Habanero Ti

[deaco...@gmail.com]

So I bought one today road bike Team issue 58 cm. Riding carbon last 8 years and steel before that. I am hoping to catch the steel road ride that is an upgrade. The carbon bike is fine but seems 2 carbons are same thing, so give the TI a ride.

Anyone think this could be nuts? I do but hey.....

Deacon Mark

[Doug Landau]

Nope, not nuts, I don't think. I've been watching CL for one.

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

If you think that is nuts I'm completely crazy having a CF, Ti and Alu roadbike. You will discover that Ti doesn't have magic riding qualities. It just doesn't need a paintjob and stays like new forever. Don't put parts on it that can rust. That would be strange.

Lou

[AMuzi]

Agreed.
Titanium left exposed to air covers itself in stable
titanium oxide but in contact with other metals, especially
with an electrolyte (such as road salt in water), Ti is
highly reactive. Use anti-seize molybdenum paste for
assembly of fasteners and clamps in/on Titanium.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[deaco...@gmail.com]

I don't expect it to have magic riding qualities but hoping it will be even soother than my CF. I remember my old steel Schwinn Traveler fro about 1991 was aqua green. Frankly road pretty good much better than any Al bike. Not as cutting fast and nimble as my CF but not harsh.

The whole Ti frame is different in Geometry so I wonder how that will be.

Deacon Mark.

[Tim McNamara]

Mark Hickey's bikes are nicely designed and made- the cycling parallel
of an Eastman archtop guitar, perhaps. He hasn't been around Usenet for
years now, unfortunately. He was always good for a spirited discussion;
he and I usually disagreed politically but he was smart and consistent
in his thinking. I thought he had a lot of integrity. His thinking
about bike frame design makes a lot of sense to me. I've seen a couple
of them locally and their owners were very happy with them and with
their experience of dealing with Mark.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:

At the age of that bike you probably won't have any worries but many ti bikes are built with improper welds that will crack. I said this to people several times and they have told me I'm FOS.

But two years ago one of our fast riders showed up with a Linskey and I told him about that and the whole group made a joke of me on the entire ride.

The following week I pointed out a crack on his downtube. Luckily with a new bike he could get a replacement frame.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 2:18:28 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> At the age of that bike you probably won't have any worries but many ti bikes are built with improper welds that will crack. I said this to people several times and they have told me I'm FOS.
>
> But two years ago one of our fast riders showed up with a Linskey and I told him about that and the whole group made a joke of me on the entire ride.
>
> The following week I pointed out a crack on his downtube. Luckily with a new bike he could get a replacement frame.

So you are saying Lynskey, and Litespeed back when Lynskey started the company, don't know how to weld titanium? I have a Litespeed Tuscany, made before Lynskey sold the company, and I have not noticed any cracks or defects. But then I don't inspect the frame with a magnifying glass before and after every ride. I just ride the bike, and it rides fine every time. Many, many thousands of miles on the frame. Can't say whether your story is true or not. But I suspect every manufacturer has a defect every once in awhile. Even Rolls Royces and Rolexes need warranty work once in awhile. Its not like an anvil, where essentially nothing can break.

[Frank Krygowski]

But someday, when we have carbon fiber anvils...

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

I don't know about Lynskey and Litespeed but welding titanium isn't
some sort of esoteric skill. It is just another welding skill that
probably thousands of people have. Perhaps unfortunately few qualified
aircraft welders are going to quit their top dollar job to build
bicycle frames :-)

(and yes, I do know what I am talking about as I certified as a USAF
Titanium welder in 1972, along with aluminum and stainless.)

In fact, all of the stories you hear about the problems in welding, or
brazing, bike frames are really only stories told by, what are
essentially, unqualified people.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

:-) Actually anvils do break from time to time :-) Almost any
blacksmithing group will have some wild stories about repairing anvils
:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tosspot]

You can repair anvils!? I'd have left it out back and waited for a
meteorite strike...

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 8:18:28 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > So I bought one today road bike Team issue 58 cm. Riding carbon last 8 years and steel before that. I am hoping to catch the steel road ride that is an upgrade. The carbon bike is fine but seems 2 carbons are same thing, so give the TI a ride.
> >
> > Anyone think this could be nuts? I do but hey.....
> >
> > Deacon Mark
>
> At the age of that bike you probably won't have any worries but many ti bikes are built with improper welds that will crack. I said this to people several times and they have told me I'm FOS.
>
> But two years ago one of our fast riders showed up with a Linskey and I told him about that and the whole group made a joke of me on the entire ride.

Mmm, a buddy shows up with a new bike and this is the first thing you come up with? You are a fun guy to talk to....

>
> The following week I pointed out a crack on his downtube. Luckily with a new bike he could get a replacement frame.

I better stay away from you ;-)

Lou

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Are you a dumbass? Do you think that you can see overhardening because of welding? Do you think that you can detect it except AFTER the failure? The crack I pointed out was a couple of inches long. This occurs very rapidly and not in some slow motion like some asshole trying to protect his reputation wants to pretend. If your bike hasn't broken in a year or so it probably won't but Ti bikes are famous for cracking longitudinally from welds. Even my Colnago BiTitan cracked along one of it's downtubes. And since I had bought it new I was just SOL. These cracks are rarely dangerous as far as I've seen but they would grow to be dangerous if you continued riding them.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Lou, so you think he should have gone unwarned? Do you think that I shouldn't have showed that crack to him and let him ride a 40 mph downhill with us as well?

[John B.]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:32:14 +0100, Tosspot <Frank...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Ah, but you are just exposing your ignorance of the subject. You see,
to a blacksmith an anvil is a very, one might almost say essential,
part of his equipment, much the same as, say wheels, to a bicyclist.

So yes, re-facing an anvil, for example, is a common subject in the
blacksmithing world.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 10:47:03 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Even my Colnago BiTitan cracked along one of it's downtubes. And since I had bought it new I was just SOL. These cracks are rarely dangerous as far as I've seen but they would grow to be dangerous if you continued riding them.

??? I'll assume SOL means "Sh-t Out of Luck". Right? Anyway, if you bought the Colnago bike NEW, as you state, why couldn't you get warranty work on it? Most warranties are for the original owner. And extend for years/forever if its a manufacturing defect. Why didn't you just take your bought NEW bike back to the shop and say give me a warranty replacement? It sounds like truth and your stories don't add up correctly.

[sms]

Well apparently those "lifetime warranties" are not so clear. The
manufacturer can claim that the frame wore out rather than the breakage
being due to a manufacturing defect. But I suspect that he just
mis-wrote, and meant to say "And since I had bought it used I was just SOL."

[deaco...@gmail.com]

So on this Ti do I need anti seize instead of grease and should I do a yearly pull of crank and BB. I don't do it with my bikes now but Ti can cause galv corrosion with Al. I don't think these is any al on the bike as such.

[John B.]

Titanium is quite far down the galvanic tables and generally speaking
tends to become the cathode (most protected) part of a galvanic
corrosion circuit. The Anode (least protected) is the part that is
eroded away.

The logical thing to do is to protect any major or long term threaded
parts with a anti seize of some sort. I have installed stainless parts
into aluminum a famous corrosion sandwich in the presence of an
electrolyte), using an anti seize, and removed them several years
later with no evidence of corrosion.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 3/19/2017 8:54 PM, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> So on this Ti do I need anti seize instead of grease and should I do a yearly pull of crank and BB. I don't do it with my bikes now but Ti can cause galv corrosion with Al. I don't think these is any al on the bike as such.
>

Yes, use anti seize paste where another metal touches titanium.
No aluminum? How about head cups?
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/PARDOOX.JPG

PLus BB cups, FD clamp, seatpost and so on.

[deaco...@gmail.com]

Yes I was aware of those points but it does clear it up. Has external headset most of the bikes these days do not but can I assume that is a good thing? Certainly no press fit BB s for me

Deacon Mark

[Doug Landau]

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 10:20:05 AM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't expect it to have magic riding qualities but hoping it will be even soother than my CF. I remember my old steel Schwinn Traveler fro about 1991 was aqua green. Frankly road pretty good much better than any Al bike. Not as cutting fast and nimble as my CF but not harsh.
>
> The whole Ti frame is different in Geometry so I wonder how that will be.

Middle of the road. He felt strongly about it.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Interview/Hot_as_a_Habanero_3066.html

[Doug Landau]

> Nope, not nuts, I don't think. I've been watching CL for one.

This'n looks a little small
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/bik/5996915344.html

[AMuzi]

What's a Delphi Fracker? A chain snaplink or special
handlebar plug or an SUV repellant spray?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 5:49:22 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
/

> ??? I'll assume SOL means "Sh-t Out of Luck". Right? Anyway, if you bought the Colnago bike NEW, as you state, why couldn't you get warranty work on it? Most warranties are for the original owner. And extend for years/forever if its a manufacturing defect. Why didn't you just take your bought NEW bike back to the shop and say give me a warranty replacement? It sounds like truth and your stories don't add up correctly.

That was a misprint. I did NOT buy it new. In fact, I don't think I've ever bought a new bike frame.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Andrew - what do you think of anti-sieze in a bottom bracket?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

John, you said you were accredited at welding titanium. As I recall you weren't supposed to lift off a weld and then restart immediately. You were supposed to let it cool down first. On the original ti frames you could see this because they always had to reposition the frame in the welding stand. But now that they grind the welds down smooth you can't see where to watch for problems anymore.

[AMuzi]

For threads or press-in against titanium it's standard
practice and highly recommended.

"in" a BB, used as a lubricant for bearings? That's dumb,
don't do it.