trailer: hole, gap, washer, grooves, and dome nuts

[Emanuel Berg]

On a bicycle trailer, facing outward, the wheel axle
fits into a hole. Here, the dome nut is free so most
tools will do. On the other, inward side, there isn't
a hole but a horizontal gap. Here, there isn't a lot
of space so a socket wrench or ratchet I suppose
is preferrable.

1) Is there a reason for the gap (instead of hole),
like room to adjust after an injury to the frame,
or so?

And 2), is there a method how to get the wheel plain
straight? No matter how careful I do it, it seems
I pull the axle a little bit out of the original
alignment with that last pull to seal it.

3) Speaking of dome nuts, some have grooves, if that
means you don't use a washer, what has more strength,
plain + washer or just grooves?

Thanks for all your help.

--
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[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:10:55 +0200, Emanuel Berg
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:

>On a bicycle trailer, facing outward, the wheel axle
>fits into a hole. Here, the dome nut is free so most
>tools will do. On the other, inward side, there isn't
>a hole but a horizontal gap. Here, there isn't a lot
>of space so a socket wrench or ratchet I suppose
>is preferrable.
>
>1) Is there a reason for the gap (instead of hole),
>like room to adjust after an injury to the frame,
>or so?

I'm not sure you explained that sufficiently, but if you mean that the
outboard end of the axle is aligned by fitting through a hole and the
inboard end fits in a slot and can be wiggled back and forth I would
guess that is an design feature which is intended to allow for sloppy
fit ups and misalignment during manufacture.

>And 2), is there a method how to get the wheel plain
>straight? No matter how careful I do it, it seems
>I pull the axle a little bit out of the original
>alignment with that last pull to seal it.

Very careful twisting the wrench :-) That is a joke but essentially
true. You will need to learn how to tighten a nut/bolt by twisting
only, no pulling on long wrench handles which dislocates things.

>3) Speaking of dome nuts, some have grooves, if that
>means you don't use a washer, what has more strength,
>plain + washer or just grooves?
>

By "grooves" I assume that you mean grooves on the face of the nut as
an anti-loosen feature, but that doesn't have anything to do with the
strength of the nut-axle joining which would be a feature of the nut
and axle thread engagement.

>Thanks for all your help.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 4/29/2016 12:10 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> On a bicycle trailer, facing outward, the wheel axle
> fits into a hole. Here, the dome nut is free so most
> tools will do. On the other, inward side, there isn't
> a hole but a horizontal gap. Here, there isn't a lot
> of space so a socket wrench or ratchet I suppose
> is preferrable.
>
> 1) Is there a reason for the gap (instead of hole),
> like room to adjust after an injury to the frame,
> or so?
>
> And 2), is there a method how to get the wheel plain
> straight? No matter how careful I do it, it seems
> I pull the axle a little bit out of the original
> alignment with that last pull to seal it.
>
> 3) Speaking of dome nuts, some have grooves, if that
> means you don't use a washer, what has more strength,
> plain + washer or just grooves?
>
> Thanks for all your help.
>

I don't fully understand your situation as described but
generally a wheel which 'walks' when the fastener is
tightened will respond well to oil on threads and faces.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

On 4/29/2016 1:10 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> On a bicycle trailer, facing outward, the wheel axle
> fits into a hole. Here, the dome nut is free so most
> tools will do. On the other, inward side, there isn't
> a hole but a horizontal gap. Here, there isn't a lot
> of space so a socket wrench or ratchet I suppose
> is preferrable.
>
> 1) Is there a reason for the gap (instead of hole),
> like room to adjust after an injury to the frame,
> or so?
>
> And 2), is there a method how to get the wheel plain
> straight? No matter how careful I do it, it seems
> I pull the axle a little bit out of the original
> alignment with that last pull to seal it.
>
> 3) Speaking of dome nuts, some have grooves, if that
> means you don't use a washer, what has more strength,
> plain + washer or just grooves?
>
> Thanks for all your help.

I think a link to a photo would help us understand your problem. There
are lots of designs of bicycle trailers. But:

It sounds like you're describing some sort of a slot to allow for wheel
alignment. If pulling a wrench handle moves the attachment point,
perhaps you're applying force parallel to the slot? If so, can you
apply the wrench with the handle parallel to the slot, and apply force
to the handle perpendicular to the slot? Assuming the width of the slot
is close to the axle thickness, things shouldn't move much in that
direction.

Alternately, there are wrenches with T handles, that allow you to apply
pure torque with no sideways force. Perhaps you can use such a wrench,
if there's room. Or perhaps you can simply have a helper apply force to
the wheel to prevent alignment from changing as you tighten things.

About the nut: It sounds like you're talking about a serrated face nut:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serrated_face_nut
Assuming the metal it clamps against is soft enough to take a slight
impression, this should resist loosening better than a plain nut plus
flat washer. But generally, I much prefer other nut locking methods -
say a nut with a nylon insert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyloc_nut
or (my favorite) an anaerobic thread lock compound.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Emanuel Berg]

John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm not sure you explained that sufficiently, but if
> you mean that the outboard end of the axle is
> aligned by fitting through a hole and the inboard
> end fits in a slot and can be wiggled back and forth
> I would guess that is an design feature which is
> intended to allow for sloppy fit ups and
> misalignment during manufacture.

OK, manufacture - of course! I don't know why
I assumed it would be perfect just because it is made
in a factory...

>> And 2), is there a method how to get the wheel
>> plain straight? No matter how careful I do it, it
>> seems I pull the axle a little bit out of the
>> original alignment with that last pull to seal it.
>
> Very careful twisting the wrench :-) That is a joke
> but essentially true. You will need to learn how to
> tighten a nut/bolt by twisting only, no pulling on
> long wrench handles which dislocates things.

OK :)

>> 3) Speaking of dome nuts, some have grooves, if
>> that means you don't use a washer, what has more
>> strength, plain + washer or just grooves?
>>
> By "grooves" I assume that you mean grooves on the
> face of the nut as an anti-loosen feature, but that
> doesn't have anything to do with the strength of the
> nut-axle joining which would be a feature of the nut
> and axle thread engagement.

Yes, thats what I mean, "anti-loosen", then! Does one
hold better than the other in general? Or roughly
the same?

[Emanuel Berg]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> It sounds like you're describing some sort of a slot
> to allow for wheel alignment. If pulling a wrench
> handle moves the attachment point, perhaps you're
> applying force parallel to the slot? If so, can you
> apply the wrench with the handle parallel to the
> slot, and apply force to the handle perpendicular to
> the slot? Assuming the width of the slot is close to
> the axle thickness, things shouldn't move much in
> that direction.

Interesting. So if the handle is put X-ways before the
pull, and then moved into Y-ways, that should minimize
movement along the slot...

> Alternately, there are wrenches with T handles, that
> allow you to apply pure torque with no sideways
> force. Perhaps you can use such a wrench, if
> there's room.

Interesting (again). Yes, I have those, but only with
hex keys, not sockets. But perhaps I can assemble one
with bits now that I think about it...

> About the nut: It sounds like you're talking about
> a serrated face nut:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serrated_face_nut
> Assuming the metal it clamps against is soft enough
> to take a slight impression, this should resist
> loosening better than a plain nut plus flat washer.

OK!

> But generally, I much prefer other nut locking methods
> - say a nut with a nylon insert
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyloc_nut

Yes, I have several buckets of those but they are
harder to put in. Also, some people say they can't be
operated several times without loosing their property.
Maybe it is just slander... With them, I take it you
don't need a flat washer?

> or (my favorite) an anaerobic thread lock compound.

OK, never heard of :)

[Emanuel Berg]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> I don't fully understand your situation as described

Ha ha, no :)

But the other guys understood, and reading their
posts, I'm sure you understand as well, so if you
don't mind, feel free to add to their stories :)

[Frank Krygowski]

In the U.S. at least, Loctite is the classic brand name. I believe they
invented the stuff.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Emanuel Berg]

John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:

> Very careful twisting the wrench :-) That is a joke
> but essentially true. You will need to learn how to
> tighten a nut/bolt by twisting only, no pulling on
> long wrench handles which dislocates things.

After trying an embarrassingly long time, the wheels
are now aligned! Amazing!

I did it by starting with the slot side, using the
socket wrench perpendicularly, like a "ratchet
screwdriver" (Swedish "hylsmejsel" = literally "socket
driver" which describes it well - according to Google
Translate it is the bland "ratchet screwdriver" tho so
I suppose that is it) - I have a bunch of those,
whatever they are called, but only in 8 and 10 mm, and
with bits, up to 13 mm. This nut is 14 mm, and I don't
have that in this particular configuration, but
perhaps I'll ask for it next time I visit
Crooks"R"Us...

[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:07:41 +0200, Emanuel Berg
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:

>AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>
>> I don't fully understand your situation as described
>
>Ha ha, no :)
>
>But the other guys understood, and reading their
>posts, I'm sure you understand as well, so if you
>don't mind, feel free to add to their stories :)

Yup, three people replied to you:

I wrote, "I'm not sure you explained that sufficiently", Frank says a
picture would help, and Andrew above, says that he doesn't fully
understand".

Where are these "other guys" that understood?
--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I'm not sure. The serrated face nuts are quite widely used in
automobiles, I believe. But are not used at all on aircraft, to my
knowledge.

On the other hand while automobile operators certainly get upset at
having to get out and walk aircraft operators get positively rabid.
:-)





--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:04:12 +0200, Emanuel Berg
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> It sounds like you're describing some sort of a slot
>> to allow for wheel alignment. If pulling a wrench
>> handle moves the attachment point, perhaps you're
>> applying force parallel to the slot? If so, can you
>> apply the wrench with the handle parallel to the
>> slot, and apply force to the handle perpendicular to
>> the slot? Assuming the width of the slot is close to
>> the axle thickness, things shouldn't move much in
>> that direction.
>
>Interesting. So if the handle is put X-ways before the
>pull, and then moved into Y-ways, that should minimize
>movement along the slot...
>
>> Alternately, there are wrenches with T handles, that
>> allow you to apply pure torque with no sideways
>> force. Perhaps you can use such a wrench, if
>> there's room.
>
>Interesting (again). Yes, I have those, but only with
>hex keys, not sockets. But perhaps I can assemble one
>with bits now that I think about it...
>

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/t-handle-socket-set

>> About the nut: It sounds like you're talking about
>> a serrated face nut:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serrated_face_nut
>> Assuming the metal it clamps against is soft enough
>> to take a slight impression, this should resist
>> loosening better than a plain nut plus flat washer.
>
>OK!
>
>> But generally, I much prefer other nut locking methods
>> - say a nut with a nylon insert
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyloc_nut
>
>Yes, I have several buckets of those but they are
>harder to put in. Also, some people say they can't be
>operated several times without loosing their property.
>Maybe it is just slander... With them, I take it you
>don't need a flat washer?

Yes, self locking nuts have a service life. The usual practice is if
the nut can be screwed in the depth of the nut with the fingers it
should not be considered as self locking.

>> or (my favorite) an anaerobic thread lock compound.
>
>OK, never heard of :)
--

Cheers,

John B.