DEAR GOD THEYRE TEACHING CHILDREN TO PLAY IN THE STREET sweet jesus

[DougC]

Saw this article on CNN/US just now, about kids riding bicycles to
school (or not) and the reasons for that.

The factoid that caught my eye was that it claims that in 2013, the
average US cost to bus a kid to school was $914.

US grade school years typically run 175 to 180 days long, so that works
out to about $5.07 a day.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/25/technology/culture/bike-student-transportation/index.html?iid=ob_article_videocrpool

Bus cost statistics the article links to:
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=67

That $5/day is actually not bad I think. The municipal buses charge $2
to get on, but those routes are hardly ideal for student use. The
average cross-town cost of a taxi ride is like $22 and an Uber is about
half that.

-------

The article's slant seems to be that bike-sharing programs are a really
totally awesome thing. I have not a lot of faith in that assessment --
but anyway.

At least a school bus works in (almost) any weather. I never seem to see
many people bicycling during heavy rains or snow.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Around here the parents are generally responsible for bringing their kids to the grade schools. With the coming of bike lanes on the local main streets the speed of the traffic has been reduced to the point where parents aren't afraid to cross the streets with their children.

The Jr. High and higher grades are generally surrounded by bike lanes and children of normal intelligence can safely ride bikes to school. Now up in the richy rich neighborhoods is where school buses and then high school age kids with new expensive cars are.

[jbeattie]

It's nice to get some good news about kids and bicycling.

-- Jay Beattie.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Even better news - out on the bicycle trails and much to Joerg's distress children are becoming more and more common. Around here they are almost entirely Hispanics but then so is the majority of the local population. And even better news - I'm seeing black guys in full kit and nice bikes killing me on the climbs.

White middle class men are still the majority but once started the change is hard to stop.

[Duane]

jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 6:40:47 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 6:06:22 AM UTC-7, Doug Cimperman wrote:
>>> Saw this article on CNN/US just now, about kids riding bicycles to
>>> school (or not) and the reasons for that.
>>>
>>> The factoid that caught my eye was that it claims that in 2013, the
>>> average US cost to bus a kid to school was $914.
>>>
>>> US grade school years typically run 175 to 180 days long, so that works
>>> out to about $5.07 a day.
>>>
>>> http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/25/technology/culture/bike-student-transportation/index.html?iid=ob_article_videocrpool
>>>
>>> Bus cost statistics the article links to:

>>> https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?idg

>>>
>>> That $5/day is actually not bad I think. The municipal buses charge $2
>>> to get on, but those routes are hardly ideal for student use. The
>>> average cross-town cost of a taxi ride is like $22 and an Uber is about
>>> half that.
>>>
>>> -------
>>>
>>> The article's slant seems to be that bike-sharing programs are a really
>>> totally awesome thing. I have not a lot of faith in that assessment --
>>> but anyway.
>>>
>>> At least a school bus works in (almost) any weather. I never seem to see
>>> many people bicycling during heavy rains or snow.
>>
>> Around here the parents are generally responsible for bringing their
>> kids to the grade schools. With the coming of bike lanes on the local
>> main streets the speed of the traffic has been reduced to the point
>> where parents aren't afraid to cross the streets with their children.
>>
>> The Jr. High and higher grades are generally surrounded by bike lanes
>> and children of normal intelligence can safely ride bikes to school. Now
>> up in the richy rich neighborhoods is where school buses and then high
>> school age kids with new expensive cars are.
>
> It's nice to get some good news about kids and bicycling.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

They installed a bike path in my town that parallels the train line and
Main Street. This gets kids from my subdivision to the grammar school.
The school had to install more bike racks. Works well, except for two
things. First, kids don’t ride in the snow and it snows here.

The second thing is that I used to use this road to get to the main road on
my way to the office. By installing the bike path the traffic lanes are
narrower. One lane each way. I’m allowed by law to not use the bike path
but when people are rushing to the train station in the morning and I’m
only doing 30 they get mad. Especially since their taxes just paid for
this lovely bike path. I can’t do 30 on a bike path crowded with kids so
I take a different less pleasant route.

Worth it I guess to see kids on bikes. And you can xc ski on the path in
the winter. Lol. Until they start plotting it...

--
duane

[Duane]

That should be lentil they start plowing it”

--
duane

[Duane]

Lol. I give up. Auto correct wins.

--
duane

[Frank Krygowski]

There certainly are motorists who are less patient when sidepaths or bike lanes
exist. I've heard "Get on the bike path" while riding on a quiet country road,
miles from the nearest path.

But my favorite facilities for kids are shortcut bike/ped paths into schools.
We have four schools within our suburban village (well, one just closed down)
and each one has a "back way" path that kids can and do use. I also know of
several schools in nearby suburbs that have similar paths.

Unfortunately, the newest schools in our area don't have those. I think there
are two major reasons. One is that the tendency is now to build schools with
large "campuses" (IOW, big lawns that need mowing) out in the cornfields. Kids
tend to live much further from these schools. Second, if there is a housing
development nearby, it tends to be a "modern" maze of cul-de-sacs, designed to
dissuade through travel and to provide lots of high-status lots at dead ends.
Buyers want to see only their neighbors on the same 10 house cul-de-sac.
A path that would allow "those kids" from the next cul-de-sac would be
frowned on.

BTW: I'm betting the $900 average bus cost is heavily influenced by bus routes
out in the sticks. What with mega schools and huge school districts, buses
in rural areas can have very long routes indeed. The less the population
density, the higher the bus costs.

A partial solution would be to retain small neighborhood schools. And indeed,
our village voted down a recent school levy, something unheard of previously.
Why? Because the school board wanted to stop using the historic buildings here
in the walkable village, and build a modern new campus about three miles out
towards the cornfields.

- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

The town I grew up in had a similar problem years ago and the excuse
for the large area needed for the new high school was "to make parking
lots". I was long gone and far away by then but conversations with my
parents seemed to indicate that the average high school kid drove a
car to school and the parking lot really was needed.

When I went to school the ruling was that no student was allowed to
drive a car to school but I suspect that the town was much smaller in
size in those days... the house I grew up in was the last house on a
country road when I lived there. Now there are housing developments
stretching at least 2 miles further on that road.

Walking a mile to school is one thing, three miles is another :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/9/2017 9:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> The town I grew up in had a similar problem years ago and the excuse
> for the large area needed for the new high school was "to make parking
> lots". I was long gone and far away by then but conversations with my
> parents seemed to indicate that the average high school kid drove a
> car to school and the parking lot really was needed.

This story is probably a rerun, but: Many years ago, we met a lovely
family during our bike tour in Ireland. Their young girl was my
daughter's age, and eventually she visited us for a week or so. She was
then about 20 years old IIRC.

As we drove her from the airport to our home, we passed the high school
my daughter had attended, so I pointed it out. She asked "But what are
all the cars there?" When I told her that most of them were driven by
students, she was astonished.

Living in Dublin, she had absolutely no plans to get a driver's license
in the near future.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

I suspect that if one lives in a great many cities, world wide, that
may be little sense in owning a car (or a driver's license). And I
suspect that the older cities are the ones that don't require a car.
Boston MA had a subway system in 1901, New York City was about 3 years
later and London was 34 years earlier. Tokyo certainly had a good
public transportation system when I was there in the early 1950's.

On the other hand, the last time I visited the town I grew up in
(small country town in up-state New Hampshire), there was no public
transportation at all.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I've had the autocorrect change the entire meaning of a sentence. Now which of you wants self-driving cars?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

The kids here simply cannot ride a bike to school. Within an hour the entire load of bikes would have been stolen. And probably with the police sitting there in a patrol car.