REI Elements vs. Goretex
Your Full Name
mpanies have good Goretex rain gear. I live in Ithaca NY and rain is a very common thing here so any advice would be appriciated.
Thanks,
Geoff
Jeffrey F. Miller
Check out Campmor. I've been very pleased with the three-ply pants and
parka that I bought from them. Their prices were VERY reasonable and
they deliver quickly (I got mine in a little under a week). I can't
remember exactly, but I think I paid around $90.00 for the parka and
somewhere around $80.00 for the pants.
A friend of mine bought Elements pants and said that they work fine, however
the Elements parka did not serve him very well. He said it leaked a bit
in very heavy storms. He eventually got a Gore-Tex
parka. Personally, since the Campmor stuff is only a bit more than than the
Elements, and since its 3-ply Gortex, I'd go with Campmor. I find REI to
be awfully pricy.
Good Luck!
Bob Broeking
>Hi, I am considering buying a new rain jacket and pants. I was looking at the REI Elements line of rain gear. Does anyone know how well they work compared to a Goretex jacket? Or would I just be better off Spending some more on Goretex, If so what co
>mpanies have good Goretex rain gear. I live in Ithaca NY and rain is a very common thing here so any advice would be appriciated.
I use the REI elements parka and shellm pants for general mountaineering
and find them waterproof and breathable similar to Goretex. My shell
pants have withstood many glissades when I have seen Goretex rip. I
think it is a viable low cost altyernative to Goretex... Bob
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Bob Broeking in Colorado Springs // "bbro...@nyx.cs.du.edu
" I'll get the rope..." Anderl Hinterstoisser, North Face of the
Eiger, , July 19th, 1936....
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David Oswald
>From: <netid>@cornell.edu (Your Full Name)
>Subject: REI Elements vs. Goretex
>Date: 25 Sep 1994 07:26:54 GMT
>Hi, I am considering buying a new rain jacket and pants. I was looking at the
>REI Elements line of rain gear. Does anyone know how well they work compared to
>a Goretex jacket? Or would I just be better off Spending some more on Goretex,
<snip>
I bought a parka and pants from REI (Elements line). My pants are fine, but
the first time I washed my parka (following very closely the label's
instructions) the Gore-Tex type stuff fell to pieces. The parka's useless now.
I was careful to use 'powder detergent' and drip dry the parka but the result
was disasterous. I've learned my lesson... No cheap substitutes, I'll buy
Gore-Tex next time.
Incidently, the parka was about three months old, but I can't for the life of
me find a reciept, and I apparently had purchased a model which hasn't been
produced in a while. REI's not buying my story. I'm out the money.
I'll take the blame for loosing the reciept. That's my fault. But I'll NEVER
buy their cheap alternatives again.
Dave
David Oswald -- dos...@xmission.com
Stephanie
writes:
>Hi, I am considering buying a new rain jacket and pants. I was looking
at the
Check the detailing of the coat closely. I have an REI Elements raincoat
and I absolutely loathe the top pockets! They are designed backwards.
You can't put your hands in them and its impossible to get anything in or
out of them one-handed.
Backpacker did a field test of rainjackets sometime around last October
and rated the Sierra Designs "icelight?" as one of the best. I'd try to
get a copy of the article and try on as many of the choices as you can
find.
In defense of the REI jacket, I do like the pit zips and it has gone
through the washer many times and is still in great shape.
er...@adler.tlg.net
You know, I have returned items to REI without reciepts in the past no
questions asked. What you ned to do is go in there KNOWING that you are right,
demand to speak to the store manager if neccesary, etc. Trust me if you stand
your ground on somehting they sell and service you'll win in the end.
Mike Worden
> I bought a parka and pants from REI (Elements line). My pants are fine, but
> the first time I washed my parka (following very closely the label's
> instructions) the Gore-Tex type stuff fell to pieces. The parka's useless now.
> I was careful to use 'powder detergent' and drip dry the parka but the result
> was disasterous. I've learned my lesson... No cheap substitutes, I'll buy
> Gore-Tex next time.
> Incidently, the parka was about three months old, but I can't for the life of
> me find a reciept, and I apparently had purchased a model which hasn't been
> produced in a while. REI's not buying my story. I'm out the money.
> I'll take the blame for loosing the reciept. That's my fault. But I'll NEVER
> buy their cheap alternatives again.
> Dave
Interesting. I have had much better experiences with returning stuff at REI.
Just recently I returned an REI elements parka which was a year old and
delaminating (also followed instructions), no receipt, and they cheerfully
replaced it for me. I replaced it with an Elements Parka which is doing
great so far, but the rainy season really hasn't gotten started yet. A
couple of years ago I brought in a pair of Merrel GoreTex boot which I reall
liked but weren't keeping my feet dry. Actually, I was just in to browse
but thought that I would mention my problem to one of the sales clerks
for advice. He thought for about two seconds and said "well, why don't
you pick out another pair that you like?". I pointed out that my boots
were a couple of years old and had quite a bit of use but he persisted. I
ended up with a nice pair of Raichles that I'm really fond of. Made for a
couple of really pleasant experiences.
-Mike
--
__ Mike Worden mwo...@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu
o/ \\ 522 LRDC University of Pittsburgh
<\__,\\ Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412 624-7052
"> ||
` || -Climb on!
David E. Mann
>Hi, I am considering buying a new rain jacket and pants.
>I was looking at the REI Elements line of rain gear. Does
>anyone know how well they work compared to a Goretex jacket?
It depends on what kind coating the Elements gear has.
If it is a true waterproof/nonbreathable coating, I would
avoid the stuff for general wear. My guess is that REI Elements
is really a waterproof/breathable coating like Entrant or Ultrex.
In my experience, these coating do not breath as well as GoreTex.
HOWEVER...
>Or would I just be better off Spending some more on Goretex,
FOCUS ON COMFORT, NOT PERFORMANCE.
FOCUS ON VALUE, NOT PRICE.
Comfort depends not only on performance of the fabric but
also on cut of the jacket, placement of pockets and zippers
and other such things. In my opinion, my old Patagonia Storm
Jacket (coated with Entrant) "performed" better than many
GoreTex jackets even though it didn't breath as well. It was
very comfortable.
Jackets take lots of abuse. Dollars to donuts you will have
to collect on any warranty offered. Cheaper jackets cost
more when the manufacturer refuses to stand behind the product.
For more inexpensive things, I would trust LLBean with regards
to warranty issues. For more top flight stuff, consider Patagonia,
Marmot and perhaps The North Face. The $250 I paid for my Storm
Jacket seems excessive to some but, Patagonia recently sent me
a check for the full price of the jacket since the coating wore out
prematurely. I had the jacket for over 3 years. Thats value.
(Eugene, if you're listening, I expect my new Patagonia jacket
with in the week. They have certainly earned my loyalty.)
>I live in Ithaca NY and rain is a very common thing here
>so any advice would be appriciated.
Get pit zips and a good hood!
Dave Mann
ma...@math.nps.navy.mil
er...@adler.tlg.net
Just got back from REI spoke to a supervisor there by the name of Mike Vickers,
this is at the San Carlos, Ca. store, he said he'd very much like to know which
store has done this to you, and asked that you please give him a call directly
at (415)508-2330 and he'll get you all squared away with the return should you
want to. As I've said before, they've always taken good care of me.
Robert Allen
>In article <3638nu$5...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, <ga...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>Hi, I am considering buying a new rain jacket and pants. I was looking at the REI Elements line of rain gear. Does anyone know how well they work compared to a Goretex jacket? Or would I just be better off Spending some more on Goretex, If so what co
>>mpanies have good Goretex rain gear. I live in Ithaca NY and rain is a very common thing here so any advice would be appriciated.
>
>I use the REI elements parka and shellm pants for general mountaineering
>and find them waterproof and breathable similar to Goretex. My shell
>pants have withstood many glissades when I have seen Goretex rip. I
>think it is a viable low cost altyernative to Goretex... Bob
The REI sales people told me that Elements is slightly less
breathable than goretex, but it's still breathable and
completely waterproof. Make sure the clothes you buy
are seam-sealed. My SO has a jacket of Elements and it's
worked very well.
---
Robert Allen, r...@sun.com
DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and
do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
The Constitution of the United States: R.I.P, 9/13/94
(the day Bill Clinton signed the Crime Bill)
kevin klenk
David> What I really would like to know is if 'the Elements' IS
David> more suceptible to this problem (falling apart in the wash)
David> than regular Gore-Tex? Or is there no difference in
David> durability? This I would like to know before I exchange my
David> defective parka.
REI Elements is just another tradename for Entrant. It is a
*completely* different technology than Goretex. Entrant is a sprayed
on coating (polyurethane?) while Goretex is a stretched Teflon film
which is laminated (glued) to the fabric.
Kevin
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin S. Klenk (k...@cse.nd.edu)
University of Notre Dame
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Notre Dame, IN 46556
(219) 631-8720
(219) 631-9260 FAX
--------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Helle
: produced in a while. REI's not buying my story. I'm out the money.
: I'll take the blame for loosing the reciept. That's my fault. But I'll NEVER
: buy their cheap alternatives again.
: Dave
: David Oswald -- dos...@xmission.com
Dave,
Sounds like you are getting jipped by your REI store. I've returned a
half-dozen items, some 1.5 yrs. old, never with a receipt. Depending
upon the rep, I sometimes got a frown, but never had any real
problems. REI can and does turn defective stuff back to the supplier
all the time. Even if it says REI on it, some other name-brand
company made it - REI can send it back in. I would talk to management
if I were you - that stuff is too expensive to get this line from
a rep.
Steve
Ira D. Moss
: REI Elements is just another tradename for Entrant. It is a
: *completely* different technology than Goretex. Entrant is a sprayed
: on coating (polyurethane?) while Goretex is a stretched Teflon film
: which is laminated (glued) to the fabric.
Sorry Kevin, but this is wrong. REI Elements fabric is almost exactly
the same as Gortex. Entrant is nothing close. Take a look at the material
next time you go into REI
Ira Moss REI Denver Store
Norman Yarvin
There's not much you can tell by looking at a Goretex garment, because
the Goretex is laminated between two layers of some other material; and
this other material can be almost anything. If REI Elements were the
same technology, you could not tell about it either, at least not just
by looking. Not that I believe it's the same. Gore's patent hasn't run
out yet.
--
Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
"There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know
what you're talking about." -- John von Neumann
David Oswald
been well serviced by REI.
I plan to go back and try again. I'm confident that REI doesn't intend to put
me in a bad position, and that if I just talk to someone else there I'll get
better service.
I'm sure that REI will stand behind their product for me. When this happens
I'll make sure to post my experience to the net. I have no intention of
slandering REI and then not bothering to take the time to thank them when they
do come through for me.
In the past I have always had good experiences with REI. Though I've only had
this one occasion to return anything I'm sure that my first experience was
just a fluke.
What I really would like to know is if 'the Elements' IS more suceptible to
this problem (falling apart in the wash) than regular Gore-Tex? Or is there
no difference in durability? This I would like to know before I exchange my
defective parka.
In fairness to REI Elements, the pants I bought have stood up well to a
variety of uses: Skiing, backpacking trips, sailing, etc. They haven't lived
an easy life but they have lived well.
BTW, and I know that this is a little off subject...
I remember reading somewhere several years back about the development of
Gore-Tex. Apparently the developers wanted to test out their new invention,
and so made a 100% Gore-Tex tent. It worked beautifully, until the hail came
down and beat it to pieces. That is when they went back to the drawingboard
and came up with the idea to bond it to something strong like nylon.
If anyone can remember this article let me know (it may have been in
Backpacker). If it's true (which it may not be as I'm using the cob-weby part
of my memory) it is kind of a humorous story.
Thanks,
Peter.N.Steinmetz
: Gore's patent hasn't run out yet.
Does anyone know when it will run out? I seem to recall that the
original Gore-Tex was introduced around '77 and that patents,
even with a renewal, last 14 years. Perhaps there are patents on
the improvements?
Peter Steinmetz (pe...@poincare.wbme.jhu.edu)
kevin klenk
Ira> kevin klenk (kkl...@berry.cse.nd.edu) wrote:
Ira> : REI Elements is just another tradename for Entrant.
Ira> : It is a *completely* different technology than Goretex.
Ira> : Entrant is a sprayed on coating (polyurethane?) while
Ira> : Goretex is a stretched Teflon film which is laminated
Ira> : (glued) to the fabric.
Ira> Sorry Kevin, but this is wrong. REI Elements fabric is
Ira> almost exactly the same as Gortex. Entrant is nothing close.
Ira> Take a look at the material next time you go into REI
Ira> Ira Moss REI Denver Store
I may be wrong, but the REI catalog sales representatives are also
wrong! I talked with Troy at 1-800-426-4840 (REI Sales) and he
confirmed my original posting. According to the REI representative,
Elements is *not* the same technology as Goretex. He said that
Elements is similar to Goretex in that both are waterproof/breathable
technologies.
Bill Tuthill
I've worn hers on occasion and vice versa. The Elements is
a bit crinklier. It could be our imagination, but we agree
that the Goretex seems more breathable. However, for the price,
you can't go wrong. If you've got money to burn, buy Goretex.
Adam Messinger
: >>>>> "Ira" == Ira D Moss <im...@carbon.denver.colorado.edu> writes:
: Ira> kevin klenk (kkl...@berry.cse.nd.edu) wrote:
: Ira> : REI Elements is just another tradename for Entrant.
: Ira> : It is a *completely* different technology than Goretex.
: Ira> : Entrant is a sprayed on coating (polyurethane?) while
: Ira> : Goretex is a stretched Teflon film which is laminated
: Ira> : (glued) to the fabric.
: Ira> Sorry Kevin, but this is wrong. REI Elements fabric is
: Ira> almost exactly the same as Gortex. Entrant is nothing close.
: Ira> Take a look at the material next time you go into REI
: Ira> Ira Moss REI Denver Store
: I may be wrong, but the REI catalog sales representatives are also
: wrong! I talked with Troy at 1-800-426-4840 (REI Sales) and he
: confirmed my original posting. According to the REI representative,
: Elements is *not* the same technology as Goretex. He said that
: Elements is similar to Goretex in that both are waterproof/breathable
: technologies.
The technology used, while interesting, doesn't really answer the question
at hand. Ira, would it be possible for you to get the two standard measures
WP/B fabrics, the MVTR, MDM-Dry (a measure of vapor transfer rate) and the
Uk, WEP test which is a measure of waterproofness.
One interesting G-Tex copy that I have seen lately is one from Solstice, who
claim a MVTR of 4600 g/m2/24hr and a WEP of 75 psi, this is less breathable,
but more waterproof than G-Tex, although it does fall into the acceptable
category for MVTR according to Gore. (http://io.datasys.swri.edu/Fabric.html)
Cheers!
Adam
E&C Peterson
> Elements is *not* the same technology as Goretex. He said that
> Elements is similar to Goretex in that both are waterproof/breathable
That is correct. I used to work for REI full time and specialized in
fabrics among other things. Gore-Tex is a completely different technology
than REI Elements. Gore-Tex is a membrane that has been attached to the
inside fabric where Elements is a chemically treated fabric. REI Elements
is slightly more water proof but slightly less breathable. It is nearly
impossible to tell the two products apart but just looking at them or
touching them.
Erik
lesg...@yahoo.com
REI sells great gear and takes care of their customers well.