How to Spot Odometer Rollbacks?
Ashuraj Sirohi
: I got a 1984 Honda Accord with 58K. I am wondering if the odometer has been
: tampered with by previous owners. Any way to detect this?
: Juan
It could very well be 158K. Look for wear and tear on gas pedal etc.
Deb Storch
odometer has either been tampered with, or the car has over 100 K on it.
Deb
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J.J. Gratelaiks
999,999 miles. So, to rollover the odometer the car would have to have at
least 1 million miles on it!
JJ
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IMHO the only GOOD rat is a DEAD rat!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Rohwer-Nutter
>
>Check the numbers on the odometer. Do they line up correctly? If not, the
>odometer has either been tampered with, or the car has over 100 K on it.
>Deb
>
Not so!
Many, many cars have odometers that are always a little off
of allignment. Audi's in particular seem to do this. Mis-allignment is
not a reliable indicator of tampering unless the numbers are so far off
to look ridiculous.
Dan.
Dan Rohwer-Nutter
>
>I got a 1984 Honda Accord with 58K. I am wondering if the odometer has been
>tampered with by previous owners. Any way to detect this?
>
>Juan
During college I spent a summer working at a used car lot. Two of the
salesmen there had done time for odometer tampering. They said that when done
by a "professional", there's absolutely no way to tell that the numbers have been
"twisted". They said they had been altering cars for ten years before they finally
got caught when an unhappy customer came back to the lot and spotted his old car
with fewer miles on it.
Ask the owner to show you some sort of recent paperwork documenting
the miles on the car. Also, check that the wax seals on the speedometer cable are
intact - some people disconnect the speedo to keep the miles from registering.
These seals can be replaced, but new seals are pretty easy to spot since they're clean
and non-brittle.
Dan.
Nicholas Ranone
only regular oil changes. I whish I could say the same about my wife's
93 Caravan. If you can't tell how many miles it has on it, it doesn't
matter. When buying used cars, you should be prepared to preform all
the required periodic maintenance/checks that could be due. ALL fluids,
brakes, tune up etc. The belts and hoses are visible so you can tell.
Engines, clutches, and trannies can go virtually forever with no major
work provided there has been routine maintenance. And that is the
key...To prove routine maintenance, one would need several successive
service slips that showed work and milage. If they don't have it,
mileage isn't the biggest concern. I new a guy who bought a truck new
and didn't check or change the oil until his engine quit. Most major
cities have diagnostic centers that will check a car thououghly for a
fixed fee. Select one that does not do repairs, that way the have
nothing to gain by lying.
Nick
Stealthy 1
[snip]
:=> It could very well be 158K. Look for wear and tear on gas pedal etc.
:=>
:=It could not be 158K miles, as the odometers on this car registers up to
:=999,999 miles. So, to rollover the odometer the car would have to have at
:=least 1 million miles on it!
Not necessarily.
One does not have to drive the car to be able to make the numbers on an
od. go up.
Just let your fingers do the walking.
Ken
C. Deforrest
Unless the scam-artist that does the rollback job is a complete idiot, no
you couldn't tell just by looking at the odo if it was rolled back.
Heard of a reversible drill? Makes it way too easy to have any mileage you
want..
But looking at the big picture, mileage alone doesn't mean as much as
you might think. I'd take a car that had 100,000 freeway miles before
one with 50,000 city ones..
cds
Daniel J. Stern
easily screw up the spiral hairpin spring that returns the speedo needle
to "0", which mucks up the calibration. Number two, and more
importantly, it takes off miles at the lightning-pace of. . .
. . .200 miles per hour. Which means you'll probably burn up your drill
motor before you take off enough miles (or add enough miles if the odo is
about to flip over) to mean anything.
SL6 Daniel
Ron Bean
>Check the numbers on the odometer. Do they line up correctly? If not, the
>odometer has either been tampered with, or the car has over 100 K on it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What happens at 100K? Hondas have 7-digit odometers (including
tenths), so they don't roll over to zero at 100K.
My '84 CRX has numbers that don't quite line up, and I'm pretty
sure it hasn't been tampered with (I bought it in '88 with 62K on it,
which sounds right). But it has over 100K on it now. I don't remember
if they lined up before or not, but I *think* they didn't. If I
remember correctly, the original poster had an '84 Accord, so I assume
he has the same odometer.
==================
madnix!zap...@nicmad.nicolet.com (Ron Bean)
uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod
Matt Lundberg
Daniel J. Stern <das...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>This is really more of a myth than a reality. Number one, it can very
>easily screw up the spiral hairpin spring that returns the speedo needle
>to "0", which mucks up the calibration. Number two, and more
>importantly, it takes off miles at the lightning-pace of. . .
>. . .200 miles per hour. Which means you'll probably burn up your drill
>motor before you take off enough miles (or add enough miles if the odo is
>about to flip over) to mean anything.
>
turn per mile odo, as is standard. So the 200 MPH is even a gross
overstatement.
But the original poster stated that you should use a reversible drill....
well, in the normal direction (clockwise from the BACK) the gears will
already be going in reverse. If you reverse the drill, you will add
miles to the odo.
But more important, most odometers won't reverse. Try it. You don't
even need to mess with the car. Find an unused road, note the odo
reading, and drive forward a ways, until you go, oh, .1 mile.
Then back up. Keep doing this until you are convinced there is a
ratchet in the gear. Every car (80 or newer only) that I've seen
has had this feature.
The "numbers lining up" has to do with old american cars. Until
thing rolled over, the numbers would line up just fine. I don't
know the mechanism used, but after rollover, they don't line up
very well any more.
--
Matthew Lundberg m...@math.wustl.edu
Washington University,
Dept. of Mathematics "You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think"
St. Louis, MO 63130 Dobbs, 1961
Daniel J. Stern
bought it in '90. To preclude any flames asking how I know, let's put it
this way. When you find brake cylinders that are a mess from sitting for
years--attached to original MoPar brake shoes with 11/61 date codes, a
starter with a 10/61 date code, a distributor cap that was only until
March 1962 production and then superseded by a different-colored one (and
the old type not sold for service), an original PCV valve, carburetor,
valve cover gasket, etc., then you know. Anyhow, the tens digit has
never lined up. I know exactly what the problem is, the little notched
retainer ring between the Tens and Hundreds roller has slipped and is now
resting against the ridge right above the odometer "window" instead of
seating in its notched bar. I should fix it, but have more important
things to do. The car is now up to 59,000 miles. I've also seen other
known-correct-mileage cars with misaligned numbers, so I do not really
believe in the veracity of this as a test for odometer tampering.
SL6 Daniel
Redmond Young
A friend of mine had a 1981 Saab 900 Turbo that had a cracked
exhaust manifold at around 60,000 miles (this was in 1984).
There was a factory warranty on it up to 50,000, so he was
over it by 10K.
He decided to "fix the clock" so he could get the manifold
replaced under warranty. He tried the reversible drill ... it
took forever. So he simply removed the speedometer from the
dash, used a needlenose plier to slightly lift up this "lock
shaft" and used an awl and spin the numbers to 45K. This
locking shaft supposedly prevented the numbers from being
freewheeling, but he was able to lift it just enough to
disengage the numbers.
He got the manifold replaced under warranty, but about a year
later, the engine caught on fire and the whole car burned up.
Red
James Carriere
> But more important, most odometers won't reverse. Try it. You don't
> even need to mess with the car. Find an unused road, note the odo
> reading, and drive forward a ways, until you go, oh, .1 mile.
> Then back up. Keep doing this until you are convinced there is a
> ratchet in the gear. Every car (80 or newer only) that I've seen
> has had this feature.
My mom's 85 Reliant would roll backwards in reverse. I took a whole
kilometer off of it one day. Her 94 Voyageur will add mileage in
reverse. I tried the same thing in it, but it's got an electronic
speedometer/odometer which doesn't care which way you're going. Of
course, one could always set up a car on blocks like the Ferrari in
Ferris Bueler's Day Off :)
-------
James Carriere SECOND! year mechanical engineering,
class of '97, Carleton University, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
jcar...@chat.carleton.ca am...@freenet.carleton.ca
Peter Nadan
: A friend of mine had a 1981 Saab 900 Turbo that had a cracked
: exhaust manifold at around 60,000 miles (this was in 1984).
: There was a factory warranty on it up to 50,000, so he was
: over it by 10K.
: He decided to "fix the clock" so he could get the manifold
: replaced under warranty. He tried the reversible drill ... it
: took forever. So he simply removed the speedometer from the
: dash, used a needlenose plier to slightly lift up this "lock
: shaft" and used an awl and spin the numbers to 45K. This
: locking shaft supposedly prevented the numbers from being
: freewheeling, but he was able to lift it just enough to
: disengage the numbers.
A friend of mine had a 1987 Saab 900s that he bought used. The original
owner had had the original odometer replaced. I believe the only way to
tell the differnce was the note from the dealer saying what the true
milage was. (Unless the actual odometer is different from the original
stock odometer.)
Todd Howes
: A friend of mine had a 1981 Saab 900 Turbo that had a cracked
: Red
I recently replaced the gauge cluster in my `82 Camaro Z28 with a more
up to date package from an `86 Camaro. The new speedometer had ~68 on it
but my car has ~139 or so. I'm not really sure, the speedometer/odometer
didn't work when I got it. so, to make it closer to what it should be, I
tried to roll the "new" odometer back to 39K so that it would match (the
new speedometer doesn't have the 100K digit) but I discovered that it
would roll back to the point where the digit had to flip back and then it
stopped. So I ended up taking it apart and pulling out the odometer part
and adjusting the digits. I guess carmakers have gotten smart to people
rolling back speedometers and are working on ways to combat it. IMHO, they
need to focus on making the speedometer last longer :)
Todd Howes
Ron Bean
>... Also, check that the wax seals on the speedometer cable are intact -
>some people disconnect the speedo to keep the miles from registering. These
>seals can be replaced, but new seals are pretty easy to spot since they're
>clean and non-brittle.
What seals are those? I've had to remove my speedometer cable
several times to get the dashboard out, and I've never seen any seals.
In fact, it has a quick-disconnect.
ga...@hls.com
> In article <josuna-19...@mac3.cra.org>,
> Juan Osuna <jos...@cra.org> wrote:
>>I got a 1984 Honda Accord with 58K. I am wondering if the odometer has been
>>tampered with by previous owners. Any way to detect this?
>>
>>Juan
> One good one to check is the brake pedal.
>
> Also, look for oil change stickers. Some people who roll back odometers
> aren't smart enough to remove these. Receipts for service that showed a
> higher mileage would be another obvious one.
>
A couple years ago I was looking for a van and found what sounded like a good
deal on one about 4 years old with about 40,000 miles. I drove about 25 miles
to check it out and was very disappointed. There was a lot of wear on it -- it
looked like someone have lived in it. The guy said he was selling it for his
father who left the country to retire. I kept wondering what the real mileage
was as I kept finding more things I didn't like until I finally figured I'd
check the driver's door for oil change stickers. I went over to the driver's
door to get a look while getting into the car again while the seller was on the
out side of the car and sure enough, in plain sight was a sticker showing a
change and around 60K miles -- and it was far from new. Giving the guy the
benefit of the doubt I figured that perhaps a new speedo was put in by his
father at over 60K miles, esp since the car looked like it had well over 100K
mi on it. Needless to say I left shortly thereafter.
Bob Lombard
>Not necessarily.
>One does not have to drive the car to be able to make the numbers on an
>od. go up.
Huh ??? Why would *anyone* increase the number of miles on the OD beyond
actual mile driven ??????
And I thought Newt said dumb things.. :-)
George Jefferson
::=999,999 miles. So, to rollover the odometer the car would have to have at
::=least 1 million miles on it!
:
:Not necessarily.
:One does not have to drive the car to be able to make the numbers on an
:od. go up.
:
:Just let your fingers do the walking.
Well, if you were thinking about turning the speedometer by
putting the cable in a drill or something..do the math..how fast
can you turn it without damage? 100mph or so..1,000,000 would
take over a year :-)
--
george
geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu
gri...@primenet.com
>From: "K. Wing Wong" <wong@caris>
>Subject: Re: How to Spot Odometer Rollbacks?
>Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:21:44 GMT
>On 24 Jan 1995, Peter Nadan wrote:
>> A friend of mine had a 1987 Saab 900s that he bought used. The original
>> owner had had the original odometer replaced. I believe the only way to
>> tell the differnce was the note from the dealer saying what the true
>> milage was. (Unless the actual odometer is different from the original
>> stock odometer.)
>>
>In Canada, by law, if the odometer on a vehicle is replaced, the
>new unit has to be set to the reading on the old unit. If this is
>not possible, then a special sticker must be affixed to the driver's
>side door, on the same panel that houses the latch, indicating
>that the original odometer has been replaced, and also what the
>reading was.
I bet they have laws against speeding too :-)
I think one of the reasons so many people are afraid to buy cars with "high"
mileage, like 70,000 miles, is that so many vehicles have had the odometers
turned back that many "70,000 mile" vehicles have more like 140,000 miles on
them. Fleets regularly drive regular cars to 150,000 plus miles without doing
major work on very many of them. There is no reliable way to tell if the
odometer has been rolled back other then oil change stickers the owner forgot
to remove and simply observing the condition of the vehile. A well cared for
car with 100,000 miles that's been garaged will still look almost new (unless
your in a rust area).
Dennis Lou
Ron Bean <zap...@madnix.uucp> wrote:
>dlro...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Dan Rohwer-Nutter) writes:
>
>>... Also, check that the wax seals on the speedometer cable are intact -
>>some people disconnect the speedo to keep the miles from registering. These
>>seals can be replaced, but new seals are pretty easy to spot since they're
>>clean and non-brittle.
>
> What seals are those? I've had to remove my speedometer cable
>several times to get the dashboard out, and I've never seen any seals.
>In fact, it has a quick-disconnect.
Ditto here on my sister's Nissan and on my former Honda. My current
Alfa Romeo uses electronic speedo/odo. Imagine that. Insert an
inline SPST switch and I can register or hide mileage at the flip of a
toggle switch.
Dennis Lou || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dl...@ucsd.edu || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou |+====================================================
dl...@ucsd.BITNET |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
Matt Rowe
came up on the odometer. The idiot who used a ballpoint pen
to poke around in the instrument cluster and roll back the
wheels was dumb enough to use the end with the ink. Oh well,
I knew what condition the car was in when I bought it, I'd
just like to know how many miles are actually on it.
-Matt '85 Shelby Charger
Danny Fitzsimon
CD> Unless the scam-artist that does the rollback job is a complete idiot,
CD> no you couldn't tell just by looking at the odo if it was rolled back.
CD>
CD> Heard of a reversible drill? Makes it way too easy to have any mileage
CD> you want..
Ha! I always get a kick out of this one. OK, hook up your reversible drill
(what, maybe 2500 rpm tops) to your speedo cable and see where that gets
you. Maybe after a couple of drills running 24 hrs/day, you might get
a couple of thousand off.
Danny
... Taglines are irrelevant. You will be assimilated into the Blue Wave.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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DATA: 216-381-3320 FAX: 216-291-2685
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Danny Fitzsimon
DS> Check the numbers on the odometer. Do they line up correctly? If
DS> not, the odometer has either been tampered with, or the car has over
DS> 100 K on it. Deb
This is one of the most reliable methods. After tampering, its real tough
to get the #s to line up, especially after a few hundred mi.
Danny
... MONEY TALKS ... but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!
C. Deforrest
Danny Fitzsimon proclaims:
> CD> Heard of a reversible drill? Makes it way too easy to have any mileage
> CD> you want..
> Ha! I always get a kick out of this one. OK, hook up your reversible drill
> (what, maybe 2500 rpm tops) to your speedo cable and see where that gets
> you. Maybe after a couple of drills running 24 hrs/day, you might get
> a couple of thousand off.
Bzzt! Wrong, try again. If you take the gauge out of the car, there's a bar
that interlocks the individual digit rollers. Lift up on a the bar, or hold
the correct pins down, depending on the odo, and get your drill going.
Takes the miles off by either .1's, 100's, 10000's...you get the idea.
But then, I suppose it's impossible, and that the replacement odo I did
this to is just a figment of my imagination..
cds
Stealthy 1
:= -=> Quoting Deb Storch to All <=-
:= DS> Check the numbers on the odometer. Do they line up correctly? If
:= DS> not, the odometer has either been tampered with, or the car has over
:= DS> 100 K on it. Deb
:= This is one of the most reliable methods. After tampering, its real tough
:= to get the #s to line up, especially after a few hundred mi.
Depends on the car.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________
|STE...@mercury.sfsu.edu| 11/16/94 @ Sears Point Raceway, Vallejo, CA
|STE...@slip.net | <TOP ELIMINATOR -- Sport Street>
|KF...@freenet.fsu.edu | 1987 Acura Legend Coupe [Lubricated by Amsoil]
|KF...@envirolink.org | 1/4 mile time: 16.384 sec.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Trap speed: 84.039 MPH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pa...@dg.uucp
Yes!! I agree with everything you said. Ever wonder why MOST of the
used cars in dealers lots have low miles on them ( Here in Mass anyways)
They couldn't sell many cars without rolling back the odometer IMHO
For this reason I stay away from dealers and try to buy private
with the owner being the original ( they wouldn't have the expertise to
rollback the odometer) or someone with a paper trail on the car.
Gordon Tedford
The van probably rolled over the 100K mark. I probably has 140K on it.
Things to check for are, Steering wheel worn completely smooth, brake pedal
well worn, drivers door hinges well worn (test this by trying to move the door
up and down from the latch side)
Now, if he was selling it for $2000 it might not be a bad deal!!!
As always, "Buyer Beware".
--
Gordon O. Tedford
Email: gted...@spd.dsccc.com | (Standard disclaimer)
George Jefferson
:IMHO mileage is not very important when buying a car anyway.
:Most important is the present mechanical condition, maintenence, and
:chronological age.
If you are talking about a fairly aged car I agree It doesn't
matter a heck of alot if the 70,000 is 'true'. If the mechanical
condition seems right thats good enough... On the other hand if
you are looking at a newish car that shows 10-20k you should be
very concerned that it isn't really 80,000 and it isn't likely that
anybody is going to tell the difference by any simple inspection.
--
george
geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu
gri...@primenet.com
>From: pa...@dg.UUCP ()
>Subject: Re: How to Spot Odometer Rollbacks?
>In article <gribble.31...@primenet.com>, gri...@primenet.com writes:
>> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.950127091805.1013A-100000@caris> "K. Wing
>Wong" <wong@caris> writes:
>>
>>
>> I bet they have laws against speeding too :-)
>>
>> I think one of the reasons so many people are afraid to buy cars with "high"
>> mileage, like 70,000 miles, is that so many vehicles have had the odometers
>> turned back that many "70,000 mile" vehicles have more like 140,000 miles on
>> t
> Yes!! I agree with everything you said. Ever wonder why MOST of the
>used cars in dealers lots have low miles on them ( Here in Mass anyways)
>They couldn't sell many cars without rolling back the odometer IMHO
>For this reason I stay away from dealers and try to buy private
>with the owner being the original ( they wouldn't have the expertise to
>rollback the odometer) or someone with a paper trail on the car.
My experiance with private owners isn't a whole lot better then dealers. One
blazer I looked at had obviously been repainted and not that good a job,
overspray everywhere. Guy claimed he was the original owner. Asked him if it
had ever been wrecked...Oh No!! Why would I ask? Well, it looks like it's
been repainted.. OH NO!! he says. Yeah right....
Or the dealer who is selling a Car I was interested in - Hood had clearly been
repainted and tires were not factory - this with 18.000 miles on the speedo.
Asked him about the repaint and why the replacement tires (which looked like
they had 5000 miles on them!!). The old shoulder shrug from him and the Col
Shultz "I know nothing, NOTHING". And they wanted absoulte top dollar for it
too!!
Then there was the salesman who said, in regard to ANY car you asked about
"Oh, I drove that one home yesterday, I drives beautifully!!" Hmm, I asked,
how do you explain the spider webs on the tires and all the dust on it??? It
hadn't been driven in at least a week or two...
I love shopping for cars!!!
Will_Mast
>Bzzt! Wrong, try again. If you take the gauge out of the car, there's a bar
>that interlocks the individual digit rollers. Lift up on a the bar, or hold
>the correct pins down, depending on the odo, and get your drill going.
>Takes the miles off by either .1's, 100's, 10000's...you get the idea.
>But then, I suppose it's impossible, and that the replacement odo I did
>this to is just a figment of my imagination..
You don't need a drill at all.
When my speedo went up, I found a junkyard replacement, and adjusted the odo
so that the mileage would be accurate. (i will wear out my car before I sell
it.)
The odo was held together with plastic rivets and could be dissasembled with
an exacto knife. The numbered disks and interlocking mechanism could be slid
apart and readjusted without too much trouble. I was thinking that this would
make a neet puzzle, like a cyllindrical rubix cube. I reassembled the plastic
rivets with a soldering iron.
All the numbers lined up and everything has worked fine for the last 50,000
miles.
The only evidence of tampering is the chewed up plastic rivets, visable only
on the inside. A pro could probably cover these.
IMHO mileage is not very important when buying a car anyway.
Most important is the present mechanical condition, maintenence, and
chronological age.
Will
Stealthy 1
:=In article <3fq0dm$a...@news.csus.edu> ste...@mercury.sfsu.edu (Stealthy 1) writes:
:=>Not necessarily.
:=>One does not have to drive the car to be able to make the numbers on an
:=>od. go up.
:= Huh ??? Why would *anyone* increase the number of miles on the OD beyond
:= actual mile driven ??????
:= And I thought Newt said dumb things.. :-)
If you had been following this thread from the beginning you would know
what I was talking about. Also, my message was a reply to someone's
post; therefore, it doesn't make much sense by itself.
I'm not gonna go into the specifics here but on some OD's you have to
spin the numbers forward to get to the number you desire.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is nothing more certain than the defeat of a person who quits, nor,
I might add, the victory of one who does not." --author unknown--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Fitzsimon
> CD> Heard of a reversible drill? Makes it way too easy to have any mileage
> CD> you want..
> Ha! I always get a kick out of this one. OK, hook up your reversible drill
> (what, maybe 2500 rpm tops) to your speedo cable and see where that gets
> you. Maybe after a couple of drills running 24 hrs/day, you might get
> a couple of thousand off.
CD> Bzzt! Wrong, try again. If you take the gauge out of the car, there's
CD> a bar that interlocks the individual digit rollers. Lift up on a the
CD> bar, or hold the correct pins down, depending on the odo, and get your
CD> drill going. Takes the miles off by either .1's, 100's, 10000's...you
CD> get the idea.
CD> But then, I suppose it's impossible, and that the replacement odo I
CD> did this to is just a figment of my imagination..
Ah Ha! Here comes the new info-"Take the gauge out of the car". I suppose
that would work if you say so. You gotta admit though that some cars are
a lot easier to do this than others. Thought you were one of those people
who keep advocating hooking up a drill to the cable at the trans connection.
Danny
Will_Mast
>From: geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu ( George Jefferson )
>Subject: Re: How to Spot Odometer
>--
>george
>geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu
Agreed, I should have stated "when buying a car driven out of warrenty."
thank you.