Taya Chain

[sms]

I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.

I bought it when RiteAid had just taken over Payless and was in the
process of destroying the Payless stores and was closing out all their
bicycle stuff and all their sporting goods. They once had an impressive
selection of bicycle stuff, fishing stuff, and camping stuff. Before
Long's was destroyed by CVS, Long's even sold some Park Tools.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Joerg]

On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
> I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
> garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.
>
> It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
> gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
> used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
> and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.
>

I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

> I bought it when RiteAid had just taken over Payless and was in the
> process of destroying the Payless stores and was closing out all their
> bicycle stuff and all their sporting goods. They once had an impressive
> selection of bicycle stuff, fishing stuff, and camping stuff. Before
> Long's was destroyed by CVS, Long's even sold some Park Tools.
>

Yeah, the good old days. Our Long's is also long gone :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
> > I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
> > garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.
> >
> > It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
> > gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
> > used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
> > and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.
> >
>
> I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
> from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
> sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
> anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
> stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
> because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
> that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike was junked.

[AMuzi]

The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to
today except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[sms]

On 8/28/2017 3:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was
> not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
> Record chains. That ended with SRAM.

$100 for a Campy Record chain. Ouch.

[AMuzi]

On 8/28/2017 7:48 PM, sms wrote:
> On 8/28/2017 3:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
>> process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to
>> today except for possibly Record chains. That ended with
>> SRAM.
>
> $100 for a Campy Record chain. Ouch.

Less here [1]. They do last a long time, significantly
longer than any other 11 chain.


[1] I doubt anyone actually gets $100

[sms]

On 8/28/2017 3:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

You can still find some NOS (new old stock) of the Sedisport 6/7 chains.
About $25.

[Joerg]

I saw a lot of them on EBay at that price range stating "pre-owned" in
the ad, meaning used and who knows for how many miles or whether
properly maintained.

The topper I ever saw was "pre-owned" underwear. Yikes.

[Doug Landau]

Hmmm... whatta -you- been readin ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:craigslist.org+underwear&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG7M_Xpf3VAhWmh1QKHQ4-CJoQpwUIIA&biw=1199&bih=671

[Joerg]

Nah, not this kind of stuff. It was some auction site. No kidding. I
couldn't believe it.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 11:45:45 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

What if they were pre-owned by Elizabeth Taylor?

[Joerg]

It was men's underwear ...

[cycl...@gmail.com]

What makes you think that Elizabeth Taylor didn't wear men's underwear? She got pretty large near the end.

[Doug Landau]

How about Chiyaki Kuriyama? AFAICT she doesn't even wear underwear at all.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&biw=1262&bih=706&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=chiyaki+kuriyama+underwear&oq=chiyaki+kuriyama+underwear&gs_l=psy-ab.3...24331.28362.0.28556.16.16.0.0.0.0.126.1192.15j1.16.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.284...0i7i30k1j0i13k1.0zfyIxpXhdg

[John B.]

In a less humorousness vein, did you know that "back in the day"
runners used to wear women's panties? Now, of course, running shorts
incorporate "panties" so it is no longer necessary to rob the lingerie
drawer :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Chiyaki Kuriyama is Japanese and if she were to wear a formal Kimono
then certainly she does not wear underpants in that instance :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[JQ]

Back in what day and what part of the world?

--
Ride fast, ride hard, ride for health and enjoyment... JQ Dancing on the
edge

[John B.]

Back in the day when I first started running and in the U.S. but as I
said, "modern" running shorts incorporate built in "panties".
see:
http://tinyurl.com/y7xnwz8n
http://tinyurl.com/yd9jq7fm
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Doug Landau]

Back in the day?!? I didn't know that the 1990', when I was trying "Hanes Her Way" instead of Perl Izumi was "back in the day"

[JQ]

Back in the day when I was a runner on the USA national scene, I never
wore women's undies nor anyone that I knew. Now some did wear women's
leggings during the winter and freezing temps for races, as far as I
know we all wore men's briefs. My day was back in the 70's, I can't say
post 70's as I was no longer able to run.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 3:40:23 PM UTC-7, JQ wrote:
>
> Back in the day when I was a runner on the USA national scene, I never
> wore women's undies nor anyone that I knew. Now some did wear women's
> leggings during the winter and freezing temps for races, as far as I
> know we all wore men's briefs. My day was back in the 70's, I can't say
> post 70's as I was no longer able to run.

And you didn't want to socialize with men that wore women's undies.

[John B.]

"back in the day" is an ambiguous term and usually used with a
modifier, either spoken or understood, as in "back in the day( When
Victoria was Queen )" or "back in the day (when I was young and
vigorous )"

--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

right...balaclava. I wear a balaclava as beret covering hairline from UV n keeping blowing hair off my face.

So the Amazon seller now lists, not at first. Used Balaclava.

Howsthat ? MIL surplus, used institutional sports. 2000 were s hipped to Bugusalami, then shipped outback then shipped to port to seller when was found wearing a balaclava was a religious problem. 27 people died in a riot.

That would be used. Esp since none of these speak gud english

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 6:25:06 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>
> "back in the day" is an ambiguous term and usually used with a
> modifier, either spoken or understood, as in "back in the day( When
> Victoria was Queen )" or "back in the day (when I was young and
> vigorous )"

John - you were NEVER young and vigorous.

[Doug Landau]

I miss the good old days back in February.

[John B.]

YES! I WAS!.... at least I think I remember that I was....
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

How's the weather ?

[AMuzi]

On 9/2/2017 1:04 AM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> How's the weather ?
>

Nice for mid-October!

It never got to normal warm all year here; cool spring, mild
summer, early autumn.

[Joerg]

I remember a cowboy on horseback telling us something similar and it was
a real manly John Wayne style guy. "Now I'll let you in on a secret on
how to avoid rashes from very long rides, but don't ya tell your mama or
anyone for that matter, ya hear?"

[...]

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:04:48 PM UTC-7, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> How's the weather ?

102 degrees F predicted in San Francisco. New record (they leave out "for the date").

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Speaking of manly - virtually every single star in Hollywood after the mid-40's had been in the service and many of them (often the guys that played bad guys) had silver stars and purple hearts. Even Soupy Sales and Ernest Borgnine. The one exception was, surprisingly, John Wayne, who volunteered three times but they wouldn't let him in because of a bad back or something.

Today we have these guys playing heros that don't even know what a hero is.

[Joerg]

John Wayne could certainly play them right. On Sunday we saw "Flying
Tigers" for the umpteenth time.

What was one of his sayings? "Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyhow".

[John B.]

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:27:30 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

And Audie Murphy, who was I believe, the most decorated U.S. service
man in WW II was a poor actor.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Whereas your favorite actors like Arnold Schwarzenegger and
Leonardo DiCaprio are simply great actors.

[Doug Landau]

Meh. What's he doing on this Hodaka then?
https://www.google.com/search?q=john+wayne+hodaka&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVo6LH0o7WAhXpqlQKHfk0DQsQ_AUICigB&biw=1232&bih=694#imgrc=vHYNJY3Oxzv6pM:
Let's see him ride a Maico 490

[Joerg]

Seems like he rode others as well:

http://www.graphicsexpress.com/shop/images/th2_MC-3.jpg

[John B.]

I don't have "favorite actors" I haven't watch a (what would you call
it, a Movie?) either on the screen or via Television) in probably 30
years.

In fact when I read a news article mentioning "XYZ the Star of ABC" my
first thought is "Who", and my second is, "Unimportant".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Doug Landau]

Uhm... OTOH, we have him saying to a Viet Namese 6-y/o, at the end of 'the green berets': "You're what this is all about." Yea, rite. Uh-huh.

[Joerg]

He was right. If we hadn't lost that war the 6-year olds back then would
now not have to live under communism.

[Joerg]

On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>>> On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
>>>> I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
>>>> garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.
>>>>
>>>> It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
>>>> gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
>>>> used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
>>>> and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
>>> from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
>>> sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
>>> anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
>>> stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
>>> because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
>>> that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.
>>
>> The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike
>> was junked.
>>
>
> The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was
> not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
> Record chains. That ended with SRAM.
>

Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is
kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust
bin. Well, usually.

For example, transmissions nowadays typically last the whole lifetime of
a car. 20+ years for us on two vehicles so far, for everything. Vehicle
owners would have a hissy fit if they had to swap out a chain every 5000
miles.

[Doug Landau]

That may be, but it's not why we were there.

[Joerg]

Then why in your opinion?

History generally says it was to suppress the spread of communism, just
like that line in the movie was meant.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/vietnam-war/the-causes-of-the-vietnam-war/

Quote "The causes of the Vietnam War revolve around the simple belief
held by America that communism was threatening to expand all over
south-east Asia".

http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm

Quote "U.S. policymakers, and most Americans, regarded communism as the
antithesis of all they held dear. ..."

I agree with that sentence.

[Doug Landau]

Whoa whoa whoa! Already you make an assumption and try to pretend that I subscribe to it also. What makes you think that stopping the spread of something - evil or not - is done for the benefit of the future generation, rather than for one's own pleasure, revenge, satisfaction, zeal, fullfillment of desire or of self, or as an outlet of natural agression?

Seems to me that we need a war every 20 years. Every 20 years there is a new crop of 20-y/olds, full of natural agression, and their attitude is contagious, and does affect/spread to the population at large, to some extent

> http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/vietnam-war/the-causes-of-the-vietnam-war/
>
> Quote "The causes of the Vietnam War revolve around the simple belief
> held by America that communism was threatening to expand all over
> south-east Asia".
>
> http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm
>

Do you think if I google looking for alternative reasons for us to be in there, that I'll find some? Who cares.

> Quote "U.S. policymakers, and most Americans, regarded communism as the
> antithesis of all they held dear. ..."
>
> I agree with that sentence.

I agree with it in part, too, but that is not what is in question.

I think that there are a number of reasons that came together why we were in that war. Not absent is the element of Jihad in our own souls. Also present were our relationship with France, and our own fear of losing our own country, after the dominos all fall around us. Also present was pressure from the industries that benefit, and from the politicians who subscribe to that.

Capitalism is a great idea. But for a prosecutor to bust up a monopoly, and break up AT&T or come down on Microsoft, and then say to a 6-y/o "this is all for you, now you will have a better future" is (er, would be) just bullshit, and deceiving one's self in the highest possible way. The righteous act for themselves, even when they are right.

[Doug Landau]

Steven Keisling, in "The Shell Game", said that he rows because (perhaps in part) it is an outlet for the natural aggression that he believes we all have.

Will we ever hear a politician say such a thing?

[John B.]

But of course He didn't say it. The script writer said it, He just
repeated it :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 11:44:02 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

But what's wrong with living under communism? Given Vietnam's history
since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
under the present government as they were under previous regimes.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 13:29:59 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper". One of them
described a cash for suggestion program that Ford (I believe) had for
a time and commented that when you made a million cars the removal of
one sheet metal screw in the firewall was of interest.

As for a chain drive lasting 5,000 miles, it is perfectly feasible to
build a chain drive that will last more then 5,000 miles. Of course it
will cost more and be rather large and ugly and will, of course be
heavier then a current systems, but it can be built.... if anyone will
buy it.

What's his Face... the guy that lives in the low rent district of the
Irish Republic, did that a few years back and described how it was
done in loving detail.

I haven't bought a new chain in some time but I did see a 9 speed
chain with a price tag on it recently and it was 500 baht. In Usian
money that would be about US$15.07.

Are you telling me that people that sprint around on 1000+ dollar
bicycles worry about a bicycle chain that costs so little money? 1.5%
of the cost of the bike?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Doug Landau]

Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.

In this case, the non-hardened chains make less noise, 'cuz the edges go 'ting' less, and consumers perceive this as better shifting. ;-)

[Joerg]

I did not. Didn't read the question above?


> ... What makes you think that stopping the

> spread of something - evil or not - is done for the benefit of the
> future generation, rather than for one's own pleasure, revenge,
> satisfaction, zeal, fullfillment of desire or of self, or as an
> outlet of natural agression?
>

It is done for both. However, most of all for coming generations because
a decent human being care more for the offspring whether it's his own or
not.

> Seems to me that we need a war every 20 years. Every 20 years there
> is a new crop of 20-y/olds, full of natural agression, and their
> attitude is contagious, and does affect/spread to the population at
> large, to some extent
>
>> http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/vietnam-war/the-causes-of-the-vietnam-war/
>>
>>
>>
Quote "The causes of the Vietnam War revolve around the simple belief
>> held by America that communism was threatening to expand all over
>> south-east Asia".
>>
>> http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm
>>
>
> Do you think if I google looking for alternative reasons for us to be
> in there, that I'll find some? Who cares.
>
>> Quote "U.S. policymakers, and most Americans, regarded communism as
>> the antithesis of all they held dear. ..."
>>
>> I agree with that sentence.
> I agree with it in part, too, but that is not what is in question.
>
> I think that there are a number of reasons that came together why we
> were in that war. Not absent is the element of Jihad in our own
> souls. Also present were our relationship with France, and our own
> fear of losing our own country, after the dominos all fall around us.
> Also present was pressure from the industries that benefit, and from
> the politicians who subscribe to that.
>

Yes, there were a lot of other reasons as there are in most wars. The
key one was clear though, to stop the spread of communism.

> Capitalism is a great idea. But for a prosecutor to bust up a
> monopoly, and break up AT&T or come down on Microsoft, and then say
> to a 6-y/o "this is all for you, now you will have a better future"
> is (er, would be) just bullshit, and deceiving one's self in the
> highest possible way. The righteous act for themselves, even when
> they are right.
>

Total laissez-faire isn't a good thing. That can and will result in
situations such as where you can only buy at the company store. I think
most of us would agree that that's not a good thing. Same for the
environment. Some government regulation is necessary or it'll all go to
pots. What is completely undesirable is for the government to take over
our lives and that's what communism is.

[Joerg]

For example this:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/vietnam


> ... Given Vietnam's history

> since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
> under the present government as they were under previous regimes.

Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
wrong with communism.

[Joerg]

You've got to do your research first and then buy the right brand and
type of car. Which I always did except for my first car after getting
the degree (learned that lessen very fast).

> As for a chain drive lasting 5,000 miles, it is perfectly feasible to
> build a chain drive that will last more then 5,000 miles. Of course it
> will cost more and be rather large and ugly and will, of course be
> heavier then a current systems, but it can be built.... if anyone will
> buy it.
>
> What's his Face... the guy that lives in the low rent district of the
> Irish Republic, did that a few years back and described how it was
> done in loving detail.
>
> I haven't bought a new chain in some time but I did see a 9 speed
> chain with a price tag on it recently and it was 500 baht. In Usian
> money that would be about US$15.07.
>
> Are you telling me that people that sprint around on 1000+ dollar
> bicycles worry about a bicycle chain that costs so little money? 1.5%
> of the cost of the bike?

No, I am talking about people like me who also use bicycles for
transportation and not just for sports.

[Joerg]

And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says
in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked
like new.

> In this case, the non-hardened chains make less noise, 'cuz the edges
> go 'ting' less, and consumers perceive this as better shifting.
> ;-)
>

On a _bicycle_ ??

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:11:09 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>
> I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
> years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
> automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
> effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper".

Gee then it must be the government forcing manufacturers to make cars safer since the fatalities per passenger mile have dropped so precipitously.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Doug, some woman came around the corner, dropped her water bottle (so she says while clutching her smartphone to her breast) fished around for it and ran into the back of my parked car turning it into a pile of scrape metal and plastic. Looking for replacements I find 5 year old cars with 200,000 miles on the original motors and not only said to be running smoothly but still getting good mileage. That isn't being done with plastic gears. I picked up a 2007 with 50,000 miles on it and expect it to last my lifetime with only normal maintenance.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:14:44 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>
> > ... What makes you think that stopping the
> > spread of something - evil or not - is done for the benefit of the
> > future generation, rather than for one's own pleasure, revenge,
> > satisfaction, zeal, fullfillment of desire or of self, or as an
> > outlet of natural agression?
> >
>
> It is done for both. However, most of all for coming generations because
> a decent human being care more for the offspring whether it's his own or
> not.

I found this an EXTREMELY odd answer from Doug. I actually think far more of my step-children than I do of myself. Making the world a better and safer place for them is the object of government.

What possibly could make ANYONE that is sane think any differently?

[Doug Landau]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
After how many decades of pissing off customers because the plastic teeth stripped off of the gears after 40K miles?

[Doug Landau]

I'm talking about the automotive scene in the 1970s, Tom.

[John B.]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>

As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class. Certainly
Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the
Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being
robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that
approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for
food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the
Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold.

But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston
Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much
as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020.

It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I
said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority".

As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically
elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the
extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course
that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million
Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million).

By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a
million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total
of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly
100,000 annually.

From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during
the same period.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:57:10 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>

And what research is that? I do not remember what make of automobile
you mentioned but I do remember thinking that it was a low end model,
whatever it was. Is that research? I just looked up "best SUV" and two
out of the three best SUV's (for 2017) were Honda so I'd guess that
you must be driving a Honda. The third choice was a Ford.

>
>> As for a chain drive lasting 5,000 miles, it is perfectly feasible to
>> build a chain drive that will last more then 5,000 miles. Of course it
>> will cost more and be rather large and ugly and will, of course be
>> heavier then a current systems, but it can be built.... if anyone will
>> buy it.
>>
>> What's his Face... the guy that lives in the low rent district of the
>> Irish Republic, did that a few years back and described how it was
>> done in loving detail.
>>
>> I haven't bought a new chain in some time but I did see a 9 speed
>> chain with a price tag on it recently and it was 500 baht. In Usian
>> money that would be about US$15.07.
>>
>> Are you telling me that people that sprint around on 1000+ dollar
>> bicycles worry about a bicycle chain that costs so little money? 1.5%
>> of the cost of the bike?
>
>
>No, I am talking about people like me who also use bicycles for
>transportation and not just for sports.

I'm not so sure. You talk a lot about how much you ride a bicycle and
complain loudly about chain wear while James documents his rides - I
believe that he is in the 10,000 Mile?Km? region per year, and doesn't
seem to mention chain wear hardly at all.

It would seem logical to assume that you must be riding somewhere in
the neighborhood of what? 15,000 miles a year? If you never take a
holiday that is ~40 miles every day.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

You mean like when the government ordered that bumpers must withstand
an impact of 5 mph crash into a parked vehicle of the same weight?
Which isn't applicable to SUV's, minivans, or pickups trucks; only
passenger cars. Apparently trucks and vans never crash.

But of course, that was a stupid law imposed in 1971. More thoughtful
folks amended it in 1982 (for 1983 model year) and reduced it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Doug Landau]

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-335969.html
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/638986-nylon-timing-gear-how-identify.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/general-questions/48002-cost-timing-gear-replacement.html
http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Engine/chains.htm

[AMuzi]

The GM V8 Delrin coat cam gear teeth do run quieter but do
indeed fail before a steel/steel set would. In my case about
80K miles. Replacement chain and gear set plus gaskets is
all relatively cheap. The exchange may be done in the car by
slacking the motor mounts and lifting the block a couple of
inches. Worst part of it is the timing cover to oil pan
joint. All in, about 3 hours- and that's out of doors
without prior experience of that particular job. i.e.,
serious but not overly daunting.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Doug Landau]

Yeah, I did it on the 85 chevy van I bought recently and it was much easier than on a dodge. Actually I think I was supposed to loosen the motor mounts but did not. But on a chrysler at least a smallblock you have to remove the intake too as it overlaps on top.

Worst part of it was that they failed after the warranty expired.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:

The smaller Ford V6 uses rubber timing belts and they insist that you absolutely MUST replace them on 50,000 mile intervals or bye-bye motor. GMC apparently has a V8 that way. My stepdaughter's SUV broke a belt and exploded the motor - the mechanic told her not to replace the motor because the new one would do exactly the same thing.

My Ford has the larger V6 with a steel timing belt and they go just short of forever. These cars are advertised 5 years old and with 200,000 miles on them. People actually commute from Sacramento to San Francisco!

Here's one with almost 250,000 miles on it: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/d/2000-ford-taurus-ses/6266166468.html

In the '60's you'd be LUCKY to get a motor to last 100,000 miles.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Doug, what cars used plastic gears in the '70's? Perhaps there were but at that time I was buying pretty good cars like Mustangs and Camaros with big engines in them. Not to drive fast so much as to get on the freeway ahead of people purposely trying to cut you off.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

John, my wife's older Keo tells her if a tire is low. Is that by government edict? My car warns me if my gas is getting low so that I won't run out on the freeway. Was that a government edict? We are getting small sedans not only swerving in front of tractor trailers but being struck so hard that they are doing multiple roll-overs with the cars totally unrecognizable afterwards and NO INJURIES to the passengers. What are the government edicts? You have to wear your seatbelts.

If you don't know the business don't make your comments as you usually do. It is almost entirely the automotive industry that is improving auto safety. This is especially important as vehicles become less and less metal. On my smashed up 1999 Ford it appears that the only steel on it is the frame which is bent so badly that one wheel is so high that it isn't touching the ground. There is no damage at all in the passenger compartment. The SUV that struck my car hardly appeared to have any damage beyond the broken right front bumper.

The airbags deployed so the engine automatically turned off to prevent fires.

Living in a backward country apparently makes you think that the entire world is that way. Oh, wait, you think that the medical science in Thailand is as good as the USA. After all you only need 10% of the doctors.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 6:58:42 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
>
> http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-335969.html
> http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/638986-nylon-timing-gear-how-identify.html
> https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/general-questions/48002-cost-timing-gear-replacement.html
> http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Engine/chains.htm

Doug - those were not plastic gears. It was a COATING that could peel off and cause problems. Mostly they plugged the oil system.

I'd be careful blaming jumped timing on the coating. Tearing through the gears drag racing would beat the timing gears to death and this normally caused the timing gear failures. I've seen a tooth broken off and the jackass still driving it with Lord only knows how the gears would work.

[sms]

The fact is that timing belts are actually more reliable than timing
chains on OHC and DOHC engines, as long as you follow the recommended
replacement interval. I recall when Saturn touted that they used a
chain, not a belt, and that the chain would last the life of the engine.
What actually happened was that the engine lasted the life of the chain,
and there were a lot of broken timing chains. Eventually they went back
to a timing belt, but it was too late for Saturn which had gained a
reputation of being unreliable and overpriced, and GM eventually shut
down that division without it ever having made a profit.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[sms]

They are not made of rubber. They are typically made of a combination of
neoprene and kevlar. It is true that the timing belt needs to be
replaced at periodic intervals.

> My Ford has the larger V6 with a steel timing belt and they go just short of forever. These cars are advertised 5 years old and with 200,000 miles on them. People actually commute from Sacramento to San Francisco!

Some vehicles have had large numbers of timing chain failures resulting
in the destruction of the engine. The joke among mechanics is that when
a manufacturer states "a timing chain will last the life of the engine"
what they really mean is that "an engine will last the live of the
timing chain." Also, timing chains, like bicycle chains, eventually
stretch, and can jump a tooth.

Timing chains should also be replaced periodically, even though there is
no replacement schedule published.

[sms]

On 9/7/2017 7:59 AM, Joerg wrote:

The recommended timing belt change interval is very conservative. I've
had it done on my SUV at 100K and while the belt did not look new when
it came out, it was clear that it would have gone far longer without
breaking. There are several advantages to timing belts versus timing
chains, especially on engines where a long chain or belt is needed. A
timing chain needs to have a system to keep it oiled. Chains stretch
more than a kevlar reinforced neoprene belt. Chains are noisier. Chains
are expensive to replace and contrary to what some people believe, they
do NOT last "forever" just because there is no scheduled replacement
interval.

[sms]

You assume that the fall in fatalities per passenger mile are due solely
to the addition of various safety equipment. While it is a contributing
factor, there are other major factors. First, more passenger miles are
being driven on limited access freeways where fatality rates per mile
are far lower. Second, increased traffic congestion has reduced average
speeds.

But John's statement is also not quite accurate. While it's true that
the industry has worked to decontent vehicles to save money, at the same
time they've added various safety feature which don't cost much to add
since it's just some inexpensive sensors and software. Traction control
basically costs nothing once a vehicle has wheel speed sensor for ABS.
Collision avoidance, lane departure warning, back up cameras, and TPMS
have a very low added cost. Meanwhile, they've saved a lot by moving to
2.5MPH bumpers from 5MPH bumpers (Reagan's fault), eliminating high cost
items like vent windows, rain gutters, balance shafts, weatherproofing,
and one thing I just noticed, dual horns (high/low). Also really
annoying, on the last two vehicles we bought, was the absences of a way
to prevent the trunk from being opened from inside the vehicle.

The manufacturers have realized that safety sells, so they don't want to
eliminate parts that help them do better in the crash testing, and they
compete for the most airbags.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/8/2017 11:32 AM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> O

> John, my wife's older Keo tells her if a tire is low. Is that by government edict?

Um... yes, it is.

> My car warns me if my gas is getting low so that I won't run out on the freeway. Was that a government edict? We are getting small sedans not only swerving in front of tractor trailers but being struck so hard that they are doing multiple roll-overs with the cars totally unrecognizable afterwards and NO INJURIES to the passengers. What are the government edicts? You have to wear your seatbelts.

There's a lot of these rules that you don't seem to know about. Maybe
you should at least hit Wikipedia before posting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards

> If you don't know the business don't make your comments as you usually do. It is almost entirely the automotive industry that is improving auto safety. This is especially important as vehicles become less and less metal. On my smashed up 1999 Ford it appears that the only steel on it is the frame which is bent so badly that one wheel is so high that it isn't touching the ground. There is no damage at all in the passenger compartment.

That's probably a result of the crash impact standards. You know, the
things they do with the crash test dummies inside the cars? Regulation
FMVSS No. 201


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Doug Landau]

Tom shut yer mouth willya. I towed the old family car home myself from skool, and changed the timing chain and gears; the teeth were nylon and stripped off, and the chain had hopped and the timing marks on the gears were no longer aligned, but off by one tooth. Which is why all the backfiring and spasms when it wouldn't start.

[Joerg]

On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote:

[...]

>>> ... Given Vietnam's history
>>> since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
>>> under the present government as they were under previous regimes.
>>
>>
>> Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
>> relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
>> who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
>> if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
>> wrong with communism.
>
> As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
> with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class.

Not the ones I met. They didn't have much more than the shirt on their
backs and most didn't own real estate over there or had much in terms of
other wealth. A simple bicycle was already considered a luxury.


> ... Certainly

> Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the
> Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being
> robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that
> approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for
> food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the
> Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold.
>
> But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston
> Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much
> as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020.
>
> It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I
> said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority".
>

I was referring to the same group. Simple workers. They fled because of
brutal oppression. Here in the US they realized how much of a
perspective they can have, learning new stuff such as electronics that
would have remained a complete illusion in Vietnam.

> As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically
> elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the
> extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course
> that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million
> Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million).
>

A lot of bad things happened half a century or more ago, sometimes in
the name of "Western values" or 100+ years ago even Christian missionary
"work" (and I am saying that as a practicing Lutheran). However, things
got better, much better. In communism they didn't.

> By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
> arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a
> million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total
> of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly
> 100,000 annually.
>
> From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during
> the same period.
>

That qualifies as mass exodus, especially considering the untold
millions who did not succeed or didn't dare. Plus those snatched and
sent to "re-eduction camps" a.k.a gulag.

[Joerg]

Reliability statistics from large auto clubs (those guys truly know),
then in the 90's here in the US "Edmund's", and talk to car mechanics
(those also truly know what's good and what isn't). Then research how
it's built. H-frame truck chassis (good) or unibody (not so great), and
so on. Most of all, look. The sales agent's jaw dropped because I was
his first customer ever who wanted to crawl underneath the vehicle
before signing on the dotted line. Which made me wonder why none of the
other hundreds of customers did. I liked what I saw there as well as in
the engine compartment, and signed the deal. Never regretted it. Number
of defects in over 20 years and close to 80k miles: Zero. Not even a
light bulb filament has failed.


> ... I do not remember what make of automobile

> you mentioned but I do remember thinking that it was a low end model,
> whatever it was.

1997 model Mitsubishi Montero Sport, 2WD, 4-cylinder engine. Built on
the MightMax truck chassis which was important to me.


> ... Is that research?


What I did? Yes, it was.



> ... I just looked up "best SUV" and two

> out of the three best SUV's (for 2017) were Honda so I'd guess that
> you must be driving a Honda. The third choice was a Ford.
>

Mine is model year 1997.

>>
>>> As for a chain drive lasting 5,000 miles, it is perfectly feasible to
>>> build a chain drive that will last more then 5,000 miles. Of course it
>>> will cost more and be rather large and ugly and will, of course be
>>> heavier then a current systems, but it can be built.... if anyone will
>>> buy it.
>>>
>>> What's his Face... the guy that lives in the low rent district of the
>>> Irish Republic, did that a few years back and described how it was
>>> done in loving detail.
>>>
>>> I haven't bought a new chain in some time but I did see a 9 speed
>>> chain with a price tag on it recently and it was 500 baht. In Usian
>>> money that would be about US$15.07.
>>>
>>> Are you telling me that people that sprint around on 1000+ dollar
>>> bicycles worry about a bicycle chain that costs so little money? 1.5%
>>> of the cost of the bike?
>>
>>
>> No, I am talking about people like me who also use bicycles for
>> transportation and not just for sports.
>
> I'm not so sure. You talk a lot about how much you ride a bicycle and
> complain loudly about chain wear while James documents his rides - I
> believe that he is in the 10,000 Mile?Km? region per year, and doesn't
> seem to mention chain wear hardly at all.
>

Probably depends on weight, hills, dust and so on. I am comparing apples
to apples because it roughly the same turf I used my SUV on. Past tense
because last tax year was the first where I dipped well below 1k miles
for my car.

> It would seem logical to assume that you must be riding somewhere in
> the neighborhood of what? 15,000 miles a year? If you never take a
> holiday that is ~40 miles every day.

Only 4000mi, which will increase once I can fully retire. That hope was
kind of dashed in a phone discussion this morning, for now.

[Joerg]

You really are the master of premature conclusion. If you had followed
carefully I own none of those vehicles and never will. There are reasons
why not.

Mine has toothed belts with fibers in them and metal gears. All of it
including the toothed belts looked like new when changed. The only
reason I changed them before 100k miles was reached was the vehicle age
of 15 years. Turned out I could have left them in way longer.

Same with the tires BTW. They had 60k miles, still half the tread but
were well past 10 years. Looked good buy common recommendations state
that means it's time to buy new tires. Try _that_ with a bicycle tire.

[Joerg]

Unless you bought the right car. My Citroen 2CV from 1969 rusted out
from underneath me around 1985 but the engine with 90k miles on it was
still purring and had no oil consumption to speak of. It was carefully
removed from the car at the junk yard and sold for a nice sum of money
to a Norwegian. Meaning I also got good money for a car that would
otherwise have incurred a waste disposal fee.

The only change versus stock was that I replaced many seals with
hand-sawn and polished copper versions. Afterwards it idled as smoothly
as a brand-new Harley, patoomph .. patoomph .. patoomph. The junk yard
owner couldn't believe it. "I only ever saw that stuff on a Bentley".

[Joerg]

The best was my Citroen 2CV, the 16-horse version. Two meshed metal
gears (no belt, no chain). It also had no distributor and no external
belts to drive anything. The generator sat directly on the shaft and the
propeller to cool the air-cooled engine sat in front of that on the same
shaft.

https://www.schaalbouw.nl/citroen/2cveng32.jpg

[Doug Landau]

I've been reading Jung

[Joerg]

Volvo, but with plastic gears there is usually no chain or belt involved:

http://212.247.61.152/EU/ZF0001_bilder/Kundprojekt/motor/024_s.jpg

They could go pretty fast, too, especially after being souped up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqzDCkZh7fM

A friend's parents had a Volvo with the plastic gear. He said when that
failed it was replaced with a metal one by the dealer repair shop and
afterwards the engine was noisier.

[Doug Landau]

Gear drive is noisy. It whines.

[Joerg]

Nope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRCLxG2vQ88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RFs5DIT27U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfhY0JZqbQU

This is the kind I had:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNmnlDeKh0

What sounds like a whine is from the tips of the metal propeller for air
cooling which runs at the full crankshaft speed because it is mounted on
it sans clutch. They didn't shape them in any way because these were
very low-cost cars, it was just the raw stamped-out metal. It could only
be heard with the hood open and not inside the car. Later when the upped
it to 23hp there was a better shaped plastic propeller and that didn't
have a whine. However, that more "powerful" engine broke with one of the
traditions in that it had an alternator that was belt-driven instead of
the DC-generator on the shaft.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

The timing belt replacement schedule is short and people invariably do not get it done on time. The timing chains offer NO problems if they are properly designed meaning heavy enough. Remember they ride in an oil bath and so really don't wear. The only thing that happens to them is that they can stretch from heavy acceleration.

I never treated my cars in a way to wear them out. The cars normally left my hands in at least as good condition and they entered. Most of the time much better. I had a new Ford Ranger double cab for hauling around the bikes and that thing was in the hands of a guy a mile away from my home. It still looked brand new. And when he started that 6 it was quiet as an electric car.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Then you drive conservatively. As I said, most cars do not last long after the 50,000 mile replacement recommendation. Around here the repair shops are full of repairs from broken drive belts. But remember that this is little Mexico.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Frank - please actually read those standards rather than assume they are something of worth.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

If it was really a plastic gear it would have broken the other teeth off as well. It was a plastic coated steel gear. As I said - generally the worst thing that would happen is that the plastic would peel off and clog the oil system. But when new they did have a more quiet operation.

These were the sorts of cars I actually worked on myself. Until I got too important to have black grease stains all over my hands. Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

What I'm trying to figure out is how someone that came from the previous communist East Germany doesn't know what he's talking about when he discusses communism but some jackass who never lived under such a regime can tell you all about it.

[Joerg]

On 2017-09-08 14:51, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

[...]

> ... Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands.
>

Interestingly it gets black when riding lots of roads. On bike paths and
singletrack it doesn't turn black. I use the same lube (White Lightning
Epic Ride) for the road bike and the MTB. On the MTB I don't get black
hands unless I use it for valley errand rides when the road bike is down
for some reason like right now.

Which makes me wonder what all those bike path foes are doing to their
lungs.

[Doug Landau]

You have old-age dementia

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I'm getting the idea that this is a group of a whole lot of old slow driving farts. I can destroy a new motor in one month driving simply by using full power too often. I have seen it done. I don't drive that way so it's never happened to me.

[Doug Landau]

If the noise was acceptable then we wouldn't have timing chains and belts in the 1st place, and passenger-car motors would have used gear drive all along.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

When you hear that "week" as gears are shifted that puts a HUGE strain on the cam gear. Though that gear does look overbuilt all to hell.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I use white lightning as well. But I have a dozen different brands that I've tried and they're all the same.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

And you were referring to American cars and not those weird fereners. American cars from the 70's and 80's didn't use plastic gears.

[Doug Landau]

You said mountain earlier today where you meant mounting, and in lue of where you meant in lieu of, and I'm telling you, when the plastic teeth break off, then the timing chain skips and the car will no longer start.

[sms]

On 9/8/2017 2:44 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> Then you drive conservatively. As I said, most cars do not last long after the 50,000 mile replacement recommendation. Around here the repair shops are full of repairs from broken drive belts. But remember that this is little Mexico.

Very few recent vintage vehicles have a 50,000 mile replacement
recommendation for the timing belt, it's now 90K-130K.

[Frank Krygowski]

There have been quite a few studies showing that bike commuters live
significantly longer than people who use other ways of getting to work.
Those studies have gotten that result consistently, even after
correcting for confounding variables.

So whatever road riders are doing to their lungs, it appears to be
beneficial overall. Cut the "Danger! Danger!" crap, Joerg.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/8/2017 3:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
> O

>
> Same with the tires BTW. They had 60k miles, still half the tread but
> were well past 10 years. Looked good buy common recommendations state
> that means it's time to buy new tires. Try _that_ with a bicycle tire.

60,000 miles on the tires and they still had half the tread left?
Meaning your car tires would last 120,000 miles if they weren't too old?

Joerg, you need someone to edit your fantastic claims, to give them at
least a _hint_ of plausibility.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

Joerg needs to learn that tires have a shelf-life. http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tires-expire-in-six-years/ It's not just about tread wear.

I defended a death case involving tread separation on a tire that had more than half its tread left.

Bicyclists would be outraged if their tire tread fell of and killed them! I can't believe what car owners put up with. They should make car tires as durable as bike tires! And for a dollar. No, make that $.50.

-- Jay Beattie.

[John B.]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 08:32:31 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 6:36:10 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 08:09:27 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>>
>> >On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:11:09 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
>> >> years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
>> >> automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
>> >> effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper".
>> >

>> >Gee then it must be the government forcing manufacturers to make cars safer since the fatalities per passenger mile have dropped so precipitously.
>>
>> You mean like when the government ordered that bumpers must withstand
>> an impact of 5 mph crash into a parked vehicle of the same weight?
>> Which isn't applicable to SUV's, minivans, or pickups trucks; only
>> passenger cars. Apparently trucks and vans never crash.
>>
>> But of course, that was a stupid law imposed in 1971. More thoughtful
>> folks amended it in 1982 (for 1983 model year) and reduced it.
>
>John, my wife's older Keo tells her if a tire is low. Is that by government edict? My car warns me if my gas is getting low so that I won't run out on the freeway. Was that a government edict? We are getting small sedans not only swerving in front of tractor trailers but being struck so hard that they are doing multiple roll-overs with the cars totally unrecognizable afterwards and NO INJURIES to the passengers. What are the government edicts? You have to wear your seatbelts.

Yup. Really necessary devices...

Amazingly I have had access to a motor vehicle WITHOUT the devices you
mention for (lets see....) sixty-nine years, as of this month, and
unbelievably I have never had a flat tire because I failed to check my
tires and I've never "run out of gas on the freeway" (or anywhere
else). My wife, who has only had "her" car for 20 years or so also has
never had a flat tire because she failed to get her tires inflated or
run out of gas.
--
Cheers,

John B.