combination spanners with different inclinations

[Emanuel Berg]

Did anyone bother with this for bike mechanics?

I just noticed two of my 10mm combination
spanners have their open ends in
opposite directions.

I suppose this is for clearance and so you can
do the correct "adjustable spanner" pull, even
tho I guess it isn't really necessary as there
are no loose parts anymore.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

[Emanuel Berg]

Another fine tool issue is longer sockets for
(some) dome nuts.

I know some of you don't like them (the dome
nuts), but I do. I think they look cool and at
least in theory make sense.

Anyway most of the common 13, 14, and 15mm
sockets are to short to get a hold.

Well, can't one use combination spanners for
that as well? Yes, but I would like to use my
torque wrench as I've heard Shimano recommends
28-32 Nm for their 1S hub wheel axle nuts, and
that is the closest I've got to my Torpedos :)

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:36:05 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Did anyone bother with this for bike mechanics?
>
>I just noticed two of my 10mm combination
>spanners have their open ends in
>opposite directions.
>
>I suppose this is for clearance and so you can
>do the correct "adjustable spanner" pull, even
>tho I guess it isn't really necessary as there
>are no loose parts anymore.

For such contortions, I recommend an open end crowfoot wrench:
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=open+end+crowfoot+wrench>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:45:06 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:
>... most of the common 13, 14, and 15mm

>sockets are to short to get a hold.

Use a deep well socket:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=deep+well+metric+sockets&tbm=isch>

[Emanuel Berg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> For such contortions, I recommend an open end
> crowfoot wrench:
> <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=open+end+crowfoot+wrench>

Yuk! Looks awful! I hope I never have to
get/use that! Never saw one either so they
cannot be that common. Perhaps more common in
other fields of mechanics like cars or
even aeroplanes?

[Emanuel Berg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Use a deep well socket:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=deep+well+metric+sockets&tbm=isch>

Great, that's exactly it.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 03:51:14 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> For such contortions, I recommend an open end
>> crowfoot wrench:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=open+end+crowfoot+wrench>

>Yuk! Looks awful!

Well, I could probably find one that's nickel plated. Would that look
less awful?

>I hope I never have to
>get/use that! Never saw one either so they
>cannot be that common.

Quite common among those who want a very compact tool box. All you
need is a ratchet wrench or breaker bar, a small collection of
crowfoot wrench ends, and you have something that will work at almost
any angle without adding extra pounds to your tool kit in duplicated
"handles". They're available in thin wrenches, which are more
suitable for bicycle work, like this Park's pedal wrench:
<https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Pedal-Wrench-Crow/dp/B00JXNZMMQ>

>Perhaps more common in
>other fields of mechanics like cars or
>even aeroplanes?

Dunno where they're popular. All of the major hand tool manufactories
sell them, so it's not like they're stuck in a niche market. Here's
SnapOn's 42 piece set. Not sure of the price, but it's VERY high:
<https://store.snapon.com/Open-End-inches-chrome-3-8-Drive-42pc-Open-End-Crowfoot-Wrench-Set-7-16-3--P631834.aspx>
More. Notice the prices:
<https://store.snapon.com/Open-End-inches-chrome-C867430.aspx>
and that it's listed under "Aviation hand tools".

I have a set of 3/8" drive crowfoot wrenches that I keep in my car. I
don't use them very often, but they're useful when nothing else will
fit.

A hinged ratcheting box and open end combination wrench is another
possible solution:
<http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?products_id=5762>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/GearWrench-7-Pc-Metric-Ratcheting-Combination-Flex-Head-Wrench-Set-9900-10-12-/252840233876>

[Emanuel Berg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>> Yuk! Looks awful!
>
> Well, I could probably find one that's nickel
> plated. Would that look less awful?

Ha ha, no, I mean the image with the crowfoot
wrench, the extender bar (?) and the ratchet,
it just looks grotesque, like a bird with
a cat's head or something... (and not in a nice
way if you happen to be an ornithologist as
well as cat person)

> hinged ratchet box

Indeed.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:15:40 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>>> Yuk! Looks awful!
>>
>> Well, I could probably find one that's nickel
>> plated. Would that look less awful?
>
>Ha ha, no, I mean the image with the crowfoot
>wrench, the extender bar (?) and the ratchet,
>it just looks grotesque, like a bird with
>a cat's head or something... (and not in a nice
>way if you happen to be an ornithologist as
>well as cat person)

Looks good to me:
<http://incrediblethings.com/pets/meowls-cat-heads-owl-bodies/>

>> hinged ratchet box
>
>Indeed.

Well, you could also make your own wrenches. The technique would be
similar to making your own knife. Buy a bar of heat treatable steel
that's the correct thickness:
<http://www.onlinemetals.com>
Trim to shape with either a band saw or angle grinder. Refine the
shape with an angle grinder, belt sander or hand file. Make a fancy
wooden handle in the same manner as a custom knife. Harden and anneal
the wrench. Clean up the slag, oil the wooden handle, make YouTube
video, and you're done.

[Ashevilliot]

Crowfoot wrenches are common in the aircraft industry. Hydraulic fitting nuts must be torqued to exact specifications. The crowfoot is the only way to do it.

[sms]

On 1/15/2018 5:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:36:05 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Did anyone bother with this for bike mechanics?
>>
>> I just noticed two of my 10mm combination
>> spanners have their open ends in
>> opposite directions.
>>
>> I suppose this is for clearance and so you can
>> do the correct "adjustable spanner" pull, even
>> tho I guess it isn't really necessary as there
>> are no loose parts anymore.
>
> For such contortions, I recommend an open end crowfoot wrench:
> <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=open+end+crowfoot+wrench>

Those are very useful. You can get a set from Harbor Freight.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-crowfoot-metric-wrench-set-94427.html>

[sms]

On 1/15/2018 5:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:45:06 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
> wrote:
>> ... most of the common 13, 14, and 15mm
>> sockets are to short to get a hold.
>
> Use a deep well socket:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=deep+well+metric+sockets&tbm=isch>

The 1/4" drive ones are also a good alternative to a set of nut drivers.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/10-pc-14-in-drive-metric-high-visibility-deep-socket-67874.html>

[jbeattie]

On Monday, January 15, 2018 at 9:55:32 PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 03:51:14 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >
> >> For such contortions, I recommend an open end
> >> crowfoot wrench:
> >> <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=open+end+crowfoot+wrench>
>
> >Yuk! Looks awful!
>
> Well, I could probably find one that's nickel plated. Would that look
> less awful?
>
> >I hope I never have to
> >get/use that! Never saw one either so they
> >cannot be that common.
>
> Quite common among those who want a very compact tool box. All you
> need is a ratchet wrench or breaker bar, a small collection of
> crowfoot wrench ends, and you have something that will work at almost
> any angle without adding extra pounds to your tool kit in duplicated
> "handles". They're available in thin wrenches, which are more
> suitable for bicycle work, like this Park's pedal wrench:
> <https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Pedal-Wrench-Crow/dp/B00JXNZMMQ>

But in the old days, nobody cared about torque values, and collecting giant wrenches was a right of passage. If you had little crowfoot wrenches, you'd get pantsed by the cool kids.

For working on modern bikes, the open-end wrench has gone the way of the dodo. I currently use my old Campagnolo pedal wrench for self defense, although for maximum intimidation, I use my headset press. Spinning the handle hypnotizes my enemies!

I was thinking of stringing up all my old headset, BB and pedal wrenches to make a wind chime, but I'd probably need a noise permit.

BTW, I was perfectly happy with my old open-ended pedal wrench and just guessing at torque. I hate the modern allen pedals and wrenches. Totally inconvenient! It's like putting the zipper-pull for your fly on the inside of your pants. Stupid! Looser!

-- Jay Beattie.

[Emanuel Berg]

jbeattie wrote:

> I hate the modern allen pedals and wrenches.
> Totally inconvenient!

Tho I don't "hate" them I prefer the open end
wrenches as well. I suppose the torque is
a pretty natural function of the length of the
shaft. Only if you put it into a pipe, that
doesn't apply...

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://www.tekton.com/flex-ratcheting-box-end-wrench-set-wrn76164?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIodvw-7Pf2AIVCmd-Ch3Zrw3cEAQYHSABEgIzBfD_BwE

Eg... 6/10

But but but the several here are not reliable...lube...maybe try a Teflon lock oil

[avag...@gmail.com]

30 years ago wandering into the F1 car park at Watkins ... surprised all visible fasteners were allens.

Then afters years of dissassociatiin with no tv ... stunned bt the tv's plastic F1 suspensions ...whoa the left front tore off.

Anyone have a miracle lube for ratchet ends or an optimal brand choice ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Well, you could also make your own wrenches.
> The technique would be similar to making your
> own knife. Buy a bar of heat treatable steel
> that's the correct thickness:
> <http://www.onlinemetals.com> Trim to shape
> with either a band saw or angle grinder.
> Refine the shape with an angle grinder, belt
> sander or hand file. Make a fancy wooden
> handle in the same manner as a custom knife.
> Harden and anneal the wrench. Clean up the
> slag, oil the wooden handle, make YouTube
> video, and you're done.

With programming, one can do a tool which for
the specific purpose is superior to anything
else in the world, be it commercial or free of
charge. (Programming is of course a tool to do
just that, but nevertheless.)

But with mechanical tools, I don't think
I could ever make a tool that is superior to
one which I can get cheaply from Crooks"R"Us.
And if it would be, the difference wouldn't be
one I would notice or one that would motivate
all the time spent on it.

So the only reason to do it would be so I can
be heckled by people dropping smart-ass comments
on YouTube, people who most likely themselves
never made a single tool!

To be able to do your own knives, axes etc.
would sure be cool tho, so no disrespect for
the skill itself...

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/17/2018 10:11 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Well, you could also make your own wrenches.
>> The technique would be similar to making your
>> own knife. Buy a bar of heat treatable steel
>> that's the correct thickness:
>> <http://www.onlinemetals.com> Trim to shape
>> with either a band saw or angle grinder.
>> Refine the shape with an angle grinder, belt
>> sander or hand file. Make a fancy wooden
>> handle in the same manner as a custom knife.
>> Harden and anneal the wrench. Clean up the
>> slag, oil the wooden handle, make YouTube
>> video, and you're done.
>

> But with mechanical tools, I don't think
> I could ever make a tool that is superior to
> one which I can get cheaply from Crooks"R"Us.
> And if it would be, the difference wouldn't be
> one I would notice or one that would motivate
> all the time spent on it.

It depends. I've certainly made tools. Not to duplicate something I
could buy at a store; instead, to get a tool that wasn't available - or
at least, not available in a reasonable time.

I don't recall having to do this for working on a bicycle, but I've done
it several times for other projects. Example: a car I once owned needed
a repair to part of the ventilation and air conditioning system. The
manual said to pull out the entire dashboard to access the bad part. But
an online discussion said a person with small hands could get it out by
pulling only the radio.

My hands are not small, but I was able to make a simple miniature wrench
that could reach the most inaccessible screw. That saved me much trouble
and expense.

Hmm: A bike-related example! It was very easy to make a super-long
screwdriver that allowed me to cannibalize the head from an old Zefal pump.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[David Scheidt]

Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:

:With programming, one can do a tool which for

:the specific purpose is superior to anything
:else in the world, be it commercial or free of
:charge. (Programming is of course a tool to do
:just that, but nevertheless.)

:But with mechanical tools, I don't think
:I could ever make a tool that is superior to
:one which I can get cheaply from Crooks"R"Us.
:And if it would be, the difference wouldn't be
:one I would notice or one that would motivate
:all the time spent on it.

You haven't spent much time in a workshop, then.
Shop made tools are nearly universal, to solve unique problems that
come up in that shop. I've made wrenches to fit stuff (out of bar
stock, mostly, but once for a plastic pipe cap, out of plywood), two
pin spanner wrenches, countless presses (including some to use on
bikes), and all sorts of piece holding fixures or templates. I've
modified wrenches (usually grinding them thinner).


--
sig 91

[Emanuel Berg]

David Scheidt wrote:

> You haven't spent much time in
> a workshop, then.

No, I have only lived in one for the last 2-3
years...

> Shop made tools are nearly universal, to
> solve unique problems that come up in that
> shop. I've made wrenches to fit stuff (out of
> bar stock, mostly, but once for a plastic
> pipe cap, out of plywood), two pin spanner
> wrenches, countless presses (including some
> to use on bikes), and all sorts of piece
> holding fixures or templates.

Well, wrenches, pin wrenches, and presses are
sure available to buy and not expensive at all.
As for "piece holding fixures or templates"
I don't know what that refers to but if those
are off the market good for you you are able to
produce them yourself.

> I've modified wrenches (usually grinding them
> thinner).

Yes, modifying tools is very common.

[AMuzi]

Great minds think alike:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/ZEFALV.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

+1
One may buy specialty wrenches, but this $35 thing is easily
duplicated with a 99c sale bin wrench and an acetylene torch:

http://www.classicchevy.com/assets/cci/images/size/265x265/sku/49-132.jpg

[David Scheidt]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

A similar tool, that didn't come out of the 99c bin:
https://imgur.com/8CvfsbA
quarter for scale.



--
sig 49

[avag...@gmail.com]

Fixed the trucks tilt wheel jammed release with silicones n a large screwdriver ... sundown ing at the Oasis along the way online finding steering wheel assembly n repair asks for obsolete tool twichery ...on utube

NAPA sells machined combo openings for ?

[David Scheidt]

Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:

:David Scheidt wrote:

:> You haven't spent much time in
:> a workshop, then.

:No, I have only lived in one for the last 2-3
:years...

:> Shop made tools are nearly universal, to
:> solve unique problems that come up in that
:> shop. I've made wrenches to fit stuff (out of
:> bar stock, mostly, but once for a plastic
:> pipe cap, out of plywood), two pin spanner
:> wrenches, countless presses (including some
:> to use on bikes), and all sorts of piece
:> holding fixures or templates.

:Well, wrenches, pin wrenches, and presses are
:sure available to buy and not expensive at all.

A pin wrench that fits the thing I'm taking apart is a trip to the
store (or a wait for UPS) away. If I can knock one out in five
minutes with a piece of scrap flat stock, a hacksaw, and a grinder,
I'm ahead, even if the tool were free. I've got a couple, including
an adjustable one, but sometimes you need something else.

The last little press I put
together was to replace the bearings in a small electric motor. It's
possilbe I could have found a commercial thing that worked, but a new
motor would have been cheaper. the press was two pieces of threaded
rod, two pieces of slotted bar stock, a bolt, a scrap piece of gas
pipe, a bunch of washers, and a few nuts. All of it was stuff around
the shop, all of it remains available for other uses.




--
sig 103

[Emanuel Berg]

David Scheidt wrote:

> A pin wrench that fits the thing I'm taking
> apart is a trip to the store (or a wait for
> UPS) away. If I can knock one out in five
> minutes with a piece of scrap flat stock,
> a hacksaw, and a grinder, I'm ahead, even if
> the tool were free. I've got a couple,
> including an adjustable one, but sometimes
> you need something else.

When I worked for a bricklayer here we used to
go to the hardware store almost every single
day because the tools ware always in disarray,
or abused, or missing. It took half the work
day, again almost every day.

At that point I decided that was never going to
happen to me so now I go to the HW store once
a month, and if there is something that "needs
to be done" and there is stuff missing,
I suppress that pressing need and do it the next
month instead.

IMO it is much better, more relaxed and also
more efficient, because instead of going back
and forth to get just the right stuff, which
then disappears and you have to do it all over
again, you focus not what cannot be done, but
what you can do with the equipment that you
know 100% where it is and in what state.

[avag...@gmail.com]

Photo

[Frank Krygowski]

You have jobs you delay until you can get just the right tool, maybe in
a few weeks? Those aren't jobs. Those are dilettante hobbies.

You learned the wrong lesson from your bricklayer job. The proper lesson
was to organize your tools and keep them organized.

Two pertinent bits of advice from my father:
1) A place for everything and everything in its place.
2) Anybody can do a job slowly. Smart people can do a job quickly and well.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[David Scheidt]

avag...@gmail.com wrote:
:Photo

of what?

--
sig 49

[Emanuel Berg]

Frank Krygowski wrote:

> You have jobs you delay until you can get
> just the right tool, maybe in a few weeks?
> Those aren't jobs. Those are
> dilettante hobbies.

Well, you can fire off whatever cabin fever
insults you like, I'm unaffected as I know the
every day value to hundreds of people of my
gardening, fire wood, carpentry, mechanics, and
home improvement "hobbies"...

[avag...@gmail.com]

Your tool making

[David Scheidt]

Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:

:Frank Krygowski wrote:

:> You have jobs you delay until you can get
:> just the right tool, maybe in a few weeks?
:> Those aren't jobs. Those are
:> dilettante hobbies.

:Well, you can fire off whatever cabin fever
:insults you like, I'm unaffected as I know the
:every day value to hundreds of people of my
:gardening, fire wood, carpentry, mechanics, and
:home improvement "hobbies"...

Typically, when I'm working on something, someone is either paying me
to fix it, or I need it working. I try to be prepared in advance, but
stuff happens. In either case, waiting for a monthly trip isn't going
to happen.

--
sig 4

[AMuzi]

On 1/18/2018 9:40 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> Photo
>

looks more like text to me.

[avag...@gmail.com]

DIY tool photo contest !