German Female Pilot Melitta von Stauffenberg
Rob Arndt
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Melitta Gräfin Schenk von Stauffenberg. Countess Stauffenberg had
earned a degree in aeronautical engineering and was initially employed
by the German Institute for Aviation Testing (Deutsche Versuchsanstalt
für Luftfahrt.) While working as an engineer she earned her pilot's
license. She was instrumental in developing an auto-pilot for German
flying boats, particularly for long-distance flying on these
exceptionally awkward aircraft. She became the only woman in Germany
to obtain pilot licences for all classes of aircraft, powered and
unpowered. During the war she was conscripted to the Luftwaffe, where
she was responsible for improving the bomb site for the Ju 87
("Stuka") and Ju 88 dive bombers. To perform her duties she
personally made more than 2,500 test dives from 4,000 to 1,000
meters. She sometimes flew as many as 15 test flights in one day, an
extremely demanding physical achievement, which to this day has never
been equalled. She was shot down and killed by an American fighter in
the closing days of the war. No ideological bigotry should deny
Countess Stauffenberg recognition as an outstanding pilot; both of her
brothers-in-law gave their lives in the coup attempt against Hitler on
July 20, 1944; one of them, Claus, laid the bomb in Hitler's
headquarters.
Rob
Gordon
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PbKWXbILT7c/R69Ghh1R7ZI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/sAwNU-R...http://bp1.blogger.com/_PbKWXbILT7c/R69Ghx1R7aI/AAAAAAAAARE/s2w6I-Wz_...http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PbKWXbILT7c/R69GiB1R7bI/AAAAAAAAARM/tvxw4Bn...http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PbKWXbILT7c/R69Gih1R7cI/AAAAAAAAARU/Zzz_rhR...http://bp2.blogger.com/_PbKWXbILT7c/R69GjB1R7dI/AAAAAAAAARc/2KpWYJrIq...
>
> Melitta Gräfin Schenk von Stauffenberg. Countess Stauffenberg had
> earned a degree in aeronautical engineering and was initially employed
> by the German Institute for Aviation Testing (Deutsche Versuchsanstalt
> für Luftfahrt.) While working as an engineer she earned her pilot's
> license. She was instrumental in developing an auto-pilot for German
> flying boats, particularly for long-distance flying on these
> exceptionally awkward aircraft. She became the only woman in Germany
> to obtain pilot licences for all classes of aircraft, powered and
> unpowered. During the war she was conscripted to the Luftwaffe, where
> she was responsible for improving the bomb site for the Ju 87
> ("Stuka") and Ju 88 dive bombers. To perform her duties she
> personally made more than 2,500 test dives from 4,000 to 1,000
> meters. She sometimes flew as many as 15 test flights in one day, an
> extremely demanding physical achievement, which to this day has never
> been equalled. She was shot down and killed by an American fighter in
> the closing days of the war. No ideological bigotry should deny
> Countess Stauffenberg recognition as an outstanding pilot; both of her
> brothers-in-law gave their lives in the coup attempt against Hitler on
> July 20, 1944; one of them, Claus, laid the bomb in Hitler's
> headquarters.
The proper term, I believe in the context of the day, was that she was
a "Good German", like Claus and my
personal hero, von Wittgenstein (who made plans to take a pistol to
his award ceremony in order to kill
Hitler - unfortunately, he was shot down and killed by a Mosquito
nightfighter several days before his date
with destiny).
Rob Arndt
> On Sep 30, 11:08�pm, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Melitta Gr�fin Schenk von Stauffenberg. Countess Stauffenberg had
> > earned a degree in aeronautical engineering and was initially employed
> > by the German Institute for Aviation Testing (Deutsche Versuchsanstalt
> > license. �She was instrumental in developing an auto-pilot for German
> > flying boats, particularly for long-distance flying on these
> > exceptionally awkward aircraft. �She became the only woman in Germany
> > to obtain pilot licences for all classes of aircraft, powered and
> > unpowered. �During the war she was conscripted to the Luftwaffe, where
> > she was responsible for improving the bomb site for the Ju 87
> > ("Stuka") and Ju 88 dive bombers. �To perform her duties she
> > personally made more than 2,500 test dives from 4,000 to 1,000
> > meters. �She sometimes flew as many as 15 test flights in one day, an
> > extremely demanding physical achievement, which to this day has never
> > been equalled. �She was shot down and killed by an American fighter in
> > the closing days of the war. �No ideological bigotry should deny
> > Countess Stauffenberg recognition as an outstanding pilot; both of her
> > brothers-in-law gave their lives in the coup attempt against Hitler on
> > July 20, 1944; one of them, Claus, laid the bomb in Hitler's
> > headquarters.
>
> The proper term, I believe in the context of the day, was that she was
> a "Good German", like Claus and my
> personal hero, von Wittgenstein (who made plans to take a pistol to
> his award ceremony in order to kill
> Hitler - unfortunately, he was shot down and killed by a Mosquito
> nightfighter several days before his date
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gordon,
Interesting moral dilemma here with von Stauffenberg. You do know that
she was loyal to Germany and to that end did everything for the
Luftwaffe to achieve victory... and yet she was not firmly anti-Nazi,
just not for the NSDAP nor Hitler. The fact that her brothers- in- law
tried to kill Hitler and that she once proposed flying them to safety
(never happened), does not translate into what you describe as a "Good
German". She was more like Hanna Reitsch in dedication to her duties
and her loyalty to the Luftwaffe was unswavering until the very end.
Had she the opportunity to help the Luftwaffe gain superiority and
they would have won the war, Melitta would have been a Nazi test-pilot
heroine just as Hanna Reitsch was perceived during the war.
Pity she had to die delivering a small Bu-181.
But even though she died, her diary openly states that she was morally
conflicted by her devotion to Germany and the Luftwaffe and despising
the Nazi Party.
So I find your praise of Melitta in conflict with your hatred of
Reitsch. Both were loyal to Germany and the Luftwaffe and dedicated to
their duties. But b/c Hanna was an ardent Nazi and carried favor with
Hitler and the Luftwaffe Generals, you try to seperate them with the
in- law plot against Hitler, which is weak as she was not a prominent
figure, just a family associate and not even a conspirator.
Doesn't seem right. Melitta did nothing anti-Hitler nor spoke anything
anti-Hitler during all the war years even after her family was put in
concentrastion camps, their children taken away, and her in-laws
executed. She did not even object to her von Stauffenberg surname
being cut off. She continued to work for the Luftwaffe loyally until
her death. She could have refused or took a stand against Hitler. She
never did.
Rob
p.s. BTW, I did not introduce this topic to connect anything to
Hitler. Just to acknowledge her aviation skills that go largely
unnoticed. For me she ranks third after Hanna Reitsch and Elly
Beinhorn.
Gordon
their struggle to serve their nation, defending it vigorously and
giving their lives in its defense. I would expect nothing less from
an American family, or Japanese, or British, or Australian, or any
other nation. In a totalitarian regime, standing up and saying, "I
love my country, but my government is wrong" will likely result in you
getting shot, and instead of starting a revolution, the effect will be
to cool any additional dissent. The family, and this woman in
particular, fought the Nazis by word and deed. Her brother went the
extra yard and actually tried to kill Hitler - giving his life on
freedom's alter. By continuing to serve Germany AND resisting the
Hitlerites, his sister did her part in the same struggle to stop the
national nightmare.
Hanna Reitsch was a Nazi first, pilot second. I don't mean
chronologically, I mean in her beliefs and actions. She idolized the
political movement that destroyed her country and attempted to wipe
out freedom across Europe.
I don't see how the two could ever be regarded with the same level of
respect. They both served Germany, but only one willingly and
unreservedly served the Nazi cause.
Gordon
Rob Arndt
But you are again linking her to her family's actions, not her
specific actions. She chose to serve the Luftwaffe regardless until
the end even though her in-laws were executed, her family was in
various concentration camps, and the children had been taken away. If
she was a true conspirator, she would have been executed or at the
very least put into a concentration camp. Hitler did not spare Rommel
and he is far greater than Melitta von Stauffenberg.
Stauffenberg shares the same devotion to the Fatherland and the
Luftwaffe as Hanna did with equal passion in terms of dedicated
service and risk-taking. Hanna only exceeds her in her determination
and belief system in the Nazi cause mixed with young, blind devotion
to Hitler.
That doesn't automatically make von Stauufenberg a saint against
Reitsch's demonized character.
Show me in solid proof that Melitta von Stauffenberg was anti-Nazi.
Where did she put her words into writing for distribution to the
German people and where are the witnesses that heard her speak ill of
Hitler while in Luftwaffe service? Where is solid proof of
collaboration with her in-laws concerning the July 20th plot? I have
her diary as a ref and her only words are of a moral dilemma. Yet her
ACTIONS speak louder than words scribbled in a diary- she CHOSE to
continue serving just like Hanna Reitsch until the end.
She didn't die in a conspiracy against Hitler, she died ferrying a
Bu-181 to a factory. She was not Claus after all.
Rob
Dan
Hanna Wretch was an unrepentant Nazi until the day she died. She even
said she wished she had become a good Nazi at the same time as Hitler.
No demonetization, her own words.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Rob Arndt
>
> - Show quoted text -
To demonetize is to divest (as in currency) ;)
Rob
Rob Arndt
Please do not take me wrong, but when you use the balance sheet to
compare both von Stauffenberg and Reitsch in terns of dedication and
service, they are fairly balanced. Hanna, of course, edges von
Stauffenberg out through natural abilities and overall experience as
test-pilot supreme. I do not think anyone who knows them both will
argue that point.
Then comes their personal belief systems and the morality involved. In
that regard, von Stauffenberg seems to hold the moral high ground. But
to her credit, Hanna's Nazi belief system also helped her overall
performance. Because she believed in Hitler and Nazism, her
determination was iron-willed and that made her a greater risk-taker
and also honed her natural abilities into great personal skill,
unrivaled by all other German female test pilots as well as many men.
Is a soldier that throws his body on a grenade, suicidal? Yes, but it
is to save lives and the ultimate military honor as a soldier- to lay
one's life down for their comrades. With Nazism mixed with Prussian
militarism, German forces fought all that harder for the Fatherland
and the death toll and destruction result on both sides is obvious
between World Wars. Even against overwhelming Allied superiority the
Heer, Waffen SS, Luftwaffe, and even Kriegsmarine (not fans of the
NSDAP) ALL fought harder for the Fatherland. They actually believed
that the Fuhrer was fighting communism and other world "infestations"
that were ruining the world and having seen first-hand how Germany was
transformed from pauper nation in 1933 to world leader by 1939 and how
good Germans lived under National Socialism... is it any wonder they
gave their lives believing the world would be better w/o communism? If
you say no, then how can you justify the US Democratic and Republican
Cold War views of communism as absolutely evil? That is exactly the
same as the Nazi view, just operating off a capitalistic society
instead of a socialist one.
Hanna and von Greim's trip to Berlin in 1945 was suicidal in nature
and in fact- but they went anyway as the Fuhrer demanded. Even though
the trip was divided and then von Greim was piloting the Storch due to
combat flying, he was hit and the plane was leaking petrol in dense
smoke and intense Russian AAA. It was like flying blind in a hellish
inferno with no runway and rubble strewn across every street. Hanna
took over for von Greim and guided the Storch to safety under
circumstances that are not ever likely to be repeated. If Melitta had
been the pilot who would have taken over, I doubt they would have
lived. It is due to Hanna's strong devotion to Hitler and the Nazis
that she did not allow for failure.
The same spirit of fighting for the Fatherland (in whatever capacity)
was also in von Stauffenberg and she died performing her duties. Hanna
lived. So we demonize the living and deify the dead whose direct
connection to the von Stauffenberg conspirators is rather flimsy
factually. We want to believe Melitta is everything Hanna was not, but
in reality they are fairly close. Melitta's only real concern
according to her diary was a "conflicting dilemma"... hardly diehard
anti-Nazi and especially negligiable in light of her returning to
Luftwaffe duties and accepting the fate of her family and in-laws. She
stood up for none of them and even accepted the humiliation of losing
her surname of von Stauffenberg in the Reich. Nevertheless, she
reported back for duty and was killed in that line.
Rob
Dan
Correct, can't slip anything past a fart smeller like you.
Dan
Make that smart feller.
Rob Arndt
Hanna Reitsch then compare Melitta to Sophie Scholl of the White Rose
Resistance and the end result. Melitta died delivering an aircraft to
a factory on a ferry run and worked for the Luftwaffe as test pilot.
Sophie Scholl was beheaded by guillotine:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERschollS.htm
Sophie WAS a Good German, Melitta a Luftwaffe test pilot who was
conflicted...
Rob
p.s. I strongly advise buying the German DVD: "Sophie Scholl-the Final
Days"
frank
> Gordon,
>
snip
Even against overwhelming Allied superiority the
> Heer, Waffen SS, Luftwaffe, and even Kriegsmarine (not fans of the
> NSDAP) ALL fought harder for the Fatherland. They actually believed
> that the Fuhrer was fighting communism and other world "infestations"
> that were ruining the world and having seen first-hand how Germany was
> transformed from pauper nation in 1933 to world leader by 1939 and how
> good Germans lived under National Socialism... is it any wonder they
> gave their lives believing the world would be better w/o communism? If
> you say no, then how can you justify the US Democratic and Republican
> Cold War views of communism as absolutely evil? That is exactly the
> same as the Nazi view, just operating off a capitalistic society
> instead of a socialist one.
>
snip
>
> Rob
Dream on. Given half the chance they surrendered to the Alllies in
droves. Especially after the Americans crossed the Rhine.
Your comparison of NSDAP to American political parties shows your
ignorance of history. The Germans knew what was going on. Especially
after the Nuremberg laws against the Jews, Kristallnacht, the eugenics
campaign (which was protested against so that it had to go
underground).
The old saw of we were good Germans who knew nothing was pretty much
put to rest by a lot of research starting in the mid 90s. Some of it
written by Germans.
Standing in a cess pool and saying its a rose garden doesn't change
the fact its a cess pool.