Cooling Fan, How to make it turn on earlier.
Rich Rubel
James Ballenger (balle...@sprynet.com) wrote:
: How can I rig my 86 Ford Escort's fan to come on at a lower temperature?
: Presently I have rigged a switch to the fan that I can turn on, but I
: have to toy with it manually and usually leave it on when below 40 mph.
You should actually be able to go down to your local parts store (not sure
where you're located) and buy a lower-temp thermostat for a few bucks.
Our local Pep Boys seems to have three different temps (170, 185, and 210)
for a huge number of cars (actual degree numbers vary slightly with
model). I even managed to find one for my old Subaru that keeps the
engine a LOT cooler (temp guage only gets about 1/3 instead of 1/2, which
is fine by me as the car used to overheat with the A/C on).
--
+--------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
| Rich Rubel | Happiness is an AWD Subaru! |
| rru...@umbc.edu | Turn a SNOW problem into NO problem. |
| | http://alumni.umbc.edu/~rrubel1/outback.html |
+--------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
H. Smith Sr
during the winter months it may come on very little. Besides a lower
temperature thermostat also means less heat.
Why do you want the fan on earlier, is the car running hot?
Henry Smith
--
The Smith's Cathy & Henry
Lebanon, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
<tic...@lebmofo.com>
Jeff Thorssell
Rich Rubel wrote:
>
> James Ballenger (balle...@sprynet.com) wrote:
> : How can I rig my 86 Ford Escort's fan to come on at a lower temperature?
> : Presently I have rigged a switch to the fan that I can turn on, but I
> : have to toy with it manually and usually leave it on when below 40 mph.
>
> You should actually be able to go down to your local parts store (not sure
> where you're located) and buy a lower-temp thermostat for a few bucks.
> Our local Pep Boys seems to have three different temps (170, 185, and 210)
> for a huge number of cars (actual degree numbers vary slightly with
> model). I even managed to find one for my old Subaru that keeps the
> engine a LOT cooler (temp guage only gets about 1/3 instead of 1/2, which
> is fine by me as the car used to overheat with the A/C on).
>
> --
> +--------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
> | Rich Rubel | Happiness is an AWD Subaru! |
> | rru...@umbc.edu | Turn a SNOW problem into NO problem. |
> | | http://alumni.umbc.edu/~rrubel1/outback.html |
> +--------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
But a lower 'stat isn't going to make the fan come on earlier. Don't
know if anyone makes a lower temp fan switch that will fit.
*****************************************
Jeff Thorssell
http://204.255.212.10/~jthorsse/jr.html
http://204.255.212.10/~jthorsse/cats.html
Tareq Hoque
James Ballenger wrote:
>
> How can I rig my 86 Ford Escort's fan to come on at a lower temperature?
> Presently I have rigged a switch to the fan that I can turn on, but I
> have to toy with it manually and usually leave it on when below 40 mph.
> of 220. It is presently operated by a thermostat housing thermal
> connection which closes at 220 thus turning on the fan and opening
> between 185-193 and turning off the fan. I would like this thing to
> turn on at about 185 and turn off at about 160 or so. Is there any
> aftermarket or heat sensitve product that will do this on an Escort?
> Cost is a factor. Any Ideas?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> James Ballenger
> 86 Supafied Escort Wagon
> Bow to the Supremacy of the Escort
In my 86 Taurus the fan is controlled by the engine computer. The
simple way, but ineffecient, way to turn on the fan is to turn on the
air conditioner or defrost. The more elegant way is to put a thermistor
in parallel with the engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor (not to be
confused with the temperature sender, which only drives the terperature
gauge on the instrument panel). I used those wire taps used in car
audio installation to make a convenient tap to the ECT sensor.
Then I experimented with different termistors until I got the turn-on
point I wanted. You have to use a thermistor since a resistor with
small enough value to turn on the fan early will give poor start up
performance during cold weather, since the parallel resistance will
cause the computer to think the engine is already warmed.
=t
Robert J. Cowan
J Rich Rubel wrote:
> >
> > James Ballenger (balle...@sprynet.com) wrote:
> > : How can I rig my 86 Ford Escort's fan to come on at a lower temperature?
> > : Presently I have rigged a switch to the fan that I can turn on, but I
> > : have to toy with it manually and usually leave it on when below 40 mph.
looking for. Hayden sells and adjustable temperature sensative switch for their
electric cooling fans.
I was looking at it thinking it could be adapted to almost any electric circuit.
It wasn't that expensive, either. Only about $15 I think.
James Ballenger
How can I rig my 86 Ford Escort's fan to come on at a lower temperature?
Presently I have rigged a switch to the fan that I can turn on, but I
have to toy with it manually and usually leave it on when below 40 mph.
Rich Rubel
Jeff Thorssell (jtho...@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us) wrote:
: Rich Rubel wrote:
: >
: But a lower 'stat isn't going to make the fan come on earlier. Don't
: know if anyone makes a lower temp fan switch that will fit.
Maybe I misunderstood what he wanted, but I figured he was trying to
make his engine run cooler - changing the 'stat will do that. It should
also make the fan come on earlier, too, shouldn't it, to help cool the
engine?
Theodore A. Chen
In article <32743D...@sprynet.com>,
James Ballenger <balle...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>How can I rig my 86 Ford Escort's fan to come on at a lower temperature?
>Presently I have rigged a switch to the fan that I can turn on, but I
>have to toy with it manually and usually leave it on when below 40 mph.
>I would prefer the fan to automatically come on at 185 degrees instead
>of 220. It is presently operated by a thermostat housing thermal
>connection which closes at 220 thus turning on the fan and opening
>between 185-193 and turning off the fan. I would like this thing to
>turn on at about 185 and turn off at about 160 or so. Is there any
>aftermarket or heat sensitve product that will do this on an Escort?
>Cost is a factor. Any Ideas?
you're going to have to do a bit of research. head down to your
auto parts store and look through the Filko catalog for thermoswitches.
i'm betting your car uses the same thermoswitch that the 4-cylinder
Mustangs used, which grounds its terminal at 220 degrees (thereby
turning the fan on) and has 3/8" NPT threads.
check through the catalogs. you should be able to find a thermoswitch
with 3/8" NPT threads which turns on/off at the temperatures you're
looking for. hmm - maybe a subaru application?
the thermoswitch will run you about $10-$20.
-teddy
Nick Harris
>Maybe I misunderstood what he wanted, but I figured he was trying to
>make his engine run cooler - changing the 'stat will do that. It should
>also make the fan come on earlier, too, shouldn't it, to help cool the
>engine?
>
No! The (electric) fan only cools the water in the radiator, and is
typically controlled by the temperature of the water in the radiator. The
thermostat controls the flow of water into the radiator, and is basically
a temperature operated valve. When the engine is cold the thermostat is
closed and water just circulates around the engine. Thus the engine can
warm up quickly. When it reaches operating temperature, the thermostat
opens and allows the radiator to cool the water. If the radiator is
efficient and the car is not working too hard, then the cooling can be
more than is needed, resulting in the therostat closing, cutting off the
radiator and allowing the engine to return to optimal temperature. If you
are working the engine hard, or its a hot day, or there is not enough
airflow through the rad (in traffic for example) then the cooling
provided by the radiator is not enough and when the temperature of the
water reaches a predetermined point, the electric fan will turn on and
force extra air through the rad, thus increasing the cooling. Nothing to
do with the 'stat, as that is fully open. Having a lower temp stat will
result in your car running at a lower temperature under normal
conditions, but under these conditions the fan is never on anyway. If you
put a lower temp stat in and your fan is still needed alot under normal
conditions then either you have a faulty fan switch or the water flow
through the radiator is much reduced. Radiators do 'wear out' and end up
getting clogged, reducing their efficiency. Flushing can help but doesn't
always. Just because you can run water through the rad doesn't mean that
the rad is not clogged! If you really want to alter the temp that your
fan comes on you may need to get an aftermarket electric fan such as a
Kenlowe, some of which have adjustment knobs on them. But check the
reason that you want to alter the switch point. You may be better off
with a new rad!
Rich Rubel
Nick Harris (n...@ecs.soton.ac.uk) wrote:
: No! The (electric) fan only cools the water in the radiator, and is
: typically controlled by the temperature of the water in the radiator. The
: thermostat controls the flow of water into the radiator, and is basically
Of course you're right on that. Not sure what I was thinking when I
posted that second time... My original post still holds, though, if all he
wants to do is make his car run cooler.
: fan comes on you may need to get an aftermarket electric fan such as a
: Kenlowe, some of which have adjustment knobs on them. But check the
: reason that you want to alter the switch point. You may be better off
: with a new rad!
An equally good point. Been there, done that...twice. Plastic-cored
radiators in today's small cars seem to clog a lot more than they should.
John Kirk
I had this problem with an Astra, I bought a new switch and fitted it in the
Radiator. It worked ok for about a week.
So I then wired the original switch with a bit of extention wire
and layed it over the exhaust manifold.
While the car is moving the air circulating under the bonnet
keeps the fan switched off. If I am stuck in a traffic jam the switch is
heated by the manifold and on comes the fan.
Working ok for over a year now.
John
Reckless
Richard Pate <dic...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Something that I have not seen in this thread that should be
>mentioned is, if the car is computer controlled, you shouldnt
>mess with a lower temperature thermostat. The engine has to come
>up to a certain temp before the computer comes into play.
>Otherwise your car is running too rich.
>Dicdraw
>55 Chevrobuick Pickup
>48 Morris Minor 2 dr sedan
Very good point!
If the engine is computer controlled, reducing the thermostat temp or
messing with the engine temp sensor could really confuse the computer.
If the car runs "better" when it is cold/cooler, it may be in
"open-loop" mode where it mostly ignores the sensors, in particular
the oxygen sensor, and supplies a slightly rich mixture.
Merely running the fan continously will only force the thermostat to
cycle in order to maintain the temperature, so if it has a 220 t-stat,
even running the fan all the time won't bring the temp down.
So, what's the goal of turning the fan on earlier? Lower operating
temp? You'll need a lower temp stat and lower temp fan switch, but
you risk confusing the engine computer.
-Reckless
PS: I leave the dual 12" fans on all the time in my '63 Biscayne, and
let the 195 t-stat set the temp. I have a 120 amp alternator so the
power isn't a problem.
John Kirk
In article <556ktj$s...@news2.snfc21.pacbell.net>,
Reckless <reck...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>So, what's the goal of turning the fan on earlier? Lower operating
>temp? You'll need a lower temp stat and lower temp fan switch, but
>you risk confusing the engine computer.
>
>-Reckless
>
If his car is anything like my car he hasn't got an engine computer.
You will most likely find that his car boils over when standing ten minutes
or so in a traffic queue.
John
James Ballenger
I am extrememly grateful for all of the advice I have received. My 86
Ford Escort L Wagon runs very very hot because I am always pushing it, I
fully intend to run it into dust. It is slightly moded with all stock
pieces. Anyway I changed the 192 t-stat to a 185 t-stat a long time ago
and this is the lowest temp stat that is made for the car. I dont want
to hassle with installing new radiator. Intalling and additional fan is
and option though. The fan presently comes on at 210 degrees and turns
of between 185-193. My fan is electric so it will not reduce
performance or push the engine. My issue now is that I can get a switch
that turns the fan on at 185 degrees for $25 or one that varies between
160-210 depending upon how you set it for $40. I realize that because
the t-stat starts to flow at 185 buying a fan to come on at 185 or below
would be unnecessary, but I drive the car very very hard and it is
constantly increasing. I never worry about the engine not warming up.
So I want something that comes on as soon as possible.
My options;
Drive more conservatively- Hell no
New Radiator- Too much cash
Secondary fan, Larger fan- possible, advice?
Lower fan switch- cheap, easy, works?
Thanx
James Ballenger
86 Supafied Escort
Richard Pate
Unknown
James Ballenger <balle...@sprynet.com> wrote:
<snip>
>So I want something that comes on as soon as possible.
> My options;
>Drive more conservatively- Hell no
>New Radiator- Too much cash
>Secondary fan, Larger fan- possible, advice?
>Lower fan switch- cheap, easy, works?
>Thanx
>James Ballenger
>86 Supafied Escort
>Bow to the Supremacy of the Escort
The answer depends on a question I have:
Does your car run hot while at speed (>40mph)?
If so, I would say that the cooling fan is not the problem, but either
a clogged radiator, internal or external, or too small a radiator, ie.
not enough cooloing capacity.
If it overheats at idle or low speed, the problem is not enough
cooling fan.
I had a '77 Honda Accord with an '82 Prelude engine in it. With the
original radiator for the smaller engine, it was heating up only if
driven hard, or faster than 65 mph. The Prelude radiator fixed the
problem.
==============================================
Some like Eights,
Others settle for Six,
But I like My Four-banger,
I get plenty of power, and money in my pocket.
=================================================
Brent Moss
|> Thanx
|>
|> James Ballenger
|> 86 Supafied Escort
|> Bow to the Supremacy of the Escort
I think the fan switch is controlled by a temperature sensor that is
a thermistor (changes resitance vs temp). Most I have seen vary from
several thousand OHM's when cold to about 200 Ohms when hot. I once
adjusted my temperature gauge by wiring a resitor of about 160 Ohms
in parallel to the sensor so that it would read a little hotter since it
was not registering very much at all. (the temp sensor I had was not
very accurate, so I fianlly just replaced it with a new one and threw
the resistor idea away).
I would geuss that you could try a few different values of resistors
in parallel with the sensor and make the fan turn on sooner thinking it is
hotter than it really is sooner. My guuss would be to try about a 200 Ohm
resistor to start with, but you may find that the fan stays on much longer
than you would like.(wire the resitor from the sensor wire to ground since it
is also hooked to ground by screwing into the radiator usually).
Just an idea, which may prove to be a little less painless than remembering
to flip the switch. You could wire a toggle switch in the same wire so that
when you flipped it, the connection would go to ground (I believe); otherwise
the sensor function takes over.
--
Brent Moss
Kaysville, Utah
bm...@es.com
James Ballenger
> >So I want something that comes on as soon as possible.
> > My options;
> >Drive more conservatively- Hell no
> >New Radiator- Too much cash
> >Secondary fan, Larger fan- possible, advice?
> >Lower fan switch- cheap, easy, works?
> The answer depends on a question I have:
> Does your car run hot while at speed (>40mph)?
> If so, I would say that the cooling fan is not the problem, but either
> a clogged radiator, internal or external, or too small a radiator, ie.
> not enough cooloing capacity.
> If it overheats at idle or low speed, the problem is not enough
> cooling fan.
>
> I had a '77 Honda Accord with an '82 Prelude engine in it. With the
> original radiator for the smaller engine, it was heating up only if
> driven hard, or faster than 65 mph. The Prelude radiator fixed the
> problem.
Umm, I dont feel like rewiring the whole dang thing and then worry about
its accuracy with the resistor idea. I would just but the
aforementioned aftermarket fan sensor which changed the temp to 160-210
according to my adjustments.
As for the issue of where it heats up, it is not really relevant
because it heats up everywhere all the time. I know why and when it
heats up, its because of my driving. It can heat up from red light to
red light in traffic because I am shifting near redline. It can also
heat up at 85 because I am revving the engine high and driving the car
hard. The good thing about highway driving is that I am consistently at
the same speed, there is a constant air flow cooling the radiator, and I
can control the temp by the gear and speed I am traveling at. It will
heat up more in city driving because I am accelerating and decelerating
close to redline with little air flow through the radiator. The
radiator is not clogged. It has always run a little hot, but when I
started driving it, it became a problem because of my driving habits.
Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that I need to find a more
efficient radiator to pop in as space and money are limited this may be
difficult. I may also remove the a/c which should help because the
radiator will receive better air flow from the lack of a condensor in
from of it.
Kevin Mouton
It's been my experience that the electric cooling fan dosen't do much
after you are going 40 MPH any way. Had an old 83 mustang with the fan
inoperative and drove it to work and back that way for years. BTW I was
always running late and had to "drive hard" to get there on time. Just
couldn't sit and idle very long. I don't think having the fan turn on at
a lower temperature will do anything to keep the engine cooler. Just my
opinion.
Kev
--
***********************************************
Kevin Mouton Automotive Technology Instructor
Teche Area Technical College
New Iberia, LA
***********************************************
"If the women don't find you handsome
they should at least find you handy!"
Red Green of Possum Lodge
***********************************************
jfo...@ionet.net
James Ballenger <balle...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>pieces. Anyway I changed the 192 t-stat to a 185 t-stat a long time ago
>and this is the lowest temp stat that is made for the car.
I'm confused, is your stat unique in that it will only fit your engine
only? Gee, my ford diesel 3400 tractor had a 195f stat in it and I
went down to the auto parts house and got a 180f. They still make
160,170 don't they?
jim
Steve S.
The Escort coolant thermostat is unique. We make it only in 180° and
195° start to open temperatures. Of course, I can make one in any
temperature, for a price... :)
Steve S.
da...@cris.com
>>pieces. Anyway I changed the 192 t-stat to a 185 t-stat a long time ago
>>and this is the lowest temp stat that is made for the car.
>I'm confused, is your stat unique in that it will only fit your engine
>only? Gee, my ford diesel 3400 tractor had a 195f stat in it and I
>went down to the auto parts house and got a 180f. They still make
>160,170 don't they?
Yes, for some engines. Others have a limited choice.
Danny
da...@cris.com
Richard Pate
Computer controlled engines require specific thermostats.