Sport Pilot Glider Rating?
Walt Connelly
Interesting question from a Sport Pilot today. Can a Sport Pilot do a
glider add on? Would it be a Sport Glider Pilot license? I haven't
heard of such an animal, any one know the answer? Thanks.
Walt
--
Walt Connelly
Mike the Strike
Apart from the restrictions on the type of aircraft (you would need to
find a Light Sport Glider), the altitude restrictions to 2,000 ft AGL
would make soaring a challenge!
Mike
Leroy Tire
vaughn
"Mike the Strike" <Strin...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ef200690-e6bf-47fd...@o14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>Apart from the restrictions on the type of aircraft (you would need to
>find a Light Sport Glider), the altitude restrictions to 2,000 ft AGL
>would make soaring a challenge!
The biggest challenge is probably finding a soaring operation that understands
the Sport Pilot regs and is interested in using them to certify new glider
pilots. If you already have a Sport Pilot license, adding gliders takes the
appropriate training and signoffs by two instructors. Amazingly, it requires no
FAA written or flight test.
The Altitude restriction is 10,000 feet MSL. This can be an issue in some
higher parts of the country but usually not.
You must have flight and ground visibility of 3 miles. There may be days when
this requirement keeps you on the ground while others are flying.
You need to find a glider under 1,320 pounds gross, stall under 45 knots, and
Vne under 120 knots. That fits some existing training gliders.
Read Subpart J of Part 61 for the details.
Vaughn
Tony V
> Interesting question from a Sport Pilot today. Can a Sport Pilot do a
> glider add on? Would it be a Sport Glider Pilot license? I haven't
> heard of such an animal, any one know the answer? Thanks.
Here's my cut at it -
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/GBSC/student/sportpilot.htm
Tony
Brian
The biggest problem with the sport pilot glider certificate is there
is little incentive to get it over a private certifcate. As I recall
the training in nearly identical. One just has to take the Knowledge
test (I think) and find a DPE to take a practical test, instead of
with a CFI. Most soaring sites are already set up for this. This will
add a few hundred dollars and some additional study for the knowledge
test, but then one does not have the limitations of the Sport pilot
certificate.
Brian
vaughn
"Brian" <brian...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:112e74e0-9d0c-4faa...@u25g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>The biggest problem with the sport pilot glider certificate is there
>is little incentive to get it over a private certifcate. As I recall
>the training in nearly identical. One just has to take the Knowledge
>test (I think) and find a DPE to take a practical test, instead of
>with a CFI. Most soaring sites are already set up for this. This will
>add a few hundred dollars and some additional study for the knowledge
>test, but then one does not have the limitations of the Sport pilot
>certificate.
I agree with what you say. I would try to talk any new student into going for
the Private, but that wasn't the original question. The OP seemed to be asking
about a glider add-on to an existing Sport Pilot certificate. That is actually
a pretty simple thing for any glider school to do providing they have a suitable
trainer and two CFIG's.willing to sign.
Vaughn
Mike the Strike
> "Brian" <brianfc...@msn.com> wrote in message
Except that the Sport certificate is only valid for flying light sport
aircraft. I am not aware that any two-seat LSA gliders exist.
Mike
Tony V
> ...... the Sport certificate is only valid for flying light sport
> aircraft. I am not aware that any two-seat LSA gliders exist.
Schweizer 2-33, for one.
Tony
Walt Connelly
Mike the Strike;759296 Wrote:
> On Jan 3, 1:44*pm, "vaughn" vaughnsi...@gmail.invalid wrote:-
> "Brian" brianfc...@msn.com wrote in message
>
> news:112e74e0-9d0c-4faa...@u25g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> The biggest problem with the sport pilot glider certificate is there
> is little incentive to get it over a private certifcate. As I recall
> the training in nearly identical. One just has to take the Knowledge
> test (I think) and find a DPE to take a practical test, instead of
> with a CFI. Most soaring sites are already set up for this. This will
> add a few hundred dollars and some additional study for the knowledge
> test, but then one does not have the limitations of the Sport pilot
>
> I agree with what you say. *I would try to talk any new student into
> going for
> the Private, but that wasn't the original question. *The OP seemed to
> be asking
> about a glider add-on to an existing Sport Pilot certificate. *That is
> actually
> a pretty simple thing for any glider school to do providing they have a
> suitable
> trainer and two CFIG's.willing to sign.
>
>
> Except that the Sport certificate is only valid for flying light sport
> aircraft. I am not aware that any two-seat LSA gliders exist.
>
> Mike
I think most two seat gliders probably come in under the weight
restriction for LS aircraft. No one at the gliderport I fly at has ever
had anyone try to do this type of glider rating but apparently it can be
done.
Walt
--
Walt Connelly
Bruce Hoult
> Except that the Sport certificate is only valid for flying light sport
> aircraft. I am not aware that any two-seat LSA gliders exist.
The only thing stopping most of them is a too-high Vne. There are a
number of older two seat gliders with Vne until 120 knots:
Ka7: 92
ASK13: 108
Janus: 119
It's easy, and I suspect even legal, to simply make up a plate with a
lower Vne than the manufacturer originally specified. There are many
cases where a glider model's Vne has been reduced due to problems
discovered later such as flutter. Can you (or your engineer) reduce a
single glider's placarded Vne because of repairs, or simply because
you feel that it is "old"? It's no great hardship in most glider
flying to lose a few knots off the top speed.
I've definitely seen a powered aircraft operated as a LSA by replacing
the placard with one specifying a lower MTOW (which was then
ignored...).
uncl...@ix.netcom.com
You may have seen a powered aircraft operated as you describe, but not
legally if type certificated. Limits for determination
of LSA eligibility are as originally certified.
UH
T
No.. you cannot change the MTOW or Vne of an aircraft, airplane or
glider from what it was originally certified at just to make it
qualify for LSA. If you have seen this in powered aircraft, do you
have an example you would like to cite?
In any case, it is not legal, and if the pilot did so to be able to
fly under LSA rules sans medical, he may have just invalidated his
insurance, his airworthy certificate and would be subject to penalties
and possible loss of certificates from the FAA.
Reducing an "experimental" aircraft due to "re-enginnering" would
subject the aircraft to a new airworthy certification and review and a
new round of flying off phase 1 and phase 2 requirements. And if it is
an imported aircraft.. even more headaches are possible.
T
Mike the Strike
I still maintain my original assertion that no gliders have been
certified by FAA as LSA. Certainly a number could meet the
limitations, but decertification would be non-trivial. If I am wrong,
please cite specific aircraft.
Mike
Marc Ramsey
>I still maintain my original assertion that no gliders have been
>certified by FAA as LSA. Certainly a number could meet the
>limitations, but decertification would be non-trivial. If I am wrong,
>please cite specific aircraft.
Given that the FAA has a long list of type certified light aircraft that
can be flown as LSAs (various Aeroncas, Luscombes, Ercoupes, Pipers,
Taylorcrafts) one wonders why the compliant certified gliders (2-22, 2-33,
Ka7) weren't also added to this list. And, the possibility was well known
early on in the rule-making process, I know as I asked about it years ago
during an FAA session years ago at an SSA convention. What happened, and
can it be fixed? Seems like a no-brainer to me...
Marc
Alan
>I still maintain my original assertion that no gliders have been
>certified by FAA as LSA. Certainly a number could meet the
>limitations, but decertification would be non-trivial. If I am wrong,
>please cite specific aircraft.
>
>Mike
http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/slsa/ lists two gliders (actually one is
a motorglider) that they claim are S-LSA. One is the Lambada and the other
is the TST-14 (available as self launch or unpowered).
Following the links from there, one finds a note that N107SM was registered
in 2007 as a LSA glider.
Alan
Pete Brown
> At 05:39 05 January 2011, Mike the Strike wrote:
>> I still maintain my original assertion that no gliders have been
>> certified by FAA as LSA. Certainly a number could meet the
>> limitations, but decertification would be non-trivial. If I am wrong,
>> please cite specific aircraft.
>
> Given that the FAA has a long list of type certified light aircraft that
> can be flown as LSAs (various Aeroncas, Luscombes, Ercoupes, Pipers,
> Taylorcrafts) one wonders why the compliant certified gliders (2-22, 2-33,
> Ka7) weren't also added to this list.
Guys;
I think you are confusing the terms "eligible" and "certificated." For
example, a T-Craft is a standard type certificated airplane which is
light sport eligible by virtue of max take off weight, stall speed, etc
and may be flown by a pilot exercising light sport pilot privileges.
I believe (but could be wrong) that any existing certificated glider
meeting the light sport aircraft criteria may be flown by a light sport
pilot.
From the AOPA web site:
Light Sport Aircraft:
* Light sport aircraft are defined as simple, low-performance,
low-energy aircraft that are limited to—
o 1,320 pounds maximum takeoff weight for aircraft not
intended for operation on water; or
o 1,430 pounds maximum takeoff weight for aircraft intended
for operation on water.
o A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous
power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric
conditions at sea level.
o A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons,
including the pilot.
o A single, reciprocating engine.
o A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered
aircraft other than a powered glider.
o A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.
o Maximum airspeed of 120 knots.
o Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for
operation on water or a glider.
o Fixed or repositionable landing gear, or a hull, for an
aircraft intended for operation on water.
o A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed
without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45
knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most
critical center of gravity.
* Aircraft meeting the above specifications, such as a Piper J-2 or
J-3, Aeronca Champ, or early model Taylorcraft, may be flown by sport
pilots. Click here for a list of eligible standard category aircraft
that meet the definition of light sport aircraft.
--
Pete Brown
Anchorage Alaska
Going home after a long day
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1415/1325102827_f322928754_b.jpg
The fleet at Summit. Mt. McKinley is about 45nm away at 20,320 msl.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/437346531_a9cb8d2482_b.jpg
The 170B at Bold near Eklutna Glacier
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/437324742_a216d7bb75.jpg
vaughn
"Marc Ramsey" <remove_to_...@ranlog.com> wrote in message
news:4d2413f9$0$28913$bed6...@gradwell.net...
> At 05:39 05 January 2011, Mike the Strike wrote:
>>I still maintain my original assertion that no gliders have been
>>certified by FAA as LSA. Certainly a number could meet the
>>limitations, but decertification would be non-trivial. If I am wrong,
>>please cite specific aircraft.
>
> Given that the FAA has a long list of type certified light aircraft that
> can be flown as LSAs (various Aeroncas, Luscombes, Ercoupes, Pipers,
> Taylorcrafts)
Any list you may have found is for information only and not part of any
regulation. The answer is in front of you, in FAR Part 1.1
"Light-Sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered lift
that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following" ;
(the LSA limitations follow, including 120 knots Vne for gliders)
This means that any certified aircraft can be flown by a sport pilot as long at
it meets the LSA limitations and has ALWAYS met those regulations.
Vaughn
"
T
You may be correct that no gliders have been certified in the light
sport category.
But the do not have to be certified as light sport to be flown by a
light sport pilot.
They only need to be certified in the standard or experimental
category and their listed certified MTOW and Vne meet the light sport
criteria.
T