Gluele4ss tire patches

[John B.]

Has anyone had success with the glue less tire patches? The ones where
you just sandpaper the tube and stick the patch on without any tire
cement.

I seem to remember sitting on the side of the road some years ago,
with the rain pouring down and the damned patches wouldn't stick at
all... But that may very well have been the environment :-)

I'm not particularly concerned whether the patched inner tube will
still be holding air 1 year from now I am mainly concerned with
getting home that day. If the patch was air tight for, oh say 4 hours,
I'd be satisfied.

I have also read that some makes of these patches are better than
others but the only sort I have seen here are made by "SuperB" whoever
they might be.
--
cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

As with any rubber patching system, the abrasive is intended
to clean the surface, not to add surface area. Whether emery
or a steel 'cheese grater', wrap the tube across the back of
one hand, injury up, scuff lightly and blow off any
detritus. Apply clean patch firmly without contaminating
either surface with your fingers. To get a good idea of the
scope of the problem, try wiping a small area of an inner
tube with a volatile solvent such as lacquer thinner (or
actual tire buff fluid) and a clean cloth. The big smear of
black crud on your cloth is the stuff which keeps a patch
from proper adhesion.

All that aside, lower pressure fat tire riders seem more
satisfied with peel-n-stick than road riders. This may be
due to tire pressure or the larger tube section, I don't know.

A medical alcohol prep packet is a handy addition to a patch
kit.

Many riders just bring along a spare tube and do their
repairs later in a more conducive environment than by the
side of the road, in the rain.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[David Scheidt]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
:>

:As with any rubber patching system, the abrasive is intended

:to clean the surface, not to add surface area. Whether emery

That's not what the patching training I've been to taught me. (for
automotive and industrial tires, notbike) As I
recall, abraiding a tire to #2 texture doubles the surface area
avaliable for the glue to cross link with.

:A medical alcohol prep packet is a handy addition to a patch
:kit.

So is a cotton ball. Fluff it out, and drag it aroundthe inside of
the tire . It'll snag on the tiniest piece of wire sticking through.

:Many riders just bring along a spare tube and do their

:repairs later in a more conducive environment than by the
:side of the road, in the rain.

Certaainly my prefered method. I have a giant bottle of vulcanizing
fluid and a box of patches, and take my time. I used to collect a
couple tubes, but I get so few flats these days I don't bother.


--
sig 68

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/20/2016 6:33 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> Has anyone had success with the glue less tire patches? The ones where
> you just sandpaper the tube and stick the patch on without any tire
> cement.

In about 2009 we were on a European trip with our Bikes Friday. I got a
flat in the rear and found to my dismay that I'd somehow forgotten my
usual patch kit. All I had was a glueless stick-on patch. I wasn't
very hopeful, but I used it.

It held until this year, when I finally got another separate flat in
that same tire. (The bike hasn't gotten much mileage in recent years.)
I think the glueless patch would still be holding if I hadn't had the
tube out to fix the new flat. The glueless patch peeled part way off
when the empty tube flexed at that location.

That may sound like an endorsement, but normal patches don't peel off if
you need to later patch a second hole. Based on that, I'd continue
using glueless patches only if there were no other choice.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Joerg]

On 2016-10-20 06:07, David Scheidt wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> :>
>
> :As with any rubber patching system, the abrasive is intended
> :to clean the surface, not to add surface area. Whether emery
>
> That's not what the patching training I've been to taught me. (for
> automotive and industrial tires, notbike) As I
> recall, abraiding a tire to #2 texture doubles the surface area
> avaliable for the glue to cross link with.
>
> :A medical alcohol prep packet is a handy addition to a patch
> :kit.
>
> So is a cotton ball. Fluff it out, and drag it aroundthe inside of
> the tire . It'll snag on the tiniest piece of wire sticking through.
>
> :Many riders just bring along a spare tube and do their
> :repairs later in a more conducive environment than by the
> :side of the road, in the rain.
>
> Certaainly my prefered method. I have a giant bottle of vulcanizing

> fluid ...


Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.


> ... and a box of patches, and take my time. I used to collect a

> couple tubes, but I get so few flats these days I don't bother.
>

Ever since switching to very thick tubes on my bikes flats are something
I no longer have to worry about. It is nice to be able to time an
arrival almost to the minute even after a 40mi ride, not needing to
factor in potential downtime for fixing a flat.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[David Scheidt]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
:On 2016-10-20 06:07, David Scheidt wrote:
:>
:> Certaainly my prefered method. I have a giant bottle of vulcanizing

:> fluid ...


:Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
:problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
:vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.

I screw the lid on, and store upright. It's not a tube.
It's a steel jar, with a screw on lid (with a brush
attached to it.) like this:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/XTS0/14004/N0182.oap

the bottle in my office desk drawer is about four years old, and still
good.


--
sig 113

[Joerg]

Amazing. Maybe it's the high temps out here that dry things out. We do
not use A/C so in the summer my office can get to 95F. Which is fine for
me but the computer sometimes complains if it has to do heavy math a lot.

I wonder if it got better if I'd transfer in some CO2 from beer brewing
(comes out of the airlock).

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:33:29 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:

>Has anyone had success with the glue less tire patches? The ones where
>you just sandpaper the tube and stick the patch on without any tire
>cement.

Sure, but you forgot one stop. See flame vulcanization:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ennV0BVFZVw>

(Notice how he leaves the gallon can of mineral spirits open while
setting fire to the patch).


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

SHIT....SEZ HARDENS FOR USE IN 2 DAYS


https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/tubes

patches at bottom

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

00000000000000000000


SWTF ? sez mix with egg batter cover cook at 450 ?

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/tubes

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
>problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
>vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.

I have the same problem with the small tubes of rubber cement that I
keep in the car. Even the ones that have never been opened are dried
out after a few months baking in the car. The best solution I've
found so far is to seal them inside a vacuum seal bag.
<https://www.uline.com/BL_5563/Vacuum-Bags>
I built my own sealer using an Edwards vacuum pump and a syringe.
Harbor Freight is cheaper:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html>
<http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html>
I have two tubes of rubber cement currently in the car that I'm
testing. My guess(tm) is about 9 months so far. I'll open it up
after 1 year. I suspect that the Zip-Loc type bags will also work but
probably not as well. I haven't bothered to find a Zip-Loc bag that's
the correct size for the tube.

I also tried using a pressurized outer container. The idea was to
raise the pressure outside of the tube to something higher than the
vapor pressure. In theory, that should have reduced evaporation.
However, the solvent managed to diffuse through the cap seal, and the
pre-opened tube was dry in about 3 months.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

WTF ? SEZ Skin lubricant Do not use internally


https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/tubes

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 12:37:37 PM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> WTF ? SEZ Skin lubricant Do not use internally
>
>
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/tubes

http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/image/GenuinePartsCompany/NWMDC?$Product=GenuinePartsCompany/255880

https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1218&bih=612&q=NAPA+tire+vulcanizing+compound&oq=NAPA+tire+vulcanizing+compound&gs_l=img.12...2652.14071.0.16911.30.11.0.19.19.0.263.1429.1j8j1.10.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.10.1420...0j0i8i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i24k1.TDgHAyNXlH0#tbm=isch&q=NAPA++heavy+duty+vulcanizing+cement

bought a small can yesterday $17 last glue shot at getting the Montrail’s soles back on without a shoemaker. Mon using that NB water soluble glue ?

new NAPA number is 165-1685

there is an MSDS

contents know to State of California to caws microchephaly

[Doug Landau]

> Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
> problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
> vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.

Coat the tube with glue the first time you open it.

[Joerg]

On 2016-10-20 09:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
>> problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
>> vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.
>
> I have the same problem with the small tubes of rubber cement that I
> keep in the car. Even the ones that have never been opened are dried
> out after a few months baking in the car. The best solution I've
> found so far is to seal them inside a vacuum seal bag.
> <https://www.uline.com/BL_5563/Vacuum-Bags>
> I built my own sealer using an Edwards vacuum pump and a syringe.
> Harbor Freight is cheaper:
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html>

For $100 I can buy a lot of new little cement tubes or even whole patch
kits.


> <http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html>


$20 is better but still too much for this one purpose. Plus clogs up the
garage more.

A few days ago I ordered a 5-ton electric/hydraulic log splitter. They
have it on a coupon-sale for $230 right now. To my utter amazement this
huge 110lbs monster still ships for a $7 flat fee, less than I'd pay for
gas to drive to the store for pickup.

> I have two tubes of rubber cement currently in the car that I'm
> testing. My guess(tm) is about 9 months so far. I'll open it up
> after 1 year. I suspect that the Zip-Loc type bags will also work but
> probably not as well. I haven't bothered to find a Zip-Loc bag that's
> the correct size for the tube.
>
> I also tried using a pressurized outer container. The idea was to
> raise the pressure outside of the tube to something higher than the
> vapor pressure. In theory, that should have reduced evaporation.
> However, the solvent managed to diffuse through the cap seal, and the
> pre-opened tube was dry in about 3 months.
>

Not sure if a CO2 atmosphere would prevent it from hardening. If so, I
could use the byproduct of the beer brewing I started a few months ago.
CO2 is coming out of the airlocks so there should be no chance of
backfeeding any nasty smells.

[Joerg]

Ah, great idea!

[David Scheidt]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
:On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>

:wrote:

:>Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
:>problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
:>vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.

:I have the same problem with the small tubes of rubber cement that I
:keep in the car. Even the ones that have never been opened are dried
:out after a few months baking in the car. The best solution I've

Note that vulcanizing fluid will vulcanize itself. Exposing it to
heat is a good way to make that happen. Cars get hot. This can
happen even when there's solvent in the tube.


--
What's the rule on that?

[Doug Landau]

> > Coat the tube with glue the first time you open it.
> >
>
> Ah, great idea!

I must confess i just thunk it up i dunno if it actually works

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

UH ON ALL OTHER TUBES including 3M Rubber Adhesive n the various liquid electrical tapes, a patch of grocery bag film over the tube threads, cap loosely, squeeze out air n tighten cap.

this works here in Florida.

The method does not work for small rubber cement tubes.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

'its a pack of Listerine Breath Freshener strips'

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/components/tubes

[Doug Landau]

> UH ON ALL OTHER TUBES including 3M Rubber Adhesive n the various liquid electrical tapes, a patch of grocery bag film over the tube threads, cap loosely, squeeze out air n tighten cap.
>
> this works here in Florida.
>
> The method does not work for small rubber cement tubes.

The problem is tiny cracks opening up in the tube where it flexes

[Doug Landau]

Where was that pic taken?

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

an electric log splitter ?

Weenieville


goo.gl/nFjuDB

who delivers the logs ? Weyerhaeuser ?

[Joerg]

On 2016-10-20 15:35, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 1:27:26 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2016-10-20 09:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

[...]

>>
>>> I have two tubes of rubber cement currently in the car that I'm
>>> testing. My guess(tm) is about 9 months so far. I'll open it up
>>> after 1 year. I suspect that the Zip-Loc type bags will also work but
>>> probably not as well. I haven't bothered to find a Zip-Loc bag that's
>>> the correct size for the tube.
>>>
>>> I also tried using a pressurized outer container. The idea was to
>>> raise the pressure outside of the tube to something higher than the
>>> vapor pressure. In theory, that should have reduced evaporation.
>>> However, the solvent managed to diffuse through the cap seal, and the
>>> pre-opened tube was dry in about 3 months.
>>>
>>
>> Not sure if a CO2 atmosphere would prevent it from hardening. If so, I
>> could use the byproduct of the beer brewing I started a few months ago.
>> CO2 is coming out of the airlocks so there should be no chance of
>> backfeeding any nasty smells.
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Joerg
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> an electric log splitter ?
>
> Weenieville
>
>
> goo.gl/nFjuDB
>
> who delivers the logs ? Weyerhaeuser ?
>

Have you ever split four cords by hand?

[Doug Landau]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=glue%20sole%20back%20on%20shoe

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

10, Weeenie

[John B.]

Yes, I carry a spare tube and sometimes two. But there are those days
when that isn't enough :-( The "sitting the rain" episode was exactly
that. Three flats with Gaterskin tires and two spare tubes.

The wiping with alcohol is a good idea and I will try it the next flat
I have.
--
cheers,

John B.

[David Scheidt]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

yeah, and I used to be faster than your splitter is.

--
sig 58

[John B.]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2016-10-20 06:07, David Scheidt wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> :>
>>
>> :As with any rubber patching system, the abrasive is intended
>> :to clean the surface, not to add surface area. Whether emery
>>
>> That's not what the patching training I've been to taught me. (for
>> automotive and industrial tires, notbike) As I
>> recall, abraiding a tire to #2 texture doubles the surface area
>> avaliable for the glue to cross link with.
>>
>> :A medical alcohol prep packet is a handy addition to a patch
>> :kit.
>>
>> So is a cotton ball. Fluff it out, and drag it aroundthe inside of
>> the tire . It'll snag on the tiniest piece of wire sticking through.
>>
>> :Many riders just bring along a spare tube and do their
>> :repairs later in a more conducive environment than by the
>> :side of the road, in the rain.
>>
>> Certaainly my prefered method. I have a giant bottle of vulcanizing
>> fluid ...
>
>
>Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
>problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
>vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.

What I do is buy those small tubes of "glue", I don't remember the
cost but they are cheap and if I open one I just throw it away and
replace it with a sealed tube when I get home.

--
cheers,

John B.

[Doug Landau]

That prevents finding a tube that you've used before to be empty. It does nothing for the situation in which you find a tube that you haven't yet used to be empty.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

My experience with the glueless patches is they work. Usually. I have used them in an emergency. Run out or forgot spare tubes. Or spare tube had short valve stem and rim was extra deep. My glueless patches always come off and leak after about one week. They are not permanent like regular patches and glue. Carry some and use if you have no other choices. I use Park brand glueless patches.

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 5:33:33 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> Has anyone had success with the glue less tire patches? The ones where
> you just sandpaper the tube and stick the patch on without any tire
> cement.
>
> I seem to remember sitting on the side of the road some years ago,
> with the rain pouring down and the damned patches wouldn't stick at
> all... But that may very well have been the environment :-)
>
> I'm not particularly concerned whether the patched inner tube will
> still be holding air 1 year from now I am mainly concerned with
> getting home that day. If the patch was air tight for, oh say 4 hours,
> I'd be satisfied.
>
> I have also read that some makes of these patches are better than
> others but the only sort I have seen here are made by "SuperB" whoever
> they might be.

> --
> cheers,
>
> John B.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

Arizona, Nevada, Utah, S. CAL...looks like a race trail out near the Gila River..

[John B.]

You can usually knead a new sealed tube and feel whether there is
anything in it :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:18:27 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>My experience with the glueless patches is they work. Usually. I have used them in an emergency. Run out or forgot spare tubes. Or spare tube had short valve stem and rim was extra deep. My glueless patches always come off and leak after about one week. They are not permanent like regular patches and glue. Carry some and use if you have no other choices. I use Park brand glueless patches.
>

That is basically what I was interested in. If the patch held air for
two or three hours I would be home where I can make a more permanent
repair.
I've read somewhere that the Park Tools patches were preferable but so
far I have never seen them for sale here.

>
>On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 5:33:33 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> Has anyone had success with the glue less tire patches? The ones where
>> you just sandpaper the tube and stick the patch on without any tire
>> cement.
>>
>> I seem to remember sitting on the side of the road some years ago,
>> with the rain pouring down and the damned patches wouldn't stick at
>> all... But that may very well have been the environment :-)
>>
>> I'm not particularly concerned whether the patched inner tube will
>> still be holding air 1 year from now I am mainly concerned with
>> getting home that day. If the patch was air tight for, oh say 4 hours,
>> I'd be satisfied.
>>
>> I have also read that some makes of these patches are better than
>> others but the only sort I have seen here are made by "SuperB" whoever
>> they might be.
>> --
>> cheers,
>>
>> John B.

--
cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

or foot?
http://www.unitkd.com/photo8.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 11:35:29 PM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> Arizona, Nevada, Utah, S. CAL...looks like a race trail out near the Gila River..

https://www.google.com/#q=pie+town+bicycle+

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

or foot?


for the Bimmer...

goo.gl/xaJV5a

aiiiieeeeee


https://www.google.com/#q=log+splitters&tbm=shop

reminds of the photo of Roosevelt n Muir atop Yosemite

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Fall_of_Nelson.jpg

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

DIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjNgdGshxI

[Joerg]

Well, you may all be supermen but I know for sure that my lower back
will go out if I did that. The wood around here can barely be split with
an ax, you have to use the splitting wedge and a sledge hammer. I've
done a cord here and there with that but it sure is no fun.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

situps n crunches......bend over n twist stretching ex

what kinda wood yawl getting ?

or what's left ?

wood is split in spar time over 365 days then split into kindling as a hobby.

5 12"x2x4'x8' is no big deal: hard n soft maple beech birch aspen hickory

today is a beautiful day on the Gulf in SWFLa with a sea coldness over the usual sun blast prob coming from the Portland blow

lets see ..

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/basicwx/day0-7loop.html

find the snow shovel

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

no ax....splitting maul as in the images post

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:27:30 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2016-10-20 09:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
>>> problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
>>> vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.
>>

>> I have the same problem with the small tubes of rubber cement that I
>> keep in the car. Even the ones that have never been opened are dried
>> out after a few months baking in the car. The best solution I've
>> found so far is to seal them inside a vacuum seal bag.
>> <https://www.uline.com/BL_5563/Vacuum-Bags>
>> I built my own sealer using an Edwards vacuum pump and a syringe.
>> Harbor Freight is cheaper:
>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html>
>
>For $100 I can buy a lot of new little cement tubes or even whole patch
>kits.

Don't ask what I paid for the Edwards E2M2 vacuum pump.
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=edwards+e2m2>
It was needed for a long forgotten project, but has found other uses
around the shop and house.

>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html>
>
>$20 is better but still too much for this one purpose. Plus clogs up the
>garage more.

Well, you could probably do it with a large plastic syringe and a
vacuum valve.
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/150ml-Large-Nutrient-Measuring-Plastic-Syringe-Handy-Sterile-Tubing-Tube-/111932309941>
The idea is prevent air from getting into the squeeze tube and to
prevent evaporated solvent from going anywhere.

>A few days ago I ordered a 5-ton electric/hydraulic log splitter. They
>have it on a coupon-sale for $230 right now. To my utter amazement this
>huge 110lbs monster still ships for a $7 flat fee, less than I'd pay for
>gas to drive to the store for pickup.

One of my neighbors had one of those. It broke some welds after
splitting about 2 cords of oak, madrone, and fir. My main complaint
was that it was too slow.

It was replaced when 5 neighbors got together and bought a used
Northern Tool 30 ton hydraulic splitter.
<http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200628783_200628783>
I wanted one that ran vertically so we could split the logs nearer the
ground. We got it really cheap because the former owner used
something disgusting for hydraulic fluid and blew all the seals. $130
in parts and we got it going over a weekend. I'm not sure how many
cords it has split so far, but my guess is about 10 cords in 5 years.
Biggest headache is keeping air in the tires.

>Not sure if a CO2 atmosphere would prevent it from hardening. If so, I
>could use the byproduct of the beer brewing I started a few months ago.
>CO2 is coming out of the airlocks so there should be no chance of
>backfeeding any nasty smells.

Well, if CO2 can be made to work, maybe just submerging the tube of
rubber cement in bottle of beer would be sufficient.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Doug Landau]

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 9:27:30 AM UTC-7, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> situps n crunches......bend over n twist stretching ex

How old you now, Gene?

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 4:54:28 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:18:27 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >My experience with the glueless patches is they work. Usually. I have used them in an emergency. Run out or forgot spare tubes. Or spare tube had short valve stem and rim was extra deep. My glueless patches always come off and leak after about one week. They are not permanent like regular patches and glue. Carry some and use if you have no other choices. I use Park brand glueless patches.
> >
>
> That is basically what I was interested in. If the patch held air for
> two or three hours I would be home where I can make a more permanent
> repair.
> I've read somewhere that the Park Tools patches were preferable but so
> far I have never seen them for sale here.
>

My experience is the glueless patches stayed on and held air for about a week. Then came unglued. Its not real glue that bonds permanently with the tube and patch. Its just sticky tape glue that holds until it dries out. Not permanent. I only use them if I have no other choice. No spare tube. Or spare tube will not work due to stem length. Kind of like if I carried a real patch kit in the saddle bag. I would still use a spare tube than patch the tube on the side of the road.

I cannot say if Park is good, bad or average. I think it is the only brand of glueless patches sold by local bike stores and maybe Nashbar. So I don't have any choice of which glueless patches to use. I don't know how many different companies make glueless patches. Probably a few make them. But I would guess they all work about the same. They will usually get you home. And you can ride them for a few days before the patch comes unstuck. Then do a permanent patch job.

[Joerg]

On 2016-10-21 10:36, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:27:30 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-10-20 09:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting. How do you keep that from drying up? That is always my
>>>> problem. Just a few months after helping another rider fix a flat my
>>>> vulcanizing tube contents gum up, especially during summer.
>>>
>>> I have the same problem with the small tubes of rubber cement that I
>>> keep in the car. Even the ones that have never been opened are dried
>>> out after a few months baking in the car. The best solution I've
>>> found so far is to seal them inside a vacuum seal bag.
>>> <https://www.uline.com/BL_5563/Vacuum-Bags>
>>> I built my own sealer using an Edwards vacuum pump and a syringe.
>>> Harbor Freight is cheaper:
>>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html>
>>
>> For $100 I can buy a lot of new little cement tubes or even whole patch
>> kits.
>
> Don't ask what I paid for the Edwards E2M2 vacuum pump.
> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=edwards+e2m2>
> It was needed for a long forgotten project, but has found other uses
> around the shop and house.
>

Edwards stuff always costs and arm and a leg.

>>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html>
>>
>> $20 is better but still too much for this one purpose. Plus clogs up the
>> garage more.
>
> Well, you could probably do it with a large plastic syringe and a
> vacuum valve.
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/150ml-Large-Nutrient-Measuring-Plastic-Syringe-Handy-Sterile-Tubing-Tube-/111932309941>
> The idea is prevent air from getting into the squeeze tube and to
> prevent evaporated solvent from going anywhere.
>

I ratehr buy some new cement tubes :-)

>> A few days ago I ordered a 5-ton electric/hydraulic log splitter. They
>> have it on a coupon-sale for $230 right now. To my utter amazement this
>> huge 110lbs monster still ships for a $7 flat fee, less than I'd pay for
>> gas to drive to the store for pickup.
>
> One of my neighbors had one of those. It broke some welds after
> splitting about 2 cords of oak, madrone, and fir. My main complaint
> was that it was too slow.
>

I hope it won't do that but my mountain biking buddy has welding gear.

> It was replaced when 5 neighbors got together and bought a used
> Northern Tool 30 ton hydraulic splitter.
> <http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200628783_200628783>
> I wanted one that ran vertically so we could split the logs nearer the
> ground. We got it really cheap because the former owner used
> something disgusting for hydraulic fluid and blew all the seals. $130
> in parts and we got it going over a weekend. I'm not sure how many
> cords it has split so far, but my guess is about 10 cords in 5 years.
> Biggest headache is keeping air in the tires.
>

I once borrowed "Betsy" from friend of ours:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/splitter.JPG

Completely homebrew, built on the front axle of a 1939 DeSoto. Old US
Army motor from 1942, rope start. Started every time but you have to
stand aside because the "exhaust" consist of some water pipes and a lot
of rusty chunks spew out with gusto. The cylinder is an old Caterpillar
version from an industrial boneyard. Betsy would squeeze through everything.

When they gave up their home tehy wamnted to give us Betsy but she's
just too big and no way to properly store such a monster.

This is our usual firewood stash:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/firewood07.JPG

>> Not sure if a CO2 atmosphere would prevent it from hardening. If so, I
>> could use the byproduct of the beer brewing I started a few months ago.
>> CO2 is coming out of the airlocks so there should be no chance of
>> backfeeding any nasty smells.
>
> Well, if CO2 can be made to work, maybe just submerging the tube of
> rubber cement in bottle of beer would be sufficient.
>

Beer is for drinking, not for storing patch kit cement :-)

The CO2 from the fermenter just hisses off into the air if I don't need
it for anything. Just finished bottling the Cream Ale, then brewed a
Blonde Ale and put in into fermentation.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:09:29 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>Edwards stuff always costs and arm and a leg.

Yep. Typically about $1,200 for a rebuilt pump. They're also
overkill for sucking air out of plastic bag, which is why I mentioned
Harbor Freight.

>I ratehr buy some new cement tubes :-)

Me too, if I could be sure they have rubber cement inside. The
problem is throwing a bunch of tubes into my car, and finding all of
them empty after a few months. Unless you want to replace the rubber
cement tubes with new tubes ever few months, I don't think a cyclic
approach is going to work. I'm trying to determine exactly what's
causing the solvent to evaporate, and deal with that problem directly.
Incidentally, metal cans are much better than the little tubes, but
can still dry out if I slop some cement around the seal. I found a
substantial improvement when I cut a Teflon disk replacement for the
metal cap seal. However, I haven't bothered to see if the seal is
reliable.

>> One of my neighbors had one of those. It broke some welds after
>> splitting about 2 cords of oak, madrone, and fir. My main complaint
>> was that it was too slow.

I'll ask exactly what broke. I don't recall.

>I hope it won't do that but my mountain biking buddy has welding gear.

Well... go the unto:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/5-ton-log-splitter-61373.html>
Click on "Customer Reviews" and then "Sort by -> Lowest Rating". There
were a few mechanical failures listed, but mostly complaints that the
electric splitter was unable to logs bigger than perhaps 4" across.
Also a fair number of leaks. My neighbor did post his experience with
the broken weld, but I couldn't find it.

>I once borrowed "Betsy" from friend of ours:
>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/splitter.JPG
>
>Completely homebrew, built on the front axle of a 1939 DeSoto. Old US
>Army motor from 1942, rope start. Started every time but you have to
>stand aside because the "exhaust" consist of some water pipes and a lot
>of rusty chunks spew out with gusto. The cylinder is an old Caterpillar
>version from an industrial boneyard. Betsy would squeeze through everything.

You previously mentioned that splitter. I vaguely recall that I
commented on the construction and pointed out some safety issues. It
looks quite "beefy" and as long as nothing comes apart, it should work
just fine.

>When they gave up their home tehy wamnted to give us Betsy but she's
>just too big and no way to properly store such a monster.

You should have taken it. You could probably leave it in an open
field and nobody would steal it.

>This is our usual firewood stash:
>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/firewood07.JPG

Nicely done. This is my 2016 pile:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/firewood-2016.html>
That's 1.5 cords of mostly madrone. There's another 0.5 cords
scattered around the property. I'm stuck with 16" max logs due to the
size of the wood burner:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/wood-burner.html>
The plan of the moment is to torch off the back, add a 2" spacer, and
stick arc the back in place. That should get me to 18" logs. I might
also fab and add an afterburner.

>> Well, if CO2 can be made to work, maybe just submerging the tube of
>> rubber cement in bottle of beer would be sufficient.

>Beer is for drinking, not for storing patch kit cement :-)

I have some kind of hereditary digestive disorder that makes drinking
alcohol somewhat unpleasant. I also get easily intoxicated. It was a
problem in college, where everyone drank beer, and I was the
"designated driver". Today, I don't care. For me, beer is just
another way to keep rubber cement solvent from evaporating.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/21/2016 12:27 PM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> situps n crunches......bend over n twist stretching ex

FWIW, I'm skeptical about situps and crunches. Like most non-biking
exercises, I've tended to do them for a while, then forget about them
for a while. Over a period of years, it dawned on me that when I do more
situps, I get more lower back pain.

I wonder if the explanation might be that situps tend to put the lower
spine in compression. There are other abdominal exercises that reduce
that compression. Those seem easier on my back. YMMV, of course.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

A gasket over tube threads with air squeezed out does not prevent hardening.

Frank, check your heels fir wear n chronic pelvic imposition.

Bend over n reach out the turn torso ...stretch muscles attached to spine/upper pelvis.

Lieb doesn'drink enough water.

IHS

the Art of Electronics ISBN ?

[John B.]

Sit-ups put a very heavy load on the back. Try sit-backs and leg ups
as a substitute.

The Trunk composes about 50 - 55% of the total body weight.
--
cheers,

John B.

[Joerg]

On 2016-10-21 18:10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:09:29 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Edwards stuff always costs and arm and a leg.
>
> Yep. Typically about $1,200 for a rebuilt pump. They're also
> overkill for sucking air out of plastic bag, which is why I mentioned
> Harbor Freight.
>
>> I ratehr buy some new cement tubes :-)
>
> Me too, if I could be sure they have rubber cement inside. The
> problem is throwing a bunch of tubes into my car, and finding all of
> them empty after a few months. Unless you want to replace the rubber
> cement tubes with new tubes ever few months, I don't think a cyclic
> approach is going to work.

How can a sealed tube be empty? I have had rubber cement tubes that were
unopened but decades old. The innards were fine. But only for the first
flat fix and half a year later all gummed up.


> ... I'm trying to determine exactly what's

> causing the solvent to evaporate, and deal with that problem directly.

If the tube metal is that lousy a vacuum wrap should help. Unless the
cement self-vulcanizes like someone here mentioned but then the (now
bad) stuff should still be in there.

> Incidentally, metal cans are much better than the little tubes, but
> can still dry out if I slop some cement around the seal. I found a
> substantial improvement when I cut a Teflon disk replacement for the
> metal cap seal. However, I haven't bothered to see if the seal is
> reliable.
>
>>> One of my neighbors had one of those. It broke some welds after
>>> splitting about 2 cords of oak, madrone, and fir. My main complaint
>>> was that it was too slow.
>
> I'll ask exactly what broke. I don't recall.
>
>> I hope it won't do that but my mountain biking buddy has welding gear.
>
> Well... go the unto:
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/5-ton-log-splitter-61373.html>
> Click on "Customer Reviews" and then "Sort by -> Lowest Rating". There
> were a few mechanical failures listed, but mostly complaints that the
> electric splitter was unable to logs bigger than perhaps 4" across.
> Also a fair number of leaks. My neighbor did post his experience with
> the broken weld, but I couldn't find it.
>

I read the reviews before ordering but the vast majority was quite
positive. Some folks have split logs way bigger than the 10" max listed.
But we shall see. Around $260 with tax and shipping isn't very much for
a device like this.

>> I once borrowed "Betsy" from friend of ours:
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/splitter.JPG
>>
>> Completely homebrew, built on the front axle of a 1939 DeSoto. Old US
>> Army motor from 1942, rope start. Started every time but you have to
>> stand aside because the "exhaust" consist of some water pipes and a lot
>> of rusty chunks spew out with gusto. The cylinder is an old Caterpillar
>> version from an industrial boneyard. Betsy would squeeze through everything.
>
> You previously mentioned that splitter. I vaguely recall that I
> commented on the construction and pointed out some safety issues. It
> looks quite "beefy" and as long as nothing comes apart, it should work
> just fine.
>

Well, yeah, OSHA inspectors would get a heart attack just from seeing it.

>> When they gave up their home tehy wamnted to give us Betsy but she's
>> just too big and no way to properly store such a monster.
>
> You should have taken it. You could probably leave it in an open
> field and nobody would steal it.
>

No open field here and my wife wants things to remain tidy and nice, not
with several rusty contraptions parked here and there.

>> This is our usual firewood stash:
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/firewood07.JPG
>
> Nicely done. This is my 2016 pile:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/firewood-2016.html>
> That's 1.5 cords of mostly madrone. There's another 0.5 cords
> scattered around the property. I'm stuck with 16" max logs due to the
> size of the wood burner:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/wood-burner.html>
> The plan of the moment is to torch off the back, add a 2" spacer, and
> stick arc the back in place. That should get me to 18" logs. I might
> also fab and add an afterburner.
>

We have a Quadrafire insert, takes 18" logs max. It's a worthy
investment because it has an intricated combustion method where you can
burn without smoke crawling out the chimney. I burnt skin on my arm up
there once cleaning the adjacent pellet stove vent because there is also
no smell and I forgot that the wood stove was going.

>>> Well, if CO2 can be made to work, maybe just submerging the tube of
>>> rubber cement in bottle of beer would be sufficient.
>
>> Beer is for drinking, not for storing patch kit cement :-)
>
> I have some kind of hereditary digestive disorder that makes drinking
> alcohol somewhat unpleasant. I also get easily intoxicated. It was a
> problem in college, where everyone drank beer, and I was the
> "designated driver". Today, I don't care. For me, beer is just
> another way to keep rubber cement solvent from evaporating.
>

I grew up in an area where beer was considered basic nutrition and
drinking age limits were unheard of and wouldn't have been adhered to
anyhow.

[jbeattie]

Too many full-range sit-ups can strain the psoas muscle -- which can wreak havoc on your low back and mimic a blown disc (or two). I had a crash two weeks ago -- my son came home from college; we went for a ride. He crashed on a wet descent, and I cart-wheeled over him. I smashed my helmet (another thread), broke my hand and, unbeknownst to me, started bleeding into my psoas. Two days later, I was doubled-over in pain with a non-functioning left leg. I've broken my legs, ribs, separated shoulders, etc. and none of that even came close to the pain I was in. Even after a bunch of Dilaudid it still hurt. After getting an MRI, the ER doc tells me I have a giant hematoma in the psoas -- no treatment except pain killers. It has resolved to the point where I can ride on a trainer -- but I now have a bunch of hardware in my right hand, so I won't be riding outside for a while. The top of my left quad is still numb. Anyway, an object lesson in physiology and overlooked muscle-groups.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

Yow. Sorry to hear about your crash.

FWIW, my next safety article for our bike club will probably mention wet
leaves, wet steel, etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:26:03 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 2016-10-21 18:10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>> Me too, if I could be sure they have rubber cement inside. The
>> problem is throwing a bunch of tubes into my car, and finding all of
>> them empty after a few months. Unless you want to replace the rubber
>> cement tubes with new tubes ever few months, I don't think a cyclic
>> approach is going to work.
>
>How can a sealed tube be empty? I have had rubber cement tubes that were
>unopened but decades old. The innards were fine. But only for the first
>flat fix and half a year later all gummed up.

I've had it happen a few times. Mostly, it was the small tire patch
kits (various vendors) that I carry on my bicycle(s) and in my junk
box in the car. Brand new tube, never opened, sealed, and empty after
a few months. I cut open one such tube, and found a sticky lump of
rubber cement near the bottom. However, it was at best 10% of the
tube volume. I don't have an explanation, theory, or guess(tm), yet.

>If the tube metal is that lousy a vacuum wrap should help. Unless the
>cement self-vulcanizes like someone here mentioned but then the (now
>bad) stuff should still be in there.

Vulcanizes means that it changes from a sticky goo, to a non-sticky
goo. I've never seen it actually harden. I think the problem is that
it somehow dissappears or perhaps evaporates. I can see how that
might be possible for the solvent, but not for the rubber cement.

>We have a Quadrafire insert, takes 18" logs max. It's a worthy
>investment because it has an intricated combustion method where you can
>burn without smoke crawling out the chimney. I burnt skin on my arm up
>there once cleaning the adjacent pellet stove vent because there is also
>no smell and I forgot that the wood stove was going.

Oops. I priced such stoves that have afterburners and don't require a
catalytic converter. I'm tempted, but at about $1,000 including
shipping, I'm hesitant. Quadrafire is probably one of the more
expensive types:
<http://www.quadrafire.com/Browse/Inserts/Wood-Inserts.aspx>
I'm waiting for the existing wood burner to fall apart or burn
through, but that's not happening.

>I grew up in an area where beer was considered basic nutrition and
>drinking age limits were unheard of and wouldn't have been adhered to
>anyhow.

I have one drunk, two recovering alcoholics, and a compulsive gambler
in the family. Best for me to just avoid the temptation.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 3:33:33 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> Has anyone had success with the glue less tire patches? The ones where
> you just sandpaper the tube and stick the patch on without any tire
> cement.
>
> I seem to remember sitting on the side of the road some years ago,
> with the rain pouring down and the damned patches wouldn't stick at
> all... But that may very well have been the environment :-)
>
> I'm not particularly concerned whether the patched inner tube will
> still be holding air 1 year from now I am mainly concerned with
> getting home that day. If the patch was air tight for, oh say 4 hours,
> I'd be satisfied.
>
> I have also read that some makes of these patches are better than
> others but the only sort I have seen here are made by "SuperB" whoever
> they might be.
> --
> cheers,
>
> John B.

The problem with glueless patches quite surprisingly is nothing more than the talcum powder they place on the tube to allow it to spin in the tire after it's been shoved in a bit crooked. At one time we would half fill the tube and then let all of the air out to allow a tube to straighten itself out. This has pretty much gone by the wayside now, so what I do is fill the tube with almost too much air to put the tire back on the rim. This allows the tube tube to be installed all the way inside of the rim so that it is more difficult to pinch.

And yes, glue-less patches as well as glue patches are useless in the rain.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/22/2016 10:26 AM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2016-10-21 18:10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:09:29 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> I once borrowed "Betsy" from friend of ours:
>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/splitter.JPG
>>>
>>

>> You previously mentioned that splitter. I vaguely recall that I
>> commented on the construction and pointed out some safety issues. It
>> looks quite "beefy" and as long as nothing comes apart, it should work
>> just fine.
>>
>
> Well, yeah, OSHA inspectors would get a heart attack just from seeing it.

Well, I'm not sure OSHA would regard it as all that dangerous. They'd
demand a cover over the coupling between the engine and the pump, and
they'd be right; it certainly should have one. (It would take only
about an hour to install.)

OSHA draws wisecracks, and there are aspects I have disliked; but its my
impression that regulations are actually tighter in Europe.

More to the point, if OSHA had existed in the 1940s, I'd have gotten to
meet at least one of my grandfathers. I'd have liked that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

THE CAREER ENDING INJURY ipso facto

bummer bummer bummer

ura lucky you can sit up !

20 yars ago uwudda rolled n got up n rode on....

now look ura basket case.

after Portland Utah is certainly expansive....for a visitor....great ride down the Interstate thunderstorms raking the east/west hills.

Ride down the valley n turn right n up up up up over n across zoom zoom zooooom ....how about downhill on US 6's east side......eyeyyeyhahhah....

....................

ah yes J has a supply of extinctual west coast live oak. correct ?

very twisty here in Fla.

On the lower Mattole Road up th hill from Honeydew there's a broad field stretching off to the Pacific with a full sun tree ...

I stop there, let my hands unkink n visit.

Last time down, the tree was dying of thirst. Very sad.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

Goo Maps doahn map Wilder Road

https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=870&bih=437&q=usal+road+california&oq=usal+road+california&gs_l=img.1.0.0i24k1.2135.6511.0.8338.20.11.0.9.9.0.518.1865.0j8j1j5-1.10.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.19.1905...0j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1.NX1mWtOzDlU

the outside route

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ettersburg,+CA/Petrolia,+CA+95536/Ferndale,+CA/@40.3841224,-123.9303837,9z/data=!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x54d4f1a2214c4b3f:0x205347a229dce85f!2m2!1d-123.998116!2d40.135544!1m5!1m1!1s0x54d444e04f3b0f65:0x62a91272c52f856e!2m2!1d-124.2861705!2d40.3253487!1m5!1m1!1s0x54d410e319d10add:0x5a64970b8a68f249!2m2!1d-124.2639442!2d40.5762406!3e0

how’s that song go ?

[James]

On 23/10/16 04:01, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

> And yes, glue-less patches as well as glue patches are useless in the rain.
>

Now there is an opening for invention - water based patch glue.

I wonder... You can get water based "paint" that is used to make a
water proof membrane in a shower recess, for example. I wonder if that
stuff would stick to an inner tube?

--
JS

[Joerg]

On 2016-10-22 09:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:26:03 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-10-21 18:10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>>> Me too, if I could be sure they have rubber cement inside. The
>>> problem is throwing a bunch of tubes into my car, and finding all of
>>> them empty after a few months. Unless you want to replace the rubber
>>> cement tubes with new tubes ever few months, I don't think a cyclic
>>> approach is going to work.
>>
>> How can a sealed tube be empty? I have had rubber cement tubes that were
>> unopened but decades old. The innards were fine. But only for the first
>> flat fix and half a year later all gummed up.
>
> I've had it happen a few times. Mostly, it was the small tire patch
> kits (various vendors) that I carry on my bicycle(s) and in my junk
> box in the car. Brand new tube, never opened, sealed, and empty after
> a few months. I cut open one such tube, and found a sticky lump of
> rubber cement near the bottom. However, it was at best 10% of the
> tube volume. I don't have an explanation, theory, or guess(tm), yet.

Sounds like the bicycle battery the other day. Supposedly four 18650
Li-Ion cells. Except two were not connected and had zero electric
function which explained the short runtime on high-beam. They probably
contained 100% genuine Chinese sand.

>> If the tube metal is that lousy a vacuum wrap should help. Unless the
>> cement self-vulcanizes like someone here mentioned but then the (now
>> bad) stuff should still be in there.
>
> Vulcanizes means that it changes from a sticky goo, to a non-sticky
> goo. I've never seen it actually harden. I think the problem is that
> it somehow dissappears or perhaps evaporates. I can see how that
> might be possible for the solvent, but not for the rubber cement.
>

I never had it evaporate. The contents just gummed up and lost nearly
all stickiness.

>> We have a Quadrafire insert, takes 18" logs max. It's a worthy
>> investment because it has an intricated combustion method where you can
>> burn without smoke crawling out the chimney. I burnt skin on my arm up
>> there once cleaning the adjacent pellet stove vent because there is also
>> no smell and I forgot that the wood stove was going.
>
> Oops. I priced such stoves that have afterburners and don't require a
> catalytic converter. I'm tempted, but at about $1,000 including
> shipping, I'm hesitant. Quadrafire is probably one of the more
> expensive types:
> <http://www.quadrafire.com/Browse/Inserts/Wood-Inserts.aspx>
> I'm waiting for the existing wood burner to fall apart or burn
> through, but that's not happening.
>

We have the 3100 insert but with gold trim and a prettier door than in
this link. Cost around $2k about 10 years ago. Now it's $3k without any
gold. Per the government there is hardly any inflation. Phhhht. Yeah,
right. Lies, lies and more lies.

>> I grew up in an area where beer was considered basic nutrition and
>> drinking age limits were unheard of and wouldn't have been adhered to
>> anyhow.
>
> I have one drunk, two recovering alcoholics, and a compulsive gambler
> in the family. Best for me to just avoid the temptation.
>

If there is any genetic reason, yes. Otherwise it's all will-power. I
had my first brewsky when I was six. I confessed to my parents ... oh
... 20-30 years later :-)

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 12:01:33 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

book book

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

tho there are consumer epoxies suggesting rubber adhesion rubber is not the main target and mostly downplayed.

rubber adhesives are rubber contact cements.

except for shoe people like the evil NB where water soluble hot melts are used to defrod the public...imagine a water soluble shoe glue.

read

https://www.google.com/#q=what+is+the+difference+between+rubber+cement+and+contact+cement

[David Scheidt]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
:On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:26:03 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>

:wrote:

:>On 2016-10-21 18:10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

:>> Me too, if I could be sure they have rubber cement inside. The
:>> problem is throwing a bunch of tubes into my car, and finding all of
:>> them empty after a few months. Unless you want to replace the rubber
:>> cement tubes with new tubes ever few months, I don't think a cyclic
:>> approach is going to work.
:>
:>How can a sealed tube be empty? I have had rubber cement tubes that were
:>unopened but decades old. The innards were fine. But only for the first
:>flat fix and half a year later all gummed up.

:I've had it happen a few times. Mostly, it was the small tire patch
:kits (various vendors) that I carry on my bicycle(s) and in my junk
:box in the car. Brand new tube, never opened, sealed, and empty after
:a few months. I cut open one such tube, and found a sticky lump of
:rubber cement near the bottom. However, it was at best 10% of the
:tube volume. I don't have an explanation, theory, or guess(tm), yet.

Rubber cements consist of rubber, in a solvent, and the case of
vulcanizing cements, some vulcanizing accelerants and often an
ultra-accelerator activator. The solvent makes up 70 to 90% of the
weight of the cement. The solvent could be defusing through the tube
(modern tubes are some plastic laminate, with a number of different
layers, designed to do different thinggs, including keep the VOCs in
the tube.) It's also possible the tubes are not properly sealed, and
the solvent can evaporate through the improperly welded end.


--
sig 61

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

goo.gl/V4rJcu

[Doug Landau]

On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 11:52:11 AM UTC-7, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> Goo Maps doahn map Wilder Road
>
> https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=870&bih=437&q=usal+road+california&oq=usal+road+california&gs_l=img.1.0.0i24k1.2135.6511.0.8338.20.11.0.9.9.0.518.1865.0j8j1j5-1.10.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.19.1905...0j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1.NX1mWtOzDlU

Ahh, the ettersburg-honeydew road. BTDT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpD4eA_NjeM
see also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWMwZVjrHBU

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ettersburg,+CA/Petrolia,+CA+95536/Ferndale,+CA/@40.3841224,-123.9303837,9z/data=!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x54d4f1a2214c4b3f:0x205347a229dce85f!2m2!1d-123.998116!2d40.135544!1m5!1m1!1s0x54d444e04f3b0f65:0x62a91272c52f856e!2m2!1d-124.2861705!2d40.3253487!1m5!1m1!1s0x54d410e319d10add:0x5a64970b8a68f249!2m2!1d-124.2639442!2d40.5762406!3e0
>

Ahh, you've discovered forks of salmon, finally. Black bear too? Hope you went to black bear if you were in forks.

The ride from Sawyers Bar to Forks of Salmon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y215qZ-6BQ

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

THAT'S DOUG LANDAU !

good ride Doug.

No, I visited the Forks via a nearby earthquake. I went down the civilized highway and down a southern route to Redwoods Prairie missing the Forks.

Over the Platina n backdown to Garberville twice.

I drive a Ford E250 GT with Hellwig bars, Bilstein shocks, Toyo A/T 10 plies. A large sports car....underpowered. first trip was in my 544 Volvo, 4+ feet wide n not much higher made for post WW2 Swedish forest roads. Visited Petrolia before the church burned.

I was working with orca in the San Juan islands summers then Mexican grackles on the Colorado winters translating seismology and animal behavior into a predictable model. Thus several years off crossing the Coast Range n Sierra's.

For those never been there, the area is immense and unpopulated. The Usal Road video is the Coast Road type....add asphalt n there's a truck route. The Coastal range route into Ft Bragg is like that Usal video, and the long long road from Garberville to the coast at Westport.

Always stop at Stinkyone.

My hands ache after driving down to Shelter Cove ....turn turn turn for ? 4 hours.

I did a loop from Yuma to Yellowstone via Death Valley and the Bristlecone Forest above Big Pine across Cal 168, US 6 into Idaho ....in between the hurricane. Targhee Forest along that route is amazing as there is no one there. After the storm air was clear n clean of dust for the entire route. As dawn in Death valley with a ride up 190.

A cool focal length shot from the western edge of 190 to the Sierra as those granite walls then tower above that last plateau above Owens lake ..in the image.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

http://www.google.com/maps/dir/34.2985628,-119.3041453/Taft,+CA/35.3719326,-120.0896058/36.0754006,-120.4747462/Pinnacles,+CA+95043/@35.3923513,-122.4583837,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m17!4m16!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x80ea368f4e74756d:0x12c7e8af6df9a813!2m2!1d-119.4565078!2d35.1424671!1m0!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x8092469e2adb7d1f:0xe399ee00bf55ac33!2m2!1d-121.1451978!2d36.5307965!3e1

33 is Cal Primo ….cafe racers on weekends

Start at Mt Madonna camping outside Gilroy go down the backside on Powerline to Mt Madonna Road then 129 past Watsonville.

Go to Crazy canyon above the Quarry at 36.802827, -121.618624
From San Juan Grade RD

The quarry has AAA paperweights…ask or try the tracks
Into San Juan Batista

The route looking left on 129 is the San Andreas. The Quarry is from Mexico. San Juan sits on a hill is the SAF Pacific plate overflow onto the NA plate 36.802827, -121.618624

Then head on down to the Pinnacles

Simmler before the Temblors is a developers pipedream…all pipe no water ….the Carrizo route see internet is on the SAF with the famous crooked Wallace creek
.
A Field Guide to the San Andreas Fault by Lynch has several off the path riding instructions.

[Doug Landau]

> Start at Mt Madonna camping outside Gilroy go down the backside on Powerline to Mt Madonna Road then 129 past Watsonville.

Sitting in Watsonville rite now looking out the office window over the slough towards sunset beach.

Nothin shakin.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

not a quiver....very quiet for a week from Monterey to The Geysers

[Doug Landau]

> No, I visited the Forks via a nearby earthquake. I went down the civilized highway and down a southern route to Redwoods Prairie missing the Forks.

Above Forks: http://blackbearranch.org/

[Doug Landau]

According to "Roadside Geology of Northern California", the Klamath Mtns are the broken off 1/3 of the sierra nevada, shifted 80mi west on the mendicino fracture. 60M yrs ago? 80M
I-5, as it approaches Mt Shasta, crosses shasta lake, and there are klamaths on both sides. They are east of the 5 also, south of mt shasta.
But burney falls is lava. 3-15M yrs ago, covering up the granite
Where is the line?

https://www.google.com/search?q=geologic+provinces+of+california&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilidLHzPvPAhWqwFQKHXRSAXoQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=885#imgrc=Oj_7DoudhVfO-M%3A

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

try traveling to Mt Shasta n Nevada from Crescent City in Google Earth.

see the plate movement flying over the coastal rang then pivot from Ft Jones or one valley over ...that's 5 ?

https://www.panoramio.com/user/7153025/tags/Cathedral%20Canyon

I did the recognize the southern Cascades but the area is unknown....I pass thru it.

The Plateau is depressing for an Easterner with deforestation hemming us in...there's so much raw open space then there's so much raw open destruction.

I have an overnight campsite at the edge before heading down into the valley....great sunsets sunrises.

I was am will be looking for a trailbike for the area .... If Oregonians doahn let the miltia out.

I mentioned the cross country dirt road trip but an advisor said that's not possible for a solitary Jew.

[Doug Landau]

This Jew knows large portions of it already, tho

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

I looked over the online map assemblers $ite n a review or 2.....n went looking for the BMW ENDURO .... not in stock .... n was advised the route is thru private land holdings n not Turner's ....passage would be selective. I assume others had tried this n had problems cawsing lengthy detours on public roads.

what the detours are ? The Malheurian's not guilty verdict doesn't improve the situatio

[jbeattie]

We let the militia out. Incroyable. http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/27/us/oregon-standoff-ammon-bundy-acquittal/

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

Well, A.J. walked the first time too. There's still hope.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

THE MALHEURIANS are not out....dangerous sociopaths with automatic weapons ?

the jury ...rejecting the biased ? ....reflects on Orgun, what we experience in Orgun. And backwoods WA.

MORE WYERHAUSER ! minions n pawns of the devil Big Casino Big Dig Big Oil Big Timber

we'll need float an increased valuation for BLM land ........

if Orgunians let them go then what of Nevada ?



... HOW TO GET FROM SF TO SEATTLE goo.gl/K0v1Cl ........

[Doug Landau]

> > I wonder... You can get water based "paint" that is used to make a
> > water proof membrane in a shower recess, for example. I wonder if that
> > stuff would stick to an inner tube?

Don't forget to turn the bike upside down:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/24/article-2134578-12BF7942000005DC-736_634x442.jpg

Incroyable!

[russell...@yahoo.com]

> We let the militia out. Incroyable. http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/27/us/oregon-standoff-ammon-bundy-acquittal/
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

I can't understand this. There isn't any doubt these people were at the federal office, with guns, holding it captive and preventing the employees from working. I'm sure they have video of most of these people bragging about being there. How is taking over a federal office not a violation of the law? If I went downtown with a gun and took over the post office, I am sure I would be convicted of at least trespassing if not some other dangerous violation. Proves the justice system, courts, in this country is really fu--ed up.

[jbeattie]

I think you're safe if you stay on I-5.

-- Jay Beattie

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

WE DO NOT KNOW but we can speculate that this is an election year controlled by the BLM party, that the Orgun court room was judged not to be the last judicial venue for the Mals, that the level of jurisprudence there was not up to the task that is down home has value but here did not cut it with lasting judicial values.

third, time flows yield data on the Malheurians n their fellow travelers. The flow continues under investigation.

The Feds can appeal.

The Mals have 1-2 more trials ahead. The investigation material will apply

there. I doahn follow this closely but possibilities exist that what Mals testified to here will conflict with future statements there....

Beady's a lawyer he can add 20 more.

I have direct confrontation with the Malfactors during the winter, as a BLM-Fed
guy as a camper/researcher on BLM land. I-5 is not my environment and I feel potentially threatened by the spillover.

"well, the court approves of our actions ....we are legally setting you on fire caws you offend us ....the Boss Hog deal....wall...the boys broke your leg it'll heal daze just having fun no reason to make a stink abt it ......

[jbeattie]

Jury nullification is real. Stick it to the man! (at least until jurors get a taste of chaos themselves -- then its "law and order!").

I don't get the bit about standing up for ranchers. It's a fu***** business, not a religion. Why should ranchers get free access to public lands? Do we get a break on hamburgers? Plus, if the feds don't own the land, then the tribes do. If we're giving the land away, I want some. Put in a vacation home -- and I want a pony, too.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

I'm sure that a lot of "good old boys" were found innocent of lynching
in the deep south, probably for very similar reasons.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

Yah, the black lives matter guys have already made that point -- outside my office this afternoon. I'm close to the federal court house. I'm not sure its an apt comparison either. I think it is symptomatic of the same "piss in your boots" attitude that brought us Donald Trump. Burn it down! Oh crap, where am I going to sleep? More than ever in my lifetime, people are willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces." Rational discourse is a thing of the past.

-- Jay Beattie

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

Atkin stood on his porch while his dog Shadow barked in the rain.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oregon-malheur-20161028-story.html

The resonance of the acquittal was felt deeply both in the courtroom and across the country, in part because of the drama in the courtroom itself — Ammon Bundy’s other attorney, Marcus Mumford, was tackled by bailiffs and blasted with a stun gun when he stood to demand an explanation for why his client wasn’t being freed immediately.

Subtle humor.

I guess Atkin wants to go back to Global Recession brought on Bush mismanagement n Iraq war losses ?

People quoted say” I doahn support gun violence” then go on at length telling us how they support gun violence.

One of the commonalities with Trump

We would compare the auto group vs the bicycle group.

Our election is more violent.