Next commander in chief?

[Ian Field]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-endorses-machine-gun-bacon-please-dont-do-this

[Duane]

On 04/08/2015 4:12 PM, Ian Field wrote:
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-endorses-machine-gun-bacon-please-dont-do-this
>


See now that Trump sat out of that debate the rest of them are getting
to talk about themselves. This is good. We want them to keep talking.

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 4:12:18 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-endorses-machine-gun-bacon-please-dont-do-this

iTSNOT Cruss we try to see but the people Cruss is selling himself too...

Trump's people we know ...whatshisname from Milwaukee we know but Cruss ?
deep in the heart of where ?

[avag...@gmail.com]

FORBES daily quote

Act with a determination not to be turned aside by thoughts of the past and fears of the future

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 4:12:18 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/03/ted-cruz-endorses-machine-gun-bacon-please-dont-do-this

There's stupid and then there's REALLY STUPID. That guy is in tthe REALLY STUPID category. Besides which the weapon he used is NOT a machine gun it's an assault rifle. I really wish writers would learn the proper terms for various firearms.

Cheers

[jbeattie]

He looks like Joe McCarthy's Cuban love-child.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/EoQGLOx_rLs/maxresdefault.jpg

I'm announcing my candidacy tomorrow and hope to get a spot on state for the Fox debates -- between the homeless guy and the conjoined twins.

-- Jay Beattie.

[avag...@gmail.com]

Portland's Reps fit between the homeless guy and conjoined twins constituencies ?

we appreciate your insiders viewpoint

but be aware that we have the videos.

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://cotocrew.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wiley-coyote.jpg?w=500

[Frank Krygowski]

Are both of the twins running, or just one? I forget. It's so hard to
keep everyone straight.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

The reasonable twin was ditched.

[AMuzi]

Right, that's not a machine gun. This is a machine gun:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/twin50.jpg

A pet peeve is the phrase 'assault rifle', which is pretty
darned nebulous and seems to apply not to any particular
feature except 'looks scary to the uninformed'. They are no
more or less lethal than an assault machete, an assault
switchblade, an assault hand grenade (see Malmo Sweden for
example) or quite notably a few assault boxcutters in the
hands of assault jihadis on assault airplanes one fine morning.

Like any tool, it doesn't have volition.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://www.bing.com/search?q=COMPARE+VOLITION+TO+INTENT&qs=n&form=QBLH&pc=U156&pq=compare+volition+to+intent&sc=0-10&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=e8a31215fe4d493cae914231b72980b6

IS TRIUNFO a land lord or complicate ?

Is Adelson a social worker ?

Is Free Market theory working in Rhodesia ?

[Sir Ridesalot]

Assault Rifle was the term given to early automatic firing rifles with high (20 or more rounds) magazine capacities that were designed to allow troops to assault enemy positions. Even the BAR was an ASSAULT rifle = Browing Assault/Automatic Rifle. It was designed for assaulting WW1 trenches. Thus assault as in assault rifle is a proper term.

Cheers

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/5/2015 8:13 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Right, that's not a machine gun. This is a machine gun:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/twin50.jpg
>
> A pet peeve is the phrase 'assault rifle', which is pretty darned
> nebulous and seems to apply not to any particular feature except 'looks
> scary to the uninformed'.

Well, there will always be disagreements about semantics. Guns are no
different than bikes in that regard.

Is it a crank arm or is it a crank? Is it a seat, or is it a saddle?
And if it's a saddle, why does it attach to a seatpost? Why do we clip
in to our clipless pedals? ... and so on.

> They are no more or less lethal than an
> assault machete, an assault switchblade, an assault hand grenade (see
> Malmo Sweden for example) or quite notably a few assault boxcutters in
> the hands of assault jihadis on assault airplanes one fine morning.

Oh, if you charged at me using an assault switchblade as I charged at
you with an assault rifle, I think we'd soon find out which was more or
less lethal.

BTW, I forget if this was posted here or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl--YVnni0I

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Mr Cruz is shown with a semi automatic.

[jbeattie]

A tool for what? A box cutter, for example, cuts boxes. A machete cuts cane. The military-looking carbines don't have any real purpose except killing people, presumably in large numbers. Civilians do not need a tool for killing people in large numbers. I can totally understand the infatuation with these guns -- they're mechanically interesting. They look cool. They're fun to shoot. But if you want to call them a tool, then they are a tool for killing people efficiently (particularly with the improved accuracy over the last 40 years). They are clearly more lethal than an assault box cutter -- which become pretty useless as a weapon when the target is more than an arms' length away, unless it is a throwing box cutter.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Duane]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. And with the right gun
people can kill a lot of people in a short amount of time.

Anyway, I'm happy that these yahoos are starting to talk. Playing to
his base with assault weapons, or semi autos or whatever to fry bacon
will hopefully paint this guy as the nut case that he is.

[jbeattie]

I mean he already lost the vegan and Jewish/Muslim vote with that bacon trick. Fastidious people like me won't vote for him because he's willing to put greasy meat on a piece of machinery. He was truly pandering to a very narrow base -- people who love bacon more than their assault weapons.

-- Jay Beattie.

[avag...@gmail.com]

THE QUESTION BEFORE US is

who is Cruz pandering to ? Andrew Muzi the Canadian bacon baiter ? Cruss' sideshow of rifle bacon and denying global warming appeals to Texans generally or oil rich Texans or....?

I stayed in Texas during 3 winters involved in bird seismology. The birds were a short distance from 2 seismographs.

Texas is a strange place often giving confusing data. The people are insular, paranoid and prone toward violence...striking out shouting threatening... grocery shopping at Greenbaums !

I found a wild bird flock at Falcon Dam. The grackles share a common language but speak with local idiom. Falcon is where the Seadoopilot was killed. State Dam associated workers opened up a hi volume loudspeaker system on my efforts recording bird whistling

The Sate supported the bird research but continuously attempted to stop it.

[Tosspot]

Indeed, I thought an assault rifle was a rifle capable of fully
automatic fire, compared to say an AK-47, which is a machine gun capable
of semi-automatic fire.

I like the pink ones. Good for kids.

[Duane]

Not that I think it matters much but:
http://www.paladinarmory.com/MachineGuns.htm
Not sure which are available in pink.

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/thomas-friedman-my-question-for-the-republican-presidential-debate.html?_r=0

the current GOP poll leader owns casinos, supports white slavery of drug addicted minors, distribution of narcotics, theft, demoralization,

and you thought post Bush Neo Dilettante, the GOP would not continue decay ?

a comment from the above to wit

Jeb Bush is not center-right; he is in the extreme right-wing of this country. But he is left of some of his fellow wing-nuts running for President. (referring to the article linked)

The Republican Party cannot be fixed. It sold its soul to the Devil ever since it stole the election of 2000. The Devil has since demanded many payments: the attacks of 9/11 (which could have been prevented by a competent Administration), two insane wars in the Middle East, the conversion of the largest federal budget surpluses ever into the largest deficits ever, the largest trade deficits in our history, the transfer of income and wealth to the rich from the rest, the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and the most vile attacks on a sitting President in history.

I share Mr. Bartlett's hope that Mr. Trump wins the nomination of the Greedy Old Party, because he would lose to any Democrat in a landslide.

[avag...@gmail.com]

pink.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

file that

[avag...@gmail.com]

" Mr Cruz is shown with a semi automatic"...not wanting to appear extremist



BTW APRECIATE THE REFERENCE TO THE WW1 gas pressure machine gun inventor/manufacturer...interesting story......

always stunned by modern slaughter in the backyard.

[John B. Slocomb]

The "Browning Automatic Rifle" was originally used by the U.S. Army as
a squad level support "machine gun" and likely designed for that
purpose. Given that it weighs nearly 20 lbs. I doubt that it was ever
a popular selection for assaulting trenches :-)

The original definition of an "Assault Rifle" was a full-automatic
weapon using reduced power ammunition compared to a full size rifle. I
believe that the Germans were the first to come up with the idea.
--
cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Steeping nimbly aside from engaging some of your opinions,
road work is probably the second most corrupt, inefficient
and wasteful area of the nation excepting only the public
education racket[1]. Removing the ancillary hobby horses of
non-highway expenditures from that fund would easily
continue the wasteful status quo ante by enough to provide
for infrastructure while greasing all the grubby palms along
the way.

There's no hope whatsoever to attack official corruption
because it is always more profitable to buy the inspector
than to complete the job to plan[2]. But at least spending
highway funds on highways and highway related thefts would
be better than that plus non-highway projects with a new set
of bill-padders in other unrelated projects.

[1]most current example:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/study-billions-of-dollars-in-annual-teacher-training-is-largely-a-waste/2015/08/03/c4e1f322-39ff-11e5-9c2d-ed991d848c48_story.html

[2] typical example:
http://www.boston.com/news/traffic/bigdig/articles/2008/07/17/big_digs_red_ink_engulfs_state/

[AMuzi]

That's correct and Kalashnikov duly credited the German
design as his inspiration[1] for something between an 'MP'
machine pistol and an automatic machine gun.

[1] There is much speculation that Kalashnikov was merely
the propaganda face of a large development team but he still
is officially credited with the design.

[avag...@gmail.com]

human resources development is essential to the country's well being.

the free 2 year college is IN..

but road work...that we can see and sometimes see 'in progress' ...at least we can see it time it snort it often die on it

ear marks ? not up to date...GAO efficient ear marking bills report.

I went on abt given the expletive deleted Chinese our computer bulge surplus thru Walmart instead of disbursing thru Fed programs...mainly caws the REPS didnah want to do the work or more importantly could not find analysts for that...

I was told the surplus was a meaningless drop in the bucket for road work.

RW seems to lie on the procrastination plain.

well, so its cracked but tell us how cracked is it ?

https://goo.gl/pauTRZ

I tell you what wera not gonna ride over to the LA Bijou for the Cruise flick

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/6/2015 8:17 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Steeping nimbly aside from engaging some of your opinions, road work is
> probably the second most corrupt, inefficient and wasteful area of the
> nation excepting only the public education racket[1].

On one hand, I don't doubt that much teacher training is ineffective.
Example: After working as an engineer, I taught in a tech school in a
distant state for several years before teaching college. At the time,
that state's board of education was hot on the idea of "individualized
instruction," meaning no more lectures; any student should be able to
walk in the door at any time, be given material that was written, on
videos, slides or tapes (this was pre-internet) and working at their own
pace, graduate on time.

Frankly, the idea was stupid. But we were forced to take courses to
retain our teaching certificates, so I took the course on how to
implement "individualized instruction." I foolishly assumed that course
would itself be "individualized" so I could work through it quickly.
Naturally, I was wrong. They felt no need to "individualize" the course
that taught how to "individualize" all other courses.

On the other hand, the quality of teaching is notoriously hard to
assess. K-12 teachers are expected to work miracles with kids whose
parents are absent, unemployed, drugged, in jail, etc. Teacher
evaluations by students are influenced by ease in grading (those who
give lots of A grades do well), ease of workload (lots of homework
decreases ratings), teacher personality ("fun" teachers get better
ratings) and more.

I saw this firsthand, where a teacher on the verge of getting fired due
to poor evaluations said "OK, I can play that game." He made his
courses very easy, gave lots of high grades, became very friendly with
the students out of class, and watched his ratings soar as his courses'
value tanked.



--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

+1

[John B. Slocomb]

I believe that has been explained a number of times. The Russian
"Defense" industry uses a "design team" concept which isn't so far
different from what is done in designing an airplane.

The Sturmgewehr 44 (SIG 44) was adopted by the German Army in 1944.
The name, I believe when translated to English is "Assault Rifle" :-)
It was a gas operated "small" rifle with the gas cylinder above the
barrel, capable of selective fire and having a 30 round detachable
magazine. It fired the 7.92 x 33 cartridge as opposed the full size
rifle that fired a 7.92 X 57.

The AK-47 which looks somewhat similar to the German weapon, although
I believe that the inner workings are different was accepted by the
Russian Army in the early 1950's.
--
cheers,

John B.

[Tosspot]

And he's right. here is a good example

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33802026

Why parents don't stand up to their constitutional rights to arm their
children is a mystery to me. I understand that school children are not
allowed to be armed in the USA. WTF!? Are they not citizens? If the 3
year old was allowed to defend himself this may never have happened. A
travesty of government interference. Children, and indeed, unborn
children have a constitutional right to defend themselves.

I'm a paid up member of the NRA. It's the NRA that *defends* the right
of the individual among others. Go here;

http://home.nra.org/

they take credit cards, it's a one stop shop to defend your rights.

[avag...@gmail.com]

CRUSS isnot a nut case...CRUSS has a constituency. The constituency asks for this


..................... meanwhile


http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/stories/5187/23-ridiculously-offensive-donald-trump-quotes?utm_medium=cm&utm_source=outbrain&utm_campaign=ao.cm.ob.dt.5187&utm_term=dt#Intro

[Duane]

A confederacy of dunces.

--
duane

[AMuzi]

and Crazy Uncle Joe is still just a heartbeat away. Yikes!

[avag...@gmail.com]

civilian rep for the McCain Syndrome

the reps really wandered off there....we wonder what country they're living in.

[jbeattie]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 3:56:48 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/7/2015 5:44 PM, Duane wrote:
> > <avag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> CRUSS isnot a nut case...CRUSS has a constituency. The constituency asks for this
> >>
> >>
> >> ..................... meanwhile
> >>
> >>
> >> http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/stories/5187/23-ridiculously-offensive-donald-trump-quotes?utm_medium=cm&utm_source=outbrain&utm_campaign=ao.cm.ob.dt.5187&utm_term=dt#Intro
> >
> > A confederacy of dunces.
> >
>
> and Crazy Uncle Joe is still just a heartbeat away. Yikes!

You want crazy -- pick any of the participants at the FOX debate. Do you think Nixon would have spewed Scripture and claimed divine guidance as president. F*** no! Eisenhower would have reprimanded the moderator and refused to discuss his personal beliefs. But nowadays, you would think we're electing the Pope or an Ayatollah. Jeb had to pull out the stops to keep up with the other crazies. There used to be a time when hearing God was a sign of schizophrenia rather than a qualification for public office.

Think of the great Republican presidents. Could any of them get elected today? No. Not crazy enough. Even Reagan -- who for some reason has been sainted --couldn't get elected because he was a deal-maker and would be portrayed as too "soft."

-- Jay Beattie.

[avag...@gmail.com]

crazy Nixon rode a failed foreign policy fantasy and a secret plan to election killing 58000 kids.

shell the area with a WW2 battleship....

................

the idea here is enfoldment of various right wing nutcases thru their physical embodiment eg Fiorenee witless executive, Huck-A-Bee, Triunfo Mussolini, .... Earth Wind Fire

Darwin on hand forming a coal-a-lition for the future.

[Duane]

So true. I'm hoping the majority of Americans don't agree with that crap.
At least the voting Americans.

What cracks me up is that when I was a kid in the south it was the
democrats that were the religious zealot racist clowns. Then their kids
started listening to the Allman Brothers and all that changed.


--
duane

[sms]

On 8/8/2015 11:01 AM, Duane wrote:

> What cracks me up is that when I was a kid in the south it was the
> democrats that were the religious zealot racist clowns. Then their kids
> started listening to the Allman Brothers and all that changed.

Clearly it's God's will. It was his will that these crazies run for
president as Republicans so that Hillary will be elected.

But it is amusing. You have the low-information voters going crazy for
Donald Trump and the Republican establishment seems powerless to do
anything about it. Yet in the last two presidential elections they ended
up nominating non-crazies and lost both times so maybe they need to try
something else this time.

I think the Republican establishment would like to see a Bush/Fiorina
ticket. I wonder if they realize the enormous baggage that Fiorina
brings with her after she nearly destroyed HP.

[Ian Field]

"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:mq5koo$ovj$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 8/8/2015 11:01 AM, Duane wrote:
>
>> What cracks me up is that when I was a kid in the south it was the
>> democrats that were the religious zealot racist clowns. Then their kids
>> started listening to the Allman Brothers and all that changed.
>
> Clearly it's God's will. It was his will that these crazies run for
> president as Republicans so that Hillary will be elected.

The American electorate is well known for voting for complete nut jobs - we
have the same problem in the UK!

[AMuzi]

Boris actually does ride a bicycle. That's good enough for me.

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:mq5nfb$2db$1...@dont-email.me...

He only does that for appearances - in all other respects he's a complete
loon.

[Joe Riel]

I doubt anyone but engineers in California have any idea of Carly's
debacle at HP. Besides, her excess baggage fees are trivial compared to
another member of the Bush clan. Regardless, that seems a likely
Republican ticket.

--
Joe Riel

[sms]

Glad we missed the tube strike on August 6th.

[avag...@gmail.com]

I doubt anyone but engineers in California have any idea of Carly's

////// no that info is known in biz and sub geeks....but primary is widespread overreaching of 'reality' into a vote optimism personal gains fantasy.

I misspelled Feeorreene this morning n got a load from the underworld.

[AMuzi]

She's not actually Italian, her maiden name was Snead

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per jbeattie:

>You want crazy -- pick any of the participants at the FOX debate.

Am I the only one who thinks Republicans have a lock on crazy?

The Democrats seem to have plenty of crooks, but I can't think of any
crazies. I guess they have to be out there, but nobody jumps out at me
from the evening news.

OTOH, there's Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Donald Trump,
James Inhofe, Todd Akin, Sharron Angle, Jody Hice, Joni Ernst... the
whole Birther thing...

Something about gerrymandering and primaries maybe?

Or am I just wishing and they're evenly distributed?
--
Pete Cresswell

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per sms:

> Yet in the last two presidential elections they ended
>up nominating non-crazies and lost both times so maybe they need to try
>something else this time.

Sarah Palin non-crazy? Maybe I'm being harsh... but, to me, she's over
the line and the fact that McCain allowed himself to be saddled with her
called his judgment and organizational skills into question.

>I think the Republican establishment would like to see a Bush/Fiorina
>ticket. I wonder if they realize the enormous baggage that Fiorina
>brings with her after she nearly destroyed HP.

The pundits I've heard say that Fiorina may have done the best of all 17
runners in the debate last night.

One thing: with Bush/Fiorina ticket, they could hammer hard on Clinton
without being accused of sexism.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Duane]

Trump may have thrown a monkey wrench in the process by saying he'd run as
an independent. If he can convince the republicans that he can split the
vote he may be able to get at least a VP nomination.

--
duane

[AMuzi]

Meh, different people see all of that differently.

That's why we bother with elections isn't it?

[jbeattie]

I'm sure there are crazy Democrats -- it's just not a job requirement. To get anywhere in the Republican primary, you have to be a three syllable Jesus (Je-sus-uh) born-again Christian. You have to talk to God -- and presumably God has to talk back. Staid Episcopalians need not apply.

-- Jay Beattie

[sms]

On 8/8/2015 2:31 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per sms:
>> Yet in the last two presidential elections they ended
>> up nominating non-crazies and lost both times so maybe they need to try
>> something else this time.
>
> Sarah Palin non-crazy? Maybe I'm being harsh... but, to me, she's over
> the line and the fact that McCain allowed himself to be saddled with her
> called his judgment and organizational skills into question.

Sorry, I meant for the top spot, not the VP slot. McCain should not have
agreed to Palin, but his campaign was so poorly run it's not surprising.
You're right, the Palin choice called into question his judgement. It
was a Hail Mary move to choose Palin because his campaign knew he was
losing and probably believed that Palin would attract more women voters.
Instead it alienated independents and moderate Democrats and moderate
Republicans. There was an unprecedented number of Republicans that
supported Obama in 2008 and much of that was due to Palin.

[sms]

On 8/8/2015 2:25 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per jbeattie:
>> You want crazy -- pick any of the participants at the FOX debate.
>
> Am I the only one who thinks Republicans have a lock on crazy?

No.

Maybe there are some crazy Democrats out there but they are not running
for president so they get no media attention.

Back when the south was largely Democratic (pre-civil rights act) you
did have some crazy Democrats like Lester Maddox in Georgia. But those
types all became Republicans.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Duane:

>Trump may have thrown a monkey wrench in the process by saying he'd run as
>an independent. If he can convince the republicans that he can split the
>vote he may be able to get at least a VP nomination.

And he would seem to have the precedent of Ross Perot to back it up. As
I understand it, Perot is widely considered to have cost the Republicans
the election when he ran third-party and siphoned off his block of
voters.
--
Pete Cresswell

[avag...@gmail.com]

she's a plant

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per jbeattie:
>I'm sure there are crazy Democrats -- it's just not a job requirement. To get anywhere in the Republican primary, you have to be ...

So I might be on to something thinking it's gerrymandering and
primaries...

To me, who is fully capable of voting Republican if somebody gives me a
good enough story - and explains what they think they did wrong to
trigger such a recession after eight years in the presidency and six
years in congress...and what corrective action they plan to take - a
real problem would be teasing out the crazy-talk that an
otherwise-reasonable candidate had to spout in order to survive "The
Party Base" and convincing myself that he doesn't really believe what he
was saying.
--
Pete Cresswell

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per jbeattie:

>Staid Episcopalians need not apply.

Speaking as a lifelong Episcopalian - who went to Sunday school every
Sunday all the way through high school, was sent off to religious camp
in Maine every summer.... and still sends the occasional buck to his
congregation...

I think Episcopalians have an inherent advantage over adherents of other
religions: because, once you find out that your religion was started by
a fat English king so he could dump his wife and marry his current
squeeze, it's difficult to take it all *too* seriously.

I'm not anti-religion by any means - and I think that a lot of good
things are being done by good people through the channels of their
religions.... and that religion enriches the lives of many people.

But, having said that, I also think that a lot of really horrible stuff
has happened and continues to happen because too many people take
religion way, way, way too seriously - which allows religion to become a
tool for certain types of power seekers.
--
Pete Cresswell

[avag...@gmail.com]

Cresswell...


we accept your confession confuring absolution with your donation of $100 to your church's Architects Fund

[sms]

There's an easy way to determine if you're a Republican or not. First,
check your wallet. If there's a billion dollars or more in your wallet
then you may be a Republican. If there's not a billion dollars in your
wallet then check your IQ. If it's 70 or less then you may be a Republican.

<http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/1925/large/voting-republican1.jpg?1343149622>

[sms]

On 8/8/2015 5:41 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> I think Episcopalians have an inherent advantage over adherents of other
> religions: because, once you find out that your religion was started by
> a fat English king so he could dump his wife and marry his current
> squeeze, it's difficult to take it all *too* seriously.

LOL.

Was just in the UK and was at the Tower of London where Henry the VIII
had the wives executed so he could marry the next one. Pretty sad.

But your religion doesn't have a monopoly on being started by someone to
promote his own interests.

[avag...@gmail.com]

BONG BONG....BONG

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33780887

[sms]

On 8/8/2015 2:31 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

The problem for the Republican candidates is they have to take those
bizarre positions to pacify the low-information voters that they need to
win the nomination. So even the non-crazy ones have to fake being crazy.
But you can't be too crazy because then you can't move back from those
positions fast enough in order to attract the centrist voters of both
parties, the mistake that both McCain and Romney made.

Romney's fake opposition to Obamacare, which was based on Romneycare,
was especially annoying to voters on both sides of the Obamacare issue.
But he couldn't say, "look, the only part of Obamacare that you tea
party wackos don't like is the Obama part. He's black. Get over it."

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/8/2015 8:41 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>
>
> I'm not anti-religion by any means - and I think that a lot of good
> things are being done by good people through the channels of their
> religions.... and that religion enriches the lives of many people.

Agreed.

> But, having said that, I also think that a lot of really horrible stuff
> has happened and continues to happen because too many people take
> religion way, way, way too seriously - which allows religion to become a
> tool for certain types of power seekers.

Of course, that can also be said of many other things: money, cars,
guns, status, power, politics...

Human society is messy.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

Rep cabinet

http://goo.gl/i5OszF

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per sms:

>The problem for the Republican candidates is they have to take those
>bizarre positions to pacify the low-information voters that they need to
>win the nomination. So even the non-crazy ones have to fake being crazy.

That's a problem for me. Suppose I see a Republican candidate that I
like: now I have to figure out whether he really meant the crazy stuff
he said during the primaries or not.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Duane]

Either he meant it or is lying to get votes. Two good reasons not to vote
for him.
--
duane

[avag...@gmail.com]

no this isnot the deal.

Rep administrations are now historically unable filling functional positions with competent people....NOT PEOPLE I AGREE WITH....but any competent people.

so Huck-A-Bee admin and Bush 3 admin are staffed basically with the same ol people who brought the last disasters into our miserable lives.

The cabinet may look different....for a while... but not down deep where admin staffers do and implement the running.

[John B.]

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 19:50:25 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

My guess is that he is saying what his pollsters and his campaign
manager tells him that the majority of his constituents want to hear.

Years and years ago I read an article about a professional campaign
manager who was quoted as saying that "I can get anyone elected....
providing he says only what I tell him to".

Personally I believe that. This thread, for example, is full of "Oh...
I like what he says" and "Oh... I don't like what he says". Even a
casual look at what candidates throughout history have said during
elections show that they all say things that they later, when elected,
do not do.
--
cheers,

John B.

[Joe Riel]

Being able to persuasively lie is a useful tool for a president, or any
leader, so consider it a demonstration of that practical art 8-).

--
Joe Riel

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/maureen-dowd-trump-the-disrupter.html?action=click&contentCollection=Europe&module=MostEmailed&version=Full&region=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article

[sms]

Unless the outcome of not voting for him (or her) is that a person that
actually believes the crazy stuff they say gets elected versus someone
that didn't believe it.

The primary system which chooses electoral college delegates had a good
purpose but it's been lost, and they way each state chooses which
presidential candidate to vote for no longer works as it was intended.

That's why some people think that splitting up the country into Blue
U.S. and Red U.S. is a good idea. The red states suck money out of the
blue states in terms of welfare (even though it's the red states that
complain about welfare the most). The only red state contributing more
revenue to the feds than they get back is Texas. By splitting the
country along party lines by state, the blue states would have a huge
budget surplus while the red states would sink further into poverty with
no more liberal states to bail them out.

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Marion_Russell#/media/File:House_Chambers_Lewis_and_Clark_Meet_the_Flathead_Indians.jpg

[Duane]

Lol. That's why it's better to look at the record of what he actually did
rather than what he says he did or will do. I just watched a debate in the
Canadian prime ministers race where Harper the incumbent stated that he
both reduced green house gases and righted the economy. It was pointed
out that the only carbon emission drop during his tenure was during the
2008 recession and as for the economy we're in another recession at the
moment. Harper doesn't ride a bike. (Added content to remain topical)



--
duane

[sms]

When will one of the 17 Republican candidates slip up and accidentally
tell the truth: "look, the only part of Obamacare that you tea party
wackos don't like is the Obama part. He's black. He's American. Get over
it."

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/10/2015 10:24 AM, Duane wrote:
> Joe Riel <jo...@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>

>> Being able to persuasively lie is a useful tool for a president, or any
>> leader, so consider it a demonstration of that practical art 8-).
>
> Lol. That's why it's better to look at the record of what he actually did
> rather than what he says he did or will do.

When looking at what a candidate actually did, please look at the entire
picture.

Here in Ohio, Kasich has been bragging about how he turned the state's
economy around, reduced taxes and tremendously increased the state's
budget surplus.

Well, the entire country's economy turned around, so it's certain most
of the effect wasn't due to Kasich. And he's bragged that part of the
turnaround was due to his privatizing the job promotion organization in
the state. But it's hard to tell if that organization has done anything
with the public money it receives, because its inner workings are
considered private and not subject to sunshine laws or public audit. So
much for transparency in government.

And yes, he reduced taxes a bit. He did it by chopping the amount the
state provided to cities, counties, townships and schools from
kindergartens to universities.

So our county engineer has been unable to repair the winter-damaged
roads because their budget was broken by Kasich. And our newspaper
notes the near-record number of levy proposals that will be on the
upcoming ballots. Because the state has cut funding, almost every
school district is laying off teachers and hurting for money. Kasich
has pushed the problems onto the local districts so he can brag that the
state is spending less.

I know this sounds good to the crowd that wants to drown the government
in a bathtub. But it strikes me as deceptive at best.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

Krygowski ...easy

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/multimedia/data-visualizations/2014/fiscal-50#ind0

Perry blundered best if my memory is...Perry went on abt creating a million jobs when stats were Texas increased job counts by 1-200000...whoa believe your own PR BS..

and the damaged goods there, California land of the Psycho...you now the song right ? LIKE A PSYCHO by the GRATEFUL PSYCHOS ? Cal improved count!

Scott is the same deal as Kasich only worser caws their weather is...

Ohio has excellent foundations, having little to 0 related to Kasich but coal ground corn location weather demographic flows...

The deal our economy is a Ponzi Scheme needing qualified management.

The Reps doahn wanna spend in the Ponzi Scheme. Not spending there produces a moribund economy. I give you a chicken you do 4 hours work...is this dull or what ? I give you a chicken and loan you 5 chickens for a payback of 20 chickens for four hours work now that has snap...and chickens off course.

[John B.]

Not to argue, but if the state has no money to under right local
schools where does it go? Are there state taxes that are not
distributed back to the local communities in some manner like roads,
schools, etc.?

I would assume that if the state lacked money to do something that
it's citizens required than logically sources of funds would either
have to be increased or services be reduced.

I believe that the original justification for town property taxes was
to support town schools.

--
cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Well, our property taxes do go to schools, as well as to other things.
But the situation is not simple.

One complication is an Ohio Supreme Court ruling regarding school
funding. The state supreme court ruled long, long ago that Ohio's
method of funding schools was (and is) unconstitutional. There's too
much reliance on local property taxes. There's also a provision that if
inflation or other factors increased a property's value, it's tax rate
must be reduced so the dollar count given to the schools remained
constant. So if there's inflation, school's budgets are effectively
lowered, in constant dollar terms - the only terms that matter.

Anyway, wealthier areas get far more money per pupil than poor areas.
There are schools with indoor swimming pools, and there are schools
where the teachers work in basement classrooms that used to be storage
rooms, where they have to duck ceiling pipes to walk around the room.
(One of my friends teaches in one of the latter schools, and I'm not
exaggerating the conditions.)

And of course, if residents of a wealthy area learn that some of their
money is going to a poor district, they cry that it's unfair.

But nobody's come up with a way to fix this, a way to actually have a
school funding system that meets the requirements of the state constitution.

Another complication is the charter school fiasco. The fundamental idea
is that a family should be able to send their kid to school anywhere
they like. In particular, if a kid's in an inner city public school
that has poor outcomes, his parents shouldn't be forced to send him
there just because that's where they live.

So they should be able to send him to a private "charter school,"
sanctioned by the state, where teachers aren't unionized, where there's
more curriculum freedom to innovate, and where the magic of the free
market will generate much better schools and much better outcomes.

But of course, it takes money to run a school. So if a kid abandons the
local public school for a corporation-run charter school, the law now
says the family's tax money goes to the charter school, and the local
public school ends up with even less money.

But the charter schools are almost unregulated, and their account books
are closed to public scrutiny. Lots (maybe all?) are run by
corporations raking in huge profits, staffed by teachers who are making
far less than those in public schools - which isn't much.

It might be fine, if the charter schools were doing terrific things in
education. But they're not. They've pretty consistently found that the
charter school outcomes (and attendance, and everything else) are worse
than the public schools. It's been very common for charter schools to
be closed down, despite the relative lack of oversight. Problem is, in
many cases, the people who used to run Grabyourmoney Academy simply
start a new school, Takeyourcash Learning Center, and repeat the
profitable performance.

It's OK, though. It's legal to strip the cash away from the public
schools and funnel it into these corporations. It's also legal for
those corporations to contribute very heavily to the election campaigns
of the lawmakers who wink and look the other way. And any connection
between those facts is pure speculation - wink, wink.

So the picture isn't simple. It's complicated in other ways, too.
Dollars spent per pupil is a poor predictor of education outcomes.
(That friend of mine in the super-poor rural school district often tops
out the standardized test results in the two-county area.) Local
culture has an overpowering effect - as in, if mom never had a husband
and has four kids by three absent guys, if she can't get a job anyway,
if the kids are nearly homeless because one illness means no money for
rent, if all the older kids in the neighborhood are thugs, then it's
impossible for a school to fix it all, no matter how gifted and
dedicated the teachers may be, no matter how new the school building, no
matter how fancy the computers.

But I'm sure that the next president, whoever that may be, will promise
to fix it all with a simple solution. Even though it's the furthest
thing from simple.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:46:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski

All of which is an example of why "people who spent other people's
money" often get it wrong :-)

But what is the solution? Perhaps the town/village levying taxes to
support their own "public" schools while private schools fund
themselves?

That was the way it was done when I was a kid. We had the public
school system supported by taxes and then a parochial school run by
and supported by the Catholic Church where their kids could get a good
Catholic education up to the 7th grade when they switched to the
public school. I will say that while I know nothing about their
learning but they were very well behaved children. It took them about
2 years to get as rowdy as us public school kids :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Yes, that's certainly the way it used to be. If you wanted your kid to
be in a private school, you paid for that privilege. And AFAIK you
didn't get any break on your property taxes.

I guess the difference was, tax money couldn't go to a church's school,
because that would be seen as having the government support a religion.
But tax money going to a corporation is just fine.

But it seems to me that corporations are the new religion in America.
Wearing a Christian cross or a jewish phylactery might draw snide
comments. But wearing an Apple watch or white earbuds? That's really cool.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Frank Krygowski:

>So the picture isn't simple.

That one made it to my "Keepers" file.

Thanks for the excellent post.
--
Pete Cresswell

[AMuzi]

Tangentially, and I had this conversation with my brother
from Seattle last week (the left wing of the family), I have
formed, bought, sold and managed several corporations.

So does that make me evil?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

Well, did you bribe politicians into passing laws that would divert tax
money to your corporation?

If so, did the tax money go toward a public-approved purpose, or did it
go toward exorbitant benefits for the staffers?

Those are pertinent questions.

I don't think all corporations are the same, just as I don't think all
religions (or religious people) are the same, nor all politicians, all
whites, all blacks, all rednecks, all vegetarians, all bicyclists, etc.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

Everything from the American Red Cross to Greenpeace, Inc. is a corporation. I think what Frank is talking about are publicly traded, for-profit corporations -- but at least you can look at their finances, and anyone who owns a share can go to the annual meeting and vote for board members.

Try that with some of the huge, privately held companies like Koch Industries or Cargill -- both slightly larger than Yellow Jersey. You're not going to look at their books.

I don't think wearing an Apple watch is akin to wearing a religious icon -- it's just another stupid consumer purchase or maybe a tribute to consumerism and not corporations.

BTW, tax money has been going to corporations forever -- municipal corporations, quasi public corporations (port districts, transit districts, hospital districts), road contractors, private consultants -- you name it. Oregon Health and Sciences University is a public corporation. Our workers' compensation insurer, State Accident Insurance Fund, is a non-profit chartered corporation. And this doesn't even cover corporate welfare, like property tax moratorium for the latest Intel plant or what-have-you.

You could easily set the schools up as non-profits, fund them with taxes and detach them from the public employees retirement system and the state hiring laws and public employees union. Or you could turn it over to the market and regulate the hell out of them, like utilities (or like private schools). The current old Soviet Union model for public schools is not the only model.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Duane]

On 11/08/2015 12:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
<snip>

>
> Tangentially, and I had this conversation with my brother from Seattle
> last week (the left wing of the family), I have formed, bought, sold and
> managed several corporations.
>
> So does that make me evil?
>

You sell bike stuff. I like bike stuff. So no. What other criteria is
there?

[Duane]

On 11/08/2015 1:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
<snip>

> I don't think wearing an Apple watch is akin to wearing a religious icon -- it's just another stupid consumer purchase or maybe a tribute to consumerism and not corporations.
>

+1

[AMuzi]

Some people, Eva Moskowitz for one, have shown a better path
is possible:

http://www.successacademies.org/

Milton & Rose Friedman inspire even from beyond the grave:

http://www.edchoice.org/

[sms]

On 8/11/2015 10:31 AM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> BTW, tax money has been going to corporations forever -- municipal corporations, quasi public corporations (port districts, transit districts, hospital districts), road contractors, private consultants -- you name it. Oregon Health and Sciences University is a public corporation. Our workers' compensation insurer, State Accident Insurance Fund, is a non-profit chartered corporation. And this doesn't even cover corporate welfare, like property tax moratorium for the latest Intel plant or what-have-you.

And in my city, to Apple.

Back when Apple was desperate for money, and close to going under, Apple
negotiated a deal with the city where the city would give back half the
sales tax revenue that the city receives on sales of Apple products in
California in online and phone sales. That deal continued for more than
decade. Recently it was slightly modified so the city gives Apple less,
35%. It was gently explained that if the city would not go along with
giving that money to Apple that Apple "might" decide to move its online
sales nexus to another state.

"Through last year [2012], the city of Cupertino refunded about 50% of
the sales taxes it received from Apple-related purchases back to the
company. Going forward, the city will only refund 35% of those sales
taxes, according to terms of the new agreement."
<http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-apple-will-pay-more-taxes-under-new-campus-deal-with-cupertino-20131119-story.html>

So a cash-strapped city is giving money to one of world's most
profitable corporations.

[sms]

But probably a better way to spend money than on religious icons that
don't have Bluetooth 4.0 or NFC.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/11/2015 3:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> Some people, Eva Moskowitz for one, have shown a better path is possible:
>
> http://www.successacademies.org/
>
> Milton & Rose Friedman inspire even from beyond the grave:
>
> http://www.edchoice.org/

I don't doubt that better paths are possible. However, what we've
experienced here is not a better path. Instead we've seen large amounts
of money taken out of the public school system (and BTW, the state
constitution requires a public school system) and given to for-profit
corporations. Those corporations promised much better results but
actually delivered worse educational results, gave lower salaries and
benefits to teachers, re-opened failed charter schools under different
names to get yet more public money, and operated under far, far less
public scrutiny than public schools.

So I'd want to see much more than a pretty website or a clever TV ad
before calling something "better." Based on local experience, I'd want
to see data on student outcomes.

Oh, and this nonsense isn't limited to K-12 education. In our area, ITT
Tech recruited very heavily in high schools, promising post-secondary
Engineering Tech degrees without the wasted time studying things like
English, Economics, History or whatever. I knew students who bought the
sales pitch, then found that the fees were far higher than those at our
university, the classes were watered down jokes and the employability
was weak. I knew students who jumped ship from ITT and transferred, but
were still saddled with huge ITT debt.

And BTW, I had a couple students who got good grades in classes that
they thought corresponded to our classes. The programs lacked proper
accreditation, though, so there was no transfer credit, and they had to
repeat the classes with me. I remember afterward fielding complaints
because a student failed my version of the class, despite (supposedly)
doing very well at ITT.

But I'm sure ITT Tech is quite profitable too. At least they don't get
tax funding, AFAIK.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

I believe that in the modern USA that makes you a bloated plutocrat
who deserves to be hung, drawn and quartered, but as the modern USA
decries killing (while spending more money on "defense" than any other
nation) the logical solution is to tax you into the poor house and
give your fortune to the far more deserving poor.
--
cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:14:59 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

That isn't exactly a rare practice.Many southern states were doing
exactly that - cheap power, no or very low local taxes, etc., in order
to entice businesses into relocating to their state and providing
employment for their citizens. And it worked. The two largest
employers in my home town moved to S. Carolina after first offering to
stay if the local government could come close to matching what had
been offered to them. The Locals refused, the mills moved, and the
town turned into what might be described as a "disaster area". I was
working in a filling station afternoons after school and week ends and
I remember people driving in and saying "give me fifty cents worth of
low test and don't bother to check the oil".
--
cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

John B.

gnaw this is pandering to the monkey voters showing resolve in leadership when punishing the "effete overpaid intellectuals ' trying to teach the monkeys children.

has very little todo with tax money