I would like to discuss 700-C high-pressure tires

[retrog...@gmail.com]

Tried the Michelin Pro 4s. They weigh about 200 grams and are rated at 116 lbs. maximum pressure. Cool tire with a great road feel, but pretty pricey and they tend to blow out suddenly if you hit any rocks with the sidewall. The tire is trashed if that happens. And since it is a folding tire, it can jump off the rim pretty easily when suddenly deflated. I've had two sudden blowouts with the Pro 4s while riding slowly, but it makes me paranoid that I might have one on a fast descent.

I'm now using the CST Correre. It is also a slick with a dual tread compound. It weighs about 100 grams more per tire than the Pro 4, but only costs half as much and can be inflated to 130 lbs. They seem to have a more substantial sidewall than the Pro 4s. If my old electric pump will inflate the CSTs to about 120 PSI, I'm going to check out their road feel and see if they seem significantly slower than the Pro 4s.

I would like to have your opinions about your most and least-favorite high-pressure 700-Cs. Thanks!

[Joerg]

Gatorskin wire bead tires, plus super-thick tubes of about 0.120" wall
thickness all around (all around is the important part), running at
100-110psi. Yeah, it's a heavy set-up but no more flats. Plus it holds
the air so well that I have to pump in additional air only every two
months instead of every week. That's another major bonus to me, I can
just hop on and ride off.

A major downside: Gatorskins seem to run a bit small and it was a real
bear to get them on because I have almost flat Mavix rims.

Regarding retro, my road bike is from the early 80's, ye olde Reynolds
steel.

BTW, on my MTB I did the same except that has tubes of 0.160" thickness
plus tire liners plus old tube pieces over the liners. It's run at
55psi. Also no more flats.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[James]

I have been using Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tyres on the rear wheel
for a couple of years. I haven't had *any* blow outs. While living
near Melbourne I got about 1-2 punctures a year. Since I moved to
Brisbane it seems like I've had almost 1 per month. Twice recently from
tek screws. A few times from glass shards.

Not long after I started using Pro 4 tyres I got a puncture while riding
over Mt Dandenong, and it was from a side wall slash. The cut was about
8mm long. I sleeved it on the road side with a piece of business card.
The tread was not badly worn, so at home I patched the inside with a
piece of non-stretch fabric, and had no problem with the tyre until the
tread had worn out some months later.

I have to use quite a bit of effort to get the tyres on and off my rims
if I don't use tyre levers, so I would be surprised if they would just
fall off in the event of a blow out.

I use a 25mm Pro 4 on the rear and rarely put more than 90psi in it.
It's quite rideable with only 80 psi in it, though that is dependent on
rider weight. It actually measures 27mm wide once mounted and inflated.

I haven't worn out a front tyre for a long time, and still using a very
old Michelin Krylion tyre - an ancestor of the Pro 4. I may still have
1 or 2 unused in my stock.

I've cycled with fellows who swear by GP4000 tyres and others, but from
my casual observances they are likely to have as many punctures as me,
if not more - however that could be partly because of riding
differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost a whole year
between flats in Melbourne.

--
JS

[avag...@gmail.com]

I have forgotten the reason for your hi pressure tire experience.

Higher pressure are not synonymous with improved handling...there's a sweet spot for geometry road surface rider balance wheels spoke torque barometer temperature wind....ndhdye7-@!

https://www.google.com/#q=bike+messenger+tires

https://www.google.com/#q=panaracer+t+serv+messenger+review

[jbeattie]

I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall damage than the Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are ridiculously expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my go-to commuting tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at least the 28mm.

The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal when you can get them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There may be a better price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be miserable to ride on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got five flats on one ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.

-- Jay Beattie.

[AMuzi]

Michelin 50 were quite a long while ago. I was frustrated
with those wearing so fast that I bought a pair of Michelin
ZigZag. That was a self inflicted punishment, much like
Joerg's setup, and cured me of heavy dead feeling tires
forever. The occasional flat on snappy corner hugging tires
is IMHO a better choice than perpetual suffering with heavy
tires. I sold that bike the next spring to pay for a real
race bike with tubs and never looked back. YMMV.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Duane]

Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?


--
duane

[avag...@gmail.com]

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be miserable to ride on

OP wants pressure...the T's and their lesser cousins deliver.

Less responsive, off course but no flats.

I see Tires/Bikes Direct pans Schwalbe for overweightness

The OP would best move toward a responsive urban touring tire from Conti with a nice round carcass n see if they blow on him

Yawl doin it again climbing the mtns ...

[avag...@gmail.com]

I bought a pair of Michelin
> ZigZag.

NO !

http://zigzag.com/

zee french sacre blue !

zigzag tires...oh I see the....these here tires slalom or better gymkhana whatever that was....

[James]

Certainly not easy with my rims & rim tape, which makes me wonder about
the OP's set up when he says they might just fall off after a blow out.
Normally I can *just* get them off and on without tyre levers or
hurting my hands, but if it was cold or I was very tired, I would resort
to tyre levers.

That said, I have watched people have more difficulty with other tyre
brands while repairing a flat out on the road. Rim and rim tape
combinations affect tyre removal and fitting.

--
JS

[jbeattie]

Not on Aeroheads, DT450s, OpenPros or DA C35s -- at least nothing stands out in my mind, but that is probably more a comment on my mind than the tires. I have been using Pros(1/2/3/4) as my main fast tire since they were introduced -- so I've mounted a lot of them and fixed plenty of flats (not suggesting they're flat prone, because they're not). My tolerance for tight tires is very high, though, since I judge everything by first generation Turbos -- which were know to make grown men cry.

My current annoying tire is a Pasella on my son's bike that I'm trying to sell. It won't bead no matter what I do. It might be the POS disc rims, but I don't recall other tires having that problem. I'll probably peel it off and use another tire from my beater tire collection -- or try using soap or something.

-- Jay Beattie.

[jbeattie]

Well, this is an interesting perspective. I never expect to get a race tire (or tyre) off without at least one tire iron to get things started. If using a tire iron is the criterion for tightness, then I guess the Pros are tight. I'll try not using a lever the next time and see what I think. I only expect tool-less removal for my fatty commuter tires.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Duane]

I can usually manage rolling them off and on after the initial
installation. Depends on how cold my fingers are.


--
duane

[Duane]

I like the spec turbo pros for an all around tire. They could last longer
but they roll well and don't get puncture flats easily. The type of riding
j do those are the important concerns. If I was racing maybe I'd choose
something else.




--
duane

[Duane]

I have a friend that uses Michelins and I've had to help him fix flats more
than once even with tire levers. He switched to Contis finally and no more
problems. I guess the Michelins rolled well.

--
duane

[avag...@gmail.com]

Michelim ? US this a widely held opunion ? Regional ? Last I looked here Continental ruled 8 years ago ? M was a backwater tire from a backwater country

Turbo ? great ride but piggy over 20 miles..I have several on the hay nailer

Try the gatorskins...

The lever n hook levers n hooks on side away from your belly them hook thumbs n squeeze in and around toward the LEVER

Then add a second lever ad nauseum...

Piggy ... a Jimmy Dean...

Of you're having flats trying to ride destination buy a T Messenger, with thornproof

[retrog...@gmail.com]

I can get the Pro 4s off a Mavic Open Sport rim with one tire iron, and can put them back on by hand. They didn't actually roll off the rim when I had my sudden punctures, but it felt like they could, maybe.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 7/27/2015 6:02 PM, James wrote:
> Most folks are amazed I could ride almost a whole year
> between flats in Melbourne.

I think the closer a person rides toward the road's edge, the more flats
they get. Cars' tires sweep the pavement clean.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Lou Holtman]

+1. Never understood why people ride shitty tires just to avoid an occasional flat.

Lou

[Duane]

Agreed. But these days you can get pretty decent tires with a fairly good
level of flat protection. Not bullet proof but like you say it's not worth
riding bad tired to avoid occasional flats.


--
duane

[AMuzi]

No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow cross
section are just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to
differ much.

[avag...@gmail.com]

. Never understood why people ride shitty tires just to avoid an occasional flat.

Lou.....

there's X time traveling toward Y....a threshold exists for pain - riding

search into North America's Conti site....belt belt belt

...............

% tubular riders ? wanna be racer rubber users ?

[Duane]

I believe you. That's why I was asking. I've had to help a couple
people with Michelins to get tires off and on and it was usually a
bitch. I figured it was the wire bead or something. The common thread
is that they use the same LBS who recommends these tires. Don't
remember the actual model though.

[AMuzi]

That adds another variable. The wire-bead models, City,
ProTek, Dynamic etc are a very different series from the
Aramid-bead Lithion, Pro, Cross etc. Wire bead models are
usually on cheaper fatter rims which is a different thing
entirely for tire mounting.

[Duane]

These were not cheaper fatter rims. Maybe that's the problem. They
were standard 23mm rims. Not the deep dish variety though. I figure if
you want 80mm wheels you can fix your own flats. <g>

[jbeattie]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Phil W Lee wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> considered Tue, 28 Jul 2015
<snip>

> >+1. Never understood why people ride shitty tires just to avoid an occasional flat.
> >

> It depends on the reason for the riding.
> If you commute a shortish distance on surfaces which make punctures
> fairly likely, the reliability is probably worth it.
> Then for weekend fun rides, something nice and fast.

I think most people would agree on that. I'm regretting spending so much time commuting on my nice Conti 4 Seasons -- only one flat when I hit a big rock on the trail home a week ago, but more importantly, I'm wearing them out. They're too expensive to be daily drivers. With all the warm weather, I've been riding a racing bike with fenders to work and not my fat tire commuter. Price per mile is much lower on the commuter.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Duane]

Maybe but don't ignore the opportunity costs of less fun on the commuter.

[avag...@gmail.com]

....

RIGHT WHAT YOU DO IS PLACE THE LEVER........

[avag...@gmail.com]

GooImages has pages of

MONKEY CHANGING BICYCLE TIRE

https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1185&bih=539&q=MONKEY+CHANGING+BICYCLE+TIRE&oq=MONKEY+CHANGING+BICYCLE+TIRE&gs_l=img.12...1952.8887.0.12056.28.12.0.16.16.0.211.1784.0j9j2.11.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..12.16.1857.tZmqpJlg8Bw

[retrog...@gmail.com]

I don't care about that, Gene. George of the Jungle has already conclusively established that you need steel tracks:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkczs4aef5sjavg/George%20make%20joke.mp3?dl=0

Therefore I really wish you would stop raising this issue so often and so improvidently!

[James]

Most of the roads I rode around Melbourne do not have bike lanes. Many
around Brisbane do. It is likely that the bike lanes are the difference.

--
JS

[avag...@gmail.com]

.................

SORRY, no listen audio. what issue....tire levers ?

I surveyed the lever question several years ago before the internet cycle info increase...so I'm not up to date.....finding zero response to lever use both in person and here in cyberspace.

what I saw and herd in LBS on the road in the shop was a complete disregard for stretching tire across rim...INTO A LARGER SIZE.....as installer sets the bead.

Currently, I'm trying to move canoe fossils and river invertebrates into accepting the forward canoe deck as a requisite aerodynamic aid for transits

https://picasaweb.google.com/102234459580640424681/CANOEHULLCOVER

thurd, this is an open forum where egocentric responses to the flow are unjustified.

[avag...@gmail.com]

we have trash seasons.....more slave labor gives more trash...more construction gives more trash...more construction slaverygives more trash...more construction gives more triax traffic ruining roads...more dry weather gives more trash.

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 3:37:33 PM UTC-4, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:

https://goo.gl/1EzJm0

im·prov·i·dent


/ˌimˈprävəd(ə)nt/


adjective

adjective: improvident




not having or showing foresight; spendthrift or thoughtless.
"improvident and undisciplined behavior"


synonyms: spendthrift, thriftless, wasteful, prodigal, profligate, extravagant, lavish, free-spending, immoderate, excessive; More

GEE WHIZ I TRYING TO YUHYUHYUHYUH

[Joerg]

That's what I had with Vredesteins and others. So I bought Gatorskins.

>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>
>> Michelin 50 were quite a long while ago. I was frustrated with
>> those wearing so fast that I bought a pair of Michelin ZigZag.
>> That was a self inflicted punishment, much like Joerg's setup, and
>> cured me of heavy dead feeling tires forever. The occasional flat
>> on snappy corner hugging tires is IMHO a better choice than
>> perpetual suffering with heavy tires. I sold that bike the next
>> spring to pay for a real race bike with tubs and never looked back.
>> YMMV.
>>

A friend said the same, that he'd never want such heavy tires and tubes.
I never understood that. While I did feel the difference immediately I
got used to the heavy set-up so quickly that it didn't matter anymore by
the 2nd ride. Other than the slightly more sluggish acceleration the
heavy tires and tubes made no difference in my total riding times. The
upside is a nicer roll-out due to the flywheel effect.

In all fairness one must also consider the time spend fixing flats
because that adds to the trip time. Worse, goat head inflicted flats
generally happen in dry grass areas where there is no real shade for
miles so you get to fix the flat under the scorching sun in 105F
weather. Since switching to Gatorskins and thick tubes the number of
flats dropped to zero and my patch kits serves only other riders.

>> -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1
>> April, 1971
>
> +1. Never understood why people ride shitty tires just to avoid an
> occasional flat.
>

The reason is simple. Some people, when they say they'll be there at
2:00pm, they want to be there at 2:00pm and not sit on the side of the
road fixing another flat.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Joerg]

It also depends on the vegetation. When I rode in Europe just about any
tire was ok, not many flats. Out here in the Western US it is very
different because we have these:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Trte_003_lhp.jpg

The bike dealer where I bought the monster tubes for my road bike had a
little display box with goat's heads to show the "uninitiated" (in this
area that usually means Silicon Valley transplants).

The one thing I don't like about Gatorskins is their wimpy sidewalls.

[Andy K]

High pressure tires may make your bike go faster, but they are hell on your joints and rear.

Never used them, but they must sound like a gunshot when you get a flat. :-)
Are they repairable when they get a flat ?

Andy

[jbeattie]

And let's not underestimate the potential for a lion attack while stopped fixing a flat in the dry grass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahnfn1LIm7A I'd rather fix a flat in the scorching sun than in snow or freezing rain -- "flat fixing" meaning throwing in a tube. Actual patching is nearly impossible in the rain and snow.

I use Gatorskins on the commuter with ordinary tubes and rarely flat -- but then again, I rarely flat on Pro4s unless I go trail riding. You can find goat heads (tribulus terrestris, "puncture vine") in some areas around here, but it is much more common east of the Cascades and not anything that I worry about. My concerns are the usual -- mostly glass, nails of various types and rocks. Glass is a real problem during the winter when the water acts as a lubricant for glass.

Another problem with super-puncture resistant tires (e.g. hardcase tires) is that they generally have poor wet grip because they use hard compounds -- and have very heaving casings that aren't very supple, also reducing grip. A really good wet weather tire is not very good at resisting glass cuts. The Gatorskin is a pretty happy medium. I have used Pasellas with "tour guard" that get cut to shreds. I don't know why they are so popular, except that I like a little tread pattern during the fall and winter to get grip on wet leaves and other blow-down that becomes cemented to the road.

-- Jay Beattie.

[James]

I have had zero flat tyres, riding in and around Brisbane, from
vegetation. Three corner jack exists in other parts of the country though.

--
JS

[avag...@gmail.com]

I don't know why they are so popular...

riding leaned over may undermine the Pasela rubber band

[Joerg]

On 2015-07-29 12:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 10:55:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2015-07-28 12:44 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 1:02:54 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:

[...]

>>>> Michelin 50 were quite a long while ago. I was frustrated with
>>>> those wearing so fast that I bought a pair of Michelin ZigZag.
>>>> That was a self inflicted punishment, much like Joerg's setup,
>>>> and cured me of heavy dead feeling tires forever. The
>>>> occasional flat on snappy corner hugging tires is IMHO a better
>>>> choice than perpetual suffering with heavy tires. I sold that
>>>> bike the next spring to pay for a real race bike with tubs and
>>>> never looked back. YMMV.
>>>>
>>
>> A friend said the same, that he'd never want such heavy tires and
>> tubes. I never understood that. While I did feel the difference
>> immediately I got used to the heavy set-up so quickly that it
>> didn't matter anymore by the 2nd ride. Other than the slightly more
>> sluggish acceleration the heavy tires and tubes made no difference
>> in my total riding times. The upside is a nicer roll-out due to the
>> flywheel effect.
>>
>> In all fairness one must also consider the time spend fixing flats
>> because that adds to the trip time. Worse, goat head inflicted
>> flats generally happen in dry grass areas where there is no real
>> shade for miles so you get to fix the flat under the scorching sun
>> in 105F weather.
>
> And let's not underestimate the potential for a lion attack while
> stopped fixing a flat in the dry grass.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahnfn1LIm7A ...


Until one fine day the real McCoy shows up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4FbHzeCJjM

When they are hungry they don't go away this easily. We had one right
here in our cul-de-sac. It attacked a large dog who had to be euthanized
afterwards because of his injuries.


> ... I'd rather fix a flat in

> the scorching sun than in snow or freezing rain -- "flat fixing"
> meaning throwing in a tube. Actual patching is nearly impossible in
> the rain and snow.
>

Here you also get to slowly feel the inside of the tire for thorns,
interrupted by the occasional OUCH followed by some choice word, and
occasionally a drip of blood. Some people forego that and a few hundred
feet down the road ... phsssseeeeeooooouuu.

> I use Gatorskins on the commuter with ordinary tubes and rarely flat
> -- but then again, I rarely flat on Pro4s unless I go trail riding.
> You can find goat heads (tribulus terrestris, "puncture vine") in
> some areas around here, but it is much more common east of the
> Cascades and not anything that I worry about. My concerns are the
> usual -- mostly glass, nails of various types and rocks. Glass is a
> real problem during the winter when the water acts as a lubricant for
> glass.
>
> Another problem with super-puncture resistant tires (e.g. hardcase
> tires) is that they generally have poor wet grip because they use
> hard compounds -- and have very heaving casings that aren't very
> supple, also reducing grip. A really good wet weather tire is not
> very good at resisting glass cuts. The Gatorskin is a pretty happy
> medium. I have used Pasellas with "tour guard" that get cut to
> shreds. I don't know why they are so popular, except that I like a
> little tread pattern during the fall and winter to get grip on wet
> leaves and other blow-down that becomes cemented to the road.
>

I kind of cheat. When it's raining and it looks like it won't stop for a
while I take the MTB with its knobby tires. That way it also gets a free
bike wash and my wife won't complain about the dirt splotches in the
garage for a while.

[jbeattie]

Same thing with glass shards and tire cords.

>
>
> > I use Gatorskins on the commuter with ordinary tubes and rarely flat
> > -- but then again, I rarely flat on Pro4s unless I go trail riding.
> > You can find goat heads (tribulus terrestris, "puncture vine") in
> > some areas around here, but it is much more common east of the
> > Cascades and not anything that I worry about. My concerns are the
> > usual -- mostly glass, nails of various types and rocks. Glass is a
> > real problem during the winter when the water acts as a lubricant for
> > glass.
> >
> > Another problem with super-puncture resistant tires (e.g. hardcase
> > tires) is that they generally have poor wet grip because they use
> > hard compounds -- and have very heaving casings that aren't very
> > supple, also reducing grip. A really good wet weather tire is not
> > very good at resisting glass cuts. The Gatorskin is a pretty happy
> > medium. I have used Pasellas with "tour guard" that get cut to
> > shreds. I don't know why they are so popular, except that I like a
> > little tread pattern during the fall and winter to get grip on wet
> > leaves and other blow-down that becomes cemented to the road.
> >
>
> I kind of cheat. When it's raining and it looks like it won't stop for a
> while I take the MTB with its knobby tires. That way it also gets a free
> bike wash and my wife won't complain about the dirt splotches in the
> garage for a while.

Heavily lugged tires are scary in wet weather on smooth pavement. The side lugs squirm and have poor grip. I had a great wipe-out on a downhill turn that transitioned from trail to asphalt.

-- Jay Beattie.

[avag...@gmail.com]

Heavily lugged tires are scary in wet weather on smooth pavement. The side lugs squirm and have poor grip.

''''''''''''''''''

urtalkin Schwalbe there...

flat ? bugs ?

https://goo.gl/Xwhe1J

[Joerg]

I can ride them with 70psi if I wanted to.

> Never used them, but they must sound like a gunshot when you get a flat. :-)

As a kid I had a road bike tire blow out after hitting a pothole. It was
probably around 100psi and did sound like a gunshot. Resulted in a nasty
crash.

> Are they repairable when they get a flat ?
>

Sure, but I have yet to encounter a flat. They just don't happen anymore
after switching to Gatorskins with thick tubes. What concerns me are the
sidewalls. On the rear tire they already show some damage. A wee bit of
offroad use is almost unavoidable in this area and that's when they suffer.

[Roger Merriman]

jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 5:29:25 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

> >
> >

snips

> > >
> >
> > I kind of cheat. When it's raining and it looks like it won't stop for a
> > while I take the MTB with its knobby tires. That way it also gets a free
> > bike wash and my wife won't complain about the dirt splotches in the
> > garage for a while.
>
> Heavily lugged tires are scary in wet weather on smooth pavement. The side
>lugs squirm and have poor grip. I had a great wipe-out on a downhill
>turn that transitioned from trail to asphalt.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

Sounds like older type of MTB tyre? or just bad luck?

modern MTB tyres have well supported lugs and bar few exeptions soft
compounds etc.

I ride to work/into town etc on a older MTB shod with MudX and Racing
Ralphs, huge amounts of grip on wet roads, adimitly back in the day on
irc mud mad tyres they where lethal fantatstic in mud though!

Corners that on the roadie on a wet day you had to gingerly roll though,
become comftable places to anoy mopeds/roadies by pulling away.

Roger Merriman

[jbeattie]

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 2:31:54 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 5:29:25 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> snips
> > > >
> > >
> > > I kind of cheat. When it's raining and it looks like it won't stop for a
> > > while I take the MTB with its knobby tires. That way it also gets a free
> > > bike wash and my wife won't complain about the dirt splotches in the
> > > garage for a while.
> >
> > Heavily lugged tires are scary in wet weather on smooth pavement. The side
> >lugs squirm and have poor grip. I had a great wipe-out on a downhill
> >turn that transitioned from trail to asphalt.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Sounds like older type of MTB tyre? or just bad luck?

Definitely older type of MTB tire. I don't have any recent experience with riding MTB tires on wet road and certainly don't know what's on the market now. I don't particularly like my lugged CX tires on wet road either, except for snow and blow-down. I find that my best wet traction road tires are some soft compound 35MM tires I use during the dead of winter on my CX bike -- but if there is some really magical wet weather tire that is not too terribly draggy, let me know. I assume that it will rain here again one day.

-- Jay Beattie.

[avag...@gmail.com]

I assume that it will rain here again one day.

/////////////////////

A Strong pineapple express into BC on your radar.

I bought Conti Speedrides for sand skim over "pavement" and hard pack 2 tracks. Dead weight for racer dude but maybe works here in rain. I dunno if their front and back or front with back in Vapors or Mtn Kings.

The alleged problem with knobs vs slicks is a reduction in rubber coupled or not coupled with knobby end wiggle...

but this goes with conditions. Asking for continuous supply of GP precision when muddy wet leafing loose surface ? where's that ?

Sliding at speed is a much AAA as drifting at speed. You agree off course.

I thought the Speedrides might do that with the small bumps giving more rubber less wiggle. I'm not finding the tread on Conti's current site...so ...

The ride thru Sandy Ego is a trip on Toyo A/T. The yachtsmen fly. The dogbone's squiggle n van inches sideways...not sliding but dogboneing. But when I get to the long off camber right going out of town, the camber throws the bones way off like 20%, more understeer. But slicks do that too only faster, more
evenly.

I went looking for a Gatorskin with finely drawn swept back sipes not finding any only a hard center band with off side siping. Not enough speed ?

Anyway, whose asking for a premium high speed bicycle rain tire ?

The Toyo are a gas in rain...we just ride away over the horizon.

https://www.google.com/#q=premium+high+speed+bicycle+rain+tire

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/vredestein-fortezza-senso-xtreme-weather-road-tire?v=a700x25&adl=1&utm_campaign=products&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&gclid=CICduvuzhscCFUGRHwodPnQMsQ

The Vreds are a dog ?

[Roger Merriman]

The Racing Ralphs and simular at least in MTB format are quick and
grippy even on greasy town roundabouts and so on, I have them in CX form
but thus far it's been a dry summer!

bare in mind there is little differnce in weight between cheaper CX
tyres and MTB Racing Ralphs, these are quick race tyres for hardpack.

I never found any road race tyres to be grippy in the wet, in the dry
yes but not once it's damp.

Roger Merriman

[Sir Ridesalot]

When they first became available here I found tthe Michelin slicks (foldable Pro) tires to be amazingly grippy on wet roads. What convinced me was the time I took a corner at speed, slid sideways on a bunch of wet leaves and continued on my way when the tires rolled onto wet pavement again. I was astounded that I didn't go down.

Pete Penseyres remarked about the Avocet slicks that he rode on white fog line in the rain and uphill and could not, although he tried to, break the tire loose.

Cheers

[jbeattie]

You can easily do straight line tests of wet grip -- I have a particular place where I do that. The old carbon black tires do have good wet grip and so do the more modern silica tires like the ProGrips etc. There were Umma Gummas and some clay pigment tires that were truly scary on wet roads. Those are now a thing of the past.

Anyway, I had two major crashes on the same ride coming down Old LaHonda on wet pavement on Avocet tires. Notwithstanding Jobst's advertising photos, no tire is all that good on wet, off camber down-hill turns. I haven't tried Racing Ralphs -- do do you say "Racing Rafes" in U.K.? I might give those a whirl. Nonetheless, I don't push the downhills that hard when its raining.

-- Jay Beattie

[avag...@gmail.com]

TdF riders have rain tires on the wagon....compound, tread or both ?

Compound on a 4 wheeler is the deal...verrrry soft. Wears out n overheats during a few drier laps slide or not. The difference tween wet n dry is grip no grip....I watched a demo at a chicane ( where I had called the storm) the ry guys went thru and over the grass...the 9?? Porsche having pitted for wets STOPPED in 200' or less. from ?? 75mph.

the sipes ? sipes on sides adjacent a flat center rolling strip ? boy I dunno that transition leaned over in the rain is a SOB. Believe the sipes are for straight riders siphoning water from the copywriters spines

[retrog...@gmail.com]

I spoke prematurely when I said that the Pro 4 with a hole in the sidewall was trashed. I was able to install a boot, and it is holding air fine so far.

[Duane]

On 03/08/2015 1:08 PM, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
> I spoke prematurely when I said that the Pro 4 with a hole in the sidewall was trashed. I was able to install a boot, and it is holding air fine so far.
>

Hopefully you don't find that it didn't work so well 130km from home in
the dark with the rain coming down and no cell coverage. Being handy is
one thing but sometime you just need to replace what's broken.

[Joerg]

Especially if that boot causes a little friction at the tube every time
that part of the tire rolls over the road surface. Then it's just a
matter of time until ... *PSHOOOO*

I've always replaced tires with too much sidewall damage. Before
Murphy's law strikes.

[James]

Then you may well have wasted money.

--
JS

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://www.wsj.com/video/chile-tallest-and-emptiest-building/DC7B371A-2C21-4B71-8C17-F7DFDC98C01E.html

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 6:07:27 PM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.wsj.com/video/chile-tallest-and-emptiest-building/DC7B371A-2C21-4B71-8C17-F7DFDC98C01E.html

............

the video copy linK is getting to be a real PITA


http://www.wsj.com/video/dramatic-video-shows-plane-landing-during-violent-storm/E6DFA194-7AD3-45D3-8137-CEB0E01B1142.html?mod=trending_now_video_4

[Joerg]

On 2015-08-05 1:56 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
> James <james.e...@gmail.com> considered Wed, 05 Aug 2015 07:31:28

> Isn't that true of all preventative maintenance?


Not in my line of work. Aside from safety risks there is the monetary
loss caused by preventable equipment downtime.


> I'm sure I could often have got away with keeping the oil in my car
> for a bit longer than the specified interval, or any of the filters.
> But the potential expense is not worth the risk.


Exactly. In this case we must place a value on the ride, either the fun
we have or the errand where a vehicle failure would cost us hard money
in terms of lost time.

A couple of months ago I was on a ride with a friend who thought he'd
get away with some sidewall damage. Long story short, five miles into
the ride his front tire developed a full-blown "aneurysm". Game over,
the Sunday afternoon was now shot, no ride.

Even worse would be a blow-out followed by a nasty crash because fixing
imminent tire damage had been brushed aside as a "waste of money".

[...]

[mark cleary]

I got a set of Conti GP4000 II last year when they came out and what a tire.
I have 5000 miles on them and no flats or issues until just now I slight cut
in the rear sidewall but good for another 500 miles at least. I paid a huge
sum of $120 for both but worth the price. I just bought another set for $88
a pair, I consider that a true deal. I run them about 2000 miles then swap
the rear to the front ( despite Sheldon's wisdom) as long as the rear is
looking good, this I think give about 6000 mile life. Not bad considering my
Vredestein's Tri Comps were going 3600 for the same price. Those I thought
were the best but I can see the difference and the Conti's ride smooth.


Deacon mark cleary

"AMuzi" wrote in message news:mp7sm3$39q$1...@dont-email.me...

On 7/27/2015 6:31 PM, Duane wrote:
> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:

>>> differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost a whole year
>>> between flats in Melbourne.
>>

>> I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall damage than the
>> Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are ridiculously
>> expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my go-to commuting
>> tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at least the 28mm.
>>
>> The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal when you can get
>> them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There may be a better
>> price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.
>>
>> Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be miserable to ride
>> on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got five flats on one
>> ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.
>>
>

> Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?
>
>

No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow cross
section are just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to
differ much.

[jbeattie]

And what if the blow-out had occurred near an infestation of mountain lions!
Not that one shouldn't maintain his or her bike, but I've blown out tires and never crashed. I've also cut sidewalls and booted them with $1 bills -- which is good enough to get home or to the local bike shop. I've even finished long rides with a $1 boot in a small cut (and done long-term boots on very small cuts). Most problems are not that dire and do not result in death or destruction, although you do have to spend time by the side of the road/trail fixing things and might have to head home or to the local bike shop.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Joerg]

On 2015-08-05 3:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 2:11:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2015-08-05 1:56 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:

[...]

>>
>>> I'm sure I could often have got away with keeping the oil in my
>>> car for a bit longer than the specified interval, or any of the
>>> filters. But the potential expense is not worth the risk.
>>
>>
>> Exactly. In this case we must place a value on the ride, either the
>> fun we have or the errand where a vehicle failure would cost us
>> hard money in terms of lost time.
>>
>> A couple of months ago I was on a ride with a friend who thought
>> he'd get away with some sidewall damage. Long story short, five
>> miles into the ride his front tire developed a full-blown
>> "aneurysm". Game over, the Sunday afternoon was now shot, no ride.
>>
>> Even worse would be a blow-out followed by a nasty crash because
>> fixing imminent tire damage had been brushed aside as a "waste of
>> money".
>
> And what if the blow-out had occurred near an infestation of mountain
> lions!

Out here that can mean death. The most recent one was caught on Sunday
in Folsom:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article29844826.html


> ... Not that one shouldn't maintain his or her bike, but I've

> blown out tires and never crashed.

I've had one in a tunnel. Loud bang. After I came to the car driver
waiting at the traffic light at the other end said first I came rolling
out of the tunnel, then my school briefcase and at last my road bike
tumbled out. With the front end pretzeled.


> ... I've also cut sidewalls and booted

> them with $1 bills -- which is good enough to get home or to the
> local bike shop. I've even finished long rides with a $1 boot in a
> small cut (and done long-term boots on very small cuts). Most
> problems are not that dire and do not result in death or destruction,
> although you do have to spend time by the side of the road/trail
> fixing things and might have to head home or to the local bike shop.
>

Still, one would not ride on into gnarly turf sans roads or cell
coverage with a 1/2" bulge out of a sidewall, even after kludging it
somehow. Then the rider would have to at least pussy-foot the rest of
the ride and that's no fun on a mountain bike.

[Duane]

I've used the dollar bill trick - well actually 5 dollar since we don't
have paper dollars here - as well but just to get home. The tire gets
replaced right away. I'm not doing any fast descents on a patched
sidewall.


--
duane

[avag...@gmail.com]

Jay ....when you're stranded, is there someone to call for the sag wagon ?

The deacon's good ride pleases us Conti users but really deak...a worn front's gonna get you someday. see you in ER.

[James]

There are many things you can use to get you home. A piece of cardboard
milk carton or cardboard drink box is good. The wax or plastic layer
really helps hold the cardboard together. A plastic note is great if
you have one.

But it's also fairly easy to make a reliable repair at home that will
likely last until the tyre is worn out. You only need a piece of fabric
that is relatively thin and non stretch. You could stitch it in place
after gluing it with contact adhesive or probably even silicon. Smear a
bit more silicon on the outside to keep water from the fabric if you
like. You could even cover it on the inside with a large inner tube
patch, if you're worried about abrasion on the tube.

--
JS

[jbeattie]

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 5:37:36 PM UTC-7, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> Jay ....when you're stranded, is there someone to call for the sag wagon ?
>
> The deacon's good ride pleases us Conti users but really deak...a worn front's gonna get you someday. see you in ER.

I broke a crank south of Sauvie Island and rode home almost 15 miles using one leg -- and scootered part of the way because my leg got tired. I hated calling for help back then. These days, though, I'd probably call my wife.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Ralph Barone]

Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> James <james.e...@gmail.com> considered Wed, 05 Aug 2015 07:31:28
> +1000 the perfect time to write:
>
>> On 05/08/15 00:41, Joerg wrote:

>>> On 2015-08-03 10:14 AM, Duane wrote:
>>>> On 03/08/2015 1:08 PM, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> I spoke prematurely when I said that the Pro 4 with a hole in the
>>>>> sidewall was trashed. I was able to install a boot, and it is holding
>>>>> air fine so far.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully you don't find that it didn't work so well 130km from home in
>>>> the dark with the rain coming down and no cell coverage. Being handy is
>>>> one thing but sometime you just need to replace what's broken.
>>>
>>>
>>> Especially if that boot causes a little friction at the tube every time
>>> that part of the tire rolls over the road surface. Then it's just a
>>> matter of time until ... *PSHOOOO*
>>>

>>> I've always replaced tires with too much sidewall damage. Before
>>> Murphy's law strikes.
>>>
>>
>> Then you may well have wasted money.
>
> Isn't that true of all preventative maintenance?

> I'm sure I could often have got away with keeping the oil in my car
> for a bit longer than the specified interval, or any of the filters.
> But the potential expense is not worth the risk.

> I'm certainly not going to wit until my rims blow out before replacing
> them - they have wear markers, which are probably somewhat
> conservative, but I've never worn them away completely.

All insurance is a crapshoot.

[Frank Krygowski]

On our coast-to-coast ride, my daughter hit a rock in the highway in
remote North Dakota and suffered a blowout at about 25 mph. (It was an
amazing tailwind.) There was no crash; just a loud bang, and she
stopped the bike, packs and all.

The tire was in sad shape. The rip in the sidewall was over half an
inch long. I booted it with several layers of material and we limped
into the next town. Trouble was, her bike was a Terry with a small
diameter, non-standard front wheel.

I stitched the sidewall by hand and re-did the boot as well as I could,
and we rode nearly 200 miles with that patched tire to get to a bike
shop that had the replacement tire we needed.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/5/2015 8:39 PM, James wrote:
>
> There are many things you can use to get you home. A piece of cardboard
> milk carton or cardboard drink box is good. The wax or plastic layer
> really helps hold the cardboard together. A plastic note is great if
> you have one.
>
> But it's also fairly easy to make a reliable repair at home that will
> likely last until the tyre is worn out. You only need a piece of fabric
> that is relatively thin and non stretch. You could stitch it in place
> after gluing it with contact adhesive or probably even silicon. Smear a
> bit more silicon on the outside to keep water from the fabric if you
> like. You could even cover it on the inside with a large inner tube
> patch, if you're worried about abrasion on the tube.

I like Tyvek, which is a sort of non-woven plastic fabric. One cycling
event I rode long ago used 3" x 5" Tyvek for participant numbers, and I
saved mine to add to my patch kit. Since then, I've gotten a few more
pieces from shipping envelopes made of the stuff. It's very thin, very
tough, and waterproof.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

a long time ago on a very long ride my rear tire was pierced side to side by a heavy gauge wire that then rotated with the tire until it hit the seatstays. That resulted in a 4" long tear on each side of the tire. I walked to tthe next small town that had a grage, bought a car tire/tube repair kit and booted the inside of each side of the tires by using the long rolled rubber patch material from the repair kit. I rode that tire for many hundreds of miles before being able to buy a new tire. Btw, it was a 26" by 2.125" mtb tire. That was with a touring load on the bicycle too.

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://www.google.com/#q=bicycle+touring+tire+failure+stories

[Lou Holtman]

We always use the wrap of a granola bar someone is carrying. It is made of
non stretchable plastic. It is not as tough as Tyvek but always at hand.
The change is very small one hits that same spot. Replace tire at home of
course.
--
Lou

[Duane]

Canada has decided to move from paper notes to plastic. The plastic
ones work perfectly for this.

[Joe Riel]

Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> writes:

> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> considered Thu, 6 Aug 2015

> Practical example:
> http://s9.photobucket.com/user/phil_w_lee/library/Bicycle/Tyre%20boot
> As you can see, this was a major failure where the sidewall attaches
> to the bead - but I was able to boot it well enough to complete the
> day's ride (another 60 miles or so). A bit lumpy, and I was
> caustious, particularly on downhill stretches, but it got me home.
> I took the pictures to demonstrate the booting process after getting
> home, so that the method could be shown to less experienced riders.
> The boot was a cut open plastic tube which had contained toothpaste, I
> believe - it was found in the roadside litter. Since then I've always
> carried some suitable material for booting a tyre in my on-bike kit.
> If you're desperate, there are probably somes types of leaf or grass
> which would be strong enough.

Does anyone here bother to move the booted tire to the rear, if it
were a serious cut in a front tire? Doing so would be a bit of a
bother, but if it did let go, better on the rear wheel.

--
Joe Riel

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/6/2015 4:08 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> considered Thu, 6 Aug 2015

> Practical example:
> http://s9.photobucket.com/user/phil_w_lee/library/Bicycle/Tyre%20boot
> As you can see, this was a major failure where the sidewall attaches
> to the bead - but I was able to boot it well enough to complete the
> day's ride (another 60 miles or so). A bit lumpy, and I was
> caustious, particularly on downhill stretches, but it got me home.
> I took the pictures to demonstrate the booting process after getting
> home, so that the method could be shown to less experienced riders.
> The boot was a cut open plastic tube which had contained toothpaste, I
> believe - it was found in the roadside litter. Since then I've always
> carried some suitable material for booting a tyre in my on-bike kit.
> If you're desperate, there are probably somes types of leaf or grass
> which would be strong enough.

Another trick I've used, again on a long tour in a remote area with many
miles to go: After booting, I wrapped that section of inner tube with a
layer of duct tape, to help reduce tensile stress on the tire.

It was a bit tricky because I wanted the inflated tube to fill the tire
at the location of the boot. So I inflated the tube out of the tire
until it matched the tire size, so to speak; then I taped with duct
tape. I repeated this later with a Continental Top Touring tire that
wasn't cut, but whose sidewall seemed to be failing, showing bubbles.

I don't know this added precaution was really necessary, but I got no
blowouts.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Ralph Barone]

Yeah, but it will cost you at least $5.

[Duane]

Five dollars Canadian.

But I get it back when I change the tire.
--
duane

[avag...@gmail.com]

Booted tires are fronts carrying less load pressure...assume you are now in boot not go mode


There are commercial boots but an rubber tube oblong with ears on the long side
works. The oblong is sized for your wheels then positioned with ears toward the rim od

On a trip across ND, an unlikely journey, carrying a spare tire is probably appro

[Andre Jute]

It only costs me a fiver to take a taxi home when I get a flat. That's less hassle than pointlessly hauling a pump and a repair kit for years when they aren't needed just because "cyclists have always done it".

Andre Jute

[Duane]

Where I mostly ride, it could cost me 30 bucks for a taxi and I'd have
to wait an hour an hour or more. And then my ride would be over. I
carry a spare tube, a couple CO2 charges and a small frame pump.
Generally takes me 10-15 minutes to swap out a tube and I'm back on the
road.