Horten PUL-10 Built in Italy
Rob Arndt
LIBERATOR
> http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6734/pul1013wa1.jpg
>
> Rob
Looks a little cumbersome in that cockpit. They don't look real happy
to be having their picture taken.
Rob
Here is the previous Horten PUL-9 single seater:
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/attachments/design-structures-cutting-edge-technology/2956d1233356182-horten-pul-10-new_pul-9-3.jpg
And H3000 design:
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/H_3000/H3000_v.Seite_u.jpg
TEST MODEL UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/H_3000/IMG_1388.jpg
http://www.nurflugel.com/IMG_1419.jpg
Rob
David E. Powell
> On Aug 27, 6:33 pm, LIBERATOR <nogeek...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 27, 6:46 pm, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6734/pul1013wa1.jpg
>
> > > Rob
>
> > Looks a little cumbersome in that cockpit. They don't look real happy
> > to be having their picture taken.
>
>
> And H3000 design:http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/H_3000/H3000_v.S...
>
> TEST MODEL UNDER CONSTRUCTION:http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/H_3000/IMG_1388.jpghttp://www.nurflugel.com/IMG_1419.jpg
>
> Rob
So this is a kit plane kit?
Rob
wrote:
> On Aug 28, 12:02�am, Rob <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 27, 6:33 pm, LIBERATOR <nogeek...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 27, 6:46 pm, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6734/pul1013wa1.jpg
>
> > > > Rob
>
> > > Looks a little cumbersome in that cockpit. They don't look real happy
> > > to be having their picture taken.
>
> > Here is the previous Horten PUL-9 single seater:http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/attachments/design-structure...
>
> > And H3000 design:http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/H_3000/H3000_v.S...
>
>
> > Rob
>
> So this is a kit plane kit?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
PUL of Italy is part of Horten Aircraft of Germany which was formed
(or re-formed with Horten's permission and initial design approval) in
the late '80s/early '90s for both kit planes and if successful, a
series of Light Aircraft factory-built in limited or full production
depending on the market.
What is great is that other a/c manufacturers of composite UAVs are
interested in joining Horten Aircraft of Germany and making some UAVs
and that could lead to a Horten UCAV :)
Would be great to get off the Ho-IX restoration bandwagon and see a
live Horten UCAV with Brimstones and a BK-27 cannon!!!
You can read about Horten, PUL, and Horten Aircraft of Germany at
www.nurflugel.com
Rob
Rob
>
> - Show quoted text -
Some History with the Hortens and Horten of Germany:
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/H_3000/History/body_history.html
Rob
David E. Powell
Thank you for the links... and yes, a UAV Horten could finally mean an
armed Horten.
I like the kit plane thing. Maybe a Europe based company similar to
Rutan could come out of the joining efforts you speak of.
Rob
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't understand why EADS doesn't get involved. They could take just
about ANY Nazi Horten design and convert it over for military use,
especially the IVs-VIIs.
Now that would be a sight in the skies.
Would certainly make the Predators and Reapors look like R/C toys by
comparison.
I think Grob could also modify them for high-altitude recon or as the
first true loitering UCAD (Unmanned Combat Aerial Dominator) which
directs other UCAVs as well as manned a/c for combat operations.
... just thinking out loud...
Rob
vaughn
"Rob" <teut...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7e5c2d57-c3fe-41b9...@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>They could take just about ANY Nazi Horten design and convert it over for
>military use,
>especially the IVs-VIIs.
They could bring back battleships too, but for lots of good reasons it is
unlikely to happen. They are unlikely to ignore a half century of aircraft
technology in favor of an old design.
Vaughn
Rob
wrote:
> "Rob" <teuton...@aol.com> wrote in message
Reagan DID bring the battleships back for a while and they were used
up to ODS IIRC :)
And Vaughn that is why over Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Pakistani
border that the main USAF presence there bombing targets are little
prop a/c like the Predator and Reaper. We re-armed Iraq's AF with prop
COIN a/c too and the future are UCAVs- little more than jet Lippisch
deltas.
Rob
p.s. Had the BBs been active during the Israeli-Hezbollah 2006 rocket
war and the US got involved, Lebanon and Hezbollah would have been
pulverized with salvos from the big 16" guns to which Hezbollah would
have had no response :)
Rob
Just to rub in it Vaughn, airships are making a military come-back as
well due to their loiter ability and spy capabilities (kinda reminds
you of the Hindenburg mapping out British radar installations, doesn't
it?).
Rob
vaughn
On Aug 29, 4:53?am, "vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESS...@gmail.FAKE.com>
wrote:
>Just to rub in it Vaughn,
Just to rub "what" in? You haven't made a point yet.
Vaughn
vaughn
>Reagan DID bring the battleships back for a while and they were used
>up to ODS IIRC :)
Look around at the world's navies. How many battleships do you see?
>And Vaughn that is why over Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Pakistani
>border that the main USAF presence there bombing targets are little
>prop a/c like the Predator and Reaper. We re-armed Iraq's AF with prop
>COIN a/c too and the future are UCAVs- little more than jet Lippisch
>deltas.
Huh? You wrote "They could take just about ANY Nazi Horten design and
convert it over for military use, especially the IVs-VIIs.". How many of
your examples above are dead WW-II designs?
Vaughn
Bill Shatzer
-snip-
> Just to rub in it Vaughn, airships are making a military come-back as
> well due to their loiter ability and spy capabilities (kinda reminds
> you of the Hindenburg mapping out British radar installations, doesn't
> it?).
Certainly you meant the Graf Zeppelin II and not the Hindenburg?
Hindenburg was lost before Chain Home became operational. And, while LZ
II's radar 'spoofing' missions are well documented, I can find no
reference to similar activities by the Hindenburg.
Bill Shatzer
> Hindenburg was lost before Chain Home became operational. And, while LZ
> II's radar 'spoofing' missions are well documented, I can find no
> reference to similar activities by the Hindenburg.
Should be "LZ-130's radar 'spoofing' missions."
I combined half of the name (Graf Zeppelin II) with half of the
airship's designation code (LZ-130).
My bad.
frank
wrote:
> "Rob" <teuton...@aol.com> wrote in message
Shhhh. Don't tell him the Germans didn't know what the British RADAR
systems were for. They had I think one attack against them then
decided the RAF needed more target practice so kept sending wave after
wave over Britain to get shot down. Eventually Herr Reichsmarchall
changed his name to Meyer and the rest is history....
frank
BBs were finally retired as they weren't worth the cost to keep them
afloat. Probably if there wasn't a fruit loop SecNav wouldn't have
been brought out of mothballs. As it was, he nearly bankrupted the
Navy due to his inability to figure out costs and how outyears have an
effect on the budget. He was eventually reined in. Still shows up in
the news.
If the US ever decides to get involved with Hezbollah, and that would
be stupid, you can guarantee that would end the public parades of all
the terrorist wannabees with their green headbands. First one would be
a 'target rich' environment as we used to say.
Dan
Aren't once suggested the Israelis use Nazi rail guns to shell the
Palestinians.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Rob
Yes, my bad too- it was LZ-130 (Graf Zeppelin II) that did the radar
spying:
The LZ-130 was the last of the great Zeppelins to be built.
Following the Hindenburg disaster, and with the impending war, the
golden era of the passenger airship drew to a close.
Outwardly, the LZ-130 didn't differ much from her ill-fated sister,
the Hindenburg. The most obvious difference was the orientation of
the propeller blades. Up to this point, most large airships has
pusher type propellers (facing backwards), but the Graf Zeppelin II
was fitted with new forward facing engines. This would have made the
Hindenburg and the Graf Zeppelin II easily distinguishable, but the
two would never be able to share the sky. While the LZ-130 was still
in the middle of construction, news reached the Zeppelin Company of
the Hindenburg's fiery death. As the LZ-130 was nearing completion, a
detailed secret study of the Hindenburg crash revealed that the dope
used to coat the surface of the airships was the probable cause of the
Hindenburg disaster. Dope is an oil based sealer mixed with aluminum
dust to create a waterproof barrier for the ship. It also is what gave
the airships and so many light airplanes on the day their silver metal
look. Tests revealed that the dope used on the Hindenburg actually
had a lower flash point than the hydrogen in the ship. This was earth
shattering news to the Zeppelin Company at the time and was quickly
locked away and forgotten. After all, every one knew that hydrogen
was explosive, but the public relations nightmare that would develop
if people knew that the whole ship could catch fire, was nothing that
Germany or the Zeppelin Company wanted to deal with.
In the end, the Zeppelin company and the German government blamed the
hydrogen gas, which had caused so many other crashes during the
beginning of the time of the airships. So a renewed effort was made
to appeal to the American government to release the much needed
helium. In 1937, a new session of congress amended the Helium
Control act, and allocated 17, 900, 000 cubic feet of the gas to the
Zeppelin Company. The designs for the Graf Zeppelin II were altered
to allow for use of helium, but in March 1938, Germany invaded
Austria, and the gas was never delivered. The airship was launched
with hydrogen, but the only flights undertaken by the ship were
propaganda flights around Germany, and a clandestine voyage up the
British coast to spy on the new radar defenses being developed. At
the outbreak of the war, both the Graf Zeppelin, and the Graf Zeppelin
II were scrapped for material to build airplanes. And thus ended the
age of the giant airships.
Specifications:
Powerplant: 4 Daimler-Benz 16 cylinder, water-cooled engines (with
tractor pull propeller mounts) 900-1,200 h.p. each
Length: 803 feet 9.5 inches
Diameter: 135 ft, 2 in
Volume: 7, 087, 720 cu feet
Crew: 45
Passengers: 40
Max Speed: 80 mph
Rob
Rob
Only the Germans DID know what they were as they were developing
similar radar systems and had them operational by IIRC early 1940,
Danish spy Thomas Sneum took photos of a Freya installation on the
Baltic alnd was almost killed to get that information to the British.
As for the rest of your idiotic commentary it took a combined effort
of several nations- the weakest among them Britain- to defeat Nazi
Germany over 6 years at a cost of over 60 million lives.
And the US and Britain look foolish to defend Poland and fight Germany
just to wage the Cold War for 45 years over E Europe and Communist
expansionism- smoething the Allies could have arranged for the Nazis
to do by themselves all along ;)
As for Goering- who cares what that fat, gluttonous morphine-addict
art-lover became... he lost all respect from the beginning of WW2
anyway in his powder-blue custom uniform and his bizarre luxury
lifestyle.
Rob
Rob
>
> - Show quoted text -
There was nothing wrong in bringing the Iowas back and they performed
well. As for the next generation of fire support vessels for coastal
bombardments and back=up for USMC amphibious assaults no such
replacements have ever become available. The BBs still could be an
asset.
As part of Navy Secretary John F. Lehman's effort to build a 600-ship
Navy in the 1980s, and in response to the commissioning of Kirov by
the Soviet Union, the United States recommissioned all four Iowa class
battleships. On several occasions, battleships were support ships in
carrier battle groups, or led their own battleship battle group. These
were modernized to carry Tomahawk missiles, with New Jersey seeing
action bombarding Lebanon in 1983 and 1984, while Missouri and
Wisconsin fired their 16 inch (406 mm) guns at land targets and
launched missiles during Operation Desert Storm in 1991. Wisconsin
served as the TLAM strike commander for the Persian Gulf, directing
the sequence of launches that marked the opening of Desert Storm,
firing a total of 24 TLAMs during the first two days of the campaign.
The primary threat to the battleships were Iraqi shore based surface-
to-surface missiles; Missouri was targeted by two Iraqi Silkworm
missiles, with one missing and another being intercepted by the
British destroyer HMS Gloucester.[61]
All four Iowas were decommissioned in the early 1990s, making them the
last battleships to see active service. USS Iowa and USS Wisconsin
were, until fiscal year 2006, maintained to a standard where they
could be rapidly returned to service as fire support vessels, pending
the development of a superior fire support vessel.[62] The U.S. Marine
Corps believes that the current naval surface fire support gun and
missile programs will not be able to provide adequate fire support for
an amphibious assault or onshore operations.[63][64]
~ Wiki
Rob
p.s. Remember the "Missile Ship" that was to replace or at least
augment the carrier fleets? Never built...
Dan
<snip>
>
> As for the rest of your idiotic commentary it took a combined effort
> of several nations- the weakest among them Britain- to defeat Nazi
> Germany over 6 years at a cost of over 60 million lives.
>
What never ceases to amaze normal people is that you are proud of that.