Chains

[John B.]

What exactly is the difference between the Shimano high end (HG 93)
and the low end (HG 53) 9 speed chains? I know that the HG 93 is
labeled "for Ultegra/XT" and the HG 53 is labeled "for Deore & Tiagra"
but what is the actual difference.

Here the 93 is substantially more expensive then the 53 but if this
difference in price provides increased service then it may be worth
it.

I know that anything labeled "Ultegra" is, of course, better. But
better how? Higher speeds? Longer life? Better bragging rights?

Does anyone have any actual data?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Emanuel Berg]

John B. wrote:

> Does anyone have any actual data?

What does it say on the box? Should have a pin
length of 6.6-6.8 mm (1/4-9/32")...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

[John B.]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:33:32 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any actual data?
>
>What does it say on the box? Should have a pin
>length of 6.6-6.8 mm (1/4-9/32")...

??? As I said, Shimano HG 53 and Shimano HG 93 chains. Both described
by Shimano as 9 speed chains.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

Never used a HG53 chain but my LBS onced said that he takes a HG53 chain from a new sold bike, throw it away and put a better one on just to prevent warranty issues....

Lou

[Emanuel Berg]

John B. wrote:

>> What does it say on the box? Should have
>> a pin length of 6.6-6.8 mm (1/4-9/32")...
>
> ??? As I said, Shimano HG 53 and Shimano HG
> 93 chains. Both described by Shimano as 9
> speed chains.

It is the external width of a 9S chain, all
brands. [1]

What does it say on the boxes, for the HG 53
and HG 93, except for the
Deore/Tiagra/Ultegra/XT stuff?


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_chain

[Duane]

I think my last bike came with an HG93. Anyway, it looks like the main
difference is the plating.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/shimano-xt-hg93-9-speed-chain/rp-prod656

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/shimano-deore-hg53-9-speed-chain/rp-prod6053

Oddly, CRC has the 93 priced a bit lower.

[John B.]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:33:19 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. wrote:
>
>>> What does it say on the box? Should have
>>> a pin length of 6.6-6.8 mm (1/4-9/32")...
>>
>> ??? As I said, Shimano HG 53 and Shimano HG
>> 93 chains. Both described by Shimano as 9
>> speed chains.
>
>It is the external width of a 9S chain, all
>brands. [1]

Are you saying that Shimano may be selling a 9 speed chain that
doesn't fit?

>
>What does it say on the boxes, for the HG 53
>and HG 93, except for the
>Deore/Tiagra/Ultegra/XT stuff?
>

It says that it is a 9 speed chain :-)


>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_chain
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 1:17:12 PM UTC+1, duane wrote:
> I think my last bike came with an HG93. Anyway, it looks like the main
> difference is the plating.
>
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/shimano-xt-hg93-9-speed-chain/rp-prod656
>
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/shimano-deore-hg53-9-speed-chain/rp-prod6053
>
> Oddly, CRC has the 93 priced a bit lower.

There's weirdness like this in many manufacturers' lines. Huge internet retailers select some item from a manufacturer's list as a best buy, buy a quantity so hew yuge that they have to schedule deliveries through the year, and get a deepdeepdeep discount, whereas of a lesser item from the same line they buy relatively few, and thus pay more per unit, and thus price the lesser item higher.

Another chain example: The right and most economical chain to fit to a Rohloff installation is undoubtedly the KMC Z8 in one of its variations (depending on whether you have a Chainglider fitted or whether you want a shiny open chain), a single speed chain that doesn't have a whole lot of side play built in because it isn't necessary. That's the theory anyway. The equivalent derailleur chain, with trickier construction to give the necessary flexibility for derailleur use, is the X8. However, for years now, it has been pretty obvious that CRC, whose head office is up the road here, buys the X8 in bulk and comparatively few of the Z8, because, generally speaking, and especially at big sales, the X8 is cheaper from them, as from most other really big dealers, than the Z8 -- if at any moment you can even order a Z8 from them.

I posted a worked cost-benefit analysis at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11956.msg86976#msg86976
The Z7 RB is used in the table instead of the Z8 because that was the one we could get a price for. The Z8 RB is better but would be even less economical.

AJ
Of course it's bizarre to obsess about the pennies that chain wear costs, but I'm a bicyclist

[Emanuel Berg]

John B. wrote:

>> It is the external width of a 9S chain,
>> all brands.
>

> Are you saying that Shimano may be selling
> a 9 speed chain that doesn't fit?

I'm saying that's all the data I have on
9S chains. "All brands" includes Shimano,
assuming the information is correct that is.
Check with a calipers or a micrometer...

>> What does it say on the boxes, for the HG 53
>> and HG 93, except for the
>> Deore/Tiagra/Ultegra/XT stuff?
>
> It says that it is a 9 speed chain :-)

Oh, c'mon now! Even on the boxes to my single
speed standard bike chains it says,
e.g., Ventura 1/2x1/8" 112L, that it comes with
a master link, a side plate and a retaining
clip, and more...

[John B.]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:06:39 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

I Don't understand why you keep asking for information that is
unnecessary. Shimano markets a 9 speed chain, in two different models,
and have for years and years, and the chains have, over the years, fit
well and worked well with the Shimano 9 speed system.
Why do you require more information.

Are you the sort of person that demands his new bicycle come complete
with a placard that states it has two wheels?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[incredulous]

OP has asked reasonable question about chain differences. ‘Data’ could include playing, corrosion resistance, tolerances, expected durability, weight, etc.
Lighter weight, for cyclists, would be an obvious feature. An after-market chain I bought made exactly that claim, and the plates were indeed carved out.

De MostiX
PDX

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

True but on the other hand why ask this question because except for differences everybody can see (plating, punched holes, hollow pins) all other properties are a black box for most of us (hardness, tolerances durability). Especially for dirt cheap 9 speed chain even the price difference of the'expensive'ones doesn't justify more than a minute of thought IMO. My advice, if cost is an issue for somebody, buy the cheapest one. If the life time is short than you got what you paid for, if is the same as for the more expensive one than you are lucky. You cant loose.'

Lou, to much time spent on chains and lubing chains.

[Emanuel Berg]

John B. wrote:

> I Don't understand why you keep asking for
> information that is unnecessary.

If it isn't on the box, either there is no
difference, or the manufacturer has made a poor
job. Only that doesn't sound like Shimano given
what we know how they are with documenting
their products!

One way of finding out if it is stated on the
box, is to write down *everything* and
then compare.

If this doesn't reveal the difference, the next
step would be to get both chains, open the
boxes, and compare them visually as well as
with tools.

If one can find a difference, one can write to
Shimano an tell them to put it on the box.
If one cannot find it, one can write and ask.
If they can't find it either, one can say they
should put on the boxes that the chain is
functionally identical to another model - or
better yet, drop the two distinctions
altogether and merge the products into one.

[John B.]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:12 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

You seem to be missing the crux of the problem. Shimano has been in
business since 1921 and has never sold me, at least, anything that
didn't fit or didn't work. Why now, after of 97 years should I write
Shimano to demand that they print more data on the box that the chain
comes in?

Who cares. I wanted a 9 speed chain, they sold me a 9 speed chain, and
the 9 speed chain works on a 9 speed bicycle. What more could anyone
ever want?.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 4/28/2018 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
> Shimano has been in
> business since 1921 and has never sold me, at least, anything that
> didn't fit or didn't work.

They sold me an aerodynamic water bottle back in the 1980s. I was deeply
disappointed. It didn't seem to make me any faster at all.

Not that I've lost much sleep over that...


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

That's the trouble with all these go-fast attachments. You buy them
and install them and goodness, you don't go any faster. And of
course... it's their fault.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

You're not doing it right:


http://www.chutingstar.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/g/o/gofast_4.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971