Jay, take out a CX bike with super low gears on a mountain bike course with extremely steep sections just one time and you'll see what I'm talking about. Then use this same bike on steep asphalt sections and it is so plain that you can't miss it.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I am stuck with a 29 as well I actually am used to the 28 on my 9 speeds but I have 10 speeds on the Eddy Merckx. The 27 is just a tad too high with the 39 and the 29 bothers me because it slows your progress down and you work a little harder because you take longer to get over the climbs.

After I tried a compact I just couldn't take how much longer I was on climbs. And the I prefer to be in the lowest gear so that I know I don't have any alternative than the triple which I only use when I'm getting back in shape after a winter like this when you go for months without any significant riding.

Unless you're Jay and don't mind riding on roadways with cars turning upside down and driving 20 mph above the speed limit without a single cop doing a thing about it.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/11/2017 11:19 AM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> And eight years ago before my carbon fiber fork failure dumped me on my head I was climbing on steel bikes up 18% grades with a 42-23. Mind you I wasn't fast but I still don't see much sense in that. If you're a racer, fine. But if you aren't trying to go faster than someone else is pure ego.

Sometimes it's not ego; it's training.

FWIW, my "regular" (non-granny) gears are lower than that, and most of
my bikes have triple cranks with "granny" chainrings besides, for use
when absolutely necessary.

But my philosophy has always been to stay out of the little granny ring
during regular riding, no matter how tough the hill. I've always
figured that builds up the quadriceps muscles. And stuff I've read
recently confirmed that the only way to build muscle strength is to
occasionally stress the muscles until they can barely pull one more time.

Anyway, that's what I did in normal riding. Then if I were doing a
super-long ride (over 100 miles), or doing an extended tour especially
with a camping load, I'd use the opposite strategy. I'd drop into as
low a gear as was reasonable at every opportunity. That way I didn't
burn up the reserve of strength I'd built up from the hard pushing.

The combination of those strategies seemed to work for me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

When Hincapie won that mountain stage in the Tour they said his gearing was 39-23 and that the other three guys that were with him were riding larger gears.

I watched that German that won that mountain stage a couple of years ago and he was riding a HUGE gear. At the end he was barely moving.

You can't go fast in a low gear - spinning only gives you so much. At 90 rpm you get about 14 mph on a 42/21. On a 34/34 you would have to spin at 180 rpm. Try that for any length of time.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I misread Lou - the number isn't 180 rpm but 150. But TRY on a long climb.

[jbeattie]

You have to shift your weight to avoid the wheelie effect. I commute on a CX bike and ride steep hills every day on asphalt and dirt -- including a dirt trail that goes straight up next to a set of steps. It is over 30%. I ride that on a 34/26 -- which is my low gear on that bike, but I do it out of the saddle, fairly centered until I bog down and lose traction (I also encounter a barrier). I ride steep asphalt in the same gears on the CX bike, but usually out of the saddle for the steepest parts. I have a Roubaix that has a 34/28, and it will wheelie if I don't move forward a little. I'm not disputing that you can get the "light front end" wobble or wheelie. You just have to change your riding position. BTW, I sometimes ride the steepest street in America and perhaps the world -- which is not too far from my house. http://offbeatoregon.com/H1010b_oregon-city-home-of-nations-steepest-street.html These dudes are preparing for the epic climb: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrielamadeus/4552473995/?ytcheck=1

-- Jay Beattie.

[Doug Landau]

If you're a racer, fine. But if you aren't trying to go faster than someone else is pure ego.

Huh?!?! What sense does that make???

If you truly are mainstream, that's fine too. But if you want to be politically correct that's pure ego.

"A witty saying proves nothing" -Voltaire

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Jay, a low gear is something like 34-36. What you are talking about is a normal low gear. Remember, we weren't talking about racer's gearing but what people are putting on bikes now that Mt Bike cassettes and cranks are available for road bikes.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:11:45 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I'm not that good of a climber but I can run down most of the best around here if I'm in the mood. I can even give them a quarter mile lead on a hard climb.
>

You must be a retired professional rider. Or you live where every rider is extremely obese. Or like to make things up and live in a fantasy world.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 8:16:29 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> I recall well the wise words of my then-roommate Rich
> Hammen, writing in his Competitive Cycling column under the
> pseudonym 'Ask Captain America':
> Q = Should I train spinning small gears or pushing big gears?
> A = To win, you need to spin big gears.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi

I am always amazed when I see pro riding on TV. It shows them going along on the flat at 32-33 mph. I don't hit those speeds going down hill pedaling as hard as I can. I don't think I have ever hit those speeds on the flat even with a very strong tailwind.

[jbeattie]

No offense, but at 72, any young Cat 5 who couldn't beat him should take up another sport -- like darts. Among his age peers, however, he might be superman.

-- Jay Beattie.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Three years ago at the Century from Gilroy I ended the last five miles at 28 mph. I had gotten behind and every time I was about to catch them I would instead catch a red light. Then I would run the speed up and be closing on them like gangbusters and they would just get through another red light. This went on for every half mile for five miles. So I was accelerating REALLY hard and then running at 28 or a little above. At the end of the five miles I couldn't find my car in the parking lot for a half hour I was so shot. We beat probably 80% of the other riders back even after starting late. I was 69 at that time. And I thought we were riding pretty easy. I was even staying back with a slower climber in our group.

And that was with a 52. Racers are running 54's or even 55's these days. Rumor was that LeMond used a 56 in TT's.

[Radey Shouman]

^^^^
I'm afraid that Mr. Kunich may not have a choice. Just saying.

> fantasy world.

--

[cycl...@gmail.com]

If you think that's fantasy world after you guys spouting about cadence and gearing while missing the entire point go right ahead. And a Cat 5 CAN beat me. So where does that leave you?

[Frank Krygowski]

Well, I _used_ to be able to top 30 mph in a sprint. But that was a
long time ago.

And the older I get, the faster I was. ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

[James]

At the moment my only ambition is to be better than I was a week ago.
Part of that requires more strength. Sitting there and spinning little
gears doesn't do so much for strength. Hence Andrew's comment about
spinning big gears.

--
JS

[James]

Not in a UCI sanctioned event it's not. 6.8kg is the lightest.

>> Experienced cyclists move their body weight forward to keep the
>> front wheel on the ground and maintain traction with very low
>> gears. MTB riders have been doing it for decades.
>
> Modern bicycle design with short wheelbases and long top tubes do not
> allow you to shift your center of gravity forward unless you can
> stand up.

Bullshit. They haven't changed the seat post angle of the position of
the seat relative to the crank axle, so you can most certainly slide
forward on the seat regardless of the wheelbase and top tube.

> And you can't stand on the pedals on steep hills where you
> have to pedal circles.

Sure you can. Drop a couple if cogs and stand up.

>>
>>>
>>> The way professional climbers get away with this is that they
>>> use LARGE gears. Then you don't have the leverage to lift the
>>> front wheel.
>>
>> BS.
>
> George Hincapie won a mountain stage of the Tour even though he is a
> sprinter. His gear was a 23 and that was the lowest gear of the group
> going over the top.
>

So what?

--
JS

[James]

Actually, if the resin is not fully cross linked during the
manufacturing process, i.e. there are unlinked covalent chemical bonds
as per your posit, that is what can lead to fatigue failure.

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/08/what-is-the-lifespan-of-a-carbon-frame/

But you are free to imagine other worlds where your dreams are reality.

--
JS

[John B.]

I find it rather revealing that Super Tom charges up big hills (18%)
with what is essentially a 2:1 gearing while the people who race up
My. Washington - average 12% with sections ranging from 18 - 22% -
recommend a 1:1 gearing.

One can only assume that he is much, much, stronger than the
professional hill climbers. (or has a far more vivid imagination)
--
cheers,

John B.

[Doug Landau]

Yabbut loookit his legs

[jbeattie]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:06:30 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 9:56:04 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 11:33:43 AM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 3:48:20 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > A friend who speaks Italian spoke with a bike builder in Italy who spoke to Ernesto Colnago. He verified that the problem with Carbon Fiber aside from possible manufacturing defects is that the resins grow more and more brittle with age. After two years or so they can grow so brittle that the ultra-lights can fail at any second. This is why Colnago will only give two year warranties and why they build their "light" bikes considerably heavier than other manufacturers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have a good ride on your CF when you can get the same weight with an aluminum frame.
> > > >

> > > > Colnago doesn't have the know how to build light CF bikes that last and/or stiff enough so the answer of Ernesto doesn't surprise me.
> > > > Something like Kodak that didn't know anything about digital camera's.
> > > >
> > > > Show me an aluminum frame of 850 grams. Any frame lighter than 1300 gram I prefer the CF one. YMMV.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > >
> > > Lou - what frame of ANY sort weighs a lb and three quarters?
> >
> > My CF frame (850 gr doesn't include fork). Last 2 seasons I rode this bike
> >
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/101076538433373858645/CanyonSLX?authkey=Gv1sRgCPnlxYTUi5_zfA
> >
> > Best bike I ever had. I replaced the seat post with a Thomson Masterpiece because the CF Ritchey post kept creaking because of a design flaw.
> >
> > I saw and Eddy Merckx aluminum frame and fork that weighed 4 lbs. On steel bike maker tells me that he is making 16 lb bikes all up.
> > >
> > > What would YOU use a 12 lb all up bike for?
> >
> > Climbing and descending famous mountain passes in Europe for instance this year (a selection):
> >
> > http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zt2RFXCd0JQ/WHVTxudu8zI/AAAAAAAAGZk/HYy6XxD9DAkIw3m4FTPz8KOwt0SrEmxXQCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1499.JPG
> >
> > http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wPdFTsCQblc/WHVTknyueAI/AAAAAAAAGZc/F45eoXhpdtcdhX4gkuS_P1I4SbliYN-_gCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1493.JPG
> >
> > http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fqThAxmJtw8/WHVTl7M2mDI/AAAAAAAAGZc/nkxdKUTUHLUbevU-4NgMp76F2i4W8fZvgCHM/s2048-no/IMG_1495.JPG
> >
> >
> > Lou
>

> What - are you the punk kid of the group? Your bike isn't geared particularly low. These days I'm seeing more and more compacts with a 34 on the back. And I thought my 39-28 was cheating after the 39-25. But I do carry a triple now do that anything over 14% I use the 30-25 or so. But there are VERY few extended climbs over 12% around here.

>
> While the Gavia and the Umbrail aren't particularly high they are known for their difficulty because of the speed of the climbs by the pro peloton.
>
> The first one I recognize but can't place it.
>

> The death ride is about the same sort of riding and the roads are a whole lot better. It has a total climb of around 50,000 ft. But it isn't much fun. You have people flying by you only to be laying on the ground trying to catch their breath 5 miles further on. Somewhere or another I went over a pass that was over 10,000 ft. That's when the air REALLY gets thin.

Tom, are you talking about the Markleeville Death Ride? The standard version is about 15,000-16,000 feet of climbing. I did the six pass "Death Ride the 13th" that was closer to 19,000 (it included Pacific Grade and the back side of Ebbets Pass and Luther Pass), but that was a one-off deal. Ebbetts is under 9,000 feet. https://deathride.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/elemaplg.jpg But 9,000 is high enough if you're coming from sea level. Tioga is the highest pass in California at 9940 feet, but it's not on the Death Ride.

The old Death Ride was more interesting -- Monitor/Monitor, Ebbetts, Luther and Carson. I think they dumped Luther because its the route to Lake Tahoe, and the tourists and locals probably didn't appreciate having the road shut down all day.

-- Jay Beattie.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Yeah, that's it - I'm talking about outriding LeMond in his heyday.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Beating stop lights I can get up to a little over 30 and then can't spin any faster. I bought a 53 tooth but haven't put it on yet.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Jesus Jay, you caught me in a typo.