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Curiosity Killed the Cat

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cycl...@gmail.com

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Jan 12, 2017, 4:22:14 PM1/12/17
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Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.

Doug Landau

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Jan 12, 2017, 4:31:51 PM1/12/17
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How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?

Benderthe.evilrobot

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Jan 12, 2017, 4:34:37 PM1/12/17
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<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bbddc1a-20d3-4c86...@googlegroups.com...
As usual; you've painted a very different picture to what was actually said.

cycl...@gmail.com

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Jan 12, 2017, 4:49:12 PM1/12/17
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Doug, are you unaware that Frank is a mechanical engineer who could have readily calculated the difference in expansion rates across an inch and an half adjustable cup, known the difference in the coefficient of expansion the lack of heat conduction across the thread barrier and the extreme difficulty in getting an aluminum frame to heat more than the steel bottom bracket cup?

If you do not understand these and these lunatic suggestions to Ted on how to "loosen" his bottom bracket I don't have to wonder why YOU don't have any curiosity about it.

I can only conclude that Frank was getting a good laugh at everyone else but me and Andrew. Luckily Ted seemed to take it all in good humor.

cycl...@gmail.com

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Jan 12, 2017, 4:49:56 PM1/12/17
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And as usual you don't even remember your last postings. Why don't you go hit your bike with a hammer.

Benderthe.evilrobot

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Jan 12, 2017, 4:56:09 PM1/12/17
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<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1084a661-675e-4b51...@googlegroups.com...
Why not - you've already hit your head with one.

AMuzi

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Jan 12, 2017, 5:00:13 PM1/12/17
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Long leadup to:

Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She
looks half-dead."

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Doug Landau

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Jan 12, 2017, 5:37:53 PM1/12/17
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On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:49:12 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:31:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Frank,
> > >
> > > With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?
> > >
> > > After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.
> > >
> > > This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.
> > >
> > > Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.
> > >
> > > Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.
> >
> > How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?
>
> Doug, are you unaware that Frank is a mechanical engineer who could have readily calculated the difference in expansion rates across an inch and an half adjustable cup, known the difference in the coefficient of expansion the lack of heat conduction across the thread barrier and the extreme difficulty in getting an aluminum frame to heat more than the steel bottom bracket cup?

I am aware of that, Tom! I am also aware that Frank likes to debate and is good at it and tends to not play all his cards at once. He might well have ran the calculation and then not disclosed the #s, thus far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFxcJp2VQPU


Tim McNamara

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Jan 12, 2017, 7:00:40 PM1/12/17
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LOL! Post of the week!

James

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Jan 12, 2017, 7:26:00 PM1/12/17
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Which half?

--
JS

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 12, 2017, 8:26:14 PM1/12/17
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:-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 12, 2017, 8:32:09 PM1/12/17
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Sorry, I didn't (and don't) find it all that interesting.

Anyway, if I were to try heating for the differential expansion, I
wouldn't do it the way you describe. And I wouldn't do it until trying
quite a few other techniques.

FWIW, I liked the Sheldon tool that Sir pointed out. And Blaster. With
a bench vise. But YMMV.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tosspot

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Jan 13, 2017, 1:09:10 AM1/13/17
to
On 12/01/17 23:00, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/12/2017 3:31 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

<snip>

>> How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?
>>
>
> Long leadup to:
>
> Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
> half-dead."

Door! ---->

Benderthe.evilrobot

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Jan 13, 2017, 2:33:29 PM1/13/17
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"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:o59ajo$8io$1...@dont-email.me...
Agreed - for me; heating it is pretty much a last resort.

Unlike Tom - I learn from my mistakes.

Phil Lee

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Jan 13, 2017, 6:41:17 PM1/13/17
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AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> considered Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:00:13 -0600
Well, there's some good news, and some bad news.

Tim McNamara

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Jan 14, 2017, 12:01:42 PM1/14/17
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I am not certain of that.

AMuzi

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Jan 14, 2017, 3:34:30 PM1/14/17
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But we know the velocity.

Andrew Chaplin

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Jan 14, 2017, 4:17:56 PM1/14/17
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AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in news:o5e1tl$2so$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 1/14/2017 11:01 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:25:58 +1100, James <james.e...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 13/01/17 09:00, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>>>> Long leadup to:
>>>>
>>>> Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
>>>> half-dead."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which half?
>>
>> I am not certain of that.
>
> But we know the velocity.

Is it African or European?
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Duane

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Jan 14, 2017, 4:54:55 PM1/14/17
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Andrew Chaplin <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in news:o5e1tl$2so$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 1/14/2017 11:01 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:25:58 +1100, James <james.e...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 13/01/17 09:00, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Long leadup to:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
>>>>> half-dead."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which half?
>>>
>>> I am not certain of that.
>>
>> But we know the velocity.
>
> Is it African or European?

Laden or unladen?

--
duane

Tim McNamara

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Jan 14, 2017, 9:25:04 PM1/14/17
to
On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 14:34:30 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/14/2017 11:01 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:25:58 +1100, James <james.e...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 13/01/17 09:00, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>>>> Long leadup to:
>>>>
>>>> Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
>>>> half-dead."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which half?
>>
>> I am not certain of that.
>>
>
> But we know the velocity.

Good, but for some reason I can't locate the cat.

Sir Ridesalot

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Jan 14, 2017, 10:38:55 PM1/14/17
to
Doesn't matter. Thread says "Curiosity killed the cat". However the next line should be "But satisfaction brought it back".

Cheers

John B.

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Jan 15, 2017, 12:13:53 AM1/15/17
to
But. Was the cat riding a bicycle?
--
cheers,

John B.

Tosspot

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Jan 15, 2017, 4:15:50 AM1/15/17
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Don't panic, it got tangled up with me.

Theodore Heise

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Jan 15, 2017, 9:10:34 AM1/15/17
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On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:49:10 -0800 (PST),
cycl...@gmail.com <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:31:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > ....This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting
> > > his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer
> > > was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware
> > > that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and
> > > Sheldon.
> >
> > How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?

> If you do not understand these and these lunatic suggestions to
> Ted on how to "loosen" his bottom bracket I don't have to
> wonder why YOU don't have any curiosity about it.
>
> I can only conclude that Frank was getting a good laugh at
> everyone else but me and Andrew. Luckily Ted seemed to take it
> all in good humor.

Well, some of the discussion was fairly obviously theoretical
(e.g., what chemical treatments that might deal with various
oxides), but the line between practical and hypoethetical
approaches wasn't always entirely clear--especially with heating.
I filtered it all with what seemed to be possible within my range
of skills and available tools. Don't know if that's evidence of
good humor, good thinking, or stubborness. Maybe a bit of each.

I did enjoy the inputs, and most of the exchanges. Thanks to all!

--
Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> Bloomington, IN, USA

Joy Beeson

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Jan 15, 2017, 10:51:06 PM1/15/17
to
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:13:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:

> But. Was the cat riding a bicycle?

My neighbor's cat used to love to ride on my bicycle. I had a pair of
nylon panniers that draped over the rack, so the cloth connecting them
made a solid platform that he could get his claws into. Whenever he
jumped up there, I'd take a few laps in the driveway. (I think he
would have gone travelling with me, but I was afraid to take him out
into traffic.)

Once I leaned the bike against the garage and went inside for quite a
while. When I came out again, Tiger was still sitting on the rack, so
I took him on another lap.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Phil Lee

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Jan 18, 2017, 8:55:53 PM1/18/17
to
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> considered Sun, 15 Jan 2017
22:51:03 -0400 the perfect time to write:

>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:13:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>> But. Was the cat riding a bicycle?
>
>My neighbor's cat used to love to ride on my bicycle. I had a pair of
>nylon panniers that draped over the rack, so the cloth connecting them
>made a solid platform that he could get his claws into. Whenever he
>jumped up there, I'd take a few laps in the driveway. (I think he
>would have gone travelling with me, but I was afraid to take him out
>into traffic.)
>
>Once I leaned the bike against the garage and went inside for quite a
>while. When I came out again, Tiger was still sitting on the rack, so
>I took him on another lap.

We used to have a cat called Tiger, who delighted in traveling on the
parcel shelf in the back of our car (carpet on that, for him to cling
on to).
He'd sit there unmoving for ages, until we got caught in traffic, then
stand up, stretch elaborately, turn around, and lay down again, much
to the surprise of any other surrounding motorists, who'd assumed he
was a toy until he moved. We got used to kids pointing him out with
excitement to their amused parents, and on occasion even had to wind
down the window to inform them that yes, he really was a live cat, and
he liked to travel that way :)

Doug Landau

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Jan 18, 2017, 9:14:34 PM1/18/17
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Here's one riding on the handlebars of a harley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS2TLgQiqR0

Frank Krygowski

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Jan 18, 2017, 11:32:30 PM1/18/17
to
On 1/18/2017 8:55 PM, Phil Lee wrote:
>
>
> We used to have a cat called Tiger, who delighted in traveling on the
> parcel shelf in the back of our car (carpet on that, for him to cling
> on to).
> He'd sit there unmoving for ages, until we got caught in traffic, then
> stand up, stretch elaborately, turn around, and lay down again, much
> to the surprise of any other surrounding motorists, who'd assumed he
> was a toy until he moved. We got used to kids pointing him out with
> excitement to their amused parents, and on occasion even had to wind
> down the window to inform them that yes, he really was a live cat, and
> he liked to travel that way :)

Ah. Much nicer than the two cats belonging to my daughter and her
husband. When they moved back east from Portland, my wife and I had the
job of doing a 5 day epic drive in their Mustang with two cats yowling
in terror the entire way! :-( The things we do for our kids...


--
- Frank Krygowski

Doug Landau

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Jan 19, 2017, 12:08:19 AM1/19/17
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If you were thinkin you coulda picked up some ganj while still in Portland, as soon as that shit started, blown a hit or two in their direction, and driven home in peace.




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