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Consumerism is a religion
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Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 14, 2016, 9:32:58 PM5/14/16
to
On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 5:16:18 PM UTC-4, Vito wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:20:28 -0700, Thomas <xs...@xmail.com> wrote:
> >Shell oil hired a bunch of scientists to lie. They did their own research
> >and came up with the same answers the rest of the scientific community
> >has. Shell's PR people lied to the public about climate change, but
> >corporate believed the scientists and changed their planning in the arctic
> >because of it.
>
> The "lie" is that we can somehow stop global warming by putting up
> windmills and other measures straight out of a 1800's rainmaker's bag
> of tricks. The purpose of that lie is to extort money.
>
> The mourning paper reports a 'find' showing that people inhabited
> Florida a couple thousand years earlier than previously thought. It
> mentions a "dig" that is under water because (drum roll) Florida was
> once 3x bigger than it is now. It shrank thanks to global warming over
> the past 15,000 years. And sure enough global warming and shrinking
> land mass continues to this day - maybe even accelerated by human
> activity. Even assuming the last is true, it will not be stopped by
> band aids like eliminating 2-stroke motorcycles or using wind/solar
> power. The only solution is drastic population reduction and that is
> hardly viable. Worse, even that would only lessen the "man-made"
> part. The main thrust will continue. There is zip you or I can do
> about that. So I opt to ignore it and enjoy what life I have left
> rather than junk my bikes and ride a bicycle. If tou want to play
> Sisyphus be my guest but I'd suggest a nice ride instead. ....
Even if we are fighting a losing battle, there's a moral dimension: You are either doing good or doing evil. Are you a soldier of Islam or freedom?
Freedom to do good or evil. I don't want to be forced to do evil. Sorry, consumerism is a religion.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life's cheap, profits are sacred"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nffbCR_uCZ6znjf3gLiFRXSAoLzhWtoZ6U4S7Y37aKc/edit?usp=sharing
> On Sat, 14 May 2016 06:20:28 -0700, Thomas <xs...@xmail.com> wrote:
> >Shell oil hired a bunch of scientists to lie. They did their own research
> >and came up with the same answers the rest of the scientific community
> >has. Shell's PR people lied to the public about climate change, but
> >corporate believed the scientists and changed their planning in the arctic
> >because of it.
>
> The "lie" is that we can somehow stop global warming by putting up
> windmills and other measures straight out of a 1800's rainmaker's bag
> of tricks. The purpose of that lie is to extort money.
>
> The mourning paper reports a 'find' showing that people inhabited
> Florida a couple thousand years earlier than previously thought. It
> mentions a "dig" that is under water because (drum roll) Florida was
> once 3x bigger than it is now. It shrank thanks to global warming over
> the past 15,000 years. And sure enough global warming and shrinking
> land mass continues to this day - maybe even accelerated by human
> activity. Even assuming the last is true, it will not be stopped by
> band aids like eliminating 2-stroke motorcycles or using wind/solar
> power. The only solution is drastic population reduction and that is
> hardly viable. Worse, even that would only lessen the "man-made"
> part. The main thrust will continue. There is zip you or I can do
> about that. So I opt to ignore it and enjoy what life I have left
> rather than junk my bikes and ride a bicycle. If tou want to play
> Sisyphus be my guest but I'd suggest a nice ride instead. ....
Even if we are fighting a losing battle, there's a moral dimension: You are either doing good or doing evil. Are you a soldier of Islam or freedom?
Freedom to do good or evil. I don't want to be forced to do evil. Sorry, consumerism is a religion.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life's cheap, profits are sacred"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nffbCR_uCZ6znjf3gLiFRXSAoLzhWtoZ6U4S7Y37aKc/edit?usp=sharing
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 14, 2016, 11:54:05 PM5/14/16
to
On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 10:25:11 PM UTC-4, competeti...@gmail.com wrote:
> Consumerism isn't a religion. It's an innate and inherent desire to
> acquire items, artifacts, devices and goods to reduce one's workload,
> provide comfort, sustain nutrition, and provide the means to satisfy
> the psychological necessity of self esteem.
>
> Religions always have "magic stories", and inaccurate explanations to
> satisfy unanswered questions which have scientific basis.
>
> ---
If you are unable to address the validity of the "faith" (faith in the market) as if it worked some "magic," then you are considering not a faith, but a radical religion.
> acquire items, artifacts, devices and goods to reduce one's workload,
> provide comfort, sustain nutrition, and provide the means to satisfy
> the psychological necessity of self esteem.
>
> Religions always have "magic stories", and inaccurate explanations to
> satisfy unanswered questions which have scientific basis.
>
> ---
If you are unable to address the validity of the "faith" (faith in the market) as if it worked some "magic," then you are considering not a faith, but a radical religion.
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 15, 2016, 3:58:40 AM5/15/16
to
On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 1:37:58 AM UTC-4, Vito wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2016 20:38:12 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Denying reality helps in dealing with any sense of guilt. I think facing the kids is the hardest part.
>
> The ultimate dinial of reality is to pretend that we can do anything
> about global warming. What makes denying mans' role any worse than
> claiming that riding a bicycle and building windmills is going to fix
> it?
Yeah, playing and having fun like a kid riding a bicycle is such a big sacrifice. 😐
Shopping at the mall is so much cooler.
> On Sat, 14 May 2016 20:38:12 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Denying reality helps in dealing with any sense of guilt. I think facing the kids is the hardest part.
>
> The ultimate dinial of reality is to pretend that we can do anything
> about global warming. What makes denying mans' role any worse than
> claiming that riding a bicycle and building windmills is going to fix
> it?
Yeah, playing and having fun like a kid riding a bicycle is such a big sacrifice. 😐
Shopping at the mall is so much cooler.
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 15, 2016, 10:53:27 AM5/15/16
to
On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 8:00:00 AM UTC-4, Vito wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2016 00:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> lead a sorry life. There are so many more enjoyable and productive
> things to do - like a few guys here riding motorcycles in Europe or
> here in the USA. But that avoids the question of honesty. Riding
> your bicycle for fun is one thing, claiming that you are preventing
> global warming by doing so is another.
Morality and having fun must go together. You shall not do one at the expense of the other.
By the way, I think motorcycling is an activity fairly high in fun and morality. At least you are not driving an SUV with tinted windows. You can not deny the social aspect and live in isolation though. You must rely on the cooperation of other drivers.
I bet you find driving in "overcrowded Europe" more rewarding. I hear the UK is the most overcrowded. Are they fighting each other like rats?
The rat race is most notorious here.
> On Sun, 15 May 2016 00:56:02 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 1:37:58 AM UTC-4, Vito wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 May 2016 20:38:12 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> >> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Denying reality helps in dealing with any sense of guilt. I think facing the kids is the hardest part.
> >>
> >> The ultimate dinial of reality is to pretend that we can do anything
> >> about global warming. What makes denying mans' role any worse than
> >> claiming that riding a bicycle and building windmills is going to fix
> >> it?
> >
> >Yeah, playing and having fun like a kid riding a bicycle is such a big sacrifice. ?
>
> >On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 1:37:58 AM UTC-4, Vito wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 May 2016 20:38:12 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> >> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Denying reality helps in dealing with any sense of guilt. I think facing the kids is the hardest part.
> >>
> >> The ultimate dinial of reality is to pretend that we can do anything
> >> about global warming. What makes denying mans' role any worse than
> >> claiming that riding a bicycle and building windmills is going to fix
> >> it?
> >
> >
> >Shopping at the mall is so much cooler.
>
> I'm sorry your alternatives are mall shopping and bicycling. You must
> >Shopping at the mall is so much cooler.
>
> lead a sorry life. There are so many more enjoyable and productive
> things to do - like a few guys here riding motorcycles in Europe or
> here in the USA. But that avoids the question of honesty. Riding
> your bicycle for fun is one thing, claiming that you are preventing
> global warming by doing so is another.
Morality and having fun must go together. You shall not do one at the expense of the other.
By the way, I think motorcycling is an activity fairly high in fun and morality. At least you are not driving an SUV with tinted windows. You can not deny the social aspect and live in isolation though. You must rely on the cooperation of other drivers.
I bet you find driving in "overcrowded Europe" more rewarding. I hear the UK is the most overcrowded. Are they fighting each other like rats?
The rat race is most notorious here.
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 15, 2016, 11:23:06 AM5/15/16
to
On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 6:44:56 AM UTC-4, kanga...@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, that may be the spiritual side of religion, but not the rigidity of it. You must observe strict rules on this earth to qualify for its rewards. Are profits questionable?
> On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 10:50:48 PM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher wrote:
> > If you are unable to address the validity of the "faith" (faith in the market) as if it worked some "magic," then you are considering not a faith, but a radical religion
> .....well...i tend to think that the rediculous amount of debt that educated folks get involved with ...tends to be their mental copout or crutch against their stupidity of the whole affair..and religion to me is associated with the faith that there is a life after death...not in the physical sense though....ie...oxygen will not be needed or necessary for this eternal life to continue...jz
> > If you are unable to address the validity of the "faith" (faith in the market) as if it worked some "magic," then you are considering not a faith, but a radical religion
Yeah, that may be the spiritual side of religion, but not the rigidity of it. You must observe strict rules on this earth to qualify for its rewards. Are profits questionable?
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 15, 2016, 9:44:06 PM5/15/16
to
On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 5:28:29 PM UTC-4, competeti...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 10:56:24 AM UTC-4, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 8:08:45 AM UTC-4, competeti...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > in groups on a macro level and how they assemble, and choose to act, believe,
> > > and create systems. It's called Sociology. The occurrence of what we call
> > > "religion" has specific parameters. "Consumerism", while a specific cultural
> > > behavior pattern, falls within the guise of economics and psychology, not
> > > religion.
> > >
> > > ---
> >
> > You think the fact that ISIS is at war against consumerism is pure coincidence?
>
> Isis equals Islamic Radicalization, therefore Isis qualifies as a religion.
> That Isis is at war with those more powerful than they, that they seek to
> destroy cultures which are different from theirs, that they are
> neo-medievalists... are all expressions of their ignorance born from
> a skewed interpretation and extrapolation of the Koran. Their xenophobia
> combined with blatant hypocrisy and homicide defines them.
>
> However just because their religious delusions cause them to fixate on various
> targets, does not cause the targets themselves to become religions.
> Consumerism is a thing in and of itself, created, defined and maintained
> by free commerce and the need for individuals to attain goods and services.
>
> Your premise is flawed. Consumerism isn't a religion. It also at times
> isn't very good for the planet, but it still isn't a religion.
>
> ---
ISIS vs Christianity or good vs evil, right?
The Christians represent, of course, progress and trade, civilization and democracy...
Kind of the same dilemma between settlers and Indians. Now that they have been subdued, we can spread Walmarts and parking lots throughout what once was home to nomadic tribes. Make no mistake, they were terrorists too.
Yeah, we have put together the pill that everybody must swallow. Once they accept Jesus, they'll be happy.
It kind of reminds me of this quote:
When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. -Desmond Tutu
Read more at: http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/desmondtut107531.html
> On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 10:56:24 AM UTC-4, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 8:08:45 AM UTC-4, competeti...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 11:50:48 PM UTC-4, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Consumerism isn't a religion. It's an innate and inherent desire to
> > > > > acquire items, artifacts, devices and goods to reduce one's workload,
> > > > > provide comfort, sustain nutrition, and provide the means to satisfy
> > > > > the psychological necessity of self esteem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Religions always have "magic stories", and inaccurate explanations to
> > > > > satisfy unanswered questions which have scientific basis.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Consumerism isn't a religion. It's an innate and inherent desire to
> > > > > acquire items, artifacts, devices and goods to reduce one's workload,
> > > > > provide comfort, sustain nutrition, and provide the means to satisfy
> > > > > the psychological necessity of self esteem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Religions always have "magic stories", and inaccurate explanations to
> > > > > satisfy unanswered questions which have scientific basis.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > If you are unable to address the validity of the "faith" (faith in the market) as if it worked some "magic," then you are considering not a faith, but a radical religion.
> > >
> > > Oh, I addressed it. There's already a discipline which examines human behavior
> > >
> > > in groups on a macro level and how they assemble, and choose to act, believe,
> > > and create systems. It's called Sociology. The occurrence of what we call
> > > "religion" has specific parameters. "Consumerism", while a specific cultural
> > > behavior pattern, falls within the guise of economics and psychology, not
> > > religion.
> > >
> > > ---
> >
> > You think the fact that ISIS is at war against consumerism is pure coincidence?
>
> Isis equals Islamic Radicalization, therefore Isis qualifies as a religion.
> That Isis is at war with those more powerful than they, that they seek to
> destroy cultures which are different from theirs, that they are
> neo-medievalists... are all expressions of their ignorance born from
> a skewed interpretation and extrapolation of the Koran. Their xenophobia
> combined with blatant hypocrisy and homicide defines them.
>
> However just because their religious delusions cause them to fixate on various
> targets, does not cause the targets themselves to become religions.
> Consumerism is a thing in and of itself, created, defined and maintained
> by free commerce and the need for individuals to attain goods and services.
>
> Your premise is flawed. Consumerism isn't a religion. It also at times
> isn't very good for the planet, but it still isn't a religion.
>
> ---
ISIS vs Christianity or good vs evil, right?
The Christians represent, of course, progress and trade, civilization and democracy...
Kind of the same dilemma between settlers and Indians. Now that they have been subdued, we can spread Walmarts and parking lots throughout what once was home to nomadic tribes. Make no mistake, they were terrorists too.
Yeah, we have put together the pill that everybody must swallow. Once they accept Jesus, they'll be happy.
It kind of reminds me of this quote:
When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. -Desmond Tutu
Read more at: http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/desmondtut107531.html
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
May 16, 2016, 10:09:14 AM5/16/16
to
On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 1:00:43 AM UTC-4, Vito wrote:
Well, that's the way it's presented for the world.
> >
> >The Christians represent, of course, progress and trade, civilization and democracy...
>
> No, Greeks and Romans represented progress, civilization, trade and
> democracy. Christianity opposes all of those things.
At some point in time, it was the Arabs that represented progress, civilization, trade. Christians are part of the globalization process and the main exporters of "democracy" and Jesus. Very ethereal concepts, you know.
> >
> >Kind of the same dilemma between settlers and Indians. Now that they have been subdued, we can spread Walmarts and parking lots throughout what once was home to nomadic tribes. Make no mistake, they were terrorists too.
>
> When western man arrived the aboriginals (Indians) had no knowledge of
> iron or the wheel or draft animals or even what made babies. They
> made very inefficient use of land and resources, driving bison off
> cliffs to slaughter 1000s. By the time Euros began settling the US
> over 90% of the natives had died from the diseases the Spanish had
> inadvertantly brought.
>
> You may put a moral value on that. Nature does not.
I know only know of one incident (some 8 thousand years ago) when the Indians drove thousands of bisons into a cliff. But it took the white man a few decades to drive them into near extinction.
American Indians enjoy similar standards of living to the Africans, so the lucky ones are dead. They are deprived of mobility and die of obesity and diabetes at a much early age than, say, Cubans.
We should be sending bicycles to Africa and Indian reservations. Not what the missionaries bring.
> On Sun, 15 May 2016 18:38:02 -0700 (PDT), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most
> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >ISIS vs Christianity or good vs evil, right?
>
> Wrong. You are a nutter.
> Humble Philosopher" <thetibet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >ISIS vs Christianity or good vs evil, right?
>
Well, that's the way it's presented for the world.
> >
> >The Christians represent, of course, progress and trade, civilization and democracy...
>
> democracy. Christianity opposes all of those things.
At some point in time, it was the Arabs that represented progress, civilization, trade. Christians are part of the globalization process and the main exporters of "democracy" and Jesus. Very ethereal concepts, you know.
> >
> >Kind of the same dilemma between settlers and Indians. Now that they have been subdued, we can spread Walmarts and parking lots throughout what once was home to nomadic tribes. Make no mistake, they were terrorists too.
>
> iron or the wheel or draft animals or even what made babies. They
> made very inefficient use of land and resources, driving bison off
> cliffs to slaughter 1000s. By the time Euros began settling the US
> over 90% of the natives had died from the diseases the Spanish had
> inadvertantly brought.
>
> You may put a moral value on that. Nature does not.
I know only know of one incident (some 8 thousand years ago) when the Indians drove thousands of bisons into a cliff. But it took the white man a few decades to drive them into near extinction.
>
> >
> >Yeah, we have put together the pill that everybody must swallow. Once they accept Jesus, they'll be happy.
> >
> >It kind of reminds me of this quote:
> >
> >When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. -Desmond Tutu
> > Read more at: http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/desmondtut107531.html
>
> And yet Africans are far better off for it.
> >
> >Yeah, we have put together the pill that everybody must swallow. Once they accept Jesus, they'll be happy.
> >
> >It kind of reminds me of this quote:
> >
> >When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. -Desmond Tutu
> > Read more at: http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/desmondtut107531.html
>
American Indians enjoy similar standards of living to the Africans, so the lucky ones are dead. They are deprived of mobility and die of obesity and diabetes at a much early age than, say, Cubans.
We should be sending bicycles to Africa and Indian reservations. Not what the missionaries bring.
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