Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

[Sir Ridesalot]

Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?

Cheers

[Tim McNamara]

My approach to that is to switch to walking. When there's black ice,
it's too damned cold for pleasant cycling- and to be honest,
pleasantness is an important factr in riding a bike for me. My bigger
concern is that half or more of drivers are barely paying attention when
the streets are clear- combine obliviousness with black ice and I don't
wanna be out there.

[avag...@gmail.com]

Cold ? Number of stiff elderly dieing from head injuries walking on un seen ice is high enough for public comment.

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://www.google.com/search?gl=us&source=hp&ei=mfNRWqifDOub0wK10ZfQDg&q=injury+falling+on+unseen+ice&oq=injury+falling+on+unseen+ice&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12..33i21k1j33i160k1.3499.31553.0.33888.41.34.5.2.2.0.502.8746.2j2j19j4j4j1.32.0....0...1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-hp..2.39.8899.3..0j41j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.PAHTeGWoRrM

[Ian Field]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:e5a0f164-1fbb-4209...@googlegroups.com...

Maybe I should - my front tyre is pretty much a slick.

But its taking an awful long time to wear through to the canvas.

[ab.ch...@rogers.com]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 1:28:40 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?

I'm with Tim McNamara on this.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO

[AMuzi]

+1
when buses and beer trucks are doing the hula across the
curbs, there's no place in the street for a bicycle.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?
>
> Cheers

If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else. I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.

[Radey Shouman]

I just slow down and watch more carefully than usual. I'm not sure how
covert ice has to be to be called "black", but find that ice along the
verge is usually visible, if only because the usual asphalt roughness is
gone. In the dark, of course, one can be surprised.

--

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/7/2018 1:28 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?

Well, "it's known that there can be black ice" sounds to me like "It's
near or below freezing."

At my advanced age, I don't ride as much as I used to when it's below
freezing. My riding is mostly confined to utility trips around our
village. But no, I don't add any head or body armor. I just ride really
slowly and carefully.

FWIW: As a teen, I had a very large paper route (2nd biggest in the
city). Delivering by bike with a big basket was much easier than
trudging with a shoulder bag, so unless snow cover exceeded an inch or
so, I rode the bike. As a result, I may have better snow-riding reflexes
than most people.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

The bitter cold has passed here. Balmy 25F today which means
we can make snowballs again! How cold was it in the Midwest?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/how-brutal-is-the-chicago-cold-even-the-rats-are-dying/

I saw it on the radio. Man, that's cold.

[Joy Beeson]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 22:28:36 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?

For slick roads, my protective gear has a street address. Last time I
had a diversion-type fall, I was hugging a telephone pole every time I
coughed from November into the new year.

Sigh. I took an identical fall in the '80s, and got back on the bike
and finished riding from New York to Indiana.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

[Duane]

I normally wear a helmet so that’s no different. But I have some long
sleeve jerseys with pads in the elbows. With that and my jacket, I’m ok I
think.

I don’t wear hockey type elbow pads though if that’s what you mean.

--
duane

[jbeattie]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/7/2018 12:39 PM, ab.ch...@rogers.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 1:28:40 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> >> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?
> >
> > I'm with Tim McNamara on this.
> > --
> > Andrew Chaplin
> > SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
> >
>
> +1
> when buses and beer trucks are doing the hula across the
> curbs, there's no place in the street for a bicycle.

If it's sheet ice, it's hard standing up let alone riding a bike, even with studs. It's a no-ride day for me. Black ice often occurs on otherwise rideable days -- you gain a few hundred feet in elevation or ride through a shady spot. When I ride on those days, I don't put on armor -- I just go slowly in suspicious areas, and I typically stay out of the hills or do dirt climbs if I have to climb.

Hard pack snow and ice can be rideable, particularly with studs, but around here, I'll only ride in the fluffy stuff. It's not consistently cold in PDX, and on day two or three after a snowfall, all the pedestrian trails end up with deep, refrozen boot-holes that are unrideable. The roads might be rideable, but the lanes are too narrowed, and PDX drivers don't know how to cope with snow.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Radey Shouman]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> On 1/7/2018 1:28 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
>> roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
>> elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are
>> clear. Do you?
>
> Well, "it's known that there can be black ice" sounds to me like "It's
> near or below freezing."

Surely you need two things for black ice: freezing temperatures and
liquid water. Hoarfrost isn't black, neither is snow. To get
transparent ice on a reasonably crowned road you need quite a bit of
liquid water, so I expect black ice when snow melting temperatures are
quickly followed by temperatures well below freezing.

[AMuzi]

Or a salt slush base then colder temperatures and a little
added snow so it all freezes. Cars pack it shiny and hard.

[David Scheidt]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

When it's really cold (zero F and down) you get ice from things like
condensation from tail pipes at stop lights, and from storm sewer
'steam' refreezing. Those cna be be damn surprising.



--
sig 61

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 5:21:12 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
>
> The bitter cold has passed here. Balmy 25F today which means
> we can make snowballs again! How cold was it in the Midwest?
>
> https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/how-brutal-is-the-chicago-cold-even-the-rats-are-dying/
>
> I saw it on the radio. Man, that's cold.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi

I'm a hundred or so miles south of you. We made it up to mid 30s today. Next four days are supposed to be mid-upper 30s and maybe even low 40s. Then back into the freezer, sort of. Not as cold as a week or so ago, but much colder than freezing. Funny how freezing seems warm. "It was a smoking hot day today. We got all the way up to freezing!"

[David Scheidt]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I see dead rats on a regular basis, even when it's not stupidly cold.
I doubt the cold is killing them (directly, it'll kill the sick ones,
etc).


--
There's a rather large difference between pissing on a 600V third rail
and a 33 kV power line.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 07 Jan 2018 12:52:50 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/7/2018 12:39 PM, ab.ch...@rogers.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 1:28:40 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
>>> roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
>>> elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
>>> Do you?
>>
>> I'm with Tim McNamara on this.
>

> +1 when buses and beer trucks are doing the hula across the curbs,
> there's no place in the street for a bicycle.

We got no fenders or bumpers. Impacts go straight to the squishy.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 7 Jan 2018 11:35:27 -0800 (PST), russell...@yahoo.com
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I
> use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is
> irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else.
> I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using
> studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect
> my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.

Not my worry. My worry is motor vehicle operators having even less
control than the normally marginal control they usually have. 3000 lbs
of Volvo smacking into you at 40 mph with a smartphone in one hand and a
coffee in the other makes studded bike tires irrelevant.

If I lived out in the country and had roads more or less to myself, it'd
be a different situation.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 07 Jan 2018 20:30:21 -0500, Radey Shouman <sho...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> On 1/7/2018 1:28 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
>>> roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
>>> elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
>>> Do you?
>>
>> Well, "it's known that there can be black ice" sounds to me like
>> "It's near or below freezing."
>
> Surely you need two things for black ice: freezing temperatures and
> liquid water. Hoarfrost isn't black, neither is snow. To get
> transparent ice on a reasonably crowned road you need quite a bit of
> liquid water, so I expect black ice when snow melting temperatures are
> quickly followed by temperatures well below freezing.

That's not black ice, that's regular ice.

Black ice is visually transparent, usually formed by condensed moisture
in vehicle exhaust freezing to the roadways. The road can be otherwise
dry without a visual clue. It's more prevalent on bridges because those
road surfaces are colder than roads on top of the ground. Usually this
is a phenomenon that happens below 0F or about -20C, at which
temperatures crystal salts or brines tend to have little benefit.

Here in Minnesota and over by Madison where Andrew is, we get those
conditions multiple times most winters. Since there is no visual cue to
its presence, the first hint is often that vehicle up ahead slewing out
of control... if you're lucky and it's not the vehicle next to you- or
your vehicle. Drivers around here just know to beware when the temps
are down to 0F- it's one of the ways to spot the newbies, too.

I remember driving from Chicago back to Minnesota many years ago as a
young driver. I was on I-90 in the middle of Wisconsin on a bitterly
cold late afternoon; between Madison and the Dells. No snow cover yet,
just danged cold and not a sign of ice on the road. I drove onto a
short three lane bridge with a curve; started out in the inside lane and
a second later was exiting the bridge in the outside lane- white as a
sheet and with eyes like saucers, I'm sure. It was sheer luck I didn't
park it in the guard rail and that there weren't any other cars anywhere
near me.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/9/2018 1:21 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>
> I remember driving from Chicago back to Minnesota many years ago as a
> young driver. I was on I-90 in the middle of Wisconsin on a bitterly
> cold late afternoon; between Madison and the Dells. No snow cover yet,
> just danged cold and not a sign of ice on the road. I drove onto a
> short three lane bridge with a curve; started out in the inside lane and
> a second later was exiting the bridge in the outside lane- white as a
> sheet and with eyes like saucers, I'm sure. It was sheer luck I didn't
> park it in the guard rail and that there weren't any other cars anywhere
> near me.

As long as we're telling stories: My most exciting winter driving moment
happened when I was in my early 20s. I was motoring along on a two-lane
road on a slippery day. Approaching me up ahead was a large box truck.
Its driver put on his left turn signal and commenced a turn into a
grocery store parking lot.

He didn't make the turn. Instead, his truck began a complete rotation
within the roadway. After 90 degrees it was coming at me perfectly
sideways, taking both lanes. Fortunately, the rotation continued.

There was no way I could stop, of course. I had enough traction to move
to the left (oncoming) lane, and fortunately, there was no other
oncoming traffic. I used that lane to drive past the truck as it slid
backwards along in the right lane I had been using.

I'm not sure, but I think the truck came to a stop on the shoulder still
facing backward. I went on my way, perhaps a little more carefully.

BTW, that was in my '66 Corvair Corsa.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Radey Shouman]

I won't hold myself out as an expert on ice, nor have I lived anywhere
that 0F temperatures are really commonplace. But I have watched this
bit by Key and Peele repeatedly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efiW2K8gASM

and find it as illuminating as anything else. Having heard a number of
black ice stories, my working definition of black ice is a thin,
transparent layer of ice on the roadway, that *took me by surprise*.


You are correct in that 0F is around the limit of efficacy of road salt,
so brine that has melted during the day, and adsorbed water, either from
ambient humidity or vehicle exhaust, tends to freeze. This may be
surprising to drivers. I don't believe it's true that bridges tend to
be colder than other roadways. I think bridge decks tend to change
temperature, either up or down, faster than other roadways, which may
freeze more brine before it gets a chance to run off.

> I remember driving from Chicago back to Minnesota many years ago as a
> young driver. I was on I-90 in the middle of Wisconsin on a bitterly
> cold late afternoon; between Madison and the Dells. No snow cover yet,
> just danged cold and not a sign of ice on the road. I drove onto a
> short three lane bridge with a curve; started out in the inside lane and
> a second later was exiting the bridge in the outside lane- white as a
> sheet and with eyes like saucers, I'm sure. It was sheer luck I didn't
> park it in the guard rail and that there weren't any other cars anywhere
> near me.

I remember driving from Austin (TX, not MN) to Dallas in December. It
had rained, and the temperature fell rapidly to below freezing,
solidifying lots of dew. It was humid enough that the carburetor in my
car actually froze up (I could see ice in the throat after removing the
air cleaner). Fortunately exposure to small planes had made me aware of
carburetor icing, and I scavenged a piece of cardboard from the side
of the road to put in front of the radiator in order to continue.

When I got to Dallas there was ice everywhere -- on the fences, on the
bushes, and all over the road. Large vehicles were doing their
impression of the hippos in Fantasia. It was hard to walk on any paved
surfaces. Naturally, Dallas doesn't have *any* road salting or sanding
equipment, nor is salt or sand stockpiled, so the ice there is as black
at 25F as it is in Minnesota at -5F.

To get back to bicycling, it seems to me that cyclists actually have a
few advantages when it comes to detecting ice: a better view of the
roadway, slower speed, a sensitivity to that "oh shit" feeling caused by
even a very momentary loss of traction, and, if you're as timid as I
have become, a ready resignation to slowing down for poor conditions.

Of course, it is still possible to fall on the ice, as I have proven to
myself several times. That could hurt, especially in traffic.

Tonight, riding home from work, it was warm, right around freezing. I
detoured around a number of patches of roadway snow, but didn't see much
ice. I did see a number of patches of water, which may have frozen by
now.
--

[Emanuel Berg]

I have 56 width tires (2.20 or 2 inches) even
tho it isn't a MTB, and the tires have
drive/direction and an aggressive tread.

When I put them on, I thought, "great, now
I don't need studded tires anymore in the
winter", but this has proved incorrect.

But I only slipped once (this winter), and that
was when jumping on the bike and turning at the
same time. The back wagon loosed touch and
slided for half a meter or so. An unpleasant
moment of mini-panic, for sure, until
I regain control.

However when riding down the small slopes and
valleys we do (don't) have here, I feel the
grip isn't 100 as it is with studded tires, and
I feel a little less bold. I think about it
then, but the only time it could actually loose
touch is when turning, for example in
roundabouts, and that was exactly the case with
44-622s as well.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 11:28:40 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?
>
> Cheers

as a snow country biker, does SR use studded tires /

[Sir Ridesalot]

No, no studs for me. I drop; the air pressure a fair bit if I think I'll be on black ice. Early in the season I take the bike to an outdoor ice rimnks after dark when the rink is closed (It's a temporary one they build forthe winter in a park) and practice riding the bike on that ice.

Btw, contrary to many who believe that black ice is always thin, that's not always true and also, black ice can form very quickly even if the air temperature is above freezing but the moisture is in shade and thus quite a bit cooler.

Cheers

[Mark J.]

I agree that studs make ice (mostly) irrelevant. (See what others have
posted about uncontrolled larger vehicles in the vicinity.) But you
/can/ fall with studs, I've done it, though I haven't on "just ice."
Deep snow /over/ ice, that's another matter. This is a pretty rare
condition around here.

When the snow is so deep, though, the fall is more likely to cause
embarrassment than injury.

I swap in a studded front wheel when there's a chance of black ice on my
commute. When ice/snow are more certain, stud both wheels.

Amusing tale:

Long ago I was commuting in Colorado year round. Made my first set of
studded tires. Toodling to work on the studs, there was a stoplight
where the crossroad was steeply crowned. My light turns green but
there's a car creeping to a stop on the crossroad. I wait.

Car slows to walking pace and starts to slide, then slides to its right
toward a very tall curb, which it impacts with the bumper, "thunk".
/Then/ I proceed, feeling smug.

Mark J.

[David Scheidt]

Mark J. <MarkU...@comcast.net> wrote:

:On 1/7/2018 11:35 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
:> On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
:>> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?
:>>
:>> Cheers
:>
:> If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else. I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.

:I agree that studs make ice (mostly) irrelevant. (See what others have
:posted about uncontrolled larger vehicles in the vicinity.) But you
:/can/ fall with studs, I've done it, though I haven't on "just ice."
:Deep snow /over/ ice, that's another matter. This is a pretty rare
:condition around here.

:When the snow is so deep, though, the fall is more likely to cause
:embarrassment than injury.

:I swap in a studded front wheel when there's a chance of black ice on my
:commute. When ice/snow are more certain, stud both wheels.

:Amusing tale:

:Long ago I was commuting in Colorado year round. Made my first set of
:studded tires. Toodling to work on the studs, there was a stoplight
:where the crossroad was steeply crowned. My light turns green but
:there's a car creeping to a stop on the crossroad. I wait.

My first experience with studded tires: I was visting a frined in
Burlington VT. there had been an ice storm, everything was coated in
half an inch of ice. I was tasked with buying beer. I went to walk
the couple blocks to the store, uphill. I coulnd't, I just fell down
and down, and down. Friend told me "Take the bike". I protested I
coulnd't walk, how can I ride? He showed me the studs. I went for a
ride (and a bit of a joy ride, because No Traffic.) Got to the liquor
store, put my foot down, fell over.




--
sig 116

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/11/2018 11:21 AM, Mark J. wrote:
> On 1/7/2018 11:35 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
>>> roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
>>> elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
>>> Do you?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>
>> If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I
>> use carbide studded tires on my bike.  With studded tires, ice is
>> irrelevant.  Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else.
>> I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using
>> studded tires.  So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect
>> my body if I were to fall.  But with studded tires, you can't fall.
>
> I agree that studs make ice (mostly) irrelevant.  (See what others have
> posted about uncontrolled larger vehicles in the vicinity.)  But you
> /can/ fall with studs, I've done it, though I haven't on "just ice."
> Deep snow /over/ ice, that's another matter.  This is a pretty rare
> condition around here.

I have one friend who was riding home from work in winter on studded
tires, very pleased at their traction. But as he turned into his
driveway, he fell when crossing the melted and re-frozen pile from the
snowplow. He broke his collarbone.

This doesn't meant falls are common with studded tires. But falling
isn't impossible.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

Been there, done that -- although no broken collarbone. I never found studs to be magical in ice, but it might be because I have a crappy set of Innova el cheap-o studs. Ice on manhole covers, streetcar tracks, etc. is still very dangerous with studs.

Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building sidewalks and installing banana peels.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Tim McNamara]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:36:33 -0800 (PST), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
wrote:

>
> Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is
> on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on
> the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff
> is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to
> avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building
> sidewalks and installing banana peels.

The people designing bike infrastructure seem to generally have no
notion at all of how to actually ride a bike in traffic. IME the bike
infrastructure (bike lanes, etc.) often makes riding worse rather than
better- to the extent that I wonder if that is actually the point.

[Radey Shouman]

Thick, transparent ice can certainly form on the roadway, the only
question is whether such blatant stuff merits the name "black ice".

On the second point I think you're correct in general, but, to be frank,
mistaken in detail. The surface of a puddle trying to freeze can lose
heat through two mechanisms: convection by nearby air, and radiation.
If the local air temperature is above freezing convection cannot cool
anything to below freezing.

Radiation can cool the puddle to, roughly, the blackbody temperature of
whatever is "visible" from it. I remember being asked to show this as
homework -- we were to assume a (very cold) stratospheric blackbody
temperature, and show that ice could form even if the air temperature
was above freezing.

The catch is that shade is exactly the wrong condition for this to
happen, what's needed is a view of a clear nightime sky.

The blackbody assumption (absorption/emission spectrum depending
smoothly on temperature) isn't quite right, because the atmosphere
contains "greenhouse" gases with interesting spectra in the infrared.
By far the most important of these is water, so if you want to freeze
water at air temperatures above freezing, choose a clear night in a
desert.

I believe this phenomenon was actually used to produce ice in
pre-industrial India.


--

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/11/2018 7:00 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:36:33 -0800 (PST), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is
>> on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on
>> the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff
>> is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to
>> avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building
>> sidewalks and installing banana peels.
>
> The people designing bike infrastructure seem to generally have no
> notion at all of how to actually ride a bike in traffic.

Certainly, the "advocates" that demand such infrastructure seldom know
how to actually ride a bike in traffic. When a knowledgeable cyclist
points out the flaws in their dreamy designs, they frequently attack.
They say things like "Well, you're one of the 'strong and fearless.' We
need designs for anyone, 8 to 80." (As if 80-year-old grandma is going
to know about hazards like Jay describes.)

So in the bike advocacy arena, people with the most expertise are
disparaged for their knowledge, while the ignorant are revered.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 1/11/2018 5:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 10:15:33 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/11/2018 11:21 AM, Mark J. wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2018 11:35 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>>>> Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
>>>>> roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
>>>>> elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
>>>>> Do you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I

>>>> use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is
>>>> irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else.

>>>> I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using

>>>> studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect
>>>> my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.
>>>
>>> I agree that studs make ice (mostly) irrelevant. (See what others have
>>> posted about uncontrolled larger vehicles in the vicinity.)Â But you

>>> /can/ fall with studs, I've done it, though I haven't on "just ice."

>>> Deep snow /over/ ice, that's another matter. This is a pretty rare

>>> condition around here.
>>
>> I have one friend who was riding home from work in winter on studded
>> tires, very pleased at their traction. But as he turned into his
>> driveway, he fell when crossing the melted and re-frozen pile from the
>> snowplow. He broke his collarbone.
>>
>> This doesn't meant falls are common with studded tires. But falling
>> isn't impossible.
>
> Been there, done that -- although no broken collarbone. I never found studs to be magical in ice, but it might be because I have a crappy set of Innova el cheap-o studs. Ice on manhole covers, streetcar tracks, etc. is still very dangerous with studs.
>
> Changing the subject, it's raining a lot, and my latest slip-fest is on the utterly stupid yellow and green plastic dimpled transitions on the super-duper cycletrack through the south waterfront. This stuff is everywhere, and when you hit it at an angle (turning across it to avoid on-coming dopes), your wheels slip out. It's like building sidewalks and installing banana peels.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

"We're from the government. We're here to help you."

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://books.google.com/books?id=0RfZScNXwLIC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=heat+retention+bridges&source=bl&ots=gDQ424dY52&sig=Cl0SKoMYXT9puG0q_1nO1xN0_6s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi716WS8dHYAhUC62MKHcB1AHYQ6AEwB3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=heat%20retention%20bridges&f=false

AFAIK, metal bridGE grates pass heat thru not storing heat. Concrete decks cool both sides, bottom in shade, no diurnal flywheel.

Large difference tween flat area in su shine say 30 degrees.

[Andy]

On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 1:35:31 PM UTC-6, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear. Do you?
> >
> > Cheers
>

> If there is a chance of black ice, or any ice or slick condition, I use carbide studded tires on my bike. With studded tires, ice is irrelevant. Studded tires have perfect grip on ice or anything else. I use normal helmet and lots of winter cycling clothes when using studded tires. So I have two, three thicknesses of clothes to protect my body if I were to fall. But with studded tires, you can't fall.

At $110 each, I'll pass on them tires.

Just as riding hard will wear the tread blocks of regular knobby tires quickly in summer, it will do the same in winter, and the studs will be more likely to rip out of the tire

Andy

[AMuzi]

I don't use then either but the popular brands and models
hover around $59.95. Are there $110 (and higher) tires?
Sure, but that's not the basic rate.