How long should pedals last?

[sms]

Yesterday one of the pedals on my road bike started making noise. By the
end of the ride there was a large amount of play on the pedal axle. I
was waiting for the whole thing to disintegrate but I made it home.

I ordered some new MKS pedals this morning, but I'm wondering what kind
of mileage I should get out of a set of pedals. These are the original
pedals that came with my Specialized Sirrus. They are plaform pedals,
since I prefer toe-clips to SPD.

Also breaking yesterday was my Nashbar floor pump, after fixing a flat
on my wife's bicycle (and the glue in my REMA patch kit was dried up)
the check valve was flaky and the handle also kept coming out of the
tube section. Pumped up the tires with my old Zefal HPX. Ordered a new
pump along with the pedals.

Ate lunch in Shallow Alto where Apple was having some Apple Pay
promotion at a bunch of stores and restaurants, but of course couldn't
get the lunch deal with my Android phone. This was iDiscrimination.

Came home and there had been a power failure and my Internet was down
because the UPS had blown.

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

My Campag NR pedals are still serviceable after over 40 years. My SPDs are showing a bit of wear after 6 years.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO

[Joerg]

On 2018-03-19 12:46, sms wrote:
> Yesterday one of the pedals on my road bike started making noise. By the
> end of the ride there was a large amount of play on the pedal axle. I
> was waiting for the whole thing to disintegrate but I made it home.
>
> I ordered some new MKS pedals this morning, but I'm wondering what kind
> of mileage I should get out of a set of pedals. These are the original
> pedals that came with my Specialized Sirrus. They are plaform pedals,
> since I prefer toe-clips to SPD.
>

I get around 5000mi out of pedals and it doesn't seem to matter much
what their price was. Then the bearings are gone. Similar with bottom
brackets. I have always lived in or near hilly terrain which probably
doesn't help.

My preferences are big MTB pedals, both on the MTB and on the road bike.
No clips of any kind.

> Also breaking yesterday was my Nashbar floor pump, after fixing a flat
> on my wife's bicycle (and the glue in my REMA patch kit was dried up)
> the check valve was flaky and the handle also kept coming out of the
> tube section. Pumped up the tires with my old Zefal HPX. Ordered a new
> pump along with the pedals.
>
> Ate lunch in Shallow Alto where Apple was having some Apple Pay
> promotion at a bunch of stores and restaurants, but of course couldn't
> get the lunch deal with my Android phone. This was iDiscrimination.
>

I would have left and made sure to let them know why.

> Came home and there had been a power failure and my Internet was down
> because the UPS had blown.

Look at the bright side: It didn't cause a carpet fire.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[jbeattie]

Platforms? Infinite depending on the pedal. I've still got Campy track pedals from the '70s. The four cyclists of the apocalypse will ride in on those things. They last forever like Andrew C. said.

Some of the MKS available at my LBS are pretty robust and others are not. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=1671

The meth-heads left a pair of the MKS Prime Sylvan Touring pedals on my stolen Roubaix. The seals look pretty good, but the bearings and races are undoubtedly cheap. They'll get swapped off the bike once my son gets out of his ortho-boots (the Roubaix is his trainer bike), so I'll never know how long they might last in the wild. I'd guess a couple of years of daily commuting, depending on how often I greased the bearings. I would not expect them to break outright, i.e. snap at the spindle.

Also, most floor pumps are fixable. You just buy a new valve if necessary or fix the old one -- and same with pedals unless the bearings are shot or it uses a failed plastic threaded insert. But most cheap pedals use the old cone/washer/locknut design. http://sheldonbrown.com/images/pedal-bearingIMG_5673.JPG

If your pedals got sloppy, it might just be a loose locknut -- unless they use a single bearing with an end bushing and some crappy threaded plastic piece that gave up.

I have an old Performance Hurricane floor pump with an after-market gauge, hose, and head. It's my favorite pump.

-- Jay Beattie.

[James]

On 20/03/18 07:43, Joerg wrote:
>
> I get around 5000mi out of pedals and it doesn't seem to matter much
> what their price was. Then the bearings are gone. Similar with bottom
> brackets. I have always lived in or near hilly terrain which probably
> doesn't help.
>
> My preferences are big MTB pedals, both on the MTB and on the road bike.
> No clips of any kind.

My Look Keo 2 Max pedals have done probably 50,000km. I think they are
about stuffed. $100 - $150 a pair. I ride plenty of hills and I don't
have little gears. I have inspected the internals once or twice. The
grease is always as new. IOW the seals have not let anything of note pass.

Maybe it is your mountain lions that kill pedals?


Too bad they are not big platform MTB pedals.

--
JS

[AMuzi]

Similar quality but larger bearings in platform pedals are a
standard product:

https://www.sram.com/truvativ/products/truvativ-holzfeller-pedals#sm.001b3eix319gjekapwi1egi9g4z71

Hey Joerg I can mail them to you in the morning!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

I've got a set of Lyotard Mod 23s that I bought around 1975. These
things have zero sealing on the crank side bearings, but they've got
tens of thousands of miles on them. Admittedly, they don't see much rain.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

IIRC, the last pair of those I bought were on sale $59 USD. They're often on sale at Western Bikeworks for some reason.

These are only $49, but I'm not clear on what makes them the limited edition. https://www.performancebike.com/Product2_10053_10001_602263_-1?cm_mmc=Google%20CPC-_-Dynamic%20Search%20Ads-_-Bikes%20&%20Frames-_-DSA_Bikes%20&%20Frames

I actually bought a pair of those for the Synapse, and they work fine.


I did mung a pair of the original Keos -- the release mech on one pedal is all screwed up, and I haven't tried to fix it because I moved to the wider platform -- and it may have to do with excessive wear of a non-repairable plastic part. My first pair of Keo Max fell apart. The body pulled off the spindle. I got those warrantied by the shop and didn't have the problem again. It seemed to be a one-off problem.

My work-horse commuter pedals are SPDs. I ride them in rain or snow half the year, open the pedal, and the grease is pristine. The labyrinth seals are really effective. The release mechanism gets sloppy before the bearings -- at least on the el cheapo M525s.

-- Jay Beattie.

[James]

No mountain lions where you are?

--
JS

[Tosspot]

On 19/03/18 20:46, sms wrote:
> Yesterday one of the pedals on my road bike started making noise. By the
> end of the ride there was a large amount of play on the pedal axle. I
> was waiting for the whole thing to disintegrate but I made it home.
>
> I ordered some new MKS pedals this morning, but I'm wondering what kind
> of mileage I should get out of a set of pedals. These are the original
> pedals that came with my Specialized Sirrus. They are plaform pedals,
> since I prefer toe-clips to SPD.

Shimano PD-M324 SPDs are my preferred weapon of choice, I reckon 7-10
years, or about 20,000 miles all weather riding. I have to say, one set
gave up at around the 5 year mark, which was disappointing.

<snip>

[AMuzi]

The bearings are remarkably durable in those despite
appearances but the top plate rivets wear through at which
point the platform falls off. After wearing out 3 pairs
(10~12 years each) I moved on to a different style. They are
cute, just expensive now.

[Joerg]

On 2018-03-19 17:49, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/19/2018 7:33 PM, James wrote:
>> On 20/03/18 07:43, Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>> I get around 5000mi out of pedals and it doesn't seem to
>>> matter much what their price was. Then the bearings are
>>> gone. Similar with bottom brackets. I have always lived in
>>> or near hilly terrain which probably doesn't help.
>>>
>>> My preferences are big MTB pedals, both on the MTB and on
>>> the road bike. No clips of any kind.
>>
>> My Look Keo 2 Max pedals have done probably 50,000km. I
>> think they are about stuffed. $100 - $150 a pair. I ride
>> plenty of hills and I don't have little gears. I have
>> inspected the internals once or twice. The grease is always
>> as new. IOW the seals have not let anything of note pass.
>>
>> Maybe it is your mountain lions that kill pedals?
>>

No, probably my habit of riding with very low cadence. It's from the old
days when I had to climb hills and only had 42/21. Now I have 42/32 but
often shift down too late or not at all on short uphill stretches.

>>
>> Too bad they are not big platform MTB pedals.
>>
>
> Similar quality but larger bearings in platform pedals are a standard
> product:
>
> https://www.sram.com/truvativ/products/truvativ-holzfeller-pedals#sm.001b3eix319gjekapwi1egi9g4z71
>
>
> Hey Joerg I can mail them to you in the morning!
>

They also make some that look less fancy but might have the same innards
for less:

https://www.sram.com/truvativ/products/truvativ-hussefelt-pedals#sm.0000jrz1ym51gf6qwqy2jxpgnprvh

Ok, when the next ones go I'll try Truvativ. Looks like they belong to
SRAM and those guys seem to make better bearings than others.

Same happens with Shimano freehubs. Mine always develop serious bearing
play after the first 1000mi, then it remains somewhat constant and after
5000mi or so it suddenly gets worse and they are shot. One of my riding
buddies of almost same weight abd riding terrain has SRAM gear and there
it doesn't happen so quickly and that can't have anything to do with
cadence.

[jbeattie]

F*** that! We have real lions. http://www.johnlund.com/Images/Lion-riding-mountain-bike.jpg This is my commute to work: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/6b/b8/0a6bb8a3f30767375f23912509b7762a--bucket-list-extreme-sports.jpg

I wear an orange jacket so cars can see me, even on the trails. The cars are super scary! I have to buy new pedals every six weeks because the bearings cannot stand-up to the gnarliness of my trail riding. You wouldn't understand because you only ride on the road.

-- Jay Beattie.

[sms]

On 3/19/2018 8:34 PM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> IIRC, the last pair of those I bought were on sale $59 USD. They're often on sale at Western Bikeworks for some reason.

Getting really tired of you rubbing in the fact that Portland has both
Universal Cycles AND Western Bikeworks. We have no such stores in the
entire San Francisco Bay Area, and I suspect that the same is true for
most parts of the country.

We have to buy online for most parts and accessories, no one is going to
spend the day driving around looking for a specific part.

I think that these Portland companies should open a store in Cupertino.
We have many tour buses coming into town every day and after they visit
the Apple Visitor Center they could stop at one of these bike shops.

[Frank Krygowski]

A couple times, I've tightened the rivets (which are actually integral
parts of the steel stampings) using a hammer and punch or chisel.

Instead of "expensive now" I thought those were completely unobtainable!

For Christmas a couple years ago, I was given a modern copy, the MKS
Urban Platform pedals. I generously put them on the back of our tandem,
so I haven't actually used them myself. But those aren't expensive, and
the bearings seem well sealed.

Those don't have a ton of miles on them. Our tandem never sees rain,
based on my wife's preference, but I suspect the finish on those would
begin to look grungy after lots of exposure to elements.

Of course, compared to the 40-year-old chromed steel of the Lyotards,
"grungy" is a relative term.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Duane]

Screw that. Riding on the road in Montreal is much gnarlier than those
cowboy wannabees out west.
https://tinyurl.com/y74y3ujn

[jbeattie]

Bike Tires Direct is here, too: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/michelin-pro4-service-course-tire Incredible deal on a great fast tire!

Dirt is too expensive down there for these guys to open a bricks-and-mortar store. They can get the revenue via the interweb and skip the lease. You need some business with a higher margin to justify the rents and labor costs in the Bay Area.

At Universal and Western, I monkey punch my order into the website, get an e-mail that its ready to pick up and then walk or ride over there. It's sort of a hybrid process -- but both shops are making their real money on the internet.

What I like about Western is their head mechanic who is a hoot and makes steel frames and forks on the side. His father was a bicycle fanatic, so he knows all the old lore -- and he is indulgent with my story telling about the good old days. You have to humor the old guys -- who are the ones spending the money. That's what drives shop loyalty in the age of the interweb.

BTW, the real deals up here are from the local manufacturers/distributors like Rapha, Castelli USA and Showers Pass who have some incredible warehouse sales, but you have to go over there and elbow people in confined spaces. The annual Rapha sale is crazy, and I always go with my best bicycling buddy, but I never buy anything because even at half off, its too expensive. I do like standing shoulder to shoulder with people, trying on jackets though. It's like cramming frat brothers into a telephone booth.

My son now works here: https://stagescycling.com/us/, also in PDX of course, and he just orders pro deal or from QBP, and I worry that his consumerism will get the better of him. Do you really need that? But its so cheap! Practically all my best bicycling companions are in the industry, so everyone gets pro deals -- except me, unless I get some buddy deal, and its not worth the effort. You only need so much stuff.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/20/2018 1:12 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> You have to humor the old guys -- who are the ones spending the money. ... [But] You only need so much stuff.

I suspect that's the conundrum for the bike industry. I remember
drooling over items at the bike shop or in the mail order catalogs. But
I had higher priorities for my money instead of splurging on toys.

Now I've got enough money to splurge a bit. But after (ahem) many
decades of living and riding, I began to realize that no gadget or gizmo
or piece of clothing is going to transform my riding experience. No new
bike or component is going to make me ride faster or farther. I look at
advertisement after advertisement and think "I don't need that; I don't
need that..."

I suspect the "sweet spot" customers for the bike business are: A) Young
folks fairly fresh into riding who still hope to become champions, and
B) MAMILs who are hoping to delay their bicycling senescence. The first
group doesn't care about having money, and the second group doesn't mind
spending some of the extra money to retain that glimmer of hope.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

On 3/20/2018 10:12 AM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

>> I think that these Portland companies should open a store in Cupertino.
>> We have many tour buses coming into town every day and after they visit
>> the Apple Visitor Center they could stop at one of these bike shops.
>
> Bike Tires Direct is here, too: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/michelin-pro4-service-course-tire Incredible deal on a great fast tire!

Tires have such huge mark-ups. I know someone at a club whose race team
gets about 60% off retail for tires, which is less than shops can buy
them for. Yet obviously the manufacturer is still not selling at a loss.
It's nice of the manufacturers to support race teams with these
discounts, but I expect that the shops are not thrilled about losing
these high-margin sales.

> Dirt is too expensive down there for these guys to open a bricks-and-mortar store. They can get the revenue via the interweb and skip the lease. You need some business with a higher margin to justify the rents and labor costs in the Bay Area.

We recently lost Chain Reaction's Los Altos store which was a big loss.
I think that the space is still not leased. But it made sense for them,
their customers will still likely buy high-end bikes from their other
store, but not go that far for other items.

But there are places in the Bay Area with low lease rates. But the
owners of the buildings are always looking to redevelop so you are
constantly moving. My wife's office has moved three times already. The
last time they moved the building was knocked down the next day. And the
place they moved to will also be torn down in a few years.

> At Universal and Western, I monkey punch my order into the website, get an e-mail that its ready to pick up and then walk or ride over there. It's sort of a hybrid process -- but both shops are making their real money on the internet.

Fry's is doing that now too. But when you go to pick up your order it's
either incomplete or they can't find it at all and they have to send
someone out to pick it again.

> What I like about Western is their head mechanic who is a hoot and makes steel frames and forks on the side. His father was a bicycle fanatic, so he knows all the old lore -- and he is indulgent with my story telling about the good old days. You have to humor the old guys -- who are the ones spending the money. That's what drives shop loyalty in the age of the interweb.

I think that you need to buy an Amazon Echo Silver to deal with the
stories <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT_gqs5ETk>.

> BTW, the real deals up here are from the local manufacturers/distributors like Rapha, Castelli USA and Showers Pass who have some incredible warehouse sales, but you have to go over there and elbow people in confined spaces. The annual Rapha sale is crazy, and I always go with my best bicycling buddy, but I never buy anything because even at half off, its too expensive. I do like standing shoulder to shoulder with people, trying on jackets though. It's like cramming frat brothers into a telephone booth.
>
> My son now works here: https://stagescycling.com/us/, also in PDX of course, and he just orders pro deal or from QBP, and I worry that his consumerism will get the better of him. Do you really need that? But its so cheap! Practically all my best bicycling companions are in the industry, so everyone gets pro deals -- except me, unless I get some buddy deal, and its not worth the effort. You only need so much stuff.

When my daughter was in college on the on-campus bike co-op ordered
stuff from QBP and sold it to students, or anyone, for just a few
percent over wholesale.

No wonder it's so hard for a regular bicycle shop to make any money
selling parts and accessories and clothing. Between Nashbar, Aliexpress,
Amazon, and almost everyone knowing someone that can get them a deal
from QBP or direct from a manufacturer, it's hopeless for these shops.

Sports Basement is a pretty good store and they periodically offer 20%
off everything in the store which is not a big deal for clothing, but
it's a pretty big deal for complete bicycles. Very nice people there,
without the attitude of some other stores.

[jbeattie]

QBP price is above OTC price at many of the internet retailers, particularly for Shimano.

IMO, as a shop, you either develop an on-line presence or a local presence with a devoted clientele. You can't be the old Schwinn shop of yore.

If you develop a local presence and a devoted clientele, you can charge outrageous prices for wool jerseys. https://store.rivercitybicycles.com/product/river-city-bicycles-merino-navy-vertical-stripe-long-sleeve-10412.htm On sale! $.01 off! There is a huge amount of branding in Portland, e.g. https://www.bikegallery.com/product/bike-gallery-visibility-red-yellow-jersey-by-pearl-izumi-22752.htm

Some shops are cults. http://velocult.com/ or Rivendell on steroids, which is another kind of cult. https://clevercycles.com/brooks-brick-lane-roll-up-panniers-mud Has anyone ever bought one of those? I got my dyno light at Clever. Its about as Bohemian as they get.


-- Jay Beattie.

[Joerg]

On 2018-03-20 12:33, sms wrote:
> On 3/20/2018 10:12 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I think that these Portland companies should open a store in Cupertino.
>>> We have many tour buses coming into town every day and after they visit
>>> the Apple Visitor Center they could stop at one of these bike shops.
>>
>> Bike Tires Direct is here, too:
>> https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/michelin-pro4-service-course-tire
>> Incredible deal on a great fast tire!
>
> Tires have such huge mark-ups. I know someone at a club whose race team
> gets about 60% off retail for tires, which is less than shops can buy
> them for. Yet obviously the manufacturer is still not selling at a loss.
> It's nice of the manufacturers to support race teams with these
> discounts, but I expect that the shops are not thrilled about losing
> these high-margin sales.
>

I prefer Thai tires, they are low cost and IME of good durability.

>> Dirt is too expensive down there for these guys to open a
>> bricks-and-mortar store. They can get the revenue via the interweb
>> and skip the lease. You need some business with a higher margin to
>> justify the rents and labor costs in the Bay Area.
>
> We recently lost Chain Reaction's Los Altos store which was a big loss.
> I think that the space is still not leased. But it made sense for them,
> their customers will still likely buy high-end bikes from their other
> store, but not go that far for other items.
>
> But there are places in the Bay Area with low lease rates. But the
> owners of the buildings are always looking to redevelop so you are
> constantly moving.

That is a show-stopper for most businesses. They absolutely abhor
moving. So do I.


> ... My wife's office has moved three times already. The

> last time they moved the building was knocked down the next day. And the
> place they moved to will also be torn down in a few years.
>

Have they ever asked themselves what their productivity loss due to
those events was in Dollars?

>> At Universal and Western, I monkey punch my order into the website,
>> get an e-mail that its ready to pick up and then walk or ride over
>> there. It's sort of a hybrid process -- but both shops are making
>> their real money on the internet.
>
> Fry's is doing that now too. But when you go to pick up your order it's
> either incomplete or they can't find it at all and they have to send
> someone out to pick it again.
>

Or you get somebody else's returned merchandise ...

It is not hopeless. There is a substantial convenience factor for people
being able to pick up a part instead of not being able to ride for a few
days until the package arrives or having to bow out of a weekend event.

However. Charging $17 for a pair of measly resin brake pads when I can
get good ceramic-based ones in Asia for $2 is not cool. That sort of
mark-up is not warranted and yes, that will cost them customers.

These days a surprising number of cyclists is not able to perform even
basic repairs such as swapping out a pretzeled derailer or mount a new
freehub. They will bring their bike to the shop and then pay whatever
the spare parts are rung up at. They are captive and will thus have to
buy at the company store.

The owner of a newly opened bike shop here in town was smart. He opened
it right next to the singletrack that goes through town. Meaning almost
every MTB rider will see it and MTB riders break stuff all the time. He
is planning to offer bike lockers so people do not need the big truck to
go for a ride (most will absolutly not cycle on roads). He said the fee
would likely include a regular tune-up. That undoubtedly will also bring
in lots of maintenance and repair business, mainly because of the
convenience. "Hey, Chris, can you take a look at the BB on my MTB in
locker #22? It made a screech last night. Install a new one if it's shot".

> Sports Basement is a pretty good store and they periodically offer 20%
> off everything in the store which is not a big deal for clothing, but
> it's a pretty big deal for complete bicycles. Very nice people there,
> without the attitude of some other stores.

[Roger Merriman]

Flat pedals if the bearings can be replaced indefinitely one assumes the
oldest pedals I have are some DMR V8 which I use on the old commute/town
MTB they have lost there paint and is some play in the bearing, at 8k
miles. The CX/MTB they do much less miles but in far worse conditions this
said (DMR V12) I haven’t killed one recently I did have a axel bend on one
of the earlier V12’s but so far the recent ones have been good, again they
tend to loose there paint maybe a few pins.

Roger Merriman.

[Joerg]

On 2018-03-20 15:14, Roger Merriman wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Yesterday one of the pedals on my road bike started making noise. By the
>> end of the ride there was a large amount of play on the pedal axle. I
>> was waiting for the whole thing to disintegrate but I made it home.
>>
>> I ordered some new MKS pedals this morning, but I'm wondering what kind
>> of mileage I should get out of a set of pedals. These are the original
>> pedals that came with my Specialized Sirrus. They are plaform pedals,
>> since I prefer toe-clips to SPD.
>>
>> Also breaking yesterday was my Nashbar floor pump, after fixing a flat
>> on my wife's bicycle (and the glue in my REMA patch kit was dried up)
>> the check valve was flaky and the handle also kept coming out of the
>> tube section. Pumped up the tires with my old Zefal HPX. Ordered a new
>> pump along with the pedals.
>>
>> Ate lunch in Shallow Alto where Apple was having some Apple Pay
>> promotion at a bunch of stores and restaurants, but of course couldn't
>> get the lunch deal with my Android phone. This was iDiscrimination.
>>
>> Came home and there had been a power failure and my Internet was down
>> because the UPS had blown.
>>
>
> Flat pedals if the bearings can be replaced indefinitely one assumes the
> oldest pedals I have are some DMR V8 which I use on the old commute/town
> MTB they have lost there paint and is some play in the bearing, at 8k
> miles. The CX/MTB they do much less miles but in far worse conditions this
> said (DMR V12)

What kills such stuff out here in summer is the continuous dust cloud
from he front wheel. It is often so bad that we have to leave 100ft of
space to the rider up front.

I haven’t killed one recently I did have a axel bend on one
> of the earlier V12’s but so far the recent ones have been good, again they
> tend to loose there paint maybe a few pins.
>

Regarding spindle bending I noticed that they bend slightly within the
first 1000mi but then no further. It can be felt and measured with a
level when turning the cranks. Doesn't bother me much, it was just
surrising when I noticed it the first time.

So far none of them has broken off. A friend broke a Campagnolo crank
arm and that was nasty.