NiteRider MiNewt Review
Paul Hobson
It's *fantastic*
I illuminates the road very well in areas that are already lit, and it's
incredible. What I can't believe is how light it is. I friend let me
borrow his old helmet light once when were in a bind. His battery felt
like it was as heavy as a laptop charger. the MiNewt's batter doesn't
seem much heavier than a normal replaceable battery powered LED.
I've very happy with it and don't know how I got by so long without I
decent head like (I was using a cheap Cateye opticube type thing).
\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
.:change the f to ph to reply:.
ps. I'm back on the bike for now. I've an MRI Wednesday, but I'll
definitely be having surgery on my wrist with in the next 6 months.
Roger Zoul
:: The original thread expired on my servers so...
::
:: It's *fantastic*
::
:: I illuminates the road very well in areas that are already lit, and
:: it's incredible. What I can't believe is how light it is. I friend
:: let me borrow his old helmet light once when were in a bind. His
:: battery felt like it was as heavy as a laptop charger. the MiNewt's
:: batter doesn't seem much heavier than a normal replaceable battery
:: powered LED.
::
:: I've very happy with it and don't know how I got by so long without I
:: decent head like (I was using a cheap Cateye opticube type thing).
I saw this in the LBS yesterday. Are you saying that this little thing will
provide enough light to see on a well lit road or on a dark road? The
battery pack is indeed small as it the light itself. I could not tell
inside the store if it was really useful or not.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for me
or the shop.
Paul Hobson
> Paul Hobson wrote:
> :: The original thread expired on my servers so...
> ::
> :: It's *fantastic*
> ::
> :: I illuminates the road very well in areas that are already lit, and
> :: it's incredible. What I can't believe is how light it is. I friend
> :: let me borrow his old helmet light once when were in a bind. His
> :: battery felt like it was as heavy as a laptop charger. the MiNewt's
> :: batter doesn't seem much heavier than a normal replaceable battery
> :: powered LED.
> ::
> :: I've very happy with it and don't know how I got by so long without I
> :: decent head like (I was using a cheap Cateye opticube type thing).
> ::
>
> I saw this in the LBS yesterday. Are you saying that this little thing will
> provide enough light to see on a well lit road or on a dark road?
Both. It lights up a dark road more than I thought was possible (given
my previous lighting situation). And, the beam is powerful enough to
show up on roads that are already well lit.
Does that make sense?
> The
> battery pack is indeed small as it the light itself. I could not tell
> inside the store if it was really useful or not.
I'm quite pleased with it.
\\paul
ycle...@cs.com
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
> support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
> what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for me
> or the shop.
Personally, I've had nothing but great service from Niterider. They've
popped a few parts in the mail gratis when i e-mailed them about a
failure, no questions asked.
Too bad about your experience,
Cheers,
Michael Davis
Bill Sornson
> In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
> support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
> what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for
> me or the shop.
Agree wholeheartedly. I spent what to me at the time was a small fortune on
lights and an extra battery for mountain biking, and when they began to fail
barely a year later I took them to NR right here in SD. After a rude
reception, "NR Dave" apparently solved my problems with an upgraded chip in
the head unit. That was great until BOTH batteries died completely within a
few uses after that. (Just a "coincidence" they told me.)
The frustrating part is hearing people gush about their customer service.
Sure hasn't been my experience at all. (I did later get a deal on a HID
that's been trouble-free, although the bar mount design is flat-out
dangerous in that it can pop open way too easily. I zip-tie it shut as a
precaution.)
David L. Johnson
> In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
> support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
> what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for me
> or the shop.
My one experience with Niterider support was considerably different. I
took the malfunctioning light back to a shop (different one from the one
where I bought it, seeing as how that one burned down), and the bad
connection was fixed reasonably quickly and at no charge.
OTOH they no longer make the battery pack -- and no one else makes it
either, so it did not do me a whole lot of good in the long run.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
_`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
(_)/ (_) |
Stephen Harding
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:19:55 -0800, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
>>In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
>>support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
>>what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for me
>>or the shop.
>
>
> My one experience with Niterider support was considerably different. I
> took the malfunctioning light back to a shop (different one from the one
> where I bought it, seeing as how that one burned down), and the bad
> connection was fixed reasonably quickly and at no charge.
>
> OTOH they no longer make the battery pack -- and no one else makes it
> either, so it did not do me a whole lot of good in the long run.
I had a couple NR TrailRat 10W lights. Small with a decent battery
and good optics.
However the lights failed twice. I'd send them back to NR and they'd
be generally fine about repairing/replacing the light and getting it
back to me in a couple weeks. No problems.
But when the third failure occurred, I pretty much washed my hands
of NR lights. Used the last remaining light for a few months before
it too failed, and I was NR free.
SMH
runcyc...@yahoo.com
> The original thread expired on my servers so...
>
> It's *fantastic*
>
> I illuminates the road very well in areas that are already lit, and it's
> incredible. What I can't believe is how light it is. I friend let me
> borrow his old helmet light once when were in a bind. His battery felt
> like it was as heavy as a laptop charger. the MiNewt's batter doesn't
> seem much heavier than a normal replaceable battery powered LED.
>
> I've very happy with it and don't know how I got by so long without I
> decent head like (I was using a cheap Cateye opticube type thing).
>
I own a NiteRider HID Storm which I infrequently use on the bike. The
battery (I have the flat one) is heavy, cumbersome and nowhere to put
on the bike. Also, the light sometimes refuses to turn on.
Brightness-wise it's almost as bright as the car's lights. Drivers
sometimes complain (they get the finger). But I am looking for smth
lighter and hopefully not much dimmer.
>From the review above, and from the NR website it is stil not clear:
- hw the bright the thing is. Need numbers here, not just "gee, this
thing is bright". Compared to a $30 cateye everything is bright.
- how the battery is mounted.
BTW 6 hrs lifetime for an LED is not that fantastic. a 40W HID lStorm
lasts 4 hrs.
frkr...@gmail.com
runcyc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Brightness-wise it's almost as bright as the car's lights. Drivers
> sometimes complain (they get the finger).
Your light shouldn't blind other road users.
- Frank Krygowski
russell...@yahoo.com
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> > In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
> > support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
> > what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for
> > me or the shop.
>
> Agree wholeheartedly. I spent what to me at the time was a small fortune on
> lights and an extra battery for mountain biking, and when they began to fail
> barely a year later I took them to NR right here in SD. After a rude
> reception, "NR Dave" apparently solved my problems with an upgraded chip in
> the head unit. That was great until BOTH batteries died completely within a
> few uses after that. (Just a "coincidence" they told me.)
>
> The frustrating part is hearing people gush about their customer service.
The times I dealt with NiteRider customer service back in the late
1990s was terrific. I wish all companies had even half as good a
customer service as NiteRider. At the time I dealt with them, they had
awesome customer service. Fantastic.
On RoadBikeReview or MTBReview I wrote my review of the NiteRider
Digital HeadTrip unit. It had that common failure of going to the dim
3 watt mode whenever it was cold after only a few minutes. Even with a
100% charged battery. Chip was too sensitive or something. NiteRider
read my review and emailed me and had me send in the head unit to them
for an overhaul. I think I also complained about the battery pack not
lasting very long so they sent me a free battery pack. I also
complained about one of the lights on my other non digital HeadTrip or
non digital handlebar mounted unit being very dim. So they sent me a
new 15 watt MR12 halogen bulb. Even asked if I wanted flood or spot.
And I ended up with a free 15 watt head unit because their chip fix did
not work and I sent the Digital unit back a second time and they gave
me a basic On/Off head unit to use instead of the never really fixed
Digital. Great customer service.
Unfortunately, I'm not as happy with their products. As stated, the
fix to the chip so the Digital HeadTrip would not turn to dim after a
few minutes did not solve the problem even after two attempts by
NiteRider. So I don't use the Digital light head. And I would not buy
anything from NiteRider that is Digital controlled. So no HID from
NiteRider since I think the HID units are all digital of some sort or
another. The basic light heads, On/Off, work great. The battery packs
don't seem to last that long either. I use their NiMH flat 6.0 volt
packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a little too early in my opinion.
But its $40 to buy a good replacement pack of batteries that fit
perfectly into the NiteRider case. And a friend just bought a
NiteRider HeadTrip 10 watt unit for $72 from Performance Bike. $90
sale price less 20% coupon. But the charger stopped working after 10
or so charges.
NiteRider. Great, great, great customer service in my experience.
Some/Many/Most poor products. Unfortunately, I'm a firm believer in
the best customer service being the one you never have to use. The
product trumps service.
Ben Pfaff
> The battery packs don't seem to last that long either. I use
> their NiMH flat 6.0 volt packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a
> little too early in my opinion.
I had a NiteRider battery pack fail after only a few uses. I
took it apart and figured out that the batteries were fine;
instead, the problem was that a connecting wire had broken. I
ended up building my own battery pack from NiMH AA batteries.
Cheaper and repairable.
--
Ben Pfaff
email: b...@cs.stanford.edu
web: http://benpfaff.org
nash
"Ben Pfaff" <b...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:87u00rj...@blp.benpfaff.org...
How did you do that?
G.T.
> russell...@yahoo.com writes:
>
>> The battery packs don't seem to last that long either. I use
>> their NiMH flat 6.0 volt packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a
>> little too early in my opinion.
>
> I had a NiteRider battery pack fail after only a few uses. I
> took it apart and figured out that the batteries were fine;
> instead, the problem was that a connecting wire had broken. I
> ended up building my own battery pack from NiMH AA batteries.
> Cheaper and repairable.
Wow, all these shit reviews of NiteRider. I have a 10/20W NightSun from
1991, the lamps have still not burnt out and the battery still lasts for
2 hours when running on 10W. They tried to convince me to buy a new
battery when I bought a cable from them a couple of years ago, I had
lost my extender and their connectors are proprietary, but I told them
I'll buy a battery when the current one fails.
Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
runcyc...@yahoo.com
lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
Ben Pfaff
> "Ben Pfaff" <b...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:87u00rj...@blp.benpfaff.org...
>> russell...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>>> The battery packs don't seem to last that long either. I use
>>> their NiMH flat 6.0 volt packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a
>>> little too early in my opinion.
>>
>> I had a NiteRider battery pack fail after only a few uses. I
>> took it apart and figured out that the batteries were fine;
>> instead, the problem was that a connecting wire had broken. I
>> ended up building my own battery pack from NiMH AA batteries.
>> Cheaper and repairable.
>
> How did you do that?
I started by throwing out the battery pack and connection cable.
Then I cut off the proprietary connector on the head unit. I
then soldered on a standard RCA phono connector. Then I bought a
6-AA battery holder and soldered a jumper wire across one of the
battery slots (because I couldn't find a 5-AA battery holder).
Then I soldered an RCA phono connector to the output terminals of
the battery holder. I use cheap speaker wire with RCA phono plug
ends to connect them. (Avoid audio line-level wiring, which
isn't rated for high enough current.)
I'm not very good at soldering, so this was a considerable amount
of effort, but I eventually got it done to my satisfaction. The
total cost in components is under $10: phono connectors are about
$.50 each, the battery holder is about $3, the speaker wire is
maybe $4 or $5.
The batteries and battery charger are more expensive, but you can
use them with any electronic device that takes AAs. I use
Duracell 2650 mA-h batteries in the pack. They last over an hour
with my 10 W head unit, which is long enough for my commute. I
use a high-end NiMH battery charger (Maha MH-C808M) but that's
probably overkill.
gds
runcyc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
> lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
> light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
>
>
Matt O'Toole
> Wow, all these shit reviews of NiteRider.
Niterider sold a lot of lights.
> I have a 10/20W NightSun from
> 1991, the lamps have still not burnt out and the battery still lasts for
> 2 hours when running on 10W. They tried to convince me to buy a new
> battery when I bought a cable from them a couple of years ago, I had
> lost my extender and their connectors are proprietary, but I told them
> I'll buy a battery when the current one fails.
Older Nightsuns use standard Molex-style connectors, which you can get at
Fry's.
If you don't have any luck there, I may still have a few.
Matt O.
Matt O'Toole
>> runcyc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > Brightness-wise it's almost as bright as the car's lights. Drivers
>> > sometimes complain (they get the finger).
>> Your light shouldn't blind other road users.
Theirs shouldn't blind me either.
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:08:47 -0800, runcyc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
> lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
> light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
Ditto. I like helmet lights because I can get drivers' attention
(especially the drunk ones, for whom driving on 1.5 lane residential
streets with their high beams on is a dead giveaway).
VA Tech students/staff driving around drunk? Nah, never...
Matt O.
russell...@yahoo.com
> Ben Pfaff wrote:
> > russell...@yahoo.com writes:
> >
> >> The battery packs don't seem to last that long either. I use
> >> their NiMH flat 6.0 volt packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a
> >> little too early in my opinion.
> >
> > I had a NiteRider battery pack fail after only a few uses. I
> > took it apart and figured out that the batteries were fine;
> > instead, the problem was that a connecting wire had broken. I
> > ended up building my own battery pack from NiMH AA batteries.
> > Cheaper and repairable.
>
> Wow, all these shit reviews of NiteRider. I have a 10/20W NightSun from
> 1991, the lamps have still not burnt out and the battery still lasts for
> 2 hours when running on 10W. They tried to convince me to buy a new
> battery when I bought a cable from them a couple of years ago, I had
> lost my extender and their connectors are proprietary, but I told them
> I'll buy a battery when the current one fails.
As already mentioned, NiteRider sold, sells, a lot of lights. Far
easier to get negative reviews if there is a huge population to draw
upon. Is Night Sun still in business? As for why your battery is
still working, I bet its a different type of battery. The failed
NiteRider batteries are NiMH. Yours is probably SLA or NiCad. NiMH is
far more delicate than SLA or NiCad. But that disadvantage comes with
the advantages of being lighter, higher MiAH capacity, smaller. So
with NiMH batteries its easy and common to make them light and small
enough to put in a jersey pocket and use with a helmet light. There
are very few SLA or NiCad batteries sold with helmet mount lights.
Ben Pfaff
> G.T. wrote:
>> Ben Pfaff wrote:
>> > russell...@yahoo.com writes:
>> >
>> >> The battery packs don't seem to last that long either. I use
>> >> their NiMH flat 6.0 volt packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a
>> >> little too early in my opinion.
>> >
>> > I had a NiteRider battery pack fail after only a few uses. I
>> > took it apart and figured out that the batteries were fine;
>> > instead, the problem was that a connecting wire had broken. I
>> > ended up building my own battery pack from NiMH AA batteries.
>> > Cheaper and repairable.
>>
>> Wow, all these shit reviews of NiteRider. [...]
> As for why your battery is
> still working, I bet its a different type of battery. The failed
> NiteRider batteries are NiMH. Yours is probably SLA or NiCad. NiMH is
> far more delicate than SLA or NiCad. [...]
I'm not sure you actually read what I wrote above. My batteries
were fine. The battery pack had defective wiring. That's a
quality control issue orthogonal to battery technology.
--
"The sound of peacocks being shredded can't possibly be
any worse than the sound of peacocks not being shredded."
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog in the Monastery
Friday
I have a little write-up on home-made battery packs.
http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Battery/battery.htm
Friday
G.T.
"Matt O'Toole" <matto...@letterboxes.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.22....@letterboxes.org...
Mine are house shaped and I visited many electronics stores, not just Fry's,
when I was trying to make a replacement cable. No one had these connectors.
Greg
G.T.
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164229619....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> G.T. wrote:
> > Ben Pfaff wrote:
> > > russell...@yahoo.com writes:
> > >
> > >> The battery packs don't seem to last that long either. I use
> > >> their NiMH flat 6.0 volt packs. 3800 MAh. I had a few fail a
> > >> little too early in my opinion.
> > >
> > > I had a NiteRider battery pack fail after only a few uses. I
> > > took it apart and figured out that the batteries were fine;
> > > instead, the problem was that a connecting wire had broken. I
> > > ended up building my own battery pack from NiMH AA batteries.
> > > Cheaper and repairable.
> >
> > Wow, all these shit reviews of NiteRider. I have a 10/20W NightSun from
> > 1991, the lamps have still not burnt out and the battery still lasts for
> > 2 hours when running on 10W. They tried to convince me to buy a new
> > battery when I bought a cable from them a couple of years ago, I had
> > lost my extender and their connectors are proprietary, but I told them
> > I'll buy a battery when the current one fails.
>
> As already mentioned, NiteRider sold, sells, a lot of lights. Far
> easier to get negative reviews if there is a huge population to draw
> upon. Is Night Sun still in business?
I believe they are. http://www.night-sun.com/
> As for why your battery is
> still working, I bet its a different type of battery. The failed
> NiteRider batteries are NiMH. Yours is probably SLA or NiCad.
Water bottle NiCad with a long extension wire for helmet use.
Greg
Gooserider
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in message
news:1164118795.5...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
I'm sure the Niterider MiNewt is a great light. I do not like the idea of
using lights with proprietary batteries. What happens when the NR's battery
pack won't take a charge? Does it have to be returned to the factory for
service? I use a DiNotte 5W Ultralight, and when my rechargeable AAs stop
taking a charge I just pop for 10 bucks for new AAs. Plus, battery
technology is improving, so as rechargeable batteries get better my light
will get better. It shipped with 2300ma batteries, and now I use 2600s.
Robin Hubert
For you Christian (and other types), "an eye for an eye ..." The old
timers may or may not have had it right.
Robin Hubert
Mike Jacoubowsky
> lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
> light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
Does it really make sense to blind someone who's driving *towards* you?
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Stephen Harding
>>I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
>>lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
>>light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
>
> Does it really make sense to blind someone who's driving *towards* you?
I'm convinced that for moments, yes, you sometimes
need to blind the oncoming driver.
Of course, this is for different contexts: walking along
a dark road with no sidewalk (walking my dog) versus riding
a bike.
I've noted that drivers, even with a light shining in their
direction, too often do not slow down or swing wide of you.
You have to actually aim the light right into where the
driver's head/eyes would be in the oncoming car to get their
attention.
On a bike, you don't have quite the control of waving a
headlight around a windshield as you do with a hand held
light walking along a dark road.
Having two totally light blinded people heading towards
each other (at significant closing speed) isn't a good thing,
but I've become convinced that a few "blinding flashes" into
the operator's eyes is too often required to get a proper
response to your presence; and slow them down and give you
some space along the roadside.
I give up if they still don't get the message, figuring two
blinded people on a single road path isn't good. There are
some drivers who simply are not going to share the road with
you, whether you travel on foot on by bike on a road.
SMH
David L. Johnson
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
>>>lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
>>>light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
>>
>> Does it really make sense to blind someone who's driving *towards* you?
>
> I'm convinced that for moments, yes, you sometimes
> need to blind the oncoming driver.
Right. This is real smart.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy
frkr...@gmail.com
Stephen Harding wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
> >>lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
> >>light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
> >
> > Does it really make sense to blind someone who's driving *towards* you?
>
> I'm convinced that for moments, yes, you sometimes
I'm not.
There are times you _may_ need to flash a headlight at them. I do this
with a "rock dodge" motion of the handlebar - but in my experience,
even that is probably unnecessary. I strongly believe that I'm more
visible at night than I am during the day. (And my daytime visibility
is just fine, thank you.)
But the post I originally commented on was advocating lights so bright
that other road users complained. Steady lights, not rare flashes.
That's about as sensible as constantly riding with a siren blaring.
- Frank Krygowski
SMS
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
>>> lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
>>> light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
>>
>> Does it really make sense to blind someone who's driving *towards* you?
>
> I'm convinced that for moments, yes, you sometimes
> need to blind the oncoming driver.
I notice that when approaching an intersection where the majority of
drivers are turning left that they simply don't see a bicycle with a
low-power light, or if they do see it, they assume that it's moving very
slowly so that they have plenty of time to turn.
My recent commute had one of those intersections (El Camino and
Henderson in Sunnyvale). I'd be going south at a high rate of speed,
trying to make a green light, and vehicles turning left on ECR from NB
Henderson would not yield to bicycles with junky lights. With good
lights, they almost always yielded. They may have thought I was a
motorcycle or something. I don't think that I was blinding them, but the
two 14W lights were aimed such that I was definitely in their field of view.
In any case, a MiNewt isn't going to blind a driver. Maybe an HID light
could do that, but not a 4W LED light.
russell...@yahoo.com
I have a NiteRider water bottle NiCad battery that works fine too. Its
from the late 1990s. No problems. No early failure. Heavy and big
though. I don't like the idea of a cord running from the battery on
the bike to my helmet light. One more thing to get tangled up.
>
> Greg
Stephen Harding
Good for you!
You'll be squished in no time because a driver isn't forced
into thinking "what the heck is that?".
A small light glowing off the side of the road isn't enough
to get the attention of at least 50% of the cars I encounter
in my neighborhood (while walking myself and/or dog at night).
A brighter light that may be on a bike (3W and especially
10W and more) may be enough to get the attention of most
motorists.
My little ?? hand held light of perhaps 2.4W doesn't seem to
do it. I don't really even know if I'm blinding them, but
waving the light in the "eye area" does get their attention
whereas normal light on in front of you doesn't seem to do
much at all.
SMH
Stephen Harding
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:51:40 +0000, Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>
>>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>
>>>>I only point the light on the drivers when they blind me with their
>>>>lights. So we are even. And it draws their attention. I never point the
>>>>light on other cyclists/pedestrians.
>>>
>>>Does it really make sense to blind someone who's driving *towards* you?
>>
>>I'm convinced that for moments, yes, you sometimes
>>need to blind the oncoming driver.
>
>
> Right. This is real smart.
Says you.
You've been run over by someone you blinded, so you know?
SMH
Stephen Harding
I think too often, motor vehicle operators do not respond to
roadside activity until they are directly upon it. Especially
if they are not certain what it is. Lights do not necessarily
cause a motorist to slow down, just like a sign that says "merge"
ahead doesn't cause everyone to begin the merge process.
Until a driver figures out exactly what that thing is moving
on the side of the road ahead is, they sail happily along
confident they can always stop or swerve as needed in time.
I've had to jump completely off the road too many times while
walking in the dark with a light passively at my side. When
I wave it across the windshield of the oncoming car, they almost
always start slowing or swinging wide.
Not a problem while riding a bike because you're in different
lanes, so blinding on coming traffic really has no benefit.
Only at or crossing intersections for the most part.
The same thing can happen from astern where motorists ignore
the red tail light until they're right up upon you. That is
why I have a pair of red tail lights (one flashing/one steady),
a reflective vest, reflective trouser straps and reflective
strips on the front and rear fenders. On top of that, my
panniers have reflective rear strips and my handlebar bag
also has one forward.
I am still sometimes on the very verge of bailing out off the
road when being approached by cars at night. Many just wait
until the last minute before acknowledging your presence.
I'd like to have a manually controlled strong beam to flash
in some motorists eyes behind me. I'm convinced they'd get
the message faster.
SMH
frkr...@gmail.com
Stephen Harding wrote:
> frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > There are times you _may_ need to flash a headlight at them. I do this
> > with a "rock dodge" motion of the handlebar - but in my experience,
> > even that is probably unnecessary. I strongly believe that I'm more
> > visible at night than I am during the day. (And my daytime visibility
> > is just fine, thank you.)
> >
> > But the post I originally commented on was advocating lights so bright
> > that other road users complained. Steady lights, not rare flashes.
> > That's about as sensible as constantly riding with a siren blaring.
>
> Good for you!
>
> You'll be squished in no time because a driver isn't forced
> into thinking "what the heck is that?".
:-) I'll be squished "in no time"? That would be very odd, seeing as
I've been riding at night regularly since 1977! Almost all of that has
been with a 3 watt generator light.
> A small light glowing off the side of the road isn't enough
> to get the attention of at least 50% of the cars I encounter
> in my neighborhood (while walking myself and/or dog at night).
I'm always amazed that some people find the world to be such a
dangerous place.
My wife and I walk frequently at night. I do carry a light, since many
of our village streets have no sidewalks. But the light I carry is one
of those button-battery powered LEDs, roughly the size of three stacked
quarters. I don't remember any driver ever failing to notice it.
One tip: It's been shown that light sources (including reflectors) are
much more attention getting if they move, especially if they move in a
way related to a person walking. People are hardwired to notice other
people. So when you're walking your dog at night, turn the light on as
a car approaches, but swing your arm naturally as you walk.
On a bike, pedal reflectors produce this motion very well. Coupled
with a proper rear reflector and taillight, I doubt very much that
you'll have any trouble being noticed from behind. I certainly haven't
had trouble in nearly 30 years, and in fact I've gotten some
spontaneous compliments on my visibility from motorists.
Also, in the forward direction, you don't need much. Oncoming
motorists are in the opposite lane. The only ones that need to notice
you are those turning left across your path, and those waiting at stop
signs for a clear spot. A 3 watt generator light has always been
sufficient to get me noticed. In fact, I think any light bright enough
to show you the road surface is bright enough to be easily noticed by
motorists.
In fact, several times just this year I've seen that motorists making
those maneuvers waited overly long as I passed at night. That is, they
had _plenty_ of time to safely get going before I arrived, but they
waited patiently until I was past.
- Frank Krygowski
Matt O'Toole
> Mine are house shaped and I visited many electronics stores, not just Fry's,
> when I was trying to make a replacement cable. No one had these connectors.
A tall, skinny house, or a low, fat house?
Matt O.
G.T.
A tall skinny house. Don't tell me they are a standard connector?
Greg
Stephen Harding
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>>frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>There are times you _may_ need to flash a headlight at them. I do this
>>>with a "rock dodge" motion of the handlebar - but in my experience,
>>>even that is probably unnecessary. I strongly believe that I'm more
>>>visible at night than I am during the day. (And my daytime visibility
>>>is just fine, thank you.)
>>>
>>>But the post I originally commented on was advocating lights so bright
>>>that other road users complained. Steady lights, not rare flashes.
>>>That's about as sensible as constantly riding with a siren blaring.
>>
>>Good for you!
>>
>>You'll be squished in no time because a driver isn't forced
>>into thinking "what the heck is that?".
>
>
> :-) I'll be squished "in no time"? That would be very odd, seeing as
> I've been riding at night regularly since 1977! Almost all of that has
> been with a 3 watt generator light.
>
>
>>A small light glowing off the side of the road isn't enough
>>to get the attention of at least 50% of the cars I encounter
>>in my neighborhood (while walking myself and/or dog at night).
>
>
> I'm always amazed that some people find the world to be such a
> dangerous place.
Don't tell me there isn't an element of danger in one of my
dog walk routes. I walk it extremely often, over years.
I don't feel the world is an exceptionally dangerous place
for walking or riding a bike. Generally people are pretty
good and other than encountering the rare psychopath on the
road, you'll be quite safe whether you even use a light at
all during the night, overall. People aren't out to kill
you.
But...
This stretch of road is wooded with turns; sparcely settled
with a town park where ball games run into the night and
some percentage of young people leave the part in varying
states of inebriation. Add to that, they go too fast.
You'd be a fool to just happily skip down the road in the
belief there is nothing to be concerned about because the
world is a very safe place.
> My wife and I walk frequently at night. I do carry a light, since many
> of our village streets have no sidewalks. But the light I carry is one
> of those button-battery powered LEDs, roughly the size of three stacked
> quarters. I don't remember any driver ever failing to notice it.
Better drivers I guess. (I'm in Massachusetts).
I've come to the conclusions I have based on *years* of
walking that stretch of road. I obviously don't feel it
is so dangerous that I outright stay away from it, but in
the past I'd get pushed off the road by a driver coming
towards me (I walk on the opposite side of the road with
light and leashed dog) who simply is not going to share
the way with me.
I'm convinced, over years of experience on that stretch of
road, that just having the light on isn't good enough.
You need to wave the light right where the driver's eyes
approximately are to get his attention. Having the light
passively at my side facing down the edge of the road ahead
of me doesn't do it, and least with the hand light I use
which sounds pretty much the same thing you use.
> One tip: It's been shown that light sources (including reflectors) are
> much more attention getting if they move, especially if they move in a
> way related to a person walking. People are hardwired to notice other
> people. So when you're walking your dog at night, turn the light on as
> a car approaches, but swing your arm naturally as you walk.
I turn the light on, then wave it back and forth across the
approaching car's windshield. I have no idea if I'm "blinding"
him or not. But it does get his attention much farther out
from me than any other technique I've tried.
> On a bike, pedal reflectors produce this motion very well. Coupled
> with a proper rear reflector and taillight, I doubt very much that
> you'll have any trouble being noticed from behind. I certainly haven't
> had trouble in nearly 30 years, and in fact I've gotten some
> spontaneous compliments on my visibility from motorists.
Pedal reflectors can't be seen too well from astern on my
bikes because of the panniers on the back. I'm not certain
how well they do overall as they are low and the pedal is
either angled down in parts of the pedaling motion, or are
overhung with the heel of your foot. I do occasionally
really notice pedal reflectors from off angles.
The wheel reflectors are good, but they don't help you much
fore and aft.
> Also, in the forward direction, you don't need much. Oncoming
> motorists are in the opposite lane. The only ones that need to notice
> you are those turning left across your path, and those waiting at stop
> signs for a clear spot. A 3 watt generator light has always been
> sufficient to get me noticed. In fact, I think any light bright enough
> to show you the road surface is bright enough to be easily noticed by
> motorists.
I have the 6V Dymotec generator on two of my commuting
bikes and am quite happy with them. I run 3W head lights
with AA powered tails. I think I'm well noted on the road
by motorists.
Given the lane difference between oncoming traffic on a
bike, blinding lights aren't so much an issue.
> In fact, several times just this year I've seen that motorists making
> those maneuvers waited overly long as I passed at night. That is, they
> had _plenty_ of time to safely get going before I arrived, but they
> waited patiently until I was past.
I agree that generally, at least around here, despite a
very high 18-25 year old male driving demographic, that
riding the bike on the road is very problem free. People
are quite good about giving bicyclists proper respect.
But walking seems quite a bit different, at least in this
one particular stretch of route I often use to exercise
myself along with a turbosupercharged Irish Setter!
SMH
Matt O'Toole
Yup. I found them at Fry's in southern CA. Mar-vac had them too. If
there's a local electronics store like Mar-vac where you live, they could
probably order them for you. Or try one of the mail order catalogs.
I thought I still had some lying around, but I think I threw them in with
an old Nightsun set that I sold or gave away.
Matt O.
frkr...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >>A small light glowing off the side of the road isn't enough
> >>to get the attention of at least 50% of the cars I encounter
> >>in my neighborhood (while walking myself and/or dog at night).
> >
> > I'm always amazed that some people find the world to be such a
> > dangerous place.
>
> Don't tell me there isn't an element of danger in one of my
> dog walk routes. I walk it extremely often, over years.
>
> I don't feel the world is an exceptionally dangerous place
> for walking or riding a bike. Generally people are pretty
> good and other than encountering the rare psychopath on the
> road, you'll be quite safe whether you even use a light at
> all during the night, overall. People aren't out to kill
> you.
>
> But...
>
> This stretch of road is wooded with turns; sparcely settled
> with a town park where ball games run into the night and
> some percentage of young people leave the part in varying
> states of inebriation. Add to that, they go too fast.
>
> You'd be a fool to just happily skip down the road in the
> belief there is nothing to be concerned about because the
> world is a very safe place.
In my mind, there's a difference between "an element of danger" and "a
dangerous place."
There's an element of danger in _everything_. I've read of cars
crashing into houses and injuring people sleeping in their beds. The
question, as usual, is "How much danger?"
For your walking case, I wouldn't have the attitude you describe in
your last paragraph above. First, I rarely skip these days. ;-)
More to the point, I seldom think there is _nothing_ to be concerned
about. I take precautions - but those don't involve blinding anyone.
So what do I do? I carry a small light, and turn it on and swing my
arm naturally when a car approaches. Works for me. If you're not
swinging your light as you walk, you remove an effective clue to the
driver. Try it.
Back to the bike headlight - I still maintain your headlight should not
be blinding, or even irritating, to other road users. It's not
necessary for safety, and it can cause harm.
BTW, I had the experience of passing a cyclist with a badly aimed
super-headlight on a short bike path. I had to shade my eyes with one
hand to keep from being completely blinded. And taking a hand off the
brakes to do that made me pretty unhappy. I think the guy is/was an
inconsiderate jerk.
IIRC, DOT has specs for auto headlights, designed to limit the
blinding of other road users. The logic is simple, and should apply to
bicycles as well.
- Frank Krygowski
Stephen Harding
> For your walking case, I wouldn't have the attitude you describe in
> your last paragraph above. First, I rarely skip these days. ;-)
> More to the point, I seldom think there is _nothing_ to be concerned
> about. I take precautions - but those don't involve blinding anyone.
I don't know if I'm actually blinding anyone. If I am, it's for
short periods, not unlike in your car when flashing your high
beams at oncoming car who may be unaware they are on high.
Flash a few times. If he doesn't get it, give it up. One person
blind is bad enough, let alone two, at typical car closing speeds!
But that's in my car.
> So what do I do? I carry a small light, and turn it on and swing my
> arm naturally when a car approaches. Works for me. If you're not
> swinging your light as you walk, you remove an effective clue to the
> driver. Try it.
I have. I don't believe it works as well as flashing the light
across someones eyes (my intent). It gets their attention farther
out. I works great and if I'm blinding them, it's only intermittent.
> Back to the bike headlight - I still maintain your headlight should not
> be blinding, or even irritating, to other road users. It's not
> necessary for safety, and it can cause harm.
>
> BTW, I had the experience of passing a cyclist with a badly aimed
> super-headlight on a short bike path. I had to shade my eyes with one
> hand to keep from being completely blinded. And taking a hand off the
> brakes to do that made me pretty unhappy. I think the guy is/was an
> inconsiderate jerk.
>
> IIRC, DOT has specs for auto headlights, designed to limit the
> blinding of other road users. The logic is simple, and should apply to
> bicycles as well.
Pretty much agree for the bicycle. It should be no worse than
flashing high beams in your car, although rather more difficult
to control on a bike since you have no high beam (or shouldn't,
unless you have a second light that functions as one; which should
be off while on the road).
My "blinding is good" comments were over-stated. I only meant while
on foot (I'm in oncoming traffic's lane and *need* to ensure they
know I'm there; furthermore, "blinding" should only be intermittent
as in waving the light back and forth across the windshield). It
*does* get the driver's attention farther out [in my experience].
On a bike, you should not be blinding on-coming traffic, even for
moments. On the rare occasions I've had a car flash his lights at
me, I know I need to re-aim the bike headlight lower.
SMH
Bill Lloyd
<pe...@vecchios.com> said:
>
> Paul Hobson wrote:
>> The original thread expired on my servers so...
>>
>> It's *fantastic*
>>
>> ...
>
> In my experience, it's not Niterider product but their crappy customer
> support. After sending a unit back, and being accused of lying about
> what I put in the box, I don't think I'll be buying any NR stuff for me
> or the shop.
Hmmm. That contradicts my experience with their customer support.
Mine has always been very good -- I had 2 times my BlowTorch wouldn't
start (about 18 months apart)... both times they gave me an RMA and
fixed it no charge. And once that my digital pro 12 crapped the bed...
same experience.
That said, for HID lights, I think the performance of the Lights &
Motion lights are better, and I like their design better. I think the
L&Ms are better products overall, but my experience with NightRider was
always quite good w.r.t. support.
Now NightSun, on the other hand... they wrestle with Bullseye for worst
customer service evAr.