Which Admiral said that MacNamara didn't have a morale setting on his computers?

[Matt Wiser]

Question for the groups: Who was the Admiral that said that SecDef
Robert MacNamara didn't have a morale setting on his computers? This
is to settle a dispute over on alternatehistory.com. TIA.

[Dennis]

I'll guess it was the one who was involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis (?
Anderson) who tangled with MacNamara, though I don't know.

Dennis

[Dennis]

That would be Adm. George W. Anderson, if I'm correct.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/Bios/anderson_gw.html

Dennis

[Matt Wiser]

Too early: I'm looking for someone who would've said the remark in the
1965-67 time period. Seems one of Mac's Whiz Kids showed up on the
TF-77 flagship, to meet with the Admiral, carrier skippers, and CAGs.
The snot told the assembled officers that, based on a cost-benefit
analysis, that no CSAR missions into NVN should be mounted: it would
be far cheaper to train new aircrews than to risk aircraft, helos, and
their crews going after one or two downed pilots. The snot was
threatened by the CAGs with being thrown overboard, and ComTF-77
kicked the whiz kid off the flagship on the next COD. This was either
in 1966 or early '67: the story's been told in several books about the
Naval air war in SEA, and in at least one copy of The Hook magazine.

[Dennis]

Matt Wiser wrote:

>> >> Question for the groups: Who was the Admiral that said that SecDef
>> >> Robert MacNamara didn't have a morale setting on his computers?
>> >> This is to settle a dispute over on alternatehistory.com. TIA.
>>
>> > I'll guess it was the one who was involved in the Cuban Missile
>> > Crisis
> (?
>> > Anderson) who tangled with MacNamara, though I don't know.
>>
>> That would be Adm. George W. Anderson, if I'm correct.
>>
>> http://www.history.navy.mil/library/Bios/anderson_gw.html
>

> Too early: I'm looking for someone who would've said the remark in the
> 1965-67 time period. Seems one of Mac's Whiz Kids showed up on the
> TF-77 flagship, to meet with the Admiral, carrier skippers, and CAGs.
> The snot told the assembled officers that, based on a cost-benefit
> analysis, that no CSAR missions into NVN should be mounted: it would
> be far cheaper to train new aircrews than to risk aircraft, helos, and
> their crews going after one or two downed pilots. The snot was
> threatened by the CAGs with being thrown overboard, and ComTF-77
> kicked the whiz kid off the flagship on the next COD. This was either
> in 1966 or early '67: the story's been told in several books about the
> Naval air war in SEA, and in at least one copy of The Hook magazine.

I've heard that story myself. A websearch ought to find it, though that
might be difficult with the current black out over SOPA etc.

Dennis

[Matt Wiser]

I could have done a websearch in the time it took for you to make this
response so thanks a bunch.

*NOT*

[Dean Markley]

A reply like that will certainly decrease your future chances of
getting help!

[Richard]

Well did you conduct your search prior to asking the question or were/
are you just being a snarky snot (tm)?

[Halmyre]

A web search like this you mean? :

admiral robert macnamara "morale settings"

and lo and behole, this popped up:

http://www.historywire.com/2006/02/book_alert_warr.html

with the following quote:

'As Admiral Daniel V. Gallery observed about an earlier defense
secretary back in 1965: "I doubt if Mr. McNamara and his crew have any
morale settings on their computers."'

Five minutes I think it took me...NOT!

--
Halmyre

[a425couple]

"Richard" <the.s...@gmail.com> wrote in message...

-On Jan 18, 6:25 am, Matt Wiser <mattwiser...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2012 07:19:00 GMT, Dennis wrote:
> > Matt Wiser wrote:

- or were/are you just being a snarky snot (tm)?

Who the heck trademarked that phrase while I wasn't
watching?

I guess it's a good thing I don't actually say/write those
words very often (mostly just think them!).

I'd sure hate to violate someone's trade mark!

Seriously, you ought to tell me who, so if I ever make
the mistake of using that phrase, I know who I should send
royalty fees to.

[Ray O'Hara]

"Matt Wiser" <mattwi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jf6dn8$4jg$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

all thse planes and helos lost trying to get the downed airman have men in
them too.
it brings to mind the last action of the Somme, a british unit that had
penetrated the German lines was cut off,
after several days of trying to rescue it the High Command realized they
were losing more men each day trying to rescue it than there were to be
rescued, they called off any further attempts.
there does come a time when that is the choice, are you going to lose 10
more to rescue one.
> *NOT*

[Matt Wiser]

Why not take your entire crew and go fuck yourselves.

With a broken bottle in the ass.

*HARD*

[Matt Wiser]

> getting help!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dean, ignore the troll. Someone's spoofing the real me. I would NEVER
reply in such a manner.

[Matt Wiser]

On Jan 18, 4:37 am, Dean Markley <damark...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Matt Wiser]

> are you just being a snarky snot (tm)?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Richard: Ignore the troll who's spoofing me. Don't respond to him.

[Matt Wiser]

> *HARD*- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Kiss off, troll. Why are you spoofing me, anyway? Oh, let me guess
phony: not happy I said some things about Elon Musk over on the space
NGs, hmm? That's what this crap started.

[Richard]

On Jan 18, 10:35 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Richard" <the.sar...@gmail.com> wrote in message...

Too late; SOPA will presently shutdown all of Usenet by killing off
all of the hosting services.

[Richard]

NP. It seemed rather out of character, I'm just irritated I didn't
consider the probable troll *first*.

[Jeff Crowell]

Ray O'Hara wrote:
> all thse planes and helos lost trying to get the downed airman have men in
> them too.

Gosh! Really? We had no idea.

> ... snip ...

> they called off any further attempts.
> there does come a time when that is the choice, are you going to lose 10
> more to rescue one.

Looks like it's not only McNamara who lacks a morale setting.

It's easy to sit at your computer desk and say that, Ray.
What if you're the guy being asked to fly into heavy ground
fire, for example, to hit a "got to" target? What happens
if you're an infantryman and your buddy is hit out in the
open, and he's bleeding badly. Will you let him bleed out
or will you try your damndest to get him out of there? The
willingness of men and women to do that sort of thing
depends on their belief and faith in their brothers and
sisters in arms, IMO at least.


Your answer may be held against you.


Jeff
--
The third eye does not require corrective lenses.

[Daryl]

In SE, the AF would be willing to lose many PJs to rescue the
Aircrew. That made the AF Pilots a bit more balsy.



>> *NOT*
>
>


--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

[Matt Wiser]

> consider the probable troll *first*.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I've had problems with this idiot in the past over on
rec.aviation.military and sci.space policy. In the future, just ignore
the troll who's posting out of character.

[Gordon]

On Jan 18, 8:57 am, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Matt Wiser" <mattwiser...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

That's what separates us from most of our enemies - we value our own
men to the point that when you go into combat, you know you have a
massive organization right behind you that will do all it can to bring
you home. That allows you to go to the upper right hand corner of the
envelope with more confidence, knowing even if you screw it up,
friends are coming to help. Other nations do it differently, but to
our system's credit, we don't seem to lose wars <shrug>.

As a SAR guy, if someone told me that the four helos that went in
ahead of me had all been shot down, my first thought would be, "Hot
damn! Now WE get the rescue!"

Hard to explain rationally, I guess.

[a425couple]

"Matt Wiser" <mattw...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
-On Jan 18, 4:37 am, Dean Markley <damark...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 18, 7:25 am, Matt Wiser <mattwiser88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On 18 Jan 2012 07:19:00 GMT, Dennis wrote:
> > > Matt Wiser wrote:
> > > I've heard that story myself. A websearch ought to find it, though
> > > that
> > > might be difficult with the current black out over SOPA etc.

> > I could have done a websearch in the time it took for you to make this
> > response so thanks a bunch.

> A reply like that will certainly decrease your future chances of
> getting help!- Hide quoted text -

- Dean, ignore the troll. Someone's spoofing the real me.

- I would NEVER reply in such a manner.

Ahh, yes. "99" vice "88", gmail vice yahoo.
Shorenough!

[Ray O'Hara]

"Gordon" <Gor...@oldboldpilots.org> wrote in message
news:3c0c2ad3-1d7c-43f7...@t13g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

===================================================================

we wrote off the Philippines in WWII.
there comes a time when you are throwing away lives.
it's a brutal math. but there are times you have to make that call.

[Gordon]

On Jan 18, 3:06 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> As a SAR guy, if someone told me that the four helos that went in
>> ahead of me had all been shot down, my first thought would be, "Hot
>> damn!  Now WE get the rescue!"
>>
>> Hard to explain rationally, I guess.

plus, they *have* to be getting low on ammo by now.

> we wrote off the Philippines in WWII.
> there comes a time when you are throwing away lives.
> it's a brutal math. but there are times you have to make that call.

your example is several orders of magnitude greater than a typical
CSAR, and a general collapse of an entire army is hardly related to
recovering a pilot in extremis. Yes, I agree with you that in times
like early 1942 in the South Pacific, there was not much left that
could be done beyond scattering the entire army in the Philipines to
the hills, with the hope that more would survive than in Japanese
custody (I certainly would have broken for the hills at the first
opportunity). At the time of the US surrender, Stillwell and the
British Generals couldn't have known what level of treatment awaited
their honorably captured soldiers.

[Matt Wiser]

Dean, ignore the troll. Someone's spoofing the real me. I would NEVER

[Matt Wiser]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 04:37:06 -0800 (PST), Dean Markley wrote:

[Matt Wiser]

Ray: Ignore the troll who's spoofing. Don't respond to him.

[Matt Wiser]

Gordon: Ignore the troll who's spoofing me. Don't respond to him.

[Matt Wiser]

Halmyre: Ignore the troll who's spoofing me. Don't respond to him.
Listen to me.

[Richard]

As we've always suspected, Ray is at heart a True Blue Republican who
merely enjoys playing the devil's advocate.

;-)

[Dennis]

Halmyre wrote:

>> > I've heard that story myself.  A websearch ought to find it, though
>> > t
> hat
>> > might be difficult with the current black out over SOPA etc.
>>
>>

>> I could have done a websearch in the time it took for you to make
>> this response so thanks a bunch.
>>
>> *NOT*
>
> A web search like this you mean? :
>
> admiral robert macnamara "morale settings"
>
> and lo and behole, this popped up:
>
> http://www.historywire.com/2006/02/book_alert_warr.html
>
> with the following quote:
>
> 'As Admiral Daniel V. Gallery observed about an earlier defense
> secretary back in 1965: "I doubt if Mr. McNamara and his crew have any
> morale settings on their computers."'
>
> Five minutes I think it took me...NOT!

Shame on me, when I could have done as much. Twenty-five lashes with a wet
noodle, as Capt. Ann Landers used to say.

At least I'm a bit the Wiser. <yuck> <yuck> <yuck>

Dennis