Flying Pigeon [photos]

[Emanuel Berg]

Here is one Flying Pigeon I recently observed
in the wild during an excursion of
Asian ornithology.

Compared to a Swedish or Norwegian standard
bike from the same period of bicycle history,
the Chinese have a lot of stays and small
crutches everywhere, all bolted. The steel
frame seems to be similar in style tho.

The Chinese must have been very proud of their
bike because it says "Flying Pigeon"
everywhere, on the saddle (both in English and
Chinese), on the chainguard, even on the rack!
They say it is the "all-steel bicycle".
I wonder what that is supposed to communicate
tho, perhaps some comparison to earlier
domestic bikes?

The biggest qualitative differences seems to be
1) the rear hub, that doesn't have a coaster
brake, and 2) the very interesting front and
rear brakes! Because the bike has old-school
V-rims, with a very little side area where
a hand brake of the kind we are used to would
squeeze (e.g., a side pull), instead the
brakes are two big shackles, with the pads
pointing upwards, and instead of squeezing the
walls with mechanically moving parts, the whole
thing is simply pulled upwards until it makes
contact with the rim!

Perhaps this requires more force, which is why
instead of wires there are huge rods to drive
the motion. Notice also that the rear brake is
placed below the chainstays.

The Flying Pigeon:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/front.jpg
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hub.jpg
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/rear-brake.jpg

And one of ours, for comparison:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hermes.jpg

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

[AMuzi]

Flying Pigeon are completely derivative from the classic
1913 Raleigh roadster, albeit shoddily. Raleigh invented
bulge-formed steel BB shells and lugs to replace the older
cast iron fittings, hence their legendary status as the
original "All Steel Bicycle".

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Emanuel Berg]

AMuzi wrote:

> Flying Pigeon are completely derivative from
> the classic 1913 Raleigh roadster, albeit
> shoddily. Raleigh invented bulge-formed steel
> BB shells and lugs to replace the older cast
> iron fittings, hence their legendary status
> as the original "All Steel Bicycle".

OK, did they pay the English or did they just
shamelessly copy their original design?

One has to give them cred for persistance tho,
even copying the "all steel" slogan!

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 19:41:12 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

> AMuzi wrote:
>
>> Flying Pigeon are completely derivative from the classic 1913 Raleigh
>> roadster, albeit shoddily. Raleigh invented bulge-formed steel BB
>> shells and lugs to replace the older cast iron fittings, hence their
>> legendary status as the original "All Steel Bicycle".
>
> OK, did they pay the English or did they just shamelessly copy their
> original design?

BWAAHAAHAAHAAAHAAA!

You're a very funny fellow. Or perhaps oblivious to the reputation that
Chinese companies have for stealing technology and design from the West.

> One has to give them cred for persistance tho, even copying the "all
> steel" slogan!

That's not generally how the originators of tech and design see it...

[Emanuel Berg]

Tim McNamara wrote:

>> OK, did they pay the English or did they
>> just shamelessly copy their original design?
>
> BWAAHAAHAAHAAAHAAA!
>
> You're a very funny fellow. Or perhaps
> oblivious to the reputation that Chinese
> companies have for stealing technology and
> design from the West.

I take it the Flying Pigeon was a state-funded
project? How come the Chinese with all their
resources had to bluntly copy an existing bike?

With all their engineers and manufacturing
manpower even in the 1950-80s or whenever the
Flying Pigeon was at its peak, why couldn't
they pick pieces from different bikes that they
fancied, and put together something that wasn't
really original in essence, but at least had
its own style, look and feel?

Also, why did they pick such an old bike to
copy? (1913) Not that it was a bad bike, I'm
sure it was great, but still a pre-WW1 bike?

[AMuzi]

We received Flying Pigeon samples in 1972 and even by the
[low] standards of the day found them sorely wanting. We
also received, unsolicited, a case of Mao's Little Red
Book[1] nicely bound in red vinyl which sold like hotcakes.

[1] otherwise known as Quotations from Chairman Mao, IMHO
vastly overrated.

[Emanuel Berg]

AMuzi wrote:

> We received Flying Pigeon samples in 1972 and
> even by the [low] standards of the day found
> them sorely wanting. We also received,
> unsolicited, a case of Mao's Little Red
> Book[1] nicely bound in red vinyl which sold
> like hotcakes.

Did they improve the bike during its existence
or was it the same bike in 1972?

In what areas did you find them bad?

> [1] otherwise known as Quotations from
> Chairman Mao, IMHO vastly overrated.

I know one Mao quote that I like, that "you
shouldn't let school disturb your studies" :)
Otherwise isn't it just a pamphlet for teenage
activists with a very limited scope/vision?

[sms]

I've ridden those in China. It's an experience.

There was a shop in L.A. importing them and selling them, complete with
warnings about the quality, the difficulty of assembly, and the scarcity
of parts.

At Interbike last year I saw a new bike with rod brakes.
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE>
Search for "Rod Brakes Are Back!" for a photo.

[Emanuel Berg]

sms wrote:

> At Interbike last year I saw a new bike with

> rod brakes. [...]

> Search for "Rod Brakes Are Back!" for
> a photo.

If "rod brakes" is what they are called,
I don't need to search for that for a photo,
I already posted two in this very thread :)

It is interesting you all speak of the poor
quality. Because the bike looked pretty solid
to me. It was in a poor state, sure, but I know
what treatment they receive in general, year in
year out, so I don't blame the bike first hand.
The components and boltware had a lot of rust
tho, so perhaps the quality of the stainless
steel, if that's what it was, wasn't top notch.

What are the pros and cons with rod brakes?
I suppose the rods won't wear out like
wires would. Also, with those kind of rims, it
seems like a good option as any other option,
save for disc and drum brakes, wouldn't do.
Well, I suppose it is conceivable to construct
a rim brake with moving parts to pull from
beneath, only I haven't seen such a brake if
indeed it was ever put together.

Why the rims looked that way on older bikes,
and what implications that had, is another
thing, but I guess the modern ones in their
different approaches are better, as the old
flavor was abandoned, and that way back in
bicycle history, right?

[AMuzi]

The Italians still build beautiful, nice riding, elegant
'Tipo R' bicycles:

https://bicivintage.myblog.it/media/01/00/1539692852.jpg

https://www.bikeitalia.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/montante.jpg

http://www.registrostoricocicli.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/U.-DEI-Super-leggera-ruote-da-26-anno-1962-telaio-n%C2%B0-1.jpg

[sms]

<https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/why-the-pigeon-couldnt-fly/>

[Sepp Ruf]

sms wrote:
> <https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/why-the-pigeon-couldnt-fly/>

A few years later...
Bray-Ali's flyingpigeon-la shop is closed and, somewhat predictably, his
attempt of entering L.A. politics didn't exactly take off, either.

<https://la.streetsblog.org/2017/04/28/offensive-bray-ali-comments-lead-to-rescinded-endorsements-calls-to-quit-race/>

[Emanuel Berg]

AMuzi wrote:

> The Italians still build beautiful, nice
> riding, elegant 'Tipo R' bicycles:
>
> https://bicivintage.myblog.it/media/01/00/1539692852.jpg
>
> https://www.bikeitalia.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/montante.jpg
>
> http://www.registrostoricocicli.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/U.-DEI-Super-leggera-ruote-da-26-anno-1962-telaio-n%C2%B0-1.jpg

Indeed, that looks considerably better than the
Flying Pigeon :)

[Emanuel Berg]

sms wrote:

> <https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/why-the-pigeon-couldnt-fly/>

? It did "fly" in the end, didn't it?

And what about this: "He said that he and his
fiancée, Victoria, planned to open the city’s
first dedicated Flying Pigeon shop on Canal
Street in the fall."

You have dedicated shops for particular bikes?

[Emanuel Berg]

AMuzi wrote:

> The Italians still build beautiful, nice
> riding, elegant 'Tipo R' bicycles

I wonder if "tipo" is type in Italian? It would
be cool if "R" refered to Raleigh Roadster but
perhaps the Italians had similar looking bikes
even in the WW1 period?

[David Scheidt]

Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:

:sms wrote:

:> <https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/why-the-pigeon-couldnt-fly/>

:? It did "fly" in the end, didn't it?

:And what about this: "He said that he and his
:fiancée, Victoria, planned to open the city’s
:first dedicated Flying Pigeon shop on Canal
:Street in the fall."

:You have dedicated shops for particular bikes?

Not really, no. I suspect that store never opened, and if it did, it
either failed fast, or became a real bike shop.

Certainly there are shops that specialize in brands and styles, but
very few that don't do everything.

--
sig 4