V-brake binding.

[Ian Field]

If I unhook the cable, the levers move completely freely. With the cable on,
I can push the levers over to one side or the other and they'll stick with
the block rubbing on the rim.

Its not a sticking cable - there's no inner/outer differential movement from
just tilting the levers over.

Thanks for any help.

[John B.]

Usually a vee/cantilever brake arm mounting post/stud has three holes
in it that the end of the spring fits in for a rough adjustment of
tension of the return spring. See http://tinyurl.com/haetcl6
Sort of soft, medium, hard.

Once the brake arms are mounted on the post/stud there is an
adjustment screw to fine tune things, see:
http://tinyurl.com/jovo7nd
Or, http://www.diamondback.com/v-brake-adjustment
--
cheers,

John B.

[Tosspot]

Remove the blocks and check again. If it still sticks, remove the lever
and fix the problem, likely crud/corrosion on the bush (ooeeerrr
Missus!). If it doesn't stick, check the pad for a ridge on the lower
edge (or indeed upper, but usually lower), if present, realign the pad
or replace.

If neither of these just make sure the cable is nice and clean and not
kinky around the noodle.

If none of the above;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities

Pick one...

[AMuzi]

Open the brake and look at the pad surfaces. A misplaced pad
will develop a lip which can catch on the bottom edge of the
rim. The lip may be removed with a blade, reposition pad,
lubricate the fastener.

At the other end, check to ensure the pad is not dragging on
the tire where it overhangs the top of the rim. If so, oil
fastener and reposition the pad. Inspect tire casing for damage.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Ian Field]

"Tosspot" <frank...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Zs2dnTHo5s5FZWXL...@giganews.com...

> On 27/03/16 22:05, Ian Field wrote:
>> If I unhook the cable, the levers move completely freely. With the cable
>> on, I can push the levers over to one side or the other and they'll
>> stick with the block rubbing on the rim.
>>
>> Its not a sticking cable - there's no inner/outer differential movement
>> from just tilting the levers over.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
> Remove the blocks and check again. If it still sticks, remove the lever
> and fix the problem, likely crud/corrosion on the bush (ooeeerrr Missus!).
> If it doesn't stick, check the pad for a ridge on the lower edge (or
> indeed upper, but usually lower), if present, realign the pad or replace.
>
> If neither of these just make sure the cable is nice and clean and not
> kinky around the noodle.

Already eliminated the cable.

The pivots are completely free - until I hook the cable back on.

[Tosspot]

If not the pads, then the only other time I've seen similar symptoms is
with the noodle liner, but it doesn't sound like that as you've checked.
My money on the pads. Just had that exact symptom yesterday on some
old cantis.

[Ian Field]

"Tosspot" <frank...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:DbWdnb1yS-aBF2TL...@giganews.com...

Could be a lip - when I push the free lever against the rim, the wheel
flexes a little, so a lip might not grab so much.

[avag...@gmail.com]

back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help?p=blog/repair-help/p2&p=blog/repair-help/&area[]=48

[Ian Field]

<avag...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:18bc4198-e4b0-42ee...@googlegroups.com...

> back screws out
>
> pull cable with small vise grips
>
> use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim
>
> rim needs be centered n true.
>
> fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance screws. Any
adjustment seems to take a while to have effect, then I have to trim back
the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the cable as I can get
away with. With more travel before the blocks bite - the more excercise the
pivots get.

[AMuzi]

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

[Sir Ridesalot]

If the V-brake calipers move freely when disconnected from the cable but bind when the cable is attached doesn't that indicate cable drag somewhere? I'd check the noodle for kinks, worn entrance and exit holes and also check the noodle liner. I've fixed many sticking V-brakes where the sticking was caused by either a deforemd noodle or a damaged/worn noodle liner.

That lip on a brake shoe(s) will usually cause the brake to stick if the brake sow is pushed hard against the tire and rim by hand unless one is only pushing one brake shoe ata time instead of both.

Cheers

[John B.]

The length of the cable housing also effects the centering, especially
on the front wheel. Usually this can be overcome with the tension
screws but it is worth noting.
--
cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 5:42:24 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

take the rig apart

wipe cable clean so the grooves are clean

hang vertically n lube with Wax with Teflon 'dry lube' {doah spray it willy nilly drip it down the wire.

soak housing in thinner..plug one end drip in...lay flat one end tilted up.

run isopropyl down housing n let dry. repeat 3x

run Finish Line down vertical plugged housing. rotate housing holding ends with fingers. we do this to WIPEOUT

reassemble.

use vice grip to remove slack when tighten cable with clean screws loded with blue Loctite.

be sure the grips are operative with the cable n nit hung up....grips are wily.

throw the system away n install mechanical discs



take grips off soak in thinner, brush clean, blow out with air then blow out with a silicone spray. Let dry

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:ndmppr$kbf$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:
>>
>>
>> <avag...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:18bc4198-e4b0-42ee...@googlegroups.com...
>>> back screws out
>>>
>>> pull cable with small vise grips
>>>
>>> use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim
>>>
>>> rim needs be centered n true.
>>>
>>> fool with screws for balance.
>>
>> It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
>> screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
>> then I have to trim back the other way.
>>
>> The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
>> cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
>> blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.
>
> Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple lubrication.
> Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both ends and inside noodle ( a
> quick no-tools job).

Its a PTFE lined cable - AFAIK: you're not supposed to oil them.

The cable is slick as snot - until its hooked onto the levers.

[Ian Field]

"Phil W Lee" <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote in message
news:3tvtfbdiem92a6clu...@4ax.com...
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> considered Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:42:21 -0500

> In the past, I've had good results from stripping both brake arms from
> the studs and removing all possible parts, cleaning thoroughly,
> lubricating all moving parts and reassembling.

Bin there.......done that.

The front pivot posts are welded on, so I took some back ones off a scrap
frame. Pivot post in the electric drill and make sure it spins completely
freely in the caliper arm.

The front posts were keyed with emery paper to make sure they hang on to at
least *SOME* grease.

The pivots are free, the cable is free - until they're hooked together.

[Ian Field]

<avag...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd99f819-1f0f-4eb8...@googlegroups.com...

I have a screw-piston cable oiler - the instructions with the PTFE lined
cable said *NOT* to oil it.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <slocom...@gmail.xyz> wrote in message
news:r09ufb1vffvl2hd21...@4ax.com...

The balance screwa seem to have a delayed action effect - I have to over
adjust to stop rubbing one side, then a day or two later its rubbing the
other side.

For convenience; I've fitted socket cap screws that I can just lean over the
handlebars and adjust. The hex-key has a plastic handle, so only one end
pokes holes in my pocket.

[avag...@gmail.com]

who told said that BS ?

CLEAN IT OUT n LUBE IT.

FIELD has a https://goo.gl/mSkfw4

use after cleaning n lubricating not OILING

aaaieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 5:42:24 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

He says his brakes pivot freely until he hooks up the cable. He states he has coated cables.

Therefore the problem is in the cable, the housing or the brake blocks catching under the rim or tire. He further states that everything is smooth until he hooks it up to the calipers. That seems to indicate that the problem lies in the noodle either the noodle itself is damaged or the liner in the noodle is damaged thereby exerting drag..

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

GNAW THAW DUDE THAW

cable exerts correct pressure

problem is in the resistance

[John B.]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:24:11 +0100, "Ian Field"

I have experienced the same thing and I find that adjusting the
tension screws and then squeezing the brake handle a few times seems
to even things out and make the adjustment longer lasting. Another
trick is adjust the brakes for more rim clearance. My "knock around"
bike has enough brake pad clearance so that the brake lever tips are
about 1/4" - 3/8" from the handle bars squeezing what feels like to me
heavy pressure.

> For convenience; I've fitted socket cap screws that I can just lean over the
>handlebars and adjust. The hex-key has a plastic handle, so only one end
>pokes holes in my pocket.

I do find that while there seems to be several adjustments before you
reach a sort of "Thank God, I'm finished" stage but usually not more
than a couple of rides.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:siu1gb9hcck96nnna...@4ax.com...

That's exactly what I did.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem. You cannot use oil but much use grease.

[AMuzi]

> I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem. You cannot use oil but much use grease.
>

A small quibble.
V brakes do not move on the frame/fork stud. The motion is
all internal, between the sleeve and the arm with a spring
situated in between. The whole design ethos began as a
unitized thing with slight assembly labor (drop in place,
tighten bolt).

Most all cantilever brakes do pivot between brake and frame
stud. Those are easily disassembled for clean/lube, V brakes
are not.

Unitized pre-assembly is a compelling feature for V on an
S&S coupler bike, where the RH brake arm with the cable on
it stays with the cable and lever. Remove and re-install
brake arm with no special skills or tools, and without
changing the brake adjustment at all. It's not so friendly
for lubrication as most V models have no simple access to
that internal pivot assembly.

[Ian Field]

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bd38639-df32-4cda...@googlegroups.com...

Do try to pay attention at the back.

Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried keying the posts with
emery paper so they could hold at least *SOME* grease.

[AMuzi]

>> I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes
>> are mounted on the studs without any lubrication and that
>> is the problem.

> Do try to pay attention at the back.
>
> Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried
> keying the posts with emery paper so they could hold at
> least *SOME* grease.

(sigh) anyone who took the trouble to undo the bolt and slip
a linear V brake arm off its frame/fork stud and then
actually looked at the thing knows that the brake mechanism
does not move on the stud.

Cantilevers do, linear V brakes do not.

[Ian Field]

"Phil W Lee" <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote in message

news:msuagb5ohfi5p8n0i...@4ax.com...
> "Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> considered Wed, 6 Apr

> But that joint isn't meant to move except for disassembly.
> The movement is supposed to happen between the inner bush of the brake
> arm and the arm itself.
> Some models will allow you to pull that bush and lubricate the outside
> of it, some don't.

There is no bush in the one's I'm having trouble with.

The arms are cast alloy and look as if they're powder coated - that coating
appears to also be inside the hole for the post.

Something else I also mentioned in a previous post; I took a removable rear
post off a scrap frame and run it in the levers with an electric drill.

There doesn't seem to be any standardisation, so I'm reluctant to try
replacing them with salvaged levers - but I didn't notice any bushes as I
put them into the spares box.

[Tosspot]

Your levers are mounted on studs? Do levers have bush mountings these
days? I'd have thought the leverage would make this trivial.

[Ian Field]

"Tosspot" <Frank...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:VfSdnZpxUIzHJJvK...@giganews.com...

The coating on the levers in question could also be a no friction product.

The salvage levers that got added to the spares box may or may not have
bushes - I didn't think to look as I chucked them in there.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

l

> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Perhaps you can tell me how you can rotate a V-brake on the stud without it moving? The V-brakes I've used and the Cantilevers mounted in exactly the same manner. The degrees of rotation are the same for the same distance of the shoes from the rims. True that the V-brakes usually mount much closer so that they can have higher leverage but the lack of lube on the stud can still cause them to move poorly.

The hand levers seizing up would be obvious. As would the cables. You would usually use the return spring hole appropriate for sufficient return pressure. Where else would you suppose that friction would occur that could cause the problem described?

[Ian Field]

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:467d1767-705d-4eeb...@googlegroups.com...

Some people have suggested the "noodle" - which I assume means the steel
tube elbow that routes the cable on the last bit to the lever arms.

Last time I checked that, the plastic liner sleeve was still intact.

The problem is stiff levers, even if I push them sideways without any action
on the cable - they'll stay pushed over with one block rubbing.

Its a while since I stripped, cleaned and greased the pivots, but they still
move completely freely with the cable unhooked.

[AMuzi]

Tom, you need to remove a V brake arm and look at the back side.

The spring mount is keyed to the small hole next to the
stud. That mount also incorporates the inner sleeve of the
mechanism. It doesn't turn on the brake stud. The spring is
situated between that inner liner and the arm (or a sleeve
fixed in the arm, depends on how cheap a design you have but
they are effectively the same for these purposes).

That's why they are hard to lubricate. The moving bits are
deep inside and modern versions are nicely fabricated to
keep saltwater in and your oil applicator out.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>

[Frank Krygowski]

Sounds like it needs a grease nipple. Or at least a port for one of those
"Grease Guard" pinpoint grease guns.

Those things always seemed so logical to me, but they didn't catch on.

If I were the OP, I'd consider some careful drilling, to add my own grease port.
But I'm not the OP. Among other things, I have the grease gun, which I'm sure
he doesn't.

- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

I have a headache.

no drill hole for grease. drill spits steel into the clearance

[Tosspot]

That's the badger. Sometimes they get manked up and it isn't obvious.
You can oik them out for a look.

[Ian Field]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:032c36bb-f815-4602...@googlegroups.com...

Those levers seem to be fragile enough already!

I'd left the rear cable unhooked since the last wheel with run-out. The
blocks hit the frame and stopped the levers from flopping out - one of the
blocks snapped allowing its lever to flop out.

When I started catching my heel on it, I decided to put the cable back and
noticed the levers were way out of balance - looking to see what head the
screw had so I could get the right tool - I found the screw was gone, along
with a chunk of the cast lever.

[AMuzi]

That entire host of troubles could be mitigated with a new
linear V brake. They are dirt cheap, about double the cost
of brake shoes alone, and hey they come with the new shoes!

Extra bonus= they come with directions, a virtual Rosetta
Stone of multiple languages, and even pictures.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message

news:ne92v0$amp$1...@dont-email.me...

Searching with that string gets a load of results that don't distinguish
between centre pull and side pull variants.

[AMuzi]

try this for example [1]
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bicycle+v-brake

Notice that the Shimano brand[2] first-listed item is twice
the price[3] of brake shoes 2d item.

[1] Your friendly neighborhood bicycle store may be slightly
more expensive but you could pop over there right now,
before the weekend.
[2] Shimano's not absolute crap. Others are cheaper and also
less expensive.
[3] told you so.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>

[Frank Krygowski]

I wonder if there's a library in your town.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

linear pull brakes aka V-brakes are NOT ceter pull brakes they're technically sidepull brakes.

If the brake calipers are pivoting freely without the cable attached and having both sides of the calipers (left one and right one) squeezed against the rim at the same time; and also release without hanging up on the rim or tire then the problem has to be somewhere in the cable housing. If the inner cable moves freely in the cable housing then the ONLY logical place for the binding is the noole or the liner of the noodle. Unless of course it's the brake lever that's binding and not the caliper(s).

Cheers

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message

news:ne956n$iqd$1...@dont-email.me...

Already got that - any more suggestions?

[Ian Field]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ne96m6$o1n$1...@dont-email.me...

It was closed down because of Tory austerity - but I'm sure I saw lights on
there recently.

[AMuzi]

They are a generic item now.

Here's a web image[1] of a not-Shimano product:
https://media.performancebike.com/images/performance/products/1500/50-8533-BLK-TOP.JPG

Print that image and hand it to the nice lady at your local
bicycle store. She'll have a couple of styles for you
ranging from dirt cheap to cheap.

[1] First result of search term 'bicycle v brake' images.


--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message

news:nebivi$81t$1...@dont-email.me...

Does this eventually reach an end result?

[AMuzi]

Perhaps I misunderstood.
From earlier posts I gathered that your V brake is broken.
A replacement is readily available at a very low cost.

Some repairs are reasonable. Worn brake shoes can be
replaced as with damaged or kinked noodle or cable. The
steel link for your noodle is easily reformed when
bent/twisted after a handlebar goes full circle. Even a
stripped cable anchor can be drilled through and replaced
with a bolt and nut.

Damaged or corroded internal pivots, spring tensioner, back
peg etc are not reasonably repaired but fortunately a
complete new brake is neither hard to find nor dear.

Maybe I missed something.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message

news:nebn07$oob$1...@dont-email.me...

Like possibly at least one post where I mentioned that I have a box of
salvage parts.

[Frank Krygowski]

IIRC, people here have posted links to things like the Park Tools
website, which has copious repair information with plenty of photos.
There's also Sheldon Brown's website, with at least as much information.
If you're lucky, you may also be able to find a library or a book
store - perhaps a used book store - where you can open a book defining
basic bicycle terms.

I think you need to spend time reading those sources, to at least get a
bit better at basic terminology. As it is, it's very difficult to help you.
--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Andrew, I just went out and opened a new box of Shimano Cantis and sure enough they have sealed bearings locking to the posts.

Since the concussion I seem to have memories missing about the oddest things. I was married for six years and can't remember one day of it. But since my ex has moved back in with me she reminds me of it every day. Well, at least from her viewpoint.

[Ian Field]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:necfgb$500$1...@dont-email.me...

The damage I mentioned; was the balance screw had caught on something and
taken a chunk of the cast lever with it - which of those sources has a
tutorial on alloy welding and building up broken castings?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

How about we take it logically:

One component that is so easily overlooked: the levers themselves. I would suggest removing the levers from the mounts and looking at the axle holes. I would think that you will find these holes oblong from wear over time.

The second component is the cables. Look for two things - are these good quality cables. Stainless inners and teflon lined outers. If they are normal old-fashioned steel inners and outers with the inners covered with a non-stick material it is easy for rust on the inners to cause this sort of problem.

As for the V-brakes. Since Andrew urked me into looking at one of the sets of Canti's I have here I have to agree with him that the brakes themselves are only likely to show friction either none of the time or all of the time with lever pressure having no effect.

Now there is the case of the brake surfaces on the rims being so worn that there is a ridge there and closing new shoes on it would cause the shoes to lock under the ridge. But that seems rather too obvious to be the case here.

Could there be other non-likely problems? How about the levers not having the proper inner diameter for the bars so that when you pull them the entire lever rotates and puts an odd angle on the cable. VERY unlikely.

How about the outer not having a cable end on it so that hard pressure on it causes the cable to be compressed and pull into the hole also compressing the inner cable causing a lock-up. Does this seem like the most likely?

And this can happen at either end. Though most V-brakes are constructed so that the 90 degree tube on the brake end of the cable will not fit properly with the old fashion cable ends on them and the cables have to be cut and filed perfectly square.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Gazooks man! It's more effort and expense to try to weld those that it'd be to just buy another pair.
Sometimes there's a very good reason why a bicycle or parts from a bicycle get tossed into the skip/bin.

Cheers

[Frank Krygowski]

I can't imagine a person in a westernized country trying to weld an
ordinary brake arm that could be bought for about $10. So that wasn't
the point.

You've repeatedly had difficulty understanding standard terminology of
bike parts. You ask questions using names you've invented for parts.
You've failed to understand answers because you don't know the
definitions of words that were used.

If you want to communicate, you need to learn the language! If you look
through a decent book or two, and/or spend some time on websites that
explain these things, you can save lots of time for yourself and for the
rest of us. You'll probably also find that more people are willing to
try to help you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Ian Field]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:nee837$bm2$1...@dont-email.me...

They say; "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" - but its nowhere near as low
as those who don't get it....................................

[Ian Field]

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a101758c-909f-49db...@googlegroups.com...

I fitted the front with top quality teflon coated cable - the inner was
black like a teflon coated pan, I didn't bother shining a light up the end
of the outer.

[Frank Krygowski]

But did you get the point? You really need to learn the vocabulary, or
become familiar with sources for definitions of common bicycle terms.
When you don't know the words, it's too hard to help you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

Did you remove the Teflon coating from the cable where it gets fastened to the V-brake caliper?

Did you lube the inner cable? You DON'T need to lube Teflon cables nd doing so can cause them to gum up.

Also, the coating of a Teflon coating inner cable can be damaged and bind inside the outer cable housing. However you said that when the cable is not attached to the V-brake the cable and the V-brakes move freely. Therefore the problem has to be at the V-brake end and the most likely places are the brake blocks catching the rim or tire. Press BOTH V-brake arms/brake blocks tightly against the rim at the SAME time. Do they still release freely? If yes then the problem is almost certainly in the noodle or the fittings at the ends of the noodle. There could be a small groove or split at the noodle end that's hidden by the ferrule and that can cause the cable to drag/jam and cause the problem of the V-brake not returning to its original position.

There's also a chance that your lined cable is too thick for the noodle because the noodle has a narrow diameter Teflon lik liner too.

Cheers

[John B.]

I assume that you are joking but if not then: (1) success in welding
aluminum castings is very dependent on the alloy used. If commercially
pure aluminum then no problems but if a more exotic alloy then it may
prove impossible to make a good bond. When I was in the A.F. the
policy was not to weld aluminum castings used on aircraft.

(2) While it is possible to arc weld many aluminum alloys the usual
practice is an AC welder with a high frequency capability using argon
shielding gas, or perhaps argon-Helium for more penetration :-)

But, Vee-brakes being so cheap that the better policy might well be to
scrap the old parts :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:33:41 +0100, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
wrote:

>"Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> considered Sun, 10 Apr

>1. It's a brake.
>2. It's therefore safety critical.
>3. Chuck it and replace it.
>
>If you have spare parts around already, that's great - but make sure
>they work properly - used V-brake arms (just like other components)
>left unused in a box for an extended period will deteriorate by drying
>out of lubrication and corrosion.
>If the movement isn't completely free when installed, see steps one to
>three, as it will be impossible to balance them (as you've
>discovered).
>
>Some things I'll economise on, but brakes aren't one of them.
>If you can't get it working properly, replace it - and put the
>aluminium brake arms in the recycling, to avoid future temptation.
>As has already been stated, new ones aren't expensive, even if you
>avoid the very cheapest ones made of pressed cheese.
>
>Of course, most bicycles are stripped down to such a level of
>efficiency that there aren't many components that aren't safety
>critical in one way or another. It's easy to see if something isn't
>right in most parts. so a brake with a chunk missing from the arm? No
>question, it's junk. And a set that can't be balanced, while they may
>be safe, will drag and slow you down.

Gee... the world has sure changed. As a young lad I remember riding
bike that had no brakes at all. To stop you poked your toe (wearing
shoes of course) between the front tire and the fork.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

I've volunteered for bike rodeos, and had bikes show up with "brakes"
like that. We discourage that technique pretty heavily.

I don't know if the world has really changed that much. If you had
shown your "brake" to a cop or other responsible adult back when you
were a kid, I doubt they would have said "Oh, that's just fine."

--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:38:57 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> Did you lube the inner cable? You DON'T need to lube Teflon cables nd doing so can cause them to gum up.
>
> Also, the coating of a Teflon coating inner cable can be damaged and bind inside the outer cable housing. However you said that when the cable is not attached to the V-brake the cable and the V-brakes move freely. Therefore the problem has to be at the V-brake end and the most likely places are the brake blocks catching the rim or tire. Press BOTH V-brake arms/brake blocks tightly against the rim at the SAME time. Do they still release freely? If yes then the problem is almost certainly in the noodle or the fittings at the ends of the noodle. There could be a small groove or split at the noodle end that's hidden by the ferrule and that can cause the cable to drag/jam and cause the problem of the V-brake not returning to its original position.
>
> There's also a chance that your lined cable is too thick for the noodle because the noodle has a narrow diameter Teflon lik liner too.

I think you'll find that he is talking about using Jagwire cables. While they are not particularly good neither are they particularly bad and can work without problems even with lubrication which would require years to "gum up".

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:v21ngbd375b7l64r2...@4ax.com...

The ability to get sarcasm might be lower wit than sarcasm itself - but what
about those who still don't get it even after I explain it was
sarcasm..........................................

[John B.]

I don't remember that "cops" took any notice of us. At least I can't
remember any instance where we were berated by the police for riding a
bicycle.

But then, as I remember there wasn't any of this modern attitude that
one should be protected from oneself. Back in the "old days" if an
individual did something stupid and hurt themselves people used to
say, "well, he should have known better". Not, "Oh! Oh! They ought to
do something about that."
--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:23:04 +0100, "Ian Field"

Well, you came here and asked a question and were given a number of
reasons why you were having said problem. To date, as far as I can
tell, you have been unable to correct your problem. Which, given the
minimal complexities of bicycle brakes seems to indicate that you are
(1) nearly helpless, or (2) pretty stupid individual.

And, that isn't sarcasm, i.e., "witty language used to convey insults
or scorn". It is a statement of fact.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Ian Field]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:negfir$5b6$1...@dont-email.me...

Once I got away with telling a cop that a bald motorcycle tyre was a "racing
slick" - but I think they're all wise to that one now.

I also figured out a way to fool the permanent fixture breathalyser
machine - but its been a *LONG* time since I went to visit, so they probably
use a different model now.

Last time I was there, I scored 6 out of 35 after 4 pints of strong ale.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:oqdogb54038i73irv...@4ax.com...

Frequently - I figure problems out myself before I get anything approaching
a sensible answer here.

The brake is indeed a simple mechanism - if it was more complex I'd have
more places to look.

Just once - it would be nice if someone suggested something I hadn't already
checked.

[Joy Beeson]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:15:33 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Gee... the world has sure changed. As a young lad I remember riding
> bike that had no brakes at all. To stop you poked your toe (wearing
> shoes of course) between the front tire and the fork.

My father grew up on brakeless fixed-gear bikes. As a young lad, he
tried out a friend's new bike, came to a hill (I wish I could ask him
where he found a hill; I own a piece of his father's farm, and it's
flatter than the palm of your hand around there.)

He started down a hill, slowed his pedalling, but instead of slowing,
the bike broke free of the pedals with a terrifying series of clicks.
By good luck, in his panic he tried to pedal backward, and the bike
had coaster brakes.

I think it was after he retired that he told that story, and he was
still feeling the emotion.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[John B.]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 19:10:32 +0100, "Ian Field"

There is two problems there. (1) did you list every check that you
made and the exactness of the check, (2) did you know enough about the
system to make a quality check?

After all two levers and a bit of cable do not comprise a complex
system.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Checklist for troubleshooting V-brake binding.

#1 Is a brake block catching on or under the tire/rim? Disconnect cable from brake and squeeze BOTH brake levers at the same time. Look to see if a brake block catches.

#2. Do the brake caliper arms move freely when the cable is not attached?

#3. Does the cable move freely in the housing when not attached to the caliper arm?

#4. Does the brake lever move freely?

#5. Does the cable move freely through the noodle?

Remove all ferrules from cable housing and noodle and check for squareness of the ends, hooks on the cable housing ends and grooves in the housing ends and on the noodle. Also check for kinks or bent sections. Check that the cable and housing are not too long.

If none of that works then consider buying new V-brakes.

Cheers

[John B.]

Ha! You mention but do not emphasize, one item that I've found is
fairly common - the routing of the cable housing. Depending on the
radius of the bend and the distance from the cable stop to the brake
arm it is possible to apply sufficient side pressure to a V-brake to
overcome the small screw tension springs.

Subsequent to my "discovery" of the above I also discovered that
Sheldon had mentioned this several years ago :-)

--

Cheers,

John B.

[Ian Field]

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:14801b8b-5138-4b22...@googlegroups.com...

The cable inner is PTFE coated - not lined, I didn't bother shining a
flashlight up the end of the outer.

I described all this about a week ago!

If the cable was frozen solid, I should still be able to rock the caliper
levers together side to side.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:becsgb1ori3gvd75l...@4ax.com...

I think you'd struggle with elementary level reading comprehension!

I've explained several times that the lever pivots are practically
frictionless - until I hook the cable on.

Even if the cable was frozen solid - it shouldn't add any friction to
rocking both caliper levers together side to side.

[Tosspot]

On 13/04/16 19:25, Ian Field wrote:

<snip>

> I think you'd struggle with elementary level reading comprehension!
>
> I've explained several times that the lever pivots are practically
> frictionless - until I hook the cable on.

Well that's easy then. Don't hook the cable on...

[Sir Ridesalot]

Ian posts a problem then has a hisy fit when people try to help him.

I outlined the steps to take to troubleshoot V-brake binding but it seems that he doesn't want to follow them thereby eliminating things thaat can be causing the binding.

The problem could be in the V-brake pivot but Ian sdays they swing freely if the cable is disconnected.

The problem could be in the cable or the cable housing but again Ian says it moves freely.

The problem could be in the brake levers but I'm assuming they move freely.

Therefore the problem has to be in the ferrules somewhere or too long a cable.

Unless one spring is mounted in a different hole than the other one is. That is, some posts have a choice of 3 holes that the end of the spring can go into. If one spring is in the center hole and the other is in the upper or lower hole, that could throw off the tension.

Andrew and I have mentioned the possibility of a lip on the bottom of the brake pad dragging on the rim or tire. The BEST wat to check for that is to push BOTH V vrake arms against the rim at the same time and see if one is grabbing under the rim.

If there is a groove in a ferrule or a hook on the end of the cable housing, that will often ause EXACTLY the problem Ian is experiencing. The only way to check that is to remove the ferrules and examine the housing and the noodle. Or the housing could be too long and thus be pushing against the arm with the noodle on it.

V brakes aren't rocket science and the problem should have been found long ago.

Cheers

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I think that we're in agreement that it is probable that the problem is with the outer cable ends not having end ferrules on them. It is just too obvious for there to be ridges on the brake pads or rim brake area.

[Ian Field]

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bf581ce-c2b2-42ac...@googlegroups.com...

I think if I welded the cable solid - it shouldn't add any friction to
rocking both caliper levers side to side together.

[Ian Field]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:04e3eab3-22d0-4be7...@googlegroups.com...

> On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 2:15:16 PM UTC-4, Tosspot wrote:
>> On 13/04/16 19:25, Ian Field wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > I think you'd struggle with elementary level reading comprehension!
>> >
>> > I've explained several times that the lever pivots are practically
>> > frictionless - until I hook the cable on.
>>
>> Well that's easy then. Don't hook the cable on...
>
> Ian posts a problem then has a hisy fit when people try to help him.

IOW: I don't suffer fools gladly.

Certain fuckwits keep parroting out things I've already stated I'd checked -
they have no more idea than I have, but think spouting a load of crap makes
them look clever.

[Sir Ridesalot]

I just happen to have over 40 years experience repairing bicycles. I work in a bicycle co-op and sho many people how to set up ahnd adjust V-brakes. i also show many people how to trouble shoot problems so that later they can do it themselves if they're not near a shop, co-op or computer.

You seem determined not to want to follow the logical steps in determining what the problem is with your brakes. your V brake trouble is probably due to a very simple cause.

BTW, if your inner cable was seized/welded to the out er cable housing then your V-brakes would NOT BE ABLE to move unless you disconnected the cable.

Cheerio

[John B.]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 18:25:02 +0100, "Ian Field"

From your posts I can only assume that there is something wrong with
the brake system that you, for whatever reason, are unable to repair.

I can only suggest that you throw the entire thing away, levers,
cables and brakes and all. Then take your bicycle to the Local Bicycle
Shop and have an entirely new system installed as obviously you are
unable to repair it by yourself.

In fact, considering the complexity of the V-brake system I suggest
that you forego any further attempts to repair your own bicycle and
just schedule a timely "routine service" visit to your LBS on a
frequent basis.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

If you do not "suffer fools gladly" why haven't you admitted that you
are unable to repair your own brakes and taken your bike to the local
bike shop for repairs?
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Tosspot]

Where would be the fun in that? If all goes to plan he'll wind up
welding them.

[Ian Field]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:448db106-a7ee-41a9...@googlegroups.com...

Well then I guess your brain must be completely absent.

The caliper levers would still be able to move together side to side.

You'd also be able to pinch them together by hand so the exposed inner
bowed.

You very capably demonstrate the kind of fuckwittery I'm on about.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:c5otgbt7t75e7d5e7...@4ax.com...

Apparently your reading comprehension hasn't improved much above elementary
level since yesterday.

[Ian Field]

"Tosspot" <Frank...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uIidnUkVsJOqupLK...@giganews.com...

I'd only weld it to demonstrate what would happen - I already know what
would happen, and there's little point demonstrating anything to the
brain-dead.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:5mntgbh4484pcgbq2...@4ax.com...

The repairs I've made so far; exceed by a colossal margin, any useful and/or
sensible contribution I've got here.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:5mntgbh4484pcgbq2...@4ax.com...

Too many shops are just like you - swap out the entire system because they
can't figure out which bit is faulty, and present the customer with a long
list bill of materials.

I don't do it that way with electronic servicing, and I don't do it that way
with bicycle servicing.

[John B.]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:16:51 +0100, "Ian Field"

Perhaps not. But I could fix my brakes yesterday and likely can still
do it today. I may not comprehend your writing but I can fix my own
brakes.... which would seem to put me one up on you.

--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:22:20 +0100, "Ian Field"

"The repairs I've made".... but so far the brakes seem to be still
dragging.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:35:15 +0100, "Ian Field"

Well, since so far you don't seem to have your brakes fixed what is
the next step? Maybe buy a new bicycle, with working brakes, or just
give up the whole bicycle idea?

>I don't do it that way with electronic servicing, and I don't do it that way
>with bicycle servicing.

--

Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

That does seem to be the relevant criterion, doesn't it?

On one long solo tour, I did have my right front cantilever get draggy.
I disassembled it and fixed the problem in roughly half an hour, using
only a tiny tool kit.

Brakes seldom require rocket science.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

>
> Well then I guess your brain must be completely absent.
>
> The caliper levers would still be able to move together side to side.
>
> You'd also be able to pinch them together by hand so the exposed inner
> bowed.
>
> You very capably demonstrate the kind of fuckwittery I'm on about.

And who's the one that can't troubleshoot and FIX a simple V-brake problem?

What you've done is a workaround NOT a repair. YOur brakes do NOT work as designed.

TWIT!

Cheers

[AMuzi]

In fairness, OP's linear V brake is most probably not
repairable in any practical sense. At least one arm pivot/
sleeve/ spring assembly/ spring adjuster is broken, as OP
noted, but he seems to show willful disbelief on that point.

Aside from obvious damage (OP said adjuster screw is broken
off) many designs use a flimsy nylon or diecast collar for
the spring lower mount and once cracked no amount of ditzing
around will result in success. Even allowing that without an
adjuster screw one might bend the springs or adjust balance
from the other side, damage to that spring mount or collar
will give random positions so centering wanders annoyingly
(as described by OP).

OP prefers not to replace the very available and dirt cheap
brake unit, and that's his choice, but it's going to drag
sometimes.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 8:04:19 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> In fairness, OP's linear V brake is most probably not
> repairable in any practical sense. At least one arm pivot/
> sleeve/ spring assembly/ spring adjuster is broken, as OP
> noted, but he seems to show willful disbelief on that point.
>
> Aside from obvious damage (OP said adjuster screw is broken
> off) many designs use a flimsy nylon or diecast collar for
> the spring lower mount and once cracked no amount of ditzing
> around will result in success. Even allowing that without an
> adjuster screw one might bend the springs or adjust balance
> from the other side, damage to that spring mount or collar
> will give random positions so centering wanders annoyingly
> (as described by OP).
>
> OP prefers not to replace the very available and dirt cheap
> brake unit, and that's his choice, but it's going to drag
> sometimes.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Had the OP followed either of our advice at the beginning, he would NOT have broken the caliper where the screw/bolt adjuster was.

What I can't comprehend is why people post asking for advice if they have no intention of following it.

Cheers

[Ian Field]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:00b7b200-3fc0-41f4...@googlegroups.com...

I can't actually remember any time I've got a useful reply on this group -
not before I figured it out myself anyway.

Unfortunately its the minority of fuckwits that make the whole group look
stupid - but they're the one's that stick their oar in and try to look
clever.

[Ian Field]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:nepf9t$f4u$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/14/2016 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:16:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
>> <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Apparently your reading comprehension hasn't improved much above
>>> elementary
>>> level since yesterday.
>>
>> Perhaps not. But I could fix my brakes yesterday and likely can still
>> do it today. I may not comprehend your writing but I can fix my own
>> brakes.... which would seem to put me one up on you.
>
> That does seem to be the relevant criterion, doesn't it?

I asked a question and no one has come up with the right answer - what does
that say?

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message

news:neql5m$plj$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/14/2016 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/14/2016 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:16:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
>>> <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently your reading comprehension hasn't improved
>>>> much above elementary
>>>> level since yesterday.
>>>
>>> Perhaps not. But I could fix my brakes yesterday and
>>> likely can still
>>> do it today. I may not comprehend your writing but I can
>>> fix my own
>>> brakes.... which would seem to put me one up on you.
>>
>> That does seem to be the relevant criterion, doesn't it?
>>
>> On one long solo tour, I did have my right front cantilever
>> get draggy. I disassembled it and fixed the problem in
>> roughly half an hour, using only a tiny tool kit.
>>
>> Brakes seldom require rocket science.
>>
>
> In fairness, OP's linear V brake is most probably not repairable in any
> practical sense. At least one arm pivot/ sleeve/

Its a *VERY* budget bike I got on Freecycle - it hadn't been well looked
after when I got it.

A good idea of its condition; both tyres were through to the canvas.

AFAICR: the levers don't have anything like sleeves or bushes. They look
powder-coated, and that seems to extend into the pivot holes.

When it stops pissing with rain - I'll look in the spares box for what else
I have.

[Ian Field]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:6703aced-5415-4f4a...@googlegroups.com...

Clearly your reading comprehension is no better than that of JB.

The broken caliper lever is on the rear, which had been unhooked because of
a wheel with run-out. I never got around to hooking it back on, and the
screw head must've caught on something.

Your fuckwittery never ceases to amaze me!

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:i1c0hbhh3o89kc54i...@4ax.com...

Well since your obviously the cleverest person on the planet - you can tell
me what's causing it........................oh right!

[Ian Field]

"Phil W Lee" <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote in message
news:ed20hbtlq8420olvv...@4ax.com...
> "Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> considered Wed, 13 Apr

> 2016 18:19:30 +0100 the perfect time to write:
>
>>
>>
>><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>news:14801b8b-5138-4b22...@googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:38:57 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>>> Did you lube the inner cable? You DON'T need to lube Teflon cables nd
>>>> doing so can cause them to gum up.
>>>>
>>>> Also, the coating of a Teflon coating inner cable can be damaged and
>>>> bind
>>>> inside the outer cable housing. However you said that when the cable is
>>>> not attached to the V-brake the cable and the V-brakes move freely.
>>>> Therefore the problem has to be at the V-brake end and the most likely
>>>> places are the brake blocks catching the rim or tire. Press BOTH
>>>> V-brake
>>>> arms/brake blocks tightly against the rim at the SAME time. Do they
>>>> still
>>>> release freely? If yes then the problem is almost certainly in the
>>>> noodle
>>>> or the fittings at the ends of the noodle. There could be a small
>>>> groove
>>>> or split at the noodle end that's hidden by the ferrule and that can
>>>> cause the cable to drag/jam and cause the problem of the V-brake not
>>>> returning to its original position.
>>>>
>>>> There's also a chance that your lined cable is too thick for the noodle
>>>> because the noodle has a narrow diameter Teflon lik liner too.
>>>
>>> I think you'll find that he is talking about using Jagwire cables. While
>>> they are not particularly good neither are they particularly bad and can
>>> work without problems even with lubrication which would require years to
>>> "gum up".
>>
>>The cable inner is PTFE coated - not lined, I didn't bother shining a
>>flashlight up the end of the outer.
>>
>>I described all this about a week ago!
>>
>>If the cable was frozen solid, I should still be able to rock the caliper

>>levers together side to side.
>

> And having rocked them together from side to side (or together and
> apart, either by hand or by applying and releasing the brake), they
> should return to the point where the spring tension is equalised once
> you remove your hand (or whatever else you use to move them). If
> that point is not one which keeps the pads off the rim, adjustment is
> required until it is. If they are badly off centre, it could be a
> gross error in that the springs may be in different holes, if more
> than one hole is available.

There are 3 holes and both are set for maximum tension.

I'm thinking that could be counter-intuitive. Having to carry a tool in my
pocket for anytime balance adjustments suggests stiction.

When it stops pissing with rain - its about time to service them after
winter anyway. One option is search the spares box for levers with
bushes/sleeves, and/or I could try a lower spring setting.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:p3c0hb10mal9tp2fi...@4ax.com...

Plan B is; ignore any 'advice' from you.