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On wearing special clothes

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Joy Beeson

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Jul 30, 2015, 10:18:44 AM7/30/15
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Americans wear special clothes for driving -- what we used to call
"car coats" are now just "coats". When was the last time you saw
someone in a full-length coat?

According to the cycles of fashion, the full skirts of the fifties
should have grown into hoop skirts, then collapsed into bustles. The
hoops didn't appear, and when bustles showed up on schedule, they were
wee tiny things that were worn only to very special events.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

(PeteCresswell)

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Jul 30, 2015, 11:32:59 AM7/30/15
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Per Joy Beeson:
>Americans wear special clothes for driving -- what we used to call
>"car coats" are now just "coats". When was the last time you saw
>someone in a full-length coat?

My guess would be that they went out of use when cars became enclosed
and/or roads paved and drivers were not bathed in dust.
--
Pete Cresswell

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 30, 2015, 12:20:16 PM7/30/15
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 10:18:08 -0300, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>Americans wear special clothes for driving -- what we used to call
>"car coats" are now just "coats". When was the last time you saw
>someone in a full-length coat?

I have my father's "Trench Coat" that he bought and wore once on a
trip to Europe in the 1970's. In Los Angeles, he never wore it
claiming that it made him look like a refugee.

>According to the cycles of fashion, the full skirts of the fifties
>should have grown into hoop skirts, then collapsed into bustles. The
>hoops didn't appear, and when bustles showed up on schedule, they were
>wee tiny things that were worn only to very special events.

My father was in the petticoat manufacturing business during the
1950's. Petticoats literally vaporized in 1957 with the launch of
Sputnik and the demise of the Edsel. They were somehow perceived as a
symbol of western decadence and conspicuous consumption. There was
some sales in Africa and in the country western market but it was not
enough to sustain the product line. I think that's why you didn't see
the hoops and bustles after 1957 as they may have followed the
petticoat into ancient history.

Also, I don't think a cyclic pattern like that since the 1950's.
Starting in the 1960's, fashions followed whatever the dropouts and
rejects from society were wearing at the time, which acquired the
"cool" designation.

During the late 50's, the social losers were the Beatniks, which were
instantly emulated and later cloned into almost a uniform. (Sandals,
sweat shirt, jeans, and poetry). So much for non-conformity.

During the 60's, the flower children provided a "natural look" which
did wonders for selling highly un-natural cosmetics and intentionally
destroyed clothing which allegedly looked "natural". (Tie-dye, ripped
jeans, pre-washed, faded colors, etc). At about the same time, media
celebrities were enlisted to push impractical but distinctive
clothing. (Nehru jacket).

I slept through the 1970's during which nothing happened. We had an
energy crisis which resulted in no fashion changes, and higher prices
on everything, which probably explains why nothing changed.

During the 1980's, it became fashionable to be a gang member. Fashions
that made buyers look like they had been recently released from prison
were the rage. No belt baggy pants, used jeans, tattoos, white
T-shirts, and shaved heads were the rage.

The 90's were weird. The First Gulf War produced some rather odd
looking military like fashions, which failed to sell. That resulted
in a series of failed attempts to adjust the details of men's
fashions. The only things that stuck were denim sport coats. For the
women, it became fashionable to look like a prostitute. Heavy makeup,
red/black coloring, high heels, etc. It was more of a caricature than
a copy, but the look still sells well today among those whos parents
are absolutely terrified at that thought. Somewhat later boys
followed suit with the "Goths", where an all black simulated vampire
in black trench coat was a big seller copying some long forgotten TV
character.

I haven't been paying attention for the last ummm... 15 years, but I
have noticed that women's fashions are following a new trend, where
the symbols overlap. For example, I've seen skool kids looking like a
conglomeration of anime dolls and vamps, or for the boys, muscle men
in ultra tight pants. I have some theories, but I probably don't want
to know how those combinations work.

So, that leaves use with bicycle fashions, which in my never humble
opinion have been a lost cause. There is only so much that can be
done with a jersey. For the last 50 years, bicycle jerseys have been
nothing more than wearable billboards for sponsors. For lesser riders
that lack a sponsor, something cryptic in a foreign language will
suffice. Due to the lack of surface area, the jersey has been drawn
and quartered much in the same way as the mediaeval shield, with each
sponsor doing their best to monopolize their quarter. Short of LED
lighting or flexible LCD images on the jersey, I can't think of much
else that might become fashionable.

What's needed is to replace the bicycle jersey with something else. I
think I have the answer. Safety fashions. The safety jersey will
have all the visibility and attention grabbing features commonly found
in fashions. Garish colors, obnoxious patterns, reflective tape,
flashing lights, direction signals, air bags, water cooling, numerous
pockets, Kevlar vest, traffic camera, smartphone wiring, touchpad
area, sewn-in speakers, etc. Whether any of this stuff will do
anything useful is inconsequential. What's important is that it
identifies the user as someone concerned about safety. If sold
correctly, this could also extend into a collection of safety
streetwear fashions.

Someone is certain to notice that cycling fashions do not quite fit
the street fashions pattern of following the societies losers and
celebrities. This is because cyclists are sufficiently headstrong and
arrogant to not require anyone to follow. At best, they follow each
other, which leads to circular patterns and little change. Change in
components, geometry, and fashions come very slowly. However, I
should point out that the original downhill (mountain bike) sector did
not come from the traditional manufacturers, but rather from a group
of misfits who failed to use their bicycles in the generally approved
manner. For fashions, maybe rock shredded jeans or gauze bandages
covered in road dust.

I have no inside information on the next fashion trend in street
clothes or bicycling. They come and go at alarming rates, as the
fashion industry tries one bizarre idea after another in the hope that
one of them will actually work. I still occasionally read Women's
Wear Daily to keep up to date. Here's the latest issue:
<http://wwd.com/wwd-publications/wwd/2015-07-29-10194001/>
and for men:
<http://wwd.com/menswear-news/fashion/mens-trends-new-york-market-week-10193675/slideshow/>
Sigh... Fortunately, I haven't recently seen many bicycle fashions
but you can get a clue from the "lifestyle" section:
<http://wwd.com/menswear-news/lifestyle/>










--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Joerg

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Jul 30, 2015, 3:07:00 PM7/30/15
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Then came the development of dirt bikes and mountain bikes. Their riders
despise everything man-made such as paved roads. Now we are bathed in
dust again.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

jbeattie

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Jul 30, 2015, 3:14:51 PM7/30/15
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<snip>

Actually, bicycle jerseys didn't become wearable billboards until the '90s, IMO. It was stripes -- either down or across. http://tinyurl.com/oal5loo
file:///C:/Users/jwb/Downloads/palo_alto_1984.pdf
USCF even had a limit on the number of places you could put a logo on a jersey, so my racing jerseys of the day were pretty tame.

Manufacturers didn't blast their names across clothing back then, either, and you had to hunt around to find Euro trade team kit, usually a Brooklyn jersey or a Moltini -- and then you had to suffer the slings and arrows of people calling you a poseur. I remember laughing at some guy in the '80s who was wearing a La Vie Claire Mondrian-esque jersey -- which, IMO, was one of the first trade team jerseys that was widely sold in the U.S. (but I could be wrong). Now I laugh at the guys in head-to-toe Euro team kit creeping up the local hills, bulbous guts straining against their jerseys. Did you really have to buy the socks, too? They're a rare bunch because most of the cyclists around here wear local team gear because everyone is on a local team. We have a billion teams. http://obra.org/teams/ Then there are the clubs: http://pwtc.com/files/imagecache/product_full/Jersey.jpg

Abundant clothing opportunities for all. Plus this place: http://www.oregoncyclewear.com/woolcyclingjerseys.html Go wool. Put your own name on your jersey, just so no one tries to steal it.

-- Jay Beattie.

(PeteCresswell)

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Jul 30, 2015, 3:29:08 PM7/30/15
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4Per Joerg:
>Then came the development of dirt bikes and mountain bikes. Their riders
>despise everything man-made such as paved roads. Now we are bathed in
>dust again.

Yeah, but now being covered in dirt confers status..... -)
--
Pete Cresswell

Frank Krygowski

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Jul 30, 2015, 4:39:17 PM7/30/15
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On 7/30/2015 12:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> What's needed is to replace the bicycle jersey with something else. I
> think I have the answer. Safety fashions. The safety jersey will
> have all the visibility and attention grabbing features commonly found
> in fashions. Garish colors, obnoxious patterns, reflective tape,
> flashing lights, direction signals, air bags, water cooling, numerous
> pockets, Kevlar vest, traffic camera, smartphone wiring, touchpad
> area, sewn-in speakers, etc. Whether any of this stuff will do
> anything useful is inconsequential. What's important is that it
> identifies the user as someone concerned about safety.

:-) Then we can watch the "Saved my life!!!" anecdotes flow in.


--
- Frank Krygowski

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 30, 2015, 7:44:02 PM7/30/15
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I have minimalist sneakers for driving, yellow shooters glasses..

nylon shorts, polyester mesh T's for hot Florida...which is infrequently scene...long pants and cotton de riguer.

https://goo.gl/MWlTLz

or worser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumptuary_law

Lieb is almost New Yorker material

GO LIEB !

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 30, 2015, 8:25:01 PM7/30/15
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 12:14:46 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
<jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:

>Actually, bicycle jerseys didn't become wearable billboards
>until the '90s, IMO. It was stripes -- either down or across.
>http://tinyurl.com/oal5loo
>file:///C:/Users/jwb/Downloads/palo_alto_1984.pdf
>USCF even had a limit on the number of places you could
>put a logo on a jersey, so my racing jerseys of the day
>were pretty tame.

When I bought a touring bicycle (Miyata 610) in 1984, part of the
requisite haggling was over some of the accessories that I was also
buying at the same time. The shop had far too many jerseys on the
rack, so I negotiated three for the price of one. I still have the
one I wanted, which was a solid navy blue wool with white trim.
However, the other two were a checkerboard of Italian names and logos.
They weren't as elaborate as todays billboards, but certainly were
advertising of some form. I never bothered to decode the Italian.
Both disappeared somewhat later.

>Manufacturers didn't blast their names across clothing back then,
>either, and you had to hunt around to find Euro trade team kit,
>usually a Brooklyn jersey or a Moltini -- and then you had to
>suffer the slings and arrows of people calling you a poseur.

That would have been me. At the time, I had no clue what to wear and
what was acceptable.

>I remember laughing at some guy in the '80s who was wearing
>a La Vie Claire Mondrian-esque jersey -- which, IMO, was one
>of the first trade team jerseys that was widely sold in the
>U.S. (but I could be wrong). Now I laugh at the guys in
>head-to-toe Euro team kit creeping up the local hills, bulbous
>uts straining against their jerseys.

Yeah, that would also be me. I don't have one of these, but I'm
tempted to buy one:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=old+fart+cycling+team+jersey>
As I vaguely recall, the stores were full of jerseys bearing real and
fake team names, mostly in European languages. Since they apparently
didn't sell very well, they were cheap or on sale, which is what
caught my attention. However, I don't recall exactly how elaborate
the design. I assumed they were much like todays billboards, but
perhaps I'm mistaken.

>Abundant clothing opportunities for all. Plus this place:
>http://www.oregoncyclewear.com/woolcyclingjerseys.html
>Go wool. Put your own name on your jersey, just so no one
>tries to steal it.

Such jerseys come in two styles, horizontal stripes and vertical
stripes. The horizontal stripes make me look shorter while the
vertical makes me look taller. Dark colors make me look heavier, and
light colors lighter. So, it's light and vertical for me. Never mind
the name. However, I want one with a vertical automobile tire track
down back. Common enough on tee shirts, but not jerseys. Well,
here's a bad start:
<http://www.pisgahareasorba.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tire-tracks.jpg>
Or, I could sew my own (yet another project).

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 30, 2015, 8:42:34 PM7/30/15
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 15:29:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:
Which means that someone will eventually sell a "spray on dirt kit" or
the equivalent, to make the bicycle and owner look like they've been
riding in the mud (winter) or dust (summer). It's already available
for cars.
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/SPRAY-MUD-LIQUID-REAL-200ml/dp/B005LB8W9O>
<https://www.behance.net/gallery/24473607/Volkswagen-Instant-Off-Road-Kit>
<http://www.psfk.com/2015/04/volkswagens-instant-off-road-kit.html>
I wonder what a stucco hopper spray gun will do when filled with mud?

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 30, 2015, 9:04:16 PM7/30/15
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 16:43:54 -0700 (PDT), avag...@gmail.com wrote:

>I have minimalist sneakers for driving, yellow shooters glasses..

I prefer steel toe construction boots and humongous platform pedals.
The yellow tinted wrap around safety glasses seem to wreck my night
vision, but I like to wear them when working outdoors. I've never
tried them riding.

>nylon shorts, polyester mesh T's for hot Florida...which is
>infrequently scene...long pants and cotton de riguer.

Long pants for me. Covers some surgical scars and bowed legs.
T-shirts are out as they don't hide my growing paunch. Bicycle
clothing requirements change as we get older.

>https://goo.gl/MWlTLz

Yuck. Lycra, Spandex, or Elastane. I hate them all. Makes me look
awful. Instead of showing super-hero muscles, they show flab and
paunch. I think I gave up wearing shrink wrap was when I was about 18
years old.

>Lieb is almost New Yorker material

I was in New York when I was about 5 years old just long enough to
contract and recover from chicken pox. It was not a memorable visit.
I've only been back once at an airport pit stop on my way to Europe.

>GO LIEB !

Sniff. Ok, I'll go away.

Duane

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Jul 30, 2015, 10:11:54 PM7/30/15
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Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 15:29:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> 4Per Joerg:
>>> Then came the development of dirt bikes and mountain bikes. Their riders
>>> despise everything man-made such as paved roads. Now we are bathed in
>>> dust again.
>
>> Yeah, but now being covered in dirt confers status..... -)
>
> Which means that someone will eventually sell a "spray on dirt kit" or
> the equivalent, to make the bicycle and owner look like they've been
> riding in the mud (winter) or dust (summer). It's already available
> for cars.
> <http://www.amazon.co.uk/SPRAY-MUD-LIQUID-REAL-200ml/dp/B005LB8W9O>
> <https://www.behance.net/gallery/24473607/Volkswagen-Instant-Off-Road-Kit>
> <http://www.psfk.com/2015/04/volkswagens-instant-off-road-kit.html>
> I wonder what a stucco hopper spray gun will do when filled with mud?
>
>
>


http://www.treehugger.com/culture/10-diy-tips-for-making-your-bike-the-ugliest-on-the-block-camouflage-against-bike-thieves.html
--
duane

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 30, 2015, 10:30:09 PM7/30/15
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NNNNNNNNNNNNN

THE ITALIAN ONE SEZ

ECONOMICO EBREO

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 30, 2015, 11:47:14 PM7/30/15
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 19:30:07 -0700 (PDT), avag...@gmail.com wrote:

>NNNNNNNNNNNNN

Fix your sticky keyboard.

>THE ITALIAN ONE SEZ
>ECONOMICO EBREO

One of the Italian phrases probably was:
"If you can read this jersey, you're drafting too close".

Anything worth doing is also worth overdoing. How about a jersey full
of cycling trade names and logos?
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+brand+logos>

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 3:06:57 AM7/31/15
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Stunning...do we find this phenomenal in California ?

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 7:34:55 AM7/31/15
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BBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

here's one for Moulton

http://img12.deviantart.net/ec10/i/2007/103/a/9/molting_gecko_by_electr0freak.jpg

Google Translator follows the typical Google Moral Pillar ensemble where software is designed into Babbitree but vastly skewed with reality...asking GooTrans for 'CHEAP' in Italian is like asking Trump for....

I dunno...Ima gonna ask GooTrans for 'MALO'

who knows.

Beatties run thru is amazing. Why Portland ? The road environment ?

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 7:38:41 AM7/31/15
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On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 7:34:55 AM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> BBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>
> here's one for Moulton
>
> http://img12.deviantart.net/ec10/i/2007/103/a/9/molting_gecko_by_electr0freak.jpg
>

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Google Translator follows the typical Google Moral Pillar ensemble where software is designed into Babbitree but vastly skewed with reality...asking GooTrans for 'CHEAP' in Italian is like asking Trump for....

I dunno...Ima gonna ask GooTrans for 'MALO'

who knows.

Beatties run thru is amazing. Why Portland ? The road environment ?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/d4/9d/95d49dd2c47bd8ce174274058b7aaa05.jpg

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 8:44:12 AM7/31/15
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On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 7:34:55 AM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
for ? http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/716vspxsNZL.jpg

Radey Shouman

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Jul 31, 2015, 10:09:00 AM7/31/15
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I guess the joke's on me -- I have several of these, long- and
short-sleeved, and would happily buy another. They're comfortable, not
itchy, and withstand machine washing. On a rainy day they may smell a
bit of peat-smoked sheep, but even after wearing three or four times
between washes they never get the homeless shelter pong that polyester
does.

When you stop, they look like clothing, not sports equipment. (Putting
your onw name on them might not help in that regard.)


--

Frank Krygowski

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Jul 31, 2015, 10:24:18 AM7/31/15
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On 7/31/2015 10:08 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
>
>>
>> Abundant clothing opportunities for all. Plus this place:
>> http://www.oregoncyclewear.com/woolcyclingjerseys.html Go wool. Put
>> your own name on your jersey, just so no one tries to steal it.
>
> I guess the joke's on me -- I have several of these, long- and
> short-sleeved, and would happily buy another. They're comfortable, not
> itchy, and withstand machine washing. On a rainy day they may smell a
> bit of peat-smoked sheep, but even after wearing three or four times
> between washes they never get the homeless shelter pong that polyester
> does.

+1. I don't own that brand, but for me, nothing works as well as wool.


--
- Frank Krygowski

jbeattie

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Jul 31, 2015, 10:31:07 AM7/31/15
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On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 7:09:00 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:

<snip>

> > Abundant clothing opportunities for all. Plus this place:
> > http://www.oregoncyclewear.com/woolcyclingjerseys.html Go wool. Put
> > your own name on your jersey, just so no one tries to steal it.
>
> I guess the joke's on me -- I have several of these, long- and
> short-sleeved, and would happily buy another. They're comfortable, not
> itchy, and withstand machine washing. On a rainy day they may smell a
> bit of peat-smoked sheep, but even after wearing three or four times
> between washes they never get the homeless shelter pong that polyester
> does.
>
> When you stop, they look like clothing, not sports equipment. (Putting
> your onw name on them might not help in that regard.)

Well, I think wool jerseys still look like jerseys when you stop -- unless you go with the polo shirt look of the 30s. Anyway, I have several wool long sleeve jerseys, and I use them regularly during the fall. They are the perfect weight for use under a jacket when it is raining but not too cold. When it gets really cold, I go with fleecier poly jerseys. My wool jerseys are plain, single color Kucharic with no brand advertising.

-- Jay Beattie.

Joerg

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Jul 31, 2015, 10:54:06 AM7/31/15
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On 2015-07-30 5:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 15:29:04 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> 4Per Joerg:
>>> Then came the development of dirt bikes and mountain bikes. Their riders
>>> despise everything man-made such as paved roads. Now we are bathed in
>>> dust again.
>
>> Yeah, but now being covered in dirt confers status..... -)
>
> Which means that someone will eventually sell a "spray on dirt kit" or
> the equivalent, to make the bicycle and owner look like they've been
> riding in the mud (winter) or dust (summer). It's already available
> for cars.


Forrest Gump invented that a long time ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOHr85z9k64

One of my favorite movies.

jbeattie

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Jul 31, 2015, 11:29:59 AM7/31/15
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The only universal negative about poly is the stink issue -- otherwise, it can be engineered to do practically anything. For low bulk/volume layering in very cold weather, poly makes more sense. For mild weather, I like wool -- and only with a shell in rain (a wet exterior wool layer is miserable). For really hot weather, I wear a super-light poly jersey, but the wrong poly can be like wearing a trash bag. A really light wool jersey would be good for hot weather, but I haven't owned a short sleeve wool jersey since all my stripey Sergal and Moas bit the dust.

It's been hot here -- 103 yesterday. I left the building and got zapped by the hot sun, and my butt got hot -- black shorts. Maybe I should get some of those grotesque white Francaise des Jeux shorts!

-- Jay Beattie.

Radey Shouman

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Jul 31, 2015, 1:44:27 PM7/31/15
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For comparison, I also have some from Kucharik, and these are quite
a bit nicer.

--

Radey Shouman

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Jul 31, 2015, 1:48:08 PM7/31/15
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I'll wear the mooted short sleeve jersey up to 75-80F. 103 is almost
surely outside any Portland design specs.

--

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 1:54:06 PM7/31/15
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?

why wear a jersey or crew with Castelli or US POSTAL or ?

what was the Chicken's sponsor ? BANK CAYMAN ?

I passed 3 US POSTALS ( USPO was in oppo diection) once....and my first uniform attack.

does or did leave a lasting impression. 20 and they're a blur.....

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 1:58:25 PM7/31/15
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gnaw....wash with a .5 cup of isopropyl per $5 load....

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 1:58:47 PM7/31/15
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avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 2:05:54 PM7/31/15
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(PeteCresswell)

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Jul 31, 2015, 3:17:38 PM7/31/15
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Per Duane:
>http://www.treehugger.com/culture/10-diy-tips-for-making-your-bike-the-ugliest-on-the-block-camouflage-against-bike-thieves.html

One of my most gratifying bike moments was when my
son-in-law-the-farmer-who-knows-equipment said of
my SevenCycles FS: "Man, that thing looks like it's beat to shit.".
--
Pete Cresswell

(PeteCresswell)

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Jul 31, 2015, 3:20:05 PM7/31/15
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Per Joerg:
>Forrest Gump invented that a long time ago.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOHr85z9k64
>
>One of my favorite movies.

I know a couple from China who saw the movie just after they had arrived
in the USA - barely speaking English. The movie made both of them cry.
--
Pete Cresswell

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2015, 6:25:20 PM7/31/15
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Radey Shouman

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Jul 31, 2015, 6:58:09 PM7/31/15
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Never been a fan of the polo collar; it looks too much the product of
the sort of rulesmanship that gave the world the butterfly stroke. Even
without a collar there are gradations of indoor-appropriateness. The
Portland Cycle Wear jerseys are near the top of the inconspicuous when
sitting in front of a tablecloth scale.

--

Joerg

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Jul 31, 2015, 8:34:11 PM7/31/15
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On 2015-07-31 11:05 AM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> Joerg.......http://sprintdesign.co/cycling-clothing/red-baron_files/9988_SD413_RedBaron.png
>

I had this picture on the driver side door of my Citroen 2CV:

https://faceswaps.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/snoopy-1.jpg?w=203

It made lots of kids ask dad to slow down, let me pass, so that he could
pass again. Real slow. Then they all had their noses pressed against the
windows.

jbeattie

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Jul 31, 2015, 8:48:44 PM7/31/15
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"Rulesmanship that gave the world the butterfly stroke." I'm stealing that and finding some way to work it in to my next argument -- oral or written. I think the butterfly stroke was designed by orthopedic surgeons.

-- Jay Beattie.



Radey Shouman

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Aug 1, 2015, 4:45:05 PM8/1/15
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Go nuts.

For non-swimmers, butterfly was originally designed to qualify as breastroke:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_stroke#History

but it's nothing that would ever occur to someone that actually wanted to swim from
point A to point B.


--

avag...@gmail.com

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Aug 1, 2015, 6:36:05 PM8/1/15
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as dangerous as a gross shift in saddle angle....

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