Can't We All Just Get Along?

[EdwardDolan]

Blackblade and other idiots like him think trails can be shared. Yea, we can all be just one happy family enjoying what nature has to offer, no matter our mode of transport. Hells Bells, we can't even share what is so easily available in the cities – roads and streets galore. Read the latest example of what happens when barbarians like Blackblade just wants to do what he wants to do. If you want to live in civilized society enjoying the good life, not everyone can do whatever he wants to do. Elementary my dear Watson!

 

From: gwyn wahlmann <gwah...@sbcglobal.net>

Subject: regarding Multi-Use Trails

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:50:34 -0500

 

From the 700+ comment section following today's NYTimes article,

"Death on a Bike," I started a collection of complaints regarding

bike/pedestrian sharing, but there were far too many to

continue.  Suffice it to say, bikes and pedestrians are not a good

mix on the streets, so why would they be on trails?  Here are a few

comments.......

 

A. Stanton

 

  Dallas, TX 5 hours ago

 

 

And then there's the other side of the story:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/nyregion/woman-58-in-critical-conditio...

 

 

Uniack

 

  Woodside, NY 5 hours ago

 

Today a woman was mowed down by a bicyclist on a racing bike, riding

at excessive speed in an urban setting and not on a bike path. So

what's your point?

I don't recall a case where a pedestrian was responsible for injury

or death because they ran into a bike or auto.

Anyone who has been hit by a careless cycler, as I have been, would

be more sympathetic if there were strict regulations strictly

enforced for both drivers and riders.

 

ellieny

 

  is a trusted commenter New York 2 hours ago

 

And what about people who walk? RIding a bike to work may be

hip/cool/sexy, but some people enjoy just walking. Some enjoy it so

much they don't even own bikes or cars.

 

Crashes like the one described in this article happen all the time in

New York City, but here it's not just bikers being hit. It's also

pedestrians (being hit by both cars and bikes), and I believe walker

fatalities exceed biker fatalities. Just yesterday the wife of CBS

executive was mowed down by a biker while she was walking through

Central Park on a nice fall day. She sustained massive head injuries

and is now on life support at NY Pres-Weill Cornell.

 

 

CMK

 

  Honolulu 2 hours ago

 

I drive, motorcycle, bicycle and walk. I always believed that

separating pedestrians for motor traffic was a good idea. Then I was

mowed down by a bike and I thought, we have to separate cars and

bikes and pedestrians. Lately, I have also been sharing the sidewalks

with segues and electric scooters. I don't know what the solutions

are: laws, zones, use schedules, permits, physical barriers? Don't

get me started on ocean activities: boating, sailing, swimming,

diving, fishing, surfing. We should be assured that doing a legal

activity is reasonably safe.

 

 

Maurice

 

  New York, N.Y. 4 hours ago

 

The situation in Central Park is appalling. There is no policing in

the roadways or elsewhere. Cyclists (and others---I almost got

impacted by a skate boarder this afternoon) ignore red lights and

instead the pedestrian is cautioned to look both ways before crossing

even when he has the right of way with a green light.Everyone ignores

the nice neat signs saying "no bike riding on paths" and there is no

one to enforce it. Try riding between 59th St and 72nd street. And

woe to the early morning walker or leisure biker when the Tour de

France hopefuls are practicing.

 

The Police Department abandoned its enforcement to the Parks

Department which, I suppose, abandoned it in turn to the Central Park

Conservancy which appears to run the park and state what you can and cannot do.

 

 

Sydney

 

  Tucson, AZ 6 hours ago

 

Unfortunately, cyclists are often as cavalier about the safety of

pedestrians as motorists are of theirs. Might makes right, I guess.

 

 

Surgres

 

  New York 6 hours ago

 

Today in NYC a cyclist hit a pedestrian and caused her to suffer

brain death. The accident happened in Central Park and the cyclist

was going at a high speed, in the wrong lane, on a high-end racing

bike. Cyclists have no right to speed or to disobey traffic laws, and

yet they do. We cannot discuss safety unless cyclists take greater

responsibility. Pedestrians must always be the top priority!

 

 

sad taxpayer

 

  NY, NY 7 hours ago

 

Westchester has a wonderful north south bike path. Guess what? Bike

riders refuse to use it, opting for narrow adjecent two-lines roads

full of cars. There reason? The bike path is also used by slow riding

children and adult walkers. The size and speed difference between

those two groups pales when bike riders are compared with truck and

cars, yet the bike paths are underused while the Westchester

bicyclists crowd the cars and trucks on the roads.

 

Just a thought

 

  New York 7 hours ago

 

I've never been hit by a car; been hit 3 times by a bike. Let's talk reality.

 

Shall we hear a NYT story of the brain-dead woman hit by a speeding

cyclist in Central Park yesterday?

 

Pedestrians need protection from rogue cyclists as much as from

speeding drivers.

 

 

bignybugs

 

  new york 7 hours ago

 

and when on your bike, whizzing along, the wind in your face, don't

forget that there are people even more vulnerable than you are: pedestrians ...

 

 

Sandra

 

  Portland 7 hours ago

 

Yesterday, a woman in New York was struck by a fast-moving bicyclist

and now is in critical condition. Yes, drivers need to be careful,

but so do bicyclists. My city is as bike crazy as Seattle (maybe

more), and at any given moment you can see bikes flying through red

lights or edging pedestrians off walking paths. Rarely are they

ticketed by police. I drive, I bike and I walk; all three have their

own share of danger. Perhaps the best place to start is by agreeing

to be civil to each other and accepting that the rules of the road,

including traffic signals and stop signs, apply to all of us.

 

 

J Nuccio

 

  Oregon 7 hours ago

 

I was recently in the Netherlands and what they also have is

designated bike paths - not part of a road to share - but separate

paved paths. Often they share the sidewalks with pedestrians but I

did notice that bikes rule! I have been hit by a car - at a low speed

- so all I suffered was a broken thumb. But I have not felt confident

since and do not bike much in traffic now. I would like to see in the

US is the same types of bike paths as are available in the Netherlands.

Reply

Recommend

NYT Pick

stephanie

 

  ny, ny 6 hours ago

 

For good or ill, we are not the Netherlands. And thanks, but no

thanks; the last thing a walking city like NY needs is bikes on the

sidewalks. Dealing with other pedestrians is dangerous enough.

 

I think the entire notion of attempting to turn NYC into a small

European town (Yes, Mr. Bloomberg, this one's for you) is ludicrous--

and encouraging more cyclists to place themselves and pedestrians in

peril, unconscionable.

Reply

10Recommended

 

Janice

 

  NYC 2 hours ago

 

I agree wholeheartedly with stephanie. The thing I always disliked

about Amsterdam was dealing with trying to cross the street with

cars, trucks, trolleys and bikes all whizzing along. There were

always intersections in Amsterdam where I had to wait for a native to

come along so I could accompany them across the street since I

couldn't figure out how to get safely across! It was always so great

to come home to New York where there were no bikes and crossing the

street was straightforward and simple. That's all gone now.

 

I really dislike what has happened with the advent of the Bloomberg

bike lanes. Traveling in New York City has become a nightmare since

all of the bike lanes have been put in. There has been no major

increase in the availability of public transportation to offset the

loss of road space so traffic is always a problem now over much of

the city. There has been no serious or effective attempt to educate

or regulate cyclists. Crossing the street is harder with bikes riding

in the wrong direction, on sidewalks, too fast or not stopping when

they should. I wish a mayor would come along with the chutzpah to get

rid of all the bike lanes and the Citibikes and return the streets

back to normal.

Reply

1Recommend

 

 

 

Casual Observer

 

  Los Angeles 6 hours ago

 

gonealgo,

 

How many of your bicycle riding acquaintances understand how much

damage they can cause to a pedestrian in a collision -- that

pedestrians have been maimed and killed by collisions with bicycle

riders? How many understand that if a bicycle rider is moving at the

same speed as an automobile following right behind it and they both

must stop that the bicycle will stop in a far shorter distance than the auto?

 

 

SY

 

  NYC 8 hours ago

 

Any death is a cause for sadness, and the death of this young woman

cyclist means great loss for friends and family. But as a non biking

pedestrian in the city, and a man of a certain age, one who uses a

cane for long walks, I find that the cyclists have added a new, great

hazard to those of us who still use our legs to get around in this

city. I have seen them riding facing traffic instead of with the

flow, and every day there is at lead one adult cyclist who is

blithely riding on the sidewalk. Licensing and policing are needed -

for the good of the pedestrians and for the cyclists themselves.

 

 

Tony

 

  New York 8 hours ago

 

Didn't a cyclist run into and kill a pedestrian in Central Park just

this week? It's not just cyclists vs. motorized vehicles, it's

cyclists vs. pedestrians.

Reply

5Recommended

 

DSM

 

  Westfield 9 hours ago

 

Although the writer notes how arrogant and reckless he finds

bicyclists when he is driving a car, he ignores the far more

important issue--bicyclists routinely injure or kill pedestrians by

speeding down streets the wrong way; racing up behind pedestrians

then colliding with those who step to the side to avoid a puddle, not

knowing the bicyclist is there; jumping on and off sidewalks; etc.

Alec Baldwin is the only bicyclist I have ever seen or read of

getting ticketed for such behavior.

 

 

George

 

  NYC 10 hours ago

 

At my age of 82, I do not ride a bike. Nor do I drive. But I walk a

lot. I find bicycles are far more dangerous in New York City than any

other vehicle. Too many speedy delivery men on bicycles, who, after

an accident, claim they speak no English. Too many bicyclists on the

sidewalks, who would rather endanger pedestrians than submit to

danger themselves on the streets . Bicyclists should be licensed with

small plates visible on their bikes. And traffic laws enforced,

especially after an accident.

 

 

richard kopperdahl

 

  new york city 15 hours ago

 

I haven't seen as many white memorial bikes in town since the

proliferation of bike lanes. I'm and old guy and I have more close

encounters on the streets and sidewalks with bikes than I do with

autos. They often go the wrong way on bike lanes, they don't respect

red lights and although there are periodic crackdowns on wayward and

criminal bike riders, they're soon back to their free-weeling ways.

 

A woman was struck yesterday by a $4,000 racing bike in Central Park.

The bike rider was speeding in a car lane and yelled for the woman to

get out of the way before he struck her. She is "brain dead"

according to a New York Post report.

Reply

12Recommend

 

TheOwl

 

  New England 15 hours ago

 

Interesting story in the papers today of the mindless cyclist hitting

a pedestrian in a crosswalk and rendering her brain dead.

 

Cyclist was speeding and not in the bike lane. His only apparent

effort to avoid the accident was to shout "get out of the way".

 

Mr. Egan's zeal to defend the cyclists seems to run headlong into an

agument that suggests that cyclists need to be considerate of the

rights of those who use more conventional modes of

transportation...like their feet ! ! !

 

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn fucking bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

 

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.”

~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),

from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

 

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

 

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

 

Ed Dolan the Great

aka

Saint Edward the Great

 

 

[Blackblade]

So, clearly, the solution is to get more people mountainbiking so they are not endangering pedestrians in the park where there is much congestion.

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:88e1b18c-7692-4ef4...@googlegroups.com...

 

>> So, clearly, the solution is to get more people mountainbiking so they are not endangering pedestrians in the park where there is much congestion.

 

Cycling on hiking trails only works if in fact there is no congestion. In those places where there is congestion, it doesn't work ... as any fool can tell you! But I am against biking on hiking trails whether congested or not because it is a conflict of both means and purpose. Learn how to ride on streets and roads!

[Blackblade]

> >> So, clearly, the solution is to get more people mountainbiking so
> they are not endangering pedestrians in the park where there is much
> congestion.
>
> Cycling on hiking trails only works if in fact there is no
> congestion. In those places where there is congestion, it doesn't work ... as
> any fool can tell you!

Congestion is, indeed, always an issue whether of hikers, bikers, equestrians or a mix of all those user groups. More congestion equals more conflict.

> But I am against biking on hiking trails whether
> congested or not because it is a conflict of both means and purpose. Learn how
> to ride on streets and roads!

You know what ... you're an idiot. You start a thread pointing out how dangerous it has become to go riding on a road ... then advocate that riders desert the trails and instead ride on the road !

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:0f3abbd7-cc76-49d3...@googlegroups.com...

[...]

 

Edward Dolan wrote:

 

> But I am against biking on hiking trails whether

> congested or not because it is a conflict of both means and purpose. Learn how

> to ride on streets and roads!

 

>> You know what ... you're an idiot.  You start a thread pointing out how dangerous it has become to go riding on a road ... then advocate that riders desert the trails and instead ride on the road !

 

Bicycles are wheeled contraptions that were designed for streets and roads.Some roads are extremely dangerous to be cycling, others are relatively safe. The only idiot here, as usual, is you!

[Blackblade]

> >> You know what ... you're an idiot.  You start a thread
> pointing out how dangerous it has become to go riding on a road ... then
> advocate that riders desert the trails and instead ride on the road !
>
> Bicycles are wheeled contraptions that were designed for
> streets and roads.Some roads are extremely dangerous to be cycling, others are
> relatively safe. The only idiot here, as usual, is you!

And you want to stop riders on relatively safe trails (much lower fatality numbers) and displace them onto more dangerous roads.

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:54c791d0-0592-4d24...@googlegroups.com...

 

> >> You know what ... you're an idiot.  You start a thread

> pointing out how dangerous it has become to go riding on a road ... then

> advocate that riders desert the trails and instead ride on the road !

>

> Bicycles are wheeled contraptions that were designed for

> streets and roads. Some roads are extremely dangerous to be cycling, others are

> relatively safe. The only idiot here, as usual, is you!

 

>>>> And you want to stop riders on relatively safe trails (much lower fatality numbers) and displace them onto more dangerous roads.

 

I most definitely want to displace them off of hiking trails. So what else is new!

[Blackblade]

> >>>> And you want to stop riders on relatively safe trails
> (much lower fatality numbers) and displace them onto more dangerous roads.
>
> I most definitely want to displace them off of hiking trails.
> So what else is new!

Yes, Ed, you want them off hiking trails ... irrespective of the health and safety impact. Precisely my point.

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:76175a06-c95c-4bca...@googlegroups.com...

I have given you dozens of reasons why bikes don’t belong on hiking trails in the course of our correspondence. It is tedious to keep repeating myself for the benefit of an idiot like you. Simply put, your ignorance is unconquerable!

[Blackblade]

> I have given you dozens of reasons why bikes don't belong on
> hiking trails in the course of our correspondence.

And I've disposed of them all as the ramblings of an illogical and irrational fool.

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:116b0211-e2ad-4cd5...@googlegroups.com...

Only in your own mind. All serious hikers will agree with what I have posted.

[Blackblade]

> > I have given you dozens of reasons why bikes don't belong on
> > hiking trails in the course of our correspondence.
>
> >> And I've disposed of them all as the ramblings of an illogical and
> irrational fool.
>
> Only in your own mind. All serious hikers will agree with what
> I have posted.

Well, I'm happy for these interactions to be publicly available and for the general population to decide.

I don't expect, any longer, to be able to have a rational conversation with you because you simply lack the intellectual firepower to participate cogently.

[KoncussionKid]

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:36:06 PM UTC-4, Edward Dolan wrote:
> Blackblade and other idiots like him think trails can be shared. Yea, we
> can all be just one happy family enjoying what nature has to offer, no matter
> our mode of transport. Hells Bells, we can't even share what is so easily

> available in the cities - roads and streets galore. Read the latest example of

> what happens when barbarians like Blackblade just wants to do what he wants to
> do. If you want to live in civilized society enjoying the good life, not
> everyone can do whatever he wants to do. Elementary my dear Watson!
>
>
>
> From: gwyn wahlmann <gwah...@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Subject: regarding Multi-Use Trails
>
> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:50:34 -0500

> From the 700+ comment section following today's NYTimes article,
>
> "Death on a Bike," I started a collection of complaints regarding
> bike/pedestrian sharing, but there were far too many to
>
> continue. Suffice it to say, bikes and pedestrians are not a good
> mix on the streets, so why would they be on trails? Here are a few
>
> comments.......
> A. Stanton
>
> Dallas, TX 5 hours ago
> And then there's the other side of the story:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/nyregion/woman-58-in-critical-conditio..
>

> hikers - unless they want to get off their god damn fucking bikes and walk like

> everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when
> they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to
> mountain biking!
>
>
> "Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground."
>
> ~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
>
> from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"
>
>
>
> Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.
> Trails are for walking. What's the matter? Can't walk?
>
> Ed Dolan the Great
>
> aka
>
> Saint Edward the Great
>
>
>
>

Well, it's my first time posting here. As a mtn biker in New England,
I belong to HEMBA (New England Mtn Bike Assn). It sponsors a Bike
Patrol that receives first aid training (ARC certified). Each patroller
carries first aid AND a desire to maintain some level of civility
and courtesy on the trails.

I believe about ten or more years ago that Curtis Sliwa formed a
citizen's group to fight crime. I do not have all the details, of
its success so please don't pounce.

Mtn bikers often ride with mini-cams. Why not consider a group of riders
who carry personal mini-cams? I'm sure one lawyer in NYC and elsewhere
would probably appreciate some audio/video evidence. :-)

Just my two cents ... most likely won't reply for a few weeks
too much anger here ....

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:4669eace-38e6-4b3b...@googlegroups.com...

 

> > I have given you dozens of reasons why bikes don't belong on

> > hiking trails in the course of our correspondence.

>

> >> And I've disposed of them all as the ramblings of an illogical and

> irrational fool.

>

> Only in your own mind. All serious hikers will agree with what

> I have posted.

 

>>> Well, I'm happy for these interactions to be publicly available and for the general population to decide.

 

Hell yes! Me too!

 

>>> I don't expect, any longer, to be able to have a rational conversation with you because you simply lack the intellectual firepower to participate cogently.

 

You have not been rational from day one as far as I am concerned. But more than that, you are evil – a real scumbag like all your tribe.

[EdwardDolan]

"KoncussionKid"  wrote in message news:f7f11485-6533-4755...@googlegroups.com...

 

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:36:06 PM UTC-4, Edward Dolan wrote:

> Blackblade and other idiots like him think trails can be shared. Yea, we

> can all be just one happy family enjoying what nature has to offer, no matter

> our mode of transport. Hells Bells, we can't even share what is so easily

> available in the cities - roads and streets galore. Read the latest example of

> what happens when barbarians like Blackblade just wants to do what he wants to

> do. If you want to live in civilized society enjoying the good life, not

> everyone can do whatever he wants to do. Elementary my dear Watson!

>

> 

>

> From: gwyn wahlmann <gwah...@sbcglobal.net>

>

> Subject: regarding Multi-Use Trails

>

> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:50:34 -0500

 

> From the 700+ comment section following today's NYTimes article,

>

> "Death on a Bike," I started a collection of complaints regarding

> bike/pedestrian sharing, but there were far too many to

>

> continue.  Suffice it to say, bikes and pedestrians are not a good

> mix on the streets, so why would they be on trails?  Here are a few

>

> comments.......

 

>> I also could be posting thousands of articles about how bikers are ruinning wilderness trails for hikers, but they all tend to have a sameness about them just like your list of comments.about urban conflicts. A scoundrel like Blackblade does not care for true life stories or comments from pedestrians. He prefers to put his faith in meaningless numbers. That is because he is a lout and does not care about how he effects others.

[...]

 

> Well, it's my first time posting here. As a mtn biker in New England,

I belong to HEMBA (New England Mtn Bike Assn). It sponsors a Bike

Patrol that receives first aid training (ARC certified). Each patroller

carries first aid AND a desire to maintain some level of civility

and courtesy on the trails.

 

>> No matter how civil and courteous you are on a trail, you do not belong there unless you are walking. Hikers resent the hell out of you for being there on a bike.

 

> I believe about ten or more years ago that Curtis Sliwa formed a

citizen's group to fight crime. I do not have all the details, of

its success so please don't pounce.

 

> Mtn bikers often ride with mini-cams. Why not consider a group of riders

who carry personal mini-cams? I'm sure one lawyer in NYC and elsewhere

would probably appreciate some audio/video evidence. :-)

 

> Just my two cents ... most likely won't reply for a few weeks

too much anger here ....

 

>> The only anger here is occasioned by the world’s number one Asshole who goes by the moniker of Blackblade.This jackass is from England which right there pisses me off. I don’t think they have any true wilderness there except maybe in the outer reaches of Scotland.

 

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn fucking bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

[Blackblade]

> > > I have given you dozens of reasons why bikes don't belong on
> > > hiking trails in the course of our correspondence.
>
> > >> And I've disposed of them all as the ramblings of an
> illogical and
> > irrational fool.
>
> > Only in your own mind. All serious hikers will agree with what
> > I have posted.
>
> >>> Well, I'm happy for these interactions to be publicly
> available and for the general population to decide.
>
> Hell yes! Me too!
>
> >>> I don't expect, any longer, to be able to have a rational
> conversation with you because you simply lack the intellectual firepower to
> participate cogently.
>
> You have not been rational from day one as far as I am
> concerned.

You appreciation of what is rational is rather suspect. You admit that the presence of a bike causes you 'Mental Torture' and you claim to know an awful lot of things which you don't.

> But more than that, you are evil - a real scumbag like all your
> tribe.

You're entitled to your view. Personally, I think it's the other way around. As a biker AND hiker, I'm completely fine with reaching a sensible accomodation. I don't expect to be able to ride every trail, I accept that there need to be spaces for quiet contemplation and that we all have to ensure that we don't destroy the thing we love for future generations. However, where we part company is that, unlike you, I don't for a second believe that my wants automatically trump everyone else's. You, on the other hand, are adamant that you won't share with anyone and that, despite evidence to the contrary, you are simply 'right' ... axiomatically.

I think that makes you the selfish, unreasonable, irrational and hubristic individual.

But, hey, it's all down in black and white for others to judge for themselves.

[Blackblade]

> >> I also could be posting thousands of articles about
> how bikers are ruinning wilderness trails for hikers, but they all tend to have
> a sameness about them just like your list of comments.about urban conflicts. A
> scoundrel like Blackblade does not care for true life stories or comments from
> pedestrians. He prefers to put his faith in meaningless numbers. That is because
> he is a lout and does not care about how he effects others.

No, Ed, you can't post thousands of articles or even complaints; I challenged you on this a while ago and you failed. You claimed that, in Marin, there were thousands of reports of conflict between bikers an hikers. Funnily enough, when it came down to it there were a small handful.

I'm fine with stories and comments but, unless you put them into context, they are worthless. If one person in a thousand feels something do they get to dictate to the other nine hundred and ninety nine ? That's not right.

I have said, repeatedly, that I will compromise precisely because I do care about others. You, on the other hand, would happily disenfranchise all mountainbikers ... so who is the selfish individual who doesn't care about their effect on others. Shame on you.

> > Well, it's my first time posting here. As a mtn biker in New
> England,
> I belong to HEMBA (New England Mtn Bike Assn). It sponsors a Bike
> Patrol that receives first aid training (ARC certified). Each
> patroller
> carries first aid AND a desire to maintain some level of civility
> and courtesy on the trails.
>
> >> No matter how civil and courteous you are on a trail,
> you do not belong there unless you are walking. Hikers resent the hell out of
> you for being there on a bike.

What Ed means is that HE resents the hell out of you for being there on a bike. Most hikers don't care at all as long as you are courteous and don't inconvenience them. Ed considers the mere presence of a bike as "Mental Torture" ... so you're not going to get a proportionate response from him.

> > I believe about ten or more years ago that Curtis Sliwa formed a
> citizen's group to fight crime. I do not have all the details, of
> its success so please don't pounce.
> > Mtn bikers often ride with mini-cams. Why not consider a group of
> riders
> who carry personal mini-cams? I'm sure one lawyer in NYC and
> elsewhere
> would probably appreciate some audio/video evidence. :-)
>
> > Just my two cents ... most likely won't reply for a few weeks
> too much anger here ....
>
> >> The only anger here is occasioned by the world's
> number one Asshole who goes by the moniker of Blackblade.

Ah, Ed, increasingly choleric. I had no idea I was able to engender such a reaction simply by sticking to facts and logic.

> This jackass is from
> England which right there pisses me off. I don't think they have any true
> wilderness there except maybe in the outer reaches of Scotland.

Ah, Ed, again with the flawed thinking. Rather than just spouting why don't you actually bother to check first ? Then you wouldn't look like an idiot. There are many national parks in the UK.

Interestingly, in one sense you are right in that Scotland has the most acreage of such parks ... and they are probably more untramelled too. However, Scotland also has 'Right to Roam' legislation which means you can hike and ride it all too.

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:8a361a8b-2b83-49d0...@googlegroups.com...

[...]

 

Edward Dolan wrote:

 

> You have not been rational from day one as far as I am

> concerned.

 

>> You appreciation of what is rational is rather suspect.  You admit that the presence of a bike causes you 'Mental Torture' and you claim to know an awful lot of things which you don't.

 

I know what I know and the main thing I know is that you are an Asshole!

 

> But more than that, you are evil - a real scumbag like all your

> tribe.

 

>> You're entitled to your view.  Personally, I think it's the other way around.  As a biker AND hiker, I'm completely fine with reaching a sensible accomodation.  I don't expect to be able to ride every trail, I accept that there need to be spaces for quiet contemplation and that we all have to ensure that we don't destroy the thing we love for future generations.  However, where we part company is that, unlike you, I don't for a second believe that my wants automatically trump everyone else's.  You, on the other hand, are adamant that you won't share with anyone and that, despite evidence to the contrary, you are simply 'right' ... axiomatically.

 

Get your own god damn fucking trails. We hikers do not want you on OUR trails.

 

>> I think that makes you the selfish, unreasonable, irrational and hubristic individual.

 

Nope, as always, you are only describing yourself.

 

>> But, hey, it's all down in black and white for others to judge for themselves.

 

I too will leave it for others to decide for themselves.

[EdwardDolan]

"Blackblade"  wrote in message news:49b1b5e7-0474-4d49...@googlegroups.com...

 

Edward Dolan wrote:

 

> >> I also could be posting thousands of articles about

> how bikers are ruining wilderness trails for hikers, but they all tend to have

> a sameness about them just like your list of comments.about urban conflicts. A

> scoundrel like Blackblade does not care for true life stories or comments from

> pedestrians. He prefers to put his faith in meaningless numbers. That is because

> he is a lout and does not care about how he effects others.

 

>> No, Ed, you can't post thousands of articles or even complaints; I challenged you on this a while ago and you failed.  You claimed that, in Marin, there were thousands of reports of conflict between bikers an hikers.  Funnily enough, when it came down to it there were a small handful.

 

I have got better things to do with my time than to post thousands of media reports on how mountain bikers manage to kill themselves. Fuck the whole tribe! 

 

>> I'm fine with stories and comments but, unless you put them into context, they are worthless.  If one person in a thousand feels something do they get to dictate to the other nine hundred and ninety nine ?  That's not right.

 

Media reports give the whole context. It is your data that is fucked.

 

>> I have said, repeatedly, that I will compromise precisely because I do care about others.  You, on the other hand, would happily disenfranchise all mountainbikers ... so who is the selfish individual who doesn't care about their effect on others.  Shame on you.

 

Nope, shame on you for not acknowledging that irreconcilable conflicts exist on how bikers use trails as opposed to how hikers use trails. Hikers are unable to use trails which bikers are using. I ask you, who is being selfish? We cannot share what can‘t be shared. I charge you with being a criminal aggressor. You and your ilk are destroying what has been a haven for sensitive souls seeking a haven from the the ills of civilization. Walking a trail is good for the soul, something you apparently know nothing about.

 

> > Well, it's my first time posting here. As a mtn biker in New

> England,

> I belong to HEMBA (New England Mtn Bike Assn). It sponsors a Bike

> Patrol that receives first aid training (ARC certified). Each

> patroller

> carries first aid AND a desire to maintain some level of civility

> and courtesy on the trails.

>

> >> No matter how civil and courteous you are on a trail,

> you do not belong there unless you are walking. Hikers resent the hell out of

> you for being there on a bike.

 

>> What Ed means is that HE resents the hell out of you for being there on a bike.  Most hikers don't care at all as long as you are courteous and don't inconvenience them.  Ed considers the mere presence of a bike as "Mental Torture" ... so you're not going to get a proportionate response from him.

 

Here is a mountain biker at his most heinous. He knows nothing of what a trail is for. In truth, he is a barbarian.

 

> > I believe about ten or more years ago that Curtis Sliwa formed a

> citizen's group to fight crime. I do not have all the details, of

> its success so please don't pounce.

> > Mtn bikers often ride with mini-cams. Why not consider a group of

> riders

> who carry personal mini-cams? I'm sure one lawyer in NYC and

> elsewhere

> would probably appreciate some audio/video evidence. :-)

>

> > Just my two cents ... most likely won't reply for a few weeks

> too much anger here ....

>

> >> The only anger here is occasioned by the world's

> number one Asshole who goes by the moniker of Blackblade.

 

>> Ah, Ed, increasingly choleric.  I had no idea I was able to engender such a reaction simply by sticking to facts and logic.

 

All the facts and logic are on my side. A hiking trail is a narrow winding path and there is no way it can be shared with bikers. I charge Blackblade with being nothing but a criminal trespasser.

 

> This jackass is from

> England which right there pisses me off. I don't think they have any true

> wilderness there except maybe in the outer reaches of Scotland.

 

>> Ah, Ed, again with the flawed thinking.  Rather than just spouting why don't you actually bother to check first ?  Then you wouldn't look like an idiot.  There are many national parks in the UK.

 

Yes, national parks that are like state parks here in the US.

 

>> Interestingly, in one sense you are right in that Scotland has the most acreage of such parks ... and they are probably more untramelled too.  However, Scotland also has 'Right to Roam' legislation which means you can hike and ride it all too.

 

London dominates all of England and Scotland too. It is like a cancer on the face of the UK. If I were an Englishman like Blackblade I would go to the Hebrides like Mendelssohn to get away from fucking humanity as much as possible.  But Blackblade is a fucking mountain biker and he likes nothing better than to destroy trails for hikers.

[Blackblade]

> > >> I also could be posting thousands of articles about
> > how bikers are ruining wilderness trails for hikers, but they all tend
> to have
> > a sameness about them just like your list of comments.about urban
> conflicts. A
> > scoundrel like Blackblade does not care for true life stories or
> comments from
> > pedestrians. He prefers to put his faith in meaningless numbers. That
> is because
> > he is a lout and does not care about how he effects others.
>
> >> No, Ed, you can't post thousands of articles or even complaints; I
> challenged you on this a while ago and you failed. You claimed that, in
> Marin, there were thousands of reports of conflict between bikers an
> hikers. Funnily enough, when it came down to it there were a small
> handful.
>
> I have got better things to do with my time than to post
> thousands of media reports on how mountain bikers manage to kill themselves.
> Fuck the whole tribe!

And, likewise, I have much better things to do than post the more than three times as many incidents describing how hikers expire.

So, let's get to a summary of the overall situation shall we ... which is that both activities are relatively safe when compared with things like rugby, skiing, football, driving, road cycling etc etc etc.

However, more pertinently, you are again attempting to change the subject. You were discussing reports of complaints about mountainbikers from hikers. I don't think you have too many of those ... so it should be easy to find them.

> >> I'm fine with stories and comments but, unless you put them into
> context, they are worthless. If one person in a thousand feels something
> do they get to dictate to the other nine hundred and ninety nine ? That's
> not right.
>
> Media reports give the whole context. It is your data that is
> fucked.

Fine, then address the more than three times as many media reports of hikers expiring !

> >> I have said, repeatedly, that I will compromise precisely because
> I do care about others. You, on the other hand, would happily
> disenfranchise all mountainbikers ... so who is the selfish individual who
> doesn't care about their effect on others. Shame on you.
>
> Nope, shame on you for not acknowledging that irreconcilable
> conflicts exist on how bikers use trails as opposed to how hikers use trails.
> Hikers are unable to use trails which bikers are using.

Not true ... and I've given you many examples where trails are being shared quite amicably.

> I ask you, who is being
> selfish? We cannot share what can't be shared.

If it can't be shared why is it working fine in so many locations Ed ?

> I charge you with being a
> criminal aggressor. You and your ilk are destroying what has been a haven for
> sensitive souls seeking a haven from the the ills of civilization. Walking a
> trail is good for the soul, something you apparently know nothing
> about.

Well, it clearly hasn't done much for improving your soul.

[cycl...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 3:36:40 AM UTC-8, Blackblade wrote:
nonsense

As driving gets more expensive riding a bike is becoming more common. And college bike groups are becoming very popular as well.

The more bikes on the road the more people are driving that also ride bikes. Also the more people that are familiar with how to deal with them and things get easier.

Biking in California is actually twice as safe as walking.

As time goes on this will all get better so stop complaining and get with the program.

[EdwardDolan]

Bicycles and motor vehicles do not mix well on roads and streets. The ideal solution is to have separate trails for bikes, but single track hiking trails should never be used by bikes. I doubt that biking is safer than walking in California or anywhere else. Moreover as motor traffic gets worse, biking also gets worse. Being a Pollyanna about an issue like this will only get you killed.

 

Ed Dolan the Great

aka

Saint Edward the Great

Minnesota – Land fo 10,000 Taxes

 

> wrote in message news:3b5186cd-0207-4d8b...@googlegroups.com...