On manufacturer's websight they refer in their spec on one aircraft to:
"Fuel (STD) 34 US Gallons (205lbs)"
I was using a figure of 8.44lbs/gallon, but the above figures to
6.02lbs/gallon.
Avgas, at standard temperature, is "close enuf for gummint work" at 6
lb/gal, and mogas is so close it makes no difference. Jet-A is 6.7 or
so; most lubricating oil is around 7.
100LL is actually a little lighter than 6. Can't vouch for autofuel,
but they're all lighter than water at ~8.
John
I've seen either 5.9 or 6.0 lbs/gal used. I'm not aware that avgas or
mogas have any significant difference in density.
8.44 lbs/gal sounds more like the density of motor oil.
--
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
New York University School of Medicine
550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
>Right. I have always figured 8.4 for salt water, 8 for fresh water,
>7.5 for oil, and 6 for gasoline. That is close enough that it is
>generally used for weight and balance calculations.
OK John, I gotta know! Why do you need to know the weight of salt
water for your W&B calcs. You haven't been runnin' lobsters from
Maine down to Pinckneyville again, have you? 8-)
Patrick
---------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Flowers mailto:pat...@ibm.net
"Reply to" changed to avoid spam email.
Change "nospam" to "net" or use the mailto link above.
Even a real gallon of avgas doesn't weigh that much, we use 6lbs for a
US gallon of fuel.
Terry
Peter S. Lert <pete...@montrose.net> wrote in article
<34D6CB...@montrose.net>...
> 8.44 lb/gal sounds like water to me--if you have an engine that actually
> uses it as fuel, patent that sucker right away!
>
> Avgas, at standard temperature, is "close enuf for gummint work" at 6
Craig
A Jolliffe <joll...@mpinet.net> wrote in article
<01bd310c$cf4954a0$b3d0...@jolliffe.mpinet.net>...
Canadian gas weighs slightly more than US gas because the temperature here
is lower! Seriously though, this is a small effect (about .14 lb per US gal
per 20 degress C). I think the poster below was alluding to the fact that
when things were sold by "the gallon" up here, we used the Imperial gallon
which is 1.2 US gallons. Of course, for several years now, gas is sold in
litres so we have a different conversion to worry about.
>A Jolliffe <joll...@mpinet.net> wrote in article
><01bd310c$cf4954a0$b3d0...@jolliffe.mpinet.net>...
>IF u go to Canada look out for that extra 1*5 lbs there gas is figured at
>7.5lbs per gal ,can change your all up weight quit a bit on a cross
>country say to Oshgosh with all your extra gear.for eg.on a hot day that
>end of the runway comes up fast when you cant lift off.
>
>
--
Fred G. Black, P. Eng. To reply to this post, remove the SPAM repellant
PP-ASEL,Night,Glider from the above address. Sorry for the inconvenience.
My opinions only
>IF u go to Canada look out for that extra 1*5 lbs there gas is figured at
>7.5lbs per gal ,can change your all up weight quit a bit on a cross
>country say to Oshgosh with all your extra gear.for eg.on a hot day that
>end of the runway comes up fast when you cant lift off.
>
>Peter S. Lert <pete...@montrose.net> wrote in article
><34D6CB...@montrose.net>...
>> 8.44 lb/gal sounds like water to me--if you have an engine that actually
>> uses it as fuel, patent that sucker right away!
>>
>> Avgas, at standard temperature, is "close enuf for gummint work" at 6
>> lb/gal, and mogas is so close it makes no difference. Jet-A is 6.7 or
>> so; most lubricating oil is around 7.
>>
Yup - gas is heavier here in the great white north. Actually, it's our
gallon that's bigger, but seeing as how you can't buy gallons up here
anymore (don't make 'em any more ;}) that's not a problem. Outr litres
are about as much smaller than your quarts as your gallons were
smaller than ours.
Point being, our gas, in your gallons, weighs the same.
Snyder Enterprises
Appropriate Technology for the Information Age
Waterloo Ontario.
To reply please drop the r, and send to :
cls...@ibm.net
Too many misdirected replies plugging my mail box!!!
I remember once observing, in a border-crossing duty free shop, all the
various sizes I could purchase scotch in. The collection of bottles went
something like this:
US Fifth
750 ml
US Quart (equal to an Imperial Fifth, I think :-))
Liter (or is that Litre?)
Imperial Quart
1.5 Liters
As far as I'm aware, the Canadian Government does not have the ability to
change the laws of physics. A gallon of gas does not change density just
because the money used to purchase it is a different color. I know
various state legislatures here in the US have attempted to do equally
stupid things such as change the value of PI, but they failed as well.
Maybe 7.5 lbs per Imperial Gallon?
Maybe I'm confused, but isn't a litre larger than a US quart and smaller
than an IMP quart?
The bottom line is that we buy litres and do W&B in US gallons...seems
like a remember a 767 with a problem related to this.
Terry
> On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:04:48 -0600, "John R. Johnson" <jo...@siu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >Right. I have always figured 8.4 for salt water, 8 for fresh water,
> >7.5 for oil, and 6 for gasoline. That is close enough that it is
> >generally used for weight and balance calculations.
>
> OK John, I gotta know! Why do you need to know the weight of salt
> water for your W&B calcs. You haven't been runnin' lobsters from
> Maine down to Pinckneyville again, have you? 8-)
>
No, it was for my Gulf of Mexico fresh shrimp run in the flying boat.
You buy them right off the boat while they are still out fishing and
they sell them even cheaper than you can get them on the dock. Do not
misconstrue this and get the idea that I am cheap. I am not cheap.
However, I am nortoriously FRUGAL.
John
>No, it was for my Gulf of Mexico fresh shrimp run in the flying boat.
>You buy them right off the boat while they are still out fishing and
>they sell them even cheaper than you can get them on the dock. Do not
>misconstrue this and get the idea that I am cheap. I am not cheap.
>However, I am nortoriously FRUGAL.
Come'on fess up John.......
Anybody who has "bought" shrimp off of a Gulf shrimper at sea knows
the coin of the realm is beer, (by the case). You didn't use CHEAP
beer did you?
BTW ... The REAL bargin in shrimp is from the boats operated out of
Mexican ports when they are holed up in American ports waiting out a
storm at sea. They can't put ashore. For two cases I'll tell you
which ports!
Also.....Good beer weighs in at 18.5/lbs per rack.
1 Quart of Liquid = 0.9463 Litres
1 US Gallon = 3.785 Litres
-Peter
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
Cgarr wrote in message <01bd3111$e0fe2900$2c0be0d0@default>...
>why do Canada gas weigh more
Has to do with the exchange rate :))
Actually, the fueling "anomoly" occured due to the famous "chain of
events", summarized below:
1. Air Canada 767 fuel qty indicator N/S
2. Flight Manual allows fuel tank "dip" to physically measure gas.
3. AC techs "dipped" tank and gave results to Captain.
4. Captain used chart to convert "dip" level to "lbs" Jet-A
5. Unfortunaetely "dip" was in centimetres and chart in inches.
6. Captain incorectly surmized he had 2.54 times (2.54 cm per inch) more
fuel than he did
7. 767 ran out of gas just past Toronto-Vancouver "halfway"point.
8. Captain remembered old RCAF base at Gimli (just North of Winnipeg) and
glided towards it.
9. Landed on runway converted to drag-strip (Scout jamboree on the other)
10. Nosewheel taken out by central guard-rail of drag-strip.
All in all, a series of events that could have had much worse results if
not for some pretty slick hands and feet flying. Unfortunately, unlike in
Top Gun, no amount of tapping the fuel guage will give you more gas in the
air :-)
D. Townsend
OH-58A, CH-47C, UH-1N driver
-j-
Cgarr wrote:
>
> why do Canada gas weigh more? My engine would not even run on that gas
> then? The float on my Carb is set to run on 6# fuel which it should be.
> If I ran 7.5# fuel my carb float would really FLOAT and not let much fuel
> in the bowl, or are you guys all running IO engines??
>
> Craig
>
> A Jolliffe <joll...@mpinet.net> wrote in article
> <01bd310c$cf4954a0$b3d0...@jolliffe.mpinet.net>...
> IF u go to Canada look out for that extra 1*5 lbs there gas is figured at
>US Fifth
>750 ml
>US Quart (equal to an Imperial Fifth, I think :-))
>Liter (or is that Litre?)
>Imperial Quart
>1.5 Liters
For those who haven't majored in fluid measurements...
The US Fifth is 1/5 US gallon (25.6 fl. oz.) which is (very close) to 750
ml. This used to be the "standard" size for booze in Canada. Along with a
"mickie" which was half that size, and shaped in a curve so that it would
fit in you back pocket. :-)
I have never seen/heard of an "Imperial Fifth."
An Imperial Quart is 40 (Imperial) fluid ounces, which are slightly smaller
than US fluid ounces. Just enough smaller that the quart size ratio ends up
being 6:5 instead of the 5:4 that you would get if the ounces were the same
size. Even EXXON srewed this one up in a tourist promotion about 20 years
ago!! (They said the Canadian gallon was 5/4 the US gallon.)
And it's a pity that the duty free shops don't stock the 3 liter jugs of
(really cheap) red/white california wine for us anti-connoiseurs. :-)
>OK, Here it is
>
>1 Quart of Liquid = 0.9463 Litres
>1 US Gallon = 3.785 Litres
And...
1 Imperial Quart (British and Candian-before-metrification) = 1.13650 Liters
1 Imperial Gallon = 4.54596 Liters
An Imperial:US ratio of 1.20105
If a US gallon of gas weighs 6.0 lb, then an Imperial gallon weighs 7.2 lb.
:-)
Craig J.
megarookie
>Clare Snyder wrote:
>>
>> Yup - gas is heavier here in the great white north. Actually, it's our
>> gallon that's bigger, but seeing as how you can't buy gallons up here
>> anymore (don't make 'em any more ;}) that's not a problem. Outr litres
>> are about as much smaller than your quarts as your gallons were
>> smaller than ours.
>>
>> Point being, our gas, in your gallons, weighs the same.
>
>Maybe I'm confused, but isn't a litre larger than a US quart and smaller
>than an IMP quart?
>
>The bottom line is that we buy litres and do W&B in US gallons...seems
>like a remember a 767 with a problem related to this.
>
>Terry
You got me on that litre/us quart thing -Litre is about half way
between quarts.
Does Gimli Glider ring a bell?
> Has to do with the exchange rate :))
Actually, the value of our dollar goes up and down with Clinton's zipper.
Michael.
Grumman Cheetah C-GRCC
-------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Michael Gillespie | Voice/Fax 204.943.9000
President, Telecommunities Canada Inc. | mich...@tc.ca
President, The Gray Research Group | mich...@gray.mb.ca
Flying Colors Precision Flight Team | mich...@compuserve.com
---- No good deed will go unpunished. ----- Standard Disclaimers Apply ---
> On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Dennis Monroe wrote:
>
> > Has to do with the exchange rate :))
>
> Actually, the value of our dollar goes up and down with Clinton's zipper.
>
> Michael.
> Grumman Cheetah C-GRCC
>
Of course, it wouldn't if it were not for a bunch of misguided republicans
with a vendetta to prove that a democratic president is just as crooked as
a republican one. The resulting clamor and mud slinging makes the entire
US look like a bunch of idiots, with obvious results in our foreigh policy
and internation economic arena. If Starr and his supporters would all go
quietly away, we wouldn't have those problems.
John
I didn't say a thing about what I PAID with. I was going to keep THAT
a secret. Don't want too many guys hitting them on the boats, it will
make it harder to drive a suitable bargain! :-)
John
Sorry Chris but is definitely was a 767.
|> Pretty close to how I remember reading the events went -- except the "Gimli
|> Glider" was almost 20 years ago, so it definitely was not a 767. My guess
|> is a 727 or 737.
Guess again. It was July, 1983, and was a B-767.
From:
http://www.primenet.com/~kebab/
07/23/1983
LOCATION: Gimli, Manatoba, Canada
CARRIER: Air Canada FLIGHT: 143
AIRCRAFT: Boeing B-767 REGISTRY:
ABOARD: 69 FATAL: 0 GROUND:
DETAILS: Aircraft ran out of fuel, glided and landed safely at
former air force base used as airport. The crew miscalculated the
quantity of fuel on board calculating in pounds instead of kilograms.
This was first model of aircraft of Air Canada to use kilograms
From:
http://www.summit.net/home/nicolayj/rochlin7.htm
A similar performance with a better outcome was that of Captain Bob
Pearson when Air Canada 767 ran out of fuel over Red Lake, Ontario,
because of an error in calculating fuel load on the ground. Fortunately
for all, Captain Pearson was not only an experienced pilot, but an
experienced military glider pilot. He was able to remember the runway
orientation at an auxiliary airport in Gimli well enough to bring his
streamlined, 132-ton "glider" in for a successful dead-stick landing.18
The investigating team noted that it was amazing he was able not only to
fly his sophisticated airliner without power, but to bring it to a safe
landing.
--
Marc J. Zeitlin Email: ma...@an.hp.com
Yeah, then we'd just have the one biggest one: Slick Willie
himself! :)
Here in sunny Oz, I get fuel delivered in litres into gauges marked in US
gallons with a requirement to work out my AUW in kilos. I am not at all
surprised that 767's have troubles!
Peter Huizinga wrote in message <34d8c651....@client.news.psi.ca>...
>OK, Here it is
>
>1 Quart of Liquid = 0.9463 Litres
>1 US Gallon = 3.785 Litres
>
The Gimili glider incident occurred on July 23, 1983 and involved an
Air Canada 767.
No question that can generate this much good humor can be labeled "moronic."
Keep up the questions -- haven't had as much fun on this N.G. for a long
time.
Just as long as we don't degenerate into "firkins" "gills" "drams" or
"minims." But, I have my (ancient) copy of the Handbook of Physics and
Chemistry handy, just in case!
>On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Dennis Monroe wrote:
>
>> Has to do with the exchange rate :))
>
>Actually, the value of our dollar goes up and down with Clinton's zipper.
Ah, but is it a direct, or an inverse relationship?
Right. The gentleman chosen by the american people after Sneaky Bush,
Senile Ronny, and Tricky Dicky. Maybe someday we will have a government
again. Probably not in MY lifetime, but someday, maybe.
John
>On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Dennis McGuire wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yeah, then we'd just have the one biggest one: Slick Willie
>> himself! :)
>>
>
>Right. The gentleman chosen by the american people
That's the truly scary part. We get the government we deserve.
>after Sneaky Bush,
>Senile Ronny, and Tricky Dicky. Maybe someday we will have a government
>again. Probably not in MY lifetime, but someday, maybe.
Two things strike me about this.
Firstly, when "sneaky bush", and "senile ronny" got themselves or
their boys called before independent councils, it was generally for
pursuing an agenda of foreign policy they thought best for the U.S.
Their opponents in Congress disagreed, and cast their disagreement in
laws which may or may not have been constitutional. When Clinton or
his boys get called before independent councils, it's for cronyism,
bribery, and abuses of power that lead to personal gain; in the latest
instance personal gain of a fairly modest sort, quick sexual
gratification. There's a marked difference of focus here. I think I
prefer misconduct in the name of the country's best interest over
misconduct over personal gain or gratification. The later is
indicative of a small sort of man.
Secondly, I wonder how a man who seems to go after interns, Arkansas
state clerks, and other assorted two-bit bimbos, ended up married to a
high-powered lawyer like Hillary Rodham.
--
David Munday - mund...@muohio.noise.edu
My email address is not noisy.
Webpage: http://www.nku.edu/~munday
PP-ASEL - Tandem Flybaby Builder - EAA-284 (Waynesville, OH)
When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President;
I'm beginning to believe it -- Clarence Darrow
What, they were all out of gallons were they?
-j-
Mr. newbie
John Stephens <step...@no-fixed-abode.com> wrote in article
<34db6feb...@newsreader.digex.net>...
>Mr. newbie
does a gallon of fuel weigh less at altitude ?.
I'm sure that the gravitational effect of the earth is in proportion to the
distance fron the surface. ]
What would the difference be on a full fuel load between sl and 10,000 ft fr
instance.
ANd by the way how many firkins per furlong can you expect from a bell 407.
( at max gross and fast cruise on a 30 deg day )
I'm sure we haven't completely exhausted this thread yet.
ttyl
Neil
>why do Canada gas weigh more? My engine would not even run on that gas
>then? The float on my Carb is set to run on 6# fuel which it should be.
>If I ran 7.5# fuel my carb float would really FLOAT and not let much fuel
>in the bowl, or are you guys all running IO engines??
>
>Craig
=======>
Tong-in-cheek, right?
ô¿ô - Keith - 182L/STOL N3431R - Chino, California
N33° 58' 46" W117° 38' 41"
>Avgas or Auto gas, if they weigh differently?
>
>On manufacturer's websight they refer in their spec on one aircraft to:
>
>"Fuel (STD) 34 US Gallons (205lbs)"
>
>I was using a figure of 8.44lbs/gallon, but the above figures to
>6.02lbs/gallon.
>
========>
Keith said:
Know what you mean.
A single U.S. gallon is figured at 6 lbs per. That's U.S. gallons now.
If you divide the figures (205/34) I get 6.029+).
Now the Imperial gallon that used to be used in Canada is different.
They, however, use liters now at 3.785 l per U.S. gallon.
ôżô - Keith - 182L/STOL N3431R - Chino, California
:>Avgas or Auto gas, if they weigh differently?
:>
:>On manufacturer's websight they refer in their spec on one aircraft to:
:>
:>"Fuel (STD) 34 US Gallons (205lbs)"
:>
:>I was using a figure of 8.44lbs/gallon, but the above figures to
:>6.02lbs/gallon.
:>
: ========>
: Keith said:
: Know what you mean.
: A single U.S. gallon is figured at 6 lbs per. That's U.S. gallons now.
: If you divide the figures (205/34) I get 6.029+).
: Now the Imperial gallon that used to be used in Canada is different.
: They, however, use liters now at 3.785 l per U.S. gallon.
: ô¿ô - Keith - 182L/STOL N3431R - Chino, California
Jerry LeCroy