Disappearing Strings

[cycl...@gmail.com]

While I was in the process of answering Frank's statements about WMD my screen reset and now that string is not on my listing.

But to answer Frank: There were NOT 27 people injured by poison gas. There over 1000 trained professionals. That is NOT the sort of thing that would occur with "old wornout rusty weapons". There were some 5,000 weapons found and most were carefully protected. One entire batch was sealed under the center of a large city - hardly the place you would look for them.

Moreover - something that disappeared off of the Internet almost instantly was that the UN WMD investigation team found another 10,000 lbs of these weapons in 2012. Why that article which was on several sites would disappear is odd but it did.

Of course they would not find biological weapons because these things self destruct almost immediately. Cut off the food and they immediately die off. And they are NOT kept in bombs or shells. They are inserted very near the time of use.

About your statement of Yellowcake being as harmless as lead: 1% of Yellowcake (which isn't yellow - it looks like ground up rock powder) is U235 - a fissionable isotope. That means that that "nothing more than lead" has 1.5 TONS of U235. For those who do not know what that means: It takes about 30 lbs of U235 to make a bomb. And it takes only a couple of lbs to make an extremely deadly dirty bomb. A ton and a half can hardly be called as harmless as lead.

Question - After Obama stayed in Afghanistan and allowed four times as many American deaths there than Bush did you see any complaints in the media?

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/2/2016 3:05 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> While I was in the process of answering Frank's statements about WMD my screen reset and now that string is not on my listing.

That's the cabal of grand conspirators for you! They're obviously
watching your posts and censoring your replies.

But it's not just you. I wouldn't be surprised if they delete the rest
of this post of mine...

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

In the summer of 2014, IS started using Iraqi chlorine and
sarin shells against Syrian civilians, the materiel
reportedly captured from Saddam Hussein's Al Muthanna
facility. There was much hue and cry for a couple of weeks
but the moment passed. I remember it because a customer with
Bush Derangement Syndrome told me with a straight face that
there was no such facility in Iraq (!)

http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-captures-iraqi-chemical-weapons-facility-1606450

For you amateur logicians out there, wrap your head around
this one:

In a written statement, U.S. State Department spokesperson
Jen Psaki said that the Obama administration “does not
believe that the complex contains Chemical Weapons materials
of military value and it would be very difficult, if not
impossible, to safely move the materials.”



--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

Source?

From what I've read: Yes, ISIS has occasionally used chemical weapons.
I've seen nothing to indicate that their source was a functioning Iraqi
facility.

And let's remember, the initial justification for W's and Cheney's
invasion of Iraq was the claim that Saddam had active programs and could
soon attack Israel and perhaps even the U.S. Buried and corroded
ordnance left over from his war with Iran is not the same thing.

Let's also remember that if our troops had actually found evidence of an
active WMD program, Bush's team would hardly have kept it a secret. It
would have been front page news worldwide.

> http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-captures-iraqi-chemical-weapons-facility-1606450

You seemed to imply something different from what that article implies.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

It's all fake news Frank. Just like Obama's "Red Line In The Sand" where he got so angry then his pet ISIS claimed responsibility when he wanted to start a war with Syrian himself.

[AMuzi]

Sheesh this isn't news any more but here you are:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/world/middleeast/syrian-familys-agony-raises-specter-of-chemical-warfare.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/world/middleeast/isis-chemical-weapons-syria-iraq-mosul.html?smtyp=cur


I inferred from "ISIS captured Iraqi chemical weapons
facility" that ISIS had captured an Iraqi chemical weapons
facility. What did I miss between the lines there?

[AMuzi]

On 12/2/2016 3:51 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Lest we add inferences unduly, there was an actual war
resolution:

Iraq War Resolution
President George Bush, surrounded by leaders of the House
and Senate, announces the Joint Resolution to Authorize the
Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq, October 2, 2002.

The October 2002, U.S. congress Iraq War Resolution cited
many factors to justify the use of military force against Iraq:

Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991
ceasefire agreement, including interference with U.N.
weapons inspectors.
Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and
programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the
national security of the United States and international
peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."
Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population."
Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of
mass destruction against other nations and its own people".
Iraq's hostility towards the United States as
demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt on former
President George H. W. Bush and firing on coalition aircraft
enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.
Members of Al-Qaeda, an organization bearing
responsibility for attacks on the United States, its
citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred
on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
Iraq's "continuing to aid and harbor other
international terrorist organizations," including
anti-United States terrorist organizations.
Iraq paid bounty to families of suicide bombers.
The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight
terrorists, including the September 11, 2001 terrorists and
those who aided or harbored them.
The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress
for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.
The governments in Turkey, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia
feared Saddam and wanted him removed from power.
Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution
reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States
to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic
replacement.

The Resolution required President Bush's diplomatic efforts
at the U.N. Security Council to "obtain prompt and decisive
action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons
its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and
promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security
Council resolutions." It authorized the United States to use
military force to "defend the national security of the
United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq;
and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
Resolutions regarding Iraq."

If some people forgot the 1st charge and fell asleep after
the 2d, that does not mean WMD was the sole reason.

It was, and I have no particular opinion but it was, a
continuation of the past several administrations' policy,
clearly exacerbated by Hussein's actions and positions.

(my inexpert opinion is that he felt no one would call his
bluff)

[Frank Krygowski]

Arguing this stuff is like trying to stomp on jello. The result is just
several more blobs of jello that need stomping.

To review: Nobody here has denied that ISIS used some chemical weapons,
so your links do not disprove what anybody said.

The claim I've made was that the prime justification for Bush II's
disastrous invasion of Iraq was that Saddam had active and effective
programs producing weapons of mass destruction, ready to use against
Israel and the U.S. To quote Cheney: "There is no doubt that Saddam
Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is
amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and
against us." That was pretty much the start of, and the theme of, the
massive propaganda campaign.

What was found was NOT active and effective programs. In fact, no
active programs were found at all. No current WMDs were found. They
eventually found some corroding and useless remains from the Iran-Iraq
war, from 15 or more years ago. Again, if they _had_ found a viable WMD
program, it would have been front page news everywhere.

It's fine to say that ISIS eventually captured the site of a former
Iraqi weapons plant. It's not fine to pretend that this was a site that
proved Cheney's & Bush's claims. It's not even reasonable to pretend
that was the source of chemicals ISIS used against Syrians.

It's fine to note that the administration fooled LOTS of people into
going along with their invasion. It's not fine to pretend that those
people would have gone along if they knew the WMD claims were bullshit.

I have to say, at this point it's hard to see your objective. Are you
and Tom seriously trying to argue that the invasion of Iraq was a fine
idea, one that has worked out well? The total number of people who
still believe that could probably fit into a small bike shop.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[W. Wesley Groleau]

On 12-02-2016 17:01, AMuzi wrote:
> Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop
> such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United
> States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."

Irrelevant. No matter what the House and Senate and the Supreme Court
do, anything bad that happens MUST be blamed on the President by the
opposing party.

Seriously, my opinion is that Hussein wanting everyone to think he had
them to intimidate his enemies. He just fatally misjudged the result of
that strategy.

--
Wes Groleau

[Doug Landau]

> Arguing this stuff is like trying to stomp on jello. The result is just
> several more blobs of jello that need stomping.
>

Aw, it's no worse than the concept that native californians were repaid for their being taken as slaves by teaching them modern farming methods :-)

[jbeattie]

The reasons, however, did not justify dropping $Trillion down a shit-hole. It was a wrong decision. We know that now -- after almost 14 years.

-- Jay Beattie.

[jbeattie]

The second link states that the mustard gas ordinance used by ISIS did not match the ordinance in the stores found in Iraq and might be from Syria. The chlorine gas was believed to be home grown. Some also think ISIS may be producing its own mustard gas.

-- Jay Beattie

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

translation: moving leaking deadly gas explosives best done by the opposition.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

Iam dumbstruck finding JB ignoring the vasr economic benefits of deficit spending thru military procurement and distribution ....as if JB is the Gov of Kansas.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:46:59 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>

> I inferred from "ISIS captured Iraqi chemical weapons
> facility" that ISIS had captured an Iraqi chemical weapons
> facility. What did I miss between the lines there?

You missed Frank telling us that there were no WMD.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Frank - This was not Bush's war. This was from Clinton bombing Iraq in 1998 which insulted the Arabs which caused 9/11. Unless you're one of those conspiracy theorists who tell us that 9/11 was caused by Americans using explosives in building #7 and that there were no aircraft crashed into the trade towers - that it was all a fake.

Bush in fact TRIED TO STOP a war in Iraq or elsewhere and gave several speeches to Congress to that effect that are on youTube. But the American people were out for blood and you can see what the Democrat position was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS9y5t0tR0

Tell me - when there were MASSIVE American invasions can you explain HOW Iraq could have maintained an "active program"?

You've already given us your BS about only old worn out corroded WMD found and that only 27 people were injured. Aren't you getting tired of passing that sort of thing off?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Wes, the report of the UN was so complete and so specific that they HAD to have a man on the inside. They quoted four types of gas weapons, three types of biological weapons (all hell and gone the most dangerous) and a nuclear weapons program.

We found gas weapons and we found a nascent nuclear program. We do not know whether we found signs of a biological weapons center and they sure as hell wouldn't say if they did.

As Muzi pointed out, ISIS found a poison gas facility. Whether they made use of it in any other manner than to use old weapons isn't know by us. But they did use these weapons to kill everyone on a Syrian military base as well as people surrounding that base.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Doug - the word "slave" comes directly from the the word "Slav". I am a Slav. So please don't tell me about slavery as if your German name gave you more knowledge about it.

The Missions did NOT kill the natives. Their labor was nothing more than a form of taxation to the Spanish crown. And the overwhelming number of these laborers were SPANISH MEXICANS. The "native Indians" were only only used in the early missions in the 1700's and it was such an awful experience that the Indians called themselves by the names of the Missions they worked at. Conversion to
Christianity always seems to be horrifying to atheists. Apparently the constant paganism and war that existed before Christian conversion was far superior in their minds.

When California was ceded to the US after the Spanish American War these laborers were given the choice of becoming Californian citizens or returning home to Mexico and the vast majority returned to Mexico. The Mission system collapsed without farming to support them.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I don't remember the detector all that well. But since I was exposed to extremely low levels I can attest to it'd efficacy. I went from hanging on the back of the Cat 1-2-3 pack to not being able to keep up with the Cat 5's. I would stop breathing in the middle of the night and my wife would have to poke me to get me breathing again.

[AMuzi]

It was before Clinton, actually.

The stated offense taken by the feral jihadis was in Gulf
War I or Liberation of Occupied Kuwait at the staging of US
military personnel in Saudi Arabia.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

none of this is true

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

before

And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out

goo.gl/VvlRzg

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

a failed civilization, oil or not.

[jbeattie]

We're you fighting ISIS in Syria? I was there and didn't see you, although after being captured, I was preoccupied with building a mechanical iron suit powered by a small rare earth reactor which I used to fight my way to freedom.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

I'm not the one touting fringe beliefs.

> Bush in fact TRIED TO STOP a war in Iraq or elsewhere and gave several speeches to Congress to that effect that are on youTube.

Where?

> Tell me - when there were MASSIVE American invasions can you explain HOW Iraq could have maintained an "active program"?

The prime excuse given for the invasion was that Saddam had those WMD
programs in place before we invaded. To again quote Cheney: "There is

no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There
is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our
allies, and against us."

Except he didn't use them against us, even when we invaded. Why?
Because they didn't exist.

If they existed, they would have been used against us. If they existed,
the irrevocable evidence would have immediately been shown to the entire
world, and would have been front page news in every country. You don't
seem to explain why that news flash was missing. Is it another vast
conspiracy, like the one claiming the earth is round?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/3/2016 3:04 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> As Muzi pointed out, ISIS found a poison gas facility. Whether they made use of it in any other manner than to use old weapons isn't know by us. But they did use these weapons to kill everyone on a Syrian military base as well as people surrounding that base.
>

As the link pointed out, the stuff ISIS used was NOT from that Iraqi
ex-facility.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

One of my good friends was in Iraq, and has the medals and heroism
plaques to prove it. As I recall, they were earned by dragging others
to shelter during incoming shelling.

He is still in that business, so to speak, and will soon be stationed
there again. I know his views pretty well. I don't believe he would
agree with anything Tom is saying.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

There were no functional weapons of mass destruction. There were some rusted chemical ordinance and some yellow cake with no operating calutrons or diffusers to separate the isotopes. Those had long since been blown up. This is all old news. The fact is, attacking Iraq was a big f****** mistake that threw the US into massive debt and lead to the death of thousands of Americans for no reason. Saddam had no missile system that could have lobbed a WMD anywhere near a US asset, and if Iraq started lobbing shells at Israel, Iraq would have been flattened with no subsequent nation-building effort.

-- Jay Beattie.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

THE AREA IS PRIMITVE. I doahn know anyone from there, my ancestors are Egyptians and a few Turks all globally mobile in the early 19th century.

I assume the people are primitive and the ongoing proves out. 'Like' its the 12 Century all over again.

This was the understanding going in....and thus WMD would not be found.

Weather ballons were deficient.

The entire scene is technologically tacky.

[Tim McNamara]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 12:05:46 -0800 (PST), cycl...@gmail.com

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I was in the process of answering Frank's statements about WMD
> my screen reset and now that string is not on my listing.

"Threads," not strings. FWIW.

[Duane]

Jay you don't seem to be checking with the Donald to get your facts
straight.



--
duane

[cycl...@gmail.com]

The chemistry to build poison gas weapons is rather simple once you understand what to do. And you could easily gain that information from a production site.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Can you be more specific? And instead of assuming perhaps you could tell us his asked opinion and not your own?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Where was this massive debt Jay? In six years the Debt Held By The Public rose only half again the previous debt. Then a Democrat Congress was elected and they doubled the debt that Bush had grown in only two years.

I have looked all over the Internet and have YET to see a single chart that is telling the truth as read from the Department of the Treasury reports.

In fact the national debt is composed of two parts: "Debt Held By The Public" which is the sum total of all of the years' debts and "Intergovernmental Holdings" which represents the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds. Depicting Intergovernmental Holdings as anything other than a GOOD debt is a stinking lie that the liberals have continues from scratch day one of the Obama administration.

During Bush the debts of each rose approximately equally. During the time of Obama the DHBTP went from 5 Trillion dollars to over 14 Trillion while the IGH rose at less than 57% of the time before Obama.

If you don't understand what is going on WHY are you (as usual) commenting.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Yesterday I got a complete screen reset again and it reappeared in the string I was in the process of answering when it first disappeared.

[W. Wesley Groleau]

On 12-03-2016 18:40, jbeattie wrote:
> attacking Iraq was a big f****** mistake that threw the US into massive debt

"into"? Not exactly.

Correction: … that made the already massive debt worse.

--
Wes Groleau

[W. Wesley Groleau]

On 12-04-2016 10:14, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> During Bush the debts of each rose approximately equally.
> During the time of Obama the DHBTP went from 5 Trillion dollars
>to over 14 Trillion while the IGH rose at less than 57%
> of the time before Obama.

Whether the SS funds are "good" debt is debatable, but
the funds _have_ to be invested somewhere, so they should
definitely be counted separately from other debt when
complaining about our disastrous debt. But either way,
it is disastrous. Or will be soon.

--
Wes Groleau

[jbeattie]

Quiet those voices in your head, and you'll find a chart:
http://tinyurl.com/jx7tgkc http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/03/an-800-billion-war-the-immense-cost-of-invading-iraq-in-charts/274290/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

All financed with government debt (both public and intergovernmental), or as the Atlantic put it "Fighting Terrorism with a Credit Card." http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/09/cost-wars-iraq-afghanistan/499007/

As a jobs program, it sucked. The long-tail liabilities and social costs are in calculable. Even your buddy The Donald thought it was a mistake. Read this: https://www.thenation.com/article/6-trillion-wars/ Go to the Harvard report and read that, too. It's enlightening. Have one of your Indian HR people summarize it for you, Sahib.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 12:05:46 -0800 (PST), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>About your statement of Yellowcake being as harmless as lead:
>1% of Yellowcake (which isn't yellow - it looks like ground
>up rock powder) is U235 - a fissionable isotope.

Wrong? Yellowcake has the same ratio of U-235 to U-238 as found in
natural Uranium because it has not going through the separation phase.
Natural Uranium contains 0.72% U-235 and >99.2% U-238.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enriched_uranium>
See pie charts on the right.

>That means that that "nothing more than lead" has 1.5 TONS of U235.

For Yellowcake to contain 1.5 tons (3000 lbs) of U235, the raw ore
before enrichment would weigh
3000 / 0.0072 = 417,000 lbs.

>For those who do not know what that means: It takes about 30 lbs
>of U235 to make a bomb.

<http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/articles/2001/bomb%20facts.htm>
30 lbs (13.6kg is a bit low:
"- 15 kilograms: Weight of a solid sphere of 100 percent
uranium-235 just large enough to achieve a critical mass
with a beryllium reflector."

>And it takes only a couple of lbs to make an extremely deadly
>dirty bomb. A ton and a half can hardly be called as harmless as lead.

True, but one does not use U-235 to make a dirty bomb. It's not very
radioactive and is VERY expensive. Methinks you'll find the following
list of prospective ingredients more suitable:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb#Constructing_and_obtaining_material_for_a_dirty_bomb>

Hot isotopes have comparatively short half lives. In other words, if
you're building a dirty bomb, you want the stuff to decay rather
rapidly, so you can take over after everyone is dead. U-235 is a poor
candidate for such an attack, with a half life of 703,800,000 years.
Better candidates are:
Polonium-210 = 138 days
Strontium-90 = 29 years
Cesium-137 = 30 years
Plutonium-238 = 88 years
Not so good is:
Americium-241 = 241 years
Cobalt-60 = 1925 years

Subtle suggestion: Please double check your "facts".



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 09:27:24 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>>That means that that "nothing more than lead" has 1.5 TONS of U235.

>For Yellowcake to contain 1.5 tons (3000 lbs) of U235, the raw ore
>before enrichment would weigh
> 3000 / 0.0072 = 417,000 lbs.
>
>>For those who do not know what that means: It takes about 30 lbs
>>of U235 to make a bomb.
>
><http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/articles/2001/bomb%20facts.htm>
>30 lbs (13.6kg is a bit low:
> "- 15 kilograms: Weight of a solid sphere of 100 percent
> uranium-235 just large enough to achieve a critical mass
> with a beryllium reflector."

Drivel: If you're going to go fishing for U-235, you can get enough
to make quite a few 80% enriched cores by simply draining San
Francisco Bay.

SF bay averages about 15 ft deep.
15ft / 5,280ft/mile = 0.00284 miles deep.
SF bay is about 1000 sq-miles in surface area.
0.00284 * 1000 sq-miles = 2.84 cubic miles of seawater.
Seawater averages 13.3 tons of natural uranium per cubic mile.
<http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2016/07/01/uranium-seawater-extraction-makes-nuclear-power-completely-renewable/>
2.84 cubic miles * 13.3 metric tons uranium per cubic mile
= 37.9 metric tons uranium.
37.9 metric tons * 2,204 lbs/metric-ton = 83,550 lbs
of Uranium in SF Bay.
0.72% of natural uranium is U-235.
0.0072 * 8,3550 lbs = 602 lbs of U-235 in San Francisco Bay.
602 lbs of pure U-235 / 0.90 = 669 lbs of 90% uranium
About 40 lbs of U-235 for a 90% enriched core.
669 lbs / 40 lbs/core = 16.7 bombs
So, by draining the bay, you can make 16 atomic bombs bombs.

> Cobalt-60 = 1925 years

Oops. That should be:
Cobalt-60 = 1925 days = 5.3 years.
and would be a good candidate for a dirty bomb.

Next topic, the nuclear powered bicycle.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

uhb Bush started a war n therein rose debt.

Bush destroyed the Global economic system causing more debt , unpayable debt in foreclosures.

Bush gave away the overage in taxes from the computer boom to the people who spent the dough in Walmart n China creating more debt. Too busy to create federal jobs filters with the money.

These debts are Bush GOP economics debts and have zero to do with the O admin restoring stability in the country. Except that stability gives more debt as people are not earning enough to save.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Wes, you are completely correct. And these funds were more or less respected until Obama got into office and then they were almost immediately spent. This means that the SS and Medicare are now supported by the income from today's workers. And Obama's policies have made it such that there is not enough income from these sources. So income tax moneys are used as well.

Trump is really serious about settling the debt and that IS his business. And he has gotten in some of the best money men on the globe to help. We can only hope that it hasn't gone too far to correct.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

September 11, 2002 cost the US about 20 billion dollars in one day. The war in Iraq was nothing more than a response to what could have happened. Remember I told you what tiny portions of poison gas injured me. What do you think would have happened with a small backpack laid down in times square at noon on a nice spring day would have done? Perhaps you ought to screw your head on properly and think of the consequences of Bill Clinton's acts against Iraq. The gas detector I was programming was detecting a colorless and odorless gas. This is hardly something we'd want outside of the confines of Lawrence Livermore Laboratories and under strict military supervision.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Here's Jeff's "facts" 3/4's of a percent cannot be rounded off to a percent. 30 lbs is not close enough to 33 lbs. And 150 tons which would contain 159 * .75 = 1 1/8th tons is not close enough to a ton and a half estimation.

Then we're told that in order for a terrorist force without nuclear facilities to make a dirty bomb they should use any of a series of elements that are not available without such facilities.

Jeff - grow up.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

So I show the liberal lies for what they are using the reports from the Department of the Treasury and you repeat the lies. Good job stupid.

[jbeattie]

What does this have to do with Iraq? It wasn't involved in 911.

-- Jay Beattie.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

9/11 was the direct cause of Bill Clinton's insulting the Islamic states when he started the Iraqi war. This war was about, gee, WMD that we have people here claiming Bush started. In fact Bush had to be dragged kicking and screaming into that war by the Democrats who were claiming that he was soft on Islam.

[Doug Landau]

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 12:23:25 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 4:58:15 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
> > > Arguing this stuff is like trying to stomp on jello. The result is just
> > > several more blobs of jello that need stomping.
> > >
> >

> > Aw, it's no worse than the concept that native californians were repaid for their being taken as slaves by teaching them modern farming methods :-)
>
> Doug - the word "slave" comes directly from the the word "Slav". I am a Slav.
You're a troll

>So please don't tell me about slavery as if your German name gave you more knowledge about it.
You're basically foaming at the mouth, now

> The Missions did NOT kill the natives.
You're on a roll, keep going!

> Christianity always seems to be horrifying to atheists. Apparently the constant paganism and war that existed before Christian conversion was far superior in their minds.
Christianity is for idiots

> When California was ceded to the US after the Spanish American War these laborers were given the choice of becoming Californian citizens or returning home to Mexico and the vast majority returned to Mexico. The Mission system collapsed without farming to support them.
When your words ceded all cohesion, their nature as bait finally dawned on me :-)

[Duane]

You mean the war where Saddam invaded Kuwait? Or did the Donald
redefine that one as well?

What does any of this have to do with cycling? Isn't there a
alt.rightwingpolitics or some such?

[AMuzi]

Really? Most historians attribute the animus of Bin Laden,
KSM, etc to Gulf War I (summer of 1990) and US soldiers
positioned in The Kingdom. At least that's how Bin Laden
wrote it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[jbeattie]

Well, because of the poison gas from Iraq, Tom is no longer a Cat 1/2/3 (pick one). There is a close connection to cycling.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Duane]

Well I AM anxious to hear how Clinton started that war in 1990 when he
wasn't even elected until November 1992. My subscription to Fox News
must have expired.

[Jeff Liebermann]

True. Please show me where I did that. I did some rounding off, but
it was after 3 significant figures.

>30 lbs is not close enough to 33 lbs.

In order to make a fissionable device with 33 lbs of U-235, you would
need 100% enrichment, which is expensive, difficult, decays rapidly to
where it will not promote nuclear fission, and requires a Beryllium
reflector. You can compensate for these deficiencies by using more
U-235 at less than 100% and no reflector. The bomb dropped on
Hiroshima was built this way and contained 60kg (132lbs) of about 80%
enriched U-235.

>And 150 tons which would contain 159 * .75 = 1 1/8th tons is not
>close enough to a ton and a half estimation.

Where did your 150 tons number come from? Certainly not from anything

I wrote. I wrote:

> For Yellowcake to contain 1.5 tons (3000 lbs) of U235, the raw ore
> before enrichment would weigh
> 3000 / 0.0072 = 417,000 lbs.

Do you have a problem with that?

>Then we're told that in order for a terrorist force without
>nuclear facilities to make a dirty bomb they should use any of
>a series of elements that are not available without such facilities.

Such as which element that do not require a reactor? Natural uranium
doesn't make a very good dirty bomb, unless you want to bury a city in
dirt.

>Jeff - grow up.

If you can't attack the topic of discussion, you instead attack the
author? You can do better than that, or can you?

[Radey Shouman]

jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:

----------------%<--------------%<----------------------

>
> What does this have to do with Iraq? It wasn't involved in 911.

I recommend you rbt movers & shakers use your considerable moral suasion
to shame posters into providing an "Ob Bicycle" note. That ought to
slow the off-topic posts down to a reasonable rate.

Ob Bicycle: http://videosift.com/video/Butt-Brake

--

[jbeattie]

True. Yeah! Utah Cycling! The woman is wearing the old kit. My son and his cohorts created the new kit. http://attheu.utah.edu/home-page/best-road-bike-rides-in-salt-lake-city/ They also created a new team logo, which I thought looked like a dopey Biopace chainring. My son's comment was "what's Biopace?" http://www.utahcycling.org/

And even further OT, my son called the other day to get tips on negotiating a sponsorship deal and selling real estate on the jerseys. Seeing these kids take ownership of the business and organizational side of a bicycle club/racing team is heart warming in a capitalist kind of way. I told him to demand tax breaks or else the team would move to Mexico.

-- Jay Beattie.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 9:17:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:

The Gulf War had NOTHING to do with WMD and the Clinton declaration was specifically about that.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

nice teeth.

what is the routable screen called ?

gnaw is good....slight motion imparted thru ellipicity AAA proportions good...climb good....art major ?

the air in town is bad. I doahn see how yawl ignore this isnot like Seaside or Glouster...its stinks. The gulls throw up ....

[John B.]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 12:17:12 -0500, Duane <duane....@group-upc.com>
wrote:

Oh! Didn't you know Kuwait was invaded by bicycle mounted troops....
Or was that Malaysia?
--
cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

So, IOW, to Bush I's actions?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Doug Landau]

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 11:52:58 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:

Kool! Just have to be careful after not riding and putting on weight

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/5/2016 3:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> ...

>They also created a new team logo, which I thought looked like a dopey Biopace chainring. My son's comment was "what's Biopace?" http://www.utahcycling.org/

<sigh> History is never appreciated by the young.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I think that he forgets that this war was because the country of Libya took American hostages. They were freed and America went their own way leaving nothing more than sanctions.

[W. Wesley Groleau]

On 12-05-2016 12:15, Duane wrote:
> Well I AM anxious to hear how Clinton started that war in 1990 when he
> wasn't even elected until November 1992. My subscription to Fox News
> must have expired.

I am SO tired of hearing that Fox News lies.
Not that they don't, but because of the absurd
implication that the others don't.

--
Wes Groleau

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I think that you hit the nail on the head Wes. As a group the media has turn from what was supposed to be guardians of freedom to protectors of the political class.

[Frank Krygowski]

From what I've been able to tell, there are huge differences in both
the raw count and the magnitude of the lies.

For example:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/

Of course, the Fox fans will say that politifact.com is biased.

(I've heard the even reality itself is biased against Fox News!)


--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

My brother was a journalist major and then worked for a large newspaper in a large city in California. Very rapidly he discovered that virtually ALL of the news was manufactured and truth was only accidental since the idea of the news was to sell papers and advertising.

He quit the job and went to skill labor.

The present media has changed from what was once supposed to be those that put a warning shot over the bow of the government to protectors of the political establishment. Our founders must be rolling in their graves.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

I should also question that "improvement" - half truths are used solely to mislead. They are the worst type of lies.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/8/2016 12:37 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Our founders must be rolling in their graves.

I don't know about that. I visited Jefferson's grave this year. I heard
no rolling.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[W. Wesley Groleau]

On 12-08-2016 12:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/8/2016 12:37 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Our founders must be rolling in their graves.
>
> I don't know about that. I visited Jefferson's grave this year. I heard
> no rolling.

Jefferson is the fellow alleged to have written
"
The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
"

One of my ancestors was the founder of the first English newspaper in
Kansas, and I read the first two years of it. Today, they attempt to
APPEAR objective. Back then, there was no such pretense.

--
Wes Groleau

[AMuzi]

Oh that wacky Thomas Jefferson again. He lived so long and
wrote so much that any argument may be cited from both sides
with Jefferson quotations, to wit:


The basis of our government being the opinion of the
people, the very first object should be to keep that right;
and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a
government without newspapers, or newspapers without a
government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the
latter. But I should mean that every man should receive
those papers and be capable of reading them.

Letter to Colonel Edward Carrington (16 January 1787)

[Frank Krygowski]

Correct, at least, for many of them. Newspapers were used then like
Trump uses tweets today.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/8/2016 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/8/2016 3:58 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
>> On 12-08-2016 12:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2016 12:37 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Our founders must be rolling in their graves.
>>>
>>> I don't know about that. I visited Jefferson's grave this
>>> year. I heard
>>> no rolling.
>>
>> Jefferson is the fellow alleged to have written
>> "
>> The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
>> than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
>> "
>>
>> One of my ancestors was the founder of the first English
>> newspaper in Kansas, and I read the first two years of it.
>> Today, they attempt to APPEAR objective. Back then, there
>> was no such pretense.
>>
>
> Oh that wacky Thomas Jefferson again. He lived so long and wrote so much
> that any argument may be cited from both sides with Jefferson
> quotations, to wit:
>
>
> The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, the
> very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me
> to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or
> newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to
> prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those
> papers and be capable of reading them.
>

Which sort of jibes with my idea, that ideally, not just anybody would
be allowed to vote. (Yes, I know that's impossible these days.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

Fox news does lie n lies because the philosophic and moral logical and reasonable basis for what Fox reports FROM does not exist

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Six feet under encased in marble? You must have the hearing of a cat.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Tell me when Fox EVER did a real report on gun control. When did they do one single report on Obama's illegal activities? When Obama visited Greece last month he was met by crowds angry because they knew it was Obama that crashed the world's economies by printing immense amounts of dollars upon which the rest of the world's currency is based. They had loud LARGE protests and were even throwing Molotov Cocktails that trapped Obama in the American Embassy. Did you see that on ANY of the major media?

Obama suggested that he might move to Ghana after retiring and that is why he went to that country earlier this year. Obama is a homosexual and so he made comments in Ghana about how they should be nicer to homosexuals that are killed in most African nations. The President of Ghana was completely outraged and told Obama to get the hell out of his country and to never return. Did you hear ANYTHING like that?

Keep your stupid comments about Fox to yourself since you're not smart enough to know what's going on around you. Fox is nothing more than another part of the major media which is owned by only six corporations and kiss up to ANY government that is in power.

[Doug Landau]

"We look forward to working with you and your administration" Fox said to dubya before he even won

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/9/2016 12:41 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>

> Tell me when Fox EVER did a real report on gun control. When did they do one single report on Obama's illegal activities? When Obama visited Greece last month he was met by crowds angry because they knew it was Obama that crashed the world's economies by printing immense amounts of dollars upon which the rest of the world's currency is based.

Hmm. Where did you find that "because"? I'm finding that their
communist party doesn't like the U.S. because of, well, the usual
communist rhetoric:

"Communist party leader Dimitris Koutsoumbas described Obama’s visit as
a provocation.

“(The U.S.) is a state that causes military coups, interventions and
imperialist wars from Ukraine to the eastern Mediterranean, the Middle
East, North Africa, Asia and Latin America,” he told supporters."

I found nothing at all about printing lots of dollars. In fact, I'd bet
those guys would appreciate having some of our dollars.

> Obama suggested that he might move to Ghana after retiring and that is why he went to that country earlier this year. Obama is a homosexual...

Oh geez!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

I seriously believe we get these posts from TK when its time for medication -- Haldol, Risperdol . . . something strong. He becomes detached from reality, even the alternate Fox reality. Nobody would argue that the Euro is pegged to the Dollar or that the Greek debt crisis was caused by Fed policy. Like you said, the protests in Greece were by the same old leftists with the same old complaints. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-obama-greece-protests-leftists-anarchists-police-tear-gas/ To the extent that the US holds Greek debt payable in dollars, Greece would be thrilled if the dollar tanked. Unfortunately, it hasn't. Hope they hedged.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Doug Landau]

Tom Kunich?

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 3:40:36 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

> On 12/9/2016 12:41 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
>
> > Tell me when Fox EVER did a real report on gun control. When did they do one single report on Obama's illegal activities? When Obama visited Greece last month he was met by crowds angry because they knew it was Obama that crashed the world's economies by printing immense amounts of dollars upon which the rest of the world's currency is based.
>
> Hmm. Where did you find that "because"? I'm finding that their
> communist party doesn't like the U.S. because of, well, the usual
> communist rhetoric:
>
> "Communist party leader Dimitris Koutsoumbas described Obama’s visit as
> a provocation.
>
> “(The U.S.) is a state that causes military coups, interventions and
> imperialist wars from Ukraine to the eastern Mediterranean, the Middle
> East, North Africa, Asia and Latin America,” he told supporters."
>
> I found nothing at all about printing lots of dollars. In fact, I'd bet
> those guys would appreciate having some of our dollars.

Obama wasn't being protested by a single group but by multiple groups. His motorcade was pummeled by Molotov Cocktails and he was actually trapped inside of the US Embassy until the Greek military who ALSO don't like Obama cleared the streets.

Obama was in Peru and was cold shouldered by both the President of Peru and Putin with whom he was going to try to talk out of continuing to destroy ISIS.

> > Obama suggested that he might move to Ghana after retiring and that is why he went to that country earlier this year. Obama is a homosexual...
>
> Oh geez!

You needn't believe anything I have to say. But you might want to ask yourself why the children's birth certificates and adoption papers are as secret as Obama's educational records.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 3:40:36 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Frank, in 2012, there was an article in several places on the web that the UN weapons inspection team had discovered another 10,000 lds of WMD. This was only mentioned in passing while snopes swore up and down that no WMD had EVER been found. Just try and find that on the Internet today.

My point is that not only does the media keep you almost completely in the dark but there are professional clean-up artists that can erase MOST of the references on the web. How would you suppose that NO ONE could find Hillary's emails until suddenly they appeared (remember that the NSA records every single communication in the entire world.)

We are presently being told that Russia hacked the DNC and RNC when the results were so plainly that of a disgruntled Bernie supporter who blew the whistle.

Why would we be lied to? To put this country on the edge of a war? To suggest that the DNC was a tight-knit group that would never threaten one of their own?

Your article didn't mention Obama being berated by the Ghanain President for telling their Congress to be nice to LGBTQ!. In Ghana they kill homosexuals in disgust. Since Obama supposedly lived there as a young man (according to his autobiography) he would know that.

There was an article that was in several places circa late 2015 that Obama had said that he was going to move to Ghana after retirement. In reaction to that I said that the US should not provide Secret Service protection in a foreign country and started a small cloudburst of anger. Where are those articles now?

We see claims of fake news. Well that's easily enough generated. I was on Facebook and I arguing with the people there that they ought to actually KNOW what they're talking about before saying it: One woman said that corporations should be held responsible for pollution. I asked where these corporations polluting were. Most of the pollution in the USA is from the government itself and corporation ARE held responsible for anything that the EPA has cited them on.

Another said that corporate jets were responsible for polluting and I pointed out how stupid that was. There are some 11,000 corporate jets in the world and most of them are small two jet models. Every single day there are 102,000 commercial jet flights around the world and at any one minute there are 3,000 commercial flights in American airspace. So the corporate jet pollution is so small it isn't even on the board.

I was being actually cussed out on the groups. (fuck off you piece of shit) What did Facebook do about this? They censored ME. If truth is the inconvenient fact then eliminate it.

If you want to assign all of this to conspiracy theorists go right ahead. This is simply like me riding up Mt. Hamilton and seeing a wolf in the distance running for about a half mile before turning out of sight. The rangers said I didn't see any wolf because there are no wolves in California. But then there were no wolves in Yellowstone until they caught them on cameras at a waterhole.

[AMuzi]

On 12/10/2016 12:54 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 3:40:36 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/9/2016 12:41 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>-snippy snip-
>. . . riding up Mt. Hamilton and seeing a wolf in the distance running for about a half mile before turning out of sight. The rangers said I didn't see any wolf because there are no wolves in California. But then there were no wolves in Yellowstone until they caught them on cameras at a waterhole.
>

You imagined it, move along, nothing to see here.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article29889247.html

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 4:12:46 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:

Yeah, someone else is detached from reality but not you. Gotcha. Why do you speak when you have such an outstanding ignorance of the world around you?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/8484530/Americas-reckless-money-printing-could-put-the-world-back-into-crisis.html

I do not wish to have the same argument with you as I had with Arthur Laffer concerning the claim that this country is supposed to be running on Keynesian economics because you plainly do not understand the first thing about it.

Tell us, if you can, why the Federal Reserve Bank is called a Reserve Bank?

Tell us, if you can, what the effects of printing American currency would have on the world?

Under Obama there has been a steady over-printing of American currency to pay their bills. If don't understand that and WHY it's being do perhaps you are the one on very powerful meds.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Thanks for that reference Andrew.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 10:08:23 -0800 (PST), cycl...@gmail.com
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You needn't believe anything I have to say.

Good. I won't.

Tom, you have become a drooling idiot falling for and parroting fake
news. Good grief. "Obama's motorcade was pummeled by Molotov
cocktails?" It didn't happen. If it had, it would have been worldwide
headline news since it would have been an assassination attempt. There
were protests in Greece, some of them involving rocks and Molotov
cocktails- just none of them thrown at Obama.

You are entitled to your opinions. You are not entitled to make up
"facts" that aren't factual. Perhaps you should stop reading Breitbart
and its ilk, since they exist solely to lie to you and manipulate your
thinking.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 10:54:26 -0800 (PST), cycl...@gmail.com
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 3:40:36 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
> wrote:
>> On 12/9/2016 12:41 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Frank, in 2012, there was an article in several places on the web that
> the UN weapons inspection team had discovered another 10,000 lds of
> WMD. This was only mentioned in passing while snopes swore up and down
> that no WMD had EVER been found. Just try and find that on the
> Internet today.

Tom, there is no shotage of bullshit on the Internet. You seem to
believe much of it. Peraps you should get your BS detector checked. Or
at least make a tinfoil hat for yourself.

> My point is that not only does the media keep you almost completely in
> the dark but there are professional clean-up artists that can erase
> MOST of the references on the web. How would you suppose that NO ONE
> could find Hillary's emails until suddenly they appeared (remember
> that the NSA records every single communication in the entire world.)

The NSA does not record "every single communication in the world." That
would just not be possible. It records a lot of them, I am quite sure,
but not all of them.

I love the fixation on "Hillary's e-mails" while ignoring the glaring
incompetence, lies, frauds and deceptions of Donald Trump. Trump should
be in jail, not in the White House. But he will be the useful idiot,
the bright shiny distraction to keep the media away from the real agenda
of the Republican Party. There's a conspiracy, all right- you're just
missing it.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

Now how long have you been in engineering again? I know that I have working in EE for 50 years. But perhaps I'm wrong just because I helped the leader of a team get the Nobel Prize. And worked with another who won the Emmy for lifetime achievement just two years ago. But I'm sure those people just weren't picky about who was running their programs.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 11:36:18 AM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:

Tim. you really are a stooge aren't you? I'm fixated on "Hillary's emails" just because I happen to have a "secret" clearance and I would go to jail for 9 years or MORE if I so much as took the title page of a classified manual off a Federal reserve. She not only made Top Secret documents available to everyone in the world she ALSO made public many that were "black ops" that either identified American spies or had sufficient information which would identify them. And we then had MANY American spies executed in Iran and North Korea.

Can you tell us what clearances you have and what you do with them? I have used mine in MANY programs from quantum research to working on military weapons. I have worked with linear accelerators using power up to 120 million volts. Perhaps more since I can't remember my second time at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories.

Wait, that's something that can't be done right?

[AMuzi]

Not the sort of thing you'd see covered in NYT or television
news; spoils their narrative of Nobel prize, calming the
waters and all that.

Well covered around the world except in USA:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/732682/Barack-Obama-Greece-Athens-riot-protest-Alexis-Tsipras-politics-economy-European-Union

[AMuzi]

Donald Trump violated terms of his security clearance,
exposed official national documents, purposefully evaded the
FOIA act to cover up pay-to-play official corruption and all
the while fired underlings for lesser violations while head
of a Department? I missed that story. Got a link?

[jbeattie]

Let's review what you said: "When Obama visited Greece last month he was met by crowds angry because they knew it was Obama that crashed the world's economies by printing immense amounts of dollars upon which the rest of the world's currency is based."

That's wrong. There is no evidence that "printing dollars" has crashed the world economies. There is no evidence that "the worlds currencies" are "based on" the American dollar. There are a small number of currencies pegged to the USD. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/061015/top-exchange-rates-pegged-us-dollar.asp All others are floating, including the Euro. There is no evidence that the crowds in Greece were protesting because of Fed policy or the "printing" of USD.

The article you cite is an op ed piece talking about the slump in dollar value between 2002-2008. QE has not caused a dollar slump, and in fact, the dollar is stronger now that it has been in years. http://tinyurl.com/zgphw3o

Nothing stated in your post is capable of being proved. There is also no evidence that Obama is a homosexual. That's just another lunatic fringe made-up story. You spew lunatic fringe stories, so the assumption has to be that you are a lunatic.

-- Jay Beattie.

[jbeattie]

Sure it was covered in the USA. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-obama-greece-protests-leftists-anarchists-police-tear-gas/ http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2016-11-15/anti-obama-protesters-in-athens-to-test-police-ban I'm sure there are dozens of sites with reports.

It was just the same-old-same-old from the Greek communists and anarchists. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2016/1116/Why-are-Greeks-protesting-President-Obama-s-visit

No conspiracies. No hiding the facts. It's just that the facts are so unexciting when looked at for what they are.

-- Jay Beattie.

[AMuzi]

Good point. With such low opportunity cost, a week without
riots in Greece would probably be news.

[W. Wesley Groleau]

On 12-10-2016 13:28, Tim McNamara wrote:
> You are entitled to your opinions. You are not entitled to make up
> "facts" that aren't factual.

Why not? Ninety percent plus of politicians and hundreds of so-called
"journalists" are doing it.


--
Wes Groleau

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/10/2016 1:08 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 3:40:36 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/9/2016 12:41 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> Tell me when Fox EVER did a real report on gun control. When did they do one single report on Obama's illegal activities? When Obama visited Greece last month he was met by crowds angry because they knew it was Obama that crashed the world's economies by printing immense amounts of dollars upon which the rest of the world's currency is based.
>>
>> Hmm. Where did you find that "because"? I'm finding that their
>> communist party doesn't like the U.S. because of, well, the usual
>> communist rhetoric:
>>
>> "Communist party leader Dimitris Koutsoumbas described Obama’s visit as
>> a provocation.
>>
>> “(The U.S.) is a state that causes military coups, interventions and
>> imperialist wars from Ukraine to the eastern Mediterranean, the Middle
>> East, North Africa, Asia and Latin America,” he told supporters."
>>
>> I found nothing at all about printing lots of dollars. In fact, I'd bet
>> those guys would appreciate having some of our dollars.
>
> Obama wasn't being protested by a single group but by multiple groups. His motorcade was pummeled by Molotov Cocktails and he was actually trapped inside of the US Embassy until the Greek military who ALSO don't like Obama cleared the streets.

So, do you have a _real_ news source proving that he was attacked
because he wrecked the world economy, as you claimed? Seems to me the
world economy was in significantly better shape at the end of his term
than at the end of W's. Throwing trillions down a rat hole of an
invasion does kind of screw things up.

> You needn't believe anything I have to say.

Gotcha. Thanks.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

And clearly, they are succeeding.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Except that the reports (including those in U.S. news) do NOT
corroborate anything Tom said, except that there were riots in Greece -
yet again.

What did Tom get wrong? 1) The reason for the riots. 2) The attempt to
burn Obama to death. 3) The cover-up allegations. 4) The "fact" that
all currencies are linked to the U.S. dollar. 5) The "fact" that Obama
ruined the world economy... etc., etc.

We're in an age when someone can claim "Obama tried to have a senator
murdered!" And if the only "proof" is a video showing a senator slipping
on ice, some people would say "See? THAT'S PROOF!"

--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

If that was the case why did you deny it happened?

Not ONE of the local affiliated stations covered it. So claiming it was covered because the national organization covered it and then no normal person would ever hear of it is outright misrepresentation.

Throwing firebombs at the convoy of the President of the US isn't news to you huh? I must say that you will go to any extremes to forgive the liberal/media complex.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

The things that Frank got wrong:

1. The reasons for the riots since the real reasons of the world wide depression are covered in the earlier postings that show Frank so full of crap that he needs a sump pump.

2. I never said that they attempted to burn Obama to death but that is the usual sort of misrepresentation we can expect from the liberal mindset.

3. The cover-up? Why have we had more coverage of "Trump's felonies" (that are not criminal charges but a civil suit) than of Obama being asked to leave Nigeria or having firebombs thrown at Obama's motorcade? There is something EXTREMELY wrong with your perception of what is important and what isn't.

4. Frank - can you suggest why you don't know about the Bretton Woods Agreements?

5. The entire world gave Obama the cold shoulder at the Peru meeting but plainly you know more than the world's economic leaders.

Frank - why are you spouting a liberal line that is crap? That has ALWAYS been crap and will always be crap? This isn't MY opinion. This the fact as posited by the world's formost experts in virtually every single thing that Obama has messed in.

How is it that Obama-care was predicted to fail by every single economist capable of using a plain calculator, it failed and the liberals are telling us that we have to keep a useless system designed to give free medical care to illegal aliens? The law SAYS that it's only allowed for American Citizens but Obama's magic pen has 80% of all people receiving free Obama-care as illegal aliens.

Are you whacked out on drugs or something? What you are talking about is nothing more than purposeful ignorance.

[jbeattie]

Time to dose-up. I denied your assertion that Obama was the subject of protests because of Fed monetary policy. I didn't deny that Greek communists and anarchists protested during Obama's visit.

>
> Not ONE of the local affiliated stations covered it. So claiming it was covered because the national organization covered it and then no normal person would ever hear of it is outright misrepresentation.

Last time I checked, the national news from ABC/CBS/NBC is carried by its affiliates, and all of those networks carried the story.

>
> Throwing firebombs at the convoy of the President of the US isn't news to you huh? I must say that you will go to any extremes to forgive the liberal/media complex.

It was on ABC and CBS, NBC. http://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/protestors-riot-athens-against-obama-s-visit-n684711 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-obama-greece-protests-leftists-anarchists-police-tear-gas/ Reuters, AP -- every news service.

They did not throw fire bombs at Obama or his convoy. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/16/greek-police-use-tear-gas-stun-grenades-to-quell-anti-obama-protesters-in-athens.html

And one more time, it was the same old protests against the US for backing the coup in '67, among other things.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/12/2016 2:50 PM, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> The things that Frank got wrong:
>
> 1. The reasons for the riots since the real reasons of the world wide depression are covered in the earlier postings that show Frank so full of crap that he needs a sump pump.

Tom, your earlier postings claim that the Greek communists protested
because Obama personally ruined the world economy. AFAICT _nobody_ else
claims that.

> 2. I never said that they attempted to burn Obama to death but that is the usual sort of misrepresentation we can expect from the liberal mindset.

You said they threw Molotov coctails (i.e. fire bombs) at Obama's
limousine. First, that's false. Second, if they did, were they merely
hoping for a marshmallow roast?

Oh, forget it. It's too late at night here for either indulging or
combating conspiracy theories.


--
- Frank Krygowski