Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters

[Andrew Chaplin]

As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in spots.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Sir Ridesalot]

Is there still campig at Le Breton Flats?

Cheers

[Andrew Chaplin]

Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
news:fe3cc524-eb66-4523...@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 10:27:24 AM UTC-4, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
>> As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in
>> spots. http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding
>

> Is there still campig at Le Breton Flats?

Prpbably not, as it is being redeveloped. Condos are going up everywhere,
and an arena is to be built to move the Ottawa Senators closer to the
downtown.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/LebretonFlatsPark

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 14:24:13 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Chaplin
<ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:

>As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in spots.
>http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding

Water is not a problem:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=water+bicycle&tbm=isch>

This looks like a quick and easy bolt on solution:
<http://inhabitat.com/transportation-tuesday-the-diy-floating-water-bike/>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 10:27:24 AM UTC-4, Andrew Chaplin wrote:

> As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in spots.
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding

This happened across the river from Lebreton Flats:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-cyclist-ottawa-river-1.4086477.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Too bad. The video is taken with the camera pointed pretty close to the fronttire but the person says it's a downhill where you can hit 40 KPH (25 mph) pretty quickly. I wonder if the dead bicyclsit had swereved to miss another bicyclist(s) coming the opposite way?

Cheers

[jbeattie]

Looking at the video, that seems plausible -- and terribly sad if they did not stop.

-- Jay Beattie.

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 2:48:58 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 14:24:13 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Chaplin
> <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:
>
> >As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in spots.
> >http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding
>
> Water is not a problem:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=water+bicycle&tbm=isch>
>
> This looks like a quick and easy bolt on solution:
> <http://inhabitat.com/transportation-tuesday-the-diy-floating-water-bike/>
>

Much of the Ottawa River around here is white water aggravated by spring run-
off. You would not get me out on one of those, save on those stretches of the
Rideau that are part of the canal system, and the Ottawa below Parliament Hill.

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 6:27:12 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:59:27 PM UTC-4, ab.ch...@rogers.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 10:27:24 AM UTC-4, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
> > > As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in spots.
> > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding
> >
> > This happened across the river from Lebreton Flats:
> > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-cyclist-ottawa-river-1.4086477.
> > --
>

> Too bad. The video is taken with the camera pointed pretty close to the
> fronttire but the person says it's a downhill where you can hit 40 KPH (25
> mph) pretty quickly. I wonder if the dead bicyclsit had swereved to miss
> another bicyclist(s) coming the opposite way?
>

Wildlife is more likely than another cyclist. Another cyclist would have heard
the crash or splash and would have stopped to investigate, I would think.

[Duane]

Or a car coming from the other direction and taking the turn too wide.

Maybe he just lost it at that turn. If he didn't know what to expect he
may have gone too wide and caught the edge of the road.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Perhaps if your bicycle had freeboard to handle the waves?
<https://rlv.zcache.com/water_bicycle_cycle_cycling_on_water_vintage_art_postcard-rffb59aed385b47e7ba4df21a68f9d29a_vgbaq_8byvr_630.jpg>

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:07:15 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:

> On 27/04/2017 9:57 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 6:27:12 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:59:27 PM UTC-4, ab.ch...@rogers.com wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 10:27:24 AM UTC-4, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
> >>>> As Spring unfolds in Ottawa, it is getting in the way of my riding in spots.
> >>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/NCCflooding
> >>>
> >>> This happened across the river from Lebreton Flats:
> >>> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-cyclist-ottawa-river-1.4086477.
> >>> --
> >>
> >> Too bad. The video is taken with the camera pointed pretty close to the
> >> fronttire but the person says it's a downhill where you can hit 40 KPH (25
> >> mph) pretty quickly. I wonder if the dead bicyclsit had swereved to miss
> >> another bicyclist(s) coming the opposite way?
> >>
> > Wildlife is more likely than another cyclist. Another cyclist would have heard
> > the crash or splash and would have stopped to investigate, I would think.
> >
>

> Or a car coming from the other direction and taking the turn too wide.
>
> Maybe he just lost it at that turn. If he didn't know what to expect he
> may have gone too wide and caught the edge of the road.
>

It is a multi-use path, so no cars. It is quite well laid out, for the most
part. I ride it, but usually eastbound.

[Joerg]

This route can be viewed from high up on one of our local MTB trails:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1GPjGKf1o

Lots of boaters have died in the American River.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Duane]

Ah. I guess I saw the paramedics and assumed it was a road. I haven't
been to that exact place but my bike club has a weekend trip in
Gatineau, usually the St. John Baptiste weekend. We ride there and back
for the weekend and on the Saturday do Gatineau park. In the park there
are some turns that you have to be careful with but it's mostly due to
the cars.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Those guys were taking one hell of a chance getting that close to flooded trees aka in white water paddling circles as "Strainers" also know as death traps. You broach against one of those and flip with the opening upstream and you'll never get out with that force of water pushing against you. Getting caught by a tree strainer is a good way to die by drowning.

Cheers

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:14:08 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>This route can be viewed from high up on one of our local MTB trails:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1GPjGKf1o
>Lots of boaters have died in the American River.

Yes, but no bicyclists have died in the American River, which suggests
that cycling is safer than boating.

[Joerg]

There were two recent deaths on that part of the river due to foot
entrapment. Must be terrible being underwater and not able to free yourself.

Another serious danger is that there may be big rocks and stuff now
submerged because of the high water level and the "rolling boil" can
smack you onto one of those.

I have kayaked on it but only at a normal water level and not in any
risky rapids. Somehow kayaking whitewater isn't my thing anymore. When I
was young and invincible in my early 20's that was different. Sometimes
I still relive one episode in my dreams and wake up. Back then I thought
it was nothing.

Nobody wanted to pilot the beer kayak so I raised my hand. "Are you
experienced enough?" ... "Yeah! Sure!" (I wasn't). It was a two-seater
with lots of sixpacks stashed up front. A large plastic bag and a series
connection of pickling glass rubber bands were supposed to seal off the
front seat area. Were the sixpacks strapped down? Nah, of course not.
You had to kind of hold them up front with your feet. After having
negotiated some tough stuff I thought, hey, this is easy, got a little
careless and whoops ... OH S..T! Upside down, saw a couple of big
boulders fly by underwater, finally could roll it back up. Needless to
say, all that sans helmets.

Then I did a really stupid thing. Most of the sixpacks had gone into the
river and I wasn't going to give up on those. So I parked the kayak
after dumping out the water, ran up the hill, swam out into the
whitewater, dove around, repeat. All the while lots of other kayakers
where zipping by me left and right. Surprisingly I am still here :-)

[Joerg]

On 2017-04-27 10:03, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 08:14:08 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This route can be viewed from high up on one of our local MTB trails:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1GPjGKf1o
>> Lots of boaters have died in the American River.
>
> Yes, but no bicyclists have died in the American River, which suggests
> that cycling is safer than boating.
>

It probably is around here. Although I did see one downhill turn on the
singletrack up the hill where there were long scrape marks, paint
residue on rocks, pieces of a helmet and then more scrape marks over a
rocky embankment towards the river. That rider didn't go in the drink
but must have been hurt. Hopefully not worse. On the west side of Salmon
Falls Bridge MTB riders have died. There are some nasty cliffs. At the
worst there is a sign to walk the bike but I still see people riding it.

Then there's bullets.

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/eldorado-hills/riders-encounter-gunfire-on-popular-trail/99344281

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 11:18:23 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:

It looks as if Louis Deschênes was on his way to work at Place de Portage and would have been eastbound from Aylmer. It is, therefore, a bit of a puzzler, as the approach to that curve is not that challenging. I think this is the location of the incident:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4195424,-75.7339274,738m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&hl=en.

[Duane]

Especially if he was on his commute. You would assume he was familiar
with the route.

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 8:23:04 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Snipped

> > It looks as if Louis Deschênes was on his way to work at Place de Portage and would have been eastbound from Aylmer. It is, therefore, a bit of a puzzler, as the approach to that curve is not that challenging. I think this is the location of the incident:
> > https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4195424,-75.7339274,738m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&hl=en.
> >
>
> Especially if he was on his commute. You would assume he was familiar
> with the route.

I still think it might have been him trying to avoid hitting someone or something like a dog on the path.

In Toronto Canada I used to commute via the parks paths in a number of parks that connected to each other. I was very familiar with the routes but sometimes I'd have to brake hard or take evasive action to avoid hitting an early morning jogger or dog walker.

There sure are a lot of unanswered questions to this incident in Ottawa though.

Cheers

[Duane]

I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90
I had to brake for an alligator.

Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never
know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du
Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but
doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out.

[AMuzi]

John Dacey linked photos of alligators spotted while cycling
here years ago. Scary!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote:
>>
>
> I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90
> I had to brake for an alligator.

We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia.

> Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never
> know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du
> Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but
> doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out.

A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an
easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went
black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then
resume riding feeling fine.

Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his
chest.

I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are
mislabeled as bicycle fatalities.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Joerg]

Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences,
a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't
perceived as too important.

Different with car accidents. There a lot of effort is expended to find
out what the primary cause was. The son of a neighbor is seriously
walking-disabled ever since his truck was hit head-on by a big sedan
which had veered onto the wrong side of the highway. Turned out the
driver had a cardiac event. He died at the scene or most likely upon impact.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 4/28/2017 1:44 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY
>>> 90 I had to brake for an alligator.
>>
>> We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia.
>>
>>> Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never
>>> know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du
>>> Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but
>>> doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out.
>>
>> A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an
>> easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went
>> black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then
>> resume riding feeling fine.
>>
>> Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his
>> chest.
>>
>> I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are
>> mislabeled as bicycle fatalities.
>>
>
> Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences,
> a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't
> perceived as too important.

I haven't seen evidence that bicycling fatalities are notoriously poorly
reported. I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed
even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was
actually a pedestrian when hit.

Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit
excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury
worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a
"serious injury." That's excessive.

And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a
major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though
bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B Slocomb]

A few studies have been made of bicycle - auto collisions. The CHP did
a study in L.A. county a few years ago and determined that more then
half of the collisions, where cause could be determined, was the
cyclists fault. The primary cause was the cyclist not complying with
traffic regulations. There have also been a number done in other
States that seem to agree with the CHP study.

I've always wondered why the "Danger! Danger!" group never mentions
"Obey the Law! Obey the Law!"

[Joerg]

You might live in a different universe. Even a killed local cyclist is
barely worth the space of about half a postcard size in the newspaper
and there is hardly any useful detail in the story. "A cyclist westbound
on XYZ Avenue was struck by a westbound [insert brand of car here] and
died at the scene". That about it in terms of details. A local car
accident with fatal outcome commands a lot more detail in reporting in
the paper.


> ... I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed

> even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was
> actually a pedestrian when hit.
>

See? That is one of the many things I mean with poor reporting.

> Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit
> excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury
> worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a
> "serious injury." That's excessive.
>

Nonsense. Serious studies don't that.

> And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a
> major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though
> bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities.
>

A brief lesson in statistics. The answer is in documents such as this:

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/case15.pdf

Quote "U.S. bicycle miles traveled range between 5.8 and 21.3 billion
per year" and a few lines down, quote "For comparison, U.S. passenger
vehicles traveled an estimated 2,061 billion miles in 1991"

Those numbers are about 25 years old but you have often said yourself
that the US mode share for cycling didn't improve much.

[Frank Krygowski]

That's not what I've seen here - although I admit your universe seems
very different from most in many ways! In our local news, all traffic
fatalities seem to get about the same level of publicity. It's true
that the level is usually minimal, typically about 15 seconds of TV news
time and about two or three column inches in the newspaper, unless there
is something unusual or sensational about the event.

Here's an example, from the most prominent news organization: "State
troopers say drug use is suspected in a crash that claimed the life of a
Toledo area man along the Ohio Turnpike in Jackson Township. The Ohio
State Highway Patrol says Edwin Clayton, 69, of Holland, Ohio was killed
Monday when his pickup truck went off the eastbound lanes of the
turnpike, striking an embankment and a tree. One lane of the tollway was
shut down at around 2 p.m. while authorities investigated the crash."

That's it. Less than 30 seconds on the news.

>> ... I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed
>> even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was
>> actually a pedestrian when hit.
>
> See? That is one of the many things I mean with poor reporting.

You missed the point, Joerg. You're claiming _bicycle_ accidents are
poorly reported. The incident I was alluding to was _not_ a bicycle
accident, any more than a pedestrian killed in the rain is an "umbrella
accident." If you're walking a bike, you're a pedestrian.

>> Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit
>> excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury
>> worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a
>> "serious injury." That's excessive.
>>
>
> Nonsense. Serious studies don't that.

The study in question was Hoffman et. al., "Bicycle Commuter Injury
Prevention," Journal of Trauma 2010;69: 1112-1119. That was the one
that took special care to frequently contact every person in the study
to be sure that NO tiny injury was missed, not even little scratches.

After this generated complaints of fear mongering, one of the authors
said "John Mayberry MD about the Hoffman, et. al. Portland study

Co-author John Mayberry said "One criticism mentioned above I would like
to rebut is our inclusion of minor injuries in traumatic events. We
really had to do that to get statistical power in the analysis. Our
premise was that any traumatic event COULD HAVE been serious and
therefore correlated with serious traumatic events. Fortunately most
bike crashes only result in skinned knees or elbows, but it only takes a
few millimeters difference in trajectory or a few more Newtons of force
to convert a sprain to a fracture or a contusion to a ruptured spleen."
(Emphasis mine.)

In other words, they had to include any tiny injury to get enough
injuries to study. And gosh, let's pretend that any tiny injury COULD
HAVE been serious. (What other activity has that idiotic criterion?)

And BTW, he did admit that even a tiny scratch or abrasion was labeled
"serious" in the study if (say) it was shown to any nurse or doctor.
How does that make sense, except as deliberate fear mongering?

>
>> And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a
>> major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though
>> bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities.
>>
>
> A brief lesson in statistics.

Joerg, there is no way you're qualified to give me a lesson in statistics.

> The answer is in documents such as this:
> http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/case15.pdf
>
> Quote "U.S. bicycle miles traveled range between 5.8 and 21.3 billion
> per year" and a few lines down, quote "For comparison, U.S. passenger
> vehicles traveled an estimated 2,061 billion miles in 1991"

We know that there are more miles driven than bicycled. We also know
there are more miles driven than walked.

But if you examine the lifetime risk of serious or fatal Traumatic Brain
Injury, you're most likely to get the TBI inside a motor vehicle.
(You're even more likely to get it in your home.)

If you examine the risk per mile traveled, you're more likely to suffer
fatal TBI while walking a mile than by biking a mile. That's also
probably true for non-fatal but serious TBI, although nobody seems to
track that for pedestrians. Why? Because there's no money to be made by
selling pedestrian helmets... yet.

If you examine the cost to society, we pay FAR more to care for motor
vehicle TBI than for bicycling TBI. That's despite seat belts and air
bags. We also pay far more for pedestrian TBI than bike TBI.

BTW, regarding automotive serious TBI: Again, it's second only to
in-home serious TBI. But people are never told never wear helmets
inside cars.

In fact, I'll bet that even the dedicated bike helmet fans reading this,
when driving their car to the start of a bike ride, don't bother to wear
their helmet. They've already paid for it. It might provide _some_
protection. Nobody will see them looking funny. And if they did, we'd
soon have lots of anecdotes saying "Oooh, my helmet got a dent! It
probably saved my life!"

So why not wear it in the car?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Or in a kayak:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/2-kayakers-die-after-boats-capsizes-in-lake-michigan/468901052

A bicycle helmet may have also prevented vocabulary and
syntax errors. We'll never know.