Consulting project: wisdom of crowds

[Frank Krygowski]

So, which bike to recommend?

A good friend lives about five miles out from a small town, out "in the
country" - which basically means, out where the houses are mostly older
but quite nice, on lots of an acre or more. Last year, I resurrected
her cheap, ancient bike and she began riding something like 6 miles
every morning on local country roads.

She has ambitions of doing longer rides (she's done 20 miles with us),
and she deserves and can afford a nicer bike. She tried my wife's old
touring Cannondale and was astounded at how nice it felt.

Another good friend has health problems, and offered to sell her either
of his two bikes. Trouble is, one is a racing oriented carbon fiber
Trek from the mid-90s, with 23mm tires and close ratio gearing with a
low of about 40-24 or 45 gear inches. It would be like buying a racing
Porsche for driving to the park.

His other bike is a heavy comfort bike, with 2" tires, suspension fork,
suspension seatpost, super-tall handlebars and all that. Seems to me
it's overkill in the other direction.

She'll probably never use the bike for utility trips, just exercise and
the occasional recreational ride. Wider tires would be nice for the
fairly rough roads around here, and low gears for hills because she's
not super-light nor in outstanding aerobic shape.

I'm thinking I'd recommend something with tires in the 28mm - 32mm
range, probably drop bars, maybe aluminum frame, STI or a clone,
non-disc brakes, gears down to 35 gear inches at least, no more than 9
cogs, ability to take racks and fenders. I'll probably join her on some
bike shop visits.

But it's been a while since I did any serious bike shopping. Just
wondering about opinions on types of bikes, particular models, or
anything else the crowd may recommend.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

who is the close dependable LBS brand bike ?

[Ned Mantei]

I wouldn't hesitate to go for 2" tires if any of those country roads are
unpaved. I very much like fat tires both on my mountain bike and on my
everyday bike. Good for unpaved roads, don't get caught in tram tracks
(obviously not a problem for your friend), more comfortable on bumps,
etc. I could also see advantages to a suspension fork and seatpost,
again depending on how good the roads are. Handlebar height and reach is
easy to vary. Could also depend on how old your friend is. Now in old
age I've switched to non-drop bars and a more upright riding position in
order to have less pressure on the hands.

Ned

[jbeattie]

Skip any cheapie road bike with shock forks. Those forks usually die an early death and are exceptionally sloppy before they go.

There are a million gravel bikes on the market now. Low BBs but plenty of room for big, fat tires. Some are relatively inexpensive: http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1185594_-1_401105__401105

These have discs, though.

If I were going for a one-bike-fits-all solution, I'd get a Niner or GT or Norco or maybe even Ridley gravel bike. I like Specialized, but I don't like their proprietary hub and through-axle arrangement. A lot of these bikes can be had in an aluminum version with conventional QRs. Slap on some narrow tires, and they perk right up for a fast weekend ride.

-- Jay Beattie.

[AMuzi]

If she were here we'd start with Bianchi Volpe or the
slightly cheaper version Bianchi Lupo.

Does she prefer step-through? Soma Buena Vista.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Peter Howard]

Surly CrossCheck complete, for no other reason than that it ticks a
number of your boxes and I've been very contented with my own variant
built on a CrossCheck frameset.

Pro: Drop Bars, V-brakes, up to 41mm tyres, brazeons for both front and
rear racks, brazeons for fenders, lowest gear way down there.
Con: Steel frame, comes with 10 speed cassette, bar-end shifters.

If she is a good friend and you're feeling generous you could start with
a frameset (nine sizes 42cm-62cm) and build it up for her yourself. Then
you could have STI and 9 speed cassette. The frameset will take either
caliper brakes or V-brakes/Cantilevers. The fork comes with an uncut
steerer tube so that the handlebar can be set anywhere from above seat
height to way down depending on the owners felxibility and preferences.
PH

[Duane]

Bianchi Volpe would be highly recommended by me. I just gave my 1994
Volpe to a friend who's wife needed a commuter. Very well made bike.

[avag...@gmail.com]

Mustang and Bianchi owners smile a lot......

[James]

I recently bought a new bicycle for my wife. It is a Polygon Path 9.

<http://www.polygonbikes.com/ww/bikes/description/2016-path-91>

Ok, it comes with a flat bar, but it was cheap and easy enough to fit
trekking bars like
<http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10053&langId=-1&categoryId=204993&metaData=&pageSize=&orderBy=&searchTerm=>
which offer multiple hand positions.

The hydraulic disc brakes are very nice, and it comes with full length
"fenders", hub dynamo and lights, rack and enough gears to climb Mt
Everest - well, almost.

In Australia it was delivered with a little assembly required for $999AUD.

--
JS

[John B.]

I prefer steel frames, mainly because I can then do almost anything I
want to them, but I do have an aluminum frame "utility bike" which is
an old mountain bike. I replaced the front forks with a solid aluminum
fork and added drop bars. At the moment it has 26" X 1.3" (or maybe
1.4") tires and it works fine.

Unless she is riding on dirt roads I don't think one needs to get
excited about tire width and gear ratios are largely a matter of
changing the cassette.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

a citroen SM isnot in odor

[Frank Krygowski]

Well, things can get more complicated. Examples:

Regarding gears: The barely-used Trek owned by a good friend has, as I
said above, a low gear of about 40-24, or 45 gear inches. The
close-ratio rear derailleur looked like it would top out at 28 teeth,
and the crankset looked like it wouldn't accept an inner chainring less
than 39 or so, since the existing chainring was right at the bolt
circle. I think significantly lower gears would mean a new cassette,
rear derailleur, crankset and maybe front derailleur.

Regarding tire width: I was in a bike store checking out some possible
bikes for her. The shop owner (who I'm friends with) showed us an
Avail/Liv bike that looked like a possibility, but it had 25mm tires. I
looked it over and said "It looks like she could easily fit 28s," but
the shop owner said "Not very well. The brakes don't open far enough,
see?" And indeed, she'd have to deflate to remove a wheel for
transporting the bike in her car. (BTW, since some of her riding is and
will be on a crushed limestone bike path, I think 28s make more sense.)

I do appreciate the suggestions, though. I've been emailing her the
relevant information.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

A bicycle co-op or Craig's List can be a great source for a bicycle that's fit her needs. THe low cost would means sh could customize the gearing to suit HER needs/wants.

I know a lort of people who buy a bicycle and didn't intend to rn errands w ith it but after getting the bike they enjoyed riding it so much thet started sing it for errands and light shopping.

One bicycle that I think makes a great, actually a fantastic, all rounder bike is a used rigid aluminium or steel frame MTB converted to dropbar. It's rugged enough to go just about anywhere. It can be fitted with 1.25/1.5 inch slicks for pavemet and or limestone surface trails and it can take a rack if the rider wants to carry some extras or stop at a store - errand. You can get a pair of brifters for very reasonable prices these days. Such bikes also usually have lots of room for fenders.

It can even keep the upright handlebar is that's what the person likes or how they prefer to ride.

I've converted many rigid frame MTBs to drobar and they sell very quickly.

Cheers

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 9:49:50 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> So, which bike to recommend?
>

> She has ambitions of doing longer rides (she's done 20 miles with us),
>

> She'll probably never use the bike for utility trips, just exercise and
> the occasional recreational ride. Wider tires would be nice for the
> fairly rough roads around here, and low gears for hills because she's
> not super-light nor in outstanding aerobic shape.
>

> I'm thinking I'd recommend something with tires in the 28mm - - 32mm

> range, probably drop bars, maybe aluminum frame, STI or a clone,
> non-disc brakes, gears down to 35 gear inches at least, no more than 9
> cogs, ability to take racks and fenders.

I think your recommendations are fairly good. 28mm tires are more than wide enough for rough roads and gravel paths. You do not need wider tires. As you stated, you may have trouble finding sidepull brakes that accommodate 28mm tires. But keep looking. For the ease of riding I suggest a racing style bike. Drops, STI, 28mm tires, sidepulls. Aluminum frame for lightness. Surly was recommended by others. But they are pigs and detract from any riding fun. Your friend needs a simple road bike that is not a racer, but not a touring bike. Cyclocross, maybe, maybe not. Better to go with a lightweight road bike. I am positive there are sidepull brakes that can accommodate 28mm tires. Keep looking.

Assume you will volunteer to do any initial setup and overhaul of a mail order or used bike. So look at the various mail order places that sell cheap bikes and have their own name brand bikes. Go with 10 speed cassette. Its been almost 15 years now since 9 speed was replaced with 10. 9 has zero advantages over 10. A road STI and road long cage will handle 32 cog easily. With a 34 compact in front, perfect low gear.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 12:32:11 PM UTC-5, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 9:49:50 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

> > I'm thinking I'd recommend something with tires in the 28mm - - 32mm
> > range, probably drop bars, maybe aluminum frame, STI or a clone,
> > non-disc brakes, gears down to 35 gear inches at least, no more than 9
> > cogs, ability to take racks and fenders.
>

Skip the rack and fenders too. If she is a recreational rider, she is not ever going to ride in the rain. Or any day where it looks like there might be rain. And on the rare occasion where it ends up raining during the ride, oh well. I have fenders on my touring bike and think they are essential for a touring bike. And maybe commuting bikes. Otherwise, no. Just more things to get out of whack.

And rear rack, no. A simple seatbag will hold everything she needs for any ride. No need to carry extra. Maybe she will start riding the bike to town and want to carry groceries home. Maybe. If so then use some P clamps to put a rack on, maybe. Or a backpack. I have a rear rack on my touring bike. Its useful there. But for in town short riding, backpack works fine.

[AMuzi]

You and I prefer skinny tires and I agree with you about
racks in that I had one on a bike for about a week, decided
it looked ugly and never actually used it. I do have
mudguards on both my urban bikes and wouldn't consider a
bike without them. Sunday morning bike? No thanks I'll go
out to breakfast and read the papers rather than ride
'recreationally' in the rain.

But we are not everyone and people do like what they like.

I suspect that the intended rider hasn't had enough riding
experience to form strong opinions and Frank ought to bear
that in mind when shopping for her.

p.s. nine speed or ten, whatever. A clean used bike with
nine is not unreasonable, support for both is ubiquitous now.

[avag...@gmail.com]

steel is real

8 is great

32 is cool

racks are a tool

lights are bright

with AA on sale

[Joerg]

On 2016-04-26 07:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> So, which bike to recommend?
>
> A good friend lives about five miles out from a small town, out "in the
> country" - which basically means, out where the houses are mostly older
> but quite nice, on lots of an acre or more. Last year, I resurrected
> her cheap, ancient bike and she began riding something like 6 miles
> every morning on local country roads.
>
> She has ambitions of doing longer rides (she's done 20 miles with us),
> and she deserves and can afford a nicer bike. She tried my wife's old
> touring Cannondale and was astounded at how nice it felt.
>
> Another good friend has health problems, and offered to sell her either
> of his two bikes. Trouble is, one is a racing oriented carbon fiber
> Trek from the mid-90s, with 23mm tires and close ratio gearing with a
> low of about 40-24 or 45 gear inches. It would be like buying a racing
> Porsche for driving to the park.
>

Nothing wrong with using a Porsche to drive to the park. See if the fork
and chain stays would support a more comfortable tire width like 28mm. I
ride 25mm all the time when on asphalt and on the occasional dirt/gravel
road, works nicely.

40-24 for a low may not work well. I had 42-21 and it was horrid. But
that can usually be fixed by mounting the steepest cassette the derailer
can handle which in my case was 11-32T. A MTB cassette on a road bike
might look funny but who cares?

> His other bike is a heavy comfort bike, with 2" tires, suspension fork,
> suspension seatpost, super-tall handlebars and all that. Seems to me
> it's overkill in the other direction.
>
> She'll probably never use the bike for utility trips, just exercise and
> the occasional recreational ride. Wider tires would be nice for the
> fairly rough roads around here, and low gears for hills because she's
> not super-light nor in outstanding aerobic shape.
>
> I'm thinking I'd recommend something with tires in the 28mm - 32mm
> range, probably drop bars, maybe aluminum frame, STI or a clone,
> non-disc brakes, gears down to 35 gear inches at least, no more than 9
> cogs, ability to take racks and fenders. I'll probably join her on some
> bike shop visits.
>

I'd strongly prefer disc brakes. Despite Russell and probably others not
liking a rack I'd advise to make sure that there are at least mounts for
one. Yeah, she may not do utility rides now. However, as she works up
her muscle strength and endurance she might discover what I did, that
almost any more or less local (as in <25mi distance) errand can be
handled by bicycle. Nothing beats the ability to strap a Fedex box to
the rack in seconds and zipping off into the distance. Or being able to
haul a growler home. Not having to wear a hydration pack also turned out
to be a real blessing in 105F weather, all the extra water is in the
panniers.

> But it's been a while since I did any serious bike shopping. Just
> wondering about opinions on types of bikes, particular models, or
> anything else the crowd may recommend.
>

Unless you'd volunteer to be her go to guy when something breaks it
would make sense to at least talk to the folks at a local bike shop. I
paid about $100 more than online for my MTB but it sure was worth it
when I had two warranty repairs.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Joy Beeson]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:25:38 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> And rear rack, no. A simple seatbag will hold everything she needs for any=
> ride.

You're forgetting that this a female rider. We *always* carry
something.

And she'll need mudguards. The less likely is it to rain, the more
likely it is that you'll ride through a puddle from a lawn sprinkler.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[jbeattie]

One can argue about the benefits of disc brakes on road bikes, but they're becoming SOP on exactly the type of bike Frank is looking at -- the modern version of the sport tourer, which is now called a "gravel bike."

The type of bike James' wife bought is also very popular around here. I saw lots of them by different manufacturers while walking around at lunch today: flat bar, rack and fender mount, discs, e.g.: https://www.rei.com/product/875009/novara-big-buzz-bike-2016

I see very few of the Gazelle type bikes, except under female hipsters. The male hipsters ride fixies. I'm doing a special for Nature on the cycling habits of hipsters. It's fascinating.

-- Jay Beattie.

[John B.]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:36:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Rear Derailers usually are concerned with the length of chain
necessary for the big ring/big cog and the small ring/small cog. Not
specific gear ratios. I own two bikes with normal "road" derailers and
50/42 chain ring and a 12 - 28 cassette that gave about a 39" bottom
gear.

As this old lady isn't "Man Mountain Dean" my guess is that a custom
cassette might be the best solution. Harris does, or did, sell 9 speed
cassettes in 13 - 30 and 14 - 34 which probably would work with a
"road" derailer, although the 14-34 is a 20 tooth difference and might
be iffy.

>Regarding tire width: I was in a bike store checking out some possible
>bikes for her. The shop owner (who I'm friends with) showed us an
>Avail/Liv bike that looked like a possibility, but it had 25mm tires. I
>looked it over and said "It looks like she could easily fit 28s," but
>the shop owner said "Not very well. The brakes don't open far enough,
>see?" And indeed, she'd have to deflate to remove a wheel for
>transporting the bike in her car. (BTW, since some of her riding is and
>will be on a crushed limestone bike path, I think 28s make more sense.)

Ah... if she is going to ride on crushed rock paths then certainly
tire width is going to be of interest.

Out of curiosity, couldn't you track down something like a Trek
touring model? Maybe second hand?

Or one of these "town bikes" with 26" wheels? (Yes I know the V-brakes
are extremely difficult to adjust) My "utility bike" is running on
1.4" (38mm) road tires and there is plenty of tire clearance.

As an aside, my average speed for, say a 20 Km, or longer, ride, is
essentially no different with the 26 inchers than my 300C-23 road
bike.

>I do appreciate the suggestions, though. I've been emailing her the
>relevant information.

Frank. This is rec.bikes! You are going to get suggestions whether you
appreciate it or not :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Joerg]

On 2016-04-27 17:19, jbeattie wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 3:43:19 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2016-04-26 07:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

No surprise there. There is a reason why discs became standard on cars
and motorcycles several decades ago, on cheaper versions at least in front.

> The type of bike James' wife bought is also very popular around here.
> I saw lots of them by different manufacturers while walking around at
> lunch today: flat bar, rack and fender mount, discs, e.g.:
> https://www.rei.com/product/875009/novara-big-buzz-bike-2016
>

I don't see those often here but was thinking about changing my drop bar
to a flat bar. Because I find myself riding with the hands on the top
most of the time. Racks are IMHO indispensible on a bike. It makes
errand runs or picking up some stuff during a ride so much easier and
eliminates the need to wear a hydration pack on hot summer days.

> I see very few of the Gazelle type bikes, except under female
> hipsters. The male hipsters ride fixies. I'm doing a special for
> Nature on the cycling habits of hipsters. It's fascinating.
>

:-)

My (now rather ancient) road bike has a Gazelle Trim Trophy frame. Ye
olde Reynolds 531.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 4/27/2016 8:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> One can argue about the benefits of disc brakes on road bikes, but they're becoming SOP on exactly the type of bike Frank is looking at -- the modern version of the sport tourer, which is now called a "gravel bike."

OK, about disc brakes: Admittedly, I have little experience with them.
I understand their advantages, but none of the folks I normally ride
with use them or feel they need them.

And the couple of disc brake bikes I've briefly ridden (on test rides,
e.g. after fixing a bike for a tourist passing through) left me with bad
impressions - like slight scraping sounds from the discs, which would
drive me nuts.

And it looks like many discs do complicate the fitting of
mudguards/fenders; and even if my friend doesn't put those on now, I
think the option should be available. And I'm a little worried about my
friend banging them up somehow by removing the front wheel and laying
the bike down inside her car.

Another factor for me is that I can still buy brake blocks for the 1972
brakes I fitted to the 3-speed bike I built a couple years ago. I don't
have as much confidence that disc brake pads will remain available (say)
10 years from now for every model of disc brake on the market.

But perhaps I'm worrying too much, because of unfamiliarity. So aside
from Joerg (who will always be a very special case), who here has discs
and ride them regularly? How long have you had them? Have you had any
particular annoyances?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 7:49:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Frank 0 there is absolutely no question - if she has ridden 20 miles and wants to expand her horizons she needs a road bike and not anything with energy sapping suspension.

I suppose you're talking about something like a Trek 2300 or so and that is REALLY a good bike for the sort of thing you're talking about. If memory serves it has enough room for 25 mm or perhaps wider tires and the older single axle brakes would open enough to let a 28 through.

Of course the most important thing is that the bike fit her and not almost fit her.

[James]

On 29/04/16 01:16, Frank Krygowski wrote:

>
> But perhaps I'm worrying too much, because of unfamiliarity. So aside
> from Joerg (who will always be a very special case), who here has discs
> and ride them regularly? How long have you had them? Have you had any
> particular annoyances?
>
>

I have mechanical disc brakes on my MTB. I've had the bike for maybe 5
years at a guess. I've done some wet muddy mountain biking, but more
road and gravel riding - where brake use and wear is less. I've maybe
only ridden it a couple thousand kilometres.

It took me a while to learn to adjust them properly, so that they don't
scrape, but still work well. Mind you, I haven't used it in wet muddy
conditions for a while, so the pads are not wearing fast enough to need
regular adjustment.

That said, my wife's new bike with hydraulic disc brakes work very
nicely, and I've borrowed and mountain biked on a hydraulic disc
equipped dual suspension MTB, and the brakes on it worked very nicely
too. Much better than rim brakes for mountain biking. More power with
less finger pressure, and much better modulation, which is important
when you're braking on slippery surfaces. They also don't eat the rim
and make a black mess, which I like.

--
JS

[jbeattie]

I ride a disc brake bike every day -- well, except when I ride my racing bike on the weekends. Obsolescence is always an issue, but the BB7 format seems to be enduring. I have the Shimano hydraulic road brakes on the Roubaix and have no idea how long that format will last. In fact, who knows if this new flat-mount format will take off and leave us old timers in the dust.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/07/09/shimano-announces-new-flat-mount-disc-brake-standard-for-road-bikes/ http://capovelo.com/sram-adopts-flat-mount-disc-brakes/

I feel sorry for the U-brake guys and the direct mount guys with superseded formats. You hope the brake parts remain available. I could be in that camp one day. It's not like buying a frame with a hole in the fork crown and brake bridge -- there is a bit of a risk.


Mechanical disc issues: pad life is (much) shorter than rim brakes, and you have to adjust more frequently to maintain maximum braking force. Drag isn't required and can be eliminated. I don't know what's up with my rear brake, but its a bitch to get adjusted to a point where it brakes well and doesn't drag. I think the long cable run makes it less responsive. They work well and are far better than rim brakes in wet weather. In dry weather, good dual pivots have a better feel.

Hydraulic discs: simplicity and complexity simultaneously. I've done nothing with mine, and I dread it when I have to drain them, put in pads, etc. I'll have to learn yet another bicycle task.

Hydraulic brakes are amazing -- wonderful light feel at the levers produces a lot of braking force, maybe too much force for the rear brake. I'm used to expecting less efficiency from my rear brake because of cable "stretch" and am a little ham-handed -- but it doesn't take long to adjust. Interestingly, the SRAM Red brakes on my SuperSix will lock up the rear wheel pretty easily, too -- so its not like road discs are an imperative in dry weather. Again, they shine in wet weather.

Discs are probably a good idea with some exotic CF rims because of notoriously crappy braking on CF rims, but I have no personal knowledge being that my mortgage lender and wife won't let me buy super exotic CF-only rims.

Changing a wheel is no big deal, although you have to get the disc in the caliper, which is easy enough. With the new through axle bikes, its practically automatic.

They now make disc specific racks (my son had one on his Kona Dew Drop), and getting fenders to fit is no problem. Most fenders now come with spacers or "posts." I did some creative bending to get my fenders to work on my CX commuter disc bike.

One giant plus is tire sizes. With no rim caliper to limit the tire size, the world is your oyster tire-wise, and you don't have to fuss around with cantilevers or v-brakes (which is more effort for some than others).

A negative is that you can't throw just any wheel into the bike if you need a quick change.

I'll think of more stuff as I ride home.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Ned Mantei]

On 28-04-16 23:24, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Frank 0 there is absolutely no question - if she has ridden 20 miles and wants to expand her horizons she needs a road bike and not anything with energy sapping suspension.

Not my experience at all. I don't notice any "energy sapping" with my
hardtail mountain bike; 80 km, ≈50 miles, is no problem. Also, this way
I can expand my horizons to very out of the way places with no traffic,
for example here https://flic.kr/p/x3zMKr or here
https://flic.kr/p/cHP9LJ Admittedly Jobst Brandt would have gone there
with 28 mm tires on a road bike, but he was a special case.

Ned

[Sir Ridesalot]

If I could ONLY HAVE ONE bicycle it'd be my rigid dropbar MTB bicycle. For mostly road I can mount 1.125 or 1.50 slicks and knobby tires for realy bad off-road riding. It has room and mounts for regular racks and fenders.

A lot of people I know have the same kind of bike I've built for them and they love it. They also use it for many errands even though they didn't think they'd be running errands with it. It's just so versatile.

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

a sports tourer is a gravel bike ?

hmmmm ....... news travels ....

the MTB idea is unusable across the board ...wipeout

abdominal muscle groups for MTB are inaccessible for women unless the woman is a trained athlete.

a classic sports tourer uses muscles groups used for roaming the area on foot.

an MTB is more climbing stairs climbing stairs climbing stairs .....

[AMuzi]

Schwinn Sports Tourer?
nice frame, like a Super Sport except for the BB shell:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/schss1.jpg

[Peter Howard]

On 29/04/2016 11:31 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/29/2016 8:17 AM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
>> a sports tourer is a gravel bike ?
>>
>> hmmmm ....... news travels ....
>>
>> the MTB idea is unusable across the board ...wipeout
>>
>> abdominal muscle groups for MTB are inaccessible for women unless the
>> woman is a trained athlete.
>>
>> a classic sports tourer uses muscles groups used for roaming the area
>> on foot.
>>
>> an MTB is more climbing stairs climbing stairs climbing stairs .....
>>
>>
>>
>
> Schwinn Sports Tourer?
> nice frame, like a Super Sport except for the BB shell:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/schss1.jpg
>

The BB shell wasn't the first thing that caught my attention about the
frame in the picture. It looks, uh, bent. Was it successfully resurrected?
PH

[AMuzi]

of course, that's what we do here:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/schss2.jpg

As an aside, by definition the BB shell is the first point
of alignment. Everything else references from the spindle
axis and faces.

[Frank Krygowski]

I'll never be Jobst's equal, but I have enjoyed riding roads like that
on 28mm tires. The most recent time was about three weeks ago, and it
was actually much rougher gravel than what appears in those photos.
(The guy I was riding with was on 23 or 25mm tires. He gave up and walked.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Out of curiosity, do you straighten aluminum frames as well?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Peter Howard]

Thank you for the "after" picture with the shiny and expensive looking
dropout alignment tool still in place. I never knew such a thing
existed. It looks very like the Park Tool one I found after a bit of
sleuthing and not as costly as I imagined. Knowing just where to push
and pull is the other thing though.....
PH

[AMuzi]

Generally no.
Our modern weldable aluminum alloys get a full temper (also
called 'rapid aging') after welding and initial alignment
and so do not lend themselves to nondestructive realignment.

[AMuzi]

Most of our alignment tools are Campagnolo:

http://www.velobase.com/ViewTool.aspx?ID=32fc06a7-76a1-41e7-9146-a98ae849d2a0&AbsPos=39

[jbeattie]

That's why gravel bikes are a big sell around here: http://adamschneider.net/photos/2008-08-bs/image/20080812-105410.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/z5wroa9
The forest roads are usually gravel or macadam:
http://watermanatwork.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/MtHoodNationalForest.jpg

And some are like little well-paved super-highways https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfHita90G8 with a-holes on motorcycles, but usually very low traffic.

A 28mm mid-pressure or tubeless tire is perfect for all of that.

-- Jay Beattie.

[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:31:55 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 4/29/2016 8:17 AM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
>> a sports tourer is a gravel bike ?
>>
>> hmmmm ....... news travels ....
>>
>> the MTB idea is unusable across the board ...wipeout
>>
>> abdominal muscle groups for MTB are inaccessible for women unless the woman is a trained athlete.
>>
>> a classic sports tourer uses muscles groups used for roaming the area on foot.
>>
>> an MTB is more climbing stairs climbing stairs climbing stairs .....
>>

Women can't climb stairs? The second story in the department store is
men only?
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Joy Beeson]

Now that it appears that my rotator cuff will won't allow me back on
the drop-bar bike in the foreseeable future, I've been putting a few
miles on my "comfort" fiddling-around-in-the-park bike -- the one I
use for a granny walker and pedal-powered wheelchair. I find that I'm
building up muscles that the road bike doesn't use.

So the day before yesterday, I went to the grocery store. If I hadn't
had perishables in the cute little basket, I'd have stopped at the
Trailhouse on the way home to have fenders fitted.

Refusing to ride in the rain doesn't mean that you don't need to be
prepared to get caught in a shower. (Or to ride through man-made
puddles.)

Luckily, the deluge started just as I reached Owen's porch, and blew
over while I was buying bread and meat. But I hit a lot of puddles on
the way home.

I'm re-thinking the idea of riding in cotton jeans.

[John B.]

On Mon, 16 May 2016 00:02:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>
>Now that it appears that my rotator cuff will won't allow me back on
>the drop-bar bike in the foreseeable future, I've been putting a few
>miles on my "comfort" fiddling-around-in-the-park bike -- the one I
>use for a granny walker and pedal-powered wheelchair. I find that I'm
>building up muscles that the road bike doesn't use.
>
>So the day before yesterday, I went to the grocery store. If I hadn't
>had perishables in the cute little basket, I'd have stopped at the
>Trailhouse on the way home to have fenders fitted.
>
>Refusing to ride in the rain doesn't mean that you don't need to be
>prepared to get caught in a shower. (Or to ride through man-made
>puddles.)
>
>Luckily, the deluge started just as I reached Owen's porch, and blew
>over while I was buying bread and meat. But I hit a lot of puddles on
>the way home.
>
>I'm re-thinking the idea of riding in cotton jeans.

Proper attire for ladies who ride bicycles
https://cyclehistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/women-riding-bicycles-1900.jpg

:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[Joy Beeson]

On Mon, 16 May 2016 17:19:48 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:

> Proper attire for ladies who ride bicycles
> https://cyclehistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/women-riding-bicycles-1900.jpg

When I have the fenders fitted, I should ask whether one can still buy
skirt guards.

--
Joy Beeson

[John B.]

On Mon, 16 May 2016 21:52:11 -0300, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2016 17:19:48 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>> Proper attire for ladies who ride bicycles
>> https://cyclehistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/women-riding-bicycles-1900.jpg
>
>When I have the fenders fitted, I should ask whether one can still buy
>skirt guards.

You probably can as I see them fitted on what might be termed "family
bikes" here.

Oops! I just googled on "bicycle skirt guard" and there were almost a
million hits. Apparently they are more popular than one might think
:-)

For the do it yourself group see
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/63402307228315687/
for some pretty flamboyant examples.
--
cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1012687-turkey-meatloaf?em_pos=large&emc=edit_nn_20160517&nl=morning-briefing&nlid=71480105

[Frank Krygowski]

The final report: After four months of research, procrastination,
dithering, bike shop visits, model changes, shipment delays, shops
closing for vacations, frame fit problems, etc., our friend finally
bought a bike. My wife and I spent a full 12 hours today driving around
to distant bike shops with her and helping her choose. (Jay, I'm really
jealous of your situation with bike shops on both sides of every Starbucks!)

She ended up with a Bianchi Volpe, a 2014 model that was still in the
box when we called to say we were coming. Because of the model year,
the shop took $300 off the list price. Unlike some shops we visited
today, they were happy to swap out the incredibly knobby 'cross tires
for Paselas, and swap out the pedals. The shop finished the assembly
while we waited and did, I think, a good job of adjusting for fit.

It's all steel, Tiagra ten speed (she'd have been happy with eight),
triple crank instead of compact (which she likes), probably room for 37
mm tires if she wanted (it's got 32 mm now), eyelets for fenders and
racks, lots of spokes, cantilever brakes, interrupter levers, etc.
Interestingly, the older model year bestowed the nice internal cam quick
releases instead of "modern" inferior external cam QRs.

My only quibbles are these: The stem may need replaced with a slightly
shorter one. I think she looks very slightly stretched out; but that's
an easy fix if she finds it's not comfortable. And I wish the bottom
bracket were a bit lower, i.e. touring bike style rather than cyclocross
style.

Special thanks to Andrew Muzi for recommending that model. I think it
will serve her well. She's a happy lady.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

What was the actual cash purchase price, if it isn't impertinent to
ask. I know you said it is $300 off but what was the list price?

Another question. Here if the list price is, say 35,000 baht (U.S.
$1,000) and one gets serious about buying, it would be normal for the
Dealer to either give a cash discount or perhaps fit much better
pedals or maybe replace the cassette with a different set of gears or
otherwise "give you a deal".

Is it different back in the World ?
--
cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

List was $1300. She got it for $1000. One of the other shops did offer
a slight discount (our club discount) on a much less expensive bike, and
the others were not interested in "dealing" at all on current models of
bikes. Even trading out the totally unsuitable knobby tires on that same
bike was getting resistance at one shop. (Those cyclocross tires felt
like riding on ball bearings or something. They were actually scary in
turns.)

I should note, though, that neither my friend no I try to dicker on
price in normal situations. The only reason I asked (by phone) about the
price is that the list price on this bike was nearly double that of
other bikes she was considering. Given that it was essentially NOS, it
made sense to ask before making the nearly hour drive.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Perennially popular, the current model Volpe is back to
normal touring tires again.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/31/2016 11:55 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> Perennially popular, the current model Volpe is back to normal touring
> tires again.

Good idea.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:33:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Over here is considered a normal practice. To the extent that if you
look even a little bit interested and you ask a price and than
hesitate a little, like you really are considering the matter, usually
the sales person will say something, "of course, for you there would
be a discount".

On the other hand it would be a major faux pas to negotiate for hours
and than say something like, Well, maybe next time" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.