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Emanuel Berg

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Jul 23, 2017, 7:44:38 PM7/23/17
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1) What does for example 7075-T6 mean? I read
it is stell alloy and heat treatment but
what do the digits and letters mean, or are
they just a designation so you can look up
the properties, and if so where?

2) A guy has had a flat tire several times but
the tire looks OK. The suspicion is, if the
rim tape is too broad for the rim so it
forms a flat "U" letter, and what happens is
the ends cut thru the tube. Is this heard
of? The rim tape is from Specialized.
It looks a little broad but I wouldn't have
noticed unless there was this
little mystery.

3) On a boat I'm working on, there are several
cases where the screws are loose in their
holes. What do you typically do?
Get a longer screw? Or do you use Loctite,
crazy-glue, etc.?

Thank you :)

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

AMuzi

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Jul 23, 2017, 8:12:54 PM7/23/17
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1. 7075 is a material. It's an aluminum with a specific
alloy composition.
T6 is a temper/hardness finish value.
Details here:
http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/blog/understanding-the-aluminum-alloy-designation-system.cfm

2. I do not know but you can. Mark your tire, rim and valve
before removing the tube. Inflate tube, mark the leak. The
injury will either be on the outside = tire problem or it
will be on the inside = rim/rim liner problem.

If your rim liner occludes the tire bead seat, blue in image
here:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/rimpins.jpg
then the tire will be difficult or impossible to seat
properly. Other problems may ensue as well. Note center rim
style takes a fabric or polyurethane liner, left and right
use a rubber liner.

3. Assuming this is a wooden boat, I would consult a man who
knows wooden boats.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


John B. Slocomb

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Jul 23, 2017, 9:30:14 PM7/23/17
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 01:44:33 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>1) What does for example 7075-T6 mean? I read
> it is stell alloy and heat treatment but
> what do the digits and letters mean, or are
> they just a designation so you can look up
> the properties, and if so where?
>
7975 is a specific aluminum alloy which contains zinc among other
elements and is probably the strongest of the various aluminum alloys.

It was developed in Japan in 1943 and was, perhaps, one of the reasons
that Japanese aircraft had such good performance.

The "T" designation is a designation of physical properties usually
brought about by a combination of heat treatment and age hardening.

T0 has a tensile strength of ~280MPa and a yield strength of ~140 MPa
while T6 has a tensile strength of ~540 MPa and a yield strength of
~480 MPa.

There are 5 (if I remember correctly) different codes used for 7075.

>2) A guy has had a flat tire several times but
> the tire looks OK. The suspicion is, if the
> rim tape is too broad for the rim so it
> forms a flat "U" letter, and what happens is
> the ends cut thru the tube. Is this heard
> of? The rim tape is from Specialized.
> It looks a little broad but I wouldn't have
> noticed unless there was this
> little mystery.
>
>3) On a boat I'm working on, there are several
> cases where the screws are loose in their
> holes. What do you typically do?
> Get a longer screw? Or do you use Loctite,
> crazy-glue, etc.?
>
>Thank you :)

If this is a "wood screw" depending on what the screw is holding
perhaps a larger diameter screw. If a "machine screw" then perhaps
loctite.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 23, 2017, 10:14:52 PM7/23/17
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AMuzi wrote:

> [...]

Excellent, thank you!

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 23, 2017, 10:26:26 PM7/23/17
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John B. Slocomb wrote:

> If this is a "wood screw" depending on what
> the screw is holding perhaps a larger
> diameter screw. If a "machine screw" then
> perhaps loctite.

It is all big wood screws. A larger diameter
won't do as it'll then be too big to pass thru
the hole of whatever it is it should hold.

Could you fill the hole with something and then
screw anew?

Or forget about the screw and glue the detail?
Will that carry enough strength, and
be resistant?

Typically it is three screws in a circle, and
one of them is loose.

Sir Ridesalot

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Jul 23, 2017, 10:46:12 PM7/23/17
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Epoxy in a wood plug. When cured drill the plug and insert the screw.

Cheers

David Scheidt

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Jul 23, 2017, 10:55:25 PM7/23/17
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Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:
:John B. Slocomb wrote:

:> If this is a "wood screw" depending on what
:> the screw is holding perhaps a larger
:> diameter screw. If a "machine screw" then
:> perhaps loctite.

:It is all big wood screws. A larger diameter
:won't do as it'll then be too big to pass thru
:the hole of whatever it is it should hold.

:Could you fill the hole with something and then
:screw anew?

In general carpentry, the solution is to drill the hole in the wood out
to a standard size, and glue with wood glue a dowel (wooden rod) the same
size as the drilled hole in the hole. Once the glue is dry, cut it flush
with the surface with a chisel, redrill the hole, reinstall the screw.
The end result is at least as good as new, often better. I have done
this for countless door hinge screws, and my carpentry tool bag has a
selection of dowels cut to 2" lengths for the purpose. Sometimes, it
makes sense to replace a bigger section of wood, but the general idea is
the same. For things that don't carry much load, a couple wooden match
sticks or toothpicks stuck around the edge of the hole can give the screw
something to bite on.

I would expect you could do something similar on a boat, but I'd take
expert advice on what glues are suitable.


--
sig 20

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 23, 2017, 11:23:38 PM7/23/17
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David Scheidt wrote:

> In general carpentry, the solution is to
> drill the hole in the wood out to a standard
> size, and glue with wood glue a dowel (wooden
> rod) the same size as the drilled hole in the
> hole. Once the glue is dry, cut it flush with
> the surface with a chisel, redrill the hole,
> reinstall the screw.

Any preference what woods the dowel should be?

The same as the original material?

Doesn't matter just hard?

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 24, 2017, 12:08:12 AM7/24/17
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:26:22 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Could you fill the hole with something and then
>screw anew?

Yes. That's what I do. Most commonly, I use strips of wood or
toothpicks arranged in a bundle. I cram them into the hole and break
off the excess wood. Re-install the wood screw and you're done.

However, if the sides of the hole a smooth, the strips of wood or
toothpicks might slide in and out. For those, I just slop some wood
glue onto the sides of the hole before I insert the wood strips.

>Typically it is three screws in a circle, and
>one of them is loose.

Deck plate?
<http://www.beckson.com/dpinstall.html>
<http://www.downwindmarine.com/Deck-Plates-p-1-c-127.html>
If the metal plate gets walked on, it's likely that stepping on an
edge produces a rocking action that prys out the nearest screw, much
like a can opener. It's a common problem. There are many solutions,
but I've found the best is to simply flatten and sand flat the cover
plate and whatever lives under the plate so that it doesn't rock when
someone stands on an edge. If the deck is warped or splintered,
that's not going to happen. For those, I suggest replacing the metal
deck plate with a plastic equivalent, which will bend when stepped on.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 1:00:05 AM7/24/17
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Deck plate?
> <http://www.beckson.com/dpinstall.html>
> <http://www.downwindmarine.com/Deck-Plates-p-1-c-127.html>
> If the metal plate gets walked on, it's
> likely that stepping on an edge produces
> a rocking action that prys out the nearest
> screw, much like a can opener. It's a common
> problem. There are many solutions, but I've
> found the best is to simply flatten and sand
> flat the cover plate and whatever lives under
> the plate so that it doesn't rock when
> someone stands on an edge. If the deck is
> warped or splintered, that's not going to
> happen. For those, I suggest replacing the
> metal deck plate with a plastic equivalent,
> which will bend when stepped on.

Very interesting, thank you.

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 1:02:43 AM7/24/17
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Ask the Bird

https://goo.gl/4c8WgS


great depth

Compare old screws with new screws

Obvious first answer is drill new hole insert new screw ... but with wood not complete answer

I am burdened with a ply roof rack on tuba3's. Werks gud. Wood decays.
I stock West 650 n 650 tube paste...grate for voids n fglasswork..general fixations

If obsessive coat screws. Coat heads..Paint

Paint paint pant XZy/!!@000

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 1:07:28 AM7/24/17
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If this is the prob seat plate in fresh wood..try a rasp...coated with epoxy on sanded metal syrface.
Permanent. BSA

John B. Slocomb

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Jul 24, 2017, 1:42:14 AM7/24/17
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:26:22 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> If this is a "wood screw" depending on what
>> the screw is holding perhaps a larger
>> diameter screw. If a "machine screw" then
>> perhaps loctite.
>
>It is all big wood screws. A larger diameter
>won't do as it'll then be too big to pass thru
>the hole of whatever it is it should hold.
>
>Could you fill the hole with something and then
>screw anew?
>
>Or forget about the screw and glue the detail?
>Will that carry enough strength, and
>be resistant?
>
>Typically it is three screws in a circle, and
>one of them is loose.

Certainly. You can plug the existing hole typically by drilling out
the existing hole and gluing in a plug and then re-drilling the screw
hole.

Depending on what it is you might also remove all the screws and
rotate the "thing" to position the holes half way between the existing
screw holes an re-drill new screw holes.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 4:28:53 AM7/24/17
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John B. Slocomb wrote:

> Depending on what it is you might also remove
> all the screws and rotate the "thing" to
> position the holes half way between the
> existing screw holes an re-drill new
> screw holes.

It seems drilling is the key to this problem :)

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 5:43:17 AM7/24/17
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The key to wooden boats is epoxy, marine paint, fiberglass boats

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 5:45:51 AM7/24/17
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Duane

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Jul 24, 2017, 8:10:59 AM7/24/17
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2) I had a similar experience. I hit a big pothole and the tube split
at the seam. I changed the tube and finished my ride. A few days later
I got a snakebite flat for no apparent reason. This happened a few more
times. Eventually, I found it by turning the tire inside out and
looking closely. There was a small nick in the sidewall that was
pinching the tubes. Maybe it's something like that.

David Scheidt

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Jul 24, 2017, 9:28:05 AM7/24/17
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Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:
:David Scheidt wrote:

:> In general carpentry, the solution is to
:> drill the hole in the wood out to a standard
:> size, and glue with wood glue a dowel (wooden
:> rod) the same size as the drilled hole in the
:> hole. Once the glue is dry, cut it flush with
:> the surface with a chisel, redrill the hole,
:> reinstall the screw.

:Any preference what woods the dowel should be?

:The same as the original material?

:Doesn't matter just hard?

Ideally, you use the same species, but for most applications it
doesn't much matter. The plug is covered by the thing your drilling a
hole in for, so no one can see it. the one concern is that the wood
moves with humidity changes the same way as the parent wood does. but
a 10 mm plug doesn't move much.


--
sig 74

cycl...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 9:42:55 AM7/24/17
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Yes, but this is a craftsman operation. You have to drill a hole ONLY to the bottom of the screw hole, glue in a HARDWOOD plug and then after allowing it to set up for a couple of days, drill it to the proper diameter and depth for the original wood screw. The fact that it is loose means that it was probably improperly drilled in the first place.

Frank Krygowski

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Jul 24, 2017, 10:39:02 AM7/24/17
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On 7/23/2017 11:23 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> David Scheidt wrote:
>
>> In general carpentry, the solution is to
>> drill the hole in the wood out to a standard
>> size, and glue with wood glue a dowel (wooden
>> rod) the same size as the drilled hole in the
>> hole. Once the glue is dry, cut it flush with
>> the surface with a chisel, redrill the hole,
>> reinstall the screw.
>
> Any preference what woods the dowel should be?
>
> The same as the original material?
>
> Doesn't matter just hard?

A general tip: When I first moved out of my parents' house and out on
my own, I bought a copy of a general "do it yourself" manual, one
something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Do-Yourself-Manual-Completely/dp/0762105798/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YM2P9AWTEQW88NVSATEG

I actually read it cover to cover, taking notes. I learned a lot. And
I still have that book (and others) for reference.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 10:50:15 AM7/24/17
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Frank Krygowski wrote:

> I actually read it cover to cover, taking
> notes. I learned a lot. And I still have that
> book (and others) for reference.

I've read a couple of books on bikes by now and
yes, you always learn something new but mostly
it is just "yes, that's true" and "yes, I have
that tool too". It is a lot of self-evident
things like get the right tool, the right
"PPE", read the label on the bottle, keep
a tidy workbench, and so on and it isn't really
what anyone cares to read.

To have a general DIY book and look things up
would be amazing but the people who writes it
must be really good, otherwise it won't work.
It has to be strong on details. A huge book -
several thousand pages, or several volumes.

YouTube has perhaps replaced the need for such
a book/encyclopedia to some extent, however I'm
more of a book then video guy, and often with
a video you spend too much time being annoyed
with the guy speaking, the colors or music
etc., which has nothing to do with what he
is saying.

The videos I've seen hasn't really been that
strong on details.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 10:59:17 AM7/24/17
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Emanuel Berg wrote:

> I've read a couple of books on bikes by now
> and yes, you always learn something new but
> mostly it is just "yes, that's true" and
> "yes, I have that tool too". It is a lot of
> self-evident things like get the right tool,
> the right "PPE", read the label on the
> bottle, keep a tidy workbench, and so on and
> it isn't really what anyone cares to read.

Ropes! It is the exception that confirms
the rule. This book is great!

I know now by heart one hitch, one bend, one
static and one adjustable loop, and one
stop nut.

It is great and I do it almost every day.
But the book contains many other knots as well,
for sure.

@book{ultimate-encyclopedia-of-knots-and-ropework,
author = {Geoffrey Budworth},
ISBN = 1844768910,
publisher = {Southwater},
title = {The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework},
year = 2010

cycl...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 11:47:38 AM7/24/17
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You must have some very eclectic interests. A have dozen knots are all you need on any modern sailboat. All the ropes are synthetic and most are now double woven.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 12:59:03 PM7/24/17
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> You must have some very eclectic interests.

"eclectic" meaning...?

Eclectic \Ec*lec"tic\, a. [Gr. ?, fr. ? to pick out, choose out:
cf. F. ['e]clectique. See {Eclogue}, and cf. {Elect}.]
1. Selecting; choosing (what is true or excellent in
doctrines, opinions, etc.) from various sources or
systems; as, an eclectic philosopher.
[1913 Webster]

2. Consisting, or made up, of what is chosen or selected; as,
an eclectic method; an eclectic magazine.
[1913 Webster]

{Eclectic physician}, one of a class of practitioners of
medicine, who select their modes of practice and medicines
from all schools; formerly, sometimes the same as botanic
physician. [U.S.]

{Eclectic school}. (Paint.) See {Bolognese school}, under
{Bolognese}.
[1913 Webster]

> A have dozen knots are all you need on any
> modern sailboat. All the ropes are synthetic
> and most are now double woven.

The sailboat is still on the ground. But there
are many applications for ropes even at land.
Even in the bedroom actually ha ha. No, here
are two examples:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/work-photos/lamp.jpg
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/work-photos/door.jpg

Frank Krygowski

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Jul 24, 2017, 6:28:59 PM7/24/17
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I know others who love YouTube videos, and sometimes they can be useful.
But often a book is much better organized, due to professional
editors. It has an index allowing me to go quickly to the proper page.
And it has margins that I use for notes, making the second time through
a job a lot more efficient.


--
- Frank Krygowski

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 24, 2017, 6:59:42 PM7/24/17
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GNAW woods swells n contracts swells n contratcs never going to swell 1 again

the screws corrode n grow smaller as wood shrinks

in a boat

in dry wood a corroding fastner esp rod will jam caws there's more corrosion water n oxygen atoms than the hole will hols

jbeattie

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Jul 24, 2017, 7:29:42 PM7/24/17
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Books don't require electricity and they are often more convenient. The lacing pattern page in The Bicycle Wheel is dog-eared. If I have a beer too many and forget whether its the first hole to the left or right or which way to spin the hub, etc., I can grab the book with my greasy hands and look.

The great part about books is what's on the pages that you flip past getting to the chapter on toilet wax-rings or what have you. YouTube is somewhat myopic -- you don't get the 20,000 foot view. There is nothing like a good index to tell you what you don't know.

-- Jay Beattie.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 7:55:48 PM7/24/17
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Frank Krygowski wrote:

> I know others who love YouTube videos, and
> sometimes they can be useful. But often
> a book is much better organized, due to
> professional editors. It has an index
> allowing me to go quickly to the proper page.
> And it has margins that I use for notes,
> making the second time through a job a lot
> more efficient.

A great book is always better than a YT video.
A great YT video, I suppose, would be better
than most mediocre books - more time-efficient,
at least.

Foundation of all intelligence, the Swedish
name Lars:

L - läsa - read
a - agera - act (including social interactions, sports, etc.)
r - räkna - count (as in math, programming, tire dimensions, anything analytical)
s - skriva - write

At least I never met I single stupid person who
did it.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 7:59:00 PM7/24/17
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jbeattie wrote:

> Books don't require electricity and they are
> often more convenient. The lacing pattern page
> in The Bicycle Wheel is dog-eared. If I have
> a beer too many and forget whether its the
> first hole to the left or right or which way to
> spin the hub, etc., I can grab the book with my
> greasy hands and look.
>
> The great part about books is what's on the
> pages that you flip past getting to the chapter
> on toilet wax-rings or what have you.
> YouTube is somewhat myopic -- you don't get the
> 20,000 foot view. There is nothing like a good
> index to tell you what you don't know.

Agree 100%

George W. Bush:

One of the great things about books is
sometimes there are some
fantastic pictures.

Quote used to make fun of Old Double-U.

But isn't he actually right? It *is* one of the
great things about books!

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 8:13:56 PM7/24/17
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> The key to wooden boats is epoxy

Man, I hope you are right!

Because there are so many loose screws it is
a joke! The dowel or "rotate" solutions will
require many, many man-hours on top of
this boat.

I'm thinking of removing all loose screws, go
to the accursed HW store, get identical ones
for those damaged, get epoxy, do it all in one
go...

By the way, if epoxy is so good, why isn't it
used for normal, non-boat carpentry as well?
Expensive? Not necessary? Not as old-school
classy? Or is it, actually?

And: why do all screws come loose?! Is it the
boat being hit by the sea or is the ropes etc.
pulling the stowage brackets etc.
from different angles?

What did people do before the age of
epoxy? Work?

AMuzi

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Jul 24, 2017, 9:05:40 PM7/24/17
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Right. Wooden ships don't last, probably not much more than
220 years anyway:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/23/the-latest-hundreds-watch-uss-constitution-prep-fo/

Maybe different in Sweden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_%28ship%29

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


AMuzi

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Jul 24, 2017, 9:07:34 PM7/24/17
to
Yep, for Jet magazine centerfolds anyway.

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 9:48:43 PM7/24/17
to
AMuzi wrote:

> Maybe different in Sweden:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_%28ship%29

Ha ha ha, the total failure. But a cool ship
and a great museum. There is one other big ship
from that era preserved/restored... ?
Can't remember. It is mentioned in this book,
a great book by the way by two French guys
looking for the Silver bank treasure - one of
the "Calypso" expeditions. (Don't know the
original title - from now on, I'll book that
as well.)

@book{skattskepp,
author = {Jacques-Yves Cousteau and Philippe Diolé},
ISBN = {91 582-0023-1},
publisher = {Askild \& Kärnekull},
title = {Skattskepp},
year = 1971

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 24, 2017, 10:02:41 PM7/24/17
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AMuzi wrote:

>> George W. Bush: One of the great things
>> about books is sometimes there are some
>> fantastic pictures. Quote used to make fun
>> of Old Double-U. But isn't he actually
>> right? It *is* one of the great things
>> about books!
>
> Yep, for Jet magazine centerfolds anyway.

I got the joke it without looking it up.
But I did, anyway:

Since 1952, Jet has had a full-page feature
called "Beauty of the Week". This feature
includes a photograph of an
African-American woman in a swimsuit
(either one-piece or two-piece, but never
nude), along with her name, place of
residence, profession, hobbies, and
interests. Many of the women are not
professional models and submit their
photographs for the magazine's
consideration. The purpose of the feature
is to promote the beauty of
African-American women.

Maybe in 1952, that was something that needed
to be "promoted"!

Speaking of young women, in the hardware store
Bauhaus, some 4/5ths of all who work there are
females in their 20s and early 30s. Many very
young, early and mid 20s! Some even with their
hair loose! And I'm not talking the clerks here
(they are pretty girls as well) - I mean the
service people who answer questions, lead the
way for people who can't find their stuff, and
so on.

Here, manipulation is at its peak!
Obviously this is done because guys like girls
and because it will reduce the prestige level
(no perceived competition between knowledge
levels), so the dude will feel relaxed and buy
even more.

But what I dislike the most is what happens
when the dudes get back home and do their thing
and throw the gear in some corner where it gets
lost or damaged and then they yell at their
people for not finding it the next time and
then go back to the hardware store and buy
it again. "Hey, what was it, that we were
supposed to get?"

Really, if it was just me and the hardware
store, just me and the hardware (and the
girls), but not the other customers, I would
actually love the hardware store :)

John B. Slocomb

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Jul 24, 2017, 10:24:13 PM7/24/17
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 10:28:49 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> Depending on what it is you might also remove
>> all the screws and rotate the "thing" to
>> position the holes half way between the
>> existing screw holes an re-drill new
>> screw holes.
>
>It seems drilling is the key to this problem :)

It would be perfectly good English to say "boring" :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

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Jul 24, 2017, 10:39:58 PM7/24/17
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 02:13:51 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>> The key to wooden boats is epoxy
>
>Man, I hope you are right!
>
>Because there are so many loose screws it is
>a joke! The dowel or "rotate" solutions will
>require many, many man-hours on top of
>this boat.
>
>I'm thinking of removing all loose screws, go
>to the accursed HW store, get identical ones
>for those damaged, get epoxy, do it all in one
>go...
>
>By the way, if epoxy is so good, why isn't it
>used for normal, non-boat carpentry as well?
>Expensive? Not necessary? Not as old-school
>classy? Or is it, actually?

(1) it costs more and (2) in many instances cheaper stuff works as
well or better.

>And: why do all screws come loose?! Is it the
>boat being hit by the sea or is the ropes etc.
>pulling the stowage brackets etc.
>from different angles?
>

Depending on what they are used for there might be better ways to do
things and if you drill the holes just a little larger the screws are
so much easier to install although they won't hold as well

>What did people do before the age of
>epoxy? Work?

Many different things. Working boats used to have the planking nailed
on with "boat nails". Stays and shrouds on sailing ships were lashed
in place.

In fact the better builders probably wouldn't use screws to fasten
deck hardware and certainly not for any functional purpose. A fishing
rod holder may be screwed on but sheet blocks would be through bolted.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 24, 2017, 10:43:51 PM7/24/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> It would be perfectly good English to say
> "boring" :-)

Ha! It if was your everyday job. But doing it
one day or two and solving your problem is
a bliss.

By the way, I renamed the boat "Hali" after
Hali Ford, an American lawyer that was on
Survivor! (Survivor, originally a British
concept, and Swedish production, but by now
I like the US version the best.) Anyway Hali,
a very good-looking and charismatic girl,
typical long-ear. I hope it brings good luck!

The previous name was "My Lady III" which is so
un-original it is boring even to say it once.

I hope it isn't a taboo renaming ships?

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 24, 2017, 10:51:03 PM7/24/17
to
I don't believe that the Constitution is capable of being sailed any
more in spite of the extensive repairs that have been made over its
lifetime. At least the only reference I've read about has it being
moved under tow.

>Maybe different in Sweden:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_%28ship%29
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 24, 2017, 10:59:29 PM7/24/17
to
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:50:12 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
>> I actually read it cover to cover, taking
>> notes. I learned a lot. And I still have that
>> book (and others) for reference.
>
>I've read a couple of books on bikes by now and
>yes, you always learn something new but mostly
>it is just "yes, that's true" and "yes, I have
>that tool too". It is a lot of self-evident
>things like get the right tool, the right
>"PPE", read the label on the bottle, keep
>a tidy workbench, and so on and it isn't really
>what anyone cares to read.
>
Although it is still rather enlightening to see how often people
undertake something not knowing a single thing about what they are
doing.

I just read a comment in a novel that is probably applicable here,
"One thing about learning by experience is that one trends to remember
it" :-)


>To have a general DIY book and look things up
>would be amazing but the people who writes it
>must be really good, otherwise it won't work.
>It has to be strong on details. A huge book -
>several thousand pages, or several volumes.
>
>YouTube has perhaps replaced the need for such
>a book/encyclopedia to some extent, however I'm
>more of a book then video guy, and often with
>a video you spend too much time being annoyed
>with the guy speaking, the colors or music
>etc., which has nothing to do with what he
>is saying.

From what I've seen there are a multitude of Youtube videos that are
either completely wrong or tell you an inferior method of doing
something.

>The videos I've seen hasn't really been that
>strong on details.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 24, 2017, 11:05:21 PM7/24/17
to
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:59:13 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:
I lived on a sail boat for about 10 years and if I remember correctly
used only three knots. :-)

Or perhaps a better way to say they it I used only three knots often
enough that I could tie them without thinking about it :-)


--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 24, 2017, 11:07:29 PM7/24/17
to
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 18:58:58 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:
That certainly must be a heavy flashlight using a 4 part line to rig
it :-)
> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/work-photos/door.jpg
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 12:07:00 AM7/25/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> Or perhaps a better way to say they it I used
> only three knots often enough that I could
> tie them without thinking about it :-)

Indeed, "optimize the common case" (computers),
or don't train to kick a thousand different
kicks, train one high, one low, and one in the
middle, a thousand times (version of Bruce Lee
quote?).

PS. If you know the names of the knots, I can
look them up in the book if they are
included :)

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 12:27:25 AM7/25/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> Depending on what they are used for there
> might be better ways to do things and if you
> drill the holes just a little larger the
> screws are so much easier to install although
> they won't hold as well

OK, so if we assume a 4.2 mm deck screw that
isn't self-drilling, what drill size should one
use? (I take it this answer should be on the
web in some neat table but I can't find the
right search phrase to find it. Hey, it should
be on the folding rule just like it is with
calipers for the mech world.)

> In fact the better builders probably wouldn't
> use screws to fasten deck hardware and
> certainly not for any functional purpose.
> A fishing rod holder may be screwed on but
> sheet blocks would be through bolted.

Damn straight, it should be bolted!

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 3:19:54 AM7/25/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 06:06:55 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> Or perhaps a better way to say they it I used
>> only three knots often enough that I could
>> tie them without thinking about it :-)
>
>Indeed, "optimize the common case" (computers),
>or don't train to kick a thousand different
>kicks, train one high, one low, and one in the
>middle, a thousand times (version of Bruce Lee
>quote?).
>
>PS. If you know the names of the knots, I can
> look them up in the book if they are
> included :)

Easy. two half hitches to tie the dinghy, tied the other way a square
knot and a bowline to make a loop.

The thing is, as someone else mentioned, a modern sail boat is
normally rigged with double braided synthetic line.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 3:27:03 AM7/25/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 06:27:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> Depending on what they are used for there
>> might be better ways to do things and if you
>> drill the holes just a little larger the
>> screws are so much easier to install although
>> they won't hold as well
>
>OK, so if we assume a 4.2 mm deck screw that
>isn't self-drilling, what drill size should one
>use? (I take it this answer should be on the
>web in some neat table but I can't find the
>right search phrase to find it. Hey, it should
>be on the folding rule just like it is with
>calipers for the mech world.)

Try
http://www.diydata.com/information/screwholes/screwholes.php

>
>> In fact the better builders probably wouldn't
>> use screws to fasten deck hardware and
>> certainly not for any functional purpose.
>> A fishing rod holder may be screwed on but
>> sheet blocks would be through bolted.
>
>Damn straight, it should be bolted!
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 4:05:53 AM7/25/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> Easy. two half hitches to tie the dinghy,
> tied the other way a square knot and
> a bowline to make a loop.

Yes, included, even the exact vocabulary.

> The thing is, as someone else mentioned,
> a modern sail boat is normally rigged with
> double braided synthetic line.

Right, well, I got that book several years ago
and didn't start this boat project until
recently. The ropes are relaxing and fun but
I use the knots every day. And not just the
goofy flashlight but practical, everyday
things. The flashlight hanger is "Asher's
Equalizer" by the way, page 168 in the book
mentioned earlier :)

About "modern" - there is a sign in the boat
sayin 1968. The radio is Japanese which suggest
the pre-China/Taiwan era.

When did sailing boats became modern?

For sure, an old boat can have
modern equipment.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 7:52:36 AM7/25/17
to
rOn Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:05:48 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> Easy. two half hitches to tie the dinghy,
>> tied the other way a square knot and
>> a bowline to make a loop.
>
>Yes, included, even the exact vocabulary.
>
>> The thing is, as someone else mentioned,
>> a modern sail boat is normally rigged with
>> double braided synthetic line.
>
>Right, well, I got that book several years ago
>and didn't start this boat project until
>recently. The ropes are relaxing and fun but
>I use the knots every day. And not just the
>goofy flashlight but practical, everyday
>things. The flashlight hanger is "Asher's
>Equalizer" by the way, page 168 in the book
>mentioned earlier :)
>
>About "modern" - there is a sign in the boat
>sayin 1968. The radio is Japanese which suggest
>the pre-China/Taiwan era.
>
Well, Japanese labeled radios were very common up until about 10 years
ago.

>When did sailing boats became modern?
>
Well, I sailed a boat with cotton canvas sails and manila rope lines
and a compass and it was considerably different then today :-(

Continually worrying about drying the sail so it wouldn't mildew the
sheets always stretching and never really knowing where you were.

>For sure, an old boat can have
>modern equipment.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 9:49:49 AM7/25/17
to
On 7/24/2017 9:48 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> AMuzi wrote:
>
>> Maybe different in Sweden:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_%28ship%29
>
> Ha ha ha, the total failure. But a cool ship
> and a great museum.

Agreed!


--
- Frank Krygowski

cycl...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 10:01:41 AM7/25/17
to
It's something that needs to be promoted right now! The liberals have decided that they will never have blacks on an equal level and hence they now intend to breed them out of existence. That's why you see ever commercial with a black man with a blonde hanging on his sleeve or visa versa. If you look like a normal black woman you are being body shamed almost every second on the TV.

I was lucky enough that the two shop technicians I worked with in the Air Force were black. And finally we got a black man in the rear machine gun aiming computers and I got a black partner very late in the game that I trained as well as possible.

I'm from Oakland and being in a squadron that had just two black men in it for most of the four years I was in the Air Force was like being in white wash hell. Most of time I didn't even speak the same language.

cycl...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 10:12:04 AM7/25/17
to
None of these ancient ships would be sailable without quite a bit of knowledge that is lacking - they probably aren't caulked so that the wood can expand and contract with humidity without pushing the caulking out. The caulking of a ship this large was not a hit or miss affair. You had to know exactly how much caulking to put into each joint so that in the end as the wood expanded in the water it wouldn't simply push the caulking out or splinter the boards. Remember that the planking was so heavy that cannon could bounce off.

Small wooden crack could be single planked and caulked, ship lap or double planked (and sometimes triple planked). I sailed on most of them. But fiberglas really was the best way to go. The maintenance was reduced so much it's unbelievable.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 11:44:02 AM7/25/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 02:13:51 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>What did people do before the age of
>epoxy? Work?

Wooden plugs and tar:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=wooden+boat+plugs&tbm=isch>

What's happening is the your wood screw and deck plate are moving
relative to the deck. It could be the deck is falling apart and
flexing excessively, someone walking on the deck plate, or just
thermal expansion/contraction of the hardware in the sun. The threads
have sharp edges and do a good job of shaving the edges of the hole
until the screw comes loose. Replacing such a wood screw with a
larger size screw will just cut a bigger hole in the deck. As long as
things are moving, epoxy won't work. It's not flexible and will
crack. Rubber gaskets might help if the deck is flexing, but if the
damage is caused by someone walking on the deck plate, then rubber
will simply increase the amount of movement.

Think about using FH bolts, washers, and captive nuts to secure the
deck plate, or just fix whatever is causing the flexing or fastener
movement.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 11:58:22 AM7/25/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 04:43:47 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>The previous name was "My Lady III" which is so
>un-original it is boring even to say it once.

This is the internet age and such vessels should
now be named "My Lady version 3.0.0 build 17".

>I hope it isn't a taboo renaming ships?

Not taboo, but it is traditionally considered bad luck. However, if
you want to attract really bad luck, try changing the vessel or
trailer license and registration information at the local DMV. The
resultant documentation headache, fees, taxes, inspections, and delays
will certainly make you reconsider your actions.

avag...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 12:12:13 PM7/25/17
to
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/


My van holds up a decked roof rack .... tho placement is with lathe screws or drywall/construction electric drill screws once the rig is in place n adjusted everything is bolted down with G5 .25" rod then nuts sealed with blue Loctite.

In a new state eventually law will come around for a visual inspection.

AMuzi

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 12:16:23 PM7/25/17
to
Really? Our lathe screw is 3/4 inch x 4 feet long. How many
of those did you use for this project?

avag...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 12:31:11 PM7/25/17
to
goo.gl/bRg1y5

gripado

Radey Shouman

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 1:14:14 PM7/25/17
to
Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> writes:

> AMuzi wrote:
>
>> Maybe different in Sweden:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_%28ship%29
>
> Ha ha ha, the total failure. But a cool ship
> and a great museum. There is one other big ship
> from that era preserved/restored... ?

The English have one with a similar story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_rose

although it did have a longer career before sinking.

Radey Shouman

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 1:20:27 PM7/25/17
to
John B. Slocomb <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:05:34 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 7/24/2017 5:59 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:

[...]

>>
>>Right. Wooden ships don't last, probably not much more than
>>220 years anyway:
>>
>>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/23/the-latest-hundreds-watch-uss-constitution-prep-fo/
>>
> I don't believe that the Constitution is capable of being sailed any
> more in spite of the extensive repairs that have been made over its
> lifetime. At least the only reference I've read about has it being
> moved under tow.

It happened in 2012:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVRWqhvHaMo

She's currently being refitted (again), so not capable of sailing at
the moment.

Radey Shouman

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 1:24:22 PM7/25/17
to
cycl...@gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 7:51:03 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:05:34 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 7/24/2017 5:59 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:

[...]

>> >
>> >Right. Wooden ships don't last, probably not much more than
>> >220 years anyway:
>> >
>> >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/23/the-latest-hundreds-watch-uss-constitution-prep-fo/
>> >
>> I don't believe that the Constitution is capable of being sailed any
>> more in spite of the extensive repairs that have been made over its
>> lifetime. At least the only reference I've read about has it being
>> moved under tow.
>
> None of these ancient ships would be sailable without quite a bit of
> knowledge that is lacking - they probably aren't caulked so that the
> wood can expand and contract with humidity without pushing the
> caulking out. The caulking of a ship this large was not a hit or miss
> affair. You had to know exactly how much caulking to put into each
> joint so that in the end as the wood expanded in the water it wouldn't
> simply push the caulking out or splinter the boards. Remember that the
> planking was so heavy that cannon could bounce off.

I'm reasonably sure the USS Constitution is caulked old style, although
the material might not be exactly correct. Typically she floats tied up
at a berth, so the caulking must work somewhat. I'll bet they have
electric pumps, though.

--

Radey Shouman

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 1:29:06 PM7/25/17
to
What a difference an 'e' makes.

--

sms

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 2:39:11 PM7/25/17
to
On 7/23/2017 4:44 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> 1) What does for example 7075-T6 mean? I read
> it is stell alloy and heat treatment but
> what do the digits and letters mean, or are
> they just a designation so you can look up
> the properties, and if so where?

A designation.

>
> 2) A guy has had a flat tire several times but
> the tire looks OK. The suspicion is, if the
> rim tape is too broad for the rim so it
> forms a flat "U" letter, and what happens is
> the ends cut thru the tube. Is this heard
> of? The rim tape is from Specialized.
> It looks a little broad but I wouldn't have
> noticed unless there was this
> little mystery.

Is it cloth rim tape or plastic rim strips. The latter needs to not be
wider than the groove that it fits in to cover the spokes. The cloth
tape is more forgiving. Do not use medical adhesive tape in place of rim
tape.

> 3) On a boat I'm working on, there are several
> cases where the screws are loose in their
> holes. What do you typically do?
> Get a longer screw? Or do you use Loctite,
> crazy-glue, etc.?

A longer screws can work.

Don't fill the hole with epoxy or cyanoacrylate.

To fill the hole, you want to use rather thick wood shavings of the same
wood species, or at least use hard wood shavings for hard wood, soft
wood shavings for soft wood. Just coat them with wood glue and force
them into the hole and let it dry. Don't use epoxy, just wood glue.


Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 3:46:05 PM7/25/17
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> The threads have sharp edges and do a good
> job of shaving the edges of the hole until
> the screw comes loose. Replacing such a wood
> screw with a larger size screw will just cut
> a bigger hole in the deck.

Good points.

> As long as things are moving, epoxy won't
> work. It's not flexible and will crack.
> Rubber gaskets might help if the deck is
> flexing, but if the damage is caused by
> someone walking on the deck plate, then
> rubber will simply increase the amount
> of movement.

If we assume no one will walk on the plates, do
they still move enough so that epoxy won't
work? The reason I put hopes in epoxy is
because doing all this the dowel or "rotate"
way is a lot of work. What especially makes me
discouraged is all the things, already in their
right places, that has to be removed first.
But of course, if it needs to be done it is not
something that is impossible to do.

> Think about using FH bolts, washers, and
> captive nuts to secure the deck plate, or
> just fix whatever is causing the flexing or
> fastener movement.

FH bolts, does that require drilling down to
the other side, i.e. thru the ceiling, to
release the wings?

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 3:48:14 PM7/25/17
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>> The previous name was "My Lady III" which is
>> so un-original it is boring even to say
>> it once.
>
> This is the internet age and such vessels
> should now be named "My Lady version 3.0.0
> build 17".

Right :)

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 3:54:38 PM7/25/17
to
sms wrote:

> To fill the hole, you want to use rather
> thick wood shavings

Rather thick? Some screws are so small one
would have to be happy for everything one can
get down into the hole.

> of the same wood species, or at least use
> hard wood shavings for hard wood, soft wood
> shavings for soft wood. Just coat them with
> wood glue and force them into the hole and
> let it dry. Don't use epoxy, just wood glue.

OK, I'll try this first as it is so easy one
might as well try it.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 6:51:02 PM7/25/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> Well, Japanese labeled radios were very
> common up until about 10 years ago.

Is there a way to test the radio, to play with
it if you will? Can I get a walkie-talkie or
anything and open "hailing frequences"?

If it works, are there any reasons to replace
it? I mean, has there been any advances in
technology that nowadays are "a must" at sea?

Japanese technology obviously no joke...

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 9:22:46 PM7/25/17
to
Well, as the Constitution is floating it is quite obviously caulked
:-) and the under water portions of the hull do not expand and
contract with humidity :-)

And while caulking a wooden hull is almost a lost art in the U.S. it
is still practiced in other parts of the world so if that was the
problem it is solvable.

From the article I read on her last rebuild the hull was in such bad
condition, structurally, that the Navy didn't want to take the chance
of sailing her under her own power and she was towed to her present
mooring.

>
>Small wooden crack could be single planked and caulked, rship lap or double planked (and sometimes triple planked). I sailed on most of them. But fiberglas really was the best way to go. The maintenance was reduced so much it's unbelievable.

That isn't necessarily correct. I've actually walked on the sunken
hulk of a 4 masted schooner that was planked with a single layer of 6
inch thick planks and the Constitution was called "iron sides
because some round shot bounced off in one single battle not because
she was bullet proof.


--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 9:33:01 PM7/25/17
to
Actually those are generally referred to as a "Lead screw" rather then
a "lathe screw" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 9:35:48 PM7/25/17
to
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 00:50:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> Well, Japanese labeled radios were very
>> common up until about 10 years ago.
>
>Is there a way to test the radio, to play with
>it if you will? Can I get a walkie-talkie or
>anything and open "hailing frequences"?
>
>If it works, are there any reasons to replace
>it? I mean, has there been any advances in
>technology that nowadays are "a must" at sea?
>
>Japanese technology obviously no joke...

If it is the usual VHF set just turn it on. If you are near the coast
you certainly should hear people talking.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,
Jul 25, 2017, 11:31:15 PM7/25/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:46:00 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> The threads have sharp edges and do a good
>> job of shaving the edges of the hole until
>> the screw comes loose. Replacing such a wood
>> screw with a larger size screw will just cut
>> a bigger hole in the deck.
>
>Good points.

Nope. The screw only has one point.

>> As long as things are moving, epoxy won't
>> work. It's not flexible and will crack.
>> Rubber gaskets might help if the deck is
>> flexing, but if the damage is caused by
>> someone walking on the deck plate, then
>> rubber will simply increase the amount
>> of movement.

>If we assume no one will walk on the plates, do
>they still move enough so that epoxy won't
>work?

I can't answer that. The problem is that you haven't disclosed the
type of wood decking, number of layers, thickness, condition of the
wood, surface finish, preservatives used, type of deck plate, type of
fasteners, size of fasteners, number of fasteners, etc. In other
words, what you have to work with. I can't tell from here. If the
wood is soft, soaked with water, and the fasteners have shallow
threads, any movement is going to turn the soft wood in the hole to
sawdust or mush. The problem is that there is no way that the deck is
going to be totally rigid. Wooden boats creak and groan, which are
all signs of fasteners sliding in and out of holes in the wood. It's
the same noises you hear walking on a badly installed oak floor.

Epoxy is a different nightmare. The problem is that it's great in
compression, fairly good in tension, and miserable in torsion
(bending). In other words, it's easy to break if you bend an epoxy
glued joint, which is what might happen if someone steps on the joint.
For the major structures and laminated parts on a wooden boat, epoxy
is great because those are mostly in compression. It's also great for
gluing in wooden hole plugs. However if you use epoxy for repairs,
and the joint moves as in a wood screw holding down a moving deck
plate, it can break.

Article on the different wooden boat fixit glues:
<http://www.tonygrove.com/articles/boat-repair-adhesives.php>

>The reason I put hopes in epoxy is
>because doing all this the dowel or "rotate"
>way is a lot of work. What especially makes me
>discouraged is all the things, already in their
>right places, that has to be removed first.
>But of course, if it needs to be done it is not
>something that is impossible to do.

Well, if you like epoxy so much, perhaps you should sell the wooden
boat and get a fiberglass and epoxy replacement? I can't tell how
much time and work would be saved by using epoxy instead of wooden
dowels and plugs.

>> Think about using FH bolts, washers, and
>> captive nuts to secure the deck plate, or
>> just fix whatever is causing the flexing or
>> fastener movement.

>FH bolts, does that require drilling down to
>the other side, i.e. thru the ceiling, to
>release the wings?

I'm not suggesting drywall expanding fasteners. I'm guessing that you
might have access to the underside of the deck through the cabin or
bilge. If so, you can install a fastener that does not require
screwing into the wood, such as a nut, bolt, and washer sandwich.
Maybe a nut plate, captive nut, or pronged tee nut can be used.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=pronged+tee+nut+stainless&tbm=isch>

Perhaps it might be more useful to ask in a wooden boat forum?
<http://forum.woodenboat.com>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=wooden+boat+forum>

Obligatory mention of bicycling:
Does a wooden boat always have a wood frame bicycle for shore travel?

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 12:04:10 AM7/26/17
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Perhaps it might be more useful to ask in
> a wooden boat forum?

On the contrary, your and other's replies have
been very helpful. I've decided to first do the
dowel wherever access is easy. It is the method
I believe in the most.

> Obligatory mention of bicycling: Does
> a wooden boat always have a wood frame
> bicycle for shore travel?

I have never even seen a wood frame bike!
I heard people do it in bamboo even.

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 26, 2017, 12:33:46 AM7/26/17
to
The repair spectrum runs from dingy to racing or global/offshore.

Surly wood particles n waterproof wood glue the painted fill the bill.

With epoxy there's an epoxy spectrum.

If the plate is flush matched to seat n screws epoxies then the assembly is NEVER coming off without sawing it out removing hull and plate.

This, as variables in need n design change over time, is a terminal disadvatafe.

However, West epoxy with the correct West filler may 'cures' wood rot problems associated with the plate ...a clear advantage for moving forward n not sawing hull.

I have design measure cut ply OTF ply voids. Epoxy rules. Wonderful mixing some Wal or West 650 pouring into voids n setting into sun under weight fir tomorrow morning while I move on to a different task.

Best using waterproof wood glue first.

AMuzi

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Jul 26, 2017, 8:40:52 AM7/26/17
to
On 7/25/2017 11:04 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it might be more useful to ask in
>> a wooden boat forum?
>
> On the contrary, your and other's replies have
> been very helpful. I've decided to first do the
> dowel wherever access is easy. It is the method
> I believe in the most.
>
>> Obligatory mention of bicycling: Does
>> a wooden boat always have a wood frame
>> bicycle for shore travel?
>
> I have never even seen a wood frame bike!
> I heard people do it in bamboo even.
>

There was a time when small/medium size US towns all had a
bicycle factory, assembling local hardwood dowels into cast
iron joints. They were popular and cheap, unlike this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Antique-1890s-Wood-Frame-Bicycle-Brass-Lugs-Skip-Tooth-Sprocket-Prototype-/172779010891?hash=item283a6e7b4b:g:xEgAAOSwWdZZZ3pF

I had a better understanding of materials during 'la belle
epoche' when I repaired a 1919 race frame. Those tubes were
very thin plain carbon steel with brazed seams, best
available hi-tech tube of that era.

dave

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 9:41:02 AM7/26/17
to
21 inches worth of hull thickness might do that. They didn't mess about
when they built that one. They built it so big and strong they broke the
ways (launching ramp) twice before they got it in the water.
--
davethedave

dave

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 9:46:43 AM7/26/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:29:03 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote:

<snip>

>>> My van holds up a decked roof rack .... tho placement is with lathe
>>> screws or drywall/construction electric drill screws once the rig is
>>> in place n adjusted everything is bolted down with G5 .25" rod then
>>> nuts sealed with blue Loctite.
>>>
>>> In a new state eventually law will come around for a visual
>>> inspection.
>>>
>>>
>> Really? Our lathe screw is 3/4 inch x 4 feet long. How many of those
>> did you use for this project?
>
> What a difference an 'e' makes.

You love the world and want to hug everyone. Everything is really funny
and you lath a lot.
--
davethedave

cycl...@gmail.com

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Jul 26, 2017, 10:52:40 AM7/26/17
to
On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >None of these ancient ships would be sailable without quite a bit of knowledge that is lacking - they probably aren't caulked so that the wood can expand and contract with humidity without pushing the caulking out. The caulking of a ship this large was not a hit or miss affair. You had to know exactly how much caulking to put into each joint so that in the end as the wood expanded in the water it wouldn't simply push the caulking out or splinter the boards. Remember that the planking was so heavy that cannon could bounce off.
>
> Well, as the Constitution is floating it is quite obviously caulked
> :-) and the under water portions of the hull do not expand and
> contract with humidity :-)

All of the photos I've seen of the Constitution it is in dry storage.

> And while caulking a wooden hull is almost a lost art in the U.S. it
> is still practiced in other parts of the world so if that was the
> problem it is solvable.

NO other parts of the world caulk 20" thick hulls.

> From the article I read on her last rebuild the hull was in such bad
> condition, structurally, that the Navy didn't want to take the chance
> of sailing her under her own power and she was towed to her present
> mooring.
>
> >
> >Small wooden craft could be single planked and caulked, or ship lap or double planked (and sometimes triple planked). I sailed on most of them. But fiberglas really was the best way to go. The maintenance was reduced so much it's unbelievable.
>
> That isn't necessarily correct. I've actually walked on the sunken
> hulk of a 4 masted schooner that was planked with a single layer of 6
> inch thick planks and the Constitution was called "iron sides
> because some round shot bounced off in one single battle not because
> she was bullet proof.

If you think that 20" of American oak siding only had "some round shot bouncing off" than you are unaware of naval tactics which were exactly the same until today - artillery is aimed at the water line to open the hull.

I've sailed on just about everything but a square rigger. I raced everything from 22' to over 50' and from day-on-the-bay to the length of the California Pacific coast. I was the navigator and watch captain. Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple algebra.

The fact that you swam over a sunken wreck doesn't mean that there was anything left of it. Shipworm had to completely infest any wood left and there couldn't be anything other than an empty shell.

Doug Landau

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 12:08:29 PM7/26/17
to
not me

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 26, 2017, 12:43:04 PM7/26/17
to
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 06:04:05 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it might be more useful to ask in
>> a wooden boat forum?
>
>On the contrary, your and other's replies have
>been very helpful. I've decided to first do the
>dowel wherever access is easy. It is the method
>I believe in the most.

Ok. Good luck. For a few months, I lived on a Chinese junk moored in
Marina Del Rey while going to college. Part of the free rent was
taking care of the owners cat and doing "minor" repairs on the junk. I
doubt that the junk would be considered seaworthy after my repairs. I
successfully duplicated most of the basic mistakes and added a few of
my own. In retrospect, it would have been better if I had asked for
assistance from the local boat builders, but I was too arrogant to do
so at the time.

Suggestion: If there's any doubt, don't do it. It's difficult to
undo mistakes on a wooden boat.

>> Obligatory mention of bicycling: Does
>> a wooden boat always have a wood frame
>> bicycle for shore travel?
>
>I have never even seen a wood frame bike!
>I heard people do it in bamboo even.

They're quite common:
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=wooden+bicycle+frame>
I would expect someone familiar with marine carpentry to also build a
wooden bicycle, but I have yet to see such bicycle in Santa Cruz
harbor. Most boats in the harbor have folding bicycles on board, but
those can probably be made with wood.

Bamboo bicycle frame. Made locally in La Selva Beach (in SCZ county):
<https://calfeedesign.com/products/bamboo/>

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 12:59:29 PM7/26/17
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> but I was too arrogant to do so at the time.

Did your character have any negative sides
as well?

> Suggestion: If there's any doubt, don't do
> it. It's difficult to undo mistakes on
> a wooden boat.

I know :)

dave

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 1:50:02 PM7/26/17
to
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:08:24 -0700, Doug Landau wrote:

<snip>
>>
>> >>> My van holds up a decked roof rack .... tho placement is with lathe
>> >>> screws or drywall/construction electric drill screws once the rig
>> >>> is in place n adjusted everything is bolted down with G5 .25" rod
>> >>> then nuts sealed with blue Loctite.
>> >>>
>> >>> In a new state eventually law will come around for a visual
>> >>> inspection.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> Really? Our lathe screw is 3/4 inch x 4 feet long. How many of those
>> >> did you use for this project?
>> >
>> > What a difference an 'e' makes.
>>
>> You love the world and want to hug everyone. Everything is really funny
>> and you lath a lot.
>> --
>> davethedave
>
> not me

Sorry. You're right. It's not a lath ing matter.
--
davethedave

Doug Landau

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 2:00:06 PM7/26/17
to
im one of those poor souls who reacts the opposite way

Radey Shouman

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Jul 26, 2017, 3:50:12 PM7/26/17
to
cycl...@gmail.com writes:

> On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >None of these ancient ships would be sailable without quite a bit
>> > of knowledge that is lacking - they probably aren't caulked so
>> > that the wood can expand and contract with humidity without
>> > pushing the caulking out. The caulking of a ship this large was
>> > not a hit or miss affair. You had to know exactly how much
>> > caulking to put into each joint so that in the end as the wood
>> > expanded in the water it wouldn't simply push the caulking out or
>> > splinter the boards. Remember that the planking was so heavy that
>> > cannon could bounce off.
>>
>> Well, as the Constitution is floating it is quite obviously caulked
>> :-) and the under water portions of the hull do not expand and
>> contract with humidity :-)
>
> All of the photos I've seen of the Constitution it is in dry storage.

Last time I walked her decks I'm pretty sure she was floating. She was in
dry dock recently, but was floated a week or two ago. The dry dock,
incidentally, is old and historical in it's own right.
--

Radey Shouman

unread,
Jul 26, 2017, 3:52:14 PM7/26/17
to
You're one of those that can't help giggling when someone loses an eye,
right?

--

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 9:29:47 AM7/27/17
to
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:31:06 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
Fastening the hull planking on expensive wooden hull yachts was often
done with bronze screws and no special problems arose.

>Epoxy is a different nightmare. The problem is that it's great in
>compression, fairly good in tension, and miserable in torsion
>(bending). In other words, it's easy to break if you bend an epoxy
>glued joint, which is what might happen if someone steps on the joint.
>For the major structures and laminated parts on a wooden boat, epoxy
>is great because those are mostly in compression. It's also great for
>gluing in wooden hole plugs. However if you use epoxy for repairs,
>and the joint moves as in a wood screw holding down a moving deck
>plate, it can break.

Using epoxy which forms a very strong and solid bond is not normally
recommended on wooden constructions that are not entirely waterproofed
as if the wooden structure is not waterproof it absorbs moisture
changes shape while the glue joints do not.
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 10:17:17 AM7/27/17
to
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >None of these ancient ships would be sailable without quite a bit of knowledge that is lacking - they probably aren't caulked so that the wood can expand and contract with humidity without pushing the caulking out. The caulking of a ship this large was not a hit or miss affair. You had to know exactly how much caulking to put into each joint so that in the end as the wood expanded in the water it wouldn't simply push the caulking out or splinter the boards. Remember that the planking was so heavy that cannon could bounce off.
>>
>> Well, as the Constitution is floating it is quite obviously caulked
>> :-) and the under water portions of the hull do not expand and
>> contract with humidity :-)
>
>All of the photos I've seen of the Constitution it is in dry storage.
>
>> And while caulking a wooden hull is almost a lost art in the U.S. it
>> is still practiced in other parts of the world so if that was the
>> problem it is solvable.
>
>NO other parts of the world caulk 20" thick hulls.
>
>> From the article I read on her last rebuild the hull was in such bad
>> condition, structurally, that the Navy didn't want to take the chance
>> of sailing her under her own power and she was towed to her present
>> mooring.
>>
>> >
>> >Small wooden craft could be single planked and caulked, or ship lap or double planked (and sometimes triple planked). I sailed on most of them. But fiberglas really was the best way to go. The maintenance was reduced so much it's unbelievable.
>>
>> That isn't necessarily correct. I've actually walked on the sunken
>> hulk of a 4 masted schooner that was planked with a single layer of 6
>> inch thick planks and the Constitution was called "iron sides
>> because some round shot bounced off in one single battle not because
>> she was bullet proof.
>
>If you think that 20" of American oak siding only had "some round hot bouncing off" than you are unaware of naval tactics which were exactly the same until today - artillery is aimed at the water line to open the hull.
>
Not true at all, at least in 18th century navies as capturing the ship
was financially advantageous to both the officers and crew who were
paid the value of the ship as determined by a navel court.

Secondly 18th century cannon were smooth bore and extremely
inaccurate. While firing might start at perhaps a mile range this was
normally an attempt to damage the opponents mast and rigging in order
to limit his ability to maneuver which would allow closing the enemy
and boarding.

>I've sailed on just about everything but a square rigger. r raced everything from 22' to over 50' and from day-on-the-bay to the length of the California Pacific coast. I was the navigator and watch captain. Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple algebra.

Come off it. Every school kid that takes algebra in grade school can
do that.

>
>The fact that you swam over a sunken wreck doesn't mean that there was anything left of it. Shipworm had to completely infest any wood left and there couldn't be anything other than an empty shell.
--
Cheers,

John B.

avag...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 10:59:26 AM7/27/17
to
C is the ancient mariner !

JS, everything is painted n sealed

but here

fiberglass is real

https://www.westmarine.com/boat-paint-solvents

cycl...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 11:23:27 AM7/27/17
to
On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 7:17:17 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT), cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >I've sailed on just about everything but a square rigger. I raced everything from 22' to over 50' and from day-on-the-bay to the length of the California Pacific coast. I was the navigator and watch captain. Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple algebra.
>
> Come off it. Every school kid that takes algebra in grade school can
> do that.

Then why was I called from the Golden Gate Yacht Club again and again to provide navigation even after they had GPS available? Oh, that's right - any grade school kid could navigate.

Or maybe it's because I was the only one that would go up the mast in a seaway and put the jib halyard back on the masthead pulley. Try that on a 65 foot mast.

Doug Landau

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Jul 27, 2017, 2:16:29 PM7/27/17
to
You got a pic of yourself up a Mast Tom?

DougC

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Jul 27, 2017, 2:19:54 PM7/27/17
to
On 7/23/2017 6:44 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> 1) What does for example 7075-T6 mean?
It's a system that designates aluminum alloys (7075) and heat treatment
(T6).
Different countries have their own systems. I think it's a USA thing.

> 2) A guy has had a flat tire several times but
> the tire looks OK. The suspicion is, if the
> rim tape is too broad for the rim so it
> forms a flat "U" letter, and what happens is
> the ends cut thru the tube. Is this heard
> of? The rim tape is from Specialized.
> It looks a little broad but I wouldn't have
> noticed unless there was this
> little mystery.
Dunno really. He could try trimming the strip a bit narrower with some
scissors. Seems to be little to lose at this point.

> 3) On a boat I'm working on, there are several
> cases where the screws are loose in their
> holes. What do you typically do?
> Get a longer screw? Or do you use Loctite,
> crazy-glue, etc.?
>
> Thank you :)

I dunno squat about boats, and even less about wood boats.
I *do* know that crazy glue is water-soluble, which would seem to be the
wrong thing to use on a boat. Or anything that gets wet much...
I would guess you'd want to use epoxy or polyester resin.

Also there is an issue of the wood condition here... I know of people
who had wooden boats who let them rot away, because they weren't sealed
properly at some point in the past and the wood (they said) was already
gone bad. It still looked useful to /me/, but they said all the wood was
too soft now to bother fixing any of it.

Doug Landau

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Jul 27, 2017, 2:28:09 PM7/27/17
to

Emanuel Berg

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Jul 27, 2017, 5:46:06 PM7/27/17
to
With the "rotate deck plate" solution, does it
make sense to impregnate the wood below?
What do you use if so? Tung?

Also, does it make sense to fill the holes from
the previous drillings/screws to prevent water
from getting in? What do you use if so?
Putty or just sawdust and wood glue?

Another question, when you buy diesel, you get
it in 5 l plastic cans. Is it safe to use those
onboard, or should you stick to those bulky
old-school red steel cans?

Doug Landau

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Jul 27, 2017, 6:34:05 PM7/27/17
to
No. I'm one of those poor souls who, at an E party, gets introverted, and notices, around 3AM, that he is alone downstairs, and hasn't seen hide nor hair of anyone else in 2-3 hours DOH!


cycl...@gmail.com

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Jul 27, 2017, 7:00:04 PM7/27/17
to
You're kidding right? It took one man on the wheel, one on the main sheet and two on the spinnaker halyard even with me shinnying up the mast. It's one hell of a long way from the top spreaders to the masthead. Luckily and much to my surprise it was fairly easy to get the jib halyard up from between the masthead fitting and the pulley. And after I put it back on the pulley it didn't give us any problems again.

cycl...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 7:05:23 PM7/27/17
to
On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 2:46:06 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> With the "rotate deck plate" solution, does it
> make sense to impregnate the wood below?
> What do you use if so? Tung?
>
> Also, does it make sense to fill the holes from
> the previous drillings/screws to prevent water
> from getting in? What do you use if so?
> Putty or just sawdust and wood glue?
>
> Another question, when you buy diesel, you get
> it in 5 l plastic cans. Is it safe to use those
> onboard, or should you stick to those bulky
> old-school red steel cans?

ALWAYS fill the holes. As I said before plug the holes with dowels. The plastic cans are very surprisingly almost as strong as the metal Jeep cans and they do not degrade to any significant degree from the hydrocarbon based fuel.

But DO NOT use any plastic container not rated for diesel. Most harden and then crack completely open.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 7:29:53 PM7/27/17
to
> ALWAYS fill the holes. As I said before plug
> the holes with dowels.

Dowels even when they are not to be drilled
into again as the deck plate is rotated to have
the holes on solid wood?

> The plastic cans are very surprisingly almost
> as strong as the metal Jeep cans and they do
> not degrade to any significant degree from
> the hydrocarbon based fuel.

No surprisingly, this is what I thought and why
I asked.

> But DO NOT use any plastic container not
> rated for diesel. Most harden and then crack
> completely open.

The original cans, of course.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 9:20:25 PM7/27/17
to
What has a poorly designed mast head sheave got to do with navigation?

I have no idea about "Bay Navigators" but certainly the average 7 -
8th grade student, in my day, could calculate the sides of triangle,
which is what you are talking about.

But to be honest, I don't believer your statement anyway as you said
"Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple
algebra" which I am sure that you meant us to believe that all you
needed was a sextant.

So tell us, oh great navigator, with only a sextant and no charts,
sailing directions, HO tables or accurate clock just how do you
achieve this task?
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 9:36:33 PM7/27/17
to
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 23:46:01 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>With the "rotate deck plate" solution, does it
>make sense to impregnate the wood below?
>What do you use if so? Tung?
>
>Also, does it make sense to fill the holes from
>the previous drillings/screws to prevent water
>from getting in? What do you use if so?
>Putty or just sawdust and wood glue?
>
It depends to a great deal where and what you are attaching. A life
line stanchion or a fishing rod clamp, for example.

But I do think I'd plug the unused holes with something. Maybe a
wooden plug?


>Another question, when you buy diesel, you get
>it in 5 l plastic cans. Is it safe to use those
>onboard, or should you stick to those bulky
>old-school red steel cans?

I used plastic, what I think were 20 ltr., "jerry cans". Red colored
fuel containers. If I were "sailing" from northern Malaysia to
Singapore down the Malacca straits, where in my experience the wind
never blows,I'd probably carry several 20 Ltr. cans on the foredeck as
fuel was cheaper in Malaysia and I would have no plans on re-entering
Malaysia once I had cleared and I'd expect to motor most of the way.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 27, 2017, 9:51:56 PM7/27/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> I used plastic, what I think were 20 ltr.,
> "jerry cans". Red colored fuel containers.
> If I were "sailing" from northern Malaysia to
> Singapore down the Malacca straits, where in
> my experience the wind never blows,I'd
> probably carry several 20 Ltr. cans on the
> foredeck as fuel was cheaper in Malaysia and
> I would have no plans on re-entering Malaysia
> once I had cleared and I'd expect to motor
> most of the way.

Cool :) Great, case closed.

Given the screws move back and forth and
ultimately gets loose that way, are there some
features that should be avoided?

I have self-drilling deck screws with a little
blade downmost. Shouldn't influence as pointed
downward, right?

But I also have screws that have little saw
teeth around their thread. Perhaps that should
be avoided?

Or doesn't really matter?

John B. Slocomb

unread,
Jul 28, 2017, 12:52:58 AM7/28/17
to
On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 03:51:53 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>John B. Slocomb wrote:
>
>> I used plastic, what I think were 20 ltr.,
>> "jerry cans". Red colored fuel containers.
>> If I were "sailing" from northern Malaysia to
>> Singapore down the Malacca straits, where in
>> my experience the wind never blows,I'd
>> probably carry several 20 Ltr. cans on the
>> foredeck as fuel was cheaper in Malaysia and
>> I would have no plans on re-entering Malaysia
>> once I had cleared and I'd expect to motor
>> most of the way.
>
>Cool :) Great, case closed.
>
>Given the screws move back and forth and
>ultimately gets loose that way, are there some
>features that should be avoided?
>
>I have self-drilling deck screws with a little
>blade downmost. Shouldn't influence as pointed
>downward, right?
>r
>But I also have screws that have little saw
>teeth around their thread. Perhaps that should
>be avoided?
>
>Or doesn't really matter?

I wonder what sort of boat this is with all the screws in the deck?
Most of my boats have been in the 10 metres or larger range and with
the deck fixtures bolted but even the smaller ones I've built didn't
have many screws in them
--
Cheers,

John B.

Emanuel Berg

unread,
Jul 28, 2017, 2:08:09 AM7/28/17
to
John B. Slocomb wrote:

> I wonder what sort of boat this is with all
> the screws in the deck?

OK, I get you a photo!

The screws are in small wood platforms.
It doesn't look more cluttered than any other
boat to the untrained eye. Single blocks,
stowage brackets, deck plates, ventilation,
hinges...

> Most of my boats have been in the 10 metres
> or larger range and with the deck fixtures
> bolted but even the smaller ones I've built
> didn't have many screws in them.

I got a 'measuring tape roll' (?) the other day
of 50 m and unless there is a specific method
to do it which is different from mine the boat
is ~7.5 meters, or ~25 feet.

avag...@gmail.com

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Jul 28, 2017, 2:23:35 AM7/28/17
to

John B. Slocomb

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Jul 28, 2017, 5:20:08 AM7/28/17
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 08:08:04 +0200, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:
Well, boat length is a variable :-)

Commonly people talk about the length on deck as that is normally the
longest measurement and it sounds bigger and more important to say,
Oh, yes. It is a 40 footer" rather then saying something like "well it
is 32.5 ft (on the waterline) although waterline length is a far more
important measurement of hull performance. Hull speed is calculated as
"hull speed in knots equals 1.34 times the square root of the
waterline length in feet", Not the on deck length :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.
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